Tombstalker
07-09-2011, 08:13 PM
NOTE: DECKLIST HAS UNDERGONE A COMPLETE OVERHAUL PLEASE REFER TO POST #5
Primer: Vengeful Tribe
Introduction
I am rather new to this community and I have also never attempted a primer before so any help and/or pointers would be mucho appreciated. I am aware that many, if not all of you are very experienced at this game and may have insights that I do not. Please consider this in any response you choose to give. With that in mind also note that this deck is still in testing so all test results, feedback and suggestions you may share are welcomed.
What Is Vengeful Tribe
Vengeful Tribe is a U/G/w deck with 25 creatures at its core. It is not quite aggro and not quite combo but includes elements of both. The deck is primarily an aggressive deck built around abusing Vengevine in the wake of the banning of SotF. However it is also capable of a several combos including a 2 card combo which can allow the deck to go lethal at any moment and as early as turn 2. Equal credit for this decks design must also go to my good friend and MTG guru Mike Panek.
Why Play Vengeful Tribe
By now you may be thinking why would I want to play Vengeful Tribe instead of Dredge as Vengeful Tribe appears very similar in function?
The answer is several reasons:
-Vengevine. This is one of the decks namesakes and primary reason to play this deck. Free reoccurring 4/3 hasty beaters that do not get sacrificed EoT are simply amazing.
-Resilience. Vengeful Tribe does not abuse the graveyard nearly as extensively as Dredge. Because of this the deck is also more resilient to graveyard hate and can instead adapt a more successful slow-roll aggro strategy in response to hate attempts.
-Card quality. Vengeful Tribe includes some of the best one drops in legacy. Mother of Runes, Noble Hierarch, Nimble Mongoose and even Tireless Tribe could all be considered ‘must answer’ threats in this deck. I also include access to Swords to Plowshares, Brainstorm, Life from the Loam, Intuition and Vengevine in this list of quality cards. In addition the sheer volume of creatures this deck can produce can often make it difficult for opposing creatures to get in for any damage.
Lastly, with 18 cards that either dig, tutor or cantrip Vengeful Tribe has a superior card selection engine allowing you to actually choose which cards you see and which end up in the grave. This also leads to greater sideboard flexibility and a broader base of cards from which to choose from.
The downside
While not as susceptible to graveyard hate as traditional Dredge, Vengeful Tribe does not have the inherent immunity to hand disruption and countermagic that Dredge can boast. This in turn leads to a lower win percentage than Dredge against decks that run one or even both strategies, such as Team America .
The Current List (60)
Lands 16
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Cephalid Coliseum
Creatures 25
4 Vengevine
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Hapless Researcher
2 Nimble Mongoose
3 Mother of Runes
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Wonder
Draw 12
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
Utility 7
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Twisted Image
1 Life from the Loam
Card Choices
Lands:
Why only 16 lands? While this deck prefers to sit at 2-3 lands, it is perfectly capable of functioning on a single land. With the sheer number of card filtering spells we run finding lands will almost never be a problem. Because of this Wasteland wars are usually in your favor.
Wasteland- With the low land count we have included only 2 Wastelands. This is mostly due to limited space as I have never played less than 4 Wastelands. But, I have convinced myself that this is also in part because you really don’t want to be drawing many colorless lands in the early game. Conversely, a mid to late game Intuition finding 2 Wastelands + Loam is all you need to start the engine to either wastelock and/or to gain massive card advantage.
Cephalid Coliseum- Another discard outlet and also part of a mid to late game CA engine in conjunction with Life from the Loam.
Creatures:
Vengevine- The primary win condition of the deck. It is important to note that Vengevine’s triggered ability activates in response to the casting of the second creature spell, regardless of whether those creature spells were countered or not. Vengevine is usually the priority target for your first Intuition.
Tireless Tribe- Primarily a discard outlet, Tribe is very utility and a must answer threat in this deck capable of dumping Vengevine, Loam and Wonder and triggering Vengevine via Rootwalla all for one mana as soon as turn 1. In addition Tribe is capable of blocking the largest creatures in the format via timely discard of Vengevines, Wonder, Loam, Rootwallas or anything in a Pinch. He also enables the deck to combo into a turn 2 kill. Can sometimes become an “oops I win” button with Wonder and/or Mother.
