[DTB] Blade Control

[redesign1991]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Looks like I'll be main boarding my 2 Verdicts to complete the total 60. Now I only need to consider making a sideboard for the deck. As for the sideboard, I have a single copy of Enlightened Tutor. So let's say here's more or less a sideboard:

1 E. tutor
1 RiP
1 Back to Basics
1 E. Canonist
1 Detention Sphere
2 Meddling Mage

As for other sideboard options: 2 additional RiP or 2 Surgical Extraction? Should I put in something like Swan Song? Is it worth side boarding something like the sword of the meek / thopther combo? Hydro blast and or Blue E Blast?

I have one Mishra Factory, I could purchase some more. Moorland Haunt is very cheap. Just wondering how good they are with all those wastelands out there.

I guess I should have 2-3 Disenchant as well.

Again, thanks for the insight!

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I have a bigger problem with 10 Islands than I do with Moorland Haunt. If they waste it, you got lucky. I'd play 2 more RIP but I prefer a grafdiggers cage over a 3rd RIP. I don't think Surgical is good enough without playing discard. I don't know why you should need BEB/Hydroblast. If you can't afford flusterstorm then yes, Songs are great. Also, since Cliques are not in the cards, so to speak, I'd go to 3 meddling mage. 1 disenchant is fine. If you want another, I'd go with unexpectedly absent or the new Council's Judgment, or Oblivion Ring before Disenchant #2.

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[redesign1991]

So I guess something like:

1 E Tutor
1 E Canonist
1 D Sphere
1 B2B
1 PtE
3 RiP or 2 RiP 1 Cage
2 M Mage
1 Disenchant
3 Swan Song
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Will save up for Flusterstorm. One or 2 copies?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I like 2-3 depending, but 2 is sufficient. If you need the 3rd, song is just as reliable.

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[redesign1991]

Alright, I think I've sorted it out pretty much:


1 Pithing Needle
1 Enlighted Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Disenchant
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
2 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm


I might wait a bit with purchasing Flusterstorm at the moment (budget), so I'm thinking to play 1 B2B and 1 additional Swan Song in the side for now. No Engineered Explosives... Is it a must? And what to cut out for it?

As for some additional questions about the main board, I'm thinking about cutting 1 Spell Snare in order to run an additional Spell Pierce. But still tinkering on about that choice since 2 is a relevant number.

How many copies of Moorland Haunt should I run ? Just a singleton?

Should I opt for Mishra's Factory and Moorland Haunt, is the B2B in the side still viable?

[pechunato]

Hey guys, I'm in need of some advice:

I have most of the cards for a UW version, but I'm lacking those True-Name Nemesis. Is it possible to play the deck without them?

I thought of some replacements (bear with me):
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: can block, attack with evasion, and is hard to kill (this would somewhat mimic Esper Blade's Lingering Souls).
Invisible Stalker: unblockable, and hard to kill (sort of "half TNN". I could run more removal to compensate its lack of blocking capabilities and I would play a Sword of Fire and Ice to make up for its low power).
Or maybe I shouldn't try to replace them, and make the deck less focused on winning by equipping a TNN?

Thanks in advance.

[crush]

Hey guys, I'm in need of some advice:

I have most of the cards for a UW version, but I'm lacking those True-Name Nemesis. Is it possible to play the deck without them?

I thought of some replacements (bear with me):
Elspeth, Knight-Errant: can block, attack with evasion, and is hard to kill (this would somewhat mimic Esper Blade's Lingering Souls).
Invisible Stalker: unblockable, and hard to kill (sort of "half TNN". I could run more removal to compensate its lack of blocking capabilities and I would play a Sword of Fire and Ice to make up for its low power).
Or maybe I shouldn't try to replace them, and make the deck less focused on winning by equipping a TNN?

Thanks in advance.

A small black splash will allow you to play lingering souls. These are imo still perfectly fine equipment carriers (look up some Joe Bernal list from past scg opens)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I actually like his most recent one the best. It has a super small splash of black, including a set of Thoughtseize in the side for the more relevant matches. I think he still uses a couple TNN but until you get them, Lingering Souls is by far the best plan. Also, elspeth is good. Play one, she's also very good with factory.

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[pechunato]

@crush, @Secretly.A.Bee: thanks!

I forgot to mention that I don't have access to any Underground Sea, that's why I was looking for cards in white or blue. Maybe something like Vendilion Clique?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Sweet. You have cliques? That's a nice choice. Do you have Karakas? I haven't enjoyed Venser in Blade lists. Too clunky with better options available. How many do you have? Clique can often enable really powerful +2 Jace activations, get you fresh cards and getting rid of dead discard spells later in the game.

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[pechunato]

Nope, I don't have any Karakas. Anyways, this would be a first draft (that looks like a somewhat budget version):

//9
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique

//4
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

//2
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

//9
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

//6
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict

//6
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

//24
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Glacial Fortress
4 Tundra
2 Plains
4 Island
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory

Unfortunately, no extra Jaces or Snapcasters.

Another option available to me would be a Red splash for:
Lightning Bolt (not really needed I guess)
Blood Moon (nice to have)
Pyroblast (very useful)
Engineered Explosives (catch-all answer, good against True-Name Nemesis and Liliana of the Veil)

[The Duck!!]

Alright, I think I've sorted it out pretty much:


1 Pithing Needle
1 Enlighted Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Path to Exile
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Disenchant
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
2 Swan Song
2 Flusterstorm


I might wait a bit with purchasing Flusterstorm at the moment (budget), so I'm thinking to play 1 B2B and 1 additional Swan Song in the side for now. No Engineered Explosives... Is it a must? And what to cut out for it?

As for some additional questions about the main board, I'm thinking about cutting 1 Spell Snare in order to run an additional Spell Pierce. But still tinkering on about that choice since 2 is a relevant number.

How many copies of Moorland Haunt should I run ? Just a singleton?

Should I opt for Mishra's Factory and Moorland Haunt, is the B2B in the side still viable?

1 Moorland Haunt and 3-4 mishra's factory.


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[Arsenal]

Played in a small 10 man tourney today, with a Top 4 cut. Took 2nd place, losing to my Jund teammate in the finals. Will come back to post/edit more when my brain unwinds...

[Arsenal]

So me and two of my teammates (Jund and Dredge) headed up to The Mana Vault in Fond du Lac, WI for a Legacy tourney this past Saturday. The shop and owners are very nice, with the Facebook event page indicating we’d hit 20-25 players. Unfortunately, people must’ve gotten cold feet because we fired with 10 players; that meant 4 rounds of Swiss and a cut to Top 4.

Here’s the 75 I registered:

Main

1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Supreme Verdict

1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Moorland Haunt
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra’s Factory

Side

1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Humility
2 Disenchant
3 Rest in Peace
1 Detention Sphere
3 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
2 Swan Song

Round 1: Red Deck Wins

Game 1: I’m on the draw and mull to 6 and see Spell Pierce, TNN, lands. I keep. He lays Mountain, swings with Goblin Guide. I see another Spell Pierce. He lays the red Eidolon. He then drops Hellspark Elemental and Goblin Guide #2 while I’m holding onto 2x Spell Pierce… I die shortly thereafter.

Sideboarding: -2 Supreme Verdict, -2 Jace, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Vendilion Clique, +2 Disenchant (hits red Eidolon and I’m anticipating Sulfuric Vortex)

Game 2: I open with lots of creatures, but no countermagic. I hesitate, but elect to keep as I hope to just drop dude after dude and SFM -> Batterskull ftw. This plan almost worked out as I eventually have an unsick SFM in play with Batterskull in hand, but the rest of my hand is dead. He is hellbent and I’m at 3 life. He draws and topdecks Rift Bolt, which he’s able to hardcast. Had he drawn any creature or a land, I win there. Alas, I lose unceremoniously to Red Deck Wins. Bleh.

0-1 Matches, 0-2 Games

Round 2: The Rack (Mono Black Discard)

Game 1: He’s on the play and blows his wad with Ritual into multiple discard effects. We both are low on cards at that point, but I draw into gas whereas he bricks and draws into nothing. He resolves a Shrieking Affliction, but it’s too late as I have a TNN and Jace on board. I put him on The Rack deck that is occasionally played in Modern, but ported to Legacy… this is my penance for losing round 1.

Sideboarding: -2 Supreme Verdict, -2 Force of Will, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Disenchant, +1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: He opens with Duress and grabs something irrelevant. He then proceeds to draw into all of his lands for the rest of the game. I win easily. This unfortunately wasn’t a game of Magic due to variance, but I felt very confident that I would’ve won regardless.

1-1 Matches, 2-2 Games

Round 3: Deathblade

Game 1: I’m on the play and know what he’s on as I did some scouting earlier. I keep a very creature heavy hand to hopefully power through whatever. I eventually have a board of Snapcaster, SFM, Jitte, TNN x 2. He has a board of TNN, SFM, Batterskull. There is a pivotal point in the game where he has an opportunity to equip his TNN with Batterskull and put his life total up to where it would’ve bought him an extra turn or two, but he does not see the play. I draw into a 2nd SFM, get Batterskull out, equip my TNN with Batterskull, then swing for lethal due to Jitte counters + Batterskull on my TNN. This game was fairly dumb as it revolved around TNN and little else.

Sideboarding: -4 Force of Will, -+1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine, +2 Disenchant

Game 2: My opponent seems to open with a creature heavy hand as he plays out DRS, DRS #2, TNN in his first three turns. I then cast Supreme Verdict into his two open mana (presumably Counterspell); he never recovers and I win easily with Clique equipped with SoFaF and eventually SoFaI.

2-1 Matches, 4-2 Games

Round 4: Belcher

Game 1: He’s on the play, but I know what he’s on thanks to my Dredge teammate giving me the scoop. I open with Force of Will, Supreme Verdict, SoFaI, Batterskull, 3 lands. I keep as this gives me Force on the draw, even though the rest of my hand is garbage. He has the combo and I end up Forcing his Charbelcher. My first draw? SFM. Thank you Jesus. I cast SFM, grab Jitte, flash in Batterskull a turn later, then go to town. He scoops.

Sideboarding: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -3 TNN, +1 Flusterstorm, +2 Swan Song, +3 Meddling Mage, +1 Vendilion Clique

Game 2: I open with the absolute nuts; Force, Mage, Swan Song, Brainstorm, Snapcaster, Island, Tundra. He mulls to 6 and simply passes his turn without casting a spell; this leads me to believe his hand is full of rituals, but just needs to draw into one enabler to go off. I drop an Island, pass. He draws, passes again. I drop Tundra, resolve Mage naming “Empty the Warrens”. He frowns, draws, discards an Empty the Warrens. Next turn he G Probes me and see my loaded hand, he immediately concedes as he cannot fight through multiple counterspells.

3-1 Matches, 6-2 Games. I make Top 4 as do my other 2 teammates, so it’s us and my r1 Red Deck Wins opponent in the Top 4. We split, so all of us walk away with $56 cash or $69 store credit.

Top 4: Red Deck Wins

Game 1: I open with a good mix of countermagic, lands, and a SFM. I cast SFM turn 2 (grab Batterskull), to which he tries to Bolt. I end up Forcing his Bolt, just hoping he doesn’t have another creature-kill spell… he does not. I SFM -> Batterskull and easily win from there. I was fairly lucky that he didn’t have another kill spell for my SFM.

Sideboarding: -2 Supreme Verdict, -2 Jace, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 Vendlion Clique, +2 Disenchant

Game 2: His deck does what it is designed to do and he gets me down to 2 life, but he’s down to 1 land (courtesy of Fireblast) and no cards. I have just cast a SFM and grabbed Batterskull. He draws into nothing for the next two turns while I flash in Batterskull and win from there. He shows me his hand afterwards; two Pyroblast. Yuck.

4-1 Matches, 8-2 Games. Onto the Finals vs. my Jund teammate (he beat our Dredge teammate in the other Top 4 match)

Finals: Jund

Game 1: I elect to keep an ultra loose hand as nothing is really on the line and my opponent is my buddy. My opener is 6 lands, 1 Brainstorm. I figure this Brainstorm will either be the best thing ever, or lose me the game on the spot. I draw a land, Brainstorm, and draw into three more lands. I put two lands back, fetch next turn and proceed to lose very quickly.

Sideboarding: -4 Force of Will, -2 Snapcaster, +2 Rest in Peace, +1 Sword of Fire and Ice, +1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Detention Sphere, +1 Disenchant

Game 2: I put up a decent fight with removal for his Dark Confidant, Snapcaster -> StP for his DRS, but eventually I run out of gas while he gets his Punishing Fire/Grove engine online. I do not find TNN + Equipment and proceed to die a slow, painful death.

4-2 Matches, 8-4 Games.

Overall, it was a fun tournament despite the small size and some tier 2.5 decks. All the players were friendly and wanted to learn more about Legacy. The Mana Vault is definitely a great venue and they will start holding Legacy tourneys every other month.

[kirdie]

Does anyone have the decklist of Thomas Strong's UW Stoneblade from the starcity games invitational?

[Arsenal]

Went 3-0 at our weekly, beating Deathblade (2-0), Jund NicFit (2-1) and MonoU CounterTop (2-0). Despite my initial excitement, Council's Judgment has not yet found a home in my 75 and I don't think it will at this point. The only maindeck slots that could possibly be Council's Judgment is currently occupied by Supreme Verdict, which definitely has been pulling it's weight recently. As a sideboard card, it seems less impressive and lower impact than something like Detention Sphere or Humility.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Nice job. Was the DeathBlade build playing TNN or Lingering Souls? Maybe you meta has no reason to play CJ, but mine would benefit from it. I just haven't had the opportunity to pick some up.

[Qweerios]

I went 3-0 at a weekly tournament beating deathblade 2-0, shardless bug 2-0, and team america 2-1. I used a straight uw list with mishra's and judgements instead of ruins, moorland, and the red splash.

The two copies of judgement i played were crucial in dealing with bskull and nemesis. I am not sure about the amount of copies that should be played but i definitely like the card.


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[Secretly.A.Bee]

Sweet. I feel bug to be difficult, shardless can often feel nigh unwinnable so to 2-0 it, I'm wondering if you play different from myself, and if you have details about the match. Same on Team America.

[Qweerios]

Sweet. I feel bug to be difficult, shardless can often feel nigh unwinnable so to 2-0 it, I'm wondering if you play different from myself, and if you have details about the match. Same on Team America.

They are both difficult decks to play against and we rarely get a second chance during a match. Against BUG, Batterskull and Nemesis are cards they have lots of difficulty dealing with so play accordingly. I side out 4 FoW, 3 Pierce, and 2 Snap for 2 Meddling Mages (naming AV and/or Decay), 2 RiP, 2 Cliques, 1 Path, 1 Verdict, 1 Envelop. I don't like Pierce in that MU because BUG tends to flood out and any of the cards Pierce counters early are as effective later as well in a control mirror (TS, Hymn, Lily, Jace, AV). Bite the Hymns and don't feel pressured by their card advantage (Strix and AV) as it often means very little in the long run.

Against TA I side out 3 Jace, 1 FoW, and 2 Snaps for 2 RiP, 2 Cliques, 1 Path, and 1 Verdict. I focus on countering Hymn and Lily first as they are their primary hosers against us and then I try to deal with the threats. If you can manage that then the game is likely yours.

I played the following list:


4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell

2 Council's Judgment
2 Supreme Verdict

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

3 jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
1 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard
2 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
1 Envelop
1 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace


The more I play this deck, the more I want to benefit from a 3rd color. Splashing for 1-2 cards and a few more SB options only requires 1-2 less Tundras/Islands. I would personally really like Sylvan Library instead of Jace as I find Jace to be very clunky in lots of matchups. Costing 2UU is much more prohibitive than 1G even for a UW control deck when cards like Daze, Pierce, Nemesis, Thalia and Delver are all over the format. I find Library better at digging us out of compromising positions and about as good as Jace at helping us take over a game.

Life from the Loam is another beautiful card that I miss greatly as I have so often combined it with Brainstorm and Jace to gain insurmountable card advantage. I think splitting Mishras' and Wastelands wouldn't be a bad idea either regardless of LftL simply because manlands are usually relevant later in a game and having multiples has little benefits compared to the diversity of disruption that a Wasteland provides.

[Arsenal]

Went 3-0 again at my weekly, beating Tom Ross Infect (2-0), MUD (2-0) and Jund NicFit (2-0). I think you're correct Secretly, in that Supreme Verdict is much, much better in my specific meta than Council's Judgment would be, although I have the feeling that Council's Judgment may be correct to run in a more open, blind meta like an SCG Open.

[afb0032]

Went 3-0 again at my weekly, beating Tom Ross Infect (2-0), MUD (2-0) and Jund NicFit (2-0). I think you're correct Secretly, in that Supreme Verdict is much, much better in my specific meta than Council's Judgment would be, although I have the feeling that Council's Judgment may be correct to run in a more open, blind meta like an SCG Open.

Congrats and that's quite an eclectic mix of decks.

I recently picked up the deck and finally think I have found the legacy deck I should have been playing all along. The deck gives me everything I want out of magic. I went 3-0-1 at my local this week playing DnT, ANT, DnT, and drew with shardless bug (although played 1 game for fun which I won).

I'm currently playing the following list:

Lands
Polluted delta x4
Flooded strand x4
Marsh flats x1
Island x3
Plains x2
Swamp x1
Karakas x1
Scrubland x1
Underground sea x2
Tundra x3

Creatures
Snapcaster mage x3
Vendilion clique x3
Stoneforge mystic x4

Noncreatures
Jace, the mind sculptor x3
Lingering souls x2
Batterskull x1
Umezawa's jitte x1
Ponder x2
Counterspell x1
Brainstorm x4
Force of will x4
Swords to plowshares x4
Supreme verdict x1
Spell pierce x2
Council's judgement x1
Thoughtseize x2

Sideboard
Engineered explosives x1
Council's judgement x1
Pithing needle x2
Thoughtseize x2
Flusterstorm x2
Surgical extraction x3
Supreme verdict x1
Counterspell x1
Zealous persecution x2

I've been pretty happy with this list, although I may change the sideboard counterspell to a disenchant. Any suggestions are definitely welcome. My meta consists of mostly Tier 1 to 1.5 strategies.

[mdb1005]

So I've been playing Esper Stoneblade for about three years now and after a pretty long hiatus of playing RUG delver, Tin Fins, BUG Nic Fit, and a bunch of other random decks I decided to get back to my baby with some changes I really liked. I took some time off from the deck because the store I play at (Redcap's Corner in Philadelphia) has a really big miracles meta which is a rough match-up for me at least.

Last Wednesday I was able to ride this list to a 4-0 record. I really like the sideboard that I played using an Enlightened Tutor for silver bullets package.

Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

Instants and Sorceries
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will

Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
1 Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Spell Pierce
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere
2 Zealous Persecution

Round 1 vs. Merfolk
Game 1 he played a bunch of guys and killed me. Led with caverns on merfolk into a vial so that blanked the force I had and gave him the ability to flash in his lords in response to my discard spells as the game moved on. Swords'd a guy or two but ended up dying to True Name.

-4 FoW, + Explosives, + Det Sphere, +2 Zealous Persecutions. I know he isn't playing wasteland so I don't bother with spell pierces, he should be taking out dazes on the draw and Forces against fair match-ups

Game 2 he ends up with two True-Names in play and a Phantasmal Image copying one of them. Can't draw a persecution but a turn 5 engineered explosives activation cleans it up for my batterskull to finish him off over the next few turns.

Game 3 he mulligans to 5 and I have a hand full of discard spells. Yea.

Round 2 vs. Death and Taxes
Game 1 he opens with Mother into Thalia. I'm able to swords the mother before Thalia resolves. True-Name destroys this match-up while holding a SoFI.

-4 FoW, +Manriki, +2 Persecutions, + Explosives

Game 2 he is able to land a turn 2 SFM I can't answer and gets too far ahead even though we did have a really good, grindy game. Ended up with my only threat left being a Clique while he had a Karakas in play. Misplayed this game by searching up SoFI rather than Manriki (already had Jitte) which just got eaten by his Manriki.

Game 3 I make him discard some cards, a Thalia annoys me for a little but is better than the Mirran Crusader sitting in play. Eventually owl holding jitte kills him.

Round 3 vs. UR Delver
This is a good friend of mine so I know what I'm against
Game 1 I get a batterskull into play. Against burn. Hit my land drops while protecting my life total and plopped that sucker into play. Thanks SFM for pseudo gaining me 3 life.

-4 FoW, -3 Thoughtseize, +2 Enlightened Tutor, +CoP:Red, +Explosives, +3 Spell Pierce

Game 2 He opens with a delver, bolts my SFM, cliques away the CoP I tutored for, and Prices me for 6

Game 3 His turn 1 he plays a delver that doesn't flip, follows that with 2 more delvers. I'm dead right? Turn 3 no flip still. I play my explosives on turn 4 holding up spell pierce, I pierce his pierce and then take a one way trip to blowout city. I kill him with a TNN and Jitte while his hand is basically empty.

Top 8
Haven't played this guy before. Nice guy that said he was getting back into magic after having not played for a while.
Game 1 he's on Jund so he punishing fires my hopes and dreams away while my hand gets shredded. Bad match-up

-4 FoW, +2 Tutors, +CoP:Red, +Rest in Peace
Game 2 I make him discard his goyf and am happy to see he doesn't have any discard spells in hand. I swords his Bob and proceed to find Jace and fateseal him out of the game.

Game 3 I inquisition him seeing 2 goyfs, Lili and some other stuff I didn't care about. Take Lili and get pumped about the RiP in my hand. Turn two I slam RiP against the goyf he now has in play. Next turn I get Circle of Protection into play. His turn he sadly plays Pithing Needle on my Circle. He never finds the abrupt decay and I ride a combination of grumpy owls and merfolk assassin to win.

I end up learning that he took out his Thoughtseizes and brought in Pyroblasts in place of them... told him to keep them in for next week.

Top 4 split so we aren't there all night (this happens basically every week)

Only change I'm really thinking of is moving one FoW to the board and making the explosives main deck since I brought it in almost every match and it's insane with Academy Ruins.

[Sereon]

Hey guys!

I am very in to straight UW blade atm and it is doing great for me!

MD
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Snapcaster Mage

2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council’s Judgment

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

3 Mishra’s Factory
3 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas

SB
4 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte

The creature matchup is great with 3 Snappy and 2 Verdicts main + the Judgment, sometimes I play 2 Judgment, tends to adjust with my metagame. With quite many blue control decks in my meta such as UWx blade and Miracles (Even some BUG-still) SoFaI and SoFaF main over Jitte has been incredible for me! With 4 Nemesis main the powerlevel of swords is just so over the top its unreal! The only match ups where I really want Jitte are elves and gobbos. Two decks i rarely face in my meta.

Post board I have 4 Mages, 2 Cliques and 2 Fluster vs combo which feels really solid to go with the 3 pierce I play MD. Luminarchs Ascension is crazy vs miracles, I really suggest that one if you have problems with that matchup!

Hope you like it and feel free to comment and give feedback!

Peace!

[Arsenal]

I'm a big supporter of the straight UW Blade Control lists. I like the stable manabase, the maindeck Verdicts and countersuite, and the Mishra's Factories. I do have to question your decision to drop Jitte from the maindeck. Jitte is the equipment that heavily sways the game in our favor against some relevant decks; Elves, D&T, even other Blade decks, EtW tokens from TES/ANT, and then also a swath of tier 1.5/2 decks like Goblins, Deadguy Ale, etc. I like SoFaF in the side, Jitte main.

[Sereon]

I'm a big supporter of the straight UW Blade Control lists. I like the stable manabase, the maindeck Verdicts and countersuite, and the Mishra's Factories. I do have to question your decision to drop Jitte from the maindeck. Jitte is the equipment that heavily sways the game in our favor against some relevant decks; Elves, D&T, even other Blade decks, EtW tokens from TES/ANT, and then also a swath of tier 1.5/2 decks like Goblins, Deadguy Ale, etc. I like SoFaF in the side, Jitte main.

I do agree, I would never take 2 swords main to a larger tournament with unknown players. It has just been a very specific meta choice for me since I know what 90% of the locals are playing.

After extensive playtesting I want to cut 1 counterspell, maybe even 2. I feel like its a great card vs miracles but overall blade needs mana to lay down proactive threats. What do you think should replace it? Im thinking about third snappy, single clique (unlocks a slot in the board), or upping to 24 lands.

[useL]

How come this thread is deader than dead? If you guys want to try out my deck for a new experience then you are welcome to. I have played in a couple of tournaments and the winrate is about 80
% winrate in matches so far (about 20 matches played against all kind of decks)

Please do give comments and ideas. Cards I have allready considered and removed from the list: Venser, Shaper Savant, Spell Pierce, Rest in Peace, Counterbalance


2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis

SORCERIES (2)
2 Council’s Judgment

INSTANTS (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

ARTIFACTS (5)
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sensei’s Divining Top

LANDS (22)
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand

SIDEBOARD (15)
3 Meddling Mage
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Keranos, God of Storms

[resmaster]

Hey guys!

I know the thread is almost abandoned, but I believe some people still check it once in a while. So...
I wanted to play some control in legacy. I thought about Miracles, but it's kinda boring. Then I remembered the good old Stoneblade, which is quite nice with the gagas and stuff.

So, I'm working on a rough list and I want your opinion about a few things:
- The number of creature is enough? Is it too much?
- Is Elspeth still a nice choice?
- Should I cut black entirely and play straight UW with Mishra's Factories? I simply think that lingering souls is a huge card! hahaha (sadly, i currently do not own any U. Seas, that's why I'm playing with 2 Scrublands)
- Is 2 Jaces enough?

The list that looks like this:

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Lingering Souls

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Scrubland
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp

No SB yet

Thanks!

[gabelmeister]

Hey, i really liked the discussions here some time ago and I still think it's a great deck in the actual metagame.

I'm a big fan of the good old straight UW-list including 4 factories.

I would replace the lingering souls with another Snapcaster mage and Vendilion Clique.
So your creature count would be fine in both versions.

Elspeth is still a great card for this deck.
It just can do so much for our gameplan. Producing token you can equip, beating every other PW in a duel and it even can race.

If i were you i would definetly go for thr uw version, even if you would have some Useas ;)

I like 3 jace but i think 2 are fine too.

[TheArchitect]

Hey guys!

I know the thread is almost abandoned, but I believe some people still check it once in a while. So...
I wanted to play some control in legacy. I thought about Miracles, but it's kinda boring. Then I remembered the good old Stoneblade, which is quite nice with the gagas and stuff.

So, I'm working on a rough list and I want your opinion about a few things:
- The number of creature is enough? Is it too much?
- Is Elspeth still a nice choice?
- Should I cut black entirely and play straight UW with Mishra's Factories? I simply think that lingering souls is a huge card! hahaha (sadly, i currently do not own any U. Seas, that's why I'm playing with 2 Scrublands)
- Is 2 Jaces enough?

The list that looks like this:

-list-

You should run 2 MD back to basics. The card is nuts with a landbase like that. I own Seas, and play the below list. There are no budget cuts, in my experience this is the best esper control list.

21 Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Force of Will

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
3 Supreme Verdict

2 Lingering Souls
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Back to Basics

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:

2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize
1 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Notion Thief
1 Council's Judgment
1 Force of Will

Something similar to the above list, I have done well with. You have no MD black besides souls so you can fetch 2 Basic Plains, 2 Islands and cast all your spells, while being wasteland and B2B proof. Back to Basics is nuts. Espers worst matchups are the grindy GBx matchups. Basics wrecks them. Just cast it when they tap out and you usually win.

The 4 ponders are there because I value, consistency and being able to find 1/2-ofs when I need them. I think they are the right choice, but I would not hold it against anyone if they cut some ponders for a 22nd land, a 2nd MD judgment, a top, 4th FoW, or whatever. That said, if you are on a budget 4 ponders is going to be cheaper (and in my opinion better). I also am currently testing 2 Misdirections in the SB FoW and Council's Judgment slots to help against Hymn/Recall decks and blue based combo like Sneak and Show or High Tide.

