Chalice Reanimator

[TheG]

What's the reanimator's hate/bothering cards? Mental Misstep, Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt, Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Duress, Thoughtseize, what have in common? cc0/1, so could our answer be Chalice of the Void ?!

The List

// Lands 18
3 [U] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [R] Underground Sea
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [OD] Island (4)

// Creatures 4
1 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
1 x
1 y
1 z

// Protection - 14 - Thanks to Shroud and chalice we have to bother only of counters on our reanimation spells so unmask and force don't slows down our play and serve the cause :D Snuffout is for a damm 1/1 chumpblocking creature, only 2 'cose almost every deck runs blue (islandwalk) today [ see creature triplets on bottom ]
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [DDD] Snuff Out
4 [MM] Unmask
4 [AL] Force of Will

// Reanimation - 12 - Goryo's is for the insta-win contidion (helped by a free snuffout) Exhume is fetchable with Shallow Grave if u prefer all-in strategy
4 Goryo's Vengeance
4 [US] Exhume
4 [OD] Buried Alive

// Tutors & Cantrip - 12 - having :2: mana lands intuitions seems quite obv. in the worst case it acts like another Buried Alive (hoping to have Oona's Prowler in play). Peer and Impulse are the best cc2 cantrips, i don't insert Lim dul's vault for the double specific mana.
4 [CHK] Peer Through Depths
4 [BD] Impulse
4 [JGC] Intuition


[B]The Creature Triplet
The Quite obv. triplet is Necrotic Ooze+Triskelion+Phyrexian Devourer but, thanks to Commander's deck spoiler i would introduce to legacy

http://s3.gatheringmagic.com/images/sets/CMDR/mimeoplasm.jpg
Helped by
1 [WWK] Death's Shadow
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan

For a gorgeus 20/24 nearly unblockable/unremovable creature :D

[jlagrav]

Wow this deck looks silly fun, and I love the use of the mimeoplasm. I am going to have to try this ut when I get home.

Oh and how about using blightsteel colossus instead of inkwell. That would make a 24/24 trample infect indesdructible lol!

The only problem I see with this deck though is I don't think there arent enough discard outlets

[P-E]

blightsteel never hit the grave ^^
also strategic planning could help you

[Cire]

As i said in the spoiler thread:

Putrefax + Death's Shadow/Krosan Collusus.

[jlagrav]

blightsteel never hit the grave ^^
also strategic planning could help you

Ah crap that's right, I thought it was too obvious lol.

[TheG]

As i said in the spoiler thread:

Putrefax + Death's Shadow/Krosan Collusus.

but it havent no protection from removals! i thought also at Blighted Agent + death's shadow but always with no protection

[Cire]

but it havent no protection from removals! i thought also at Blighted Agent + death's shadow but always with no protection

Just place 1 puterfax into the deck, that way when you're racing combo you get the 18/18 haste trample infect doom machine.... when you're facing a deck that might have removal you instead get SSS for a 19/19 Shroud, trample, flying assasin...

[Lemnear]

He gets the abilities of ONE of the removed cards and the P/T of the OTHER one, not P/T and abilities of BOTH combined.

Read the card fellas ;p

[Squirrel]

By reading it, i figured out that it becomes a copy of one of the creatures with additional counters equal to the power of the other one , not P/T from one and abilities from the other ;-).

[Cire]

Here's another good combo

Empyrial Archangel + Death's Shadow

You have a 18/21 flying shroud guy... who at the same time makes you immue to damage pretty much.

So we have this as a good creature suit IMO:

Death's shadow : for +13/+13 pump
Empyrial Archangel : for ultimate saftey
Putrefax : for instawin

Anything better out there?

[jlagrav]

Here's another good combo

Empyrial Archangel + Death's Shadow

You have a 18/21 flying shroud guy... who at the same time makes you immue to damage pretty much.

So we have this as a good creature suit IMO:

Death's shadow : for +13/+13 pump
Empyrial Archangel : for ultimate saftey
Putrefax : for instawin

Anything better out there?

