[DTB] Blade Control

[LDX]

Engineered Explosives, my bad. Was EE.

As I heard, Tempo Esper is a plain bad deck. What can you say about it?

[matunos]

"Optimal" is a strong word. If there was an optimal build, everyone would play it; but really it depends on your meta and, of course, the cards you have available.

Without the addtional Jaces, I think your best bet is to look at what Joe Bernal played at one of the SCG Opens earlier this year: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=998894

It's more or less Deadguy Ale with a blue splash. How it will perform in today's meta is different matter. Bobs can be Terminused (unlike Jace), and in my experience Miracles can be pretty resilient against Liliana if they have a Top going (I've survived through Liliana's ultimate a few times now thanks to Jace and/or Top).

Anyway, you don't need Mindbreak Trap since you play blue. If it's combo you're after, Flusterstorm is probably better for that.

[Megadeus]

Played UWr tonight with shocks and a trinket mage package. Beat Goblins and mono white stoneforge death and taxes. Lost to Junk Doran (Deathrite Shaman is really good) and Modern Pod combo :( drew no counterspells for pods... Anyway, the deck felt great. Jace Archotect of thought in place for my 3rd JTMS that is in the mail was great. Drew some cards and played a Mind Sculptor and it pitches to force! To be fair he doesnt seem awful vs goblins! Thalia was a tad annoying. Also I may run a path to exile, as I found myself wanting a T1 swords effect almost every game.

[LDX]

"Optimal" is a strong word. If there was an optimal build, everyone would play it; but really it depends on your meta and, of course, the cards you have available.

Without the addtional Jaces, I think your best bet is to look at what Joe Bernal played at one of the SCG Opens earlier this year: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=998894

It's more or less Deadguy Ale with a blue splash. How it will perform in today's meta is different matter. Bobs can be Terminused (unlike Jace), and in my experience Miracles can be pretty resilient against Liliana if they have a Top going (I've survived through Liliana's ultimate a few times now thanks to Jace and/or Top).

Anyway, you don't need Mindbreak Trap since you play blue. If it's combo you're after, Flusterstorm is probably better for that.

Thank you for the tips, I'll look at it. However how is Flusterstorm better than Mindbreak Trap when it comes to combo?

[Megadeus]

It is actually castable since it is one mana, and it is actually a very good way to win a counter war vs other control decks. Its more versatile

[Hapless Researcher]

It is actually castable since it is one mana, and it is actually a very good way to win a counter war vs other control decks. Its more versatile

I am a little inclined to disagree. Flusterstorm is a proactive spell, meant to push through your own threats. I can see it vs ANT maybe, but apart from that it'd be better to just load up on things like Spell Pierce.

[xfxf]

Actually Flusterstorm is better as a defensive counterspell because when you are trying to push a combo piece and have Flusterstorm to push it through with, your opponent can just cast a second counter targetting the original spell. When you are on the defense and cast Flusterstorm with X storm, your opponent can counter just 1 of them with FoW and needs to pay for the rest of the copies if he wants to push through.

[Ganbatte!]

What do you guys , think about baleful strix ?

It needs a few changes in the manabase to make it works. But I think it is a good card in this deck because it works well with umezawa's jitte and sword of feast and famine, it protects Jace and makes card adventage.
The fact that it cycles , make you hit your sideboard cards and brainstorm more often.
It also handles nimble mangooze wich can be a real problem somethimes, against tempo and aggro decks it is a very good at doing what you are trying to do.
At worst against combo decks , you can allways pitch them to force of will (since you rarely want to pitch brainstom,vendillion,...)
It is also sometimes good with academy ruins against tempo and aggro. Baleful strix handles tarmo,cliques,lackey,delver, so you can save your STP for ooze,dark confidant,deathrite shaman,goblin pildriver,...


This is the list , I am testing now.

4 stoneforge mystic
3 baleful strix
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique

4 StP
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
1 jitte
1 sword of feast and famine
1 batterskull
3 jace
2 inquisition
2 thoughseize
1 spell pierce
1 ponder
1 EE

23lands

4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
4 tundra
4 underground sea
1 riptide lab
1 academy ruins
1 island
1 plains
1 karakas
1 scalding tarn
1 marsh flats

Sb:
3 rest in peace ( dredge,RUG,reanimator,team america(tarmo,shaman,snap ) side out snapcaster
1 pithing needle ( uw miracles(top) goblin(waste-vial) merfolk(vial-mutavault) + a lot of random stuff
2 fulsterstorm (combo)
2 divine verdict ( RUG,gob,maverik,merfolk,...
3 engineered plague ( gob,elves, random Bitterblosom+dark confidant decks.,infect,...
1 vendillion clique (combo,control
1 spell pierce (combo , control
1 thoughtseize ( combo , control
1 detention sphere ( omnitell , control,...

As you can see , there are a lot of cards against control and combo. First of all because I have a lot to side out(stp,strix,sometimes EE,jitte) and also because I did cut some spell pierce from the maindeck (for strix).

I chose 3 rest in peace for the hate-grave slots even if it is not great with snapcaster mages. It is also usually great to play few differants kind of hate so it is more difficult to play around.(cabal therapy,nature'claim,...

But I think rest in peace is very good because it is also a great card against RUG unlike some other grav-hate.
It shuts down tarmo , mangooze , also somtimes sideboards cards: life from the loam or ancient grudge'flashback.
Most of the time you side in rest in peace you want to side out snapcaster mage anyway.

Flusterstorm is obv great against decks like show n tell or high tide , also reanimator,..but it isnt so great against control decks because it doesnt counter vendillion clique,jace,top and counterbalance. Thats why I only play 2.

[lordofthepit]

Has anyone played Venser, Shaper Savant in their 75? I've seen it in some sideboards, and while I can see how it can be generally useful, I'm not sure which matchups you'd want to bring him in. Any ideas?

[mini1337s]

Here's my current 75, which has been performing well:

ESPER STONEBLADE:
CREATURES: [11]
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage

INSTANTS [15]
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell

PLANESWALKERS [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

ARTIFACTS [4]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives

SORCERIES [4]
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek

LAND [23]
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins

SIDEBOARD:
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Lingering Souls
SB: 1 Vindicate
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb


I was running 2 Inquisition of Kozilek in the board, but I found that a majority of the time I was putting them in was to fight red aggro strategies, so I typically will side out 2 Thoughtseize, and add in 1 Spell Pierce and 1 IoK.
I also run a single Elspeth, Knight-Errant in the side, in place of the 3rd Lingering Souls we typically see. I'm not completely sold, but it does carry a fair amount of weight in the mirror. It's also nice very mid-range decks like Maverick, allowing me to fly over their defenses to snag Jitte counters.
The 1 of Oblivion Ring is really just Vindicate effect #2. Decent versus a lot of decks, never bummed to see one, performs well enough.


Any thoughts of suggestions? I'm going to a large triple power event in the coming weeks (Team games, and I'm on legacy), and I expect a pretty wideopen field. I've been trying to keep the deck flexible for a wide variety of decks, but still as consistent as possible. Any thoughts or feedback are much appreciated.

[Jblaze4lif]

Hey guys, quick questions about Esperstone Blade. I'm going to a tournament this Sunday and I'm still workin on the optimal build in order to win. Here is my current decklist, please take not of 2 things:

-I do not own more than 1 JtMS
-I do not own EE
-I do not own more than 1 Vendilion Clique

Is it still possible to run an Esper deck? Should I switch to something else, like BW? Would I/do I have chances?

Thank you!

1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Island
11 Swamp
2 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra

1 Vendilion Clique
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil

1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares

3 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
3 Cabal Therapy


SB: 1 Vindicate
SB: 3 Lingering Souls
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Pithing Needle


I would drop the liliana for Lingering souls. Add another Stoneforge and possibly 2 Jitte total

I would also drop cabal for inquisition of Kozilek. 4 discard total so 2 and 2 between thoughtseize

[somethingdotdotdot]

I'm not sure strix is quite good enough for this deck. I tested with it a bit back, but found that it was just inferior to supreme verdict in a lot of cases. Versus maverick, verdict is just a beating, while strix usually holds them back until they find a swords or they just use the swords stuck in their hand. Versus Rug, it makes forked bolt even better (2 for 1 vs 2x strix or 1x strix/clique). In the control matchups, the 1 power was just a bit too slow to be a real clock, while verdict helps trump angel tokens (if you can survive 1 hit).

Your testing may prove different though, so if you have any different results by all means post them. I really like strix and want it to work lol.

[Megadeus]

Here's my current SB for UWr. Pretty much a stock list Maindeck. I do have only 3 Snapcasters, and 1 Detention Sphere in its place maindeck.. Otherwise its pretty stock.

2 Spell Snare
3 Red Blast
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path To Exile
2 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Rest in Piece
1 Sulfur Elemental

Kind of all over the place I know... My current Meta has a lot of Red decks, and a good amount of stoneforge style decks. Is Spell Snare worth the slots?

[mini1337s]

Here's my current SB for UWr. Pretty much a stock list Maindeck. I do have only 3 Snapcasters, and 1 Detention Sphere in its place maindeck.. Otherwise its pretty stock.

2 Spell Snare
3 Red Blast
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path To Exile
2 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Rest in Piece
1 Sulfur Elemental

Kind of all over the place I know... My current Meta has a lot of Red decks, and a good amount of stoneforge style decks. Is Spell Snare worth the slots?

I think Magus of the Moon hurt you more than other decks. Aside from Lands.dec, what do you want to bring this in against? Ditto with Sulfur Elemental, it just hurts your SFM and kills off your Lingering Souls (or Timely Reinforcements for that matter) if you run any (though I could see an argument for bring it in against opposing Lingering Souls).
I'm not convinced that Rest in Peace is right if you run Snapcasters. I would rather see Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus if you are UWr. As I splash black, I take advantage of Nihil Spellbomb, which is an absolute beating against Dredge in conjunction with Academy Ruins.
Spell Snare is narrow; ran it as a 2 of in the side for a long time, didn't bring it in all that often. It's not terrible though, just not worth it in my meta. If you face hordes of Goyfs and Bobs, it's worth having.
REB I'd rather have Spell Pierce of BEB. I find Blade Control has problems with red based aggro strategies, and BEB a Sulfuric Vortex or a Price of Progress has saved my life many times. That being said, it doesn't remove Delver. Your call really, maybe a 2/1 split?
Timely Reinforcements seems pretty decent. I like that it gives another body to hold a Jitte, and slows down the aggro gameplan.
I'm pretty happy with Supreme Verdict on a whole as well. I think you want 2 forms of mass removal though, so maybe up it to a 2 of.

What decklist are you running now?

[matunos]

Here's my current SB for UWr. Pretty much a stock list Maindeck. I do have only 3 Snapcasters, and 1 Detention Sphere in its place maindeck.. Otherwise its pretty stock.

2 Spell Snare
3 Red Blast
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Path To Exile
2 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Rest in Piece
1 Sulfur Elemental

Kind of all over the place I know... My current Meta has a lot of Red decks, and a good amount of stoneforge style decks. Is Spell Snare worth the slots?

You're definitely going to want to shave that down to a 15 card sideboard.

[Megadeus]

You're definitely going to want to shave that down to a 15 card sideboard.

Fair. I Realized I took out the Supreme Verdict for standard, then when I put it back in I didnt cut a card lol.

To whoever posted abou tneeding more mass removal, I already run 2x Verdict Main and 2x EE

Also I don't play black so no Lingering SOuls for me to kill off with my own sulfur guy. Wouldn't be a good thing to make my stoneforge into a 2/1? My Meta has a good amount of Thalia's running around. Otherwise here is my current list:

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
2 Supreme Verdict

3 Jace TMS

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage

1 Detention Sphere

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Mishra's Factory

SB:
3 Red Blast (Show and Tell based decks)
2 Spell Snare (Seems like a decent catch all. Haven't tested)
2 Disenchant (There are enough targets being played to warrant this)
1 Path to Exile (Extra Spot removal for pesky Lackeys, Moms, Deathrites, other scary 1 drops)
2 Timely Reinforcements (Red decks, Goblins, UR Delver)
2 Magus of the Moon (12 Post, Greedy Junk based mana bases, Sol Land based decks, RUG)
2 RIP (RUG, Dredge, Reanimator)
1 Sulfur Elemental (Thalia, Lingering Souls, MoMs)

I think I will probably go Tormods Crypt over Relic in the MB. Sometimes you need that hate the turn you fetch it off of mage. Detention Sphere seems a bit clunky, not sure what to replace it with though. When I get V Cliques, I'll probably just drop the trinket mages for 2x Clique.

[mini1337s]

Fair. I Realized I took out the Supreme Verdict for standard, then when I put it back in I didnt cut a card lol.

To whoever posted abou tneeding more mass removal, I already run 2x Verdict Main and 2x EE

Also I don't play black so no Lingering SOuls for me to kill off with my own sulfur guy. Wouldn't be a good thing to make my stoneforge into a 2/1? My Meta has a good amount of Thalia's running around. Otherwise here is my current list:

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
2 Supreme Verdict

3 Jace TMS

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage

1 Detention Sphere

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Mishra's Factory

SB:
3 Red Blast (Show and Tell based decks)
2 Spell Snare (Seems like a decent catch all. Haven't tested)
2 Disenchant (There are enough targets being played to warrant this)
1 Path to Exile (Extra Spot removal for pesky Lackeys, Moms, Deathrites, other scary 1 drops)
2 Timely Reinforcements (Red decks, Goblins, UR Delver)
2 Magus of the Moon (12 Post, Greedy Junk based mana bases, Sol Land based decks, RUG)
2 RIP (RUG, Dredge, Reanimator)
1 Sulfur Elemental (Thalia, Lingering Souls, MoMs)

I think I will probably go Tormods Crypt over Relic in the MB. Sometimes you need that hate the turn you fetch it off of mage. Detention Sphere seems a bit clunky, not sure what to replace it with though. When I get V Cliques, I'll probably just drop the trinket mages for 2x Clique.
I still think you want some number of Elspeth in the main. Though, it's definitely a "nombo" with Sulfur Elemental :D
Is Rest in Peace really necessary though? Maybe I'm just in love with Academy Ruins, but recurring either Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb (which gives you the draw too) versus Dredge, along with "infinite" Engineered Explosives, is amazing. I'm not convinced it's right, but to each his own.
The Magus of the Moon is more justifiable with so many basics. Why not just run Blood Moon though? It doesn't die to creature removal, though do you keep it Magus so you can occasionally kill it? If you are worried about RUG and Junk, I think Magus is going to be too slow to stop their game plan.

The Sulfur Elemental seems interesting, and certainly is strong versus Maverick/D+T/LS. If it does work out well, I think you'll want to up it to atleast a 2 of to ensure you hit it more often.

The deck is getting there! Slowly but surely :D Now to attack the manabase :P

[Megadeus]

I still think you want some number of Elspeth in the main. Though, it's definitely a "nombo" with Sulfur Elemental :D
Is Rest in Peace really necessary though? Maybe I'm just in love with Academy Ruins, but recurring either Tormod's Crypt or Nihil Spellbomb (which gives you the draw too) versus Dredge, along with "infinite" Engineered Explosives, is amazing. I'm not convinced it's right, but to each his own.
The Magus of the Moon is more justifiable with so many basics. Why not just run Blood Moon though? It doesn't die to creature removal, though do you keep it Magus so you can occasionally kill it? If you are worried about RUG and Junk, I think Magus is going to be too slow to stop their game plan.

The Sulfur Elemental seems interesting, and certainly is strong versus Maverick/D+T/LS. If it does work out well, I think you'll want to up it to atleast a 2 of to ensure you hit it more often.

The deck is getting there! Slowly but surely :D Now to attack the manabase :P
Haha it's getting there! I havent really needed more than 2 EE any game yet so I don't see the need for Academy Ruins sadly. And I like RIP because of it's flexibility, and when I am bringing it in, I am making sure that it is hurting my opponent much more than it is hurting me. The one reason I have debated Academy Ruins is because sometimes my batterskull/Jitte dies and Im like :/ Maybe Ill try it out in place of what? Maybe a Hallowed Fountain?

[learntolove6]

Fair. I Realized I took out the Supreme Verdict for standard, then when I put it back in I didnt cut a card lol.

To whoever posted abou tneeding more mass removal, I already run 2x Verdict Main and 2x EE

Also I don't play black so no Lingering SOuls for me to kill off with my own sulfur guy. Wouldn't be a good thing to make my stoneforge into a 2/1? My Meta has a good amount of Thalia's running around. Otherwise here is my current list:

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
2 Supreme Verdict

3 Jace TMS

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Trinket Mage

1 Detention Sphere

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
5 Island
4 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
3 Mishra's Factory

SB:
3 Red Blast (Show and Tell based decks)
2 Spell Snare (Seems like a decent catch all. Haven't tested)
2 Disenchant (There are enough targets being played to warrant this)
1 Path to Exile (Extra Spot removal for pesky Lackeys, Moms, Deathrites, other scary 1 drops)
2 Timely Reinforcements (Red decks, Goblins, UR Delver)
2 Magus of the Moon (12 Post, Greedy Junk based mana bases, Sol Land based decks, RUG)
2 RIP (RUG, Dredge, Reanimator)
1 Sulfur Elemental (Thalia, Lingering Souls, MoMs)

I think I will probably go Tormods Crypt over Relic in the MB. Sometimes you need that hate the turn you fetch it off of mage. Detention Sphere seems a bit clunky, not sure what to replace it with though. When I get V Cliques, I'll probably just drop the trinket mages for 2x Clique.

I like your list a lot. I was playing something very similar a few months ago and it ran very well. Personally, I would cut the Magus in the sideboard, as well as the Snares. Your maindeck against RUG is very well off and Junk is not a bad match-up. I would add 2 Oblivion Rings, 1 Humility, and 1 more Sulfur Elemental (he's insane). How have the Timely's been? I never found them necessary because you play Betterskull, which just beats all those decks you listed.

[Megadeus]

I like your list a lot. I was playing something very similar a few months ago and it ran very well. Personally, I would cut the Magus in the sideboard, as well as the Snares. Your maindeck against RUG is very well off and Junk is not a bad match-up. I would add 2 Oblivion Rings, 1 Humility, and 1 more Sulfur Elemental (he's insane). How have the Timely's been? I never found them necessary because you play Betterskull, which just beats all those decks you listed.

Timelys so far have been alright. It does help to get the bodies out there to pick up a Jitte. To be honest I havent used it much. I tested it against UR delver and I probably don't NEED it. My Meta has a good amount of goblins in it, so I think it would be solid to chump or something. What is a good way to beat Goblins? (Other than Jitte) I guess Humility is pretty solid vs them?

Edit: How about like 2-3 Geist of Saint Traft in the board for the Miracle MU? to be honest the mirror and miracles I havent tested too much and I am severely worried about this MU.

[preddi]

Hi guys,

I'm currently playing a Esper Miracleblade hybrid list with great success. I'm still not convinced if this is an optimal maindeck and I'm still testing some things (like the 1 Entreat):

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Jace, the mind sculptor

3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas


The main problem right now is that a large part of my meta GBr NicFit with Punishing Fire (as well as Pernicious Deeds and Bonfire) and in 4 games against this deck I managed to win only 1 match (the other 3 resulted in a 0-0 draw because I couldnt beat the lategame reccuring PFire Engine and he wasn't able to damage me fast enough with me recasting Batterskull and other stuff, in the end both libraries were nearly empty). My gameplan was basically resolving an Entreat for lethal or destroying all groves with dust bowl, but in practice this worked only once. I think offering even more sideboard slots is not correct, because we didn't finish even one game in 3 of 4 matches.

What can I do to improve this preboard matchup?

-preddi

[klaus]

What can I do to improve this preboard matchup?
-preddi

MD CB and I'd certainly cut black (not worth it for 2 MD slots).
i.e.:
-2 Ponder
-2 Thoughtseize
-1 EE
+3 CB
+1 Top
+1 Detention Sphere (better curve and definitey better in the straight UW version)

[preddi]

Cutting Black seems interesting, but I doubt CB is the answer here. Between Deed, GSZ for enchantment removal there are Abrupt Decay too. This will be a pain in the ... :(

[thra1l]

Haha it's getting there! I havent really needed more than 2 EE any game yet so I don't see the need for Academy Ruins sadly. And I like RIP because of it's flexibility, and when I am bringing it in, I am making sure that it is hurting my opponent much more than it is hurting me. The one reason I have debated Academy Ruins is because sometimes my batterskull/Jitte dies and Im like :/ Maybe Ill try it out in place of what? Maybe a Hallowed Fountain?