Noble Hierarch- A great tempo boost as well as another Vengevine trigger, they also come with Exalted allowing Vengevines to trade with Tombstalkers and Tarmogoyfs while ramping you into turn 2 Intuitions. Note that Goose can still benefit from exalted.
Basking Rootwalla- Essentially a ‘free’ creature that helps offset the card disadvantage of your discard outlets while also enabling early vengevines for only 1 mana. Rootwalla adds a great deal of speed to the deck and reduces your reliance on actual mana.
Mother of Runes- One of our most utility one-drops, Mother is a great alternate turn 1 play and stops spot removal, makes creatures unblockable and along with Tireless Tribe forms a very strong core of defense. Mother can also be terribly annoying with Wonder. If you’ve never played against multiple flying mom’s I can tell you its not fun.
Hapless Researcher- This little guy digs one card deeper while adding himself to the creature count for Vengevine activation. He combos well when drawing into Rootwalla for a one mana activation. Researcher also helps a little by digging for and dumping Vengevine, Wonder and Loam. Lastly you can block and then sac this guy to prevent a Jitte from going active and can sac him to remove bridge from below.
Nimble Mongoose- Nimble Mongoose is simply a hyper efficient one drop we included to add some extra threat density to the deck, replacing 2 Hapless Researchers. Goose trades with many of the formats most relevant creatures and can provides a clock when needed. 2 seems to be the right number as you don’t want to see too many of them early on but once you reach threshold mongoose becomes a viable threat and with exalted can hit as hard as a vengevine.
Shrieking Drake- The yoyo and one-man Vengevine activator of the deck. Not good in multiples but awesome as a topdeck. Like Rootwalla this guy also helps with discard, allowing you to cast him twice for activation and then even discard him if necessary.
Wonder- Provides evasion, pure and simple. Along with Vengevine this guy is also a priority target for your first Intuition. Most decks wont last long against multiple flying vengevines/Tribes/Mongeese.
Draw:
Careful Study- One of our primary discard outlets used to dig for Vengevines, Wonder and Loam. Also fixes your hand by discarding unwanted cards and mana flood.
Brainstorm- The best card in Legacy. In this deck its just really good instead of utterly amazing.Used to find quality cards and shuffle away chafe. Late game Brainstorm can also be used in conjunction with Life from the Loam to turn lands into spells along with Coliseum.
Intuition- The decks tutor and Primary means of finding Vengevine, Wonder, Life from the Loam, Coliseum and Wasteland. Most other cards have been included as 3-ofs so that in a pinch you can also Intuition for a 3 set if you simply ‘must have’ an answer, such as StP.
Utility:
Swords to Plowshares- The best spot removal in the format. At one mana and instant speed it fits perfectly in this deck.
Life from the Loam- The mid to late game engine. This card is tutorable, reoccurable and allows you to gain loads of card advantage in conjunction with Coliseum and Brainstorm, sets up a wastelock and also fuels Twisted Image.
Twisted Image- Included entirely for its interaction with Tireless Tribe. At first glance this card appears to be just a junk cantrip. However, Twisted Image gives this deck an element of ‘unknown’ by allowing for kills as fast as turn 2. It also makes Tireless Tribe a very dangerous threat.
At worst the spell basically reads “give target Tireless Tribe +4/+0 or alternately draw a card”.
It is very important to note that spells and effects that switch a creatures Power and Toughness take effect last, even if they were resolved first. This is significant because it means your opponent must choose to counter Twisted Image before you decide to discard any cards. Hell you can even cast it in your main phase to cantrip and later on decide whether to attack or not. Late game Life from the Loam can fuel this card so it remains a valid threat and a great surprise win condition, especially with Wonder and/or an active Mother of Runes.
Lastly I suppose its worth noting that quite a few relevant creatures can be killed with Twisted Image buying you some CA since it also cantrips.
Here is a short list of relevant creatures you can kill with Twisted Image: Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise, Signal Pest, Spellskite, Seasinger, Doran, Steppe Lynx, Xantid Swarm, Hedron Crab, Kor Spiritdancer, Magus of the Moat, Magus of the Bazaar, Mesa Enchantress, Millikin, Ornithoptor, Verduran Enchantress, and most walls.
