Illusions - THE next big legacy tribal deck! You heard it here first...

[optml]

Hey guys;

I assume most of you have seen the release of the M12 cards? (If not, take a gander here before reading on http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/magic2012/cig#)

The card that has tickled my fancy is a 2cc blue card called "Lord of Unreal". It is the illusions equivalent to Lord of Atlantis that is a cornerstone of the merfolk deck.

My thoughts are to take the highly successful, and consistently high performing shell of merfolk, and insert swanky illusions. Without further ado, let me demonstrate the decklist, then discuss after:
Creatures
4x Lord of Unreal
4x Phantasmal Bear*
4x Krovikan mist
4x Fathom Seer
4x Aether Figment

Non-Creature Spells
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
4x Daze
4x Standstill
4x Aether Vial

Lands
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
12x Island


*Another M12 card. Is a 2/2 1cc illusion that sacrifices if it is targeted. It is worth noting that most of the cards that target that spring to mind, kill a 2/2 anyway regardless of being sacrificed e.g. Swords to Plowshares, lightning bolt, vindicate.

I think it's got potential; it's quick, similar mana-costs to merfolk, interesting abilities and disruption that comes in the form of the Merfolk deck-list shell.

I am aware that Mutavault is reduced because it does not gain island walk when lord of unreal is out instead of atlantis, but it does get 'hexproofness' (It's a word!).

Alternative illusions I considered, and potentially still considering are:
Cloudskate
Somnophore
Errant Ephemeron

Thoughts Legacy community?

[five]

I am aware that Mutavault is reduced because it does not gain island walk when lord of unreal is out instead of atlantis, but it does get 'hexproofness' (It's a word!).

Yeah, suck it Wasteland!

Better hope they give you some more illusions in M12 because all those dudes are crap. Well, Fathom Seer is prett sweet...with Weathered Wayfarer :D

You are also about 10 lords shy of being Merfolk.

[optml]

I don't understand the "10 lords shy" comment. Do you mean the coralhelm and rejeerey that act as lords?

My thoughts are that the Fathom seer's are awesome (gush is banned for a reason!) but I am a aware that the others are not as strong. A 2/2 for 1cc is amazing in blue (the bear).

A 'nuts' draw could involve:
T1: Vial
T2: Lord of unreal, vial in Bear, with disruption (MM and FoW). Bear gains hexproofness and is a 3/3.
T3: vial in Krovikan Mist, hard-cast fathom seer, draw 2 cards from him, and realise that you have a 2/4, a 3/3, a 2/2 and a 5/5 flyer! {and then laugh at how awesome your deck is!}

Clearly the deck would need refining but I like it.

Perhaps throw in a set of winter orbs? 'Free' counterspells, Vials and fathom seers to bounce lands, could make it a real problem for opponents with minimal disruption to our swanky Illusions deck.

[Tiago_B.]

No Vial? I like Somnophore, but it might be too mana intensive. How about:

MIRROR ENTITY? Hexproff? Sweet. Might be worth splashing white.

[bloodbrother]

Halcyon Glaze is an illusion with protection from sorcery speed creature removal.

[TheGodOfHouse]

If this thread was meant seriously (which I kind of doubt...), you should really consider Mirror Entity as it also gives instant shroud to your Lord of Unreal which I find pretty neat.

Edit: Oops, someone was faster...

[Darth Nihilus]

ehm illsuions got another lord, its called Grand Architect...if you are realy desperate for lords that is

[Cenarius]

This deck can only be playable if another lord shows up (in the form of Coralhelm Commander). Grand Architect doesn't work well with Krovikan Mist.

[lorddotm]

You know Lord of the Unreal isn't an Illusion right? So having two in play doesn't solve the fact that they both are going to die so unbelievably fast it is Unreal.

[Mr. Safety]

You know Lord of the Unreal isn't an Illusion right? So having two in play doesn't solve the fact that they both are going to die so unbelievably fast it is Unreal.

Runed Stalactite, baby! lol, I jest...

[HPB_Eggo]

I'm going to echo some earlier comments: if you're going to try and play this, you do absolutely need Mirror Entity. Being able to pay one mana to protect your Lord of the Unreal is the only way it's going to be safe.

With Aether Vial you can feign weakness and gain a bit of an advantage, as well.

[trivial_matters]

I'm going to echo some earlier comments: if you're going to try and play this, you do absolutely need Mirror Entity. Being able to pay one mana to protect your Lord of the Unreal is the only way it's going to be safe.
Actually, you can pay nothing and still protect him. He gives himself +1/+1 when you activate Mirror Entity's ability.

[Tacosnape]

My gut feeling is that there's just not enough power guys to make this deck a huge contender yet. There's one lord. One. And while the guys all evade, they don't disrupt or draw.

That said, I can't help but want to put some kind of Ertai's Familiar/Narcomoeba combo in here, just for the hilarity.

[tsabo_tavoc]

Actually, you can pay nothing and still protect him. He gives himself +1/+1 when you activate Mirror Entity's ability.