[Arsenal]

Even with 8 cantrips, 21 lands seems far too low to support so many 3 and 4 drops. How has that manabase been treating you? I run 24 lands in my UW build and still run into mana issues occassionally.

[TheArchitect]

Even with 8 cantrips, 21 lands seems far too low to support so many 3 and 4 drops. How has that manabase been treating you? I run 24 lands in my UW build and still run into mana issues occassionally.

Its been fine. You are able to keep 1-2 land hands much more aggressively due to the ponders. I definitely get land screwed less with 21 lands and 4 ponders than with 23 lands and no ponders. The land fixing and mana demands are much more closer to that of 4 ponders UWr Miracles than UW stoneblade. You are basically a UW deck with only one colorless land (swamp). UW stoneblade, has more utility lands and factories to die to wasteland or not help you get UU or WW.

Compared to this UW landbase
3 Tundras
4 factories
1 Karakas
1 Ruins/Morland Haunt
4 Stands
4 U fetches
2 W fetches
3 Island
2 Plains

UW:
Lands that dont die to wasteland: 15
Make U: 16
Make W: 16

Esper B2B:
Lands that dont die to wasteland: 17
Make U: 17
Make W: 15
Make B: 13

You have more waste proof lands, more blue sources, and just 1 less white sources. In most fair matchups, you want 2 plains, 2 island by turn 4. 1 Swamp can come latter if you need it. In my list, fighting through wasteland, getting UU and WW is easier by turn 4.

Having factories is definitely awesome, but as far as meeting mana demands goes, my list does it better than UW stoneblade.

The 4 ponders also let you get away with doing stuff like using only 2 RIP, 2 B2B, 1-2 CJ, 2-3 board wipes, etc, but still seeing them much more frequently when you want them.

[lambert101]

Hey, I wanted to know everyones thoughts on the following list. I recently dropped the 4 Lighting Bolts and thought of going for a more traditional UW blade approach with red board options.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell

2 Council's Judgment

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

3 jace, the Mind Sculptor

2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
2 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains

Sideboard
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Blood Moon

My thoughts is to try and attack the greedy manabases of the GBX decks while still having game against miracles through red blast effects. Please feel free to comment and critique as this deck has been a fun work in progress.

[Chaam]

So I've picked up U/W Stoneblade for the Legacy GP in NJ in November.

Here is the list I am currently playing/testing/tweaking.

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (12)
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (2)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
6 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

The only real questionable cards are the 3rd MB Spell Pierce and the SB Venser, Shaper Savant imo. The Venser should probably just be a 2nd Enlightened Tutor or 2nd Path to Exile and the 3rd Spell Pierce could be anything from a Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Feast and Famine, 22nd land, 3rd Preordain, 2nd Counterspell, singleton Jace, the Mind Sculptor or even a singleton Path to Exile, etc.

Thoughts? Comments?

[rancOr_]

Some advice: I would play 3JAce for sure (cutting 2preordain and 1clique,but playing the 2nd one sb. U really want to play Jace in this deck. Besides that ur list looks pretty good. Here are some changes I'd make. I'd play a 2nd plains MD and a 11th fetch(cutting karakas and Island). Karakas is good, but it's not really needed if you just play 1clique MD. I know you play a venser too but I'd cut the venser from the sb. Also I like a 2nd Supreme verdict for a council's(playing the 2nd council side) since u really want 2 sweepers against a lot of decks(like UR Delver,...). I like your counter suite but it might be better to play 2spell pierce-2counterspell instead of 3-1. For the sideboard I can really recommend a sword of feast and famine in there. Hope this helped,good luck!

[Chaam]

Thanks for the advice!

I think I am going to play test two different lists before GP NJ. One with Enlightened Tutor and the other without.

w/o Enlightened Tutor Package

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (11)
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
6 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique


w/ Enlightened Tutor Package

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (10)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (4)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique


The only MB differences between the two is substituting an island for a plains since I will be bringing Back to Basics vs. a few matchups (Jund, BUG, RUG Delver, etc.) and Council's Judgment and Supreme Verdict are some of my better cards in those games and a singleton Sensei's Divining Top over a Preordain since it can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor in the games that I naturally draw my SB artifacts/enchantments. I also have a Venser, Shaper Savant that I kind of want to make room for in the SB.

[solidbass]

Personally, I would cut preordain, I know Treasure Cruise is awesome and all but 4 Ponder and 4 BS is pretty good already. Have you thought about splashing? Both red and black can be very powerful splashes that don't mess up your B2B plan if you wanna still do that (Joe Bernal did this resulting in great success). Thoughtseize+surgical=brutal or TS+snappy=more brutal. You also get access to my favorite card; Lingering Souls=most brutal. There's no better feeling then flashing this back and suiting one up to an empty Bskull. REB has probably never been more powerful if you want to go for the red splash. Don't forget Jace is an option! He's not as good as treasure cruise but he's still good against grindier matchups. Speaking of which, hows your game against miracles?

[TheArchitect]

There is basically no downside to splashing black or red. Adding 2 lands, a basic and nonbasic, or 2 nonbasics is all it takes to add something like lingering souls or red elemental blast and blood moon and make a HUGE difference in a lot of matchups. Also, yeah jace is too good to not run. I would probably cut the preordains for 2 jace, but 3 would be ideal.

[Chaam]

I don't think a black splash is worth anything since I think discard is pretty bad atm. I think a red splash could be useful for a couple of REB though. I just don't like how it shapes up with my B2B plan. I don't want to add a mountain but I could see adding 2 Volcanics in place of islands. I guess most blue matchups you don't want B2B anyways (besides BUG which has very few blue cards to begin with and RUG which B2B might be too slow).


As for Jace, you can't get away with 21 lands if you run him and I think TC does everything you want from Jace but better. I could see running 1-2 Jace if you go up to 22-23 lands and cut either preordain, a TC, or top. I still don't think he is all that great atm.

[TheArchitect]

I don't think a black splash is worth anything since I think discard is pretty bad atm. I think a red splash could be useful for a couple of REB though. I just don't like how it shapes up with my B2B plan. I don't want to add a mountain but I could see adding 2 Volcanics in place of islands. I guess most blue matchups you don't want B2B anyways (besides BUG which has very few blue cards to begin with and RUG which B2B might be too slow).


As for Jace, you can't get away with 21 lands if you run him and I think TC does everything you want from Jace but better. I could see running 1-2 Jace if you go up to 22-23 lands and cut either preordain, a TC, or top. I still don't think he is all that great atm.

Ive never had a problem running 21 lands and Jace. Miracles also does it all the time. Dont let the land count be the reason not to run jace. I don't think TC can replace jace entirely, although they do fill a similar role.

Splashing red gives you an upgrade to back to basics: bloodmoon and you dont need a basic mountain for it to be good. The matchups where B2B are the matchups where a resolved blood moon is usually game over.

[solidbass]

The benefits of Jace are against Miracles and the mirror plus other minor things you can't quite get with TC (unsummon) Jace's art is sweet too. Let's not forget the winning Deathblade list for SCG worcester still ran a Jace in the side.

Also, why isn't discard good? For one, i think it might be even better. People seem to be speculating that TC will make combo more prevalent because it will make decks slower. I have no idea whether or not this is true but if it is is discard will be another tool to fight it. I mean sure, we can't Thoughtseize the top of their deck but i hear "a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush".

[rancOr_]

Red is just the best splash color for UW atm. U only need 2-(3) volcanic isand MD and this lets u play 3 REB side, and even2 Blood Moon if you want.

[Firefight]

Hi,

I'm barely new to legacy and have heir a set of tundras from my friends, which allow me to join Legacy as I used to play modern and standard since World Wake, I was able to put up together the following list, and I wanted your opinion for this:

Lands

7 Fetchlands
4 Tundras
3 Islands
2 Plains
1 Karakas (borrowed)
1 Moorland Haunt
3 Mishra Factory
2 Wastelands

Creatures

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Geist of Saint-Traft
1 Vendillion Clique

Planewalkers

3 Jace, The mind sculptor

Inst and Sorc

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Force of Will
2 Spell pierce
2 Treasure Cruise
1 Counterspell
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement

Artifacts

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives

Suggestions? probably the numbers are not right, I will like you to help me to get this better . Thanks

[weaselface]

That's fairly close to a list I was recently playing. I'd say 6 three-drop creatures is more than you want. Maybe cut the two Geists for the fourth FOW and a second Supreme Verdict.

Also I would play only one copy of EE and replace Moorland Haunt with Academy Ruins. I would also play one or two more fetches for more delve fuel.

It would probably be worth testing if Dig Through Time is better for this deck than TC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firefight]

That's fairly close to a list I was recently playing. I'd say 6 three-drop creatures is more than you want. Maybe cut the two Geists for the fourth FOW and a second Supreme Verdict.

Also I would play only one copy of EE and replace Moorland Haunt with Academy Ruins. I would also play one or two more fetches for more delve fuel.

It would probably be worth testing if Dig Through Time is better for this deck than TC.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Treasure Cruise feels pretty natural as filling up the Graveyard does not require any extra effort. Dig seems appealing but double blue feels akward, I was even thinking on removing the counterspell for the fourth FoW.

2 EE seems about right with so many UR burn

[solidbass]

So I went 4-0-1 at a gpt a couple days ago with a pretty stock UWb list with 2 Treasure Cruise and 1 Dig Through Time main. My sb was stock as well except for an enlightened tutor as well as Helm of Obedience.

My matchups were:

Burn 2-0

I resolved an early stoneforge with FOW backup, batterskull got there. x2

Nic fit control? 2-0


These were some great games. We were discussing each others decks well before the tournament started so we knew what we were playing against. SFM was huge game one and coupled with a Treasure Cruise was nigh unbeatable. Game 2 was a grind fest and it ended with a Jace ultimate.

12 post 2-1

Game 1 ended with an eldrazi...of note though...he was on a treasure cruise build. Game 2 I got an early SFM to apply some pressure. Turn 5 he went to brainstorm and I made maybe the 2nd greatest play of the day; "in response, Notion Thief"? He was blown away and scooped a turn or 2 later. Game 3...I helmed him.

UR Delver 2-1
Game 1 was a classic SFM kill with batterskull. Game 2 I decided to bring in helm RIPx2 and enlightened tutor. However, as it turns out if your opponent is ancestral recalling and swinging for 5 every turn..you dont get there. game 3 I took out the RIPs and helm, leaving enlightened tutor so I could still get EE.
I managed to stabilize with a jitte'd up true name after ee'ing 3 swiftspears.

ID then to top 8

elves 2-0
this is probably my best matchup in general. ee+swords+jitte+verdict is just punishing to any elves player

at this point top 4 split the prizes and my opponent left since he wasn't going to the GP.

Last game UWr miracles 1-2
First game true name plus Lingering Souls get there and he never drew top.
2nd game turn 1 Top and i dont have a blue card for my FOW. i TS him and see REB jace counterbalance and i take CB. goes to his turn and...Counterbalance. Still no blue card. I manage to get some LS tokens but then he plays izzet staticaster. He resolves Jace and just durdles endlessly into a win. Game 3 I Thoughtseize see a similar hand and i take counterbalance again. He draws and plays...top. I have no blue card for my FOW..again. This game consists of me drawing RIPs and sfm to his V cliques. Didnt draw a blue card for my FOW till turn 8 or so...oh well such is variance.

In retrospect I'm not sure how good the helm combo is against miracles. It makes your deck so clunky at times when you need to be the aggressor plus I'm generally taking out TS and DTT for the combo and those cards potentially help me back into the game. Does anyone have an insight into the miracles matchup? It really seems beatable but I'm just at a loss for sbing as well as approaching the matchup appropriately.

My overperformers were as follows SFM..duh. Lingering Souls. TS and DTT. I want to stress LS though as this card is just so awesome and I recommend to any esper player to try 2 copies main. Of note is it's at least 2 bodies, can't be REB'ed and the souls can function as great blockers.

Also REB is a beating and a half. I'm thinking about Hydroblast or BEB to help against all these red spells I'm seeing.

If anyone wants to see my full list I can post it too.

[Higgs]

So I went 4-0-1 at a gpt a couple days ago with a pretty stock UWb list with 2 Treasure Cruise and 1 Dig Through Time main. My sb was stock as well except for an enlightened tutor as well as Helm of Obedience.

List please :)?

[solidbass]

List please :)?

Sure thing

Creatures:

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True Name Nemesis
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendillion Clique

Instants and Sorceries:

2 Lingering Souls
2 Treasure Cruise
2 Thoughtseize
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dig through Time
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell

Other:

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands:
4 Islands
2 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
4 Flooded Strand
1 Karakas
1 Wasteland

SB:
2 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Pithing Needle
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Thoughtseize
1 Flusterstorm
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Notion Thief
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

[somethingdotdotdot]

In testing, I've found treasure cruise to be very subpar for this deck--drawing 3 card is nice, but the card selection of dig through time just far outweigh the merits of having an extra card. I personally think that in grindy decks like this, tc is worse than just playing your own sensei's top. Top virtually is a +3 hand size that you can readjust with fetchlands over the course of a game.

I struggle a lot versus miracles preboard, but the matchup definitely feels favored postboard. Since esper isn't a very popular deck, they don't really dedicate much space for us--maybe an extra council's judgment, clique and/or wear//tear. I run a slightly unorthodox list, but from my mb, I usually board out 1x jitte, 2x baleful strix, 4x swords to plowshares, 1x supreme verdict, 1x thoughtseize for 1x ee, 2x pithing needle, 1x sofaf, 1x etutor, 2x spell pierce, 2x meddling mages. I basically do everything to keep them off of their top--without top, the deck is really quite clunky as they can't reliably control their miracle triggers , use counterbalance, and find answers. Meddling mage usually names terminus then swords/pyroblast/reb/entreat depending on the situation. The overall strategy that I've found to be best is to make them trade 1 for 1 while denying their top and they'll eventually run out of removal for all of your threats. The rip/helm combo is just really bad versus miracles because it shuts down your own graveyard which gives you a lot of card advantage--snapcaster, souls, ruins, dtt-- while each piece is just dead by itself.

[solidbass]

I still struggle to answer the question DTT vs TC, so I went with a split. Every time I resolved one of these, I won so unfortunately it's still inconclusive as to which one is better. I get the whole "selecting 2 from 7 is better than draw 3" but honestly Stoneblade has such powerful cards gaining any card advantage is back breaking against any deck.

For me, preboard I'd say it's maybe 45-55 favoring them, but afterwards they get to board in like 30 REBs, needles and wear//tear. However, I think overall more testing on my part needs to be done against miracles since I struggle to find people who play the deck to test with me. Plus testing against miracles is like watching paint dry. :tongue:

[Firefight]

Hi everyone I have rebuild my decklist and now I feel happy with it, I only need some real test against tier1 decks and absolutely your advices :)

Mana Base

24 Lands

3 Mishra Factory
2 Wastelands
4 Tundra
3 Islands
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heat
2 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins

12 Creatures

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Venser Sharper Savant

3 Planewalkers

3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor

18 Instant and Sorc

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgment
1 Counterspell

3 Artifacts

1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard

1 Supreme Verdict
1 Detention Sphere
4 Meddling Mage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Flustterstorm
1 Divert
1 Envelopment

All the comments are well received and appreciated , thanks

[solidbass]

In my experience spell snare isn't great, also 3 equipment in the main probably isn't necessary. I love Venser, but what is he good in? I like him against BUG control type stuff but other than that he seems to slow or is very vulnerable to being REBed. Also, 1 Treasure Cruise? It's ancestral recall! I was at 4 then worked my way down to 2 plus a DTT. The new delve cards are scary good. It took UR delver a tier 1.5 deck to essentially the DTB in a single month. (Swiftspear helped too but it wouldnt be a thing without TC)
Your mana might be a bit off too. With many of your permanents costing double blue and only 4 fetches for basic blue i could see it being a problem. However, wasteland does seem to be on the downtrend so you might be able to get away with it. Mishra's and wastes could be ok in your meta but personally splashing for red or black gives you such a range of great cards.

[Firefight]

In my experience spell snare isn't great, also 3 equipment in the main probably isn't necessary. I love Venser, but what is he good in? I like him against BUG control type stuff but other than that he seems to slow or is very vulnerable to being REBed. Also, 1 Treasure Cruise? It's ancestral recall! I was at 4 then worked my way down to 2 plus a DTT. The new delve cards are scary good. It took UR delver a tier 1.5 deck to essentially the DTB in a single month. (Swiftspear helped too but it wouldnt be a thing without TC)
Your mana might be a bit off too. With many of your permanents costing double blue and only 4 fetches for basic blue i could see it being a problem. However, wasteland does seem to be on the downtrend so you might be able to get away with it. Mishra's and wastes could be ok in your meta but personally splashing for red or black gives you such a range of great cards.

Do you think is safe to remove the Venser, Spell Snare for 1 TC and 1 DTT ?

I'm working towards the manabase, maybe leaving 2 Marsh Flats and get 2 polluted deltas in exchange of windswepth

I want to leave it UW because I have other decks that uses Underground sea, and only 1 Scrubland and some swamps would not be efficient to make it esper

[solidbass]

Do you think is safe to remove the Venser, Spell Snare for 1 TC and 1 DTT ?

I'm working towards the manabase, maybe leaving 2 Marsh Flats and get 2 polluted deltas in exchange of windswepth

I want to leave it UW because I have other decks that uses Underground sea, and only 1 Scrubland and some swamps would not be efficient to make it esper

I'd say do it. Venser hasn't been great especially with the new UR deck, it's fast. Burn is a thing too. He's great in a grind fest but if you wanna utilize karakas more and go for a legendary thing, another clique in the main might help.

Honestly, both TC and DTT are very powerful. I personally run a 2 TC / 1 DTT split but I think any combination is fine but the overall number of these delve cards, at least in my testing, should be 3. When I did decide to run these delve cards some of the first things I took out were counterspells, namely Spell Snare and Counterspell itself.

Yup, right on with marsh flats and Polluted deltas. So actually all you need is another Underground Sea and the splash is complete. 1 Scrubland, 1 swamp and 1 underground sea is enough for a splash. (assuming fetches are correct)

Red is a great idea for a splash as well. With Legacy being bluer then ever REB's value increases tremendously.

As an aside...Why not sleeve all your cards in the same sleeve? I do this for my modern and legacy deck plus my cube. It can be a pain at times but it's still way easier than having to transfer your cards from sleeve to sleeve.

[Firefight]

I'd say do it. Venser hasn't been great especially with the new UR deck, it's fast. Burn is a thing too. He's great in a grind fest but if you wanna utilize karakas more and go for a legendary thing, another clique in the main might help.

Honestly, both TC and DTT are very powerful. I personally run a 2 TC / 1 DTT split but I think any combination is fine but the overall number of these delve cards, at least in my testing, should be 3. When I did decide to run these delve cards some of the first things I took out were counterspells, namely Spell Snare and Counterspell itself.

Yup, right on with marsh flats and Polluted deltas. So actually all you need is another Underground Sea and the splash is complete. 1 Scrubland, 1 swamp and 1 underground sea is enough for a splash. (assuming fetches are correct)

Red is a great idea for a splash as well. With Legacy being bluer then ever REB's value increases tremendously.

As an aside...Why not sleeve all your cards in the same sleeve? I do this for my modern and legacy deck plus my cube. It can be a pain at times but it's still way easier than having to transfer your cards from sleeve to sleeve.

I took the wastelands away and added the 4th Mishra and one more fetch, removed Venser , spell snare and added 2TC and 1 DTT, using Mishra is one of the things that currently keep me away from the black splash.

I noticed this deck was a deck to beat a year ago, Ty Thomason List is what I aiming to and start from.

[weaselface]

Straight U/W you get to play B2B in the sideboard. It's not quite as good ad Blood Moon but it's good. I'd really try to fit the fourth FoW somewhere in the 75. Also I like 3 Pierces with all the delve spells flying around.

Without the EE I don't like Academy Ruins too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firefight]

Straight U/W you get to play B2B in the sideboard. It's not quite as good ad Blood Moon but it's good. I'd really try to fit the fourth FoW somewhere in the 75. Also I like 3 Pierces with all the delve spells flying around.

Without the EE I don't like Academy Ruins too much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The problem with EE is that Sunburst of 2 is not the way I want to be, I need to get Back to basics :D

3 pierces seems good for now I will test 2 and 1 spell snare

[solidbass]

The problem with EE is that Sunburst of 2 is not the way I want to be, I need to get Back to basics :D

3 pierces seems good for now I will test 2 and 1 spell snare

Yeah EE is best when you get it to 3 Sunburst. Although, even at 2 it's still quite effective but it doesn't hit liliana or True Name aka Great Stabilizers.
My issue with B2B right now is REB. It's everywhere and it's damn good. I'll admit my analysis is based on pure conjecture but has anyone tested it in the current meta?

Spell Pierce seems pretty solid right now. The winning Deathblade list from a few weeks ago ran 3 in the main.

What do you guys think about elspeth? I know getting to 4 mana can be a bit of a pain but she has a fewthings going for her.
1.) Can't be Reb'd.
2.) Good against miracles (my worst matchup that's common to play against)
3.) Beats Jace (arguably not as awesome as he once but elspeth would be great in the mirror)
4.) Can't be decayed ( I haven't seen too many Decays around but I know they're there, BUG delver is still putting up results)
5.) Was in the SB of the UWR delver scg champ last week.

[Chaam]

I played a UW Stoneblade list at a ~50 person GPT for NJ with 6 rounds followed by a cut to top 8. I ended up taking the entire thing down by going 4-2 in the swiss (went 3-0 initially and didn't drop a game up until round 4) and clinching 8th through breakers (there were a ton of 4-2s). I then beat the 1 seed (the round 4 opponent that I lost to) and went on to win the whole thing.

I'll post my list later. My record was:

Round 1: Nic Fit (2-0)
Round 2: Punishing Jund (2-0)
Round 3: D&T (2-0)
Round 4: Elves (1-2)
Round 5: Sneak & Show (0-2)
Round 6: Burn (2-1)

Top 8
Quarterfinals: Elves (2-0) [Round 4 Opponent]
Semifinals: RUG Delver (2-1)
Finals: D&T (2-1)

[Firefight]

I played a UW Stoneblade list at a ~50 person GPT for NJ with 6 rounds followed by a cut to top 8. I ended up taking the entire thing down by going 4-2 in the swiss (went 3-0 initially and didn't drop a game up until round 4) and clinching 8th through breakers (there were a ton of 4-2s). I then beat the 1 seed (the round 4 opponent that I lost too) and went on to win the whole thing.

I'll post my list later. My record was:

Round 1: Nic Fit (2-0)
Round 2: Punishing Jund (2-0)
Round 3: D&T (2-0)
Round 4: Elves (1-2)
Round 5: Sneak & Show (0-2)
Round 6: Burn (2-1)

Top 8
Quarterfinals: Elves (2-0) [Round 4 Opponent]
Semifinals: RUG Delver (2-1)
Finals: D&T (2-1)


Well , can you share your list with us?

[Chaam]

The list I used to take down the GPT:

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (10)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (16)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (4)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique

As for changes, I think the MD is pretty solid. I could see placing the Sword of Feast and Famine in the SB and replacing it with a 2nd Preordain or another piece of cheap interaction (maybe a singleton Misdirection or a 3rd Spell Pierce?). I really liked the SB as it gives you a ton of options for games 2 and 3. However, I think I want to make room for a 2nd Enlightened Tutor and 2 copies of the new Containment Priest from the Commander set (Comes in vs. Sneak & Show, Reanimator, Dredge, Elves and has some random utility vs. any GSZ/Dryad Arbor deck such as Maverick). The first cut is spell pierce but I am unsure of what the other two cuts should be. Possibly Surgical Extraction and something else? Although I am a little scared of Dredge/Reanimator being slightly too fast for Containment Priest.

[solidbass]

The list I used to take down the GPT:

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (10)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (16)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (4)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Batterskull

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Flusterstorm
1 Spell Pierce
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique

As for changes, I think the MD is pretty solid. I could see placing the Sword of Feast and Famine in the SB and replacing it with a 2nd Preordain or another piece of cheap interaction (maybe a singleton Misdirection or a 3rd Spell Pierce?). I really liked the SB as it gives you a ton of options for games 2 and 3. However, I think I want to make room for a 2nd Enlightened Tutor and 2 copies of the new Containment Priest from the Commander set (Comes in vs. Sneak & Show, Reanimator, Dredge, Elves and has some random utility vs. any GSZ/Dryad Arbor deck such as Maverick). The first cut is spell pierce but I am unsure of what the other two cuts should be. Possibly Surgical Extraction and something else? Although I am a little scared of Dredge/Reanimator being slightly too fast for Containment Priest.

I like the construction of your SB and the synergies with Enlightend Tutor. With TC being in the deck there's very little lost losing a card. I would personally shave sword of FaF, 3 equipment just seems like too much. Ponder seems to be a pretty popular thing right now but I feel like it just adds a lot of fluff. What were your experiences with it?
Generally speaking surgical seems to be great for a+b combo decks (SneaknShow, Reanimator etc.) I've personally been running into less of these decks as of late and I've gone down to 1 and I'm thinking about cutting it altogether.
How was Top in the deck? I've been thinking about a singleton for myself for quite some time.

[Chaam]

As of right now the only changes I am planning on making before the GP will be to replace the SB Spell Pierce and Surgical Extraction for a 2nd Enlightened Tutor and a singleton Containment Priest.

[Chaam]

I'm liking Ponder a lot. It allows you to cut a land going down to 21, fuel Treasure Cruise and allows you to find the interaction/answers/threats you need every game. It is literally the glue that holds my deck together imo. Especially with my SB strategy of having a bunch of 1-ofs or 2-ofs postboard. I wouldn't leave home without it.

The top was originally a second preordain. But, the top has been absolutely fantastic. Originally it was just so I had a tutor target if I naturally drew my sb cards or if I didn't have a specific card that I wanted atm. You would be surprised how often you find it with all the cantrips in the deck and it actually lets you take over the game. I also won a game where I went island top and my opponent ended up brainstorming away 2 removal spells and then I just landed SFM and won. Obv he thought I was playing miracles.

So far the only changes I've made is to remove the SB Spell Pierce for a 2nd Enlightened Tutor. I will probably replace the Surgical with a Containment Priest once it comes out too.

I am pretty sure I want the 3rd Spell Pierce MB but I am not sure whether I want to cut the singleton Preordain, the 2nd Counterspell or the SoFaF.

I am going to be testing/tweaking the following list until the GP. Main things I am looking at is the SoFaF, 2nd Counterspell, singleton Preordain, 2nd Containment Priest and the SB Council's Judgement.

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (10)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise

Instants (17)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (3)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Flusterstorm
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique

[solidbass]

I think I'm gonna try the Top as a fun of. What decks did it play well against? It seems like it would be too slow against UR Delver or other delver variants especially since youre not digging for Terminus . It seems good against Miracles but personally I bring in Pithing needles against them to name Top.

What is your view of the metagame for the GP? I think Bob Huang did a great job analyzing the meta and has a nice report on channelfireball.

[Chaam]

I think I'm gonna try the Top as a fun of. What decks did it play well against? It seems like it would be too slow against UR Delver or other delver variants especially since youre not digging for Terminus . It seems good against Miracles but personally I bring in Pithing needles against them to name Top.

What is your view of the metagame for the GP? I think Bob Huang did a great job analyzing the meta and has a nice report on channelfireball.

Top is just pretty good vs. everything. You have a lot of shuffle effects between Ponder, SFM and 10 Fetches. It let's you dig and find your 1-ofs and 2-ofs both pre and post board. It isn't too slow vs. U/R Delver imo. Maybe game 1 on the draw it might be a bit slow but it has been fine so far. In testing it has basically won me games vs. U/R Delver. It's good vs. Miracles game 1 but I think you take it out game 2 and 3 for Tutor + Needle most of the time.