Really anything that reanimator would normally run, blazing archon, iona, sphinx of steel wind, ect.

[jlagrav]

I wonder, is it possible to chain the mimeoplasm? As in one of the creatures you remove for mimeoplasm is another mimeoplasm allowing you to remove another 2 creatures and get more +1/+1 counters.

[Cire]

Really anything that reanimator would normally run, blazing archon, iona, sphinx of steel wind, ect.

Angel + Death's shadow seems better than Archon or Sphinx against the decks that you would want them for...

And combo has was around Iona..while putrefax + Death's shadow wins on the spot.....

[TheG]

I wonder, is it possible to chain the mimeoplasm? As in one of the creatures you remove for mimeoplasm is another mimeoplasm allowing you to remove another 2 creatures and get more +1/+1 counters.

OMG IT WOULD BE AMAZING in a Chepalid Breakfast Or Mesmeric Orb+Grim Monolith combo deck

[Jander78]

I'm not sure I understand how this combination of cards is better than traditional Necrotic Ooze combo. Using the attack phase opens you up to a slew of removal and hate to work around that Necrotic Ooze would not have to worry about.

[Darth Nihilus]

but it havent no protection from removals! i thought also at Blighted Agent + death's shadow but always with no protection


As i said gaea´s revenge+deaths shadow hasty shroud dude with 20/20 body=broken in legacy


other creatures that i would recommend in combination with deaths shadow(besides archangel and putrefax):

angel of despair - breaks down ensnaring bridge/peacekeeper or blockers
hellkite overlord- hasty 21/21 that reads as unblockable for me
phyrexian crusader- blanks StP and gets hasty if u use goroys vengeance

[Darth Nihilus]

He gets the abilities of ONE of the removed cards and the P/T of the OTHER one, not P/T and abilities of BOTH combined.

Read the card fellas ;p

wrong

He gets a copy of one creature that is true, but he gets the P/T of the other in form of ADDITIONAL +1/+1 counters.

the card says copy and a copy also copys P/T or otherwise clone would be pretty bad

[TheG]

Empyrial Archangel + Death's Shadow
You have a 18/21 flying shroud guy... who at the same time makes you immue to damage pretty much.
Very good solution for conservative play re-animating with Exhume! Archangel is going to find a spot into the deck.
What about insta-win? Putrefax seems the best option (hasty,trample,infect) but isn't protected, as Hellkite Overlord.

As i said gaea´s revenge+deaths shadow hasty shroud dude with 20/20 body=broken in legacy
good but not evasive (can be chumpbloked), like Phyrexian Crusader.

I chose Inkwell cose fits all our requirements 1.evasive 2.shrouded, and Haste comes from Goryo's/Shallow Grave and can be a insta-win with his 20/24.

However, what do you think about the reanimator shell with chalice of the void and cc2 based spells? i was playtesting and seems a little bit slow.

P.s Diabolic Edict owns the deck..

[slaughtercult]

A suggestion was made in the breakfast thread to use murderous redcap and lord of extinction. As it comes into play it kills your opponent. No need for an attack phase then.

[TheG]

we can't use Lord of extinction due to the low number of card in graveyard :S however is possible to set up a chain reanimation as said by
I wonder, is it possible to chain the mimeoplasm? As in one of the creatures you remove for mimeoplasm is another mimeoplasm allowing you to remove another 2 creatures and get more +1/+1 counters.like this:
Starting with 3 Mimeoplasm+ 2 Death's shadow+ 1 Murderous Redcap into the trash, reanimate a mimeoplasm exiling another mimeoplasm and a shadow (+13 +1/+1), the second mimeoplasm exiles another shadow (+13 +1/+1) and the muderous redcap.. for 26 direct non-combat non-Pithingneedle/revocable damage... however stiffle/trikbind owns the combo

[Cenarius]

The deck should play Mox Diamond. This means that there's a higher chance that Chalice of the Void can be played at turn 1. It also means that there's a possibility of playing Buried Alive/Intuition on turn 1.

I don't think the deck will be nearly as good as a normal Reanimator-deck. But it's always good to look at other ideas.