It does not work. All other creatures are 0/0s.

[Tacosnape]

It does not work. All other creatures are 0/0s.

Yes it does. You activate Mirror Entity for 0. Upon resolution of this ability, all creatures you control are now 0/0 Illusions and all Illusions you control, including Lord of the Unreal, get +1/+1. At no point will anything you have in play be 0/0 here. So essentially you can at any time make them all 1/1 Hexproof.

[optml]

Well, this thread started a little jokingly, but it has progressed nicely.

I do think that the Mirror Entity is a stroke of genius, so whomever thought of it (I think a few of you did), Kudos! I think he does bring the deck from a bit silly, to a bit awesome.

With that in mind, I would remove -4 Bear, +4 Entity.

Adjust the lands, and BAM! Swanky, tournament ready deck (ish)...

Any additional suggestions for improving?

My thoughts on why merfolk are so powerful is their reliability, their disruption, and their immunity to disruption (destroy a merfolk, another comes in. If you have plenty of counterspells, they just vial it in etc.). Islandwalk works pretty well against blue decks too.

This illusions deck has:

- The same disruption shell as merfolk (because I swiped the decklist)
- An identical creature count, with similar converted mana cost. The card drawing for merfolk is quicker but less efficient. fathom seer's 2 cards vs. silvergill adept's 1 card on the second turn.
- Hexproof is, in my opinion, better than islandwalk, especially coupled with the fact that most illusions here have evasion (flying or unblockable).

By the way, thinking about Mirror entity and how awesome that alien-like creature is, imagine the following scenario.

Tapped out, Lord of unreal and a few illusions. Vial on 3 counters (untapped). Opponent StP your lord, response bring in Mirror Entity, activate for 0 so their swords to plowshares fizzles. Interestingly, if their knowledge of the stack is limited, and they try and cast another removal, you can respond with another 0 cost activation of him! Nice...

Would be good to hear any games with this deck. Unfortunately, I'm travelling for the foreseeable so I can't test.

Anyways, happy brewing Legacy Community.

[Zilla]

The list in the opening post is 4 cards short and missing Aether Vial. Probably worth an edit. :wink:

[optml]

The list in the opening post is 4 cards short and missing Aether Vial. Probably worth an edit. :wink:

Thanks man! I didn't even notice. I wondered why Tiago_B (above) said no vial.

I've edited, so we're good to go!

[troopatroop]

4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Lord of Unreal
4 Krovikan Mist
4 Mirror Entity
2 Illusionary Servant

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Mental Misstep
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares

4 Wasteland
4 Tundra
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
6 Island


That'd be my take. Aether Figment and Fathom Seer are a joke, not good enough. You want your guys to have decent P/T. The deck does yearn for another lord, and to not have to play Illusionary Servant. Perhaps something better will come along. Pitching to FoW is the best thing going for illusions.

[evanmartyr]

This is like Slivers, but bad, since your Muscle Slivers don't pump each other, and you have to jump through all these hoops with changing creature types and whatever.

Just play Slivers. Or, wait until they print another lord, and 2 more functional reprints of Krovikan Mists. Then you'd have an upgrade to Merfolk.

[Darkenslight]

I don't see any Imaginary Pets. Is that because they're in my head?

Also, Veiling Oddity seems like a really strong guy for alpha-strikes.

[neoryujin]

I would wait until Innistrad is released. (Wizard reprinted Lord of Atlantis in Time Spiral, then Lorwynn Merfolks came shortly afterwards. Similar case with Vampire Nocturnus in M10, then the Zendikar Vamps entered the fray. So Innistrad could pack some competitive Illusions after Lord of Unreal in M12, if I'm not mistaken)

[Neil]

what about phantasmal image

[MirrorMask]

Hey guys! how about Adaptive Automaton ?? Does it fit?:eyebrow:

[optml]

Well, the list I've been playing at the moment, and has been posting surprising results, is:

// Lands
4 [JGC] Flooded Strand
4 [A] Tundra
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MOR] Mutavault
3 [ZEN] Island (3)

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Mirror Entity
4 [CS] Krovikan Mist
4 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [M12] Adaptive Automaton
4 [M12] Lord of the Unreal
4 [M12] Phantasmal Bear
1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

// Spells
1 [OD] Standstill
3 [DD2] Daze
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [NPH] Mental Misstep
3 [AL] Force of Will
2 [CMD] Path to Exile

Phantasml Image is just plain awesome when you have lord out. (hex-proof clone for 1U). Feel free to modify guys, but I'm pretty happy with it now.

[Tru3z3rox]

So....How is this any better than counterslivers? At least their lord gives himself shroud and they all get evasion in the form of flying. They have 12 two mana lords (including phantasmal image). They have access to the same removal and the same control. They have more access to artifact/enchantment removal as well.

Hmm..no offense but it just seems better. Why play this over that?

[Nerrzull]

I also think this deck has potential.

A lot of it!

Just misses some important things ... i don't know what but consistency is under 80 % witch for todays T 1.5 is not good enough.

