Vision Charm and Equipments

[GGoober]

This is an interesting scenario:

I know that phasing doesn't make the permanent come into play and leave play, so these abilities don't trigger. I'm also aware that if you phase an artifact creature with counters/auras on it, they stay on the phased creature and come back in when it phases back in.

Take a scenario: I Vision Charm Batterskull equipment. Usually the germ will die if it's a Naturalize effect. Will the germ actually phase out together with the Batterskull and then come back in unharmed? I believe this is the situation but I just wanted to confirm.

(Also Vision Charm is pretty interesting against Painterstone, acting as a 1-turn stifle against Painter when they try to grind you).

[cdr]

Things attached to a permanent that phases out will also phase out, but not vice-versa.

702.24f (http://yawgatog.com/resources/magic-rules/#R70224). When a permanent phases out, any Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications attached to that permanent phase out at the same time. This alternate way of phasing out is known as phasing out "indirectly." An Aura, Equipment, or Fortification that phased out indirectly won't phase in by itself, but instead phases in along with the permanent it's attached to.

[Glorfindel]

Could you use Vision Charm to get rid of the Batterskull entirely? If you target the Germ token, the equipment will phase out indirectly, and tokens cease to exist when phased out. So the equipment will stay phased out because the equipped creature will never phase in.

[cdr]

Could you use Vision Charm to get rid of the Batterskull entirely? If you target the Germ token, the equipment will phase out indirectly, and tokens cease to exist when phased out. So the equipment will stay phased out because the equipped creature will never phase in.

That'd be correct, if the germ were an artifact.

[Hopo]

That's correct.

It would be, if you only could target the germ with Vision Charm.

[JCLe]

Could you use Vision Charm to get rid of the Batterskull entirely? If you target the Germ token, the equipment will phase out indirectly, and tokens cease to exist when phased out. So the equipment will stay phased out because the equipped creature will never phase in.

Yea, too bad *it's target artifact :(

[Justin]

Could you use Vision Charm to get rid of the Batterskull entirely? If you target the Germ token, the equipment will phase out indirectly, and tokens cease to exist when phased out. So the equipment will stay phased out because the equipped creature will never phase in.

The problem with that is that you cannot target the germ token with Vision Charm because the token is a non-artifact creature. Vision Charm says "Target artifact phases out." If the germ token became an artifact creature somehow (through Memnarch for example), and was hit by Vision Charm, then you would be correct that the Batterskull would not phase back in.

[Tacosnape]

Right. You have to phase out the Germ, not the Batterskull. Sapphire Charm sort of goes the distance here. But not Vision.

[Julian23]

Or just play Reality Ripple.