How do I win the die roll?

[GGoober]

So I have a track record of winning die roll 25-30% of the time. No better. I usually go by tournaments with winning 0-1 die rolls. I know this might be a stupid thread, but is there a way you roll 'correctly'? For some reasons everytime I roll my dice, it just lands flat at the lower half of the number. I can't seem to get my dice to bounce and spin around to increase randomness.

P.S.
This is also a big reason why I quit D&D.

[sdematt]

Just make sure you don't "drop the dice." Make sure you take two dice in hand, and give them a good shake, and let 'em roll. Don't be lazy and just turn your hand sideways.

-Matt

[Pinoy Goblin]

So I have a track record of winning die roll 25-30% of the time. No better. I usually go by tournaments with winning 0-1 die rolls. I know this might be a stupid thread, but is there a way you roll 'correctly'? For some reasons everytime I roll my dice, it just lands flat at the lower half of the number. I can't seem to get my dice to bounce and spin around to increase randomness.

P.S.
This is also a big reason why I quit D&D.

Just say to your opponent lowest count wins the die roll . . . for a change right? It depends both on your agreement or maybe odd or even :).

[Offler]

Not a stupid thread at all.

a) First if you are not sure with who you are playing use your own dice
b) Be sure that all players use exactly same dice.
c) If you are not sure about some tricks with dices use plastic cup not only "drop" or "throw" dice. Use the cup to whirl with dice and drop it on table while in cup. Be sure that your oponnent will do the same.

[AlexAI]

I've found D10s to be really good at die rolling since the shape makes it jump around even with little effort. Make sure you specify if 0 is 10 or 0 before you roll, though. I've had people roll a 0 and think it was 10 when I didn't specify(I mean, it is a D10, but it says 0 right on the die, so I thought it was assumed to be 0. I dunno.) and that got kind of awkward.

I agree on the 2 D6s > D20.

[KevinTrudeau]

Play Dredge, you'll get to draw first 70-75% of the time which is usually advantageous against an unknown opponent, and you won't be giving away any information about what deck you're playing since they chose the turn order.

[Nihil Credo]

Yep, this is a stupid thread. Not too stupid, but a little.

The most obvious thing: what's the sample size for that 25-30% figure? It has to be pretty high before figuring something systematic is at work. Fire up an online RNG and you'll see that it takes a LOT of rolls before the curve reliably starts to resemble a Gaußian.

Now: the way you roll your dice doesn't give you a "better" or "worse" rolling. It only makes your result more or less dependant on their starting position.

So: don't look at your die when you pick it up, and/or flip it around blindly a little before throwing. If it starts in a random position, the result will not be any less random, no matter how badly you roll.

Moderative warning: anyone advocating cheating (if your idea makes you win >50% of the time, it's cheating) gets banned for 1d20 days.

[Ozymandias]

Flip a coin, have them call it in the air.

[Fuzzy]

You can also play Gemstone Caverns until the variance changes in your favor.

[HokusSchmokus]

I have the same problem but was able to take advantage of it by playing Dredge.
If I play some other deck I mostly convince my opponent that we play a shorter and kinda light version of a drinking game called "Meiern" (or Mäxchen or Lügen ,depends on region) where you roll 2 d6. Then you look at what you rolled. a 3+a 1 for example would be a 31 a 4 + 6 would be a 64 and so on. Highest wins. A pair is higher as the numers so 1+1 is more then 6+5 and the list goes on til 6+6. Then there is the highest, the Meier, 2+1 , it wins instantly. Kinda hard to explain in english but a lot of fun to play before games :D Also I win 9/10 die rolls this way , don't know why.

[Purgatory]

NC is right, you need to roll a lot of dice before you can really tell if there truly is a pattern or if it's just in your head. Besides, unless you are playing TES against DStompy/Stax/something else that can get Chalice @ 1 on turn one, getting the first turn isn't always that clearly of a decider. Sure, Daze is awkward on the draw, but that's what sideboards are for :)

In short, focus on the more important parts of the game (i.e. actually playing it), your dice will sort themselves out.