Academy Ruins is really good. A lot of times your Jitte/Batterskull will get blown up, and it's nice to get some of your biggest win cons back out of the graveyard (and at instant speed!). Also, recurring EE's are good in really grindy games, and not to mention the MD Relic you have. It just has a lot of utility overall, and I would recommend it, for sure. :)

Edit: @thread
I also tested Bobs last week, and they were really good. Most of the time that I landed one I was so far ahead with card advantage and answers, that my opponent couldn't keep up.

[Jessenator]

Hi guys,

I'm currently playing a Esper Miracleblade hybrid list with great success. I'm still not convinced if this is an optimal maindeck and I'm still testing some things (like the 1 Entreat):

3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Jace, the mind sculptor

3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas


The main problem right now is that a large part of my meta GBr NicFit with Punishing Fire (as well as Pernicious Deeds and Bonfire) and in 4 games against this deck I managed to win only 1 match (the other 3 resulted in a 0-0 draw because I couldnt beat the lategame reccuring PFire Engine and he wasn't able to damage me fast enough with me recasting Batterskull and other stuff, in the end both libraries were nearly empty). My gameplan was basically resolving an Entreat for lethal or destroying all groves with dust bowl, but in practice this worked only once. I think offering even more sideboard slots is not correct, because we didn't finish even one game in 3 of 4 matches.

What can I do to improve this preboard matchup?

-preddi

Not playing Counterbalance would be probably the right call in that meta. Stoneblade decks are quite bad against Cabal Therapy decks due to the ability to grind you out.

I don't really understand why you are splashing 3 Seas for only 2 Thoughtseize in the mainboard? Is that really worth the unstable manabase? I'm not sure this is the way to take the deck here.

[Megadeus]

Academy Ruins is really good. A lot of times your Jitte/Batterskull will get blown up, and it's nice to get some of your biggest win cons back out of the graveyard (and at instant speed!). Also, recurring EE's are good in really grindy games, and not to mention the MD Relic you have. It just has a lot of utility overall, and I would recommend it, for sure. :)

Sadly Academy Ruins and Relic is a nonbo due to the relic exiling itself. Its why I am more than likely going to just go ahead and play a Tormod's Crypt. I think tomorrow night I'll have to test out the Academy ruins in place of a Mishra's Factory I think. I also think that Dust bowl has a possible spot in here somewhere, though again I don't know what, and I would rather not stretch my mana base too thin.

[learntolove6]

Timelys so far have been alright. It does help to get the bodies out there to pick up a Jitte. To be honest I havent used it much. I tested it against UR delver and I probably don't NEED it. My Meta has a good amount of goblins in it, so I think it would be solid to chump or something. What is a good way to beat Goblins? (Other than Jitte) I guess Humility is pretty solid vs them?

Edit: How about like 2-3 Geist of Saint Traft in the board for the Miracle MU? to be honest the mirror and miracles I havent tested too much and I am severely worried about this MU.

i've done a moderate amount of testing against that MU, and humility is insane. if they're not playing K. Grip, they're not beating it, especially if you get a jit going too. Geists are a good call too, but it's not the worst MU ever. if you were playing Black id say Lingering Souls but Geist is alright. They can still Terminus it. Red Blasts are pretty good.

[Megadeus]

You think like 2x Humility is good then? Because it isn't awful vs SnT I guess? I could drop the Magus of the Moons

[matunos]

Humility is not great against Miracles. Miracles often plays Humility themselves, sometime even maindeck. Sure, it turns the angels into 1/1 chumps, but angels is by no means the only, or even primary, win con for Miracles against a control deck, and there are plenty of ways to compensate:
- Terminus/Verdict- I'll probably leave some or all in if you're playing tokens.
- Top- If you're holding onto a Humility waiting for me to Entreat, I can get at least one big swing in by flipping the Top at EOT.
- Jace- Sticking a Jace is priority #1-2 (along with sticking a Counterbalance and/or Top). This is my most likely path to victory, and if I have to sweep the board to protect him, believe me I will.
- Equipment- For Miracle Blade decks, a Batterskull can work wonders under Humility, especially once I have enough mana to bounce it and re-cast it. In my
experience, a recurring Batterskull wins against a 1/1 with a Jitte, unless you can overrun the board with expendable 1/1s (in which case you're more susceptible to sweepers).
- O-Ring- No explanation necessary.
- RiP/Helm- if I can delay you long enough to get this combo, you're just dead.

Timely isn't likely to do a lot against Miracles because miracles doesn't tend to pressure your life early. It certainly can happen, but typically the Stomeblade player is going to be the more aggressive one in this matchup because Miracles can out control it given enough time. I wouldn't board in Timely.

Now, are you going to fetch a Jitte off an early SFM against Miracles? Most likely only if you have a Lingering Souls in your hand. Otherwise, you're likely to end up with a Jitte and no creatures to equip it on, given the amount of removal Miracles has (and again, is likely to keep some of that in post-board). And they're not likely to give you many juicy targets for the counters (a Clique maybe, but they've already done the work once they enter the battlefield).

In summary, I think relying on Humility to stop Miracles because it's good against 1-2 cards in their deck is faulty logic. I would leave the Humility in the sideboard against Miracles and instead bring in an extra Clique, Jace Beleran if you're running him, Spell Snare, and/or extra discard.

[Purgatory]

I played a few hands versus UW Miracles the other day and the match felt terribly lopsided, at least pre-board. I guess most of the losses can be accounted for by me being terrible and not playing properly against Miracles, but to me there were so many cards I hated to see from his side. I played UWr (been going back and forth between the red and the black splash) and felt that both pieces of the countertop synergy were difficult to handle, Counterbalance was obviously more troublesome, but he had enough mana and the games were grindy enough to make Top's card quality advantage really relevant.

I was unable to out-aggro him due to the large amounts of removal he played, and I felt I was on the backfoot on the long game as well, more or less due entirely to his Counterbalance(s).

When playing Esper Blade, what is the overall game-plan against Miracles?

[Megadeus]

Humility is not great against Miracles. Miracles often plays Humility themselves, sometime even maindeck. Sure, it turns the angels into 1/1 chumps, but angels is by no means the only, or even primary, win con for Miracles against a control deck, and there are plenty of ways to compensate:
- Terminus/Verdict- I'll probably leave some or all in if you're playing tokens.
- Top- If you're holding onto a Humility waiting for me to Entreat, I can get at least one big swing in by flipping the Top at EOT.
- Jace- Sticking a Jace is priority #1-2 (along with sticking a Counterbalance and/or Top). This is my most likely path to victory, and if I have to sweep the board to protect him, believe me I will.
- Equipment- For Miracle Blade decks, a Batterskull can work wonders under Humility, especially once I have enough mana to bounce it and re-cast it. In my
experience, a recurring Batterskull wins against a 1/1 with a Jitte, unless you can overrun the board with expendable 1/1s (in which case you're more susceptible to sweepers).
- O-Ring- No explanation necessary.
- RiP/Helm- if I can delay you long enough to get this combo, you're just dead.

Timely isn't likely to do a lot against Miracles because miracles doesn't tend to pressure your life early. It certainly can happen, but typically the Stomeblade player is going to be the more aggressive one in this matchup because Miracles can out control it given enough time. I wouldn't board in Timely.

Now, are you going to fetch a Jitte off an early SFM against Miracles? Most likely only if you have a Lingering Souls in your hand. Otherwise, you're likely to end up with a Jitte and no creatures to equip it on, given the amount of removal Miracles has (and again, is likely to keep some of that in post-board). And they're not likely to give you many juicy targets for the counters (a Clique maybe, but they've already done the work once they enter the battlefield).

In summary, I think relying on Humility to stop Miracles because it's good against 1-2 cards in their deck is faulty logic. I would leave the Humility in the sideboard against Miracles and instead bring in an extra Clique, Jace Beleran if you're running him, Spell Snare, and/or extra discard.

Im pretty sure we were talking about the Goblins MU. Of course Timely is awful vs Miracles lol

[ThediscoPower]

I played a few hands versus UW Miracles the other day and the match felt terribly lopsided, at least pre-board. I guess most of the losses can be accounted for by me being terrible and not playing properly against Miracles, but to me there were so many cards I hated to see from his side. I played UWr (been going back and forth between the red and the black splash) and felt that both pieces of the countertop synergy were difficult to handle, Counterbalance was obviously more troublesome, but he had enough mana and the games were grindy enough to make Top's card quality advantage really relevant.

I was unable to out-aggro him due to the large amounts of removal he played, and I felt I was on the backfoot on the long game as well, more or less due entirely to his Counterbalance(s).

When playing Esper Blade, what is the overall game-plan against Miracles?


I don't know about the others (i play u/w and not esper), but I use geist of saint traft as a creature they can only deal with mass removal (read, terminus and/or supreme verdict), sword of war and peace as a way to go through entreats angels, put decent clock and blank their removal, and elspeth as a token machine. Aside from that, you must not to let a counterbalance hit play , and explosive is very powerful in the matchup (you can even play it for higher casting cost to dodge counterbalance). But yeah, overall, that mactchup isn't easy, but definately winable.

[Megadeus]

So Geist is pretty solid vs Miracles? I may try him out. Probably will wait until the damn price drops though... 40 bucks is too steep for a SB standard card for me lol.

[preddi]

Not playing Counterbalance would be probably the right call in that meta. Stoneblade decks are quite bad against Cabal Therapy decks due to the ability to grind you out.

I don't really understand why you are splashing 3 Seas for only 2 Thoughtseize in the mainboard? Is that really worth the unstable manabase? I'm not sure this is the way to take the deck here.

Yeah the manabase is actually a relic of my old esper list with 4 Discard spells and EE, so I didn't change it yet. Thanks for the advice. Well in germany NicFit is a part of the meta for a long time now. At my local tournament over 20% of the players played it for months. As far as I can tell, the matchup was really good for blade decks (Especially with Elspeth,SoFF and maybe even Geist). But in the current meta I think these cards are not good enough, maybe Geist against miracles and rug, but certainly questionable.

I think I will rework the manabase and stick with my gameplan of resolving entreat for lethal or dust bowl the groves away.

[matunos]

I don't know about the others (i play u/w and not esper), but I use geist of saint traft as a creature they can only deal with mass removal (read, terminus and/or supreme verdict), sword of war and peace as a way to go through entreats angels, put decent clock and blank their removal, and elspeth as a token machine. Aside from that, you must not to let a counterbalance hit play , and explosive is very powerful in the matchup (you can even play it for higher casting cost to dodge counterbalance). But yeah, overall, that mactchup isn't easy, but definately winable.

Until your Geist is actually sworded up, a Clique or Snapcaster can also take him out.

[matunos]

Im pretty sure we were talking about the Goblins MU. Of course Timely is awful vs Miracles lol

I think Timely is awful against Goblins too. It's a sorcery for one, so you're not surprising anyone with it. And it makes a few chumpers that Goblins can quickly dispatch with either a Sharpshooter or just charging over the top with. You better have a Jitte out to make that sort of play, and generally, Batterskull is going to be better in that situation (esp. if you have enough mana to bounce it).

I'd rather have the Ghostly Prison against Goblins- very hard for them to get rid of, and effectively keeps them from alpha striking, no matter how many goblins they can get on the field. I think their win con then basically becomes Siege-Gang Commander+Sharpshooter. Of course, Moat stops their attacks completely, if you have one, can muster the additional mana, and can get some fliers going with a Jitte.

[Megadeus]

It probably is pretty awful against them. I do like the Ghostly Prison Idea. I would like it more if I had some mana denial. Sadly I don't have a Moat. I may have access to one for bigger tourneys though. I have felt pretty good against Goblins though. Ringleader is rough if they hit on it, but post board going to 5 STP effects with a Path seems good against their T1 Lackey. Also running 3 Supreme verdict and 2 EE post board as well, along with of course Jitte wrecking them pretty badly. Maybe a second Jitte in the board for if the first one gets blown up?

[matunos]

The reason I like Ghostly Prison against Goblins is that they don't tend to have to a lot of mana, and they like to use what they do have to port down your lands, so this forces them to choose. Even if they do spend all their mana to attack, that is likely to only allow two or three guys in, which is easy to absorb, especially of you've got some removal in hand or blockers ready.

Verdict is good, but they may be able to keep you off the necessary mana with Wastelands and Port.

(Note: my experience with Goblins is from playing Miracle Blade, not Stoneblade per se.)

[ThediscoPower]

Until your Geist is actually sworded up, a Clique or Snapcaster can also take him out.

well, where I live they don't play snapcaster in miracles, but clique can kill geist indeed. However, my point was that I was satisfied with the role of mass sweeper waster + good clock he has in the matchup.

[Megadeus]

If he hits twice thats 12 damage. After that he is lethal (counting 2 fetches). Thats a good clock for a 3 drop.

[learntolove6]

If he hits twice thats 12 damage. After that he is lethal (counting 2 fetches). Thats a good clock for a 3 drop.

I think he's good if you don't overextend. Pretty much with that MU, you always want to have a threat and force them to Terminus creatures to little value. That's why Lingering Souls is very good against them. However, I really liked the suggestion of Baby Jace out of the board. That MU is mostly about Jace, so if you can generate card advantage and prevent them from playing their Jace, that's a powerful move.

[mini1337s]

A slight change to my sideboard: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21441-DTB-Blade-Control&p=687439&viewfull=1#post687439

SB: 1 Oblivion Ring -> Humility

In tandem with 2x Lingering Souls and 1x Elspeth, I find this gives me a huge edge over creature-based decks like Maverick and Merfolk. Merfolk especially being a problem, but it's worked wonders so far.
My reasoning for swaping it in for O-ring is that it really functions the same in the Show and Tell matchups, if not better, and it gives me a huge edge versus other matchups.
I like it so much, I may even up it to a 2 of.

Thoughts?

[Megadeus]

A slight change to my sideboard: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21441-DTB-Blade-Control&p=687439&viewfull=1#post687439

SB: 1 Oblivion Ring -> Humility

In tandem with 2x Lingering Souls and 1x Elspeth, I find this gives me a huge edge over creature-based decks like Maverick and Merfolk. Merfolk especially being a problem, but it's worked wonders so far.
My reasoning for swaping it in for O-ring is that it really functions the same in the Show and Tell matchups, if not better, and it gives me a huge edge versus other matchups.
I like it so much, I may even up it to a 2 of.

Thoughts?

I as well have really been liking humility. The only case I could see vs SnT is that humility doesnt shut down their BW for petals and go infinite. But it being decent against other creature decks might be enough for it to be better and be weak in the slim corner case

[sadakiyo]

In What matchups do you guys side in timely reinforcement?

[Artlee]

In What matchups do you guys side in timely reinforcement?

Burn
U/R Delver
Zoo

Decks that go for the fast kill that are not combo (Some say burn is combo, but you know what I mean).

[preddi]

Burn
U/R Delver
Zoo

Decks that go for the fast kill that are not combo (Some say burn is combo, but you know what I mean).

What about Goblins? I mean is not great but better than Counterspells I guess? Not sure though.

-preddi

[Megadeus]

Unless they have an odd ball list ill bring it in for spell pierce along with 2 Humility and taking out 2 forces

[Gros]

Hi guys, my name is Christian and i've been playing this deck in various versions since a year now, now i'm testing a version that plays 2x supreme verdicts and the CB/top package maindeck (4x top 3x counterbalance) and i'm pretty satisgied with this version, my metagame now is getting full of BGx like Bug delver shaman with confidant, or jund decks, do u have any suggestion on how to adapt the deck to the metagame changings? i'm thinking that in a meta full of blackbased Elspeth, knight_errant would be great, and RIP would be good too in the sb, does anyone of you had some tests results with RIP? do u side out Snappies for them??
i post here my list for reference:

UWr Balance Blade

Lands: 22

4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 Arid mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Glacial Fortress
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
4 island
2 plains

Creatures: 9

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Other Spells : 30
4 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
3 spell pierce
1 counterspell
4 force of will
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
3 jace, the mind sculptor
2 supreme verdict

SB

2 disenchant
1 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
1 counterbalance
1 supreme verdict
2 engineered explosives
1 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 relic of progenitus
1 path to exile
1 vendilion clique

[learntolove6]

Hi guys, my name is Christian and i've been playing this deck in various versions since a year now, now i'm testing a version that plays 2x supreme verdicts and the CB/top package maindeck (4x top 3x counterbalance) and i'm pretty satisgied with this version, my metagame now is getting full of BGx like Bug delver shaman with confidant, or jund decks, do u have any suggestion on how to adapt the deck to the metagame changings? i'm thinking that in a meta full of blackbased Elspeth, knight_errant would be great, and RIP would be good too in the sb, does anyone of you had some tests results with RIP? do u side out Snappies for them??
i post here my list for reference:

UWr Balance Blade

Lands: 22

4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 Arid mesa
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Glacial Fortress
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
4 island
2 plains

Creatures: 9

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Other Spells : 30
4 sensei's divining top
3 counterbalance
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plowshares
3 spell pierce
1 counterspell
4 force of will
1 umezawa's jitte
1 batterskull
3 jace, the mind sculptor
2 supreme verdict

SB

2 disenchant
1 spell pierce
1 flusterstorm
1 counterbalance
1 supreme verdict
2 engineered explosives
1 red elemental blast
2 pyroblast
2 relic of progenitus
1 path to exile
1 vendilion clique

well from the looks of it, if bg based decks are very popular, cb/top doesn't seem very good. verdict is insane. elspeth really isan't that great. it's never impressed me, but i could be wrong.

[Megadeus]

I may play in my local little tourney saturday. These are the decks that I know people there play: 2 Maverick, 1 Wb Death and Taxes, 1 Goblins, 1-3 UR Delver, 1 UB Tezzeret Stax. Would you guys say that it is safe to just go ahead and put like 3 Forces to the SB and just run more creature control? Also is humility worth it in the Maverick MU? Especially considering I already run 3x Supreme Verdict between my main and SB. And one final question, should I run 2 or 3 SB Sulfur Elemental?

[gypsy]

got 2nd at a 63 person event last weekend with UWr blade, really liked my list a lot, though a few cards underperformed due to not playing against the matchups they were meant for

Lands (23)

4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Island
1 Plains

Creatures (11)

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

Spells (26)

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder


Sideboard (15)

1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Mountain

[KobeBryan]

got 2nd at a 63 person event last weekend with UWr blade, really liked my list a lot, though a few cards underperformed due to not playing against the matchups they were meant for

Lands (23)

4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Island
1 Plains

Creatures (11)

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

Spells (26)

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder


Sideboard (15)

1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Mountain

just take out the spell snares. I would not maindeck that card.

[learntolove6]

I may play in my local little tourney saturday. These are the decks that I know people there play: 2 Maverick, 1 Wb Death and Taxes, 1 Goblins, 1-3 UR Delver, 1 UB Tezzeret Stax. Would you guys say that it is safe to just go ahead and put like 3 Forces to the SB and just run more creature control? Also is humility worth it in the Maverick MU? Especially considering I already run 3x Supreme Verdict between my main and SB. And one final question, should I run 2 or 3 SB Sulfur Elemental?

don't cut fow entirely, although youll probably side them out, you need a catch all game one.i don't remember how many you're running, but if it's 4 cut that to 3. also, yes humility is 100% worth it, as it also just beats goblins, i find.

[mini1337s]

got 2nd at a 63 person event last weekend with UWr blade, really liked my list a lot, though a few cards underperformed due to not playing against the matchups they were meant for

Lands (23)

4 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Moorland Haunt
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Academy Ruins
4 Island
1 Plains

Creatures (11)

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

Spells (26)

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Detention Sphere
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder


Sideboard (15)

1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Mountain
Mana Deprived Super Series, fuck yeah! Good job on your placing Justin.

Not sure I'm a fan of the red splash. Aside from REB, black does everything red does, and than some. The red splash gives you the same benefit for Engineered Explosives as black. I find the mix of proactive discard spell is stronger than most countermagic. Access to Lingering Souls, whether in the maindeck or the sideboard can huge, but Timely has its merits as well. Nihil Spellbomb is the absolute titties with Academy Ruins.
How did you find the 1 of Detention Sphere? I'm on the fence myself, but am interested in your thoughts.
Great placing once again!

[gypsy]

just take out the spell snares. I would not maindeck that card.


really dont know why no one likes that card, has always been solid for me, every deck has 2 drops, sure its not amazing against any specific deck but really feel like you need it for the deck in general

[gypsy]

Mana Deprived Super Series, fuck yeah! Good job on your placing Justin.