I tried before to make illusion deck for fun, so i had good idea how to start. Basically i joint land base from earlier Fish + standstill and counters with the Illusions i already had + now added M12 Lord, Phantasmal Image and Phamtasmal Bear. That created really aggressive and fast deck. But shows some inconsistency because of the splashed white, so its on the level of the early fish with splashed white.

Conclusion: Needs blue Mirror Entity (+ in the best of the circumstance with the "Hexproof"

This is my deck list!


Lord of the Mists
Nerrzull
Legacy

Main Deck:
3 Aether Figment
2 Fathom Seer
4 Krovikan Mist
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Mirror Entity
3 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image

4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
4 Standstill

4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Cryptic Command
4 Daze
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Phantom Warrior
4 Swords to Plowshares

I'm testing it heavily last few weeks.

Will keep u posted!

[orcanmail]

OK, so joining your already existing thread


i see you have gone for aether vials and standstills over brainstorms and ponders. So how do you card draw? the brainstorm / ponder with illusions and counters was one of the 3 central strands to my idea for an illusion deck.
Phantasmal immage is a must have.

Also veiled sentry and spell pierce have not been mentioned by anyone here yet. do they deserve to be incorporated?
Shame about phantasmal dragon, but probably too slow. Nice art work if nothing else.

What about sideboard thoughts? My idea was blasts, graveyard hate, wipe aways as they have split second, and catch it all pithing needles.

[Mystical_Jackass]

If you're gonna splash white, you could play Mother of Runes to protect the creatures that matter and chump.

[Nerrzull]

Mother is not illusion. And champ protects it self by mirror entity. Or u just copy it with phantasmal image. And je protects himself. :))

[Darth Nihilus]

If you're gonna splash white, you could play Mother of Runes to protect the creatures that matter and chump.

uhm yeah, mother of runes real good protection for illusions :x

hope you are trolling

[DragoFireheart]

There are so many issues with this deck concept I don't know where to begin, but to summarize my thoughts: Illusions suck ass.

This concept can work in the future, but for now we need more high-quality illusions first.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Mother is not illusion. And champ protects it self by mirror entity. Or u just copy it with phantasmal image. And je protects himself. :))

Turn 1: Mother of Ruins
Turn 2: Lord of the Unreal *Daze FoW* etc
Turn 3: Amoeboid Changeling

BAM, I just broke the deck. You can thank me later. The Lord protects the Changeling; MOM protects the Lord; the Changeling in turn protects MOM.

Then you win.

[Nerrzull]

Turn 1: Mother of Ruins
Turn 2: Lord of the Unreal *Daze FoW* etc
Turn 3: Amoeboid Changeling

BAM, I just broke the deck. You can thank me later. The Lord protects the Changeling; MOM protects the Lord; the Changeling in turn protects MOM.

Then you win.

Man ... Mirror image is protection card + Win condition!


There are so many issues with this deck concept I don't know where to begin, but to summarize my thoughts: Illusions suck ass.

This concept can work in the future, but for now we need more high-quality illusions first.
LOL ... man try playing deck! Then judge!

New playlist:

Lord of the Mists
Nerrzull
Legacy

Main Deck:

3 Aether Figment
2 Fathom Seer
4 Krovikan Mist
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Mirror Entity
3 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image

4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill

4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Cryptic Command
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

Great deck!
Try it!

[optml]

I like how this / these thread(s) have progressed.

I would definitely take out Aether Figment though! Very slow and pricy to kick, and mediocre unkicked.
I would have :

-3 Aether Figment

+1 Phantasmal Bear
+2 Kira, Glass Spinner

Bear is just so awesome, that I wouldn't consider playing less than 4.

[Jwilliams]

Man ... Mirror image is protection card + Win condition!


LOL ... man try playing deck! Then judge!

New playlist:

Lord of the Mists
Nerrzull
Legacy

Main Deck:

3 Aether Figment
2 Fathom Seer
4 Krovikan Mist
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Mirror Entity
3 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image

4 AEther Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill

4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Cryptic Command
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares

Great deck!
Try it!

I built one a little white ago this is what I came up with, also its mono blue but to add white just seems nuts.

Creature
2 Adaptive Automaton
3 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
4 krovikan Mist
4 Lord of the Unreal
4 Phantasmal Bear
4 Phantasmal Image

Enchantments
2 Followed Footsteps
4 Veiled Sentry

Lands
4 Mutavault
14 Island

Instants/Sorceries
4 Runesnag
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Mana Leak

I havent Developed a sideboard for it yet but for mono blue thats what I came up with.

[Mr. Safety]

Well, the list I've been playing at the moment, and has been posting surprising results, is:

// Lands
4 [JGC] Flooded Strand
4 [A] Tundra
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [MOR] Mutavault
3 [ZEN] Island (3)

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Mirror Entity
4 [CS] Krovikan Mist
4 [M12] Phantasmal Image
4 [M12] Adaptive Automaton
4 [M12] Lord of the Unreal
4 [M12] Phantasmal Bear
1 [BOK] Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

// Spells
1 [OD] Standstill
3 [DD2] Daze
4 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [NPH] Mental Misstep
3 [AL] Force of Will
2 [CMD] Path to Exile

Phantasml Image is just plain awesome when you have lord out. (hex-proof clone for 1U). Feel free to modify guys, but I'm pretty happy with it now.