[sauce]

agree w/ above posters and want to echo using TWO d6 dice. the small ones are better since they have smooth edges and roll in your hand/table better.

just let your opponent roll first if you are always rolling 1st and losing.

[DragoFireheart]

Pray to Odin and hope be blesses you with good fortunes.

[troopatroop]

Play Mental Misstep and enjoy being on the Draw. :P

[Pastorofmuppets]

Moderative warning: anyone advocating cheating (if your idea makes you win >50% of the time, it's cheating) gets banned for 1d20 days.

If you roll a 20, what is your crit die?

[Koby]

Bring with you Rock Lobster, Paper Tiger, and Scissors Lizard. Shuffle them up and set them upside down.

Fair way to play R/P/S.

[Justin]

I'm going to echo the idea rolling two d6s instead of a d20. A lot of d20 are "spindown" versions that cluster the numbers around each other. It is easier for a player to get the roll he wants by using such a die. It is better to use a non-spindown d20 in which the numbers are randomized or to use 2 d6s. If your percentage of winning rolls seems lower than 50%, it could be because you have been a victim of others cheating with spindown dice. I suggest that you use a more fair method. If your opponent offers to roll a spindown die to determine choice, kindly reject that offer and tell him why.

Also, as was mentioned earlier it is a good idea for both players to roll the same die/dice when determining choice. This will prevent one player from gaining an advantage (or unknowingly a disadvantage) from a loaded or otherwise unfair die. Again, if you have been losing the majority of the die rolls, it could be because you are unknowingly hurting yourself by using an unfair die that rolls low more than it should. Both players rolling the same die/dice can overcome this problem.

It was also mentioned that you should shake your die/dice well before rolling them in order to better randomize the roll. This is also an excellent habit to adopt. Failure to do so looks suspicious even if you are not intending to cheat. It's the same idea as sufficiently shuffling your deck before presenting it to your opponent.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Yep, this is a stupid thread. Not too stupid, but a little.

The most obvious thing: what's the sample size for that 25-30% figure? It has to be pretty high before figuring something systematic is at work. Fire up an online RNG and you'll see that it takes a LOT of rolls before the curve reliably starts to resemble a Gaußian.

[/COLOR][/B]

I've watched this guy roll, and I'm pretty sure he warps the fabric of statistics. Not the first person I've met with just obscenely bad die-rolling luck though.

I'll second rolling 2 D6 and actually making sure you shake them around. One D20 is also fine as long as it's NOT a spin-down, but again, make sure you actually roll it rather than dropping.

[GGoober]

Thanks guys, I know it's stupid thread because I've a science and maths background, but the comments on how to roll a dice like shake it and make it spin etc are what I'm looking for here because that increases randomization, except everytime when I shake those 2d6 hard in my palms and release them in the air, they fall on the table flat like magnets attracted to Magneto's chest.

Sad times. I did win 1 die roll out of 11 rolls (2 weeks). I know 100 rolls is a small sample size, but I'm adding up the accounts of me rolling dice since the day I've started playing Legacy competitively.

Anyhow, off to practice rolling dice with my cats.

[Julian23]

If you're e really that uncomfortable, just try to come up with a different way of deciding who goes first. Maybe one, that isn't based on "dexterity".

WAIT! Even better! Do whatever you've been doing but first agree on that the player with the lower number will go fiirst. I can almost guarantee you, that you'll suddenly start rolling higher numbers.

[kiblast]

Could someone explain what's wrong with spin-down dices? I don't really get how the disposition of numbers on faces could affect the rolling and randomness of result. Anyway, if you feel uncomfortable with d20's, roll 2-3 small d6, ones with beveled edges (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2332926006_c0bc2fa7ac.jpg). Unbeveled edges (http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/11039/11039,1166083639,1/stock-photo-two-red-glass-dices-rendered-on-the-white-background-2320970.jpg) roll worse. ( ex Warhammer player here. I've thrown thousands of dices in my life :D)

[phonics]

I think its cause spindowns have all the small numbers on one end and high numbers on the other, which could potentially be abused I suppose with enough practice.