I have two byes so hopefully I get to skip some of the random jank in the early rounds. But, I want to be prepared for U/R Delver, Burn, Miracles, Combo in general (focus on Dredge, Reanimator, Sneak & Show, Elves and ANT). My deck already has a good matchup vs. Jund and other Stoneblade decks. The Shardless BUG matchup may be tough? I don't know since I haven't played it.

So far I have practiced vs. and think I am covered for Jund, Stoneblade, Burn and 3 Color Delver decks. I am also fairly confident in the Dredge, Reanimator and Elves matchups.

I have played Miracles twice and beaten it both times but it is a pretty even matchup imo. Sneak & Show has been difficult but it mainly revolves around me finding Karakas, Pithing Needle & Counter magic but I think my newest configuration gives me a few more % points vs them. I've only played U/R Delver a couple of times and it seems very winnable but not necessarily favored, I think my current strategy is wrong and I will be doing some extensive testing next week vs. my friend who is going to be playing the deck at the GP. I think my most recent SB strategy vs. them may be better. I haven't played ANT yet but I think I should be able to do well vs. them with my current MB configuration and the SB tools that I will be bringing in.

[Qweerios]

Personally I don't like the TC approach in reactive Blade control decks. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is absolutely broken but I don't like the way it influences deck construction in a control deck. First, TC forces the deck to play additional Sorcery speed cantrips instead of more lands. This leads to more unnecessary dilemmas such as choosing between cantripping into your 2nd, 3rd or 4th land drop or leaving mana open for reactive spells. Another way that you are forced to play the proactive game is by forcing you to fill your graveyard as fast as possible because you need to cast TC for its cheapest possible cost since it is cast only at Sorcery speed. DTT, however, has better synergy with the rest of the deck because it uses unused mana left open EoT to fuel an instant speed DTT instead of relying solely on the GY to smooth out the casting cost. Also, you can't really compare 3 cards off the top with 2 of your top 7. In a reactive control deck packing very few copies of essential answers/threats, having a wider selection is more important than having more cards. We win by playing a different game than the rest of the field because we have access to the most powerful and definitive control cards ever printed, all we need is to reliably find them in time. Overall I think TC pales in comparison to DTT in every Blade deck packing "non-free" counterspells > discard.

[Chaam]

Personally I don't like the TC approach in reactive Blade control decks. Don't get me wrong, I think TC is absolutely broken but I don't like the way it influences deck construction in a control deck. First, TC forces the deck to play additional Sorcery speed cantrips instead of more lands. This leads to more unnecessary dilemmas such as choosing between cantripping into your 2nd, 3rd or 4th land drop or leaving mana open for reactive spells. Another way that you are forced to play the proactive game is by forcing you to fill your graveyard as fast as possible because you need to cast TC for its cheapest possible cost since it is cast only at Sorcery speed. DTT, however, has better synergy with the rest of the deck because it uses unused mana left open EoT to fuel an instant speed DTT instead of relying solely on the GY to smooth out the casting cost. Also, you can't really compare 3 cards off the top with 2 of your top 7. In a reactive control deck packing very few copies of essential answers/threats, having a wider selection is more important than having more cards. We win by playing a different game than the rest of the field because we have access to the most powerful and definitive control cards ever printed, all we need is to reliably find them in time. Overall I think TC pales in comparison to DTT in every Blade deck packing "non-free" counterspells > discard.

I think this approach should be considered especially when we play actual counterspell and a lot of 1-ofs and 2-ofs through out the 75. I could see dropping the 3 Cruise for 3 digs and some of the cantrips for stronger spells (the preordain for a 22nd land, 3 ponders for a 3rd counterspell, 3rd true-name nemesis and a 2nd vendilion clique or even a 23rd land, etc. etc.).

It is def worth trying out. Although I have put in a pretty good amount of time into my current build and I am not sure if I want to completely revamp it before the GP. At this point, I think would rather make small tweaks to my list for the GP and try playing a more Dig centric approach after the GP. But, I'll keep it in mind and I may change my mind before the GP depending on how further testing goes.


If anyone is interested, if I were to go the dig approach I would try the following: cut 3 Cruise, Preordain, 4 Ponder, 2 True-Name for 3 Digs, 2 lands, a counterspell, Venser, Vendilion, Snapcaster, SoFaI.

[Chaam]

I tested 10 games vs. my friend who is on a stock UR Delver list for the GP. The first 5 pre-board games I went 2-3 but in the 5 post-board games I went 4-1. Preboard is unfavorable but not unwinnable and post board is favorable but ends up being grindy and long. I am feeling pretty confident in the UR Delver matchup going into the GP, I am just worried that I won't be able to finish games 2 or 3 within the given time restraints.

[solidbass]

So I did extensive testing against BUG aggro recently and it is a beating. He was packing 4 stifle as well. I'm not sure how common this card is for BUG, but with me running more fetchlands it's a rough time. He was also running TC with goyf and deathrite. After he cruised Goyf was either bigger or the same size, I guess a 4/5 for 2 is a good deal. Any tips on this matchup? Anyone think BUG and/or stifle will be a big problem at the GP?

After running 2+ cruises for so long I think I'm gonna go for 2-3 DTT and take out thoughtseizes for reactive spells. TC is great n all but I think I ended playing a lot more tempo then I wanted to. Since I'm still running Jace I will always have something to dig for as opposed to just pure velocity that TC gives you.

So I've played against UR delver maybe 6 or 7 times and I've only lost the matchup once. I thank 2 EE mainboard for this as well as Lingering Souls. It holds them back for so many turns and lets me play jitte and/or batterskull. Sure they get to draw 3 cards every turn but they never stabilize.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So my meta is incredibly prepared for Deathrite and Midrange in general. I stopped DeathBlade as soon as I picked it back up. I need more control, so back to Blade Control I am. UW, no splash. Here's my list I'll be practicing with until next month's Legacy Win-A-Box.

Creatures:
4 SFM
2 SCM
1 Clique
3 TNN

Spells:
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgement
2 Supreme Verdict
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Land:
1 Moorland Haunt
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Mystic Gate
1 Karakas
2 Plains
3 Island
1 Celestial Colonnade
3 Tundra
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath

If you like the list but don't like 61 cards, drop a Ponder. I prefer the 3rd ponder. I feel it to be more consistent with 61 than with 2 ponders and 60 cards.

-ABC

[GreenShorty]

(...)
I'll post my list later. My record was:

Round 2: Punishing Jund (2-0)
(...)

Do you have any suggestion regarding that matchup? Jund is my current nemesis. :tongue:

[Chaam]

Do you have any suggestion regarding that matchup? Jund is my current nemesis. :tongue:

I find that surprising. We have some very resilient threats (True-Name, SFM + Skull) while also having a CA engine in Treasure Cruise. This matchup seems to be favorable pre-board and lopsided post-board with the addition of Back to Basics and more relevant cards in replace of FoW and Spell Pierce. Although, I have only played the matchup twice but both times went 2-0. It is possible I just drew well.

[solidbass]

I've only played the Jund matchup a few times but in my experience preboard it's important to watch out for Punishing Fire. Clique it away if you can. Otherwise it comes down to stabilizing with True Name Nemesis with equipment attached to it. Postboard RIP is simply great against them, B2B is good too. Pithing needles and meddling mages also have some pretty good targets as well.

I love the list Secretly a bee. It's looks very fun to pilot and the one of Elspeth in the main is nice. Deathblade doesn't seem to well positioned right now with all the burn and UR delver going with price of progress n such.

What do you guys think of the maverick matchup? I jammed a couple games and the only way to win for certain is TNN. Maze of Ith is just diesel and my buddy was also playing Tower of the Magistrate which was just crippling at times. Postboard I think there's a lot of great things to bring in against them. I only bring up the deck because I have heard people talking about it and how it's well positioned in the meta right now.

[Chaam]

Played my list yesterday at a weekly Legacy tournament but with 3 Dig Through Time instead of Treasure Cruise and it felt much stronger. We ended up having 51 people! I guess everyone is prepping for the GP. Anyways, I ended up going 3-0-1. My tie was vs. UWR Stoneblade in the first match (Rudy Briksza's exact list from his Open win piloted by someone whom I consider to be one of the best/most knowledgeable legacy players at our LGS) where I had lethal on turn 6 so I'm counting it as a 4-0 day haha

Anyways my matches were:

Round 1: (1-1-1) UWR Stoneblade (Rudy's Open winning list)
Round 2: (2-0) Death & Taxes
Round 3: (2-1) Enchantress
Round 4: (2-0) UWR Delver

Dig Through Time was absolutely fantastic all day and greatly outperformed Treasure Cruise in my list. Dig Through Time compliments my plan of having so many high impact 1 and 2 ofs between the MB and SB. I also have a lot of counter magic which is more synergistic with Dig.

The UWR Stoneblade lists have REB which is pretty good in the "mirror" but they also have cards like Lightning Bolt while we have Ponder, Preordain and Top. I felt I was just doing more than he was and finding my Digs/Threats/Answers earlier than him while fueling Digs and having them go off before him. The matchup really hinged on True-Name and Jace. But True-Name trumps Jace and he had only 1 Council's Judgement in his 75 while I had 2 of them alongside 2 Supreme Verdict so he had trouble just winning games. I was considering the red splash before but now I believe that it isn't needed or improves the deck.

I was also happy to beat Enchantress. I played it last week with my version with less Spell Pierce and with Treasure Cruises adn it was a nightmare. It was still difficult this time around but much more manageable. Dig just allows you to play the long control game and counter their relevant spells. Btw, Ethersworn Canonist is really dumb in the matchup. They get to draw as many cards as they want off their enchantress but they are only playing 1 spell a turn to your 1 counter a turn. With having a virtual 3 copies of them alongside multiple cantrips/card draw and counters I believe the matchup is actually slightly favorable postboard.

For reference, here is my latest list (I am 99% sure this is what I will be registering at GP NJ, I may find room for a 2nd Containment Priest though).

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (7)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict

Instants (20)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Dig Through Time

Artifacts (3)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Flusterstorm
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Vendilion Clique

[solidbass]

Love the list Chaam. I'm still UWb spashing for Lingering Souls and better EEs also Thoughtseizes in the board. I too have gone 3 DTT after taking out thoutseizes and adding more counters. It's just such a good card and plays to the Stoneblade plan so much better than Treasure Cruise. Brizka's list looks a bit scary to play against honestly. Did anyone see the straight UW list that got 9th? Vedalken shackles main. Very spicy list.

[HSCK]

Another GP win for Blade, but unsure how to classify BBD's deck really.

[Chaam]

So I ended up having a 3-0 start at GP NJ but quickly lost my next 3 games before dropping. Before I give up on UW Stoneblade (and splash black or red), I want to try a much more control centric version. I am not a fan of the high velocity shell the UWR Stoneblade lists have adopted (basically UWR Delver w/o Delver or UR Delver w/ Stoneforge).

What I've noticed is that even though people are drawing more cards with the Delve twins the quality of those cards are fairly low. I think I want to return to the "I have more trump cards like True-Name Nemesis, Snaps, Equipment and Jace than you" game plan.

I am going to start trying out the following list starting Monday:

Creatures (12)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (6)
4 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict

Instants (15)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
6 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Disenchant
3 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull

[Chaam]

I figured out what I am going to do with this deck. I'll be playing this as soon as I get back from a Thanksgiving trip:

Creatures (12)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

Sorceries (7)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment

Instants (15)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will

Artifacts (2)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Planeswalkers (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

Sideboard (15)
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Path to Exile
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
2 Containment Priest
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull

[matunos]

FWIW, this is my current incarnation of Jeskai Stoneblade I've been playing for a couple weeks after deciding Deathblade wasn't well positioned in the current metagame (I've found you're left way behind if you can't keep a Deathrite on the board early; and you rarely can). It's only been in some 4-round LGS weeklies so far, so I don't want to extrapolate too much based on limited results, but here's the list:


1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Academy Ruins
3 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:

1 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Wear // Tear
2 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Surgical Extraction


I should have some Containment Priests to fit into the sideboard soon (pushing probably Firewalker and a card yet to be determined [maybe Manriki?] out), and I'm also considering if Tormod's Crypt would be a better grave-hate card (bonus is that it's recyclable with Ruins). Probably depends on what kind of graveyard-based decks I want to prepare for.

I'm still happy with Dig Through Time over Treasure Cruise in this deck as I'm more comfortable being reactive, but I haven't actually tested Cruise in this shell.

[gabelmeister]

Could you guys tell me if the strict uw stonebladelist with some factories and moorland haunt is still a good choicr in the meta right now?

[Manipulato]

Hey Guys,

I finished 5:0 in 1st place at our last local legacy turney.

Wanted to share my list with you which I will play this Saturday again:

Maindeck: 60 Cards10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte

20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas

Sideboard: 15 Karten
2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Electrickery
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sword of Fire & Ice

My MU´s were:

Round 1 UWRb Blade (With YP+Therapy+Zealous Persecution Tech in the SB): Won 2:0
Round 2 RUG Delver: Won 2:0
Round 3 Elves: Won 2:1
Round 4 Sneak Show: Won 2:0
Round 5 BW Deadguy: Won 2:0

The deck was a blast to play and Dig through time was just super flexible and finds the right card at the right time when needed.
I know 4 TNN are very unuasual but I really like it! I played with that configuration in my Deathblade too and it was never ever a problem and I never wished it was something different.
Before TC I had a split between 2 Vendilion Clique and 2 TNN but in the current meta we need a resilent, strong beater to finish the game. Also the meta is currently full of Bolts, Swords, Red Blast`s and Clique die´s to just everything...
I really like the 2:2:2 Splitt between Snare/Pierce/CS too because it gives you flexible answers to different questions.

[dionykos]

@Manipulato:
I'm currently testing something similar, and liked it so far as a way to beat UR. There are two notable differences though:
- I'm playing 3 top and 3 counterbalance in your 6 countermagic slots.
- I've been prefering TC over DTT after testing both, mainly because I've won most of the games where I TC'd first, and TC is easier to cast and to chain.

These differences are coming directly from Bob Huang (Akatsuki on TheSource)'s 75 and its transformational sideboard, where he's siding out Delver and Daze for 3 top and 3 counterbalance. I'm basically playing his post-board deck. Imho counterbalance is much better positionned than Pierce/Snare/Counterspell at the moment.

I am also playing 4 Nemesis, mainly because the deck is threat-light and needs something that sticks on the board. I found that the one thing missing in this deck is a sweeper, or at least something better than bolt in the control role (sudden shock may be a viable option, and it also helps the curve for counterbalance).

Happy to share test results if you ever decide to try counterbalance. Or if you have arguments in favor of countermagic that makes me switch.

[Manipulato]

@Manipulato:
I'm currently testing something similar, and liked it so far as a way to beat UR. There are two notable differences though:
- I'm playing 3 top and 3 counterbalance in your 6 countermagic slots.
- I've been prefering TC over DTT after testing both, mainly because I've won most of the games where I TC'd first, and TC is easier to cast and to chain.

These differences are coming directly from Bob Huang (Akatsuki on TheSource)'s 75 and its transformational sideboard, where he's siding out Delver and Daze for 3 top and 3 counterbalance. I'm basically playing his post-board deck. Imho counterbalance is much better positionned than Pierce/Snare/Counterspell at the moment.

I am also playing 4 Nemesis, mainly because the deck is threat-light and needs something that sticks on the board. I found that the one thing missing in this deck is a sweeper, or at least something better than bolt in the control role (sudden shock may be a viable option, and it also helps the curve for counterbalance).

Happy to share test results if you ever decide to try counterbalance. Or if you have arguments in favor of countermagic that makes me switch.

Hi,
it`s a personal preference of mine. I don`t really like Countertop because it`s quite slow and a single Counterbalance is quite useless. It also slows down the game speed and you have to think a lot which is a bit exhausting in bigger/longer events. The 2/2/2 split between Snare/Pierce/CS gives us a lot of flexibility and speed, because we can interact on T1+T2 no matter if were OtD or OtP. Especially Snare is very powerful right now because of SFM, YP, SCM, Balance etc...

In my list with so many reactive Counterspells I want to hold up mana for the opponents turn, so in a counter heavy build like mine I think DTT is much smoother than TC and I really love the fact that you always get what you want he most. It´s really not rare that I make DTT into TNN + SFM which is just super sweet and strong. TC gives you sometimes just land, Pierce, Ponder or whatever...

By the way here is my last finish. After going 5:0 on the last turney it did not worked this fine again for me.

Round 1 ANT (Good Player): Lost 0:2 (I had a counter heavy hand in both games but he had always probe, therapy, Duress and my SFM into BS was just to slow, his Ad Nauseam in game 2 with 10 life showed him in the top 4 cards -> Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Infernal Tutor :laugh: )

Round 2 Elves: Won 2:0

Round 3 MUD: Lost 0:2 (No chance against this deck! I had no great hand in both games with a mulligan but without Wasteland, Daze or a fast clock no way it`s very rough, even a Sword on his Metalworker and a CS on his grim monolith was not enough to stop his machines from killing me, he had very good and fast hands)

Round 4 UWb Miracles: Won 2:1

Round 5 RW Rogue: Won 2:0

So 3:2 :rolleyes:

The deck felt great again but against unfair decks like Storm you miss the early pressure with creatures like Delver or Goyf + Disruption. Only Counterspells & Hatebears will not win the game, but well that`s not UWR Delver :wink:

I think MUD or Stompy decks in general are a very bad MU for us because we have no way to disrupt they`re fragile manabase and always have to keep up mana for CS, Daze would have been great here....But well it`s no UWR Delver again :laugh:

Maybe I will give UWR Delver a chance for the upcoming turney...We will see...The deck is just super solid against any fair deck...

Greetings

[dionykos]

You are right about DTT, it does make sense with your countermagic package.

I had a similar experience so far with this deck against 'heavy rogue' decks (MUD, Lands, NicFit, etc). Not having wasteland or planeswalkers hurts.

The build with countertop is designed to beat UR and combo, but all the MUs with curves that can escape from the countertop lock seem very difficult. It is heavily metagamed for combo (storm/elves) and UR. Probably too much for legacy...

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Why do you believe countertop to be bad here yet the duo occupies 8 slots in miracles, a competing and more successful uwx control build?

I love DTT in stoneforge lists, and I think it's going to become a staple.

[matunos]

Why do you believe countertop to be bad here yet the duo occupies 8 slots in miracles, a competing and more successful uwx control build?

I love DTT in stoneforge lists, and I think it's going to become a staple.

I haven't tried the countertop package in the stoneblade lists; this is just my impression from looking at the list and some limited observations from others playing that build...

Miracles is not just about establishing countertop, but they also use SDT to set up their namesake miracles, Terminus and Entreat. So it's really more of a 12-13 card package.

Miracles is also often pretty unfavored when they can't land a Top (which is why I almost always Force a turn 1 top if I can).

At any rate, I think the comparison is wrong, because in the case of Miracles, they are not really removing counter magic to make room for countertop; they're not playing the stoneblade suite (not usually, at least), not playing as many delve spells (or any in some cases), etc.

So, for me the question is- is the countertop package better or worse than the counter magic it's replacing?

In my opinion it's worse:

Top itself is good, of course, but when it's not being used to set up sweepers and finishers, and it won't be used to find as many answers when they're needed, it loses value.
Counterbalance by itself is not consistent enough to rely on. Nobody would be playing counterbalance if not for top.
The point of setting up countertop is to keep your opponent from doing anything while you draw into something to close the game out, which reduces the value of/need for your Treasure Cruises and/or Digs through Time.


The expand on the last point, the great value that Cruise/Dig provides is restocking your hand. In the case of UR Delver and the more aggressive Pyroblade builds, you're restocking from removal/burn/threats. In the case of the more controllish builds of Stoneblade you're generally restocking from counters and removal and/or looking for specific answers/finishers (this is why I personally prefer Dig Through Time in that build, which is what I play). In this deck, Countertop is only about trying to lock them out of the stack, not sweep the board or end the game. Furthermore, Countertop is not filling your graveyard like actually casting counter magic would, so even when it's established, it's harder to actually Cruise/Dig.

In short, I'd rather just have more direct and consistent counters early on and then be able to restock my hand and counter/remove more things later than to risk being stuck with one half of the countertop package (or establishing the pair but facing an opponent you can't lock out with it) and increasing the chance of having a delve card in hand that I can't cast.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I am an on-again off-again Miracles player since it first became a thing, and I am currently playing a 4-ponder Einherjer build. I am doing quite well with it in my current local/regional meta. I like the fact that you can play 1/2 E. Tutor to much success, also allowing for a lower number of CB in a list. That makes your RIPs and Grafdigger's Cage better in the match-ups you bring them in. Allows for Top to be exceptional as an enchantment/artifact Demonic Tutor. I love the combo in stoneforge. It may not be as good here as in miracles, but it's definitely a reasonable consideration.

[dionykos]

Counterbalance by itself is not consistent enough to rely on. Nobody would be playing counterbalance if not for top.
The point of setting up countertop is to keep your opponent from doing anything while you draw into something to close the game out, which reduces the value of/need for your Treasure Cruises and/or Digs through Time.


I actually picked up this list with Countertop because it is a lock in the MU I was targetting, this is how I wanted to close games in a storm/UR meta. As I said this is really a meta call, and it works well against these decks. The problem is that against everything that can play around Countertop, we are rather weak, because we have no pressure, no planeswalker and no big finisher like entreat. This is probably why Bob Huang has Delver in the main, even if he swapped it a lot for Countertop post-board.

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,

I wanted to share my thoughts and my current list with you, having a bit of discussing in here :smile:

Maindeck: 60 Karten

10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage

30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte

20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard: 15 Cards
2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroclasm
2 Blood Moon
2 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sword of Fire & Ice

I think the deck is still in a good position. The TC ban was not that of a thing for me because I play DTT over TC in this list anyway. With the rise of TA and the loss of UR/UWR Delver I think Counterbalance is not really worth it, maybe in the SB against Storm or something but not in the 60.

I cutted the 1off Karakas and replaced it with a 3rd Island because I want to play 2 Blood Moon in the SB which I think will be great again.

With less massremoval like Pyroclasm, Electrickery etc. I think Elves or DnT will be get played more in the next time, so the 7 removal spells are good, against TA too.

Spell Snare lost one of his main targets (YP) but the new enemy will be Counterbalance, Hymn to Tourach & Tarmogoyf and even DnT has a lot of targets like SFM, Thalia etc. so I will still play 2. Same for Spell Pierce.

Maybe it`s right to talk about Jace again but for the moment I really like 3 DTT as my card draw machine, maybe a Sword of Feast & Famine will be good again because of TA & Elves...Not sold on it...

Greetings

[spencerma]

Maindeck: 60 Karten

10 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage

30 Spells
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
3 Dig Through Time

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte

20 Lands
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas

Sideboard: 15 Cards
3 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyroblast
1 Wear//Tear
2 Flusterstorm
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Electrickery
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Council's Judgment

I ran a very similar list today at a small event. I changed the 2nd counter spell into a preordain and the 4th True-Name into the first Vendilion Clique. The list performed quite well. My main complain was the spell-snares which were really sub-par. They will be the first things I plan on cutting. I think Dig through time is the real deal in these stone blades lists. And with Treasure Cruise gone it only strengths this deck.

The sideboard was sorta throw together with not much thought. I like the Meddling Mages, Containment Priests, and Fluster storms. Those seem pretty standard. Electrickery still seems good enough in a lot of match ups but 2 might be obsessive. The Surgical, Supreme Verdict, and Council's Judgment could all be changed and I'm not quite sure what seems good. I may throw another equipment in the sideboard.

Shardless BUG 2-0 (I still think this is a bad matchup)
RUG Delver 2-0
Death and Taxes 1-1-1
Shardless BUG 2-1
MUD Split

I ended up top 2ing and chopping. I feel confident that spell snare is still not good enough, and it wasn't good enough before Khans. I may add that second counter spell back in or just another preordain. Having 9 Cantrips was amazing and the more I play legacy, the more I think it is correct to max out on them.

[alexx1523]

Hey all. I'm building slowly building into UWr blade control right now and I could use some advice. Keep in mind I'm a legacy newbie.

Right now I'm looking at this:


--10 Creatures--
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage


--26 Spells--
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning bolt



--4 Artifacts/Planeswalkers--
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor


--20 Lands--
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Wasteland

Here are my questions:
1) What are the most cost efficient upgrades I could make right now? 4th tundra? 3rd volcanic island? Karakas? Third TNN?
2) I have the wastelands in there because I saw them in earlier versions of the deck, but it seems that recent versions eschew it entirely. Should I cut them? Can anyone explain why wasteland would not be used? Perhaps I can learn something here.

Thanks in advance!

[ryscott85]

Hey all. I'm building slowly building into UWr blade control right now and I could use some advice. Keep in mind I'm a legacy newbie.

Right now I'm looking at this:


--10 Creatures--
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage


--26 Spells--
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Dig Through Time
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning bolt



--4 Artifacts/Planeswalkers--
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa`s Jitte
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor


--20 Lands--
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Plains
2 Wasteland

Here are my questions:
1) What are the most cost efficient upgrades I could make right now? 4th tundra? 3rd volcanic island? Karakas? Third TNN?
2) I have the wastelands in there because I saw them in earlier versions of the deck, but it seems that recent versions eschew it entirely. Should I cut them? Can anyone explain why wasteland would not be used? Perhaps I can learn something here.

Thanks in advance!

Personally, i'd look to Rudy and Jarvis's lists as they both made successful finishes even prior to cruise's banning. I'm more partial to Rudy's list as I like the flexibility of lightning bolt, (also could be because he'd been on death blade for song long and that happens to be my favorite deck to play). The things I'm debating are dropping the pyroblasts and possibly subbing the mountain for a plateau.. although with wasteland retuning it may not be the best idea.

[presquepartout]

Ran the following list to some success last weekend at a small local tournament (15 players). Likely running it back (with slight modifications) this coming weekend at a slightly bigger local tournament.

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage

Spells(30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Sudden Demise
1 Council's Judgment
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Dig Through Time

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Jace, the Mind Scupltor

Lands(21)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

SB:

2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wear // Tear
2 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Supreme Verdict

Games:

Round 1 (2-0) against Miracles: I knew my opponent was on Miracles, so saved up to fight over Counterbalance. Game 1 he was able to resolve Top and Counterbalance, but tapped out in the process. When I untapped, I slammed Jace, and he didn't have a 4 on top. Jace got there. Sideboard:

-4 Swords
-1 Plains
-1 Jitte
-1 Sudden Demise

+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Wear // Tear
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Game 2 proceeded similarly to Game 1. I fought over his CB, and he resolved it. He was relatively hellbent after this, so I baited a Top flip with a Spell Pierce, and then slammed Jace the following turn and fate-sealed away the Top. At that point his hand was awful, and Jace got there.

Round 2 (2-0) against Shardless BUG: Game 1, he was able to grind me down with Shardless + Ancestral, but DTT was able to bring me back into the game. Eventually I resolved Batterskull, and he Decayed the Germ token. I then followed with TNN. He bricked on Liliana for several turns, so TNN equipped with Batterskull was too much. Sideboard:

-4 Force of Will
-1 Plains
-1 Sudden Demise
-1 Snapcaster Mage

+2 Pyroblast
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Relic
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Supreme Verdict

In Game 1, I intentionally avoided fetching basics, so Game 2 he didn't play around my turn 3 Blood Moon when he was tapped out. Although I won 2-0, I do not think I am favored in this matchup. DTT was fantastic here, but they have plenty of answers for TNN and can out card advantage me.