Not sure I'm a fan of the red splash. Aside from REB, black does everything red does, and than some. The red splash gives you the same benefit for Engineered Explosives as black. I find the mix of proactive discard spell is stronger than most countermagic. Access to Lingering Souls, whether in the maindeck or the sideboard can huge, but Timely has its merits as well. Nihil Spellbomb is the absolute titties with Academy Ruins.
How did you find the 1 of Detention Sphere? I'm on the fence myself, but am interested in your thoughts.
Great placing once again!

Thanks a lot!

the red vs black thing is more of a personal preference. I personally do not like playing discard spells in general (not just legacy but every format/deck) , would much prefer to be reactive with counterspells as it suites my playstyle more and feel it gives me more of an edge though i do see the merits of having the discard. Lingering Souls feels like training wheels to me, i tried it and never felt like I ever needed it in the matchups it was good in and it is terrible in many matchups.

Nihil was one of the cards I was considering but honestly I haven't played against a graveyard based deck in so long that I have basically given up trying to beat them if I ever do face them, only play surgicals due to them being good against other decks and are good with snapcaster. If you expect heavy graveyard meta than I could see playing them but to me they are just not worth the sideboard space even though they do basically replace themselves.

Timely was actually really good, gaining 6 life won me a few games as well as trading for a mongoose from rug delver I would highly recommend the card to anyone playing this deck.

The detention sphere was only ok, I didnt play against Show and Tell which is the main reason I played it main deck, being a blue card actually helped a lot as if it was a non blue card I would have lost a few games due to not having something to pitch to FoW. The Oblivion Ring won me a couple of games so guess it was just random having drawn that after sideboard instead of sphere but having the ability to remove anything in play is worth the 1 slot md I think as it is just so versatile so I would probably keep it in

[Megadeus]

It is nice having the sphere as a catch all that can pitch to fow in G1, I have considered cutting it as it is a tad clunky though. I always seem to be spend three mana at sorcery speed to remove like a 1 or 2 drop...

[Apollo]

If S&T decks aren't part of your meta I think Sphere may just be better in the SB though I'm still testing. I agree that it is clunky (ORings have not been maindeck staples for a reason) and I rarely if ever actually 2 for 1 anyone with it so it often turns into an overpriced removal spell. That said it can be an efficient way to get rid of troublesome planeswalkers that stick so it has that going for it too.

[twndomn]

I honestly don't see this thread to continue in its current form. There're 2 kind of top 8 decks that use Stoneblade: EsperBlade and MiracleBlade.

EsperBlade is self-explanatory. Let's look closely between the so called Blade Control vs MiracleBlade. From all the current lists, the differences are:

Blade control -> MiracleBlade
Snapcaster Mage -> Entreat the Angel
Snapcaster Mage -> Entreat the Angel
Engineered Explosives -> Termius
Engineered Explosives -> Termius/Supreme Verdict

Some MiracleBlade decks run more Snapcasters or less, but you can pretty much narrow down the differences to about 4 cards. I don't see much decks with just the so-called Blade Control in any tournament result sites, it's usually either MiracleBlade or EsperBlade. Hence, it's logical to conclude that most competitive players either run Esper package in conjunction with Stoneblade or run Miracle cards along with Stoneblade, not committing to either sides is rare and the tournament result shows.

[mini1337s]

Does the increase in Abrupt Decay, Supreme Verdict, and Terminus make Elspeth, Knight-Errant a stronger inclusion? Similar to Lingering Souls, it applies pressure after board wipes, and gives Snapcasters and Stoneforge Mystics a bit more bang for their buck.
While not a hugely played card, it survives Pernicious Deed as well, giving a leg up versus Nic-Fit and some BUG control decks.
Thoughts?

[Megadeus]

Ive been testing a bit more of an Aggro version with an Elspeth and trying out 2 Mirran Crusaders thanks to the rise of BUG decks. So far I havent gotten elspeth out in any game that mattered, and the mirran crusaders have been awesome at beating BUG.

[Purgatory]

Played EsperBlade in a small local this weekend, to a rather dissapointing 3-2 finish, lost twice to Death and Taxes (what?). Beat Goblins (2-1), Bant Maverick (2-0) and Miracles (2-0). Played a rather standard list but with a Trinket Mage package (EE and Top in MD, Neelde and Nihil Spellbomb in the side). Some things that I noted during the day:

* Supreme Verdict is great, and should probably be represented two or three times in the 75. EE was not even half good at clearing the board from goblins with all the wonky mana costs, and having a WoG that can't be touched by blasts and pitches to FoW in a pinch is great. Two in the sideboard feels correct for me.

* EE, being underwhelming against Goblins, quickly regained its position as the favourite card in the deck against the Miracle deck. I played it with UUW in the cost and UUWW to dodge Counterbalance and then blow it up. My own Top did a lot of work as well, since both games were really grindy, I managed to beat him with Batterskull in game 1 and Jace him out in game 2 after he killed my first 11-loyalty Jace with three Angels, and Planeswalker uniqueness rule'd out the second one, I finally managed to get the third and last one to 13 before he could find an answer.

* Games against DnT were terrible, I lost the first match of the day first to Thalia doing a lot of work to keep me on the backfoot with mana development and then I lost the second game from having to mulligan while he got the old three-Wastelands-inf-Stoneforge hand. I used my Karakas to kill other Karakas (Karaki?) three times during the day. I lost the second match against DnT while at 2-1 (25 people, 5 round swiss, really wanted to win to draw in round 5), the first game to his like seven Stoneforge Mystic, the second on a mull to five. The match-up, however infrequent, seems difficult in any case.

I finished 9th on Tiebreakers, with two people on 3-2 in. Darn it.

[Qweerios]

What do you guys think about playing esperblade for Deathrite Shaman? A single Tropical Island is enough to have access to green mana for potential life gain, EE @4, and access to maindeck GY hate. I think this deck could benefit from the mana accel, extra reach, and additional utility provided by Deathrite. Here is what I have in mind:


Creatures (15)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

Spells (23)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

2 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Engineered Plague
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Krosan Grip
1 Supreme Verdict


I have a few questions concerning Stoneblade in general:

Whats the best Sword of X and Y? I think SoFaF has the best synergy and utility but SoBaM is also very tempting.
Would 4 Deathrites warrant the inclusion of a SoXaY mainboard?
Why are some lists not playing 4 FoW mainboard?
Assuming I don't have space for all the utility lands, Karakas or Riptide Lab? Which one is better?
Are there any crucial SB cards I am missing?
Can this manabase be improved upon?

Thanks!

[Megadeus]

I have been thinking of DRS as well... My thoughts were to use Bayou as the green dual though, because the only time you would want to fetch it up is if you have DRS, and that way the single dual gives you access to either ability. It might be wrong, because then you must change your fetch lands numbers to compensate...

I like Sword of FaF right now, but have debated at a time of using Sword of BaM. Also LaS for the miracles MU, (No surprise angel blocking for you!). Or even WaP, to protect from REB and no angel blocks, along with a way to kill your opponent faster...

Edit: Got my first Tundra!

[ThediscoPower]

I have been thinking of DRS as well... My thoughts were to use Bayou as the green dual though, because the only time you would want to fetch it up is if you have DRS, and that way the single dual gives you access to either ability. It might be wrong, because then you must change your fetch lands numbers to compensate...

I like Sword of FaF right now, but have debated at a time of using Sword of BaM. Also LaS for the miracles MU, (No surprise angel blocking for you!). Or even WaP, to protect from REB and no angel blocks, along with a way to kill your opponent faster...

Edit: Got my first Tundra!

Right now, I actually like WaP better as a way to trump angels and removal in miracle matchup, as well as a way to have a edge in the mirror. It also helped me well in combo matchups as a faster clock. I tryed it thanks to justin Richardson's article on stoneblade (here : http://manadeprived.com/stoneblade-primer-pt-1/ Really good article, worth a read), and I have not been desapointed by it yet.

[Megadeus]

WaP does seems pretty sweet when you put it like that... I don't know how much I like the SB Meddling Mages. Anyone ever try them out?

[mini1337s]

WaP does seems pretty sweet when you put it like that... I don't know how much I like the SB Meddling Mages. Anyone ever try them out?
I have, but in my experience, they die to removal before they matter. In a deck like BANT or Maverick with a light blue splash, Sylvan Safekeeper and Mother of Runes can make them shine, but in Stoneblade, I have my doubts.
I'm partial to Feast and Famine, but I'm only bringing it in against a control mirror. I can get behind the arguement for War and Peace as well.

Thoughts on Venser, Shaper Savant? I was watching Esper vs UW Miracles match on SCG last night, and Venser + Karakas was doing work. Is this a card worth thinking about in Esper, or is it better suited to Miracle decks?

[ThediscoPower]

WaP does seems pretty sweet when you put it like that... I don't know how much I like the SB Meddling Mages. Anyone ever try them out?

I had them when I was playing the u/w version (reconverted to esper now because i was missing Lingering souls, basicaly, and because I wanted to shoot myself each time I had a spell snare in my hands). As far as they go, they are awesome in the combo matchups I used them in. They helped in the fact that they bring some tempo against those decks, because you are going to name what scares you the most at that exact moment, usually resulting in them having to reconsider their plan (sometimes even abandon their plan to attack you from another angle). in any case, this usually results in delaying them (thus, you are winning time to get more ressources, while he is setting up for his attempt), and in bonus you get to beat him down some. Besides the time and beatdown, they also allow you to bypass xantid swarm, and even buy time against that kind of annoying card (usually, your mage won't be enough, but time is the important ressource here. They are trying to sculpt their hand to go off no matter what you have, you are trying to hinder them just enough so they can't go off before your clock kills them). They also work very well with V Clique, and every other way to look at people's hand I guess. Also, a fellow Sourcer was telling me that the mage could also find uses in a matchup like miracles, but I never tested that, so I do not know.

Now, I am not playing them anymore in my esper list, and the reason for that is the fact that Meddling mage has one problem (and this is strictly from my experience, so it might also not be true, but it is what i felt), and the problem is that you absolutely need to play 3 of them in your sideboard, or not play them at all. Each time I tryed to cut the number bellow that, the mages became very unrelyable, in general. You want them as fast as possible in play, and you don't want to spend 2 turns trying to find one desperately, just to never find one. So only having 1 in my side seemed useless, 2 wasn't that much better for my game plan, 3 seemed like a really good number, and 4 feels overkill, even tho I can see an argument to be made for the more beatdown lists (those running delvers and geists maindeck). so as such, I had to cut them completely because I did not have enough place for them in my sideboard (in the end, it is a card that only comes in for combo, so it stays 3 spot for limited uses), and don' want to be playing only 2, if I am to play them.

[gypsy]

Thanks for reading my article!

Ya the meddling mages were not tested extensively and were a last minute addition based on the overmaster show and tell decks that had been popular at the time. I have cut them for red blasts since then as they were pretty much useless and would not play them again.

War and peace has been really good, feast and famine while fine has not been game breaking when compared to war and peace and I highly encourage everyone to try it out. I am probably going to try adding an elspeth in the sideboard to my list that I posted on the previous page, seems like it could be really good in a lot matchups and if there is a lot of nic fit or junk style decks in your meta I would recommend it

[Tom T]

Since everyone is on Esper- or MiracleBlade now I'd like to share the BladeControl list me and my friend play in the Netherlands. He top4'ed the annual Dutch Legacy Championships with it and we have an awesome win-streak with it the past couple of months.


4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Ponder
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Counterspell
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Spell Pierce
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Academy Ruins
1 Batterskull
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
7 Island
2 Spell Snare
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Plains
2 Marsh Flats
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage

Sideboard (mine):
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Back to Basics
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Disenchant
2 Humility
1 Silence
1 Force of Will
2 Rest in Peace

Sideboard (my friends'):
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Terminus
2 Pithing Needle
2 Back to Basics
2 Disenchant
2 Humility
1 Silence
1 Force of Will
2 Rest in Peace



Firstly, the deck is built with the mindset that surprising opponents is a strong win-condition. When the opponent doesn't exactly know what to expect or expects cards and amounts of copies similar decks play that you don't, you have the advantage.

The main reason why I play UW instead of UWb or UWr is because it gives me the most stable mana-base. The last year I found myself almost always just fetch basics. I was playing 4 Tundra at the time and was a bit afraid the situation would come up I wouldn't have access to U/W if I needed it. Later, I played 3 Tundra. My team suggested to test playing just 2 Tundra, because I only fetched them in case I really needed them. Me and my friend only play 3 non-basics now (!) and we reliably reach 5 mana without Wasteland pissing on our parade. 10 Fetchlands have been working well and 3 basic plains might seem a bit much, but increases the chance you hit W in the early turns immensely. Academy Ruins isn't there for Engineered Explosives (well, it works though), but mainly for recurring equipment. I think EE-lock is overrated, because it doesn't come up often. And when it does you usually want to draw business instead of answers. Usually opponents jump through major hoops to remove equipment. And when they succeed, you just fetch them back. Also, I'm surprised about the amount of times I get Cabal Therapied or Thoughtseized. And often it hits fetched equipment after Stoneforge Mystic. It would seem a bit iffy, but next to Qasali Pridemage this is usually the reason I lose my equipment.

In my experience, the countersuit results in awesome starting hands. Against combo you have a decent match-up pre-board. Spell Pierce is awesome in the meta-game right now. I was a bit sceptic about Spell Snare, but it has proven to be golden in a lot of match-ups. Countering opposing Stoneforge Mystics, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia, Counterbalance etc has been great. People think the Spell Snare has lost its power, and it has. But it's still really powerful.
3 Force of Will is enough back-up against potential blow-outs. The lone Counterspell seems a bit sketchy. I don't like it to have it in my opening 7, but it's a great top-deck throughout the game. The countersuit itself has been really satisfying.

Three Snapcaster Mage has been ideal for me. I used to play 4 of them and I love the card. But my friend pointed out there are often moments multiple Snapcaster Mage are just 2/1 flash guys.
I was also deeply in love with Vendilion Clique and used to play 2 mainboard, with 1 Karakas as potential soft lock.
My friend asked me to just play one tournament without them. At the end of that tournament I realized Clique is fantastic, but not necessary. I didn't really miss them.
I don't like Engineered Explosives that much, but it's great against Maverick and Combo. It's a versatile card and that's what I want; an all-round deck. Two Supreme Verdict punish opponents who overextend in the face of my Batterskull, like bad goblin-pilots (I've met a lot of people who underestimate playing that deck). All three cards are also great against Maverick and tempo-decks.
Four Jace is a lot. Drawing multiples does occur often. The reason we play 4 is because against blue decks the game depends on who has the most Jaces. The fourth Jace is one of the reasons we usually win against control decks, not just blue based control decks but other control decks as well. Usually players have to dedicate a lot of mana, cards and turns to remove Jace. When they do, you just play another one in the following turn.

And now, the joke of the deck; Tamiyo.
Who in his right mind would play the card?! Well, the whole team laughed when my friend start playing it in his sideboard and boarded it in almost every match during GP Brussels.
Opponents didn't mind the card until they lost because of it. It's underrated and for good reason; it seems underwhelming.
But think for a second how many times people just have one or two threats in play. The ultimate is horrifying and lays a lot of pressure on the opponent. Next to that, players usually get paranoid when a planeswalker hits the board, so it could result in a couple of fog-effects. As a nice bonus it can draw you cards if you want to.
Well these arguments didn't convince me. I started playing the card as a joke and I was surprised by it. You should just experience the way this card works in this deck. I won't say it's the absolute holy grail, but I'm happy with it.

The sideboard is pretty straight-forward except for some unusual cards.
Back to Basics just wrecks some decks, usually 3-colour midrange decks. BUG-tempo scoops to this as well as decks like MUD or other tier 2+ decks. I also bring them in against combo to raise the U-count.
Timely Reinforcements is great against tempo, burn, quick aggro decks or goblins. Humility is great (but not auto-win) against Goblins. But the reason we play two is also because of Show and Tell and Sneak Attack. Next to that, there are a lot of random decks which just auto-lose against a resolved Humility (like MUD for instance).
Pithing Needle is a really flexible answer to a lot of cards. Against SoXaY, planeswalkers, Sensei's Divining Top etc.
Silence is, like a lot of other cards in the deck, a card that surprises opponents. We use it as disruption against combo and to power out Jace or other win-conditions.


Let me know what you think and what your results are!

Tom

[Megadeus]

I have most of the cards for that list. I may try it out, but im not a huge fan of the lack of mishras factory...

[mini1337s]

Playing at a large tournament this upcoming weekend. Here is the maindeck and sideboard I will be taking. I would love any thoughts or criticisms, especially with the siding guide.

ESPER STONEBLADE:
CREATURES: [9]
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

INSTANTS [14]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition

PLANESWALKERS [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

ARTIFACTS [5]
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives

SORCERIES [6]
1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls

LAND [23]
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins

SIDEBOARD [15]
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Supreme Verdict
1 COP: Red
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine



+++++++++++++++++++++++
Merfolk:
OUT:
4x Force of Will

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Goblins:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Circle of Protection: Red

+++++++++++++++++++++++
RUG:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize

IN:
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Aggro:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Control:
OUT:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Maverick:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Sword of Feast and Famine

+++++++++++++++++++++++
JUNK, Loam, ETC:
Out:
4x Force of Will

In:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant
1x Moat
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W Miracles:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W or Esper Stoneblade
OUT:
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant


+++++++++++++++++++++++
Reanimator:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Show and Tell:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
1x Humility
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce
1x Disenchant

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Dredge:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Moat
1x Enlightened Tutor

+++++++++++++++++++++++
ANT/Fetchland Tendrils/Belcher decks:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Swords to Plowshares


IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Nic-Fit:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Affinity:
OUT:
1x Force of Will
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Counterspell
1x Jace, the Mind Scultpor

IN:
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Disenchant
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BIG Affinity (Tezz builds)
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Mono-Red (RDW):
OUT:
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Thoughtseize
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

IN:
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/R Delver:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
2x Spell Pierce

[Qweerios]

I tied for first place at a local tournament using Blade Control for the first time, the list I used is posted above (Deathrite Shaman). I took down BGw Nic Fit with Rector, Burn, and BUG Control. I lost to Goblins as we timed for G1 and took lethal after having dug 35 cards deep in my library for my remaining 3 StP and 1 Verdict (I was missing an EE so played 1 main Verdict instead). I finally found Verdict after a 3 Brainstorm turn involving a snapcasters and stoneforges for shuffle effects and couldnt cast it as I was on 3 lands and a fetch with 0 lands left in my deck. I think that if I had the chance to bring in the sideboard, I would have won quite easely.

Speaking of sideboard, Engineered Plague or Zealous Persecution?

What would be a good Esperblade manabase to support DRS? Is a Bayou worth it? How about a basic Swamp?

[ThediscoPower]

Playing at a large tournament this upcoming weekend. Here is the maindeck and sideboard I will be taking. I would love any thoughts or criticisms, especially with the siding guide.

ESPER STONEBLADE:
CREATURES: [9]
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

INSTANTS [14]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition

PLANESWALKERS [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

ARTIFACTS [5]
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives

SORCERIES [6]
1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls

LAND [23]
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins

SIDEBOARD [15]
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Supreme Verdict
1 COP: Red
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine



+++++++++++++++++++++++
Merfolk:
OUT:
4x Force of Will

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Goblins:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Circle of Protection: Red

+++++++++++++++++++++++
RUG:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize

IN:
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Aggro:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Control:
OUT:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Maverick:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Sword of Feast and Famine

+++++++++++++++++++++++
JUNK, Loam, ETC:
Out:
4x Force of Will

In:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant
1x Moat
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W Miracles:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W or Esper Stoneblade
OUT:
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant


+++++++++++++++++++++++
Reanimator:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Show and Tell:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
1x Humility
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce
1x Disenchant

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Dredge:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Moat
1x Enlightened Tutor

+++++++++++++++++++++++
ANT/Fetchland Tendrils/Belcher decks:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Swords to Plowshares


IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Nic-Fit:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Affinity:
OUT:
1x Force of Will
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Counterspell
1x Jace, the Mind Scultpor

IN:
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Disenchant
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BIG Affinity (Tezz builds)
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Mono-Red (RDW):
OUT:
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Thoughtseize
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

IN:
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/R Delver:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
2x Spell Pierce

I think you might want to bring in supreme verdict againt rug, and take out all copies of force of will in that match. Also, I think humility might also be good in that matchup too. I don't have time to look at you plan in detail right now, but that's what stuck out to me the most at quick glance

[B-rad]

As a Goblin player I will say that COP:red really isn't that good vs us. We are attacking with a bunch of small guys rather than than 1 or 2 big guys and it really ties up your mana. Also, if the goblin player is playing green you can be 99% sure they're bringing in K Grips so it kind of gets caught in the crossfire anyway. I might replace it with a D Sphere because the thing I fear the most in this matchup is losing my vial.