Curious why you would pick Path over Swords to Plowshares...any specific reasoning?

[DragoFireheart]

LOL ... man try playing deck! Then judge!



I have little interest in playing this deck. Test the deck against tier 1 decks like Reanimator, Team America, Blade Control, Merfolk and then decide if it is worth using.

[Nerrzull]

I have little interest in playing this deck. Test the deck against tier 1 decks like Reanimator, Team America, Blade Control, Merfolk and then decide if it is worth using.



Seems u did neither!

[Nerrzull]

Curious why you would pick Path over Swords to Plowshares...any specific reasoning?

I think its even better reasoning than my swords.

U kill opponent faster. And basic land deck search is not big of the deal.

[DragoFireheart]

Seems u did neither!

And I never claimed to do either. What exactly is your point? That any criticism I have is invalid because I didn't play the deck myself? Something else?

[Nerrzull]

And I never claimed to do either. What exactly is your point? That any criticism I have is invalid because I didn't play the deck myself? Something else?

Excuse my expression!

But WTH are u doing in this thread then? If u can't/won't upgrade idea, haven't played deck and don't have feedback, did not think about deck in any good way and don't like it! Then, by all means, explain to me WTH are u doing in this thread?

I don't understand.

[DragoFireheart]

Excuse my expression!

But WTH are u doing in this thread then? If u can't/won't upgrade idea, haven't played deck and don't have feedback, did not think about deck in any good way and don't like it! Then, by all means, explain to me WTH are u doing in this thread?

I don't understand.

-Questioning the validity of this deck. Have you tested it against other tier 1 decks? What are its' weaknesses? Strengths? Which decks does it do well against? Which decks does it do badly against? Have you brought it to any tournaments? If so, what was the size of the tournament? What place did you get with the deck?

[Dark Ritual]

...I doubt illusions will ever do anything in legacy because it's just worse than merfolk. And illusions dies to grim lavamancer even harder than merfolk does because lavamancer can kill literally any illusions you cast or any lord of the unreal.

Play swords over path. One is card disadvantage the other is just them gaining some life. The only case where path is better is if the opponent isn't running basics.

[serendib]

actually a player I know in my area took it to a turnament and top8ed without any of test at all (the deck was borrowed)

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6919&iddeck=50193

It saw some games and it performed quite well.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Nerrzull

I'm testing it heavily last few weeks.

Will keep u posted!
DragoFireheart

There are so many issues with this deck concept I don't know where to begin, but to summarize my thoughts: Illusions suck ass.

You're both so meticulous with your analysis, you've offered so much incite for this deck. :smile:

Me on the other hand, I'm really giving it my all to bring this deck to the top. And it starts with Mother of Runes.

Shame on you guys.

[Mystical_Jackass]

actually a player I know in my area took it to a turnament and top8ed without any of test at all (the deck was borrowed)

http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6919&iddeck=50193

It saw some games and it performed quite well.

That's interesting, with Fathom Seer plus Daze, didn't he find himself short of lands quite often?

One thought about that, with Aether Vial and lands clogging your hand, you can easily convert those lands to CA if you use fetchlands (sorta like Squadron Hawk or something) if you incoroporate Brainstorm or Jace the Mindsculptor into the deck.

Being that many of the Illusions drawback is being sacraficed to targetted abilities, the plus you get is that they can't be directly exiled from StP or PtE. Is there a way you can capitalize on that with recursion (reanimate), with cards like oversold cemetary, Enduring Renewal, etc. stuff like that?

[Whippoorwill]

Being that many of the Illusions drawback is being sacraficed to targetted abilities, the plus you get is that they can't be directly exiled from StP or PtE. Is there a way you can capitalize on that with recursion (reanimate), with cards like oversold cemetary, Enduring Renewal, etc. stuff like that?

This is actually the route I plan on taking when I decide to try Illusions out. The first cards that came to mind were:

4x Phantasmal Bear
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Snapcaster Mage
3-4x Illusionary Servant
3x Skaab Ruinator

4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
3-4x Unearth (Reanimates anything in the deck)
3x Curfew (Saves my creatures and annoys the hell out of Reanimator)
2x Dismember


Still undecided if I want to run Bob or not. Also debating other spell slots (Daze, Thoughtseize, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare, etc). The main thing is I want most of my creatures to die if targeted. I don't want them removed by StP/PtE since I can use them again later with Unearth or Ruinator. I didn't include Lord or Mist because I feel they are both terrible on their own. Instead I plan on trying out Illusionary Servant since it will always be a 3/4 flier for 1UU which is better than a 1/1 flier that has the potential to be huge or a 2/2 that's just begging to be RFG and doesn't do anything worthwhile like Tiago & Bob.

