UW Ancestral Stoneforge

[yutang]

After hearing about the recent hype over Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull in a UW Landstill shell, I had to try it out.

The List:

Manabase:
7 Island
2 Plains
1 Kor Haven
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn

Stoneforge Package:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Removal/Anti-aggro stabilisation
2 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Oblivion Ring

Blue Core
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
4 Counterspell

Draw
4 Ancestral Visions

Wincons
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
1 Pithing Needle
3 Peacekeeper
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Aura of Silence
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Rule of Law
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Ethersworn Canonist

Maindeck

Initially, I drew upon Hanni's stock Countertop Walker list as inspiration:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20529-PRIMER-U-W-x-Countertop-Superfriends

I loved the incredibly stable manabase, the anti-aggro package (2x PtE, 4xSwords, 3x Shackles) and the control package. It was working well for me in testing but I was sceptical of the Countertop package in the current meta and the lack of Misstep.

I made some changes to parts of the deck I didn't like. Took out the Countertop package and added the Stoneforge components. I chose Batterskull because Living Weapon is card advantage, and Vigilance/Lifelink helps stabilisation. Sword of Feast and Famine was the next pick in a control deck because untapping with my lands opens up mana for counterspells or casting Jace. The discard is great too.

-4 Sensei's Divining Top
-4 Counterbalance

+4 Stoneforge Mystic (for fetching equipment)
+1 Batterskull
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+4 Mental Misstep (anti swords, anti vial, it is awesome)

Then I realised the loss of Countertop seriously devalued Predict. I needed another draw engine. Splashing Black for Confidant was a consideration but I wanted a stable manabase. So I came up with Ancestral Visions. Why Ancestral Visions? Although it is incredibly slow, I have the tools required to stabilise in the early game (see Hanni's thread which runs almost the same stabilisation plan as me). It may be a dead draw in the late game, but so is Mental Misstep - which is widely played and can be brainstormed, FoW-ed away. Also, if I'm in the late game, I'm probably winning :)

-3 Predict
+4 Ancestral Vision

So far, I'm up 3 slots. I wondered about what I should cut. I cut one Elspeth as I had a win-con through the Stoneforges and I cut a Shackles as my equipment package assisted in dealing with aggro. Another O-ring was cut as well.

Sideboard
I run an Enlightened Tutor package in my SB.

Merfolk: Peacekeeper, Pithing Needle (targeting Vial, Muta, Coralhelm), Shackles, Ghostly Prison are all relevant
I can see why this deck is a bad MU because I run blue

Storm/High Tide: Ethersworn Canonist, Rule of Law, Aura of Silence (ANT and TES)
Arguably a worse MU due to lack of Countertop. As such, I added Rule of Law in the Enlightened Tutor package.

MUD/Enchantress: Aura of Silence, Rule of Law (Enchantress), Pithing Needle (MUD)

Goblins: Ghostly Prison (not Propaganda to avoid Red Elemental Blasts), Pithing Needle, Batterskull

Countertop/Other Landstill control: Batterskull is great in control mirrors. Pithing Needle on Mishras for Landstill helps too. Aura of Silence for Countertop

Team America: Maindeck Sword of Feast and Famine helps. Not sure what else to board

Death and Taxes: Not sure too

What do you guys think? Are there any problems or improvements I could make to the deck?

[nayon]

Not enough islands to make shackles good. I'd cut them for more Jace. Also Body and Mind instead of Feast and Famine, because it gives you protection from Jace, Merfolk, Tarmogoyf, KotR.

Finally, I'd like to run Spell Snares. Maybe move the paths to the board to play 2x Spell Snare?

[obituary 95]

why are you not running mishras factorys ?

[Catitas]

hi guys here's my list:

2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic

3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Ancestral Visions

4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

1 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

Feel free to comment

[Griselpuff]

Somebody had the same idea and got Top 8 or Top 16 of SCG Open in Indianapolis I believe

[Squirrel]

4 Thopter Foundry and 1 Sword of the Meek (tutorable with Stoneforge) are funny as hell in this Deck.

Also you may think about Mirran Crusader, they are good against Team America and incredible with Equipments.

[DragoFireheart]

Run the Landstill package (manlands, Standstil), take out the double white spells, opt for a more islands, add in another jace or two.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I don't see the point of running Sword of Feast and Famine, frankly. I would much rather run a second Batterskull in such a list so that your deck doesn't suddenly suck when your opponent drops a Pridemage or Vindicate in the midgame.