Round 3 (2-1) against Burn: Game 1, he got me down to 1, and anything would've killed me, but he was hellbent and I resolved Batterskull. Sideboard:

-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 DTT

+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Wear // Tear

Game 2, Eidolon lock got there. Game 3, he kept a slow hand with a turn 1 Relic and a turn 3 Sulfuric Vortex, which resolved. I proceeded to race with a Germ, Vendilion Clique equipped with Jitte and 2 SFM. He chump blocked a little too early with his Eidolon and never popped his Relic, which allowed me to win the race.

Round 4 (ID, but I won 2-0 when we played it out) against Burn. Both games I won with Stoneforge protected by FoW + blue card.

Overall, I was very happy with the deck, though I definitely drew well. As for tweaks, the Fire // Ice was probably too cute, and should just be another Lightning Bolt. I never actually cast the Sudden Demise, but it's done a lot of work in the past for me (and there was plenty of GW/x and Merfolk in the room). I'm expecting more Deathrite Shamans and Delvers this coming weekend, which makes me less inclined to play Snapcaster Mage. Right now, I'd change the list to MB: -1 Snapcaster, -1 Fire // Ice, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Vendilion Clique; SB: -1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Red Elemental Blast. I definitely still like UWr a lot right now, and oscillate between this sort of build, Delver, and Cueno's list (you play Preordains, lots of counterspells, and 4 DTT). Not sure if I feel like out-Delvering people this weekend, and I have no clue how Cueno's list beats Burn or Storm (both of which will be present). One note, unless you have a lot of Griselbrands in your area, I don't really like Karakas very much, even with multiple Cliques. The card is just too awkward since Plains is the worst card in your deck unless you are playing against Wasteland, and Karakas doesn't help you there.

[spencerma]

Ran the following list to some success last weekend at a small local tournament (15 players). Likely running it back (with slight modifications) this coming weekend at a slightly bigger local tournament.

Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage

Spells(30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Fire // Ice
1 Sudden Demise
1 Council's Judgment
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Dig Through Time

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Jace, the Mind Scupltor

Lands(21)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

SB:

2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
2 Meddling Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wear // Tear
2 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Blood Moon
1 Supreme Verdict

Games:

Round 1 (2-0) against Miracles: I knew my opponent was on Miracles, so saved up to fight over Counterbalance. Game 1 he was able to resolve Top and Counterbalance, but tapped out in the process. When I untapped, I slammed Jace, and he didn't have a 4 on top. Jace got there. Sideboard:

-4 Swords
-1 Plains
-1 Jitte
-1 Sudden Demise

+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Wear // Tear
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Game 2 proceeded similarly to Game 1. I fought over his CB, and he resolved it. He was relatively hellbent after this, so I baited a Top flip with a Spell Pierce, and then slammed Jace the following turn and fate-sealed away the Top. At that point his hand was awful, and Jace got there.

Round 2 (2-0) against Shardless BUG: Game 1, he was able to grind me down with Shardless + Ancestral, but DTT was able to bring me back into the game. Eventually I resolved Batterskull, and he Decayed the Germ token. I then followed with TNN. He bricked on Liliana for several turns, so TNN equipped with Batterskull was too much. Sideboard:

-4 Force of Will
-1 Plains
-1 Sudden Demise
-1 Snapcaster Mage

+2 Pyroblast
+1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Sword of Feast and Famine
+1 Relic
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Supreme Verdict

In Game 1, I intentionally avoided fetching basics, so Game 2 he didn't play around my turn 3 Blood Moon when he was tapped out. Although I won 2-0, I do not think I am favored in this matchup. DTT was fantastic here, but they have plenty of answers for TNN and can out card advantage me.

Round 3 (2-1) against Burn: Game 1, he got me down to 1, and anything would've killed me, but he was hellbent and I resolved Batterskull. Sideboard:

-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 DTT

+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Wear // Tear

Game 2, Eidolon lock got there. Game 3, he kept a slow hand with a turn 1 Relic and a turn 3 Sulfuric Vortex, which resolved. I proceeded to race with a Germ, Vendilion Clique equipped with Jitte and 2 SFM. He chump blocked a little too early with his Eidolon and never popped his Relic, which allowed me to win the race.

Round 4 (ID, but I won 2-0 when we played it out) against Burn. Both games I won with Stoneforge protected by FoW + blue card.

Overall, I was very happy with the deck, though I definitely drew well. As for tweaks, the Fire // Ice was probably too cute, and should just be another Lightning Bolt. I never actually cast the Sudden Demise, but it's done a lot of work in the past for me (and there was plenty of GW/x and Merfolk in the room). I'm expecting more Deathrite Shamans and Delvers this coming weekend, which makes me less inclined to play Snapcaster Mage. Right now, I'd change the list to MB: -1 Snapcaster, -1 Fire // Ice, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Vendilion Clique; SB: -1 Vendilion Clique, +1 Red Elemental Blast. I definitely still like UWr a lot right now, and oscillate between this sort of build, Delver, and Cueno's list (you play Preordains, lots of counterspells, and 4 DTT). Not sure if I feel like out-Delvering people this weekend, and I have no clue how Cueno's list beats Burn or Storm (both of which will be present). One note, unless you have a lot of Griselbrands in your area, I don't really like Karakas very much, even with multiple Cliques. The card is just too awkward since Plains is the worst card in your deck unless you are playing against Wasteland, and Karakas doesn't help you there.


I'm running a super similar list. I've been tempted to run the first Jace, the MindSculptor in the main so it is good to know it has been good for you. Dig Through Time is definitely here to stay in these lists. My Shardless BUG matchup is definitely not great but it is possible to get there through play skill. Pyro's are descent at fighting there card engines which makes post board match ups winnable. You just have to find the right window to get a True Name online. I felt like I liked Snapcaster Mage personally. I'm still running only two but it sorta feels like a its own DTT. I think I'll try a Jace in the Main. I also think one Pyro in the main deck might still be fine. Blue is still everywhere.

[presquepartout]

I was down to 1 Jace pre banning, but now I am really liking 2. Game 1 against Miracles, they don't have a particularly effective way of dealing with the card (Pyroblast main isn't a thing locally for me anymore), and you can often resolve it through CB. I never drew it against Shardless, but obviously it's fantastic in that matchup so long as you are able to keep the board stable.

[hartigan]

I'm making the switch from playing combo to playing fair and was intrigued by UW Blade control.

The list I've been building is somewhat old and only plays 2 Tundras and 1 Underground Sea (for flashing back Lingering Souls) which is what I'm looking for because I'd prefer to play a lot of basics... and Back To Basics.

Is it still possible to run pure Blue White, or is that style of play outdated? I've noticed most blade lists lately have been UWR or Death Blade.

[gabelmeister]

In my opinion uw is just super strong right now again.
I see all the list with a red splash for maybe 2 bolts und 2 pyroblasts. I don't understand why people do this.
I would play uw with factory. Then u have 80% vs miracles and they are strong against many other decks too.
Back to Basics is also a great card right now

[hartigan]

In my opinion uw is just super strong right now again.
I see all the list with a red splash for maybe 2 bolts und 2 pyroblasts. I don't understand why people do this.
I would play uw with factory. Then u have 80% vs miracles and they are strong against many other decks too.
Back to Basics is also a great card right now

It's probably providing some reach in certain matchups and there's also probably some sideboard cards, somebody mentioned Blood Moon is possible out of the board but I have never seen that.

I love Back to Basics and with the greedy mana bases in my local meta I feel like it could really be a beating, especially for those BUG players.

This is the list I am running right now:

1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

5 Island
3 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
3 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea

1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Back to Basics
1 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
1 Ponder
3 Supreme Verdict

[presquepartout]

the red splash is partially a relic of the TC format, where lightning bolt and pyroblast were where you wanted to be. a third color is almost free in these sort of decks, and i think the access to red or black post-board helps a lot more in blue match ups than something like mishra's factory.

edit: i've also never been a fan of detention sphere over oblivion ring, banishing light, or council's judgment. yes, it pitches to force of will, but it's best against decks that have access to pyroblast. additionally, the amount of times you get more than one permanent with it is extremely low.

[hartigan]

the red splash is partially a relic of the TC format, where lightning bolt and pyroblast were where you wanted to be. a third color is almost free in these sort of decks, and i think the access to red or black post-board helps a lot more in blue match ups than something like mishra's factory.

edit: i've also never been a fan of detention sphere over oblivion ring, banishing light, or council's judgment. yes, it pitches to force of will, but it's best against decks that have access to pyroblast. additionally, the amount of times you get more than one permanent with it is extremely low.

Okay that makes more sense.

I definitely have some black cards in the sideboard like Thoughtseize which are playable off the basic Swamp and the Underground Sea and they definitely provide some reach not available in straight UW.

I don't really mind playing Detention Sphere over the mono white exiling enchantments, I'll gladly take the vulnerability to Pyroblast over the potential upside of hitting tokens and being able to pitch to Force of Will, though I do see your point.

[Crazy88]

Hey folks, I'm just getting started in Legacy and am building Jeskai Stoneblade (and probably also Esper Stoneblade because most of the cards are shared). Just to confirm: is this thread related to these decks? I didn't find any dedicated thread to Jeskai Stoneblade and the lists here are pretty close to what I'm starting from (http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_jeskai_stoneblade_wi.html), so I'm assuming this is the correct thread to post.

[presquepartout]

i've certainly been only posting about UWr stoneblade in this thread.

played in a 28 man tournament earlier today -- managed to 3-1-1, which got me into the top 8. won my quarterfinal match, and then the remaining 4 decided to split prize support, so i bounced. my list

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Dig Through Time
1 Sudden Demise
1 Council's Judgment

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic

2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Blood Moon
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Wear // Tear
1 Council's Judgment
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Don't remember too many specifics, so just things that stood out.

Round 1 (1-1-1) against Shardless BUG. Tarmogoyf army won game one. Game 2 was extremely long and grindy, and DTT was an all star here. Eventually Batterskull was too much, forcing him to start burning Toxic Deluge on the germs.

Round 2 (2-0) against Leylines. I knew he was on this deck, so game 1 I mulled to FoW + blue card, which got there. Game 2, mulled to 5, but couldn't find a FoW, but kept an otherwise strong five with no permission (Ponder, Brainstorm, 2 lands, SFM). Opponent kept a slower hand that was relying on Suppression field. Blood Moon wrecked him.

Round 3 (1-2) against Lands. I picked up round 1 because my opponent forgot to de-sideboard, and didn't notice until after drawing a card. Game 2 I resolved Blood Moon while he was tapped out, but he eventually found Forest + Krosan Grip. Game 3, he had a quick Chalice on 1, followed by my Blood Moon. We played draw-go for 10 turns, and I never found another basic to cast either my Meddling Mage (naming K Grip) or Jace. Eventually, he found a K Grip, made a Merit Lage, which I attempt to Plow. He pointed out Chalice, so I responded to the trigger on the stack with DTT -- found the Wear // Tear -- but had already cast the Plow. I really don't like this matchup.

Round 4 (2-1) against Grixis stuff. My opponent was on a Grixis Young Pyro/Deathrite Shaman deck that also played Tasigur (but no Delver), which felt underwhelming to me. Not much to say about this one.

Round 5 (2-1) against Goblins. These were incredibly long games, and I won with exact damage in my last turn of extra turns (TNN equiped with Feast/Famine and Jitte). Sudden Demise was often getting a 5-1, but he was able to recover quickly. These games didn't feel great, and you basically just had to cash in equipment for tempo with TNN.

Quarterfinals against same BUG as R1. Games 1 and 2 were super grindy. Game 3, my winning board state was Blood Moon, Vendilion Clique, Relic, and Misty Rainforest. (He got to ultimate LoTV in this game, and I kept the pile of just Blood Moon and floated mana to cast Clique).

Overall, I think the deck is very strong and has game against the field. I do not like the Lands matchup one bit, and would like to find room for better graveyard hate, either Rest in Peace (which seems bad) or Surgical Extraction. A second Blood Moon seems correct as well. DTT, Vendilion Clique, and Spell Pierce were the best cards in the deck, by a wide margin.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I don't play the red splash ever and sometimes I don't even splash for black. Bant is its own thing, and certainly less "control" than any other build, including junkblade. It's all flavors I guess (other than bant, maybe?)

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[hartigan]

I don't play the red splash ever and sometimes I don't even splash for black.

Would you have a list I could look at for straight UW Blade with no splash?

[matunos]

Round 3 (1-2) against Lands. I picked up round 1 because my opponent forgot to de-sideboard, and didn't notice until after drawing a card. Game 2 I resolved Blood Moon while he was tapped out[...]


If your opponent got a game 1 loss for presenting an illegal deck, you guys should not have been allowed to sideboard for game 2.

[presquepartout]

If your opponent got a game 1 loss for presenting an illegal deck, you guys should not have been allowed to sideboard for game 2.

We had already taken a game action (he drew a card for his 1st turn, which was the sideboard card), so I believe that is why we were allowed to sideboard. (The judge explicitly told us that we could sideboard for game 2).

[[SLAYER]chaos]

One thing I thought this deck was lacking is a big late game bomb. I feel like Elspeth can be the card I'm looking for. Even in a neutral or losing board state she can completely swing things back in your favor by either wiping away a few big green creatures or just pumping out an endless stream of chump blockers. I know she's a huge commitment at 6 mana but I'm hoping she can pull her weight even as just as one of. And at this point it's all just theory anyway, I'm going to be testing it this weekend though and I can report back with how she does overall.

Creatures: 6
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique

Spells: 25
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Ponder
2 Dig Through Time
2 Counterspell
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
1 Path to Exile
1 Spell Snare
1 Flusterstorm

Artifacts: 2
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Planeswalkers: 4
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Enchantments: 1
1 Detention Sphere

Lands: 22
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory

Sideboard: 15
2 Meddling Mage
2 Containment Priest
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
1 Detention Sphere
1 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Disenchant
1 Flusterstorm

[gabelmeister]

Would be interesting if she is worth.
But normally jace, baneslayer and elspeth, knight errant are the best late game bombs

[[SLAYER]chaos]

I used to have Knight Errant. Then had Baneslayer in the uwr version. I just always wanted to try her out in legacy and this seems like the deck where she would most naturally fit in.

[Collman]

Hey, very glad I found this thread. I've been building a similar list and I'd like to get your input on it.
I haven't been able to actually play a tournament with this deck yet since my local store is closed until next week or the other, so most of my testing have been with friends and whatnot. Here's my list.


1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Council's Judgment

4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

Sideboard
1 Containment Priest
2 Blood Moon
1 Electrickery
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Spell Pierce
2 Pyroblast
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wear // Tear
2 Meddling Mage


The reason I'm playing this list is that I feel it has a good late game, plenty of removal for the small creature decks, a good mana base against wasteland, decent sources of CA and very impactful sideboard cards in RIP and Blood Moon.

Sadly, I don't feel like the mana base is good enough to operate on basics as easily as I'd like and I also feel like the deck is not aggresive enough sometimes.
I'm considering on going -1 Counterspell to relief some of that tension, and adding another creature to the deck. I've been considering the fourth SFM since playing 3 seems a little weird, but I often don't feel like she's the best. I might be wrong though, so I'll probably try it.

Elspeth in the SB is for Miracles which I don't feel is a good matchup but I'm also not 100% convinced that it's good enough or the best plan. Electrickery is there against Elves and D&T, it should be a Sudden Demise but I can't find one in my country.

I've been thinking about the EE + Academy Ruin's package, but that feels slow and I'm not sure that's where this decks wants to be at.

[somethingdotdotdot]

I've been playing UWr counterblade for the last couple of weeks and its been treating me well (Top 8'd the piq at scg la; and t8'd the other 3 local tournaments I've brought it to). However, I've always been an avid fan of the esper colors so I tried porting my uwr list into uwb. This is my current version and it's actually been beating my uwr version in testing.

4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Snapcaster Mage
2 Lingering Souls

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
2 Dig Through Time
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Island
2 Plains

SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Containment Priest

So I put the thoughtseizes into the side and took the basic swamp out of the manabase. My thoughts are that I want the black splash to be pretty minimal preboard and be able to operate off of just basics and only fetch the sea/scrubland if I need to flashback the souls or cast the edict.

Advantages of Black:
- Lingering souls: good vs the mirror, miracles, and delver
- Thoughtseize: good versus combo (especially storm) and any stoneforge deck (pretty much every non-miracle white deck)
- Diabolic edict: good versus sneak/show, reanimator, and true-name decks; bad vs swarm decks

Advantages of Red:
- Pyroblast: anti-blue (main reason to run red)
- Lightning Bolt: good vs small creature/swam decks; bad vs big creatures (goyf, tasigur)
- Blood moon: great versus greedy manabases (haven't run this in the uwr version yet, but useful vs post and bug decks)

Any opinions on which color splash is better for the general metagame?

Edit: After a couple hours of testing I believe that the UWr version is much better at stabilizing versus decks with a lot of early pressure/land destruction (ie, Rug Delver, Bug with stifles, UG infect); the UWb version is better versus grindy midrange/control decks (it has a great matchup versus miracles) as well as combo in general. I believe some tweaks to the esper list to increase early disruption may turn it into the better overall list.

[MoAC]

I am new to Legacy and am building into straight UW Stoneblade. What are your opinions on running sword/thopter combo in the deck as a 1:2 split?

[somethingdotdotdot]

I am new to Legacy and am building into straight UW Stoneblade. What are your opinions on running sword/thopter combo in the deck as a 1:2 split?

I haven't tried thopter swords in the deck for a while, but it definitely helps out the miracles matchup as they have virtually no way to win once it resolves. The biggest problem is obviously resolving it through counterbalance and a slew of fow's/counterspells. I found that it was clunky in pretty much every other matchup, especially the BGx ones which were already iffy for the deck.

[Abantau]

Narset planeswalker looks promising in uw stoneblade.

[zzregz]

Guys... what do you think on my build? Please help me...


4 SfM
2 tnn
2 snapcaster mage
3 young pyromancer
(11 creature)

4 fow
2 daze
3 spell pierce
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 dtt
2 g probe
4 StP
2 lightning bolt
1 council's judgment
1 batterskull
1 jitte
(30 other spell)

2 arid mesa
3 scalding tarn
3 flooded strand
3 tundra
3 volcanic island
2 island
2 plains
1 karakas
(19 land)


2 containment priest
2 meddling mage
2 surgical extraction
1 g cage
1 wear/ tear
2 blood moon
1 sudden dimise
2 pyroblast
1 hurkyl's recall
1 pithing needle
(15 sideboard)



I hope you help me on my build... thanks...

[weaselface]

Narset planeswalker looks promising in uw stoneblade.

If I'm going to resolve a 4-mana planeswalker I would rather it be Jace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matunos]

If I'm going to resolve a 4-mana planeswalker I would rather it be Jace.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agreed. Narset is unplayable in Legacy as long as Jace is legal (and possibly even if he's not.)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think even other Jaces are better for legacy than Narset. I'm going to be testing Narset in modern.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[grim confident]

I do not think narset better than jace, in any case.

Unstable or need to meet in the draw, and slow rebound.

turn 4 has no effect on the battle.

so........

[Lordofthestringz]

Good to see the deck in the DTB section :)

Here is my current list

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion clique

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Dig Through Time

4 force of will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Pyroblast
1 Counterspell

1 Council’s Judgment
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ligthning Bolt
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor

SB :
3 Meddling Mage
2 Containement Priest
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Blood Moon
1 Sword of Fire/ice
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear/Tear
1 Engineered Explosives

[Secretly.A.Bee]

My biggest problem with this deck is deciding whether these lists want counterbalance or not. Any thoughts on the matter?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Collman]

I really wanted to play CounterTop in this deck and I've tried it both in the sb and in the main, and I think the (lets call it) Ponder version is better.

Top gives a lot of incremental advantage in the long run, but the deck can be clunky and I feel keeping a sketchy hand with Ponder is better than with Top, specially cards like TNN and SFM wants us to tap out early-ish. Not having Ponder also make DTT worst since we can't fill our graveyard as fast. Needless to say, Ponder is miles better when you need something right now, and a Top without a fetchland is often useless. So, IMO having a Top alone is worst than Ponder.

Having Counterbalance alone is atrocious while also putting a strain on the mana base, which I think is one of the best things about the deck (a wasteland proof mana base that can play Blood Moon).

Having both is pretty good of course, but it's somewhat slow to get online and most decks expect to face it from Miracles so have ways to deal with it. Another thing I like about my list at least is that it's basically cantrips, removal, counters and threats that all work well together but also can stand on their own. Having Cb + Top means that that's no longer true and I'd rather avoid that from a more philosophical point of view.

Another thing I started thinking when I was testing it was why would you play this deck with CounterTop instead of just playing miracles? And I couldn't really find a good enough reason. It's not like TNN and SFM make Miracle's bad matchups better, or at least I don't think that's the case.

[solidbass]

I'm pretty excited that Stoneblade is in the DTB section! My biggest area for concern with this deck is the miracles matchup as well as the BUG delver matchup. I'd say every other popular matchup is around 50:50. I ran esper for quite some time and miracles always had the edge on me unless I could draw Lingering Souls or TNN. BUG with stifle has always been rough for me especially in postboard games being able to SB into a grind fest. Anyone have any experience with a pure UW or UWr list with postive matchups against these archetypes?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I think it may be a little hasty in presuming this thread is all about a red splash, when in fact red should probably be completely ignored. There are already two UWr decks in the DTB section. Miracles is the premier control build and UWr Delver remains the go-to tempo control varient. What do you think a build like this will accomplish that one of those two doesn't already? Nothing. I would argue that this thread should remain red-free until such time that it can accomplish more or completely replace one of the other UWr builds. I'm playing a pure UW list. I beat BUG with E. Tutors, a RIP, and 2x B2B, 2x Clique (+1 in the main), and 2x Flusterstorm out of the board. Countertop makes the mirror and the Miracles match-up a little better and can just dominate the Delver matchup. It also makes the Blood Moon/B2B plan more successful in general.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[somethingdotdotdot]

I'm a die hard supporter of the counterbalance package in the maindeck. In pretty much every matchup outside of death and taxes and BGx midrange, countertop can just end the game. It does push the deck more into the control spectrum of things, but that's where this deck was usually trying to go anyways--except now it has a much more consistency once you do hit the end game. In the bug matchup, countertop forces them to either decay the counterbalance or the sfm leaving one of them in play. Either one is capable of running away with the game. I've found this brute force approach helpful versus most abrupt decay decks (except Jund, which is a terrible matchup for my UWr list--souls really turns it into a 50-50 or better matchup though).

[Grillo]

I dont think this thread is about or not about the red splash.
I think this is about UW(r) no delver, no terminus, yes stoneforge mystic control decks.

The red splash is really about play style and not about what defines this deck.

That being said, I'm really happy to see this deck here. I'm moving from UWR delver tempo to this type of deck. I like control better than tempo.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Believe what you want, you've been in this thread what, 5 seconds? This thread consistently goes to the red splash discussion often, or worse, argues black v. red.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[somethingdotdotdot]

Believe what you want, you've been in this thread what, 5 seconds? This thread consistently goes to the red splash discussion often, or worse, argues black v. red.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I don't understand why that shouldn't happen here. Sure there is an esperblade thread, but this is just a generic "blade control" thread. It's natural to discuss the merits and demerits of the two most common splashes.

[Lordofthestringz]

I think it may be a little hasty in presuming this thread is all about a red splash, when in fact red should probably be completely ignored. There are already two UWr decks in the DTB section. Miracles is the premier control build and UWr Delver remains the go-to tempo control varient. What do you think a build like this will accomplish that one of those two doesn't already? Nothing. I would argue that this thread should remain red-free until such time that it can accomplish more or completely replace one of the other UWr builds. I'm playing a pure UW list. I beat BUG with E. Tutors, a RIP, and 2x B2B, 2x Clique (+1 in the main), and 2x Flusterstorm out of the board. Countertop makes the mirror and the Miracles match-up a little better and can just dominate the Delver matchup. It also makes the Blood Moon/B2B plan more successful in general.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

What lists have been putting results on this last months? UW Ones? Esper ones? If you check tcdecks almost all of them are splashing red, and i can totally understand why.

Dig Through Time is the card that made this deck good again, and allows it to fight against Shardless Bug and Miracles (this decks are quite huge in Europe) on the same level.

And you know what is good to fight against Dig Through Time, Counterbalances, Jaces and Ancestral Visions? Pyroblast? Red elemental blast?

At the same time it allows you to play Blood Moon, that helps a lot against BUG decks and weird matchups like lands, and if you play in a fair meta you can play Lightning Bolt.

I'm totally fine with people not splashing red but no need to be so fussy about it :smile:

Counterbalance is also a nice option in this deck, i have nothing against it, but the list i have posted is the one that has been giving me the best results and that i will most probably play at GP Kyoto.

And i do believe that this deck took UWR Delver place in the DTB section.

[Hrothgar]

I'm very happy to see this thread in the DTB.

I'm moving from Patriot to Blade Control after the ban of Treasure Cruise and the stability of Blade's manabase are great in the present meta.

In this time i take familiarity with the concept of Control-Creatures based deck and I play a UW pure version, with 7/8 basic lands, Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives because the meta are full of MUD, and I can destroy up to 2 Chalice of Void without problems, before the Academy is Wasted.

[jorke88]

I've seen lists online running Spell Snare instead of Pierce in the Main Board. I imagine they make several of your Fair matchups better since it deals with a lot of the powerful creature cards on other decks(Goyf, Snap, Eidolon, Pyromancer, opposing Stoneforges, etc.), and a couple decent non-creature spells like Hymn, Price, and Counterbalance; but I imagine that having access to both Bolt and Swords already makes fair matchups decent, and there's not enough non-creature spells around that I'd prefer to have an edge against, even so I'd rather use Pierce over Snare if that was the case. Thoughts?

[MoAC]

Have you guys been thinking about running Myth Realized in this deck? Seems like a good option, it gets better just by playing the game, something to throw extra mana into and not a terrible late game topdeck

[matunos]

In this time i take familiarity with the concept of Control-Creatures based deck and I play a UW pure version, with 7/8 basic lands, Academy Ruins and Engineered Explosives because the meta are full of MUD, and I can destroy up to 2 Chalice of Void without problems, before the Academy is Wasted.

Explosives in a 2-color deck is pretty ambitious.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yeah, if it's chalice giving you fits, Ratchet Bomb is better here as its capable of doing a lot of work against the whole of MUD.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[screallix]

So yesterday I just Top2'ed the Eternal Clash (http://www.eternal-clash.com/start/) Legacy Event with 72 participants in North Germany, Flensburg.

I've been playing Jeskai Blade since Khans of Tarkir with 4 Treasure Cruise and Young Pyromancer but after the bannings I changed the slots to 1 Jace, the Mindsculptor and 3 Dig Through Times (Bonkers card).

Here is the List I've been playing yesterday:

Lands (20)
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand

Creatures (9)
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Spells (31)
3 Dig Through Time
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard (15):
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Pyroblast
1 Red-Elemental Blast
1 Spell Snare
1 Sudden Demise
1 Wear//Tear
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Bloodmoon
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest

Although I was very frustrated the day before at FridayNightMagic I started the event day
in a very confident, well rested mood. I bought 5 Bananas and 6 Apples and a pack of cereal bars and bread to get me through the day.
I was curious how the people react to my new black bordered sleeves called Bordifies, that me and two of my friends have engineered in the last few months.
(Read more: http://Bordifies.com, http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2zlsta/tired_of_whitebordered_cards_bordifies_has_the/)

In the past I lost a lot games against Loam.dec, Maverick, BUG Control and BUG Tempo so I asked my friend
Dennis, who Top2'ed the last Eternal Clash to borrow me his Bloodmoon. Althougt I only play 3 basics, the card seems legit in the Matchups
where I really need some permanent solution which either wins me the game or gets me there.

Round 1: Niels featuring Affinity 2:0
He told me he hasn't played a long time and this was his first tournament since 2007.
I kept both games a good hand including Stoneforge, Force for his Plating and Ponder into Supreme Verdict game 2 for his
Etched Champion and Jitte gets the job done.