[gypsy]

How have you guys been liking Supreme Verdict? I found myself playing as I normally would if I didn't have them in the deck because I didn't want to rely on drawing a 1 or 2-of Wrath to get me out of certain situations so I would play to not get myself in those situations were it would be good so I found it to be a little unnecessary for the most part and most of the time would just sit in my hand. I know that is probably just me, I have just found with tight play you don't need cards like Verdict or Lingering Souls to bail you out of sticky situations that a lot of other players find themselves in.

[iriisnes]

Playing at a large tournament this upcoming weekend. Here is the maindeck and sideboard I will be taking. I would love any thoughts or criticisms, especially with the siding guide.

ESPER STONEBLADE:
CREATURES: [9]
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

INSTANTS [14]
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
1 Intuition

PLANESWALKERS [3]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

ARTIFACTS [5]
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Engineered Explosives

SORCERIES [6]
1 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls

LAND [23]
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
1 Dust Bowl
1 Academy Ruins

SIDEBOARD [15]
1 Moat
1 Humility
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Supreme Verdict
1 COP: Red
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sword of Feast and Famine



+++++++++++++++++++++++
Merfolk:
OUT:
4x Force of Will

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Goblins:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Circle of Protection: Red

+++++++++++++++++++++++
RUG:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize

IN:
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Aggro:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BUG Control:
OUT:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Maverick:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
1x Moat
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Humility
1x Sword of Feast and Famine

+++++++++++++++++++++++
JUNK, Loam, ETC:
Out:
4x Force of Will

In:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant
1x Moat
1x Humility

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W Miracles:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/W or Esper Stoneblade
OUT:
2x Inquisition of Kozilek

IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Disenchant


+++++++++++++++++++++++
Reanimator:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Show and Tell:
OUT:
2x Engineered Explosives
3x Lingering Souls

IN:
1x Humility
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce
1x Disenchant

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Dredge:
OUT:
4x Force of Will
1x Counterspell

IN:
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Moat
1x Enlightened Tutor

+++++++++++++++++++++++
ANT/Fetchland Tendrils/Belcher decks:
OUT:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Swords to Plowshares


IN:
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Spell Pierce
2x Flusterstorm

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Nic-Fit:
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Affinity:
OUT:
1x Force of Will
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Counterspell
1x Jace, the Mind Scultpor

IN:
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Disenchant
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
BIG Affinity (Tezz builds)
???

+++++++++++++++++++++++
Mono-Red (RDW):
OUT:
2x Vendilion Clique
1x Thoughtseize
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

IN:
1x Circle of Protection: Red
1x Enlightened Tutor
2x Spell Pierce

+++++++++++++++++++++++
U/R Delver:
OUT:
1x Thoughtseize
1x Vendilion Clique

IN:
2x Spell Pierce



Overall, I like your board plans. I ran a 1 of humilty at the last SCG LA for maverick, elves, Show and Tell, and Reanimator, but it never came up; how has it been for you?

I've played a lot at my local store against Omnishow and other combo decks, and I've found that Flusterstorm is the MVP. Against Omnishow especially, it comes down to a big turn where you have a counter-battle over a S&T. I would take out 2x StP for 2x Flusterstorm because it dominates all counterbattles. I often bring it in against hymn to tourach decks as well because it acts like an "uncounterable" spell pierce.

Surgical Extraction is good against show and tell (and other combo) as well. It opens up the nuts play of T1 discard their S&T (or other critical piece), Surgical S&T. I know this is a corner case, but Surgical is good late to mid-game when you can grab a cantrip from their yard and peek at their hand to see if it's time to resolve a Jace or humility. I'd take out 2x StP for 2x surgical.

If you're looking for something against BUG delver, I suggest perish. Affinity and Stacks are huge at my store and I always have 1-2 hurkyl's recall in the board, but I don't think this is the right call for a bigger event like SCG.

Good luck at your tournament, if you're going to LA, I hope to see you there.

[Megadeus]

I have a one of humility but I also have never drawn it yet... I kind of would like to up it to 2 of them though. I need to get some flusterstorms for my board as well. What do you guys suggest for a very GB heavy meta? Last Wednesday I played against GB Nic Fit and Junk. I know at least one other guy was playing Junk and another playing Maverick i think. A lot of GBW decks around. BTW I am on just UW not Esper sadly...

Also I play Supreme Verdict as a 2 of. It is just a good spell in most MU's. The uncounterability is pretty relevant as well. Only issue I have had is when my opponent has a Thrun on board but that is such a corner case I think it is negligible...

[gypsy]

I have a one of humility but I also have never drawn it yet... I kind of would like to up it to 2 of them though. I need to get some flusterstorms for my board as well. What do you guys suggest for a very GB heavy meta? Last Wednesday I played against GB Nic Fit and Junk. I know at least one other guy was playing Junk and another playing Maverick i think. A lot of GBW decks around. BTW I am on just UW not Esper sadly...

Also I play Supreme Verdict as a 2 of. It is just a good spell in most MU's. The uncounterability is pretty relevant as well. Only issue I have had is when my opponent has a Thrun on board but that is such a corner case I think it is negligible...



best cards I have found against GBx decks are Planeswalkers like elspeth or tamiyo, they get around abrupt decay and can deal with big threats on their own

[mini1337s]

Overall, I like your board plans. I ran a 1 of humilty at the last SCG LA for maverick, elves, Show and Tell, and Reanimator, but it never came up; how has it been for you?

I've played a lot at my local store against Omnishow and other combo decks, and I've found that Flusterstorm is the MVP. Against Omnishow especially, it comes down to a big turn where you have a counter-battle over a S&T. I would take out 2x StP for 2x Flusterstorm because it dominates all counterbattles. I often bring it in against hymn to tourach decks as well because it acts like an "uncounterable" spell pierce.

Surgical Extraction is good against show and tell (and other combo) as well. It opens up the nuts play of T1 discard their S&T (or other critical piece), Surgical S&T. I know this is a corner case, but Surgical is good late to mid-game when you can grab a cantrip from their yard and peek at their hand to see if it's time to resolve a Jace or humility. I'd take out 2x StP for 2x surgical.

If you're looking for something against BUG delver, I suggest perish. Affinity and Stacks are huge at my store and I always have 1-2 hurkyl's recall in the board, but I don't think this is the right call for a bigger event like SCG.

Good luck at your tournament, if you're going to LA, I hope to see you there.
The one-of Humility is absolutely nuts! With Lingering Souls, I just outclass creatures decks by a mile. They have to draw enchantment removal, and aside from Krosan Grip, I still have the potential to counter it.
I actually cut one of the two Flusterstorms when testing at my local last night. I added in a single Elspeth, Knight-Errant in, which I was very happy with. I brought it in versus Miracles and was very impressed with its performance. It forced him to find a Detention Sphere, but by the time he had, it had still applied 12 points of damage and forced a V-Clique to chump. Being able to force dudes on the table even after board wipes is huge, and it didn't disappoint.
I'm tempted to run Perish, but I've been really happy with my Supreme Verdicts (3x Souls, an Elspeth, creatures with ETB abilities so I still get value). I'm not anticipating much Maverick, but I am anticipating BUG control, so I'll bring my Perishes, just incase my mind changes before the event.
The tourney itself is a team event with a triple power payout (Timetwister doesn't count as power!) for first. I'm on legacy, and my teammates are playing Spirit Jund (Modern) and RUG (Standard). There should be about 60-70 people there (unless there is a freak snowstorm), so I'm really metagaming versus 20-25 legacy decks. I know a few deck choices in the room, but most people will opt for control builds. I'll do a report and let you guys know how it goes!

[Gedaco]

best cards I have found against GBx decks are Planeswalkers like elspeth or tamiyo, they get around abrupt decay and can deal with big threats on their own


Sure planeswalkers are good answers but are they strong enough? Elspeth makes a chump blocker and Tamiyo locks a permanent .. but usually they have more creatures. It slows them up but is it enough?

I'm not looking for anything with the power of (for example) Jace, TMS but do we have direct and effective choices?

I'm testing at this moment Geist of Saint Traft and Mirran Crusader and the only problem I found is actually being able to flee from the wastelands and still be able to cast them with counterspells mana available. (btw, I run 5 Islands and 2 Plains).

Anti-graveyard stops Shaman but they're still very agressive....
Discard is anoying!
Leyline of Sancity? Maybe?
Sword of Feast and Famine?

------//---------
What about Jund?
Spell Snare has been fantastic for me!

Thoughts, both? :)

[gypsy]

Sure planeswalkers are good answers but are they strong enough? Elspeth makes a chump blocker and Tamiyo locks a permanent .. but usually they have more creatures. It slows them up but is it enough?

I'm not looking for anything with the power of (for example) Jace, TMS but do we have direct and effective choices?

I'm testing at this moment Geist of Saint Traft and Mirran Crusader and the only problem I found is actually being able to flee from the wastelands and still be able to cast them with counterspells mana available. (btw, I run 5 Islands and 2 Plains).

Anti-graveyard stops Shaman but they're still very agressive....
Discard is anoying!
Leyline of Sancity? Maybe?
Sword of Feast and Famine?

------//---------
What about Jund?
Spell Snare has been fantastic for me!

Thoughts, both? :)


from my experiences the green decks usually only have 1 threat you care about, you can usually deal with the rest of their cards with stp snapcaster etc so having a chump blocker or locking down something over and over is what actually ends up winning the game as it buys you the time to set up your other powerful cards, if multiple creatures are a problem might want to play more verdicts or paths, cant really say ive ever had trouble with these types of decks, careful play and knowing what to board out has usually been good enough for me

[ThediscoPower]

How have you guys been liking Supreme Verdict? I found myself playing as I normally would if I didn't have them in the deck because I didn't want to rely on drawing a 1 or 2-of Wrath to get me out of certain situations so I would play to not get myself in those situations were it would be good so I found it to be a little unnecessary for the most part and most of the time would just sit in my hand. I know that is probably just me, I have just found with tight play you don't need cards like Verdict or Lingering Souls to bail you out of sticky situations that a lot of other players find themselves in.

I actually had the same situations with verdict, in the sense that they would stay in my hands for an extended amount of time, but it ended up being useful at some point, as having one in hand somewhat lets me play geedier, I guess? So if you ask me how much I like it, I would say that it does what I want it to do in creature matchups, so I like it enough for my sideboard. As far as if it is needed, I would say I don't know. I never really got in a situation where I absolutely needed to wrath to win since I use that card, so yeah...

However, you talked about Tamyo. Have you tested with it? If yes, how was it?

[Megadeus]

Played a bunch against BUG Delver today at FnM and at Lunch earlier. Man it's a rough MU. Hymn to Tourach is such a bitch to deal with if you don't have a Spell Pierce. Resolved Walkers are very good, but the key is getting them to stick around for more than one turn... Also use removal wisely. You swords a couple of Goyfs and suddenly a Tombstalker is smashing your face.

[gypsy]

won a gpt for denver today with this list

4 stoneforge mystic
4 snapcaster mage
3 clique
1 batterskull
1 jitte
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plow
1 ponder
1 top
1 counterspell
2 spell snare
2 spell pierce
4 force of will
2 explosives
1 moorland haunt
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
1 riptide lab
1 plains
4 island
4 flooded strand
4 scalding tarn
1 arid mesa
4 tundra
1 volcanic island

sb
2 path to exile
2 timely reinforcements
1 venser, shaper savant
1 sphinxs revelation
1 tamiyo
3 red blast
1 mountain
2 flusterstorm
1 disenchant
1 sword of war and peace

no idea if tamiyo or sphinxs revelation are good, no one was playing the decks i wanted to try them out in, i think the tamiyo is good, not sure on the revelation.

rest of the deck was solid, would probably add back some graveyard hate for the gp not sure what i would cut though

[Megadeus]

Revelation doesnt seem very good sadly... Tamiyo though doesnt seem too bad.

[LDX]

Guys, quick question: why does everyone play Esper Stoneblade and no more UW or BW? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each variant?

[mike1987]

Guys, quick question: why does everyone play Esper Stoneblade and no more UW or BW? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each variant?

Playing black and blue gives you options for discards, counterspells, snapcasters and Jace TMS. Discards are often good early against decks of all format, especially control and combo. Even discarding a goyf and knight doesnt seem all that bad. Dont think I need to explain how good Jace, TMS is. With it, esper stoneblade can afford to go into grindy games with other control decks such as miracles or BUG control. Pure BW stoneblade will lose out in that aspect i feel. Counterspells are for added game against combo, snapcasters are just card advantage engines.

An extra colour allows us to play our engineerd explosives more effectively as well, being able to destroy permanents up to 3. Knights, cliques, liliana, etc

Plus extra colours means more splash-able sideboard cards likes cabal therapy(works very well with lingering souls), perish/darkblast.

[gypsy]

Guys, quick question: why does everyone play Esper Stoneblade and no more UW or BW? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each variant?

I find the main reason people like esper is because it is more forgiving due to having cards that I feel are training wheels like lingering souls that while they are good are completely unnecessary if you are a good player, and having access to discard and a lot of players like being more proactive with discard because it is easier than playing reactive with more counters which i find easier personally.

both decks are able to grind out other decks, i actually find its easier with UW due discard being really bad in topdeck wars whereas counterspells actually do something sometimes. explosives for 3 isnt that big a deal and you should always have an extra dual for something in the sideboard anyway to help out with explosives even if u are only on UW just in case (playing underground just for surgical etc).

but in the end to me its all personal preference, if you feel comfortable and that you think you need the discard play esper. if you are like me and like playing more reactive counterspells and more consistent mana, play UW (or with minor splashes)

[LDX]

but in the end to me its all personal preference, if you feel comfortable and that you think you need the discard play esper. if you are like me and like playing more reactive counterspells and more consistent mana, play UW (or with minor splashes)

So in no way would you play BW? I mean your arguments seem good but I'm pretty sure the guys winning tournaments are good too, I suppose they would rather play the most effective deck possible regardless of making mistakes, them being confidant enough. I mean... is that all? Preferences!? That would mean every top placers prefers Esper to UW in tournaments?

[gypsy]

So in no way would you play BW? I mean your arguments seem good but I'm pretty sure the guys winning tournaments are good too, I suppose they would rather play the most effective deck possible regardless of making mistakes, them being confidant enough. I mean... is that all? Preferences!? That would mean every top placers prefers Esper to UW in tournaments?

BW is a completely different deck and I wouldn't compare it to Esper or UW as they are trying to do different things even though a lot of the cards played are similar in each decks.

Not just preference but also a lot of players see esperblade doing well so they just copy esper blade, whereas no one really plays UW so they don't see it have high finishes and just assume its not good without actually knowing just because esper is played more than UW. Also a lot of players just go by what they see as results and dont go beyond that so they assume that if you just want to play UW that Miracle Control is the default deck and they subconsciously associate Stoneblade with Esper since it is widely more played and UW with Miracles.

I am not saying Esper is bad, just saying I prefer UW because I prefer my opponent playing into my counterspells rather than playing discard into my opponent and I don't feel like Lingering Souls is worth playing (not that it is wrong to do so, just how I felt playing the deck, obviously the card is very good and can and will win games for you).

There are no real optimal choices in deck building in general, if there was the game would be boring as everyone would have the same 75. Most choices come down to personal preference and playstyle and you should test things out and play what you feel gives you the best chance. I have played decks where players who are better than me swore by a 4 of while I played 0 copies because I didn't like the card because it didn't do enough for me when I played the deck and if I could do it over again I would make exactly the same choice because playing a deck with cards you dislike and think are bad is miserable, do not assume every choice you see in top results is correct just because they are winning, if you feel like a card does not belong then feel free to change it.

[JBlaze]

One of the advantages of playing esper is that Lingering Souls is one of the best cards in the StoneBlade mirror.

[Qweerios]

won a gpt for denver today with this list
...


Did you actualy win it? I thought we drew for first place and split the prizes. I don't really know what went down though, I don't pay much attention to these details or how tournaments are conducted in general.

As for our matches in the swiss rounds, what did you think of Deathrite Shaman?

[gypsy]

Did you actualy win it? I thought we drew for first place and split the prizes. I don't really know what went down though, I don't pay much attention to these details or how tournaments are conducted in general.

As for our matches in the swiss rounds, what did you think of Deathrite Shaman?

well i won the byes which is all i was playing for lol.

deathrite is obviously a really good card, not sure how much i like it in the deck as i dont think it fits what the deck is trying to do for the most part, though due to the card being so strong its hard to say it is wrong to play it.

[Tom T]

well i won the byes which is all i was playing for lol.

deathrite is obviously a really good card, not sure how much i like it in the deck as i dont think it fits what the deck is trying to do for the most part, though due to the card being so strong its hard to say it is wrong to play it.

The card is great, but not in this deck. Deathrite Shaman adds little value to our gameplan, which (I think) is taking control of the game and playing+protecting Jace/Batterskull.
The value Deathrite Shaman adds in this deck's strategy would be a few, most notably the mana-producing-part:
Because of DS's first ability your gameplan is sped up. The problem with this is that in order to play DS, you'll have to play a more fragile mana-base which makes you more vulnerable against Wasteland. And Wasteland slows down your gameplan.
Also, by dropping DS early game instead of discard, you take less control of the game.

Esper or UW
The reason people play Esper is (imho) because Esper really feels like the more powerful deck. Discard gives the pilot a lot of information. Really valuable information because you're playing a controldeck. With acces to bombs like Lingering Souls, Vindicate and really powerful sideboardcards players are lured towards the Esper variant.

Next to that, I believe normal UW is the more consistent of the two. The main reason I play it is because I deeply and sincerely LOVE rock-solid manabases. Next to that I don't like discard in this deck because of the late-game-mehh-'ness.

As a former Goblin player, playing both Wasteland and Rishadan Port, I noticed a lot of Legacy-players are really bad at constructing a solid mana-base for their decks. A lot of mana-bases are really greedy and contain cards that are only really useful in very rare situations . People get over the top with adding non-basic lands, to the point people only play non-basics. With some decks (like Tempo-decks) it isn't a problem and those kind of decks are usually happy when the opponent gives up tempo by using Wasteland.

So the question is; How do you play your deck? What is your playstyle? Do you play Stoneblade as a tempo-like deck, or do you play it as a control deck? And are you concious about the way you 'auto-pilot'-play your deck?

My personal answer is I see it as a control-deck. I like to put my opponent under pressure, but for me it's more important to take control of the game.
As I'm playing a control deck I want to put my lands into play and reach 4+ mana as soon as possible, so I need to be wasteland-proof and play a lot of lands. When choosing the amount of lands I often raise my chosen amount by 1. Like, when I think the deck would work great with 22 lands, 2 ponder taken into account, I end up playing 23. This was a tip I read in an article a year ago and has been making my deck more reliable ever since.
Next to that, while constructing a mana-base I didn't just had to ask myself ìf I hated Wasteland, but how much I hated the card. Some people think playing up to 5 non-basic lands (considering 22 lands total) is 'Wasteland-proof', but for me 3/23 non-basics is the limit.


Couple of notes on Lingering Souls;
The card can be seen as 'training wheels' and think it's not necessary if you reached a certain level of playskill. I think the 3 mana sorcery is a bit clunky. Others see Lingering souls as a card-advantage machine, wincondition (with or without equipment) ànd jace-protection in one single card.
Great players like Shaheen Soorani preach that Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck and you shouldn't cut it. Instead of immediately shouting he's wrong, I think we should be curious why he says this is the best card in the deck.

~Tom

[mini1337s]

Couple of notes on Lingering Souls;
The card can be seen as 'training wheels' and think it's not necessary if you reached a certain level of playskill. I think the 3 mana sorcery is a bit clunky. Others see Lingering souls as a card-advantage machine, win condition (with or without equipment) and jace-protection in one single card.
Great players like Shaheen Soorani preach that Lingering Souls is the best card in the deck and you shouldn't cut it. Instead of immediately shouting he's wrong, I think we should be curious why he says this is the best card in the deck.
The versatility of Lingering Souls is what makes it so powerful. It has the ability to hold off an opposing threat when you are on the defensive, and the ability to provide substantial pressure when you are on the offensive.
Here’s how I look at it:

Upsides:
Defensive Capabilities: Provides up to 4 blocks, with the potential to gain advantage in the process (through gangblocking, aka 2 spirits block Delver, and 2 Spirits remain).
Offensive Capabilities: Applies varied pressure with evasion. Has the ability to deal with planeswalkers quickly. In tandem with Stoneforge and Umezawa’s Jitte/Sword of X+Y, it can quickly dominate a board.
Resilient against board/spot removal: Can be played to survive Wrath effects with flashback. With equipment, it can force your opponent to use spot removal to prevent counters on Jitte or the effect of a Sword of X+Y.
Resilient against counter magic: The ability to flashback the spell gives you card advantage when countered (IE: 2 counters are required to fully counter the spell, or a counter and some sort of graveyard removal effect).
Resilient versus discard: Strong versus discard magic where you can choose what you discard (Raven’s Crime, Blightning, etc, though I realize these are not played that often).