So okay, you're playing keeper. You're not going to fuck up your manabase and fit in Standstills because obviously that has terrible synergy with Visions, you don't need that much draw and you want to be able to just drop bomby spells instead.

I would still add 1-2 Decree of Justice to help fight the Landstill mirror, and because you want a kill condition that's both good and isn't Batterskull. Also gives you an out to Moat.

22 lands seems light.

My inclination is to cut a Cspell, a PtE and a Misstep, as well as the O-ring and Elspeth for 2 DoJ, 1 Academy Ruins, and 2 Nevinyrral's Disk as a starting point for future testing, and swapping out the SoFF for the second Batterskull as previously mentioned.

[DragoFireheart]

You're not going to fuck up your manabase and fit in Standstills because obviously that has terrible synergy with Visions, you don't need that much draw and you want to be able to just drop bomby spells instead.


You replace the Visions with the Standstills.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

You replace the Visions with the Standstills.

Right. Your suggestion is clearly that he just play Turtenwald's list. However, that does not seem to be the purpose of this thread. If you asked what advantages this list has over that list, this would be a legitimate concern. Simply saying to go play another deck is not helpful, however.

[DragoFireheart]

Right. Your suggestion is clearly that he just play Turtenwald's list. However, that does not seem to be the purpose of this thread. If you asked what advantages this list has over that list, this would be a legitimate concern. Simply saying to go play another deck is not helpful, however.

Alright, then I will ask.

What advantages does Ancestral Stoneforge have over U/W Landstill lists with Stoneforge?

[Qweerios]

I completely agree with Drago. What is the point of using Ancestral recall when you could use Standstill with SFM, Batterskull, Shackles, and Manlands? Standstill looks too good to pass up.

... I can't believe UW control is gona start ruining my day again...

[Lemnear]

What real advantage does Visions have over Squadron Hawk (get over your hate for Standard at this point) especially with 4 Brainstorm and 4 Jace in the deck to use them multiple times? Visions does not perm. chumpblock Goofy's till you land Jace or Stoneforge. Hawk does neither take 4 turns to actually do something and is an evasive Equipment carrier

[Koby]

What real advantage does Visions have over Squadron Hawk (get over your hate for Standard at this point) especially with 4 Brainstorm and 4 Jace in the deck to use them multiple times? Visions does not perm. chumpblock Goofy's till you land Jace or Stoneforge. Hawk does neither take 4 turns to actually do something and is an evasive Equipment carrier

Deck needs more Mana Leak and Preordain too, while we're at it.

All jest aside, a Humility for this deck looks as a mightily attractive way to make creatures irrelevant once the equipment becomes active. It would allow Elspeth to win/hold the fort too. The list in the OP looks like it lacks a bit of a "punch-through" factor, and in the past such lists ran a splash to address the slowness of the 4 mana win-cons. I suspect E-Tutor/Thotper Foundry engine would work well in this shell. Even the 2 Cliques looks more impressive than the first list.

[bruizar]

Don't listen to these people. The Thopter Foundry route sucks balls too hard.

[bruizar]

What real advantage does Visions have over Squadron Hawk (get over your hate for Standard at this point) especially with 4 Brainstorm and 4 Jace in the deck to use them multiple times? Visions does not perm. chumpblock Goofy's till you land Jace or Stoneforge. Hawk does neither take 4 turns to actually do something and is an evasive Equipment carrier

I'm testing it with Grafted Wargear atm.

Grafted Wargear lets me equip hawks for 0 mana (4/3 flying for 2 mana), and doesn't cost me an equip cost every time my creature gets hit by removal. Hawks become 4/3 flying ancestral recalls that replace themselves for 2 mana, without the inherent tempo loss of plow in response to equip. Also, Grafted Wargear makes Batterskull swing for 7/6 lifelink vigilance, making it actually survive huge knights and goyfs, again without the need to put in any additional mana beyond the SFM activation.

My package:
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
1 Grafted Wargear

[John Cox]

You could probably drop the SoBM for Umezawa's jitte if your finding Grafted Wargear that great, Jitte is way better than SoBM in the aggro match and it sounds like Grafted Wargear is doing what you want SoBM to do anyways.