Round 2: Philip featuring UR OmniSneak (Top4) 2:1
I knew Philip since I started playing at Flensburg's local store and I knew what sort of deck he was piloting.
Game 1 he has the Combo-Overload and trumps me with Sneak-Attack into Grisslebrand + Emrakul.
Game 2 I sideboarded: 2 Flusterstorm, 1 Pyroblast, 1 Red-Elemental Blast, 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Wear // Tear (they often play Defense Grid and it also kills Omni/Sneak in mid-combo), Pithing Needle (mostly Sneak, sometimes Grisslebrand), 2 Containment Priest (only hoses the Creature part of Show and Tell) and 1 Surgical Extraction since I was expecting Intuition and Dig Through Time.
I can't remember exactly both games but one turn he tries to resolve SnT which gets Flusterstormed by me and which gets Flusterstormed
by him, unlike him I was able to pay for the storm copies. Strange. Vendilion Clique and Containment Priest (why does it have flash, IDK) got there.

Round 3: Momme featuring Imperial Painter (Top1) 1:1 ID
Momme is a good friend and we talked for a while as we set down at Table 6.
At that time I didn't expect to see him in the finals again.
I told him I hate playing against friends and propably kicking out one which occured 5 out of 7 games in the last Clash.
After short discussion we ID'ed to get both into Top8 (which ended up that way :D). Nevertheless we played this round seriously.
THIS round and the final was one of the best magic I've ever played. Seems like the deck Painter is leading to a lot of strange and
uncommon decisions and plays. All three games included several Planeswalkers KOTH vs Jace, 4 Swords/4 Lightning Bolts on each Scarecrow,
Red-Elemental Blasts on Ensnaring Bridges, and operating with 3 Lightning Bolts under Bloodmoon.
I lost Game 1, won Game 2 with Jace against Bridge and Game 3 took way too long. We end up in turns and he was attacking me for one each turn and milling me with grindstone as I was trying to Fate-Seal my Jace to the win. I end up on 1 life as he plays Chandra, Pyromaster (yes, chandra the red JTMS!) to Ping me the last damage just before the last turn.
1:1 ID but he'd have one that game (maybe)

Round 4: Jesper (Danish) featuring Elves 1:2
This round was very unfortunate for me. I've seen him playing
elves on another table next to me, so the cat was out of the bag.
Game 1 He mulliganed to 5 and I mulliganed down to FOUR cards on the draw.
I kept a hand with: 1 Tundra, 1 Swords to Plowshares, 1 Stoneforge, 1 Force of Will - SNAP KEEP
Jesper starts with Forest- Quirion Ranger. I draw a Volcanic Island and plow his Ranger right away since he was on a mull to 5, too.
He passed the turn which was great for me. (afterwards he said he would be able to glimpse-kill me with that hand if the ranger had sticked)
I drew a Ponder for the Turn (enabling Force) and played Stoneforge into Jitte, countering Glimpse in the next few turns and Jitte
getting the win for me.
Game 2 he had the combo and hoofed me to 1. I had one window to find Supreme Verdict and failed.
Game 3 I mulliganed down to 4 cards again (ffs, no lands). Easy game for him.

I was frustrated. I had no chance with mulligans against this sort of combo and did my very best in game 2. Momme won his game so he was
in a good position.

Round 5: Infect (Danish) 2:0
I forgot his name and can't remember many details but he wasn't new to the tournament scene and very confidant with his playstyle.
As far as I remember both games involved Jitte and Swords to Plowshares and Lightning Bolts on his Creatures after Combat. He
was very aware of not running into removal after pumping and I was very aware of Vines of the Vastwood. In this Match up it's really important
to be patient and not to tap out. I bluffed a spot removal for two turns which lead to enabling stoneforge the following turn.
Game 1 was a long grind.
Game 2 was very short as he didn't found his Natures Claim for my Jitte.

Round 6: Felix Munch featuring Lands 2:1
I knew Felix from the last Eternal Clash as he was one of the danish players traveling to Flensburg.
Last time he played a very sweet foil japanese 4-color Lands deck with Tolaria West, Ancient Ruins and Engineered Explosives
and I was sure he is playing it this time.
Game 1: On Turn 1 I played a ponder to find some fetchies or basics followed by turn 2 Stoneforge.
He gets loam+wasteland, punishing fire+grove online and kills my stoneforge. I played a turn 4 Brainstorm mainphase with an uncracked fetch in play to find some action
which shows Tundra, Tundra, Volcanic. I immediatly say "Shuffle" and he was like: WHAT, WAIT, WHY? But I already shufflled them into the library. I'm still unsure why I resolved the Brainstorm like a Ponder. We both called the Headjudge. After very long discussion about the situation, the error I made and how to continue, the judge said:
I shuffle my library and proceed with the Brainstorm. The judge left and I asked Felix: "May I resolve my brainstorm now?" and he was like "No, dude?! Why would you?"
a guy next to me immediatly called the judge back to the table because the situation was still unclear. I asked the judge how to proceed and he said exactly what I thougt.
Resolve a second Brainstorm. Felix and I thought that's a real advantage and he spoke to his second Judge to find the right ruling. I said to my opponent that we both
play very slow decks and I conceeded game 1, because with a second draw I'd be out of Top8. After we continue with sideboarding the judge came back to the table and explained it is a game loss, because the situation can't be fixed. That sounds reasonable. I apologized and we started sideboarding. I brought in:
1 Bloodmoon (Hell, YEAH), 1 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Surgical and 1 Vendilion Clique to fight Life from the Loam.
Game 2: I kept a hand including 3 Fetchlands and a Bloodmoon. He said: "That's a really good Card"
Game 3 included Relic of Progenitus, Jace The Mindsculptor, Stoneforge, Batterskull and True-Name Nemesis and four lands on my board
and Maze of Ith, Urborg and some other lands on his board. I attack him a few times, since True-Name can't be mazed
but I haven't found my fifth land to equip nemesis. He played Enigneered Explosives for 3, but didn't blow it up as he was still aware of the bloodmoon
in my deck. In the meanwhile I tick up my Jace as fast as possible, fate-sealing myself to get rid of three extra nonbasic lands. He blew up the explosives
leaving me unable to attack due to his maze. My only goal to win this was my Jace on 11 Counters. He played his ancient ruins and put his Engineered Explosives on top.
So there was this situation: I could Fateseal him and put the EE on the bottom, but if he had a cycle land I'd loose on the spot or I could Spell Pierce it buying me an extra turn.
I brainstormed with Jace finding Dig Through Time and passed the turn. He plays EE for 4 having 2 mana open. I pierced- he pays. I DTT EOT to find me either Councils Judgment or Wear//Tear or Ponder/Brainstorm. I found Council's Judgment and True-Name Nemesis, incase my Jace dies. I fatesealed him and casted Council's Judgment in my Mainphase. He conceded.

Round 7: Finn featuring MonoOmni 2:0
After the scores were updated Finn and I knew we had to play against each other.
He's a friend of Momme and I know him from Danish Legacy Masters in Kopenhagen last year.
Game 1: He tried to Show&Tell me on Turn 2 with City but my Pierce was able to stop him this turn.
Later he tried to SnT again which gets forced by me. Stoneforge + Batterskull is a decent clock.
It was very important to win Game 1 because I'm not that well prepared for this combo matchup
Game 2: I had permission overload again, like in most other combo matchups and my Red Elemental + Pyroblasts,
Flusterstorm, Pierce and Clique gets the job done.


Top8 Torge featuring ANT 2:1
Game 1: I mulliganed to 5 and he Gitaxian Probe'd my Hand on Turn 2 with 2 Lands and 2 Stoneforges. With zero permission In my hand he starts thinking and is
deep in the tank. After 3 minutes I ask him in a kind manner to speed up his pace because it was already very late in the evening. He said he plays that deck for the first
time in this configuration and it is his second tournament in a long time. He then cast double ritual, LED, Petal, Infernal Tutor, Past in Flames, Rinse - Repeat and Tendrills me.
I asked him "WTF? How did it take you so long? That's the basic combo route of this deck." He replied it was already late and he was nervous. I'm okay and borded in:
2 Flusterstorm, 1 REB, 1 Pyroblast, 1 Vendilion Clique, 1 Surgical, 1 Spell Snare, 1 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Grafdiggers Cage
Game 2 and 3 I have a lot of permission and I countered his Xantid Swarms with Force of Will to ensure they are still alive.
One important sequence was Turn 4 in Game 2 where he Duress'ed me and I had 5 cards in graveyard two blue mana open and flusterstorm, spell pierce, dig through time and brainstorm in hand. I thought about hiding flusterstorm and pierce with brainstorm but if he had the combo I'd be dead, so I showed him my hand without any response.
He counted my graveyard and wasn't happy. He had to take the Dig Through Time because I'd be able to dig in the EOT if he chose anything else. Later in the game he wasn't able to get through my permission.

Top4 Max featuring Team America 2:0
I tested this Matchup for a very long while now with two friends in Kiel and it seems like the Tasigur build is a lot more trouble than the
Dark Confidant build. Liliana is a must answer threat against us and Sylvan Library will grind us out if unchecked.
So I played against Max, one of the organizers of Eternal-Clash and old friend from the local store.
Game 1 He won the die roll and started with Turn 2 Dark Confidant which meet my Lightning Bolt immediatly, not playing around Daze because I had a second one in my hand
and a turn two Stoneforge Mystic on my side. After a lot of removal spells and no Liliana I win with True Name and Batterskull.
Game 2 I boarded in Bloodmoon, Relic, Wear//Tear for Null Rod and Sylvan Library, Spell Snare for Hymn, Library and Tarmogoyf sometimes and Pithing Needle for Liliana.
He started again with Turn 2 Confidant which met a Bolt again. (If this card would have been a Tasigur later in the game I'd be in a lot of troubles both games)
I ponder and find a blood moon and 2 fetchlands. Unfortunatly he wastelands me on his turn three but I find my third land and try to resolve the Moon
while he was having Black and Green mana open and Decay in hand. I wasn't sure if he anticipated my Moon or didn't have anything else to play at that time.
After getting Swords to Plowshares and Dig Through Time Hymned and the second Dig Through Time Forced I resolve Stoneforge fetching and playing and Batterskull.
Later True-Name resolves and he has two Tarmogoyfs unable to attack. He tried to Golgari Charm my Creature but I had Spell Pierce in hand and he was tapped out.
A few turns later I was very sure he had a liliana in hand, unable to cast efficiently. I had a snapcaster in hand and tried to trap him by attacking with my Nemesis and Batterskull in his Goyfs. He said "This must be a combo trick - but I'll take it" and blocks with one Goyf to kill my Germ. EOT he plays Abrupt Decay on my Stoneforge leaving me with only Nemesis. He played Liliana in his Turn with a big smile and I responded with flashing in Snapcaster.
He had to uptick liliana and I discarded Brainstorm having Council's Judgment in Hand as safety button. With already five lands in play I equipped Nemesis with Batterskull and killed
Liliana going up to 38 Lifes. Later I attacked him from 21 to 14 to 7 to 0.

Finals Momme featuring Imperial Painter 0:2
We split prices but decided to play it out for the honour.
It's funny that we actually meet again in the finals after ID'ing in Round 3.
This was again one of my best magic games in a while, we both had a lot of fun that day battling against each other.
Game 1 he Mooned me out of the Game.
Game 2 I have an answer to all of his Painters but he lays an Ensnaring Bridge. I find Jace in my Dig Through Time
and start Fatesealing him, as he played all of his cards to ensure the Bridge will be enough. After a very long grind he checked
if he can mill me faster with his two Grindstones in play, than my Jace. He quickly calculated and started milling the best he could.
Later I had to Brainstorm to ensure that two different colors were on top while still having counters and fateseals to prevent REB for my Jace.
In the end I Jace ultimated him but his Grindstone was one card faster.

I won: 1 Tundra (revised), 1 Bloodmoon (TheDark, now I don't have to buy one for myself) and we split 1 Badlands (FBB, DE) in cash.

Thanks everyone involved in this sweet tournament. Make sure to read all the stories on http://eternal-clash.com
If you are interested in the colored perfect size sleeves I played you can check out:
http://Bordifies.com

~screallix

P.S: Sorry for the long post, I don't even have a potato for you :(

[Hrothgar]

Yeah, if it's chalice giving you fits, Ratchet Bomb is better here as its capable of doing a lot of work against the whole of MUD.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

Yes but Chalice @2 destroy this plan.
The first Chalice enter the battlefield @1 and the 2nd @2.
I play the Engineered at converted mana cost =0

Anyway i try the Ratchet this Week and post my impressions.
Thank you for advice man!

:)

[lost_ronin_soul]

Sorry guys to leave you hanging , I have a separate thread dedicated to red splash. But here is a breakdown of what went down when I took down legacy in Syracuse for the Premier IQ. I been a little broke lately so sunday was the first time in a while I could play.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82342

Creatures (9)
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Terminus
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Ponder
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Lands (21)
4 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
Sideboard (15)
3 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Rest in Peace
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict

(No dig through times XP. Jace/snapcaster is enough card advantage to play draw-go)

Round 1: Evan on Miracles 2-1

Win the coin flip , I get a batterskull and get to 32 life. I lose to a resolved entreat the angels on 4 eating at my 32 life in two turns. Game two I get snap caster beats for a while then stoneforge batterskull backup. It was close, but I win game three on turns by flipping top to counter a terminus on my attack when he was a mana shy from paying for it.

Round 2 bryan: bug delver 2-1

I smash game one with batterksull online against a flipped delver. Game two I lose to a play mistake of having double tarn without cracking them in response to a pithing needle so I scoop when my top deck tundra gets wastelanded. Game three I kept a shaky hand that I can get potentially waste landed out of the game but has a playable stoenforge. Myopponent draws too many cards off ponder and gets a loss on turn 3
:-/

Round 3: Quin onDredge/(with lands)2-0
Game one I use snapcaster bolt trick to hold off ichrid attacks while getting rid of bridges without creating tokens. first snap caster bolt trick exiles 2 bridges, the third in late game grabs another. I stabilize and he eventually decks. Game two, I keep a hand with engineered explosives and rest in peace. It was over in quick.... I cast engineered explosives to avoid a potential cabal therapy's down the road, He plays nature's claim on it. I cast rest in peace and proceed to the win phase with jace two turns later.

Round 4:Joey delver
I win game one I get witled down to one life facing a flipped delver and a unflipped delver with only snap caster on the ground. It was close and it came down to me casting a vendilion clique to trade with a flipped delver and then me getting lucky with brainstorm to hit a non-fetch land to get me to my 5th mana to cast sword of fire and ice on a snapcaster to handle an unflipped delver. If my opponent had better luck flipping delver I would have lost. Game two I get to draw a bit of jace but he finally gets a tarmogofy through with abrupt decay back up to get me, game 3 we went to turns and drew

Round 5 : Ted McCulskie on shardless bug 0-2
I just got smashed 0-2. its a bad matchup. Shardless agent hitting visions , thought seize and hymns all day long. even saw a tasigur


Round 6:tim miracle (edit: found my scored board) 2-1

Game one I am facing a naked counterbalance (no top) and I cast an end of Tim's turn vendilin clique to see if the coast is clear for jace. I resolve my Jace. I fateseal. He untaps and council judgement my jace. I cast jace number 2 and fate seal him out of the game. Game two he resolve an early vendilion clique and gets me before I can answer it. Game three I get a batterskull down and it gets council judgement after a single attack but I get snapcaster online with sword of fire and ice for a nice 6 a turn effect.

Round 7:chris on maverick 2-0

I got the play. On game one, I terminus on my turn 3, a scavenging ooze ,mother of runes, and dryad arbor and then jace him out. Game 2 I get there as well but I almost messed up a ponder by almost drawing a terminus. I put 3 cards back and then realized I didn't draw (terminus is on top). Called a judge, but I couldn't undo the order, but I was allowed to shuffle and get out of it. The ponder wasn’t great but it beat having a miracle stuck in hand

Top 8: I get in on the 8th seat

Round: Elliot Wolchesky on miracles 8
I lose game one to miracles. But games 2 and 3 I get under it and win keeping counterbalance and jace off the table. I even used Engineered explosives to handle an entreat the angels resolution

Round 9: Drew Brantner on miracles
I lose game one to miracles. But game in game two I keep a shaky hand with force of will x2,ponder and spell pierce, stoneforge mystic and 2 non blue lands and go for the early stoneforge and get there. Game 3 I get under it and win keeping counterbalance and jace off the table

Round 10: Wilkin Chau on dead guy ale 2-0
I have to keep dark confidant off the board as quick as I can games one and two. I swept up lingering soul tokens and dark confidants up with terminus. I even had a sweet batterskull facing lingering souls tokens that pyroclasm quickly mopped up game two.

games miracles my sideboard strategy was to board out lightning bolt x4 and terminus x4 for flusterstorm (helps win counter wars significantly and was very relevant) x 3, engineered explosives x2 (good for counterbalance and angel tokens) and red elemental blast x3 (helps take care of dig through time, jace, and counterbalance and is snapcasterable)

I sideboard against bug by bringing in Engineered explosives x2 supreme verdict x1, and pyroclasm x1


If red splash wants to be discussed more freely I have a separate thread.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?25569-American-Blade-(legacy-U-W-R-control))

[Secretly.A.Bee]

What lists have been putting results on this last months? UW Ones? Esper ones? If you check tcdecks almost all of them are splashing red, and i can totally understand why.

Dig Through Time is the card that made this deck good again, and allows it to fight against Shardless Bug and Miracles (this decks are quite huge in Europe) on the same level.

And you know what is good to fight against Dig Through Time, Counterbalances, Jaces and Ancestral Visions? Pyroblast? Red elemental blast?

At the same time it allows you to play Blood Moon, that helps a lot against BUG decks and weird matchups like lands, and if you play in a fair meta you can play Lightning Bolt.

I'm totally fine with people not splashing red but no need to be so fussy about it [emoji2]

Counterbalance is also a nice option in this deck, i have nothing against it, but the list i have posted is the one that has been giving me the best results and that i will most probably play at GP Kyoto.

And i do believe that this deck took UWR Delver place in the DTB section.
I'm not saying that red is a bad splash, I'm saying it's hard to progress any other build for all the people suggesting red. I don't think red is the best, I think it's the easiest build to play. REBs are blue spells with a red cc. Blood Moon is okay for specific matchups, but it's not necessarily any better than B2B. Lightning Bolt is junk as far as removal goes, but when you play TNN, obviously it's a faster clock on your opponent since you won't need to waste said removal on bockers. I think that may have the most to do with why it's winning. That and not many legacy grinders are playing other builds, as most players straight-up net-deck. This leads me to my previous statement. I am wanting to discuss UW builds here, but when red constantly is shoved at me, I can't work on my build, and then I get people like you who don't get this concept and continue to push red further from this misguided standpoint. But don't worry. I gave up and went to BUG. It's not like Stoneblade is making it big. They'll fall back down next month and UWr Delver will slide back up.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Collman]

Blood Moon is okay for specific matchups, but it's not necessarily any better than B2B.

Blood Moon is a lotter better than B2B, them having mountains is a lot better than them having Lotus Petals.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'd like to hear your reasons. It also has performed better than "okay" for me.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

So have you ever played b2b, or is this just something that you believe? I own both and I'm not saying Blood Moon is bad, I just don't think it's worth the splash. That puts blood moon in a 3 color deck and honestly, other than lands (where b2b is honestly just as good) and Bug (where b2b is only situationally worse), I don't think it makes a difference to the point of splashing a 3rd color. I'd rather make spells like Spell Pierce better and relevant longer/again, whereas Blood Moon can make it worse (no blue to play it, still allows them to pay 2). Furthermore, B2B shuts off Dryad Arbor but blog moon just makes it a 1/1 mountain creature. There's more, but I'm on my phone and I'm tired from work. More on this tomorrow (I'm off), but I'd like to point out that Joe Bernal plays B2B in Esper to much success.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[lost_ronin_soul]

So have you ever played b2b, or is this just something that you believe? I own both and I'm not saying Blood Moon is bad, I just don't think it's worth the splash. That puts blood moon in a 3 color deck and honestly, other than lands (where b2b is honestly just as good) and Bug (where b2b is only situationally worse), I don't think it makes a difference to the point of splashing a 3rd color. I'd rather make spells like Spell Pierce better and relevant longer/again, whereas Blood Moon can make it worse (no blue to play it, still allows them to pay 2). Furthermore, B2B shuts off Dryad Arbor but blog moon just makes it a 1/1 mountain creature. There's more, but I'm on my phone and I'm tired from work. More on this tomorrow (I'm off), but I'd like to point out that Joe Bernal plays B2B in Esper to much success.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I've done testing with blood moon. I took it out on the way to Syracuse(no regrets). I have played enough turbodrazi matchups where I just never find it. It does help against lands but I can win with out it. I has tested magus of the moon and that seemed sweet here and there and I preferred him in the main as a 2 of when I tried it out. I am sure blood moon can help against bug here and there, but I feel like I leave myself vulnerable to what they already have on the field. I just don't want to fight a goyf/tasigur/flipped delver and draw a moon over removal. It is typically the card I sideboarded in the least when it was in my sideboard. (which sucks because I like it because mine is shiney) I think back to basic attacks on a similar angle and one of my buddy tested it a lot and wasn't too impressed with b2b.

[Collman]

So have you ever played b2b, or is this just something that you believe? ... I'd like to point out that Joe Bernal plays B2B in Esper to much success.


I've actually played with it quite a bit after seeing it in the maindeck of a Joe Bernal list quite some time ago. I still prefer Blood Moon. Looking forward to the rest.

Cheers.

[redesign1991]

Is Esper still viable or is the red splash simply better? I'm looking into the possibility to create an Esper Stoneblade deck since I own most cards for that manabase and it would save me some money. Also could someone provide me with a more recent Esper list?

[Poron]

we play no Mountains so blue fetches are all ehat you need. If Volcanic are too expensive you can use the 2 life lands.. normally they have the very same effect of the dual land

[HSCK]

I'm not saying that red is a bad splash, I'm saying it's hard to progress any other build for all the people suggesting red. I don't think red is the best, I think it's the easiest build to play. REBs are blue spells with a red cc. Blood Moon is okay for specific matchups, but it's not necessarily any better than B2B. Lightning Bolt is junk as far as removal goes, but when you play TNN, obviously it's a faster clock on your opponent since you won't need to waste said removal on bockers. I think that may have the most to do with why it's winning. That and not many legacy grinders are playing other builds, as most players straight-up net-deck. This leads me to my previous statement. I am wanting to discuss UW builds here, but when red constantly is shoved at me, I can't work on my build, and then I get people like you who don't get this concept and continue to push red further from this misguided standpoint. But don't worry. I gave up and went to BUG. It's not like Stoneblade is making it big. They'll fall back down next month and UWr Delver will slide back up.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!


Straight UW has one good performance in the last year. And if you don't want to talk about Stoneblade then you can stop posting, no one's forcing you to.

[lost_ronin_soul]

we play no Mountains so blue fetches are all that you need. If Volcanic are too expensive you can use the 2 life lands.. normally they have the very same effect of the dual land

I play a basic mountain. I do it to allow lightning bolt to stay in against wasteland decks that runs creatures.


Is Esper still viable or is the red splash simply better? I'm looking into the possibility to create an Esper Stoneblade deck since I own most cards for that manabase and it would save me some money. Also could someone provide me with a more recent Esper list?

I think Esper, is REALLY REALLY good. That being said, I prefer Red Splash personally. As for which is better, I believe depends completely on the pilot of the deck. I am very familiar with my red splash list because it has been my primary deck for a few years now. This is very dual land light list but is kind of a rouge deck (3 blue duals, 1 non blue) and runs terminus and sensei diving top. Which ever deck you are more familiar with is probably the better deck for you as you will be able to recognize more outs in bad situations, as well as identify better lines of play through any given game and matchup.

some recent lists off star city in the past 30days (I think its actually all stone blade lists off starcity in the past 30 days)
Red splash 1st place Syracuse 5K Premier IQ
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82342

Esper Death Blade 5K Premier IQ Richmond's 26th Place
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82031

Richmond 11th Place invitational blue white
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=81895

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Straight UW has one good performance in the last year. And if you don't want to talk about Stoneblade then you can stop posting, no one's forcing you to.
Someone put their mommy pants on.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[useL]

Is Esper still viable or is the red splash simply better? I'm looking into the possibility to create an Esper Stoneblade deck since I own most cards for that manabase and it would save me some money. Also could someone provide me with a more recent Esper list?

Hi.
If we talk about main deck the red splash is better versus a creature based meta. You have the Lightning Bolt as your secondary removal. Esper brings discard instead to the main deck and some value creatures like Lingering Souls and Tasigur. I would say that this list is better versus a control/combo meta.


Sideboards are also different of course. The red splash offers red blasts and cards as blood moon and keranos where esper offers more discard, zealous persecution and sweepers like perish/toxic deluge.

It all comes down to what kind of game you want to play and what creatures you fancy. If you face alot of storm/reanimator/mirakles I would go with esper. If you are up against alot of dnt/shardless/blade I would play jeskai.

In this thread theres a huge swing of people playing with Lightning Bolt. I believe that depends on two things, first of all some of the players derive from patriot-lists and they grew tired of Delver and the second half is that it is easier to recover from a mistake with a Lightning Bolt list than the esper list.

I have tried both and I would say theres a huge difference in both playstyle and how the games pan out. I am going to GP Lille and have decided that esper is better than jeskai at the moment. The question remains though; should I play Monastery Mentor or not =)

[useL]

No wonder we got bumped down to Established decks again, this thread is more silent than my grandmothers grave.

[redesign1991]

Hi.
If we talk about main deck the red splash is better versus a creature based meta. You have the Lightning Bolt as your secondary removal. Esper brings discard instead to the main deck and some value creatures like Lingering Souls and Tasigur. I would say that this list is better versus a control/combo meta.


Sideboards are also different of course. The red splash offers red blasts and cards as blood moon and keranos where esper offers more discard, zealous persecution and sweepers like perish/toxic deluge.

It all comes down to what kind of game you want to play and what creatures you fancy. If you face alot of storm/reanimator/mirakles I would go with esper. If you are up against alot of dnt/shardless/blade I would play jeskai.

In this thread theres a huge swing of people playing with Lightning Bolt. I believe that depends on two things, first of all some of the players derive from patriot-lists and they grew tired of Delver and the second half is that it is easier to recover from a mistake with a Lightning Bolt list than the esper list.

I have tried both and I would say theres a huge difference in both playstyle and how the games pan out. I am going to GP Lille and have decided that esper is better than jeskai at the moment. The question remains though; should I play Monastery Mentor or not =)

Thanks for pointing it out like this!

[Hrothgar]

Hi.
If we talk about main deck the red splash is better versus a creature based meta. You have the Lightning Bolt as your secondary removal. Esper brings discard instead to the main deck and some value creatures like Lingering Souls and Tasigur. I would say that this list is better versus a control/combo meta.

Sideboards are also different of course. The red splash offers red blasts and cards as blood moon and keranos where esper offers more discard, zealous persecution and sweepers like perish/toxic deluge.

It all comes down to what kind of game you want to play and what creatures you fancy. If you face alot of storm/reanimator/mirakles I would go with esper. If you are up against alot of dnt/shardless/blade I would play jeskai.

The discard effects are great vs every deck imho.
An example: i try the esper version vs MUD and work very good.
For a creatures based meta, some cards like Toxic deluge and Liliana help us.

Anyway a play the UWR version because have double power imho:
Blast effects give a great control vs counter, jace, and tempo deck...
Bolt are good vs creatures like Deathrite, Confidant, some elves.
I have access to cards like Pyroclasm and Blood Moon...very strong in some situations.
I like Wear/Tear.




In this thread theres a huge swing of people playing with Lightning Bolt. I believe that depends on two things, first of all some of the players derive from patriot-lists and they grew tired of Delver and the second half is that it is easier to recover from a mistake with a Lightning Bolt list than the esper list.