So that’s all I have for the primer at this point, now I await the verdict!
Primer: Vengeful Tribe
Introduction
I am rather new to this community and I have also never attempted a primer before so any help and/or pointers would be mucho appreciated. I am aware that many, if not all of you are very experienced at this game and may have insights that I do not. Please consider this in any response you choose to give. With that in mind also note that this deck is still in testing so all test results, feedback and suggestions you may share are welcomed.
What Is Vengeful Tribe
Vengeful Tribe is a U/G/w deck with 25 creatures at its core. It is not quite aggro and not quite combo but includes elements of both. The deck is primarily an aggressive deck built around abusing Vengevine in the wake of the banning of SotF. However it is also capable of a several combos including a 2 card combo which can allow the deck to go lethal at any moment and as early as turn 2. Equal credit for this decks design must also go to my good friend and MTG guru Mike Panek.
Why Play Vengeful Tribe
By now you may be thinking why would I want to play Vengeful Tribe instead of Dredge as Vengeful Tribe appears very similar in function?
The answer is several reasons:
-Vengevine. This is one of the decks namesakes and primary reason to play this deck. Free reoccurring 4/3 hasty beaters that do not get sacrificed EoT are simply amazing.
-Resilience. Vengeful Tribe does not abuse the graveyard nearly as extensively as Dredge. Because of this the deck is also more resilient to graveyard hate and can instead adapt a more successful slow-roll aggro strategy in response to hate attempts.
-Card quality. Vengeful Tribe includes some of the best one drops in legacy. Mother of Runes, Noble Hierarch, Nimble Mongoose and even Tireless Tribe could all be considered ‘must answer’ threats in this deck. I also include access to Swords to Plowshares, Brainstorm, Life from the Loam, Intuition and Vengevine in this list of quality cards. In addition the sheer volume of creatures this deck can produce can often make it difficult for opposing creatures to get in for any damage.
Lastly, with 18 cards that either dig, tutor or cantrip Vengeful Tribe has a superior card selection engine allowing you to actually choose which cards you see and which end up in the grave. This also leads to greater sideboard flexibility and a broader base of cards from which to choose from.
The downside
While not as susceptible to graveyard hate as traditional Dredge, Vengeful Tribe does not have the inherent immunity to hand disruption and countermagic that Dredge can boast. This in turn leads to a lower win percentage than Dredge against decks that run one or even both strategies, such as Team America .
The Current List (60)
Lands 16
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Cephalid Coliseum
Creatures 25
4 Vengevine
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Basking Rootwalla
2 Hapless Researcher
2 Nimble Mongoose
3 Mother of Runes
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Wonder
Draw 12
4 Careful Study
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
Utility 7
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Twisted Image
1 Life from the Loam
Card Choices
Lands:
Why only 16 lands? While this deck prefers to sit at 2-3 lands, it is perfectly capable of functioning on a single land. With the sheer number of card filtering spells we run finding lands will almost never be a problem. Because of this Wasteland wars are usually in your favor.
Wasteland- With the low land count we have included only 2 Wastelands. This is mostly due to limited space as I have never played less than 4 Wastelands. But, I have convinced myself that this is also in part because you really don’t want to be drawing many colorless lands in the early game. Conversely, a mid to late game Intuition finding 2 Wastelands + Loam is all you need to start the engine to either wastelock and/or to gain massive card advantage.
Cephalid Coliseum- Another discard outlet and also part of a mid to late game CA engine in conjunction with Life from the Loam.
Creatures:
Vengevine- The primary win condition of the deck. It is important to note that Vengevine’s triggered ability activates in response to the casting of the second creature spell, regardless of whether those creature spells were countered or not. Vengevine is usually the priority target for your first Intuition.
Tireless Tribe- Primarily a discard outlet, Tribe is very utility and a must answer threat in this deck capable of dumping Vengevine, Loam and Wonder and triggering Vengevine via Rootwalla all for one mana as soon as turn 1. In addition Tribe is capable of blocking the largest creatures in the format via timely discard of Vengevines, Wonder, Loam, Rootwallas or anything in a Pinch. He also enables the deck to combo into a turn 2 kill. Can sometimes become an “oops I win” button with Wonder and/or Mother.