I like the Oversold Cemetery idea, so I may have to try that one out.

I'm not going to say this route is better than the route others seem to be taking, its just the direction I plan on going in order to take full advantage of the sacrifice 'drawback.'

[Mr. Safety]

...I doubt illusions will ever do anything in legacy because it's just worse than merfolk. And illusions dies to grim lavamancer even harder than merfolk does because lavamancer can kill literally any illusions you cast or any lord of the unreal.

Play swords over path. One is card disadvantage the other is just them gaining some life. The only case where path is better is if the opponent isn't running basics.

Bingo, even some zoo variants are using Swords again. The life gain is marginal, the land-grant can be game-changing. It's awesome to remove a creature only to give them their 4th land so they can play Jace. :mad:

I have found that the only decks that want Path to Exile maindeck in legacy are Cat Sligh and...well, I guess only one. Some decks make it Swords #5-6 in their sideboard, but only out of neccessity.

Back on topic regarding the illusions deck: you can take any tribe, squeeze in enough blue to play Force, Brainstorm, and Daze and call it a deck. Faeries is arguably better than illusions because of Bitterblossom and Spellstutter Sprite...and they aren't doing that great at all.

Illusions is susceptable to the played board wipers (Firespout, Pernicious Deed), targeted removals (Swords, Smother, Dismember) and the counterspells of the format (Force, Spell Snare, and Daze.) You're playing Vial with a worse tribe than Goblins or Merfolk IMHO.

[Nerrzull]

-Questioning the validity of this deck. Have you tested it against other tier 1 decks? What are its' weaknesses? Strengths? Which decks does it do well against? Which decks does it do badly against? Have you brought it to any tournaments? If so, what was the size of the tournament? What place did you get with the deck?

Man u are persistent in bugging me!

a.)
Have you tested it against other tier 1 decks?
Yes! Almost all of them! On the MWS to be precise!

b.)
What are its' weaknesses?

-Bad HAND! - that is true for most of the decks!
-Has same weaknesses as the Merfolk!
-Not resolving Aether Vial "can" be big issue.
-Strong and resolved hand disruption!

Strengths?

-Has same Strengths as the older types of Merfolk deck! -> fast and strong punch, reliable card advantage + stalling power (Standstill).
-When u resolve Lord of the unreal your creatures can't be touched by spells! Big issue - With all that kill cards (Dismember's, Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile's ... etc!) floating around.
-Dumping creatures fast and instant.
-Manlands that can get synergy from other cards in deck.

c.)
Which decks does it do well against?

That heavily depends on pilot -> that is true for most/all decks!
Basically it is good against any deck against witch merfolk is good against!


-Merfolk ( exceptional - Lord of Atlantis gives manlands a kick ... and other illusions as well (when u transform them to changeling)
-Stone blade
-Winnie
- Small Zoo
.... etc!
When u SB:

- Team America
- RDW
- Red Burn
-Zoo

d.)
Which decks does it do badly against?

- Dredge
- Reanimator

e.)
Have you brought it to any tournaments? If so, what was the size of the tournament? What place did you get with the deck?


None particularly Important one!
Played 2 times with it on the local Legacy tournaments. First time finished 2.nd and next time 4.th .

Ofc! I know its weaknesses so that play was mostly for fun!
But as u can see from posts, of other people ... some have succeeded in much more important tournaments to secure notable position.

As I see it.

You are just molesting people with your posts. And you should stop, or give some good input/suggestion.




...I doubt illusions will ever do anything in legacy because it's just worse than merfolk. And illusions dies to grim lavamancer even harder than merfolk does because lavamancer can kill literally any illusions you cast or any lord of the unreal.

You are so true! They are not T1 or maybe not even T2.

But the thing is.

1.) Illusions pack a lot of power. If u ever played it, there is no denying it.
2.) If u get good hand and play it well ... there is really lot of fun and power in deck. Witch also is great disadvantage of this
deck.(getting a good hand!)
3.) It is really hard to protect Lord of the unreal . Main issue!


Because he protects and pumps all other illusions! And they really need it! Most of them die even if they are just targeted. So they need really bad protection and evasion in the form of Lord of the unreal

As I see it. Best thing is not to protect it too much!

a.)First protection plan. Just copy it with Phantasmal Image --> u get 3/3 hexproof lord. (He becomes Wizard/Illusion thus pumping and protecting himself.)

b.)Second protection/backup plan is to put it in (and instantly put in if able) Mirror Entity --> at any point in time u can activate his ability for :0: thus making all your creatures changelings (illusions) and lord pumps them at least to 1/1. This is the main reason for splashing white. After it came the Swords to Plowshares and the Leyline of Sanctity
Also Mirror Entity gives u much needed punch by spending mana!

I know that is not great ... but as best as i can get with existing cards. It would be ideal if he was something like this.

http://www.constructacard.com/images/created_cards/2341/magic/6ecc1cce83285d836190057cb2143ac63a494b88.