Downsides:
Sorcery Speed: Ties up mana during your turn, making it harder to keep counter mana up.
Mana investment: “Clunky.” Can be cast on turn 3 at earliest, which is usually a time that a Stoneblade deck doesn’t want to tap out. Typically isn’t cast till later.

I’m sure that doesn’t represent all of its upsides and downsides, but they certainly are some of the most important.
As a side note, Lingering Souls is also great versus the mirror. It’s easy to lose in board position if you don’t have your own LS to “counter” your opponents. It also forces the opponent to find their own or risk losing planeswalkers/board position (with Jitte in the mix). In addition, it’s also wicked with Intuition, especially if you run Engineered Explosives/Academy Ruins, Snapcaster, etc (just in general synergy).

[BlackStarDeceiver]

1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
2 Scrubland
3 Marsh Flats
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Pierce
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Vindicate

SB
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Force of Will
3 Engineered Plague
1 Counterspell
1 Nihil Spellbomb

I tested that list today against UWr Punishing Miracles, Burn and Maverick and felt favoured in all the matches pre and postboard.
Maybe some of ou got some ideas to improve the list theoretically or by testing against some other matches. Goblins seems pretty good, maybe Hymns should be Thoughtseizes and i'd loe to fin in one more Vindicate or a Crucible of Worlds.

That list might have some problems against Bug/Canadian, though i think that could be handles quite easy.

Looking forward for feedback ^^

[xfxf]

I don't remember where I got it exactly, it came first in a tournament in Europe couple weeks back probably a tournament in France or Spain (mana infinito). Seems suited towards a BUG meta with more removal, no discard and Baleful Strix:

1x Academy Ruins
3x Baleful Strix
1x Batterskull
4x Brainstorm
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flooded Strand
4x Force of Will
2x Island
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Lingering Souls
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Spell Pierce
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Swamp
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Tundra
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland

2x Disenchant
2x Duress
2x Flusterstorm
1x Nature's Ruin
1x Perish
3x Thoughtseize
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Zealous Persecution

I've been testing it but it's 45-55 against the Dethrite Shaman decks and terrible against Combo decks (Pre board). I think Baleful Strix could be something interesting with Academy Ruins to hold the castle against Tombstalkers etc. but I couldn't make it work.

[gypsy]

I don't remember where I got it exactly, it came first in a tournament in Europe couple weeks back probably a tournament in France or Spain (mana infinito). Seems suited towards a BUG meta with more removal, no discard and Baleful Strix:

1x Academy Ruins
3x Baleful Strix
1x Batterskull
4x Brainstorm
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flooded Strand
4x Force of Will
2x Island
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3x Lingering Souls
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Scrubland
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Spell Pierce
4x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Supreme Verdict
1x Swamp
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Tundra
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x Underground Sea
3x Wasteland

2x Disenchant
2x Duress
2x Flusterstorm
1x Nature's Ruin
1x Perish
3x Thoughtseize
2x Timely Reinforcements
2x Zealous Persecution

I've been testing it but it's 45-55 against the Dethrite Shaman decks and terrible against Combo decks (Pre board). I think Baleful Strix could be something interesting with Academy Ruins to hold the castle against Tombstalkers etc. but I couldn't make it work.

that list seems really random and doesn't have a solid game plan, main reason for me to play black would be discard, don;t know why you would only sb them

[xfxf]

I think the game plan is durdle and stall the board long enough in an aggro/tempo environment for a Jace-win. At least it won something:

http://manainfinito.com/coverage/listas-top8-lcl-2012-noviembre

[ThediscoPower]

won a gpt for denver today with this list

4 stoneforge mystic
4 snapcaster mage
3 clique
1 batterskull
1 jitte
4 brainstorm
4 swords to plow
1 ponder
1 top
1 counterspell
2 spell snare
2 spell pierce
4 force of will
2 explosives
1 moorland haunt
1 karakas
1 academy ruins
1 riptide lab
1 plains
4 island
4 flooded strand
4 scalding tarn
1 arid mesa
4 tundra
1 volcanic island

sb
2 path to exile
2 timely reinforcements
1 venser, shaper savant
1 sphinxs revelation
1 tamiyo
3 red blast
1 mountain
2 flusterstorm
1 disenchant
1 sword of war and peace

no idea if tamiyo or sphinxs revelation are good, no one was playing the decks i wanted to try them out in, i think the tamiyo is good, not sure on the revelation.

rest of the deck was solid, would probably add back some graveyard hate for the gp not sure what i would cut though

Quick question. What did you hope to sideboard Tamiyo aganst? I can see the merit she can have in a matchup like Nic Fit, but do you think she can be used in other matchups too? against grindy controls matchups in general to draw a few cards, or keep a batterskull taped, for exemple?

[gypsy]

Quick question. What did you hope to sideboard Tamiyo aganst? I can see the merit she can have in a matchup like Nic Fit, but do you think she can be used in other matchups too? against grindy controls matchups in general to draw a few cards, or keep a batterskull taped, for exemple?

Tamiyo and revelation were there mostly for the bug and nic fit matchups, tamiyo mostly because they have no good answers and they usually only have 1 threat in play that you need to answer and revelation to refill when the game goes long after their initial discard. Both are good against other grindy matchups, as long as they don't have red blasts I think.

[somethingdotdotdot]

This is the list I'm currently testing out. Dropped fow for cabal therapy (because of the blue count and the life loss from bob); also added in deathrite to help with the mana and just because he's a black mana dork that can just end games by himself. I'm wondering if I should fit a vindicate or a pair of ee's in the main.

4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant

4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Lingering Souls
1 Intuition
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp

1 Academy Ruins
2 Wasteland

[Koby]

Let me know what you think and what your results are!

Tom

This list is insane. Super stable and Tamiyo was an allstar every time I played her.

[Tormod]

Guys, quick question: why does everyone play Esper Stoneblade and no more UW or BW? What are the strengths and weaknesses of each variant?

UW was once the best build, then Tempo Thresh with Delver and Show and Tell became really popular and the 4x copies of spell snare became really bad. Some players moved to esper to play inquisition and thought seize over spell snare. The combination of Snapcaster mage and hand disruption proved to be a very effective control strategy. The arrival of lingering souls gave more reasons to play esper. This flexible card provided bodies to protect Jace, evasive flyers to carry equipment, and are a win condition within themselves.

UW and BW are still very good decks with different play styles and both are viable. UW is more akido style, reactive. BW is aggressive hand disruption, creature based control strategy. I would say in an unknown meta, Esper is probably the deck to play.

[Tormod]

I've been playing deathrite shaman in blade control since the beginning of November.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21441-DTB-Blade-Control&p=684064&highlight=#post684064

The card is very good and does things for stoneblade that it didn't have before and options other playing options up. One thing I noticed is the desire to pay more heavy casting cost spells because of shaman. Turn 3 clique sounds pretty good, but more often than not the best use of shaman is that he serves as removal bait prior to mystic coming down. Its a good gamble to play a mystic after your shaman had been bolted. The 2nd best part of shaman in the deck is that he can be a turn 1 blocker for goblin lackey.

The negative part of shaman is that if you add him in over spells, the deck becomes more creature heavy, the tropical splash is too cute and does eventually become a factor. I would advocate shaman in a BW blade control as he works well in the already creature based control strategy. All in all, I will say that Shaman in not necessary for blade control, but if you choose to play shaman in an esper build, remove creatures to make room for shaman, not spells. So I recommend a creature package of 4 SFM, 2 SCM, 1 Clique, 4 DRS, if you choose to play shaman.

[learntolove6]

So, since BUG seems to be somewhat of a problem for this deck, i'm thinking of adding 1 Vindicate(for Liliana and Jace) and 1 Path to Exile (for Deathrite) in the maindeck. What does everyone think about that? I would be cutting 1 Vendilion Clique and 1 Supreme Verdict. Is Supreme Verdict good enough in that MU that I shouldn't cut it? It just seems like it's too difficult to reach 4 mana only to 1 for 1 them. In addition, I want to add 2 Diverts in the SB, for Hymn, Abrupt decay, and Ancestral Vision. Seems okay to me, but what does everyone else think?

[gypsy]

So, since BUG seems to be somewhat of a problem for this deck, i'm thinking of adding 1 Vindicate(for Liliana and Jace) and 1 Path to Exile (for Deathrite) in the maindeck. What does everyone think about that? I would be cutting 1 Vendilion Clique and 1 Supreme Verdict. Is Supreme Verdict good enough in that MU that I shouldn't cut it? It just seems like it's too difficult to reach 4 mana only to 1 for 1 them. In addition, I want to add 2 Diverts in the SB, for Hymn, Abrupt decay, and Ancestral Vision. Seems okay to me, but what does everyone else think?

would have to know your decklist to say for sure, but sounds good, i really like diverts, gonna play some in my sb. Vindicate should be a 1-of in every esper blade deck already IMO, just so versatile and you can snapcaster it. Path only thing I am skeptical on, its probably fine (I don't play Verdicts in my list anyway) just that some matchups it does nothing, just depends on the meta. Most important part of this deck is playing as few cards that do nothing in matchups as possible i think because you need to maximize the efficiency of your spells because you are grinding out decks for the most part, you don't want to make your deck weaker just to beat 1 deck because legacy is so diverse that most of the time its not worth it just for 1 matchup

[learntolove6]

would have to know your decklist to say for sure, but sounds good, i really like diverts, gonna play some in my sb. Vindicate should be a 1-of in every esper blade deck already IMO, just so versatile and you can snapcaster it. Path only thing I am skeptical on, its probably fine (I don't play Verdicts in my list anyway) just that some matchups it does nothing, just depends on the meta. Most important part of this deck is playing as few cards that do nothing in matchups as possible i think because you need to maximize the efficiency of your spells because you are grinding out decks for the most part, you don't want to make your deck weaker just to beat 1 deck because legacy is so diverse that most of the time its not worth it just for 1 matchup

you make a very good point. I definitely have some decks in my meta in which path would be dead in, but i think that slot would be verdict anyway. the other option is to make it EE, which is almost never dead. i think that's what i'll do.

you think vindicate is a good call? i wasn't running one for a long time because combo was huge, but now it's waning so perhaps it is a good time for it. i'm also thinking about intuition, but im not sure. durdly 3 drops might not be able to get there.

[Tom T]

For the UW-pilots out there, resolved Back to Basics wins games against BUG.

Next to that, batterskull, stp/engineered explosives, spell pierce and brainstorm are the important cards. Last weekend I won game 1 against BUG Control because of Tamiyo. Blocked his underground sea so he had only 1 blue source. I stp his mishra's factory which was forced to attack Tamiyo. I won that game with Tamiyo emblem and brainstorm + spell pierce in hand.

[rancOr_]

@TomT --- First of all rly like that list! ... I've been testing something similar to ur list as I like the aspect of LOTS of basics. So I agree that 4jace is optimal,as u can always hit the mana without getting disrupted. I don't like Tamiyo that much I have tested it and it was either win more or just too slow/less impact. However since we run all those basics we can afford to play some higher CMC cards, so have u tested/considered Elspeth in its spot? Comes down earlier, can't get reb"d and is very good vs BUG( and other decks offcourse). I would also like to fit in a V clique. Rest is solid. As far as the sb goes back to basics seems like an auto include(as its the main reason I'd play uw over uwx) I'm not a fan of the E. tutor so I'd rather just play like 3copies of btb. How has the humility worked out for you? I think it's a bit awkward as it weakens ur snap/sfm a lot , wouldn't u just like some paths side for the creature Mus? Also as for show and tell/combo I've always been a fan of Meddling Mage on sxt(other applications too)and a mix of flusterstorms--Grtz

[The Treefolk Master]

Hi, I'm new to the thread. I've been a die hard control player for the longest time, but I'm now trying to try something just a little bit more aggresive. I'd like to ask you about Darin Minard's list, which Top 4d a SCG Open a month ago:

Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Disrupt
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Creatures
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
2 Supreme Verdict

Basic Lands
3 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Gilded Drake
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Geist of Saint Traft

It looks really nice, a few unconventional choices look awesome, such as Venser and SoFaF. I'm not sold on Disrupt, and the 4th Mishr'a could be a Riptide Lab given the creature suite, but all in all I really like it, and seems it would fit my playstyle.

Any tips?

[kingsey]

Hi, I'm new to the thread. I've been a die hard control player for the longest time, but I'm now trying to try something just a little bit more aggresive. I'd like to ask you about Darin Minard's list, which Top 4d a SCG Open a month ago:

Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Disrupt
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Creatures
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
2 Supreme Verdict

Basic Lands
3 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Gilded Drake
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Geist of Saint Traft

It looks really nice, a few unconventional choices look awesome, such as Venser and SoFaF. I'm not sold on Disrupt, and the 4th Mishr'a could be a Riptide Lab given the creature suite, but all in all I really like it, and seems it would fit my playstyle.

Any tips?

This decklist looks interesting. Back to basic's seems very good in this meta. Possible to run terminus with SFM? or is that just not done.

[gypsy]

Hi, I'm new to the thread. I've been a die hard control player for the longest time, but I'm now trying to try something just a little bit more aggresive. I'd like to ask you about Darin Minard's list, which Top 4d a SCG Open a month ago:

Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
1 Disrupt
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares

Legendary Creatures
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
2 Supreme Verdict

Basic Lands
3 Island
1 Plains

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
1 Crucible Of Worlds
1 Gilded Drake
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
1 Spell Pierce
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Geist of Saint Traft

It looks really nice, a few unconventional choices look awesome, such as Venser and SoFaF. I'm not sold on Disrupt, and the 4th Mishr'a could be a Riptide Lab given the creature suite, but all in all I really like it, and seems it would fit my playstyle.

Any tips?

I have played a similar list in the past and playing both Mishra and Wastelands are a bad idea, I have lost countless games due to colour screw and it made me even stop playing stoneblade for a while. Finally i realized why I was losing with them and ended up cutting both from my deck (as have most current stoneblade lists and i would highly suggest you do so as well) and now only play 3 colourless lands and have been super happy with my manabase

[kingsey]

gypsy what does your list look like?

I'm totally new to this archtype

[gypsy]

gypsy what does your list look like?

I'm totally new to this archtype

4 stone forge
4 snapcaster
3 clique
1 jitte
1 batterskull
3 jace tms
4 force of will
2 spell pierce
2 spell snare
1 counter spell
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 senseis top
4 swords to plowshares
2 engineered explosives
4 flooded strand
4 scalding tarn
1 arid Mesa
1 plains
4 island
4 tundra
1 volcanic
1 academy ruins
1 Karakas
1 moorland haunt
1 riptide lab

Sb
1 tamiyo
2 venser shaper savant
3 red blast
1 mountain
2 path to exile
1 timely reinforcements
1 fluster storm
1 sword or war and peace
1 disenchant
2 graveyard hate not sure yet what to play

It's mostly a standard list nothing super special but I have been really happy with it, sb can always change but the md is pretty locked in for me (except 1 force of will which I usually put in the sb but haven't found a card I like in the main over it right now) but other than that I wouldn't change anything from my list

[sadakiyo]

Whats your general strategy against 12posts. This MU seems horrible to me.

[Vandalize]

Whats your general strategy against 12posts. This MU seems horrible to me.

Wasteland and Wasteland. Counter Candelabra of Tawnos and Sensei's Divining Top also does some good. Countering Crop Rotation is also good since they lose a land.

But yes, that matchup is hard for control decks.

[Koby]

But yes, that matchup is hard for control decks.

That's exactly what the deck is designed to punish. Tread carefully and form a quick game-plan. Use Wasteland aggressively, but wisely vs Crop Rotation.

[gypsy]

Whats your general strategy against 12posts. This MU seems horrible to me.

My plan is to assume that no one plays that deck bc it is expensive and not that good so just ignore the matchup because anyone who chooses to play that deck is probably not that that good in the first place

But getting stone forge into play ASAP and countering acceleration so they can't just cast big spell after big spell is the best way to go about beating them

[ThediscoPower]

My plan is to assume that no one plays that deck bc it is expensive and not that good so just ignore the matchup because anyone who chooses to play that deck is probably not that that good in the first place

But getting stone forge into play ASAP and countering acceleration so they can't just cast big spell after big spell is the best way to go about beating them

And then, everytime I go to Face, I gotta be paired up against it lol. But yeah, that is still the best way to go about it, IMO, especially when i don't feel like putting wastelands in my list. And hope they don't get to play one million cloudpost.

[gypsy]

And then, everytime I go to Face, I gotta be paired up against it lol. But yeah, that is still the best way to go about it, IMO, especially when i don't feel like putting wastelands in my list. And hope they don't get to play one million cloudpost.

ya that can always happen if you have small local metagames and one person plays it, but usually i try to ignore decks that are 1% of the metagame lol. I have only played that deck twice and beaten it both times tho, i don't think its that bad of a matchup as long as they don't get super nut draws and you draw badly

[sadakiyo]

Wasteland and Wasteland. Counter Candelabra of Tawnos and Sensei's Divining Top also does some good. Countering Crop Rotation is also good since they lose a land.

But yes, that matchup is hard for control decks.

Sigh, I dont put wastelands on my 75 at all. And yea, there is only one dude in my meta that play 12posts. I guess I will just ignore it. Does Back to basic helps in this MU? I know B2B would hurt esper too, but we can fetch more basics and still be fine, right?

[mini1337s]

Sigh, I dont put wastelands on my 75 at all. And yea, there is only one dude in my meta that play 12posts. I guess I will just ignore it. Does Back to basic helps in this MU? I know B2B would hurt esper too, but we can fetch more basics and still be fine, right?
I think you just take it as a shitty matchup, because without dramatic changes, you won't be able to deal with their lands.
I would highly suggest that you run Humility in the side though. Blanks all of their creatures, along with being good versus Merfolk, Goblins, SnT, etc. Just counter their Repeals, and you should be good.

[CorpT]

Anyone have a good plan against Storm? I played it for awhile last night (playing Shaheen's list) and it was not as good as I had hoped. It wasn't horrible, but not ideal either. Especially not with people talking Storm up lately.

[learntolove6]

I think you just take it as a shitty matchup, because without dramatic changes, you won't be able to deal with their lands.
I would highly suggest that you run Humility in the side though. Blanks all of their creatures, along with being good versus Merfolk, Goblins, SnT, etc. Just counter their Repeals, and you should be good.

it doesn't blank ulamog though, because ulamog vindicates when cast.

[mini1337s]

it doesn't blank ulamog though, because ulamog vindicates when cast.
Good point. Well, we can always hope to dodge :)
In all seriousness, I think you have to try to keep a Humility on board while dodging Repeals/Ulamog. I don't think this deck can ever really play the Wasteland game without some dramatic changes, and even then, I don't think it is worth it to get a leg up on the Turbo Eldrazi matchups.

[mike1987]

How does this deck play against nic fit? I got my ass handed to Nic fit via explorer therapy, hymn to tourach. Their late game threats are just so much more dangerous than ours, not to say abrupt decay is just too good.

[useL]

How does this deck play against nic fit? I got my ass handed to Nic fit via explorer therapy, hymn to tourach. Their late game threats are just so much more dangerous than ours, not to say abrupt decay is just too good.

4 Divert in the board from now on. Also, resolved Jace or Elspeth is quite good.

[matunos]

4 Divert in the board from now on. Also, resolved Jace or Elspeth is quite good.

How good can Divert be against a Veteran Explorer deck whose purpose is to ramp up to Standard-esque fatties?

[DragoFireheart]

Anyone have a good plan against Storm? I played it for awhile last night (playing Shaheen's list) and it was not as good as I had hoped. It wasn't horrible, but not ideal either. Especially not with people talking Storm up lately.

http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9696&iddeck=70784

Between the counters, Clique and discard, I'm not sure why you would have trouble against Storm. Where you just not getting enough disruption against him, or were you just losing because you weren't killing him fast enough?

[useL]

How good can Divert be against a Veteran Explorer deck whose purpose is to ramp up to Standard-esque fatties?

My answer was more directed to the Abrupt Decay problem. I played against BUG-decks for 7 hours yesterday and Divert was very nice against those decks.