I quote this.
My firts deck is Miracle but my 2nd was Patriot...now i change into UWR Blade control.
This deck are more solid than Patriot and give some defense option that I like.

I miss my Wasteland...
About Wasteland and tempo i have see a good list in the Kyoto GP:

Creatures [10]
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [23]
1 Mana Leak
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Dig Through Time
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle

Sorceries [2]
2 Ponder

Planeswalkers [1]
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [22]
1 Arid Mesa
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Plateau
2 Island
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

Some ideas?




I have tried both and I would say theres a huge difference in both playstyle and how the games pan out. I am going to GP Lille and have decided that esper is better than jeskai at the moment. The question remains though; should I play Monastery Mentor or not =)

Yes, are 2 different approach.
Maybe the Esper version are more solid but in this time imho UWR version are guile in this meta.

;)

I don't like Monastery Mentor in this deck.
In the Esper version I like Confidant, You have try it?

[useL]

Hrothgar:

1) The list with wasteland in it I heard was a metacall due to everyone playing Boseiju in their omnitell lists. It seems reasonable though after I had this discussion with my friend I came to the conclusion that if you play Jace TMS it might be contraproductive to play wasteland. On turn three, waste for tempo or save for jace? It also brings a rocky manabase.

2) I have tried some Dark Confidant but am not sure if its the right card in MD. Drawing extra cards are nice but the creature itself applies very little pressure against most decks. Maybe it is a better sideboard card than my venser/notion-thief duo that I run at the moment?

3) What is so wrong with Mentor? I have seen that miracles nowadays have them in their sideboard instead of the mystic package they used to have. He is a really fine threat on an empty board. He can quite fast deal 6-8 damage with his minions. I am merely considering him instead of one Lingering Souls in my deck. I like to diversify threats and right now I run 4 Stoneforge, 2 Snapcasters, 1 TNN, 3 Lingering, 1 Clique and 2 JTMS as wincons.

[Hrothgar]

1) The list with wasteland in it I heard was a metacall due to everyone playing Boseiju in their omnitell lists. It seems reasonable though after I had this discussion with my friend I came to the conclusion that if you play Jace TMS it might be contraproductive to play wasteland. On turn three, waste for tempo or save for jace? It also brings a rocky manabase.

This is right.
If I play a classic Stoneblade, i like my solid manabase and I have not conflict Jace vs Waste.
I have seen different list (normally UW) that who play some copies of Wasteland and Mishra, but the lands count go to 24.

Specifically, the list that I have post, have a good tempo concept, with 4x Waste and 4x Stifle.
An experiment? Yes, but with VERY good results.

Players at the start: 1945 - final result: 5 position

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16756&iddeck=125533

I want to try the list in consideration of this.




2) I have tried some Dark Confidant but am not sure if its the right card in MD. Drawing extra cards are nice but the creature itself applies very little pressure against most decks. Maybe it is a better sideboard card than my venser/notion-thief duo that I run at the moment?

The meaning of this 3 cards are totally different imho.
Maybe this are meta choise.




3) What is so wrong with Mentor? I have seen that miracles nowadays have them in their sideboard instead of the mystic package they used to have. He is a really fine threat on an empty board. He can quite fast deal 6-8 damage with his minions. I am merely considering him instead of one Lingering Souls in my deck. I like to diversify threats and right now I run 4 Stoneforge, 2 Snapcasters, 1 TNN, 3 Lingering, 1 Clique and 2 JTMS as wincons.

If Your idea is replace the Lingering souls with the Monastery Mentor I'm fully in accord with you, I don't like Lingering if I don't play a 3rd equipment.

I work in viewpoint UWR and i don't find the slots for the Mentor.
Forgot about the Miracle lists with Mentor, this deck work too different.

[rancOr_]

I think Esper is pretty good positioned aswell now. The fact that u have discard and potential hatebears to complement counters is nice vs the Omnitell (and other combo)decks. And Esper never had troubles playing against Delver decks either..
SFM can go in favor of Monastery Mentor/Tasigur. I feel like it isnt needed anymore and Mentor gives the deck another angle and fast way to gain control of the board if left unchecked.

[useL]

I am considering a EsperBlade chat on facebook. If you are interested and are not completely new to the archetype then please send me a notice (private message) here on thesource and we can make something happen. Easier to chat about small things there than writing posts here in some cases.

[TnA_Will]

Is Esper still viable or is the red splash simply better? I'm looking into the possibility to create an Esper Stoneblade deck since I own most cards for that manabase and it would save me some money. Also could someone provide me with a more recent Esper list?


Here is the Esper version I have been running. (Granted this is sort of a hybrid between Blade and u/w/b standstill style deck) It's not very far off from the R splash though.... I have chosen a more agro/temp style of Esper(which is like the young pyromancer version of Jeskai Stoneblade; instead of the snap caster/Jace control/tempo style. Young Pyromancer R splash can run Pyromancer, digs, probes, lightning bolts, and pyro blasts. In those slots I run Bitter Blossom, StandStill, Spell Stutter Sprite, (more) Ponder/spell pierce, and STP.

Because of the tempo style and the complimentary fact of Standstill I run Mutavaults (helps with beats and can help with Fae Count for Sprites) instead of Wasteland or additional colored mana sources, and I run 1 of Tar Pit for beats as well.

Likewise in the board the R splash gives them pyroblast and Lavamancer and I use the B splash for access to Zealous Persecution. I have thought about testing Myth Realized in the deck but have yet to try it.

Here is the decklist I'm currently on:

Lands (23)
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Creatures (10)

3 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis


Other Spells (27)
1 Batterskull
4 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
3 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

The sideboard is configured heavily for anti combo, because in local meta there is a lot of it running around and not nearly as many fair decks...

Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Flusterstorm
3 Rest in Peace
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Supreme Verdict

[TnA_Will]

Is Esper still viable or is the red splash simply better? I'm looking into the possibility to create an Esper Stoneblade deck since I own most cards for that manabase and it would save me some money. Also could someone provide me with a more recent Esper list?


Here is the Esper version I have been running. (Granted this is sort of a hybrid between Blade and u/w/b standstill style deck) It's not very far off from the R splash though.... I have chosen a more agro/temp style of Esper(which is like the young pyromancer version of Jeskai Stoneblade; instead of the snap caster/Jace control/tempo style. Young Pyromancer R splash can run Pyromancer, digs, probes, lightning bolts, and pyro blasts. In those slots I run Bitter Blossom, StandStill, Spell Stutter Sprite, (more) Ponder/spell pierce, and STP.

Because of the tempo style and the complimentary fact of Standstill I run Mutavaults (helps with beats and can help with Fae Count for Sprites) instead of Wasteland or additional colored mana sources, and I run 1 of Tar Pit for beats as well.

Likewise in the board the R splash gives them pyroblast and Lavamancer and I use the B splash for access to Zealous Persecution. I have thought about testing Myth Realized in the deck but have yet to try it.

Here is the decklist I'm currently on:

Lands (23)
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
4 Mutavault
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

Creatures (10)

3 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis


Other Spells (27)
1 Batterskull
4 Bitterblossom
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
3 Standstill
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte

The sideboard is configured heavily for anti combo, because in local meta there is a lot of it running around and not nearly as many fair decks...

Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Flusterstorm
3 Rest in Peace
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Supreme Verdict

[Hrothgar]

This Jeskai blade control list finish 7th at Cliveland's open:


Creatures (10)

2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

Planeswalkers (2)

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)

2 Island
1 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas

Spells (26)

1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
3 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Council's Judgment

Sideboard
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Containment Priest
2 Blood Moon
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict


Very good performance in a top 16 with 10 different archetypes.


Noteworthy MD:

- 4 Tundra
- 3 DTT
- 2 Council's Judgment

Noteworthy SB:

- 1 SoFaF
- 1 Baneslayer
- 3 Surgical

Imho this is a solid list and the only cards i don't like are the 2x spell pierce, 'cause the deck have not control on opponent's lands. I play 2x Spell Snare and they work very good.

In sideboard i love 2x Containment Priest and 2x Blood Moon.
1 Pyroclasm and 1 Supreme Verdict give more control vs creatures.

The only problem of this list is, imho, the absence of Ponder.

[h2o]

Hey Hrothgar, that was me :cool:

My overall strategy with the deck is: do 1 for 1 trades early, Brainstorm, and set up a Dig through Time. Dig for the correct threats and then switch to being proactive.

Let me comment on my deck choices:

4 Tundra/2 Volc: I prefer to fetch Volcanics Just In Time when you're going to cast something. I don't like to leave them around waiting to get Wastelanded, instead baiting them to waste my white sources. Also with so many double white cards, naturally drawing a nonwhite source sucks. The only thing you potentially lose out on here is Bolt-Snap-Bolt plays.

1 Plains: I used to run 2 so I could play double white cards under Blood Moon, but I cut a Plains for the 12th Fetch when I added a second Clique (cutting the forth StP).

0 Ponder: Ponder is an excellent turn 1 play, and an excellent late game play, but it is bad on turns 2-5 which is where most of Legacy happens. This deck is mana-hungry and I just think it is so important to pass with as much mana available as possible unless you are playing a threat.

2 Spell Pierce: A concession to shenanigans like Chalice, Trinisphere, Grim Monolith, and Liliana. It might be the worst card in the 60 but it can save your ass sometimes.

3 Dig: This card is essential. It is the lifeblood of control archetypes these days. I don't know whether it's correct to run 3 or 4, but I've lost games to having multiples in my hand before.

2 Council's Judgment: A concession to Miracles, D&T, TNN, planeswalkers, and MUD. Yes, MUD is a real deck. Some advocate a 1:1 split - you could trade it for a Pyroblast in the main if you have a lot of blue decks in the meta. I brought in Pyroblast less than 50% of the time last weekend.

1 Feast and Famine: I see no reason not to play this card, it's good in all of the matchups that Jitte is not, you don't want to run just 1 equipment, and there are some matchups where you want all 3 equipment.

1 Baneslayer: This is one of the haymaker cards against BUG Delver, along with Blood Moon. Abrupt Decay decks usually have no out to Baneslayer aside from Liliana or Toxic Deluge. Also an extra threat in grindy matchups.

2 Blood Moon: This is the only card (besides not yet owning Underground Seas) keeping me from playing Esper control lists. It's so good, it's an auto win against BUG if they tap out, RUG if they can't find a Forest for Grip, and UWR Delver has no answer to it. Great against Post and MUD, but not an auto-win. In retrospect I should have brought it in against Infect (my only loss in Swiss).

1 Supreme Verdict: This card does so much work. Pyroclasm is risky but has its upsides in some matchups.

3 Surgical: Your graveyard hate is dicey because you are playing Dig and Snapcaster. Rest in Peace and Grafdiggers are very awkward. I still haven't won against Dredge with the Surgical+Priest combo in 3 matches, it's kind of a punt. Surgical also does work against Punishing Fire and Loam decks.

My local meta (KidForce Collectibles in Berea, OH) has a very interesting meta because there's always 12 Post, MUD, and some sort of Lands deck. So I was used to playing against those cards and being prepared for them.

Results

Legacy Plus event on Saturday: 3-0-1. Drew against Rw Painter, wins against BUG Delver, UWR Delver (the 10th place finisher on Sunday), and D&T.

Legacy IQ: Beat Jund and MUD, lost to Infect, Beat BUG Delver (Danny Jessup), Jund again, Storm, and MUD again. Only won that match because he missed his Coercive Portal trigger. Drew with MUD in round 8. Yes, I somehow found 3 out of the 4 MUD players in the room.

Top 8 vs Miracles

I win G1 after beating him down to 7 or 6. He goes down to 3 off of Fetches and Forces, and I find the Lightning Bolt.

G2: I brought in 2 Surgicals (my friends and I later agreed this was a mistake). I have a Clique, F&F, and Batterskull in play, and Baneslayer in hand (he's at 9). He casts Terminus off Top on my turn with no cards left in hand. I Surgical the Terminus forcing him to shuffle away his Top. He topdecks Top for his turn anyways! I play Baneslayer, he finds Council's Judgement. I replay Batterskull, he finds Snapcaster flashing back Council's.

G3 he gets an early Clique to strip my hand and beat me down easily.

My only 2 losses throughout the weekend were to players from my LGS. We have a tough crowd on Tuesdays there!

[useL]

Nice report and well done. It is no wonder you lost to Miracles. You have 0 good cards to bring in against them, maybe a few cards that can be used in more matchups?

[anwei]

0 Ponder: Ponder is an excellent turn 1 play, and an excellent late game play, but it is bad on turns 2-5 which is where most of Legacy happens. This deck is mana-hungry and I just think it is so important to pass with as much mana available as possible unless you are playing a threat.


I think this is the most helpful sentence I've read, about any deck, in like a year. I've had Ponder counts all over the place (well, 1-4) in playtesting and small events, and this exactly comports with my experience (or at least justifies my desire to cut them while keeping a higher DTT count).

[rancOr_]

Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

[redesign1991]

So I recently made an enquiry towards building an Esper list because I think Stoneblade is the best place to fit my SFM's and because I have a playset of Flooded, Polluted and 2 U. Sea's from playing reanimator and converging it into UWr would be too expensive for the time being. I've been creating a pretty basic list and I've ended up with something like this:

Creatures (9)
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique

Instants & Sorceries (25)
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Lingering Souls
2x Dig Through Time
2x Spell Pierce
2x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will

Artifacts (2)
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Marsh Flats
2x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
5x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp

I haven't got a single Tundra yet, hence for the time being I've only listed 2. I know that 4 is obviously better but I'm working on a budget.

I assume that when choosing between Clique, TNN and Snappy, the latter one is the worst option to play in Esper, right? Would you consider Thoughtseize more of a sideboard card in this type of deck or not? Also, is going on a heavy discard route a thing with this deck? Like say Hymn and maybe Liliana?

Please be honest and let me know if the list is good or absolute crap, but keep into consideration that I'm new to Legacy and this archtype.

[Einherjer]

Just chiming in here quickly to point you towards a deck that might just be what you're looking for: Esper, Stoneblade, and not 4 of every dual land.

Take a look at this Esper list played by Valentin Mackl at one of the tournaments that I organised. There are 5 cards missing from the decklist, 4 of them are Thought Scour. No idea what the last one is. :D

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16222&iddeck=121209

Greetings

[redesign1991]

That looks like an interesting list to me of which I actually own almost all the cards. It also looks like it would save me some money. At first glance I'd say Batterskull was missing but then I noticed it's in the sideboard. Another error in the list seems to be that there's 4 Thoughtseize MD and 1 side. But it's definitely a list that points me into a good direction for what I was looking to create. Thanks for sharing!

[h2o]

Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

This is true, but I'm not yet convinced it's worth the slots. Another consideration is that we have so many shuffle effects that if you see 2-3 good cards you might have to shuffle some away to fetch or Stoneforge.

All that being said, the Legacy IQ was only my first major event with the deck so I don't consider myself an expert. I just make observations based on my experiences and the advice of my playgroup. I welcome others to share their opinions and back them up.

[TnA_Will]

I assume that when choosing between Clique, TNN and Snappy, the latter one is the worst option to play in Esper, right? Would you consider Thoughtseize more of a sideboard card in this type of deck or not? Also, is going on a heavy discard route a thing with this deck? Like say Hymn and maybe Liliana?

Please be honest and let me know if the list is good or absolute crap, but keep into consideration that I'm new to Legacy and this archtype.

I think the very first question you need to ask yourself is what type of STM/Blade deck you are wanting to build. It seems over the last year this archtype has branched out to go from Control to Tempo and even Aggro builds...

If you are wanting to run Jace in an esper list then that makes you more of a control list and Snapcaster and thoughtseize and even Liliana are good choices for that type of deck! If you are wanting to play more Tempo/Control then pairing up with snap caster, Lingering souls and fire and ice seem like a good fit.

If you are wanting to go more agro/temp then replacing the Cliques with TNN and running batterskull, sword and Jitte are pretty aggressive! The list that someone linked to seems to fit more of the Tempo/Control style and using the controlling elements of Thoughtseize, Jace, and STP with the tempo of Lingering Souls/STM and snapcasters... To me in that deck if they want to run 4x Thought Scour I would add another Threat of Tasigur because it could be another tempo threat and add more playability to the GY cards!

So it really does depend on your play style and how you want to take the deck. Personally I'm trying really hard to get an Aggro/Tempo build to work well... Still testing and tweaking but I love TNN!

[h2o]

Stoneblade has a higher top 8 market share than any other archetype in the last 10 months according to http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE

can someone please explain why it's in the same forum as Food Chain and Eva Green

[Hrothgar]

Hey Hrothgar, that was me :cool:

Great h2o, great performance and final result!
Your position is good stuff for us!



My overall strategy with the deck is: do 1 for 1 trades early, Brainstorm, and set up a Dig through Time. Dig for the correct threats and then switch to being proactive.

This is one of the right way to play the deck.



Let me comment on my deck choices:

4 Tundra/2 Volc: I prefer to fetch Volcanics Just In Time when you're going to cast something. I don't like to leave them around waiting to get Wastelanded, instead baiting them to waste my white sources. Also with so many double white cards, naturally drawing a nonwhite source sucks. The only thing you potentially lose out on here is Bolt-Snap-Bolt plays.

This is right...
I'm Miracle player and I like to play with many basic lands, but this deck is so different and I want try this your solution.



1 Plains: I used to run 2 so I could play double white cards under Blood Moon, but I cut a Plains for the 12th Fetch when I added a second Clique (cutting the forth StP).

Uhm...i don't understand how you can play only BB cards under Blood Moon..



0 Ponder: Ponder is an excellent turn 1 play, and an excellent late game play, but it is bad on turns 2-5 which is where most of Legacy happens. This deck is mana-hungry and I just think it is so important to pass with as much mana available as possible unless you are playing a threat.

Imho this is a mid-control deck that frequently arrives in the late game.
I like Ponders but your speech have a reason.
I want to try.


2 Spell Pierce: A concession to shenanigans like Chalice, Trinisphere, Grim Monolith, and Liliana. It might be the worst card in the 60 but it can save your ass sometimes.

Imho this deck don't have mana source control and i prefer the solidity of Spell Snare at Spell Pierce.


3 Dig: This card is essential. It is the lifeblood of control archetypes these days. I don't know whether it's correct to run 3 or 4, but I've lost games to having multiples in my hand before.

2 or 3 is the right way imho.
I play 4x DTT into Golddigger but multiple copies in hand are bad stuff, especially in a meta with Deathrite Shaman o other graveyeard control.


2 Council's Judgment: A concession to Miracles, D&T, TNN, planeswalkers, and MUD. Yes, MUD is a real deck. Some advocate a 1:1 split - you could trade it for a Pyroblast in the main if you have a lot of blue decks in the meta. I brought in Pyroblast less than 50% of the time last weekend.

I don't like soma cards like Pyroblast o similar.
I don't want deadly cards vs the non-blue deck.
I quote your thoughts about this.


2 Blood Moon: This is the only card (besides not yet owning Underground Seas) keeping me from playing Esper control lists. It's so good, it's an auto win against BUG if they tap out, RUG if they can't find a Forest for Grip, and UWR Delver has no answer to it. Great against Post and MUD, but not an auto-win. In retrospect I should have brought it in against Infect (my only loss in Swiss).

Quote



3 Surgical: Your graveyard hate is dicey because you are playing Dig and Snapcaster. Rest in Peace and Grafdiggers are very awkward. I still haven't won against Dredge with the Surgical+Priest combo in 3 matches, it's kind of a punt. Surgical also does work against Punishing Fire and Loam decks.

Right analysis imho.
Rest in Peace are a total lock vs some deck and nullify Deathrite and Tarmo....but Dig and Snappy goes trouble (especially Dig)

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Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

This is the way I play in this time.
The solidity of the deck are helped from this cards.

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And now a decklist, played in Italy and positioned 2nd at MKM series in Roma (202 players):


Creatures [10]
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [20]
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [4]
4 Ponder

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [20]
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Tundra
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand

1 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear // Tear
2 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
1 Engineered Explosives

Imho this is one of the strongest version of the deck.
In my meta, full of wasteland, i have only changed in the main deck 1 Volcanic into a 1 Mountain (and obviously, the sideboard) and i have a great manabase,creatures game, control's element, planeswalker etc etc.

[Misplayer]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Depends on what version you are running. UW, a splash? Which splash. Honestly, Pierce and actual Counterspell are my choices. Snare is great when it's good, but just crap in so many other ways that I just avoid those disappointing situations by not playing snare.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[h2o]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

Like in many matchups, Pierce is better on the play and Snare is better on the draw.

[useL]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?


Snare is horrible against decks where it is horrible and great against the decks that it's great against. It is sort of like Swords to Plowshares. I play Spell Snare to be able to counter important things that might swing the game early and late. I am mostly afraid of three things with my esper build - Hymn to Tourach, Stoneforge Mystic and Counterbalance. Those three spells on opponents turn 2 are the most frightening if I can not answer them. I can counter two of them with Spell Pierce but this can not be done on turn 4. Thus I play snare instead of pierce because I hate drawing pierce on round 8 and having a blank card. Then on the other hand Snare is dead against some decks.

I think it boils down to if you have removal for 2cmc-dudes or not. Because if you play Lightning Bolt you have more answers to Stoneforge Mystic and therefor can play Pierce instead.

[TnA_Will]

Last night I piloted the esper "hybrid" in a 10 man event and based on breakers ended up in 4th with a 2-1-1 record.

I beat Charbelcher 2 games in row thanks to being able to have the counterspells at the start of the game and my opponent not being able to get additional red mana sources quickly enough to reload and fire (game 1) and a well placed V. Clique to take belcher out of his hand on game 2 (after using counters for more mana denial).

I then beat infect. This match up is one that I have become very comfortable playing because my friend is the one piloting the deck and I have played many games against him. Tough games but I managed to get by 2-1.

Then game 3 was the best match of the night and against the deck I was trying to "mirror" by making this hybrid.... Game 3 was against the jeskai blade "aggro" deck that runs the Digs/Pyromancer/Lightning bolts/ etc.... This went to a game 3 draw and was very evenly matched! One of the more fun matches I've had in recent memory!

We took turns trading threat for threat and just when I thought in turns I might have had a chance to get it, he had a pyroclasm board sweeper to eliminate the fae tokens and everything but my TNN.

Game 4 I got paired against someone that the Jeskai deck had already beaten but seems to be a HORRIBLE match up for me!!!! Goblins! I'm not sure if it's just because it hits so quick or what it is, but game 1 I get DESTROYED and game 2 I can't battle thru turn 1 and 2 waste lands and get a white source quick enough to cast Contaiment Priest... He swarms and over powers me for the win (2-0).

All in all fun games and decent testing, I don't think I need to worry to much about Goblins on the main scene but I may change up the sideboard in local events because 2 Z.P. and 2x Containment Preists weren't enough to fight him off!

[useL]

I decided to take pictures of my sideboarding last local tournament. Missed one picture but here are three matches. I am not sure it is correctly boarded especially not against Grixis-delver. Here's my list:

CREATURES (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
SORCERIES (9)
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
2 Lingering Souls
1 Council’s Judgment
INSTANTS (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Snare
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
PLANESWALKERS (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
ARTIFACTS (2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
LANDS (22)
1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Notion Thief
1 Disenchant
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Canonist


And here's the boards:
vs jeskai blade (stoneforge x2, 1-2 tnn, cb+top, didnt see any miracles)
http://i.imgur.com/bhvXHpnl.jpg

vs grixis delver - he also had splash for green to play abrupt decay - how do you usually board against delver+hymn decks? keep force in or remove them? i was very unsure of this . also noticed I missed to take a picture of the 9th boarded card, im pretty sure it was a jace.
http://i.imgur.com/4GL45v4l.jpg

vs mud - ran into the old brown combo deck
http://i.imgur.com/Tbv8ABAl.jpg

played another match against goblins but forgot to take a picture

[Hrothgar]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

Imho in the Jeskai version, actually, Spell Snare i better than Spell Pierce.

I play 2 Spell Snare because:

- is an hard counter
- I don't have control on the mana source of my opponent (no Wasteland, no Stifle)
- Snare take more primary cards of the format

Fundamentally i can't counter discard effects with CC (1) and the planeswalkers, but imho this deck (Jeskai) can resist at this danger.

[h2o]

What do you guys think about Nahiri as a one-of in the board? Seems good against Miracles and the mirror. Costs 1 more than Jace but can't be Pyroblasted.

[Koby]

What do you guys think about Nahiri as a one-of in the board? Seems good against Miracles and the mirror. Costs 1 more than Jace but can't be Pyroblasted.

Why not just play Elspeth, Knight-Errant? She produces tokens, makes them bigger, and still only costs 4 mana. Elspeth is known technology vs Jace, and usually beats Jace in face-on PWer battles.

[beez]

True, but it does seem to have a nice synergy with Stoneforge decks and it could be useful to get back an equipment back from the grave. I've been in some grindy games with both equipment gone. The 5 mana and double white is pretty steep, but I've played Keranos, God of Storms in place of a second Jace and it's really pretty good and not too bad to cast. I may try this one in testing as I do like the synergy it might bring as a Stoneforge deck first and foremost than a general midrange control deck.

[h2o]

She also helps out in the matches where you really want a Jitte or Sword but they keep getting disenchanted. But those matchups (Maverick especially) might not let you get to 5 mana to cast her.

[beez]

Seal of Cleansing is a bit of a thing now with more Omnitell around too.

[h2o]

At the least I'll try 1 Nahiri in the board in my weeklies and see how it goes.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

If I were you I would just play a second Batterskull like BBD. It just cuts out the middle man. Nahiri is janky at best.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[chris13]

hello , i really prefer esper stoneblade with a full package of lingering souls plus 1 intuition, my decklist is :
main deck
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Intuition
4 Lingering Souls
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vindicate
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

sideboard
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Darkblast
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Zealous Persecution

my meta is full of combo decks,burn, goblins as well as lands and 12 post, what do you think should i change ? :/
i really want to board in 2-3 spell snares and maybe sword of feast and famine should i cut ponders?

[chris13]

hello , i really prefer esper stoneblade with a full package of lingering souls plus 1 intuition, my decklist is :
main deck
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Karakas
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Batterskull
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Intuition
4 Lingering Souls
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vindicate
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

sideboard
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Darkblast
1 Disenchant
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Zealous Persecution

my meta is full of combo decks,burn, goblins as well as lands and 12 post, what do you think should i change ? :/
i really want to board in 2-3 spell snares and maybe sword of fire and ice, should i cut ponders?

[h2o]

I'm going to be on the UWr train for as long as the meta is full of decks that can't beat a resolved Blood Moon

[useL]

Well, if you want to win against combo your list (maindeck) is quite bad.

I would cut some lingering souls, the intution, one snapcaster, a jace and the vindicate for more fast paced spells.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I have a UW list I've been playing that I would like to share.

1 TNN
1 Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 SFM
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Jace
3 DTT
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 StP
1 Reality Shift
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
1 Misdirection
4 FoW
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
1 Academy Ruins
2 Marsh Flats
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

My sideboard accidentally got shuffled into one of my trade boxes, so I'm working on getting it on here later tonight. Regardless of the board, anyone trying anything similar?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[h2o]

could you maybe explain why you're running thopter sword?

reality shift?

3 spell pierce?

misdirection?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Thopter Sword is strong against Miracles. It's also shown promising results against mud, both of which are a large part of my meta. It's been a boarding plan of mine for a while. I guess I don't understand the rest of the question, as it's just part of my countersuite. Do you have a more detailed question?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[TnA_Will]

I guess I don't understand the rest of the question, as it's just part of my countersuite. Do you have a more detailed question?

when I was looking at your list I sort of had the same questions. So not speaking for someone else but to ellaborate a little bit looking at your list you are running things like reality shift vs a 4th STP. Likewise you are running a Misdirection which forces you to pitch another blue card, 4 force of wills, and 3 dig thru times in a deck where you are trying to do graveyard recurssion with snapcaster/thopter/academy ruins. When you were looking at deck choices what was the idea behind the sword/thopter vs more TNN's? with you playing more of a traditional U/W I don't see you having mana problems vs Blood Moon that myself or other 3 color versions have, so more threats should help vs miracles in general.