[TsumiBand]

I think it's tied up in quantum probability. You have a shitty quantum state which affects the superposition of the subatomic particles of everything you touch. It's like how strangelets just make more strangelets, right? "unlucky" particles make more unlucky particles. It's okay, I have it too. Tell me - do you find yourself bumping into things no one else bumps into? Are you considerably less agile than your peers, even the fat ones? Do you experience feelings of dread in your attic or basement?

Srsly, never use a spin-down die.

Is there any precedent for demanding a certain kind of random event to occur when deciding who goes first? Some guys really are trying to cheat at die rolling, however specious that may be, and they get pretty good at minimizing the bounces. I think those are guys to look out for, the ones who roll a d6 and it just goes "fwap" on the playmat with minimal travel.

[Richard Cheese]

You clearly need one of these:
http://www.geekchichq.com/the-labs/GC-Labs-Tower-small.jpg

http://www.geekchichq.com/the-labs/#entropy

[GGoober]

I think it's tied up in quantum probability. You have a shitty quantum state which affects the superposition of the subatomic particles of everything you touch. It's like how strangelets just make more strangelets, right? "unlucky" particles make more unlucky particles. It's okay, I have it too. Tell me - do you find yourself bumping into things no one else bumps into? Are you considerably less agile than your peers, even the fat ones? Do you experience feelings of dread in your attic or basement?

Srsly, never use a spin-down die.

Is there any precedent for demanding a certain kind of random event to occur when deciding who goes first? Some guys really are trying to cheat at die rolling, however specious that may be, and they get pretty good at minimizing the bounces. I think those are guys to look out for, the ones who roll a d6 and it just goes "fwap" on the playmat with minimal travel.

It's simple, the numbers on a spin-down dice are not randomnly spaced/sorted. They are called spin-down for a reason. Even if you were to give as random a shake as possible, it doesn't change the fact that the numbers are not as randomnly distributed in the first place.

[honestabe]

Be careful your opponent isn't using spin downs. I'm not sure how, but a friend of mine says he's come across people that know how to consistently roll high numbers on them, so make sure you're not getting cheated.

I always seem to loose die rolls in real life, but win them on MODO. So, I just draft control decks in real life and then play constructed on MODO.

[Julian23]

No offense, but actually letting your highly subjective perception of a basically complete random event influence your draft decisions....is not only something "bad" in a competiitive sense but also as a general state of mind.

[Malakai]

No offense, but actually letting your highly subjective perception of a basically complete random event influence your draft decisions....is not only something "bad" in a competiitive sense but also as a general state of mind.

Almost as grievous as his misconception that "lose" is spelled with two 'o's.

[TeenieBopper]

Personally, I'm a big fan of sacrificing kittens and drinking virgin blood. But to each his own, I guess.

[ns2973]

Personally, I'm a big fan of sacrificing kittens and drinking virgin blood. But to each his own, I guess.

I'm exactly the opposite. Kitten blood is far superior to virgin blood.

Now, a virgin kitten? You'll be rolling crits all tourny.

[TeenieBopper]

It's simple, the numbers on a spin-down dice are not randomnly spaced/sorted. They are called spin-down for a reason. Even if you were to give as random a shake as possible, it doesn't change the fact that the numbers are not as randomnly distributed in the first place.

Uhhh... hate to break it to you, but numbers on any dice are not randomly sorted.


Normally, the faces on a die will be numbered sequentially beginning with 1, and opposite faces will thus add up to one more than the number of faces (but in the case of the d4 and dice with an odd-number of faces, this is simply not possible). Some dice, such as d10, are usually numbered sequentially beginning with 0, in which case the opposite faces will add to one less than the number of faces.

One die is just as random as any other die (of the same number of faces) unless there is something mechanically different. Y'all need to stop being so damn paranoid. Or drink some virgin kitten blood.

[Julian23]

What Metalwalker wanted to state is that on non-spin-down dices, the numbers are actually distributed evenly over the whole dice. There is no "high" or "low" side that can be abused.

[Tacosnape]

The simple answer is, you don't. Educate yourself to spot a possible cheater, then just suck it up and accept that in a completely truly random world, to make up the 50/50 average, there will be players who over their lifetime win a quarter or three quarters of their die rolls. The law of averages sometimes takes a longass time to work its stuff.