[Hunding Gjornersen]

Krosan Cloudscraper may be better than Death's Shadow for most purposes. It depends on whether three colorless mana is more or less costly than being at less than 10 life.

[Gollus]

Put if you have Death's Shadow in your hand you can cast him, to get him into the grave!

[Barook]

Is there any convenient way to give one additional power to your reanimated creature? Because Murderous Redcap + Phyrexian Hydra lacks exactly one power for the instant kill. :rolleyes:

[Karhumies]

Concerning Chalice of the Void:

1) Hate against reanimator gets sideboarded in after G1. Therefore, MD Chalice is not a solution to SB hate.

2) Supposing that you won G1, the opponent gets to start G2 on the play. Land, hate, go = your T1 Chalice is useless.

3) Because hate comes in from SB, you will not know what number to set Chalice into (Relic vs Tormod, for example) in G2 because you have not seen the hate in G1.

4) Chalice completely misses Leyline of the Void and Knight of the Reliquary -> Bojuka Bog. Especially Bojuka Bog is usually MD in any deck packing KotR (at least in my meta). Slowing down the Reanimator shell so that opposing KotR gets active before first reanimation attempt highlights this problem compared to traditional Reanimator shell. By a lot.

5) Including MD Chalice makes a Reanimator shell slower than usual. If you do not draw the Chalice into opening hand to disrupt the opponent and thus compensate for your own slowness, this will translate into losing some G1s you would have won with a more traditional list.


I am not saying that either Mimeoplasm animator, or MD Chalice would be an impossible call as such. I am saying that MD Chalice is in the list for the wrong explicitly stated reasons. And that you need a better reason to justify making the MD turn over backwards in order to run Chalice over Mental Misstep + Brainstorm and Unmask over Thoughtseize than what you have so far explicitly stated in this thread.

Nullifying opponent's T1 play is a good thing. But with Mental Misstep you can do that on the draw as well.

Here are some actually valid reasons to justify playing MD Chalice:
- meta full of cc1 Storm combo
- meta full of Zoo-like decks with curve heavy @ cc1
- not willing to dedicate enough slots to play a CounterTop deck, even when the metagame would possibly favor this strategy
- running Wasteland and/or Sinkhole yourself to slow down the opposition by limiting their play strategy (Chalice @ 1 and kill their lands to prevent them from topping the curve)
- running Tezzeret yourself to animate the Chalice and beat face fast
- turning opposing Mental Missteps into dead cards / strictly FoW fodder


Also, BU Ooze combo can pull off a combo win off of Buried Alive + Reanimate (4 mana) or Exhume/Shallow Grave/Animate Dead (5 mana) without the need to go into combat. As long as you are tutoring up those same cards with card disadvantage but going into combat AND using more mana to combo off, you are effectively playing a strictly worse deck.


Here are some options on how to improve Mimeoplasm Animator over Ooze combo:
a) Remove MD Chalice and input some regular Reanimator cards. Therefore, the strategy is any fatty fast (T2 animation at the latest) or big fatty for one-turner if it's T3+. Ooze combo is completely reliant on resolving Buried Alive; if you can get around this limitation, you are not strictly worse. Mimeoplasm creatures are not completely useless by themselves, which gives you a 3 MD slot head start. Compare the usefulness of Inkwell Leviathan vs Phyrexian Devourer to see what I mean.

b) Fit in more MD cards for slowing down the opponent than you currently have to more consistently delay the game until you win on the spot (your fundamental turn is maybe around T4.5 with the current build I guess; Ooze is T3.5). This is significant, because both you and Ooze are quite literally goldfish for the opponent until the combo turn. Example card: Energy Field.

c) Better Sideboard strategy than Ooze's transformation into Emrakul-Show and Tell; or better anti-hate SB cards than what Ooze currently uses

I think option a) seems to be the most promising at the moment. It has the added benefit of increasing tolerance against KotR-> Bojuka Bog/Karakas (pretty much the only popular MD grave hate strategy) by increasing the speed of the deck.