[Misplayer]

RE: My earlier question, I ran 2x Spell Snare at my local event yesterday and I liked it quite a bit. I think I'm going to play a UWr list at SCG Worcester but I'd like some opinions on how to configure the sideboard.

I'm on a pretty standard list

2 Tundra 4 SFM
3 Volc 2 TNN
3 Island 2 Snapcaster
2 Plains 2 Clique
4 Strand
3 Tarn 1 Batterskull
2 Mesa 1 Jitte
1 Karakas 2 Jace

4 Force 4 Brainstom
2 Counterspell 4 Ponder
2 Spell Snare 3 Dig

4 Bolt
3 StP

Current SB is
2 Flusterstorm
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyro/REB (1 each)
2 Surgical
2 Wear/Tear
1 Council's Judgment
1 Pithing Needle
1 Blood Moon
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sudden Demise

I beat Miracles, Mono Black Reanimator, UR Delver and UR OmniShow. I lost to Deathblade.

I want a 2nd Blood Moon for the Deathrite/Decay matchups (and other random decks it just beats) but I also want to have a strong game against OmniShow and Miracles. Against Deathblade I lost G2 to an early Lingering Souls + flashback. I lost G3 to Liliana, though I think the deck is actually pretty good against Liliana.

My question is how to best fit a 2nd Blood Moon while maintaining an edge vs Miracles and OmniShow. And other ideas for beating Lingering Souls.

P.S. Others may already know this but I found Surgical to be insane against OmniShow. I hit Show and Tell and just won. Next game I hit Dig and stripped one out of his hand.


EDIT: it just occurred to me while browsing other threads, put in an EE instead of a Wear / Tear. That solves a lot of my problems. Still interested in what others have to say though.

[Ltj999]

So I played in our weekly legacy event yesterday and managed to go 3-0-1 with the below list. I've been bouncing around from one stoneblade list to another over the past several weeks and finally settled on this one that was posted a few pages back. The sideboard is built for our meta, hence some odd choices, but overall I was incredibly happy with this list. Spell Snare was an absolute all-star nearly every round.

Creatures [10]
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [20]
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [4]
4 Ponder
1 C-Judgment

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth Knight Errant

Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [20]
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Tundra
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Volcanic Island
1 mountain
4 Flooded Strand

Sideboard [15]
2 Flusterstorm
2 REB
2 Surgical
1 Pyroblast
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Wear/Tear
1 P-needle
1 Ruination
1 V-clique
1 Verdict
1 EE
1 COP Red

Meta was this:

2 UWR Blade
1 Esper Blade
1 UWR Miracles
2 Shardless BUG
1 BUG Delver
1 Sneak & Show
1 UWR Landstill
1 Dredge
1 Merfolk
1 Maverick
1 Lands

Round 1 Vs Miracles

Game 1 - He establishes counter-top a bit late and cant keep me off TNN swinging with counter backup
Side out -3 bolt, -3 STP, -1 Jitt, ,-1 plains +2 flusterstorm, +2 Reb, +1 pyro, +1 EE, +1 Needle, + 1 V-clique
Game 2 - He gets counter top down early and is able to keep my board clear. I'm sandbagging the EE in my hand as my hand is largely devoid of 1 drops. I forget how he wins, which is circumstantial, but he eventually is able to catch my batterskull with a disenchant after the game goes really long. I think I remember scooping to a Jace or something.
Game 3 - He lands countertop and I slam a turn 4 Elspeth. He finds the J-judgment which I flusterstorm. Elsepth goes to work as we finish in turns. I was def ahead but not enough for a realistic scoop on his part as he had a bunch of outs he could top into and a fetchland in play.

0-0-1

Round 2 Vs UWr Blade Mirror

Game 1 - He floods out like crazy while I get a TNN online. He has his own TNN out but I'm so ahead on cards in hand its over as his only line of play was Snap + bolts to finish me off from 9.
Sideboard nearly the same as miracles except swapping the needle for the Sword of Feast and Famine.

Game 2 - A little more back and fourth, I think I end up out racing his TNN with an eot clique that suits up a sword. I think this was the game that I remember pondering into something like sword, clique, FoW and thinking to myself something like, “If I lose this game after this ponder then I totally deserve it.”
We spoke after and he went a more board control route in regards to side boarding, keeping in all the stp and bolts, where I went pure stack interaction. In these mirrors I think (unfortunately at times) its all about who resolves TNN which is why I tend to go the counters route.

1-0-1

Round 3 Vs Esper Blade

Game 1 – pretty one sided as I remember. Spell snare did a ton of work this game keeping him off bob and stoneforge. My basic game plan was to keep him off TNN and bob. I land a TNN and have a counter for his judgment. Eot clique + TNN gets there.
Sideboard again pretty similar to the last match, except I side out 2 forces to leave in 2 bolts b/c of his bobs and -1 reb for the wear/tear
Game 2 – This was an extremely close game that was a blast to play. He lands a TNN early and beats my face with it down to 3 I think. I have just a batterskull in play with a clique and some counters in hand. His board is TNN, Bob, and stoneforge. I clique in his upkeep to see bob, bob, EE and batterskull. I take the batterskull he plays bob and EE for 3 and attacks me down to 3. I think I end up bolting his bob in response to a brainstorm as his only other card is the last bob. I draw TNN for my turn, equip clique and he pops EE in response. I have enough mana to play the TNN. TNN lives as his next turn I think he just passes as he has just a bob and stoneforge on his board. I untap equip and take the game from there as he cant race Bskull and TNN. Phew!
2-0-1

Round 4 Vs Shardless BUG
Game 1 – this is pretty uneventful as he does his shardless BUG thing and I get stomped pretty hard. I think I remember him cascading into multiple Goyfs and DRS after my hand gets shredded.
Sideboard – 4 FoW, -1 jitte, +1 verdict, +1 EE, +1 Ruination, +1 Sword of F n F, +1 clique
Game 2 – The beginning game I’m able to contain his board a bit with bolts and swords. Spell snare also does a lot of work keeping him off goyf. I eventually land a Jace and am able to protect jace for a number of turns pulling ahead on card advantage. No basics + Ruination leaves him with just a strix in play and an ancestral visions counting down. He scoops after I counter his ancestral.
Game 3 – goes much the same as game 2 with us trading 1 for 1 with my removal and his creatures. Needle on DRS slows his clock considerably, but he still eventually is able to cascade into enough creatures to find a good clock. I eventually brainstorm into Jace, verdict, and something else, allowing me to land Jace on a board that allows me to brainstorm a number of times. I jacestorm into stoneforge plus removal which allows me to keep blockers for jace and fateseal away creatures while swinging with batterskull. We almost go to turns but I find the sword allowing me to swing through his blockers for lethal.

I don’t usually post reports but I really liked this list as the past few lists ive played my tournaments have seemed to end up me leaving going 2-2 and feeling “meh” about the deck. I was continuously impressed with Spell Snare and I thought the 3/3 bolt/stp split was good as well. Dig also did lots of work and 2 feels like the right number. Was pretty psyched that ruination got there one game b/c screw you lands and screw you shardless bug.

[h2o]

Interesting that you got matched up against 4 control decks.

Why only 3 dual lands? Budget reasons?

[Ltj999]

Interesting that you got matched up against 4 control decks.

Why only 3 dual lands? Budget reasons?

Partly budget reasons, partly I like basic heavy lists as I feel like the deck can be mana hungry if it wants to really fire on all cylinders and I want to negate as many wastelands as possible.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

when I was looking at your list I sort of had the same questions. So not speaking for someone else but to ellaborate a little bit looking at your list you are running things like reality shift vs a 4th STP. Likewise you are running a Misdirection which forces you to pitch another blue card, 4 force of wills, and 3 dig thru times in a deck where you are trying to do graveyard recurssion with snapcaster/thopter/academy ruins. When you were looking at deck choices what was the idea behind the sword/thopter vs more TNN's? with you playing more of a traditional U/W I don't see you having mana problems vs Blood Moon that myself or other 3 color versions have, so more threats should help vs miracles in general.

There are 2-3 Mud builds in my meta. I play Reality Shift as a singleton as a concession to Chalice. Between it, CJ, and Verdict, I have much more of a chance at surviving long enough to win. Having most/all your removal blanked by a single card is frustrating at best.

I've been playing mostly UWx Blade lists since it was in standard. I have recently moved a bit away from TNN as my main plan of attack because he's been figured out. He dies to the meta. I've moved to the idea that several separate but linear mini-plans if you will, to allow myself to change strategies at will. I've been using thopters in the board for 6 months or so now and they have been very good (miracles basically cannot beat it), but also for the creature and burn matchups.

The Misdirection is quite a little favorite of mine. It does a lot more than its given credit for. Also, I'm not concerned with having to pitch cards. My deck runs 29-30 blue spells; it's not a problem. I play 3 Spell Pierce simply because I feel it's strong right now with all the blasts around, as I'm a non-splash variant, and I also think that BEB is a touch too "next-level" for my taste.

As far as conflicting plans go, I digress. It does seem strange to play gy themed ideas in the same main deck as dig. However, even if some of the numbers are incorrect, it feels better than my 3-4x TNN Lists did by a wide margin. I did drop a Foundry for an enlightened tutor, and that's been good so far also. Any actual thoughts on it, or just the few questions in passing?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[TnA_Will]

There are 2-3 Mud builds in my meta.
Any actual thoughts on it, or just the few questions in passing?

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

It's so funny to see how diverse this format is!! Here I am worried about Goblins and your tuning your version for a meta with Mud!! lol Now that I understand the meta your in your choices seem better suited for your deck. I agree spacing out threats is a good idea. I'm wondering if a card like Myth Realized would be a better threat in your version vs Clique? It would give you something to do at the end of their turns 5-X vs more of the attrition games like BUG/Miracles/etc. With the addition of enlightened tutor it gives you another searchable target. If Chalice is giving you trouble have you thought about trying more of a control route with EE with your Academy Ruins? I think your deck could benefit from a recurring "deathstick". (you may have it in the board already, I don't remember seeing your board choices). Especially one that can take care of a Chalice on 1!!

Other than that, the only other thing I would do would be decrease DTT and increase Ponder.... But again I think that's more of a personal thing for me than it is the "best call"

[neddsaurus]

uwr players - how do you feel against mono white DNT? how do you find yourself losing to them the most? pre & post board. i'm having a tough time with the uwr versions, would like to hear from the other side

[h2o]

uwr players - how do you feel against mono white DNT? how do you find yourself losing to them the most? pre & post board. i'm having a tough time with the uwr versions, would like to hear from the other side

I guess it's about 50/50? I play 2 MD Council's Judgment which can get rid of Mom and equipment. They usually have no answer to TNN except maybe postboard Judgment so you have to dig down for that. I run 1 Pyroclasm/1 Supreme Verdict in the board and those cards are excellent.

[h2o]

Maverick, on the other hand, now that's a difficult matchup.

[TnA_Will]

Hey All,

I need help tonight. it's my local Legacy event and I want to pack some more hate for Goblins (it's there and usually in the top 4 and I'm cold to it!) I'm running an esper version and my current sideboard is 2x Containment Priest, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 3x Fluster Storm, 3x Rest in peace, 2x supreme verdict, 1x Clique, and 2x Zealous Persecution.

The meta is usually Goblins, infect, elves, and heavy(at least 4 to 5 decks) storm/combo (TES,Belcher, OmniShow,R/G combo lands), and a few fair decks (U/W/R blade, Temur Delver, and maybe a Miracles or two). The Gob player seems to be able to navigate thru the field pretty easily and is usually in the top 4 in the last round..... So I know that I will probably see him at some point.

I thought the supreme verdicts would help but quite honestly between the waste lands and the really fast clock of goblins I cna't get to a verdict quick enough it seems to do anything.....

[Tourach]

Hey All,

I need help tonight. it's my local Legacy event and I want to pack some more hate for Goblins (it's there and usually in the top 4 and I'm cold to it!) I'm running an esper version and my current sideboard is 2x Containment Priest, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 3x Fluster Storm, 3x Rest in peace, 2x supreme verdict, 1x Clique, and 2x Zealous Persecution.

The meta is usually Goblins, infect, elves, and heavy(at least 4 to 5 decks) storm/combo (TES,Belcher, OmniShow,R/G combo lands), and a few fair decks (U/W/R blade, Temur Delver, and maybe a Miracles or two). The Gob player seems to be able to navigate thru the field pretty easily and is usually in the top 4 in the last round..... So I know that I will probably see him at some point.

I thought the supreme verdicts would help but quite honestly between the waste lands and the really fast clock of goblins I cna't get to a verdict quick enough it seems to do anything.....

In my experience you're right and Verdict is too slow. Zealous Persecution is really good though, as can be surprise blockers (Clique, C. Priest). You would be better off adding Disfigure or similar removal in place of Verdict (I'm talking about Goblins only). If you really want to beat him: Circle of Protection: red. The games I won against Goblins usually revolve around Swords->Snapcaster->Swords or Jitte/Sword of Fire and Ice or both of these two plans.

[h2o]

Hey All,

I need help tonight. it's my local Legacy event and I want to pack some more hate for Goblins (it's there and usually in the top 4 and I'm cold to it!) I'm running an esper version and my current sideboard is 2x Containment Priest, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 3x Fluster Storm, 3x Rest in peace, 2x supreme verdict, 1x Clique, and 2x Zealous Persecution.

The meta is usually Goblins, infect, elves, and heavy(at least 4 to 5 decks) storm/combo (TES,Belcher, OmniShow,R/G combo lands), and a few fair decks (U/W/R blade, Temur Delver, and maybe a Miracles or two). The Gob player seems to be able to navigate thru the field pretty easily and is usually in the top 4 in the last round..... So I know that I will probably see him at some point.

I thought the supreme verdicts would help but quite honestly between the waste lands and the really fast clock of goblins I cna't get to a verdict quick enough it seems to do anything.....
I'd replace 1 Flusterstorm with a one of Hydroblast. Between that, Persecution, Verdict, Clique, and Containment Priest (for Vial) you should be ok... If you are playing DRS then he can block Lackey.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I have found the best strategy to be 2-fold. First, yes, goblins won't be much affected by Supreme Verdict as board wipes aren't much use after you've lost, and what I learned was that board wipes aren't very useful, however I do think ZP is good here. What you want is Ghostly Prison. These kind of effects put an extreme amount of pressure on their mana base, ending their tempo and the momentum they have built.

Second, their beginnings are very important, and countering things like Lackey and Vial are vital. If you can keep them from developing momentum in the first place, then you have a decent chance of winning.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[RogueMTG]

Hey All,

I need help tonight. it's my local Legacy event and I want to pack some more hate for Goblins (it's there and usually in the top 4 and I'm cold to it!) I'm running an esper version and my current sideboard is 2x Containment Priest, 2x Ethersworn Canonist, 3x Fluster Storm, 3x Rest in peace, 2x supreme verdict, 1x Clique, and 2x Zealous Persecution.

The meta is usually Goblins, infect, elves, and heavy(at least 4 to 5 decks) storm/combo (TES,Belcher, OmniShow,R/G combo lands), and a few fair decks (U/W/R blade, Temur Delver, and maybe a Miracles or two). The Gob player seems to be able to navigate thru the field pretty easily and is usually in the top 4 in the last round..... So I know that I will probably see him at some point.

I thought the supreme verdicts would help but quite honestly between the waste lands and the really fast clock of goblins I cna't get to a verdict quick enough it seems to do anything.....

For specific hate, since you're Esper you have access to Engineered Plague which also splashes on Elves, but other than those two decks it is fairly narrow. Might get away with Toxic Deluge if you're looking for earlier sweepers... probably want to consider a basic Swamp for these though.

Alternatively you can board in more cheap spot removal to protect your life total until you can get an equipment online.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I prefer the continuing effects as goblins can recover quickly from a wipe. Also, Death and Taxes is a thing, and not something that you can use E. Plague to much success against.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[TnA_Will]

I prefer the continuing effects as goblins can recover quickly from a wipe. Also, Death and Taxes is a thing, and not something that you can use E. Plague to much success against.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

I agree! I like the continuous over spot. What if I changed my sideboard to this?
2x Containment Priest, 3x Fluster Storm, 3x Rest in peace, 3x Humility, 1x Clique, and 3x Zealous Persecution

Taking out the 2x canonists makes me a little weaker against spell combo but Humility seems like a good answer to Omni Show/Gobs/ RG Lands and makes them have to have enchantment removal. Also by bumping up Zealous to 3 that should help me in the early turns before Goblins gets all CRAZY!!

Just a thought, I have not tested Humility at ALL! I do know that the interaction with humility and my manland/Myth Realized package seems pretty good at overpowering opponents creatures.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

You have a huge overlap in the sideboard in the form of Priest and RIP. They are largely for the same matchups (although Priest has a significant role in the Goblin matchup, where rip is otherwise dead). If you feel like RIP is something that you are sure you want to play, 3 still seems high. I like to play 2x Priest, 1x RIP, 1x Grafdigger's Cage. It gives you much/all of the same coverage, but with a more diverse matchup coverage. Humility is the same as Verdict, except that it hurts your own strategy far worse. I feel like you need to try Ghostly Prison. It's not just good against Goblins, but also against mentor and YP, and instead of 3 Flusterstorm, 1 should be a Spell Pierce imho. If you want 3 board wipe effects, I can't help but echo the Toxic Deluge suggestion. It's one of the best board wipes available, and the only 3cmc one that can take out a Progenitus.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[TnA_Will]

I feel like you need to try Ghostly Prison. If you want 3 board wipe effects, I can't help but echo the Toxic Deluge suggestion. It's one of the best board wipes available, and the only 3cmc one that can take out a Progenitus.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

That is an awesome suggestion that I hadn't thought about yet.... Ghostly Prison seems to be a really good choice and doesn't hurt my own strategy like humility can. I had Deluge in the board for a while. The biggest problem I have with it is the cost.... My deck already looses life to not only fetch lands but to one of the win conditions in the form of Bitter Blossom! Loosing 5 life or more to Bitter-blossom and then trying to extend to deluge seemed like it was putting me very low (especially against match-ups with swarms like pyromancer, gobs, and elves) To "recover" and win they only needed to do 6 damage or so after I deluged and tried to take control with a blossom. So I switched to Zealous and Supreme Verdict (which is to slow from testing). The ghostly prison is a really great choice though and may fit to be the best choice! Thanks!!

[waz]

After winning a few local small tournaments, I recently went to a local legacy IQ and went 3-3. Since then, I have made some changes.

For reference, I ran:

Main
Lands:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Islands
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

Creatures:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor

Spells:

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
1 Jace
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
2 DTT
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
1 EE
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Back to Basics
1 Lingering Souls
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
2 Thoughtseize

Sideboard:

2 Meddling Mage
1 Disenchant
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Council's Judgment
1 RIP
1 Chill
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Containment Priest
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Zealous Persecution

Overall the deck felt strong, with BtB doing some real work. My losses were to ANT, Merfolk, and a UWx mirror, and wins against UB Tezzerator, Reanimator, and Burn.

Changes I've made today and haven't gotten to test:

Main:
-2 Thoughtseize
+1 SoFaI
+1 Zealous Persecution

Side:

-1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Perish [May become a second Flusterstorm]

I play in a meta infested with Lands and Wasteland/nonbasic fair decks.

[screallix]

Top 2'ed a 39 player legacy event with Jeskai Blade.
Won against Jund, Miracles, Deathblade, Miracles, ANT and
lost 2:0 in the finals against RUG Delver having Nimble Mongoose both games.

Any idea how to beat this card?
True-Name is good but very clunky against Tempo,
I play Coucil's Judgement maindeck and Supreme Verdict in the Side.

Thought about playing Engineered Explosives in the Sideboard
or EE Maindeck + Ancient Ruins.

SCG Premier IQ - Syracuse, NY was taken down by a list playing 4 Lightning Bolts and 4 Terminus.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16546&iddeck=123821

Any thoughts on Terminus and how to beat RUG/Nimble Mongoose?

[h2o]

Explosives or Pyroclasm (pre threshold)

I'm thinking about cutting my Pyroclasm for Explosives just because Explosives for 1 is so strong against BUG/RUG and sometimes you get to explosives for 2 and get a Goyf+Library or something

[h2o]

Usually your midgame against tempo is resolving a TNN and blocking with it until you equip something to it

unfortunately that's harder to do post board when they have k-grip

[screallix]

I think sudden demise is a much better card than pyroclasm since it does not affect your own creatures in most cases.
Nemesis Postboard is super hard to do. On the draw it's nearly impossible to stick one through daze and red elemental blast.

I'll give EE a try, seems legit against RUG.
Do you keep Force of Will in against RUG? I had a conversation with 2 RUG players and we haven't agreed on whether it's good or not. Preboard the only cards to counter are Stifle and Nimble Moogoose IMO.

[chris13]

I think sudden demise is a much better card than pyroclasm since it does not affect your own creatures in most cases.
Nemesis Postboard is super hard to do. On the draw it's nearly impossible to stick one through daze and red elemental blast.

I'll give EE a try, seems legit against RUG.
Do you keep Force of Will in against RUG? I had a conversation with 2 RUG players and we haven't agreed on whether it's good or not. Preboard the only cards to counter are Stifle and Nimble Moogoose IMO.

i play esper stoneblade and i have never lost against rug, game 2, i always side out my 3 force of will and 1 counterspell for 1 EE 1 darkblast 2 perish ..

[JPoJohnson]

For what it's worth, engineered plague also splashes for belcher and tes in his meta.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Yes, but Engineered Explosives does that better while being more versatile.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[Hrothgar]

I think sudden demise is a much better card than pyroclasm since it does not affect your own creatures in most cases.
Nemesis Postboard is super hard to do. On the draw it's nearly impossible to stick one through daze and red elemental blast.

I'll give EE a try, seems legit against RUG.
Do you keep Force of Will in against RUG? I had a conversation with 2 RUG players and we haven't agreed on whether it's good or not. Preboard the only cards to counter are Stifle and Nimble Moogoose IMO.

I don't think that deck, RUG, have one particular card that I want to counter, I side out the Will (I play only 3x Will) for hard counter and good removal.
I side in Explosives, Pyroclasm, Flusterstorm, REB.
Good cards are Blood Moon and Rest in Peace. This cards offer new target for the Krosan Grip and the opponent is forced to select one target between: equipment, explosives, rip, moon, sometimes Sensei (I play 3 Ponder and 1 Sensei)..

[h2o]

Anyone else seeing a large uptick in control decks in their meta (especially Grixis control)? If so how have you adapted?

[useL]

Anyone else seeing a large uptick in control decks in their meta (especially Grixis control)? If so how have you adapted?


Why would you need to adapt? What makes it stronger than any jacedeck with dig?

[h2o]

I was just curious. I don't have much experience playing against non-Miracles blue control decks.

[lost_ronin_soul]

Hey Hrothgar, that was me :cool:

My overall strategy with the deck is: do 1 for 1 trades early, Brainstorm, and set up a Dig through Time. Dig for the correct threats and then switch to being proactive.

Let me comment on my deck choices:
..............

2 Spell Pierce: A concession to shenanigans like Chalice, Trinisphere, Grim Monolith, and Liliana. It might be the worst card in the 60 but it can save your ass sometimes.


(edit shortened quote up)
I too play UWR stoneblade. I'm responding to your first post that is several days old/ I believe 2 spell pierce in the main is the right call. I'm glad you had some success with this. I've tried 4 (too many), 3(good), 2(good) and 1*(too few) spell pierce. I belive 2-3 is correct, and personally I like 2 over 3.


http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82342

Yes that is my list (very similar to yours).


I would like to talk about card choices more since you are on a similar build as me. I've considered spell snare, but I have been much more comfortable with the pierces for the past couple years of playing with this deck. Here is why I think spell snare is less important in uwr. Uwr packs more removal, and while lightning bolt isn't a reliable way to kill all the dudes , I killed at least one tarmogoyf at Syracuse with it. You have mentioned your concerns with maverick. My list handles that deck fairly well and I consider it favorable. they hardest thing to beat is a teeg that is protected with safekeeper or an active mother of ruins. As long as I keep that from assembling I am generally ok (p.s. I never board out force of will against them). I like my list versus death and taxes because I pack a sweet instant speed board wipe that is very castable against rishadan ports, and thalia while still being meaningful when I am behind (versus spot removal one for one trades when behind) I personally would like to see an extra pyroblast be added to your sideboard. I think your success against mud was because you lacked it making your hedge against those decks, stronger.



Top 2'ed a 39 player legacy event with Jeskai Blade.

Thought about playing Engineered Explosives in the Sideboard
or EE Maindeck + Ancient Ruins.

SCG Premier IQ - Syracuse, NY was taken down by a list playing 4 Lightning Bolts and 4 Terminus.
http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16546&iddeck=123821

Any thoughts on Terminus and how to beat RUG/Nimble Mongoose?
I have tried the academy ruins package, and I loved it. Right now I been liking karakas more, but academy ruins has always been a good runner up. I have won games because karakas vendilion clique (amazing blocking combo). I have also won games because of engineered explosivees recursion and batterskull recursion (great against esper ). Right now I am preferring terminus over swords but my deck did need a few modifications. I needed to add sensei's diving top #3, I need to drop 2 truename and add the third vendilion clique (avoids value loss from board wipes). I still have problems against shardless bug. I think I am slightly favored against most delver decks. I don't know how good my current list is against infect, because I haven't tested it. before I ran terminus, I ran Swords to plowshares and it was favorable. other things I like about terminus right now is it handles problematic situations like multiple beaters (tarmogoyf, delver, ect), monastery mentor (a up and coming problem card), Truename nemeis (where traditional answers to a resolved one is council's judgment), mother of ruins +plus any dude, and against stoneforge mystic (before and after activatable).

-----------------------------------------------------------
All this said, I run a rouge list and it's not for everyone. It is the deck list I am most comfortable playing because I been running this basic strategy for a few years now. I think deck expierence is probably more important then a card choice here or there to be successfully with any given list, includes UW, Jeskai, and Esper list (Yes, I cringed when I used the word "jeskai").

[h2o]

to be honest I have avoided playing Sensei's Top builds because I am not yet a fast player and the clock is my enemy. maybe I'll try it out when I get more experience.

To me the Top/Terminus builds are closer to Miracles than what I think of as Stoneblade, at least in terms of playstyle.

grats on the finish by the way.

[Hrothgar]

MAVERICK: p.s. I never board out force of will against them.

I board out the Will cause frequently Maverick have the Black splash and thay bring Thoughtseize or Duress.
Is an attrition match, where imho, cards like wear/tear, Esplosives, Plowshares, can be very good.
Why you don't board out Will? Can you elucidate me?




I like my list versus death and taxes because I pack a sweet instant speed board wipe that is very castable against rishadan ports, and thalia while still being meaningful when I am behind (versus spot removal one for one trades when behind)

How to improve this matchup?
I have some trouble...i don't play Terminus.
In G2 i bring in Pyroclasm and Explosives (maindeck 3 Plowshares and 1 Verdict).




I think your success against mud was because you lacked it making your hedge against those decks, stronger.

MUD are too strong.
I have good time if i see remove vs Metalworker, Explosives vs Chalice and my Blood Moons.
Normally i fetch for basics.

[useL]

How to improve this matchup?
I have some trouble...i don't play Terminus.
In G2 i bring in Pyroclasm and Explosives (maindeck 3 Plowshares and 1 Verdict).


Sulfur Elemental is a card that fits your deck quite well.

[TnA_Will]

Anyone else seeing a large uptick in control decks in their meta (especially Grixis control)? If so how have you adapted?