Play swords over path. One is card disadvantage the other is just them gaining some life. The only case where path is better is if the opponent isn't running basics.

4.) Basically ... u are RIGHT and WRONG in the same statement!


I play Swords to Plowshares because I have them. But there has been a million situations where I wished I had Path to Exile.

Basically this deck is mostly relying on the Merfolk strategy:

"HIT THEM FAST! HIT THEM HARD! DON'T LOOK BACK! DON'T GIVE YOUR OPPONENT CHANCE TO GAIN LIFE!"

So by that thinking path is much more appropriate for this deck. And if opponent gains 1 land more that won't matter if u kill him!


That's interesting, with Fathom Seer plus Daze, didn't he find himself short of lands quite often?

5.) Short answer is NO.

Ok I admit that they are land disadvantage. But if u play my decklist ... they are not so much disadvantage when u play them.


a.) Fathom Seer - if u look at my decklist i play just 2 of them as alternate card drawing mech. Most of the time they are right away replaced with 2 Cryptic Command 's in the sideboard. Altough Cryptic Command 's are too mana needy they are versatile.

b.) cards]Daze[/cards] their basic role in this deck is to protect Aether Vial mostly in first turn! So your opponents have to play around it.



One thought about that, with Aether Vial and lands clogging your hand, you can easily convert those lands to CA if you use fetchlands (sorta like Squadron Hawk or something) if you incoroporate Brainstorm or Jace the Mindsculptor into the deck.

6.) Short answer is NO.

Just look at the point 5.)

No place for Brainstorm and certainly not for Jace, the Mind Sculptor .

Standstill in synergy with the Aether Vial is your main card advantage. And good one at that!
As we all know that card advantage is the main issue in the legacy. Having it at reasonable price (cmc :2:) is very reasonable! Also it provides u with the another important function ... staling your opponent! Because most of the players are reluctant to cast spells while Standstill is in the game zone trying not to give u card advantage. In that same time, u are pumping your board with Aether Vial and pounding him with man lands ( Mutavault )


Being that many of the Illusions drawback is being sacraficed to targetted abilities, the plus you get is that they can't be directly exiled from StP or PtE. Is there a way you can capitalize on that with recursion (reanimate), with cards like oversold cemetary, Enduring Renewal, etc. stuff like that?

I'm afraid that there is just not enough space for those spells.

1.) Oversold cemetery would be great ... but that would suggest splashing Black. And manabase is stretched as far as it can be to be functional.

2.) Enduring Renewal has 4 main drawbacks:


a.) You should play with your hand revealed! --> Out of question! In today's Legacy environment, that would be extremely stupid thing to do.
b.) There is too much GY hate around ... and for good reason!
c.) Too much mana intensive (cmc :4:). By the time u get to that ... u either win or loose.
d.) Even if u had mana to waste around u would still have to had 2 Tundra on the field. With all the wasteland's and other stuff floating around ... i don't think that would be possible. And that would just left u with the useless card in the hand! ---> BIG WASTE of space!





Me on the other hand, I'm really giving it my all to bring this deck to the top. And it starts with Mother of Runes.

Do I even need to comment on this?!


Nerrzull

DragoFireheart

You're both so meticulous with your analysis, you've offered so much incite for this deck. :smile:
Shame on you guys.

There! I gave you analysis as best as i could!
I hope, by giving you some of my insight in the deck, I will not be shamed any more! :laugh:

[Mystical_Jackass]

@Nerrzull

Okay, thanks for the feedback, that was good. And I'm really hoping Wizards goes for the new Lord! (They better keep the typo on the flavor text too :wink:)

My only issue against running Path to Exile would be, don't you think it makes Daze a lot worse?

[DragoFireheart]

Nerrzull

DragoFireheart


You're both so meticulous with your analysis, you've offered so much incite for this deck. :smile:

Me on the other hand, I'm really giving it my all to bring this deck to the top. And it starts with Mother of Runes.

Shame on you guys.

-The more specific issues with this deck:

A- Lord of the unreal does not protect itself or copies of itself. This is relevant because he's going to be the first thing that dies. A resolved Grim Lavamancer will not have issues killing him and most of your illusions that die when targeted. For crying out loud, even Adaptive Automaton doesn't make LotU stronger.

B- The illusions on a whole are bad without the Lord. Again, Grim rips this deck apart far harder than it does on merfolk.

C- One of the stronger aspects of Merfolks (which this deck is trying to imitate) is that every merfolk is either disruption, card advantage, or a lord. This deck lacks all of those aspects which in itself makes it SIGNIFICANTLY weaker.

These are the largest issues I see with this deck. Illusions simply do not have the creature base to become a powerful tribal deck at the moment.

[Nerrzull]

Let me first be so bold to say that you are hopelessly stuborn or (in The lack of better word) dumb.
Let's brake Down your statements again!


A- Lord of the unreal does not protect itself or copies of itself. This is relevant because he's going to be the first thing that dies.

So? U let him die ffs! That is The point ... To have one less dirtrupter in your opponents hand. Just make sure u copy it first with Phantasmal image or to have replacement!