[Dzra]

How does this deck play against nic fit? I got my ass handed to Nic fit via explorer therapy, hymn to tourach. Their late game threats are just so much more dangerous than ours, not to say abrupt decay is just too good.

They'll have a hard time dealing with Batterskull, but don't walk into a Therapy without being able to protect your equipment. Lingering Souls should be able to provide a lot of bodies for blocks or equipment. Swords to Plowshare their Explorers to stop their ramp and they'll become a Standard deck. They can't answer Jace.

[bruizar]

They will fetch up. Arbor and attack with explorer and witnesss. Gsz on thrun or a haste beater is there to beat jace. Thry also run maelstrom pulse. Also, you cant plow if they play explorer amd sack it to phyrexian tower becauseu wont get priority, same goes for flashback therapy.

Best way to beat nicfit is to Resolve rest in peace or leyline of the void (for esper variants,lotv is immune to decay) so that eternal witness, flashback therspy and veteran explorer are shut down. Now, all you have to do is save your spot removal for their threats and fateseal. Counter green sun zenith. Dont let sigarda or thrun into play bevause it will kill u.

Edit:
'how to beat nicfit' reslly depends on the type of nicfit deck since there are:

Scapewish
Rectorbased
Gifts based
Intuition based
Random others

Scapewish is potentially the hardest version to beat because it can just cast scapeshift and kill you out of the blue and has acces to artifact hate for batterskull/sword/jitte. Burningwish for pulverize if you are tapped out with batterskull. Rector, intuition and gifts all rely on the gy.

Humility also fixes thr matchup pretty well. Obv care for deed

[ThediscoPower]

4 stone forge
4 snapcaster
3 clique
1 jitte
1 batterskull
3 jace tms
4 force of will
2 spell pierce
2 spell snare
1 counter spell
4 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 senseis top
4 swords to plowshares
2 engineered explosives
4 flooded strand
4 scalding tarn
1 arid Mesa
1 plains
4 island
4 tundra
1 volcanic
1 academy ruins
1 Karakas
1 moorland haunt
1 riptide lab

Sb
1 tamiyo
2 venser shaper savant
3 red blast
1 mountain
2 path to exile
1 timely reinforcements
1 fluster storm
1 sword or war and peace
1 disenchant
2 graveyard hate not sure yet what to play

It's mostly a standard list nothing super special but I have been really happy with it, sb can always change but the md is pretty locked in for me (except 1 force of will which I usually put in the sb but haven't found a card I like in the main over it right now) but other than that I wouldn't change anything from my list

Another quick question about your list. Did you chose what graveyard removal you will run in your side (if any at all?).

[learntolove6]

If BUG is big right now, why don't we play Ancestral Vision? It's a little slow, but so is that MU. it enables us to 'gas up' mid game and can pitch to force.

[jrw1985]

Esper Stoneblade has now won 2 of the past 4 Legacy GPs and has Top-8ed the other two. 3 of those lists were nearly identical, the fouth being extremely similar.

Can we now start calling Esperblade The Deck To Beat in the format?

And given that Esper is having the most success, shouldn't Esper Stoneblade have its own Source Thread instead of being mixed in with Blade Control varieties? Over the past year the deck has proven itself to be a powerful archetype worthy of distinction.

[sdematt]

Just because a deck wins 2 Legacy GP's doesn't make it THE best deck in the format. I'd say it's ONE of the best in the format, but the player skill has a lot to do with it. Vidi was masterful in the matchups, and Tom won because Souls wasn't a card in Legacy at that point. However, it's a VERY good deck. VERY good.

-Matt

[JBlaze]

Just because a deck wins 2 Legacy GP's doesn't make it THE best deck in the format. I'd say it's ONE of the best in the format, but the player skill has a lot to do with it. Vidi was masterful in the matchups, and Tom won because Souls wasn't a card in Legacy at that point. However, it's a VERY good deck. VERY good.

-Matt

Pretty much exactly what Matt said. Stoneblade masters take down GP's average Stoneblade players get rolled. Esper should have it's own thread though.

[Koby]

Esper Blade has enough difference from stock UW to warrant a new variant. If someone puts together a primer for it I have no doubt it would get popular. My own reservation is that the list has effectively not evolved since late Spring. Is there any significant changes that could be discussed in detail? For evidence, Vidi's list from the GP is only 3 cards different from his SCG Las Vegas list circa July 2012.

[jrw1985]

Just because a deck wins 2 Legacy GP's doesn't make it THE best deck in the format. I'd say it's ONE of the best in the format, but the player skill has a lot to do with it. Vidi was masterful in the matchups, and Tom won because Souls wasn't a card in Legacy at that point. However, it's a VERY good deck. VERY good.

-Matt


Pretty much exactly what Matt said. Stoneblade masters take down GP's average Stoneblade players get rolled. Esper should have it's own thread though.


You guys are silly.

Just because the Patriots win the Superbowl doesn't make them THE best team in the NFL.


Esper Blade has enough difference from stock UW to warrant a new variant. If someone puts together a primer for it I have no doubt it would get popular. My own reservation is that the list has effectively not evolved since late Spring. Is there any significant changes that could be discussed in detail? For evidence, Vidi's list from the GP is only 3 cards different from his SCG Las Vegas list circa July 2012.

The fact that all the lists are so similar blows my mind. And it supports my conviction that Esperblade is the best deck right now. If there are no "improvements" to make, it must be the best deck.

[Koby]

The fact that all the lists are so similar blows my mind. And it supports my conviction that Esperblade is the best deck right now. If there are no "improvements" to make, it must be the best deck.

Belcher hasnt changed significantly since ever.
TES hasnt changed much either.

Neither are close to being "the Best deck". Stoneblade is powerful and rewards high skilled pilots. Thats the only conclusion I can draw from its performance over the last few GPs. I cannot say with certainty that Esper is the best deck in a complex format like Legacy. There are too many permutations to consider before that conclusion can be drawn.

[jrw1985]

Belcher hasnt changed significantly since ever.
TES hasnt changed much either.

Neither are close to being "the Best deck". Stoneblade is powerful and rewards high skilled pilots. Thats the only conclusion I can draw from its performance over the last few GPs. I cannot say with certainty that Esper is the best deck in a complex format like Legacy. There are too many permutations to consider before that conclusion can be drawn.

Belcher and TES haven't won 50% 0f the GPs in the last year.

Thresh/Mav/UW Control have been as consistent in GP Top-8's over the past year, but Esperblade has been doing the winning.

[sdematt]

This isn't like football where you play every other team. This isn't a round-robin tournament. I'm sure Vidi played a variety of archetypes, but winning tournaments is also about luck in matchup pairings as well as play skill. Esperblade is a very solid deck choice in today's meta, but it's not 70% favoured in virtually EVERY matchup. That would be the "best" deck. Flash was the BEST deck at a certain time. Esperblade is not THE best, but Tier 1 with lots of game.

-Matt

[JimmyC27]

Has anybody tried Liliana of the Veil coming out of the Esper Blade sideboard? If so, how have your results with it been?

I thought it might be good against combo and control decks. I've only gotten to play with Liliana a bit in the mirror so far. It seemed to be a card the other play had to answer in some way, but it didn't feel over the top. Liliana mostly just seemed annoying for the other guy. I'm up in the air on it.

[Water_Wizard]

Has anybody tried Liliana of the Veil coming out of the Esper Blade sideboard? If so, how have your results with it been?

I thought it might be good against combo and control decks. I've only gotten to play with Liliana a bit in the mirror so far. It seemed to be a card the other play had to answer in some way, but it didn't feel over the top. Liliana mostly just seemed annoying for the other guy. I'm up in the air on it.

Jimmy,
Good match last night! I highly considered Liliana, either in the main or the sideboard. The only problem with it is that it does not combine well with counter magic and removal - we want to hold answers in our hand, with does not play well with Liliana's +1 ability. However, once Liliana hit the board, it was difficult for me to handle and shut down Stoneforge Mystic very well (I couldn't cast SFM and equipment in the same turn, so I would have to discard one).
I wonder if Geist of Saint Traft isn't better vs. the mirror. I really like the combination of Liliana and Jace. However, I've only seen it used successfully in a BUG shell. What are your thoughts? What is your list?

I could see using Liliana vs. the following match-ups, with the following problems:
Combo - caps their hand size, but forces us to discard counterspells
Mirror - caps hand size, effectively turns the game into a top-deck war (unless Jace is present), but gives the player with Liliana the ability to -2 or -6.
Creature-based decks - can lock down the game after a sweeper, but may be too little, too late and forces us to discard spot removal. There is always the possibility that the other player has 0 cards in hand and that the +1 really hurts us, although it does improve sweepers by forcing players to either play cards or discard them.

[JimmyC27]

Hey Wizard!

Good game to you as well. I noticed that about Liliana too--I didn't like having to discard my good stuff. I think at one point I discarded a Sword of Feast and Famine just to tick up Liliana. But with your Jace on the board and brainstorming, I felt like that was my best option of removing Jace. I actually felt like Stoneforge was the bigger asset in that match, but did notice Liliana played a part in making it safe for Stoneforge Mystic.

My list:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize

3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell

3 Jace, tms
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard:
3 Dark Confidant
2 Liliana of the Veil (Thinking maybe this becomes a 3rd Vendilion Clique and possibly one other card)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will


Ideally in the mirror, I would go -3 Force of Will, -1 Swords, +3 Dark Confidant, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine

[rancOr_]

Yes - Liliana is not very good in this deck for obvious reasons. However playing like 3 Geists in the SB helps alot vs both Stoneforge AND Bug. Im playing 3 side atm and its mvp every time.

[Vandalize]

Yes - Liliana is not very good in this deck for obvious reasons. However playing like 3 Geists in the SB helps alot vs both Stoneforge AND Bug. Im playing 3 side atm and its mvp every time.

Agreed. Geist of the Saint Traft is TEH shit now. Hexproof beats Legacy, and he's a hell of a clock in a slow deck like Stoneblade. He can be protected via Karakas and just wins if he can carry Sword of Feast and Famine.

I've been tweaking this deck a little, because now I see every black deck packing 2~3 Engineered Plagues on sideboards, making Lingering Souls not that stellar.

This is my latest list:

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of the Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Force of Will

Shaved one Snapcaster Mage, due to infinite Deathrite Shaman decks, and cut Counterspell for another Spell Snare just to fit Mishra's Factory, which is a house. Sideboard pretty much covers everything. I'd say this deck worst matchup is Maverick, but that deck is dying slowly, so it's not a big problem.

[Water_Wizard]

Hey Wizard!

Good game to you as well. I noticed that about Liliana too--I didn't like having to discard my good stuff. I think at one point I discarded a Sword of Feast and Famine just to tick up Liliana. But with your Jace on the board and brainstorming, I felt like that was my best option of removing Jace. I actually felt like Stoneforge was the bigger asset in that match, but did notice Liliana played a part in making it safe for Stoneforge Mystic.

My list:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize

3 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell

3 Jace, tms
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull

4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate
1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard:
3 Dark Confidant
2 Liliana of the Veil (Thinking maybe this becomes a 3rd Vendilion Clique and possibly one other card)
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Path to Exile
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Flusterstorm
1 Force of Will


Ideally in the mirror, I would go -3 Force of Will, -1 Swords, +3 Dark Confidant, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine

There was a time where I drew Stoneforge and I could have cast it and pulled an equipment into my hand, but I didn't have enough mana to cast it, so the equipment would have just gone to the bin with Liliana's +1.

In your ideal sideboarding vs. the mirror, you don't list Liliana, yet you brought them in in our match-up. I think anytime there are two control/slower mid-range decks facing off, Planeswalkers do very well.

I notice no maindeck sweepers in your list? Why? Is it a meta decision? Do you mainly play on MTGO? Why no Lingering Souls?


Agreed. Geist of the Saint Traft is TEH shit now. Hexproof beats Legacy, and he's a hell of a clock in a slow deck like Stoneblade. He can be protected via Karakas and just wins if he can carry Sword of Feast and Famine.

I've been tweaking this deck a little, because now I see every black deck packing 2~3 Engineered Plagues on sideboards, making Lingering Souls not that stellar.

This is my latest list:

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of the Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Force of Will

Shaved one Snapcaster Mage, due to infinite Deathrite Shaman decks, and cut Counterspell for another Spell Snare just to fit Mishra's Factory, which is a house. Sideboard pretty much covers everything. I'd say this deck worst matchup is Maverick, but that deck is dying slowly, so it's not a big problem.

I understand no maindeck sweepers because you are running Geist. However, why no love for Lingering Souls?

[ThediscoPower]

Agreed. Geist of the Saint Traft is TEH shit now. Hexproof beats Legacy, and he's a hell of a clock in a slow deck like Stoneblade. He can be protected via Karakas and just wins if he can carry Sword of Feast and Famine.

I've been tweaking this deck a little, because now I see every black deck packing 2~3 Engineered Plagues on sideboards, making Lingering Souls not that stellar.

This is my latest list:

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of the Saint Traft
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Engineered Explosives

SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Supreme Verdict
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Detention Sphere
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 Force of Will

Shaved one Snapcaster Mage, due to infinite Deathrite Shaman decks, and cut Counterspell for another Spell Snare just to fit Mishra's Factory, which is a house. Sideboard pretty much covers everything. I'd say this deck worst matchup is Maverick, but that deck is dying slowly, so it's not a big problem.

I actually can't make my mind on the 2 mishras , because I am hesitating on either playing 2 mishras or 2 wastelands in these spots. I feel like both configuration have served me in the past, but ultimately I just can't make up my mind on what fits better. Right now, I am leaning towards mishra, simply because I feel like it's a much better draw later in the game and that it can't be targeted by decay, among other reasons.

how do you guys feel about this? where are your preference going, if you play 2 wastes or 2 mishras in your lists?

[Koby]

I actually can't make my mind on the 2 mishras , because I am hesitating on either playing 2 mishras or 2 wastelands in these spots. I feel like both configuration have served me in the past, but ultimately I just can't make up my mind on what fits better. Right now, I am leaning towards mishra, simply because I feel like it's a much better draw later in the game and that it can't be targeted by decay, among other reasons.

how do you guys feel about this? where are your preference going, if you play 2 wastes or 2 mishras in your lists?

I played with Wastelands at the GP, and they would have been better served as Factory's at that tournament. With DRS everywhere, it's hard to take good advantage of the mana denial. There are very few lands that give this deck trouble too, such as Maze of Ith and Creeping Tar-pit. Neither of these two lands are seeing much play however.

[Water_Wizard]

I actually can't make my mind on the 2 mishras , because I am hesitating on either playing 2 mishras or 2 wastelands in these spots. I feel like both configuration have served me in the past, but ultimately I just can't make up my mind on what fits better. Right now, I am leaning towards mishra, simply because I feel like it's a much better draw later in the game and that it can't be targeted by decay, among other reasons.

how do you guys feel about this? where are your preference going, if you play 2 wastes or 2 mishras in your lists?

I feel like Waste is so much stronger in the current meta. The only big advantage of man-lands is evading sweepers and this deck already does pretty well against Miracles.

EDIT: Just read Koby's post. I still think Waste is stronger because it punishes loose keeps against decks like BUG and RUG. Mishra's trades with a threshed Mongoose? The red splash might be better than both, though.

[preddi]

*edit deleted

Regarding the wasteland/Mishra's dicussion: I'm currently working on the same question. I really like both cards. Wasteland is usually a bad card in this deck, but it offers free wins and handles problematic lands (since maverick's "downfall" I think this is less relevant now). Mishra is excellent in most other cases.

This needs some testing I guess. Back in the days of Mental Misstep Mishra's were a core part of this deck, but this was substituted with a splash for black.

[JimmyC27]

@Wizard:

RE: Lingering Souls

Souls was helping me win against aggro and control, but seemed bad against combo. I don't play Souls because I kept finding Souls in my hand when I was losing to combo, so I moved it to the sideboard to make more room for Spell Pierce and Spell Snare in the main deck. Siding into Dark Confidant just seemed sweet, and incredibly potent in the control games. Dark Confidant also seems good against the attrition based decks that are popping up (Jund, BUG). The deck has access to a lot of removal (Swords, Path, EE, Vindicate, Supreme Verdict, Perish), so I think creature matches are still winnable without Souls. I also shifted my main deck to more early game prevention (5 discard, 2 spell pierce, 2 spell snare) This is a recent development that I wanted to test... and also because I love playing Bobs. :)

RE: Board sweepers

I run a maindeck Engineered Explosives, which can act like a sweeper. I was running a main deck Supreme Verdict, but it was only a 1x so you couldn't really rely on seeing it. I moved it to the sideboard to make room for more early game prevention, because I felt like Spell Snare or Spell Pierce can help prevent being overrun but also improve a wide variety of match ups. I also went up to the 4th Snapcaster and 2nd Vendilion Clique--giving me more dudes to flashback Swords with and to carry a Jitte.

RE: Meta call

I play on modo throughout the week, and at a local store about once a week. At the local store I regularly see Elves, Goblins, UW Control, Reanimator, Enchantress, MUD, Burn, Blue Zoo, BG Explorer, Maverick...

[Water_Wizard]

Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Your meta has substantially more creature-based decks than mine. Bob is some good. May give it a try, but wary of cards like Batterskull and FOW without SDT.

[rxavage]

Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Your meta has substantially more creature-based decks than mine. Bob is some good. May give it a try, but wary of cards like Batterskull and FOW without SDT.

I run a singleton SDT and am testing out Bob as well. I may add another Top and try out a 2 top/3 Bob split.

[JimmyC27]

Thanks for the info. Makes sense. Your meta has substantially more creature-based decks than mine. Bob is some good. May give it a try, but wary of cards like Batterskull and FOW without SDT.

I usually go -3 FOW, +3 Dark Confidant, because FOW tends to be bad against control decks. This leaves 3 Jace and 1 Batterskull I can flip -- but you usually pull Batterskull from the deck with one of four SFM's. The only match up I've left both FOW and Dark Confidant in for was Storm (ANT) combo.

Let me know if you get around to trying him. :)

[rxavage]

I usually go -3 FOW, +3 Dark Confidant, because FOW tends to be bad against control decks. This leaves 3 Jace and 1 Batterskull I can flip -- but you usually pull Batterskull from the deck with one of four SFM's. The only match up I've left both FOW and Dark Confidant in for was Storm (ANT) combo.

Let me know if you get around to trying him. :)


I like this strategy a lot. I'll try this out as well and see which works out better.

[preddi]

So I played my blade list at my local today. I have played two Jund lists and lost to both. I think this matchup is not very good for us.
I'm looking for ways to improve the matchup, any suggestions?

[ThediscoPower]

So I played my blade list at my local today. I have played two Jund lists and lost to both. I think this matchup is not very good for us.
I'm looking for ways to improve the matchup, any suggestions?

What are you playing? Because I have been a playing u/w version, and I this is my experience so far against Jund. In a nutshell, Cards like jace and elspeth are very good in this matchup, because of the net card/board advantage they both net you. Then, small thing like never playing stoneforge unless you can brainstorm, or unless you can slam the equipment right away is something too, so you can't have it hit by a discard spell (they will often not play their discard baring hymn early in order to get you with your pants down after playing a stoneforge). Also, jund tends to play a lot from the top of their decks, so shutting down sylvan library and Bob ASAP is very important, and even more so in their case , as literally every card in jund nets them a 2 for 1. Also, if you can play spell snare, that card is very good against them, in general, as the scariest things IMO cost two in there (bob, library, hymn and tarmogoylf to a certain extend). Also, after looking at JRichardson's list, I tried out moorland hunt, and it happened to be really good in this matchup (protect jace, trump liliana -2, smash people with jittes). Out of the sideboard, I go for a removal suite, in verdict, path, perish (the only black card in the deck), and now testing geist of saint Traft (can't be decayed, bolted, and seems to go well with the "i break your board and hit you for a lot plan").

Finally, if you can't control the early torrent until they end up hellbent, your chances will be VERY low (especially in game 1). letting bob live even 1 activation is usually a major disadvantage (remember, all their cards are 2 for 1s), and library is just disastrous. Also, play arround wasteland as much as possible, and sensei's top is also very good against mass discard.

Aside from that, graveyard hate should not be bad against them (I think), and lingering souls should also be very good, until they play engineered plague.

[StoneColdEffy]

How do you guys feel about Geist in the SB for Esper? What MU is it good for? As far as I can see, it seems good in mirror but that's about it. I don't like it against BUG due to Goyfs and Liliana/

[xfxf]

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.
I feel like with Lingering Souls and Snapcasters doubling as StP or Perish I should have enough tools to durdle Jund at an equal footing. I haven't been able to test it yet as I just can't find the time to attend any events but have played a few double fisted games myself and so far it looks (yes just looks) like boarding in 5 pieces of removal (including Strixes) should be enough to pull the matchup towards 50%. Btw boarding out -3 FoW, -2 Clique.