I wish!! I made my build because their were tons of control variants in the meta when TC was still around... Now in the central Ohio meta there appears to be much more combo decks and aggro builds. There are only a couple control builds running around. One of them is Grixis control but the other 2 or 3 are all Miracles Control.

I am going to be part of a group that is traveling to Wooster in a couple weeks for the Legacy open though. Does anyone know what the NorthEast Meta looks like??

[lost_ronin_soul]

I board out the Will cause frequently Maverick have the Black splash and thay bring Thoughtseize or Duress.
Is an attrition match, where imho, cards like wear/tear, Esplosives, Plowshares, can be very good.
Why you don't board out Will? Can you elucidate me?
.
Sensei's diving top help fight through discard. This makes your long term card quality better over their discard. But for the non SDT player's you have dig through time. I haven't tried it in my list because my terminus's are better in my deck then in my hand even if I run 7 brainstorm effects to put them back on top. Then again I been also lazy and haven't actually tested a copy or two, so there is my disclaimer. My play style against this deck is not taking the view of an attrition war. I view it as me wanting to resolve my important spells, while denying their back breaking spells. I take the same stance against rug delver (which is an attrition war). The idea is early game I may tap out for stoneforge mystic leaving it vulnerable to removal or a green sun zenith on X (Gaddock teeg, Quasli pridgemage, Thrun, the last troll are cards I want to avoid) as well as making a resolved Jace even more powerful since I can brainstorm into an active counter the turn I land it. Yes they run caven of souls but force of will is a nice insurance plan to avoid sideboard cards like Choke, Tsunami, Armageddon and Elspeth (cataclysm for death and taxes) while still nailing a creature here or there.


How to improve this matchup?
I have some trouble...i don't play Terminus.
In G2 i bring in Pyroclasm and Explosives (maindeck 3 Plowshares and 1 Verdict).
.

Sulfur elemental is nice against death and taxes as well as being great against miracles (bypass counterbalance a lot and kill monastery mentor tokens).
other cards that may help is a terminus or two in your sideboard (you may not run top but you do play brainstorm x4 and probably a jace or two). I feel terminus is a more reliable board wipe against death and taxes versus supreme verdict since they have thalia, wasteland, and rishidan port to keep you away from supreme verdict mana. Another option is statiscaster as it can help your elves matchup. A forth option is grim lavamancer as a two of as it also hits creature decks hard and can help for non-terminus style of uwr blade. Other then that your current bring-ins are solid. Just don't play engineered explosives too early. It's best to cast when you can activate the same turn to avoid it getting destroyed or flickerwisp'ed.



MUD are too strong.
I have good time if i see remove vs Metalworker, Explosives vs Chalice and my Blood Moons.
Normally i fetch for basics.
This matchup is unfavorable for me and I haven't tried to improve it because its pretty non existent where I play (at the moment). So I throw this matchup away. But if I get paired against it I guess I just try to rush a quick victory and hope their deck fails itself as it is not too uncommon the deck loses to itself.




I am going to be part of a group that is traveling to Wooster in a couple weeks for the Legacy open though. Does anyone know what the NorthEast Meta looks like??

I'll let you know my matchups from this weekend. I am stuck between running my Syracuse blade list, or a red/blue show and tell variant. I want to run blade so I can report on here, but I want to run my show n tell because it looks super fun. I will post the meta (mythic games in New York) on here. I expect a decent amount of BUG decks (shardless and delver) and a heavy amount of miracles (feels like 30% but that's probably wrong), a splash of white control (death and taxes, or maverick), some storm, and omnitell is very popular lately, we have some elves too.

[h2o]

With the list I T8'd with, I think the MUD matchup is 50/50. Maybe very slightly unfavorable, but it's very close. MUD is the deck I have the most experience testing against. I got matched against it 3 times in the Swiss of the 5k IQ, beat it twice, and ID'd against it once (but would have lost if it was played out). I do play the 2 MD Council's Judgment which is crucial in the matchup. Here are a few tips:

You cannot beat a resolved Ugin, period.

You can only beat a resolved Sundering Titan if you have something like True-Name + equipment already on the board.

Don't let them activate Forgemaster or they're going to get a Titan, Empirion, or Blightsteel, and by then you've probably lost.

Everything else is totally beatable, but Staff of Nin/Coercive Portal are scary because you are slow and they can rip ridiculous silver bullets off the top.

Always Force a Trinisphere (unless you have Judgment) because it makes your Forces useless.

Assuming I don't have Spell Pierce/Snare/Counterspell available, I will usually Force a Grim Monolith. Usually a Monolith play means that they're about to drop a Cavern of Souls and then start dropping scary stuff. Countering the Monolith slows them down, and if you don't, you might not get another chance to use your counterspell anyways.

Eventually they are going to resolve either a Chalice for 1 or a Trinisphere and you have to win through it. Plan accordingly and be liberal with your 1CC spells early on. Board out your Snapcasters because by the time they become useful, there will be a Chalice or Trinisphere on the board.

[screallix]

How would you describe the Team America Matchup with Jeskai Blade?
I've been playing this Matchup for a while now and it feels very hard after
Sideboard.
They almost always bring in:
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library
1 Null Rod
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Spell Pierce
and side out:
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
1 Disfigure

I bring in:
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle (mostly for liliana, I'm not 100% set on this card)
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Disenchant (Sylvan Library, Null Rod, Needle on Jace sometimes)
and side out most of the times:
4 Force of Will (if they are on Hymn and no Stifle)

[TnA_Will]

How would you describe the Team America Matchup with Jeskai Blade?
I've been playing this Matchup for a while now and it feels very hard after
Sideboard.

What version of Jeskai are you running? From what I've seen the Jeskai aggro Blade deck with Young Pyromancer has a very favorable matchup against Team America. If you are running the more control build, then the match up gets a lot more difficult. if you have access to Feast and Famine that would be a good call! Likewise, the list I'm looking at from StarCity Cleveland had 1x Baneslayer angel, 2x Pyroblast and 2x Bloodmoon in the board which is always a great call! Here is the link to the control decklist, Not sure how close/far you are away from this one. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=83846

[h2o]

What version of Jeskai are you running? From what I've seen the Jeskai aggro Blade deck with Young Pyromancer has a very favorable matchup against Team America. If you are running the more control build, then the match up gets a lot more difficult. if you have access to Feast and Famine that would be a good call! Likewise, the list I'm looking at from StarCity Cleveland had 1x Baneslayer angel, 2x Pyroblast and 2x Bloodmoon in the board which is always a great call! Here is the link to the control decklist, Not sure how close/far you are away from this one. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=83846

Yep, that's me.

I beat Danny Jessup (piloting BUG) in the Swiss, but his list was sort of suboptimal. I won G1 by removing all of his stuff and sticking TNN+Batterskull. In game 2 he surprised me because he played a TNN (I didn't board in Pyroblasts) and won solely because of that. Game 3 I think I got him with removal -> Dig -> Blood Moon. He had a Confidant out for beats but I found a removal spell before that did me in.

I think the matchup is favorable because Blood Moon and Baneslayer Angel are auto-wins. Post-board, sticking a Blood Moon is the most important thing, even more than sticking a TNN. Liliana is the scariest card in their deck, followed by Hymn, so plan accordingly.

[h2o]

I have no idea if this is optimal.

Out:
2 Council's Judgment
1 Counterspell
2 Snapcaster Mage (because of Deathrite)

In:
2 Blood Moon
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict

[Hrothgar]

I have no idea if this is optimal.

Out:
2 Council's Judgment
1 Counterspell
2 Snapcaster Mage (because of Deathrite)

In:
2 Blood Moon
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict

Blood Moon vs Team America is a win condition if resolved with our opponent tapped out.
Baneslayer is a good card vs Team America but required 5 lands and the double white mana.
Pyroclasm and Supreme verdict can save us.

I like to board in Pyroblast or Flusterstorm.

I usually remove all the Force of Will and the Judgment from the maindeck.

[h2o]

The problem with boarding in Pyroblast is that they usually board out 8 blue spells. That leaves only 12-14 targets total (Delver, Brainstorm, Ponder, and possibly 1-2 sideboard cards).

Boarding in 1-2 Flusterstorm is probably correct.

My issue with boarding out all Forces and Judgments is that your are now very vulnerable to their best card, Liliana.

[screallix]

Council's Judgement:
I'd never board out Council's Judgement against Team A.
Either you can remove Liliana, Sylvan Libary, Null Rod (insert hate permanent here)
or you can use it as additional creature removal.

Force of Will
I agree, Force of Will can counter Liliana, but in this attrition-matchup a good
BUG Player most likely always play Hymn to tourach or Thoughtseize BEFORE Liliana
because he knows the Planeswalker will single-handedly win him the game.
Getting Hymned with Force of Will in hand is painful. I dislike Flusterstorm in the Matchup
since it can't counter Liliana/Sylvan Library/Decay. It's most likely a hard counter for
Hymn which is quite cute, but I'd rather have Spell Pierce at almost everytime in that spot.

Snapcaster
I also never board out Snapcaster against Deathrite.dec. But I play very offensivly with Lightning Bolts
on Deathrite to prevent loosing to early Liliana shenanigans or losing my graveyard as a resource for
Dig Through Time (and Snapcaster). Btw every flash creature is a big play against an opponent with Liliana.
I can't tell how many times I Snapcaster-bolted an Liliana from 5 loyality to 0 with the following Attackstep. You could even
bring Vendilion Clique for flash-reasons.

Baneslayer
Baneslayer is not that good as you think. Sure they can't decay it but they still have
three Liliana in the 75. Which means we need to have five mana and Snapcaster/Stoneforge/True-Name + Baneslayer
to be sac-proof and at that point I'm sure I'd have already control over the game.

Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast
Very bad, like h2o said they most likely sideout a lot of blue cards and most of the time we don't need additional removal for Delver
of Secrets. I'd definitly bring it in if I saw True-Name Game 1 (some actually do play TNN in BUG, I wonder :D)

Bloodmoon
Obviously you need to clear the board before playing this sort of permanent.
At that point the opponent can play around Moon with 4 Decay and 2 Golgari Charm post board. But it's true,
Moon resolves - you win, if you control the board.

My BUG teammate said: "The matchup feels very positive for BUG. After sideboard I can't imagine loosing. The only cards
I need to handle are Bloodmoon and Jace. I have 6 outs to True-Name after it resolves. And even more ways to handle the Equipments"

Should I play a second Jace, The Mindsculptor? I have no Idea what to cut, though.

[TnA_Will]

After some changes and more testing last night against Miracles and a few other match-ups that could be seen in Wooster... I have altered my Esper Hybrid list to be the following. The changes of adding 2x enlightened tutor for utility (taking out the 4th bitterblossom and Creeping Tar Pit) swapping a polluted delta for a marsh flats because I also took out karakas for an additional plains seems like it's the right call, to really sure up the Miracles match up for me! Now I am favorable in the RUG/BUG match-ups, Infect, combo lands, dredge and re-animator match-ups.... I still think my worst match-ups are Goblins, Elves, Omni-show and Jeskai Stoneblade (aggro version with pyromancer). I think I'm about 50% now against Miracles (depending on their sideboard and kill con). I had one miracles player that HOUSED me with peacekeeper after board (I took out my STP's...). I added 1 Spine of Ish Sah to the sideboard for the "draw" games against miracles to try and break parity and try to eek out a win in the games that will end up being a draw or me loosing on turn 20! lol.... All in all testing this deck has seemed to go well against the infinite meta that is Legacy!! lol.

as a btw, having a 6/6 or 7/7 myth realized against a control deck like miracles with a white available is awesome!

As always opinions and advice is welcomed!

Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand [ONS]
1 Island [DDH]
1 Marsh Flats [ZEN]
4 Mutavault [MOR]
2 Plains [DDH]
3 Polluted Delta [ONS]
1 Scrubland [3ED]
3 Tundra [3ED]
3 Underground Sea [3ED]

Creatures (9)
3 Spellstutter Sprite [LRW]
3 Stoneforge Mystic [WWK]
3 True-Name Nemesis [C13]

Other Spells (30)
1 Batterskull [NPH]
3 Bitterblossom [MOR]
4 Brainstorm [5ED]
2 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
4 Force of Will [ALL]
2 Myth Realized [DTK]
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce [ZEN]
3 Standstill [ODY]
4 Swords to Plowshares [DDF]
1 Umezawa's Jitte [BOK]


Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest [C14]
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant [MD1]
1 Engineered Explosives [5DN]
1 Ethersworn Canonist [ALA]
2 Flusterstorm [CMD]
1 Humility [TMP]
2 Rest in Peace [RTR]
1 Spine of Ish Sah [C13]
1 Vendilion Clique [MOR]
3 Zealous Persecution [ARB]

[chris13]

After some changes and more testing last night against Miracles and a few other match-ups that could be seen in Wooster... I have altered my Esper Hybrid list to be the following. The changes of adding 2x enlightened tutor for utility (taking out the 4th bitterblossom and Creeping Tar Pit) swapping a polluted delta for a marsh flats because I also took out karakas for an additional plains seems like it's the right call, to really sure up the Miracles match up for me! Now I am favorable in the RUG/BUG match-ups, Infect, combo lands, dredge and re-animator match-ups.... I still think my worst match-ups are Goblins, Elves, Omni-show and Jeskai Stoneblade (aggro version with pyromancer). I think I'm about 50% now against Miracles (depending on their sideboard and kill con). I had one miracles player that HOUSED me with peacekeeper after board (I took out my STP's...). I added 1 Spine of Ish Sah to the sideboard for the "draw" games against miracles to try and break parity and try to eek out a win in the games that will end up being a draw or me loosing on turn 20! lol.... All in all testing this deck has seemed to go well against the infinite meta that is Legacy!! lol.

as a btw, having a 6/6 or 7/7 myth realized against a control deck like miracles with a white available is awesome!

As always opinions and advice is welcomed!

Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand [ONS]
1 Island [DDH]
1 Marsh Flats [ZEN]
4 Mutavault [MOR]
2 Plains [DDH]
3 Polluted Delta [ONS]
1 Scrubland [3ED]
3 Tundra [3ED]
3 Underground Sea [3ED]

Creatures (9)
3 Spellstutter Sprite [LRW]
3 Stoneforge Mystic [WWK]
3 True-Name Nemesis [C13]

Other Spells (30)
1 Batterskull [NPH]
3 Bitterblossom [MOR]
4 Brainstorm [5ED]
2 Enlightened Tutor [6ED]
4 Force of Will [ALL]
2 Myth Realized [DTK]
3 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce [ZEN]
3 Standstill [ODY]
4 Swords to Plowshares [DDF]
1 Umezawa's Jitte [BOK]


Sideboard (15)
2 Containment Priest [C14]
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant [MD1]
1 Engineered Explosives [5DN]
1 Ethersworn Canonist [ALA]
2 Flusterstorm [CMD]
1 Humility [TMP]
2 Rest in Peace [RTR]
1 Spine of Ish Sah [C13]
1 Vendilion Clique [MOR]
3 Zealous Persecution [ARB]

does mana base work for u? i mean you re a control deck with 22 lands and you re most likely to be mana screwed, i dont know if standstill makes up for this. i would remove true name nemesis for vendillion clique, try to find room for a swamp (and put more black cards in the sb) and remove 2 enlightened tutor for 1 standstill and 1 blossom, i also would change 2 myth realised for 2 jace,tms and maybe remove one spell pierce for stoneforge mystic. also 1 ponder for 1 spellstutter.maybe consider adding some discard spells but i dont know what to remove for them, maybe a cut ponders and put 1 force in the sb for 3 discard spells like thoughtseize-inq of kozilek (and your draw spells to be 4 brainstorm 4 standstill ) i think my ''list'' might work overall better. (you cant have a 50/50 matchup in a stoneblade shell against miracles, because countertop engine is better in the long game, and stoneblade vs miracles is always going to take a lot of time anyways if they put the engine down its game over 70% of the times)

[h2o]

I'm going to offer a #HotTake and say that if you are playing a blue control deck in Legacy you have to be playing Dig Through Time. The card is just too good.

[FortyThree]

Hi all,

I'm a long-time Esper Stoneblade player who eventually jumped over to Miracles, which is the deck I've been playing for the last year or so. While I love Miracles and think it's a fantastic deck, I'm considering switching back to blade again, at least for a bit, since I find I don't have the mental endurance to play well for more than 5 rounds or so with Miracles. I'm still a control player at heart, but I'm looking for something that can apply a _bit_ more pressure earlier.

The way I see it, there's very little reason to run a black splash as opposed to a red one these days. Discard feels a lot weaker than it used to, especially in a control shell, and the option to have 8 pieces of spot removal plus red blasts seems so much better.

With that in mind, here's the list I'm looking at putting together:

LANDS (22)

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas

CREATURES (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique

SPELLS (28)
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Dig Through Time
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

SIDEBOARD

3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Pyroclasm
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Disenchant


I'm still not too certain of the sideboard - I built it with the following matchups in mind:

Omnitell - super popular at the moment, plays Boseiju to blank counters, so hatebears are very important. Countermagic is still essential when they don't have Boseiju though. Rough boarding plan:

+ 1 Clique
+ 2 Meddling Mage
+ 3 Red Elemental Blast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Containment Priest
+ 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
+ 1 Disenchant

- 2 True-Name Nemesis
- Umezawa's Jitte
- Batterskull
- 3 Swords to Plowshares
- 4 Lightning Bolt

Death and Taxes - quite popular in Denmark, a problematic matchup for Miracles if the player is good, I feel like TNN + Equipment is so good against them, so this was an important factor to deciding to build stoneblade again. Rough boarding plan:

+ 1 Clique
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Containment Priest
+ 2 Pyroclasm
+ 1 Disenchant

- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Spell Pierce

Miracles - This is a 50/50 ish matchup the way I see it - UWR is a LOT better positioned than Esper in this case in my view. Miracles isn't _too_ popular in my area, but it's a super strong deck so it's always important to be prepared. Rough boarding plan:

+ 1 Clique
+ 2 Meddling Mage
+ 3 Red Elemental Blast
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Engineered Explosives

- 3 Swords to Plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Spell Pierce (can be left in on the play)

BUG Delver - BUG is the most popular of delver decks around here. It's always a hard deck to play against, but I think we can have quite a bit of game against it with UWR Blade. The 'heavier' version with maindeck Liliana and no stifles is by far the most popular one around here, so tools to fight her are very important. Rough boarding plan:

+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 2 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Engineered Explosives

- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Counterspell

ANT - Another rather popular deck in Denmark, This is a matchup that I generally like quite a bit with Miracles, but blade should have quite a bit of game against it still. I particularly like being able to keep some bolts to deal with Xantid Swarms or Dark Confidants without being left with totally dead cards if this is not the case. Rough boarding plan:

+ 3 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Vendilion Clique
+ 2 Meddling Mage
+ 2 Flusterstorm
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Sword of Fire and Ice

- 2 True-Name Nemesis
- 3 Swords to Plowshares
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
- 1 Stoneforge Mystic
- 2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
- 1 Council's Judgment

Mirror - And finally, the mirror is important to consider - I hadn't seen many blade decks around for a long time, but they're definitely in an upswing these days. Again, the red splash version is much better than the black one in this case, as Red Elemental Blast is the best card in the deck against blue-based decks with no wasteland. Rough boarding plan:

+ 3 Red Elemental Blast
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
+ 1 Disenchant
+ 1 Supreme Verdict
+ 1 Sword of Fire and Ice

- 4 Force of Will
- 2 Lightning Bolt
- 1 Swords to Plowshares


Of course there's many more decks, but these are some of the ones that I really feel I should be prepared against.

Thanks for reading, and let me know your thoughts!

43

[h2o]

You are going to have a difficult game against BUG Delver and some other decks (UWR Delver, Jund) without Blood Moon. Not sure how important that is to you.

[FortyThree]

You are going to have a difficult game against BUG Delver and some other decks (UWR Delver, Jund) without Blood Moon. Not sure how important that is to you.

Really, is it that bad? I'm not a huge fan of Blood Moon in general, I think it's very clunky. I haven't played stoneblade really since before BUG delver was a thing so I haven't tried the matchup a lot, but in theory it shouldn't be too bad? Regarding UWR delver, that I don't see how it should be hard - UWR delver is in my experience just a bad deck. I'm happy to hear arguments for this though.

Regarding Jund, I agree that it's not great, but Jund is all but dead around here. I haven't seen it in a LONG time, so I'm not worried about that.

I

[lost_ronin_soul]

So someone asked a week or so back what north east meta is like. At mythic games in Elmira, Ny there were some miracles , bug delver, grixis delver, show and tell, infect, elves running about.


I'm a long-time Esper Stoneblade player who eventually jumped over to Miracles ...... I'm still a control player at heart, but I'm looking for something that can apply a _bit_ more pressure earlier.

I built a hybrid list of miracles and uwr stoneforge. It is control with a little more pressure. It can
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=82342
(yes I like to promote my list so what :P)



LANDS (22)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Karaka
I think 2 arid mesa is where you want to be since it is the worst fetchland. I think would be happy turning one into a basic island . The other can be academy ruins, cut or a basic mountain to help keep removal high against wasteland decks



3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Pyroclasm
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Disenchant

I like the hate bears. I run enlightened tutor package to increase bullets I slip in the deck. My targets are ethersworn, rest in peace. ether sworn is stupid good against omnitell especially if you bring in red blast, as you can two for one omniscience show n tell. also I think red elemental blast maybe better off as pyro blast for dig through time synergy. Against omnitell it is probably good to side in supreme verdict, it gives you and answer to show n tell emrakul, and its blue to pitch to force of will. I like to leave force of will in against death and taxes it allows you to counter aether vial, and cataclysm as well as helping you protect stoneforge /equipment against hate cards. I would consider shaving the vendilion clique against death and taxes as the deck runs multiple karakas that make it a not so effective card. against miracles I would cut some lightning bolt(4 if they aren't bringing in monastery mentor, 2 if they are bringing it in/ suspect they bring it in) spell pierce is fantastic against miracles and I recommend it never get count as it helps ward of early counter balance, and mid game ward of jace. The other sideboard strategies based on your current deck build are fine. Good luck :)

[mediocre]

I have my theorycrafted list below. I've played a reasonable number of matches with it and it seems fine. Some description, mostly to provide context on my choices:

I like playing a deck with a bunch of cards that are good everywhere, which is what this deck is (for the most part). Most of these cards are always fine to draw and never truly bad. The exceptions are cards that are extremely powerful in some spots that can be found with Dig Through Time.

I like being black for the discard spells, since they're ways to interact with every deck. Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek are almost always good. The ability to go turn one Thoughtseize into turn two Meddling Mage in postboard games is often lights out against combo. I think the nonblack versions of stoneblade are virtual nonstarters for me due to issues with beating combo decks. Discard is often an ineffective draw late in a deck that has a tendency to play a long game, but you do have Liliana and Brainstorm to smooth them over.

Stoneblade is very mediocre, since most of the cards are good and none of the cards are amazing. You'll prevent your opponents from doing their gameplan and then grind them out with actual card advantage and superior card quality. Cards like True-Name Nemesis and Myth Realized seem counterintuitive to me here; I'm not really looking for attackers. The maindeck is hopefully set up to be generically reasonably in most matchups, though it's geared more towards creature decks. A consistently mediocre deck is great; you have game in every matchup and you're regularly able to outplay worse opponents. The ceiling here is certainly lower than Delver or Storm or Miracles, but the floor is much h

The sideboard is vaguely transitional. Combo matchups are ones where actually putting on a clock may matter, so the hatebears that actually attack for damage are great. The configuration I've chosen does make me a little weak to Pyroclasm or Massacre, but those are avoidable and I think it makes me way more likely to beat people who don't draw those cards. Sideboarding is fairly straightforward here.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Counterspell
1 Council’s Judgment
1 Lingering Souls
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Batterskull
4 Force of Will
2 Dig Through Time

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas

Sideboard
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Thoughtseize
3 Meddling Mage
3 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict

[HSCK]

You're forgetting that TNN is the best blocker you could ask for against a lot of decks and that it's extremely hard to deal with. IoK in a format defined by DTT and Top seems worse than just running 3 TS and freeing up a slot. Tasigur definitely belongs in Esper shells too.

[TnA_Will]

Tasigur definitely belongs in Esper shells too.

I totally agree as well. I'm not playing him in my list (simply because it's not pure stoneblade) but if you are running pure esper stone blade then a tasigur is AMAZING!!! I had him in for the first star city event he was legal with positive results. He seems to swing the BUG/RUG match up because he hits the board and you can shrink goyf to smaller than him and just go to town beating face! You do have to watch how many DTT you run with Tasigur also in the list but he's worth it.

Chris to answer your questions from earlier. 22 land works fine for me because i'm not trying to be Blade Control. My goal is to try and be tempo-aggro and win on turns 5-8. If I can land a jitte and a blossom then I usually can take 5 to 10 damage on turns 3-5 (goys/bolts/etc...) and take control with a flyer or TNN with Jitte equipped. The decks that seem to make it hard for me are Goblins/Merfolk/Elves and decks that get hoards with auto reload pieces like Zenith, Ringleader, etc... Death and taxes is fine for me and I really am trying to get a sound strategy against monoUOmniShow so I can try and handle that match up...

[waz]

Interesting. I tried running Tasigur when I had a stronger black presence in the deck and was consistently underwhelmed. I often found I would rather have a Lingering Souls, a True-Name, or even a Mentor. His lack of evasion was too problematic for me, and while he does block goyf well, there was very little value when he was removed.

That being said, if you're able to get several activations out of his ability, I could see him potentially start pulling away.

[chris13]

how many dig through time do you guys think best fits the esper stoneblade shell? i am currently playing 1 copy with 2 snapcaster mages and 4 linguering souls - 1 intuition.. (linguering- intuition works best for me over true-name vs maverick-goblins-jund-death and taxes- mirror, or even lands, as ''infinite :P'' blockers for marit lage) i noticed that i needed dig only during late game, and looking at the other control deck, miracle, in lists, they run 1 or 2..

[Zazorf]

As for what a graveyard can support - I am ran 2 Dig Through Time, 1 Snapcaster Mage, and 4 Deathrite Shaman for a while in a Deathblade build. I am going to try a second Snapcaster for the next two weeks.

[Hrothgar]

The way I see it, there's very little reason to run a black splash as opposed to a red one these days. Discard feels a lot weaker than it used to, especially in a control shell, and the option to have 8 pieces of spot removal plus red blasts seems so much better.

This is my same point of view.
This is a choise.
Anyway UWR and UWB are 2 different types of plain.
Similar but different.
I'm Miracle player, like you, and in past i have play Patriot (UWR Delver tempo): I see the UWR Blade like a solid evolution of Patriot, more strong in actual meta.




With that in mind, here's the list I'm looking at putting together:

LIST

+

SIDEBOARD

3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Pyroclasm
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Disenchant

I'm still not too certain of the sideboard - I


LIST:

The only cards I don't like in your list is Spell Pierce.
We don't have control about opponent's lands and Spell Pierce lost his power imho.
In my deck (excluding manabase we have 57/60 same cards in maindeck) i play Spell Snare: hard counter.

SIDE:

Why don't you play Blood Moon?
Blood Moon is THE card in our sideboard.
Moon can win alone in some matchups and is one of the best card you have access with the Red.
Idem for Rest in Peace.
This cards are bombs and can win some matchups alone.
In my list I play:

2 Blood Moon
3 Rest in Peace

...but some times, depending on meta, i play 3 Blood Moon (VS MUD or BUG or UGR) with very good results.

Another card I like is Wear Tear over Disenchant.
I play 3 Island, 2 Plains and 1 Mountain for a "solid like a rock" manabase.
The possibility of casting Tear for only W is good vs Choke and Similar.
Anyway you can cast Wear AND Tear for converted mana cost = 3 and escape from different things (Chalice, Counterbalance).



built it with the following matchups in mind:



Your side-in and out are good imho.