B- The illusions on a whole are bad without the Lord. Again, Grim rips this deck apart far harder than it does on merfolk.

As I see it.

U have 8 lord of The unreal in deck! Tell me how will creture distruption even be relevant against this deck?


C- One of the stronger aspects of Merfolks (which this deck is trying to imitate) is that every merfolk is either disruption, card advantage, or a lord. This deck lacks all of those aspects which in itself makes it SIGNIFICANTLY weaker.

I will say this just one more time! Try The deck ... And then make The judgement! Please! U are saying such a ridiculous things!

This deck in effect has 4 lord types ( Lord of The unreal Phantasmal Image Krovikan Mist and Mirror Entity )
Distruption is in The form of Force of will and Daze.
Card advantage and tempo distruption in The form of Standstill.
Also Fathom Seer a morph illusion is relevant card advantage in small dose.



Illusions simply do not have the creature base to become a powerful tribal deck at the moment.

I sign that one too. I think they will stop developing illusions. Because ... Wizards, in my opinion, are trying to slow The game.

But they are lot of fun, agresive and have great potential!

PS : Enough with the fucken Grim lavamancer!!!!
Is that only card u know?

[Whippoorwill]

Is it really that hard to type out the word 'you' instead of just the letter? /petpeeve


So? U let him die ffs! That is The point ... To have one less dirtrupter in your opponents hand. Just make sure u copy it first with Phantasmal image or to have replacement!

And what if you don't copy it with the Image or have a replacement? I think that's the point Drago is trying to make.

And while they might have 1 less piece of disruption, you now have 1 less threat. What exactly do you do when they cast Surgical Extraction on one of your key pieces? Considering the amount of play the card is seeing, this wouldn't be too uncommon, especially based on how reliant this deck is on 2-3 key cards (Lord, Entity and to a lesser extent, Image).


As I see it.

U have 8 lord of The unreal in deck! Tell me how will creture distruption even be relevant against this deck?

See above regarding Surgical Extraction.


I will say this just one more time! Try The deck ... And then make The judgement! Please! U are saying such a ridiculous things!

This deck in effect has 4 lord types ( Lord of The unreal, Phantasmal Image, Krovikian Myst and Mirror Entity )
Distruption is in The form of FOW and Daze.
Card advantage and tempo distruption in The form of Standstill.
Also morph illusion is relevant card advantage in small dose.

Standstill is good, but I would run Brainstorm before I ran Fallow Seer. With FoW, Daze, Seer and a slow clock, you're just going to put yourself behind when it comes to Tempo. Returning so many lands to your hand is just going to lower the amount of plays you can make. One of the good things about Illusions is their cost is cheap which allows you to play multiples.

And before you say it, yes I know you have Aether Vial. You can't rely on that every game though because there will be times you simply never get one.


I sign that one too. I think they will stop developing illusions. Because ... Wizards, in my opinion, are trying to slow The game.

But they are lot of fun, agresive and have great potential!

I think there will be more, especially since they printed the Lord now.


PS : Enough with the fucken Grim lavamancer!!!!
Is that only card u know?

Grim Lavamancer is very relevant due to the amount of play it sees. I'll mention some others that hurt this deck if you prefer to have other cards mentioned:

Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of Fire and Ice
Fire//Ice
Maze of Ith
Tower of the Magistrate

Fire//Ice is particularly strong against this deck due to the ability to kill up to 2 creatures for the cost of 1R.

Yes Lord protects your creatures from these things, but if you're relying on 1 card to protect the rest of your deck, then something is wrong.

[Nerrzull]

Is it really that hard to type out the word 'you' instead of just the letter? /petpeeve

Yes!



What exactly do you do when they cast Surgical Extraction on one of your key pieces? Considering the amount of play the card is seeing, this wouldn't be too uncommon, especially based on how reliant this deck is on 2-3 key cards (Lord, Entity and to a lesser extent, Image).

Every deck i vulnerable to that card!!! Do U hear what are U saying?


I think there will be more, especially since they printed the Lord now.

@Nerrzull

Okay, thanks for the feedback, that was good. And I'm really hoping Wizards goes for the new Lord! (They better keep the typo on the flavor text too :wink:)

Hope so!


Grim Lavamancer is very relevant due to the amount of play it sees. I'll mention some others that hurt this deck if you prefer to have other cards mentioned:

Umezawa's Jitte
Sword of Fire and Ice
Fire//Ice
Maze of Ith
Tower of the Magistrate

Fire//Ice is particularly strong against this deck due to the ability to kill up to 2 creatures for the cost of 1R.

Yes Lord protects your creatures from these things, but if you're relying on 1 card to protect the rest of your deck, then something is wrong.

Those are all top decks in legacy! What are u talking about!?


@ Whippoorwill - Tomorrow ill brake up deck and explain much more. Card by card!
Now just don't have time!

[Mr. Safety]

As I see it: you have 8 lord of The unreal in the deck. Tell me how will creature disruption even be relivant against this deck?