Also, I'm confused about the Geist from sideboard as well. What matchups do people bring those in?

[klaus]

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.


Strix is not a SB card whatsoever. If you're looking for additional removal you should probably look into something more dedicated.
Imo Strix and Souls battle for the same MD slots, with Strix having gained an edge in that battle due to Shaman's running rampant these days.

[mike1987]

@preddi
I'm considering to add to Baleful Strixes to my sideboard and board them in in the place of Cliques. So after board my removal suit becomes: 4 StP, 2 Explosives, 2 Verdict, 1 Perish, 2 Strix.
I feel like with Lingering Souls and Snapcasters doubling as StP or Perish I should have enough tools to durdle Jund at an equal footing. I haven't been able to test it yet as I just can't find the time to attend any events but have played a few double fisted games myself and so far it looks (yes just looks) like boarding in 5 pieces of removal (including Strixes) should be enough to pull the matchup towards 50%. Btw boarding out -3 FoW, -2 Clique.

Also, I'm confused about the Geist from sideboard as well. What matchups do people bring those in?

Geist can be sideboarded in for mirror matches or miracles i feel. It might even be good in those BG/BUG midrange decks. It basically renders decay obsolete. With sword of feast and famine equipped, it's even better.

[xfxf]

Strix is not a SB card whatsoever. If you're looking for additional removal you should probably look into something more dedicated.
Imo Strix and Souls battle for the same MD slots, with Strix having gained an edge in that battle due to Shaman's running rampant these days.

Not necessarily, Lingering Souls is still terrific CA and better if you don't run it into Shaman's removal. I opted for Strixes instead of other removal like Path to Exile because it is removal you don't have to keep in your hand (dodge topdecked Hymn) and provides card advantage as opposed to other removal options. What's your strategy against Jund?

Edit: Also considering the Goblins matchup where you could use removal+CA in one packege.

[klaus]

Not necessarily, Lingering Souls is still terrific CA and better if you don't run it into Shaman's removal. I opted for Strixes instead of other removal like Path to Exile because it is removal you don't have to keep in your hand (dodge topdecked Hymn) and provides card advantage as opposed to other removal options. What's your strategy against Jund?

I think you missed my point. Due to the exact reason you mentioned: Strix = Swiss knife (cantrips, equipment carrying body, removal). You don't add Ponder to your SB either.
As for my approach - I'll post a list later.

[xfxf]

I don't think it is similar to boarding in Ponder. I think it is more like boarding in Geist and going all aggroey, instead you are boarding in Strixes and going more durdly and defensive.

[apistat_commander]

I recently put together Esper and went 4-0 at my first tournament (definitely luck and good draws). After doing some testing I have a couple of specific questions about the Esper I was hoping to get feedback on:

- The mana in Esper has felt terrible yet most of the lists I see are running 22 lands and only 4 basics. Are people basically just conceding that they will lose to double Waste in order to reap the benefits of utility lands in non-Wasteland matchups?

- If winning the control mirror is all about resolving Jace, why is no one running a 4th JTMS in the board? Is it simply not flexible enough as it doesn't really come in against other archetypes? If you aren't running JTMS in the SB for control MUs, what are you bringing in (Geist, Clique)?

[Malakai]

Sideboarding cards for the Esperblade mirror seems like a waste of sideboard space to me. The deck isn't prevalent enough in top8s, and usually matches in the swiss barely get to game 2.

[useL]

Does anyone know how to get in contact with Vidi? I want his sideboarding plans badly, trying to become skilled with his list and need a bit of help. Maybe someone else is competent of explaining what goes in and out? If you do know how to contact him, drop me a PM with his info.

[sdematt]

His username is Vidi here on the Source. It could be .Vidi, but I'm sure you'll find it.

-Matt

[mini1337s]

I notice a lot of players running a singleton Supreme Verdict in the main. Not super-sold on this, particularly in lists without Intuition. Has anyone been finding it worth the slot?

[xfxf]

I think it transitioned from the 2 Engineered Explosives from Ben Friedman's list a few months back for most players, one of them was replaced with Supreme Verdict.

[Final Fortune]

Esper Blade has enough difference from stock UW to warrant a new variant. If someone puts together a primer for it I have no doubt it would get popular. My own reservation is that the list has effectively not evolved since late Spring. Is there any significant changes that could be discussed in detail? For evidence, Vidi's list from the GP is only 3 cards different from his SCG Las Vegas list circa July 2012.

I think the deck has to ask itself whether or not it wants to play DRS and a Tropical Island at some point.

[ThediscoPower]

I notice a lot of players running a singleton Supreme Verdict in the main. Not super-sold on this, particularly in lists without Intuition. Has anyone been finding it worth the slot?

Nah I cut it after a while too. It was way too random, most of the time. I prefer having two in side that I bring in when needed.

[mini1337s]

Nah I cut it after a while too. It was way too random, most of the time. I prefer having two in side that I bring in when needed.
That's exactly where I'm at.
It's easier to wrap my head around it as a pitchable Engineered Explosives replacement, but I find the only thing I can't deal with that EE can't are planewalkers. I can see an argument for Show and Tell, but I don't think it's reliable enough to matter.

Still on 4x Force of Will in the main, but they are sided out most game 2s (aside from combo, which is heavy at times in Halifax).

LOVE Humility in the sideboard. I'll blank random 15/15s all day, and out CA fair decks with Lingering Souls. I often bring in 2x Humility, 2x Supreme Verdict, 1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant versus fair creature decks (siding out FoW and Vendilion Clique), and have had amazing results.

[JimmyC27]

I recently put together Esper and went 4-0 at my first tournament (definitely luck and good draws). After doing some testing I have a couple of specific questions about the Esper I was hoping to get feedback on:

- The mana in Esper has felt terrible yet most of the lists I see are running 22 lands and only 4 basics. Are people basically just conceding that they will lose to double Waste in order to reap the benefits of utility lands in non-Wasteland matchups?

- If winning the control mirror is all about resolving Jace, why is no one running a 4th JTMS in the board? Is it simply not flexible enough as it doesn't really come in against other archetypes? If you aren't running JTMS in the SB for control MUs, what are you bringing in (Geist, Clique)?

Question 1:

I run 22 lands, with all of them being color producing lands. The land base feels pretty decent to me. I almost always mulligan 1 land hands with this deck though. Here's my land base, if it'll help you:

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas

Question 2:

For the mirror, I usually side out all my Force of Will plus some number of Swords to Plowshares. I generally bring in Dark Confidants, Vendilion Cliques, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Surgical Extractions. You don't necessarily need all 4 Jaces in the mirror because there are a lot of ways to keep your opponent's Jace off the board (Countermagic, Lingering Souls, EOT Flash creatures, etc.). Having that 4th Jace makes the deck a little clunkier--especially when it could be something else, like a Thoughtseize, that'd nab important cards from their hand or set up a clear path to play your own Jace.

[apistat_commander]

Question 1:

I just have had quite a few games where I open a hand with 1 fetch and 2-3 duals where getting Wasted once or twice keeps me off my curve for a really long time. I am almost always fetching basics, so maybe it is just variance. I have been on the fence about running the 5th basic over an Academy Ruins, but I am sorely tempted by the possibility of buying back my equipment and/or EE. It also gives people a target for Wasteland that isn't colored mana so it acts to protect my mana. But more basics is never really a bad thing.


For the mirror, I usually side out all my Force of Will plus some number of Swords to Plowshares. I generally bring in Dark Confidants, Vendilion Cliques, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Surgical Extractions. You don't necessarily need all 4 Jaces in the mirror because there are a lot of ways to keep your opponent's Jace off the board (Countermagic, Lingering Souls, EOT Flash creatures, etc.). Having that 4th Jace makes the deck a little clunkier--especially when it could be something else, like a Thoughtseize, that'd nab important cards from their hand or set up a clear path to play your own Jace.

When I said "control mirror" I think that I meant Jace mirror more than Esper mirror, but it seems to be that there are simply better cards for filling that role against control decks. I am curious about everyone boarding out their Forces against other blue decks. That makes sense against BUG, where you are just grinding out cards, and to some extent in the Blade mirror because you can match threats so well. However I would think that you would want all of your countermagic against Miracles as a resolved Countertop lock is pretty good against us.

I had another basic question about sideboarding, are people generally bringing in their discard in grindier MUs against other midrange and control decks (you obviously bring it in against combo)? If you know the game is going to go long, adding discard seems to be a less flexible choice than additional equipment, Cliques, EEs, etc.

Also, against other Blade decks, do you take out your swords? I have been cutting Swords on the assumption that I just don't have many good targets post-board and leaving in Forces because they catch Jace or Stoneforge equally well.

[Malakai]

With UW I would generally leave in about three Swords to Plowshares to protect against getting tempo'd out of the game when they're able to resolve an early stoneforge and I'm not. I found that guarding against this auto-loss scenario helped me to win a lot more games than the occasionally meh draws caused me to lose--even here, where stp does not shine, it can usually buy you an extra turn during most points in the game.

[matunos]

Question 1:
For the mirror, I usually side out all my Force of Will plus some number of Swords to Plowshares. I generally bring in Dark Confidants, Vendilion Cliques, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Surgical Extractions. You don't necessarily need all 4 Jaces in the mirror because there are a lot of ways to keep your opponent's Jace off the board (Countermagic, Lingering Souls, EOT Flash creatures, etc.). Having that 4th Jace makes the deck a little clunkier--especially when it could be something else, like a Thoughtseize, that'd nab important cards from their hand or set up a clear path to play your own Jace.

I would add Jace Beleren ("Little Jace") before a 4th Jace. You can get him down a turn earlier, UW control often is not applying direct pressure, meaning they can't cast Big Jace before dealing with Little Jace, giving you more time to find your Big Jace (e.g. draw down Little Jace and keep him at 1 until you get a Big Jace, zero him out and then cast the big guy).

You can't be as proactive like this against BUG because they have Abrupt Decay and creatures to pressure your Beleren. It's probably more useful as JTMS removal in that matchup.

But more discard is also a decent option in this situation, and is relevant against combo as well.

[apistat_commander]

Went 3-0-1 at my locals last night. Played against:

Esper Blade (2-0) - Game one I win the Jace war, G2 he mulls to oblivion.
Reanimator (1-1-1) - Game one a Sphinx tears me apart, game 2 he can't resolve anything through counters, and game 3 drags on and he can't get me before turns.
Esper Blade (2-1) - Game one I mull to four and die to a Stoneforge I can't answer, Game 2 I resolve a Jace and beat him to death with a Stoneforge. Game 3 he keeps a weak hand and scoops after whiffing on lands off his Brainstorm.
Omniscience (2-1) - Game one he resolves SnT -> Omniscience and I scoop after he shows me the Burning Wish. Game 2 I have the Karakas for his shown in Emrakul and beat him to death with an equipped Clique. Game 3 he mulls to four and is never really in it.

I played a maindeck very similar to this one (http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=9951&iddeck=72541) (also check out that hot Shred Memory tech in the side, probably too cute but interesting nonetheless). Basically I dropped the maindeck discard in favor of of more robust counter package (4 FoW, 2 Pierce, 2 Snare, 1 Counterspell) and a decent removal package (4 Swords, 1 EE, 1 Vindicate, 1 Verdict). Both Pierce and Snare did some work throughout the night, but the 3rd Pierce out of the board was often dead. I think that I would like to find space for a pair of Flusterstorms in the board because they are live so much longer than Pierce when you need the extra counters.

What are people's thoughts about dropping discard for counters? Discard is really helpful for finding the optimal line given your opponent's hand but I wasn't as happy with it against some of the midrange decks with redundant threats. It may have just been my matchups but I ended up boarding in my discard every round anyway. I like the flexibility of counters and I feel like they are live topdecks for a longer time than discard. They also let you sit back and tap out less and play a more reactive game.

[Malakai]

The information the discard gives you is the reason that UWB has been consistently outperforming UW. I don't have enough seas so I've been jamming UW with friggin' Gitaxian Probe (it's been awesome).


Anybody jammed Ancestral Visions in Esper? Most likely in place of the third Snapcaster, the Clique(s), and whatever one-ofs you like least.

[apistat_commander]

The information the discard gives you is the reason that UWB has been consistently outperforming UW. I don't have enough seas so I've been jamming UW with friggin' Gitaxian Probe (it's been awesome).


Anybody jammed Ancestral Visions in Esper? Most likely in place of the third Snapcaster, the Clique(s), and whatever one-ofs you like lest.

Here is how I see the breakdown of the two:

Discard:

Pros
- Perfect information is really useful for control decks.
- Seize grab your action -> SCM, Seize, grab your action can just win games on its own.
- Even if you don't grab something critical, you will almost always grab something.

Cons
- Forces you to fetch more non-basics because a basic Swamp might as well be colorless in many situations.
- Doesn't do much against redundant threats.
- Pretty dead in the late game and games tend to go long with this deck.

Counters:

Pros
- Stops random bullshit from beating you. Even though Force is card disadvantage, the power of hard countering stuff for free is not to be underestimated.
- Allows you to play a more reactive game, letting the opponent make mistakes.
- Force and Snare stay live into the lategame (hardcasting Force is not that uncommon with the deck).
- Protects your stuff against top decked answers.

Cons
- Not having perfect information means you might use your counters incorrectly/in the wrong order.
- Can be the wrong answer for the problem, Pierce against Confidant or Snare against an opposing Jace.
- Pierce can just be a total do nothing in the late game.

Edit: This might also be an issue of local meta vs. big tournaments. Counters are better when you know what your opponents are playing whereas discard becomes stronger when that perfect information is more necessary.

[ryscott85]

The information the discard gives you is the reason that UWB has been consistently outperforming UW. I don't have enough seas so I've been jamming UW with friggin' Gitaxian Probe (it's been awesome).


Anybody jammed Ancestral Visions in Esper? Most likely in place of the third Snapcaster, the Clique(s), and whatever one-ofs you like least.

*** The main reason I don't like the discard version as much as the pure U/W build, (or U/W/R with 1-2 volcanic and fetches for REB) is due to the fact that discard only grabs what your opponent happens to have in their hand at that moment you decide to cast it, (if they didn't just hide it/them with brainstorm); it seems as if you basically have to pray that they have the card you want to take. If they draw that crucial spell after you play your discard and pluck somthing else they may not have needed, it's not as valuable as the counter that you could have had in your had to use on the critical card they just cast. Just a few thoughts.. It's late and i'm tired. I'm by no means a top pro, but i'll throw my U/W list up soon with reasons for selections if anyone wants to test it out. Thanks!

[Gros]

Hi everybody, i'm going to play an UW version of this deck at a local tournament in italy (around 60 players) the meta will be something like Bug, Jund, Canadian Thresh, some sort of S&T, some
Maverick and some storm combo... i considered playing this version:

23 lands:
4 wasteland
2 volcanic island
3 tundra
1 glacial fortress
1 karakas
4 flooded strand
1 arid mesa
3 misty rainforest
3 island
1 plains

creatures 11
4 stoneforge mysotc
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
2of/split of (Venser, shaper savant, Geist of saint traft, maybe Resto angel) does anybody have any tests results with any of these?

spells

4 brainstorm
4 stp
2 engineered explosives
2 spell snare
2of/ split of counterspell/ mana leak
3/4 of Force of will
2 spell pierce
2 sensei's divining top
2/3 jace, tms
0/1 elspeth, knight errant
0/1 supreme verdict
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine

SB:
2 disenchant
1 supreme verdict
3 red elemental blast/pyroblast
1 umezawa's jitte
2 path to exile
1 pyroclasm
2 surgical extraction
2 RiP/ Relic of progenitus
1 flusterstorm

i tried little Jace and i found it overwhelming in most situations, elspeth is great vs any king of B/G/x IMHO the real problems of this deck are 2:Lily and punishing fire, i choose to play 4x wasteland maindeck because of the second and the fact that manbases now in the format are becoming fragiles, explosives are there beacuse they can save our a** vs. lily, and it punishes especially Bug delver and Canadian for the low curve of their creatures, spell snare is an answer for confidants, toutach, opposing mystics, is a little underwhelming vs. S&T, i don't think anyway that Venser woulb too necessary having the red splash for SB, but maybe i am wrong, don't know if could be better a version with 4 md planeswalkers but i guess that will put our curve too high, top is useful in a meta rich with discard for floating stronger cards on top protecting them from discard effects, mana leak could be an option because of the 4x wasteland in the manabase.

Does anybody could give me an opinion about this (sketchy) decklist?
is Geist of St. Traft effective vs Jund/Bug?

[Tom T]

Hi everybody, i'm going to play an UW version of this deck at a local tournament in italy (around 60 players) the meta will be something like Bug, Jund, Canadian Thresh, some sort of S&T, some
Maverick and some storm combo... i considered playing this version:

23 lands:
4 wasteland
2 volcanic island
3 tundra
1 glacial fortress
1 karakas
4 flooded strand
1 arid mesa
3 misty rainforest
3 island
1 plains

creatures 11
4 stoneforge mysotc
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique
2of/split of (Venser, shaper savant, Geist of saint traft, maybe Resto angel) does anybody have any tests results with any of these?

spells

4 brainstorm
4 stp
2 engineered explosives
2 spell snare
2of/ split of counterspell/ mana leak
3/4 of Force of will
2 spell pierce
2 sensei's divining top
2/3 jace, tms
0/1 elspeth, knight errant
0/1 supreme verdict
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine

SB:
2 disenchant
1 supreme verdict
3 red elemental blast/pyroblast
1 umezawa's jitte
2 path to exile
1 pyroclasm
2 surgical extraction
2 RiP/ Relic of progenitus
1 flusterstorm

i tried little Jace and i found it overwhelming in most situations, elspeth is great vs any king of B/G/x IMHO the real problems of this deck are 2:Lily and punishing fire, i choose to play 4x wasteland maindeck because of the second and the fact that manbases now in the format are becoming fragiles, explosives are there beacuse they can save our a** vs. lily, and it punishes especially Bug delver and Canadian for the low curve of their creatures, spell snare is an answer for confidants, toutach, opposing mystics, is a little underwhelming vs. S&T, i don't think anyway that Venser woulb too necessary having the red splash for SB, but maybe i am wrong, don't know if could be better a version with 4 md planeswalkers but i guess that will put our curve too high, top is useful in a meta rich with discard for floating stronger cards on top protecting them from discard effects, mana leak could be an option because of the 4x wasteland in the manabase.

Does anybody could give me an opinion about this (sketchy) decklist?
is Geist of St. Traft effective vs Jund/Bug?

Last weekend me and my friend both hit top 4 with UW Blade (30-people tourney though). We were both rocking Blood Moon in the Sb in such a meta you described (however, there aren't that much SnT decks in our meta. But we run 4 Spell Pierce and SnT is our best matchup next to TES/AnT).
Resolved Blood Moon against BUG, RUG, Jund, Esper and other decks (Valakut Nic Fit, other 3 color decks, 12-post, MUD) is usually good game.
Watch out for red decks playing Sulfuric Vortex post-SB though.

If you're afraid of Punishing Fire play more RiPs in your board. Those also help a lot against tempo RUG/BUG.
Geist is bad against Jund and BUG (only if they play liliana).
Liliana is a pain in the butt, but maxing out on spell pierces and a resolved elspeth, knight-errant is great against it.

[Gros]

Last weekend me and my friend both hit top 4 with UW Blade (30-people tourney though). We were both rocking Blood Moon in the Sb in such a meta you described (however, there aren't that much SnT decks in our meta. But we run 4 Spell Pierce and SnT is our best matchup next to TES/AnT).
Resolved Blood Moon against BUG, RUG, Jund, Esper and other decks (Valakut Nic Fit, other 3 color decks, 12-post, MUD) is usually good game.
Watch out for red decks playing Sulfuric Vortex post-SB though.

If you're afraid of Punishing Fire play more RiPs in your board. Those also help a lot against tempo RUG/BUG.
Geist is bad against Jund and BUG (only if they play liliana).
Liliana is a pain in the butt, but maxing out on spell pierces and a resolved elspeth, knight-errant is great against it.

Nice idea, can you post your list for reference? An idea that i want to verify is that restorarion angel in this deck might be awesome in something like 1 or 2 of, it has flash, can act as removal blocking, protect.mystic from decay (will see if useful), every creature we blink has a CiP effect, it can threaten planeswalkers, is resistant to bolt and decays, with sword is a 4 turn clock... It seems like it screams VALUE everhtime it moves :-) in case of sideboarding in 3x.RiP in your hopinion must i side out all 3x snappy?