Noble Hierarch- A great tempo boost as well as another Vengevine trigger, they also come with Exalted allowing Vengevines to trade with Tombstalkers and Tarmogoyfs while ramping you into turn 2 Intuitions. Note that Goose can still benefit from exalted.
Basking Rootwalla- Essentially a ‘free’ creature that helps offset the card disadvantage of your discard outlets while also enabling early vengevines for only 1 mana. Rootwalla adds a great deal of speed to the deck and reduces your reliance on actual mana.
Mother of Runes- One of our most utility one-drops, Mother is a great alternate turn 1 play and stops spot removal, makes creatures unblockable and along with Tireless Tribe forms a very strong core of defense. Mother can also be terribly annoying with Wonder. If you’ve never played against multiple flying mom’s I can tell you its not fun.
Hapless Researcher- This little guy digs one card deeper while adding himself to the creature count for Vengevine activation. He combos well when drawing into Rootwalla for a one mana activation. Researcher also helps a little by digging for and dumping Vengevine, Wonder and Loam. Lastly you can block and then sac this guy to prevent a Jitte from going active and can sac him to remove bridge from below.
Nimble Mongoose- Nimble Mongoose is simply a hyper efficient one drop we included to add some extra threat density to the deck, replacing 2 Hapless Researchers. Goose trades with many of the formats most relevant creatures and can provides a clock when needed. 2 seems to be the right number as you don’t want to see too many of them early on but once you reach threshold mongoose becomes a viable threat and with exalted can hit as hard as a vengevine.
Shrieking Drake- The yoyo and one-man Vengevine activator of the deck. Not good in multiples but awesome as a topdeck. Like Rootwalla this guy also helps with discard, allowing you to cast him twice for activation and then even discard him if necessary.
Wonder- Provides evasion, pure and simple. Along with Vengevine this guy is also a priority target for your first Intuition. Most decks wont last long against multiple flying vengevines/Tribes/Mongeese.
Draw:
Careful Study- One of our primary discard outlets used to dig for Vengevines, Wonder and Loam. Also fixes your hand by discarding unwanted cards and mana flood.
Brainstorm- The best card in Legacy. In this deck its just really good instead of utterly amazing.Used to find quality cards and shuffle away chafe. Late game Brainstorm can also be used in conjunction with Life from the Loam to turn lands into spells along with Coliseum.
Intuition- The decks tutor and Primary means of finding Vengevine, Wonder, Life from the Loam, Coliseum and Wasteland. Most other cards have been included as 3-ofs so that in a pinch you can also Intuition for a 3 set if you simply ‘must have’ an answer, such as StP.
Utility:
Swords to Plowshares- The best spot removal in the format. At one mana and instant speed it fits perfectly in this deck.
Life from the Loam- The mid to late game engine. This card is tutorable, reoccurable and allows you to gain loads of card advantage in conjunction with Coliseum and Brainstorm, sets up a wastelock and also fuels Twisted Image.
Twisted Image- Included entirely for its interaction with Tireless Tribe. At first glance this card appears to be just a junk cantrip. However, Twisted Image gives this deck an element of ‘unknown’ by allowing for kills as fast as turn 2. It also makes Tireless Tribe a very dangerous threat.
At worst the spell basically reads “give target Tireless Tribe +4/+0 or alternately draw a card”.
It is very important to note that spells and effects that switch a creatures Power and Toughness take effect last, even if they were resolved first. This is significant because it means your opponent must choose to counter Twisted Image before you decide to discard any cards. Hell you can even cast it in your main phase to cantrip and later on decide whether to attack or not. Late game Life from the Loam can fuel this card so it remains a valid threat and a great surprise win condition, especially with Wonder and/or an active Mother of Runes.
Lastly I suppose its worth noting that quite a few relevant creatures can be killed with Twisted Image buying you some CA since it also cantrips.
Here is a short list of relevant creatures you can kill with Twisted Image: Noble Hierarch, Birds of Paradise, Signal Pest, Spellskite, Seasinger, Doran, Steppe Lynx, Xantid Swarm, Hedron Crab, Kor Spiritdancer, Magus of the Moat, Magus of the Bazaar, Mesa Enchantress, Millikin, Ornithoptor, Verduran Enchantress, and most walls.
So that’s all I have for the primer at this point, now I await the verdict!