Right, because targeted removal has never been a problem for aggro decks, ever. Look at zoo! It just dies to merfolk every time! So what if 18 of their cards (on average) kill all the merfolk and merfolk only plays 8-10 counterspells? Every deck has to face removal, right? That makes Illusions good! (I hope you are seeing my sarcasm here...) I'm not saying targeted removal isn't a factor to be considered, I'm just saying that without Lord of the Unreal, anything kills all your threats. Your deck hinges on one card, and it's a creature. That's typically bad for a deck in legacy's highly competitive atmosphere.

The biggest problem is Lord of the Unreal. You need to have him stick around to make it actually be '8 lords in the deck.' If you don't draw a Lord of the Unreal, all of your threats die to the simplest targeted spell or effect in the game. I know if I was playing against your deck and you tried to play Phantasmal Image copying Lord of the Unreal, I'd just kill the Lord. Now you have *zero* lords. Be prepared for that to happen often in legacy.

This isn't even the biggest problem. The biggest problem is that targeted removal in multiples is as dangerous to this deck as Firespout and Pernicious Deed. Maybe you've heard of Snapcaster Mage? He's bringing back all the good targeted removal in the graveyard, and smiling while he does it.


PS : Enough with the fucken Grim lavamancer!!!!

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this deck is Grim Lavamancer's bitch.

[Qweerios]

I have tested the deck on cockatrice for a few rounds, and it is significantly worse than Merfolk. I would really like to see illusions work but the illusion card pool isn't good enough for that yet.

...

Who sides extractors against tempo-aggro...?

[Whippoorwill]

Who sides extractors against tempo-aggro...?

I have no problem bringing in Extraction effects against a deck like this that only has a limited number of win conditions. Get rid of the 4 Lords and the deck is even more of a joke than it already is.

I admit though that any sideboarding against a deck using Aether Figment is overestimating the match.

Another card that owns this deck is Scryb Ranger which was detailed in Julian23's GP report.

Btw: All my comments are based on the decklist Nerrzull posted on the previous page since he seems to be the main one pushing for this to happen.

[Darkenslight]

Suggestion?

Add in some Shroud/Hexproof boots. Seeing as you're relying on one card, and a creature at that, to protect the rest of your hordes, then it makes sense for either:

a) Spellskite; or
b) Lightning Graves/Swiftfoot Boots.

[Kagehisa]

I just want to make suggestions without telling what to remove, etc.
Nobody talked about Halcyon Glaze, Veiled Apparition or Veiled Sentry... It was my duty to remember you those cards x)

[serendib]

why not like this ?

4 mutavault
4 wasteland
3 island
3 underground sea
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand

4 aether vial

4 phantasmal bear
4 lord of the unreal
4 phantasmal image
3 krovikan mist
3 adaptive automation
3 fathom seer

4 force of will
4 daze

4 brainstorm / stifle
3 dismember

sideboard:
3 perish
3 surgical extraction
4 spell pierce

[Kagehisa]

You could add the green Steely Resolve to protect your Illusions... but... I can't tell what to remove or if you wanna play it main deck.

[Mystical_Jackass]

Lord isn't an illusion though, so you'd essentially be doing nothing adding that.

[TheShaun]

Suggestion?

Add in some Shroud/Hexproof boots. Seeing as you're relying on one card, and a creature at that, to protect the rest of your hordes, then it makes sense for either:

b) Lightning Graves/Swiftfoot Boots.

Target my Illusion with Greaves/Boots... Illusion triggers and is sacrificed... Sad face

[puckb]

I think the boots were for lord of unreal....

but it's smells like ' in response to equip, I sword your dude '

[Kagehisa]

Lord isn't an illusion though, so you'd essentially be doing nothing adding that.

Dear Mystical_Jackass, if I have on the battlefiled a Lord of the Unreal, as I play Steely Resolve, I will name "human/wizard"... (but I smell too the "in response, I stp your Lord" and I think this is the reason why the deck wants countermagics). Multiple Steely Resolve (one for human/wizard and the other for illusion) are not that bad...

I'm not saying this is the best play and I'm not even saying that green is the right splash...
But you're right... their trigger ability make illusions bad.

[Mystical_Jackass]

What decks have you used Steely Resolve in, might I ask? I've used it a bit in a G/W deck I have (I'm not gonna to into it in this thread), which also uses E Tutors to get it for utility. I do like the enchantment, I just don't think it's the best fit in this particular deck, my honest opinion. I agree with what you said though.

[264505]

Lord isn't an illusion though, so you'd essentially be doing nothing adding that.

If you copy the Lord with Phantasmal Image, the copy can't be targeted (Image maintains the Illusion type in addition to the others).

[Malchar]

You should definitely use mirror entity and swords/path. There's no reason that you need to be mono-blue. Speaking frankly, illusions aren't good enough right now in order to be played mono-blue. Phantasmal Image also seems good since it's the only way you can go toe-to-toe against an opposing tarmogoyf.

[Nerrzull]

Here is something u should consider!

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=10147