I deal Blackjack and Craps at charities and fundraisers and such for a living. As such, I can tell you this. Random is random. Random is not balanced.

I'm personally very streaky, so I feel your pain. My last twenty matches I won one, lost nine straight, then won eight of my last ten. This still adds up to being 9 and 11 over a span of twenty. Some random sets just take longer to average out.


Play Mental Misstep and enjoy being on the Draw. :P

This is probably the best response, period. This is also true of Chrome Mox, Mox Diamond, and Force of Will. They're all better when you go second. Run a mixture of cards that shine when you go first and shine when you go second.


Moderative warning: anyone advocating cheating (if your idea makes you win >50% of the time, it's cheating) gets banned for 1d20 days.

Can we have Metalwalker roll the d20?:laugh:

J/kIlessthanthreeyouNihilplzdontbanmethx

[Pulp_Fiction]

I actually agree with this thread. For reference, I barely ever win at RISK and, for some reason, when I roll two six sided dice I am consistently under 7. Everytime my opponent and I go to roll the dice, I always say "low roll" because for some reason I am good at it. I suck ass at rolling high numbers, and next time I go to Vegas I will be putting this 2 the test at the craps table.

I know this statement may baffle people, because I understand variance and the totally random nature of the die roll. Words can not describe my bad luck, everyone who knows me will back this up. Its just weird.

[Koby]

FWIW, I consistently see myself rolling "3" on a non-spin down D20. I can't explain it, but it happens very frequently, and has caused me to switch to "Bicycle" d6 dice. The trend somehow continues, as I roll 3 on those 2xd6 as well. </rant>

[Big Ear]

I generally use a 2-sided die. The results are usually pretty fair. If you are super paranoid about your rolling, you could use a table of random numbers. Just make sure to follow proper protocol for choosing a number randomly.

[honestabe]

No offense, but actually letting your highly subjective perception of a basically complete random event influence your draft decisions....is not only something "bad" in a competiitive sense but also as a general state of mind.

I was being facetious and sorry for the spelling, I had just woken up. I do however, think that drafting control decks that want to draw is particularly advantageous due to the fact that if your opponent wins the roll, they are very likely to choose to play, which make losing the roll hurt less.

[DrJones]

I don't want to risk a temp ban, so I have erasen all info about the subject that was on this post. All I can say is that spindown dice are definitely not fair, barrel dice are less fair the fewer the number of sides, and flipping a coin is as random as rock, paper, scissors (which according to experts, is not truly random when played against humans).

[Zlatzman]

What about simply rolling for an odd/even number? Throw a die and have your opponent call odd or even before it hits the table.

[GGoober]

Okay, so last week, I won 5/6 rolls! That was like astronomically impossible given my history of rolls. So it seems that the law of statistics do apply. Except I lost the games where I won the die roll!

Can I start a thread "How do I win Legacy" now? :P

Maybe the people complaining about this phenomena are just like me: we tend to see bad things more than we see good things, and complain about them more. But I've been trying to be as neutral as I can, when stating how often I win die rolls and avoid just blaming the negatives when they happen. Just bad luck I guess.

[MEATROCKET]

Seriously? Some of you really think that spindowns aren't fair? A die roll is random, no matter how the numbers are arranged. It would have to be one hell of a suspicious die roll technique to get any advantage.

Just put the damn die in your hand, shake it, and roll it. If your opponent does something strange (like an obvious attempt at trying to get an advantage with a spindown because he doesn't understand randomness, and/or because he reads threads full of people who don't understand randomness), then use another method. Have them roll a d6, odds you win.

[Digital Devil]

I constantly roll "1" on every die I throw, regardless of its shape/number of sides. Any advice would be appreciated.

[ScatmanX]

I don't know if this can help:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VJWHL2K3I


Alternately, you could simply say: Choose "even" or "odds". The one who gets it right, gets to pick who start.

[HokusSchmokus]

I hate the even or odds method.

[Gambit]

How is this a real discussion? This is maybe the worst topic that has been *seriously* discussed. Shake the goddamn dice and roll it.