[ThediscoPower]

*** The main reason I don't like the discard version as much as the pure U/W build, (or U/W/R with 1-2 volcanic and fetches for REB) is due to the fact that discard only grabs what your opponent happens to have in their hand at that moment you decide to cast it, (if they didn't just hide it/them with brainstorm); it seems as if you basically have to pray that they have the card you want to take. If they draw that crucial spell after you play your discard and pluck somthing else they may not have needed, it's not as valuable as the counter that you could have had in your had to use on the critical card they just cast. Just a few thoughts.. It's late and i'm tired. I'm by no means a top pro, but i'll throw my U/W list up soon with reasons for selections if anyone wants to test it out. Thanks!

That's what I came to believe too, concerning discard. I think that if you play well enough, you don't actually need to lean on discard, and you can focus on the actual permission battle on what you don't want to see. Actually I am interested in looking at your list as a reference. So far, this is what I have been having success with :

23 lands:
1 wasteland //still an open spot. not been bad, but hasn't bee amazing either
1 underground sea //powers the engineered explosives, and the perish in sideboard. gets fetched when I need it, or when I want it to eat a wasteland
4 tundra
1 glacial fortress
2 karakas
4 flooded strand
1 academy ruins
1 moorland hunt //actually has been impressive for me so far.
4 polluted delta
3 island
1 plains

creatures 12
4 stoneforge mysotc
4 snapcaster mage
3 vendilion clique
1 venser

spells

4 brainstorm
4 stp
1 engineered explosives
2 spell snare
1 counterspell
4 Force of will
2 spell pierce
1 sensei's divining top
3 jace, tms
1 elspeth, knight errant
1 batterskull
1 jitte

SB:
1 disenchant
2 supreme verdict
1 perish
3 meddling mage
1 sword of war and peace
1 path to exile
1 spell pierce
2 surgical extraction
2 geist of saint traft
1 flusterstorm

feel free to comment

[learntolove6]

Just split Top 4 of Jupiter Games Duel for Duals with Esper for one of each of the blue duals. This deck is insane. If you're gonna cut black, don't.

My decklist: http://jupitergames.info/articles/2013/52711/decklists-january-2013-nelc

I am Rich.

[learntolove6]

Just split Top 4 of Jupiter Games Duel for Duals with Esper for one of each of the blue duals. This deck is insane. If you're gonna cut black, don't.

My decklist: http://jupitergames.info/articles/2013/52711/decklists-january-2013-nelc

I am Rich.

also, i was playing 11 sword of feast and famines, as it says on that site.

[zerzab11]

Congratulations, list looks very solid. Digging the 11 Sword of Feast and Famine ;)

Did you miss Geist of Saint Traft in the board? Do you board out Snappys when you bring in RiP? Or how has RiP been performing for you, as I lean more towards GY without CDA/need of boarding out Snappy, as Relic of Progenitus...

[learntolove6]

Congratulations, list looks very solid. Digging the 11 Sword of Feast and Famine ;)

Did you miss Geist of Saint Traft in the board? Do you board out Snappys when you bring in RiP? Or how has RiP been performing for you, as I lean more towards GY without CDA/need of boarding out Snappy, as Relic of Progenitus...


Thanks man. I didn't miss it at all. The only thing in my board I would change is the Divert, which was awful all day.

And RIP has been pretty good. I don't side out snapcaster mage, the reason being the decks i bring it in against are hosed more than i am. it hurts a bit against BUG, but consider this: deathrite will stop my snapcaster mage or souls from getting full value anyway, and making deathrite and goyf useless outwayed the detriment to my deck. I could be wrong, as I haven't had the chance to fully test it, but in my feature match my BUG opponent valued it very highly and ripped it out of my hand, so that's something.

[Tom T]

Nice idea, can you post your list for reference? An idea that i want to verify is that restorarion angel in this deck might be awesome in something like 1 or 2 of, it has flash, can act as removal blocking, protect.mystic from decay (will see if useful), every creature we blink has a CiP effect, it can threaten planeswalkers, is resistant to bolt and decays, with sword is a 4 turn clock... It seems like it screams VALUE everhtime it moves :-) in case of sideboarding in 3x.RiP in your hopinion must i side out all 3x snappy?

No, snapcaster mage is at least huge as a 2/1 flash guy against 1/1 mongeese. FoW's get boarded out most of the time.

Our list for reference:

Mainboard:
Creatures (7):
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

Planewalkers (5):
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Artifacts/Enchantments (3):
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Instant/Sorceries (22):
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict

Land (23):
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
7 Island
3 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
1 Seal of Cleansing / Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
4 Flex slots

I'm excited about Restoration Angel, so we will test that out. I think the more instants or flash cards you play, the better.

[ryscott85]

For anyone interested, if I were to play in an open field tournament tomorrow like a GP, it would be this list . This is the best list i've put together after a ton of testing:

Mainboard:
Creatures (7):
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Planewalkers (3):
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts/Enchantments (5):
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull

Instant/Sorceries (23):
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus

Land (22):
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Fortress

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Counterbalance
1 Force of Will
1 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Disenchant/Oblivion Ring
1 Umezawa's Jitte

It has good game against the whole field due to the creature removal, counterspells, and the counterbalance sideboard plan. Sensei's, Ponder, Fetches, and Brainstorms allow for greater card filtering. This deck also has a really stable mana base, which is the main reason i began testing this version. Esper just rolled over to Rug with wasteland and stifle in testing.Test it out and let me know what you think!

[preddi]

Hi,

I got 1st place on saturday with 3-0-1 and an unlucky 3rd place on sunday going 4-1 (1st and 2nd also went 4-1) with the following list:

4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare
3 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain

2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Oblivion Ring

Saturday matchups:
Reanimator 2-0
Belcher 2-0
UW Stoneforge/Thopter/Balance 2-1
Merfolk ID (Played for 1st Pick 2-0)

Sunday:
Reanimator 2-0
Jund 0-2
RUG 2-0
Dredge 2-0
TheGate 2-0

I was torn between a stock esperlist and this gem, but I decided to try it out. The reasons for this were that I hoped to beat all the BUG, Jund and Tempo Matchups with Ancestral Visions (delaying with Bolts, Plows and Snares). Well it didn't work against Jund, but against the rest of the field. I think the card is well placed in the current slow and grindy meta, but the mvp's were actually Lightning Bolt and Spell Snare. Geist underperformed a little.

I'm still looking for a good way to beat Jund, Although I lost both games, I think I was very unlucky. Game 1 I resolved 2! Visions while a 3 Goyf 2 Wasteland hand was beating me up. I handled two goyfs with Bolt and Swords early, but by the time I reached 4 mana I had very low live with a Geist in play to buy me a crucial turn to resolve Batterskull, but he topdecked Liliana. Second Game we both traded some cards and went to topdecking mode. I had two Brainstorms still in my hand but found 5 Lands with them. My Jund record is 0-6 in tornament play right now. I considered playing Punishing Fire, but I really dislike that card. Maybe Esperblade is better for this matchup, but I think the matchup is still bad.

Well I'm still satisfied with this performance, won a Wasteland and an Entreat and most important, I had fun playing with my bolts again.

[Gros]

No, snapcaster mage is at least huge as a 2/1 flash guy against 1/1 mongeese. FoW's get boarded out most of the time.

Our list for reference:

Mainboard:
Creatures (7):
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster Mage

Planewalkers (5):
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Artifacts/Enchantments (3):
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Instant/Sorceries (22):
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Spell Pierce
3 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict

Land (23):
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Tundra
7 Island
3 Plains
1 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Humility
1 Disenchant
1 Seal of Cleansing / Disenchant
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Blood Moon
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
4 Flex slots

I'm excited about Restoration Angel, so we will test that out. I think the more instants or flash cards you play, the better.

Ok thanks, i've got some questions about your decklist:
1 why do you run Tamiyo? It' for a specific matchup?
2 why play ponder over SDT? It's simply for blue count?
3 which is the minimum number of basics for playing blood moon in sb in your hopinion?
4 why not Vendilion clique ?

I post my actual resto-blade decklist for reference:

Creatures 11
2 restoration angel
4 stoneforge mystic
3 snapcaster mage
2 vendilion clique

Spells 27
4 brainstorm
2 top
4 stp
1 supreme verdict
1 detention sphere
1 engineered explosives
3FoW
2 spell snare
3 spell pierce
1 counterspell
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine
3 jace tms

Lands 22
4 flooded strand
3 misty rainforest
1 arid mesa
3 tundra
1 glacial fortress
2 volcanic island
1 academy ruins
4 island
2 plains
1 karakas

Sb
1 elspeth
2 pyroblast
1 red elemental blast
1 engineered explosives
1 path to exile
2 pyroclasm
2 rest in peace
1 enlightened tutor
1 blood moon
1 umezawa's jitte
1 disenchant
1 force of will

[ThediscoPower]

Something else I wanted to know. Has anyone tested with crucible of words recently? If yes, any reaction towards the card so far? I really want to try that card, but it seems subpar in a meta filled with deathrites. However, it could also just win games right away in some matchups. I might be overestimating the card tho.

Aside from that, I will be trying out the red splash this week, as I am becoming more and more interested with it. I also like pyroclasm as the sideboard addition, along with REB (probably a 2-of, most likely a 3-of).

In conclusion, I do not know what TomT's is on this, but having tried Tamiyo a bit after I saw it inculded in a few list on this thread, I really feel like that card was win more. I may be alone in thinking this, but it really felt like every time I pulled it out, it could have been literally anything else. I had it in there for decks like nic fit (matchup in which elspeth did the same job for one less mana) and matchups like bug (where elspeth still did a better job). locking down lands was cute and all, but it also ended up happening when I could actually get her to stick, aka when it did not matter.

Also, I don't feel like cards like blood moon are what you want to be playing in a UW stoneblade list. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that it a bad card, or anything, however, what I will say is that i believe that one of the uw's version biggest selling point is in fact the possibility to play utility lands, and the small edges you can gain out of them. With that in mind, I do not think that sacrificing these possibilities in order to play a "i win in a easier way" card is the right thing to do, not when the decks you are bringing this card in are in facts decks you already win against by getting those small edges over them in the course of the game. Feel free to comment on this point, I could be totally wrong too.

[mini1337s]

Something else I wanted to know. Has anyone tested with crucible of words recently? If yes, any reaction towards the card so far? I really want to try that card, but it seems subpar in a meta filled with deathrites. However, it could also just win games right away in some matchups. I might be overestimating the card tho.
Tested, hated it. Simply too slow, and I'd rather keep mana up most times I have the ability to cast it. 23 lands rarely stutters for me, I typically have no issue getting up to 4 lands, which is my sweet spot. We can't afford to run more than 1 or 2 Wastelands anyways. Deathrite is a huge pain in actually doing anything useful with it anyways.

[ThediscoPower]

Tested, hated it. Simply too slow, and I'd rather keep mana up most times I have the ability to cast it. 23 lands rarely stutters for me, I typically have no issue getting up to 4 lands, which is my sweet spot. We can't afford to run more than 1 or 2 Wastelands anyways. Deathrite is a huge pain in actually doing anything useful with it anyways.

That makes sense. It could either be really good, or really bad, the way I saw it. Better not add something clunky in the 75 for no reason then.

[sdematt]

Let's put it this way: I don't have issues playing against 43 Lands anymore now that I'm running 4 Deathrite Shaman :P

I thought about having a value Crucible in this deck, but so far, not as good as I'd hoped.

-Matt

[Tom T]

Ok thanks, i've got some questions about your decklist:
1 why do you run Tamiyo? It' for a specific matchup?
2 why play ponder over SDT? It's simply for blue count?
3 which is the minimum number of basics for playing blood moon in sb in your hopinion?
4 why not Vendilion clique ?


2. SDT eats time and Ponder is better by a mile in the early game. Need a type of card now? -> Ponder. Though SDT is huge late-game. Ponder has nice benefits of being blue and having synergy with SCM and Brainstorm.
3. When you play Blood Moon you should be able to cast your other spells after it resolves. If you have a lot of UU or WW you might want to consider playing more basics. Or you could sandbag the Blood Moon until you have the basics you need.
4. Vendilion Clique is super versatile, but only shines in certain situations. I've heard people have a love/hate relationship with the card, and I have the same thing. I was sold on the card until my friend asked me to just play one tournament without it. Now my opinion is the card is 'awesome filler'.


Situation:
My opponent and I are both topdecking. He has a threat in play. This threat could be either a planeswalker, creature (with or without evasion) or utility land (like volraths stronghold, and a graveyard with a creature).

I'm looking for a card that, on its own, neutralizes this threat and is a threat by itself in this situation.
1. Tamiyo fills this role at the moment.

Does anyone know a card that would fill this role the best, or just trump the situation in my favor?

[Malakai]

My local meta is infested with (mono white) Death and Taxes fielded by some of the best area players. Does anybody have any card suggestions for powerful sideboard options against this strategy?

[ajr]

My local meta is infested with (mono white) Death and Taxes fielded by some of the best area players. Does anybody have any card suggestions for powerful sideboard options against this strategy?

Dread of Night shuts off most of the deck - after that, you generally just need to handle Stoneforge and Serra Avenger.

[Malakai]

Dread of Night shuts off most of the deck - after that, you generally just need to handle Stoneforge and Serra Avenger.

Holy #$&@

[ThediscoPower]

Situation:
My opponent and I are both topdecking. He has a threat in play. This threat could be either a planeswalker, creature (with or without evasion) or utility land (like volraths stronghold, and a graveyard with a creature).

I'm looking for a card that, on its own, neutralizes this threat and is a threat by itself in this situation.
1. Tamiyo fills this role at the moment.

Does anyone know a card that would fill this role the best, or just trump the situation in my favor?

Doesn't elspeth do that job too, to some extend? Hell, why not play entreat the angels when your at it and just have a bigger threat then they could ever hope to have? I mean, is it really that important to have a card that will bail you out of every possible situation when you could work in order to not get in said situation, where you need a all around joker card, because you have no other card that can get the job done?

Also, I had a few questions for you in my last post. Could I have your insight on those?

[Malakai]

Here's the UW deck I played yesterday, going 4-0 against competent players [Reanimator, OmniTell, this deck (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52093), and BGr Rock].

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
4 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind-Sculptor
1 Detention Sphere
4 Ancestral Vision
22 lands (3 Wasteland, 1 Volcanic, lots of basics, no Karakas)

I really liked this. Not having Elspeth meant that I never needed to hit WW, make my manabase a lot stronger. The Ancestral Visions were really good, and those that were drawn late I was able to effectively Brainstorm/Jacestorm/FoW them away. The idea was to basically play as many efficient 1-for-1 cards as possible, using AV to get ahead, and it worked like a charm. This configuration was designed to beat the other blue decks, and it did so quite well.

Spell Snare seems to be at the height of its power once again. Even the decks against which it used to be dead are now running targets: OmniTell has Burning Wish, a number of RUG players are adding Izzet Charm, every other blue deck has Snapcaster, etc.

The Counterspells were good as well, and I think two (2) is the right number.

On another note, the sideboard of any deck with white should now start with 3x Rest in Peace. The card is insane, and is especially insane right now. The RUG players I've used it against have described it as "super nuts insane."

[mike1987]

A noob qn. Do you guys usually slam down SFM on turn 2 and hope that opponent doesnt have a kill spell for it or it's better to be more patient to cast it during turn 3 or 4 when you have more options available to you? Perhaps a discard spell before casting or a brainstorm to shuffle batterskull in case SFM gets plowed or decayed.

[nodahero]

That question is really meta dependent.

Do you expect your opponent to have discard?
Do you have force back up?
Can you afford to wait a turn?

[Arsenal]

If I'm assuming the aggro role, then I'm dropping SFM on turn 2 and forcing my opponent to answer it immediately. If I'm the control deck, I may be more reactive and hold off a turn or two while dealing with my aggro opponent's early threats; once he's out of gas, a turn 3-5 SFM with backup can just win on the spot.

[sdematt]

If I'm assuming the aggro role, then I'm dropping SFM on turn 2 and forcing my opponent to answer it immediately. If I'm the control deck, I may be more reactive and hold off a turn or two while dealing with my aggro opponent's early threats; once he's out of gas, a turn 3-5 SFM with backup can just win on the spot.

This.

-Matt

[JimmyC27]

Anybody running Pithing Needle in the sideboard right now?

[Ateon]

Hi guys,

I'm new on the forum. I've a question for you about Burn MU.

Last Tournament (51 people) i found some difficulty against Burn. Too many dual and fetch, thoughtseize isn't a nice card. Do you think counters and discard spell working well against lightning bolt, lava spike, chain lightning, rift bolt, price of progress, fireblast,ecc...?

I play the Vidianto list so:

3 force of will
2 spell pierce
1 counterspell
2 thoughtseize
2 inquisition of kozilek

is necessary to set the sideboard against burn decks?

[matunos]

Hi guys,

I'm new on the forum. I've a question for you about Burn MU.

Last Tournament (51 people) i found some difficulty against Burn. Too many dual and fetch, thoughtseize isn't a nice card. Do you think counters and discard spell working well against lightning bolt, lava spike, chain lightning, rift bolt, price of progress, fireblast,ecc...?

I play the Vidianto list so:

3 force of will
2 spell pierce
1 counterspell
2 thoughtseize
2 inquisition of kozilek

is necessary to set the sideboard against burn decks?

Discard is okay, but not Thoughtseize.

Unless burn is prevalent in your meta, it's not typically something you worry about too much. Jitte or Batterskull can usually get there (watch out for Smash to Smithereens or Shattering Spree though). But if its enough of a problem for you, other cards that hurt them include:


Warmth
Circle of Protection: Red
Aegis of Honor


At a 51 person tournament, though, I'd probably try to get by with just the equipment, because there's better uses for those sideboard slots.

Don't forget to sideboard in something that can get rid of a Sulfuric Vortex (and Detention Sphere won't cut it).

[kingsey]

Anyone making full use of giest of st traft ?

He's been great for me.

[AEnesidem]

Anyone making full use of giest of st traft ?

He's been great for me.

i usually play him in the side against UW control decks, or when i have to play the agressive roll. I don't like it maindeck cause it just dies to almost any blocker.

[Qweerios]

Here's the UW deck I played yesterday, going 4-0 against competent players [Reanimator, OmniTell, this deck (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=52093), and BGr Rock].

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
4 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Jace, the Mind-Sculptor
1 Detention Sphere
4 Ancestral Vision
22 lands (3 Wasteland, 1 Volcanic, lots of basics, no Karakas)

I really liked this. Not having Elspeth meant that I never needed to hit WW, make my manabase a lot stronger. The Ancestral Visions were really good, and those that were drawn late I was able to effectively Brainstorm/Jacestorm/FoW them away. The idea was to basically play as many efficient 1-for-1 cards as possible, using AV to get ahead, and it worked like a charm. This configuration was designed to beat the other blue decks, and it did so quite well.

Spell Snare seems to be at the height of its power once again. Even the decks against which it used to be dead are now running targets: OmniTell has Burning Wish, a number of RUG players are adding Izzet Charm, every other blue deck has Snapcaster, etc.

The Counterspells were good as well, and I think two (2) is the right number.

On another note, the sideboard of any deck with white should now start with 3x Rest in Peace. The card is insane, and is especially insane right now. The RUG players I've used it against have described it as "super nuts insane."

I tried a UW version with 4 AV today and went 4-0 as well. I had to get through RUG Tempo (2-0), Dredge (2-0), Sneak Show (2-1), and BUG Tempo (2-0). The list I used is very similar to yours:


Creatures (11)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Vendilion Clique

Instant/Sorcery (22)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

4 Ancestral Vision
2 Supreme Verdict

Other (5)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (22)
1 Karakas
1 Riptide Laboratory
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Divert
1 Disenchant
2 Path to Exile
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant


The second Supreme Verdict maindeck was meant as a Detention Sphere.

[xfxf]

How did the AVs work out for you in general? Do you think omission of black and inclusion of AV have improved any of your matchups?

With Esper I find that the deck have all the tools it could need for a particular situation but not enough ways to dig for those answers and create real card advantage as opposed to the nominal card advantage from Snapcaster, Lingering Souls etc. So I would be interested in giving the UW version a try.

[Malakai]

Esper is basically strictly better. You have more information, and information leads to wins. I don't really see a reason why you can't run AV in esper.

As far as being on the UW plan, for whatever reason, I have really liked the AVs so far.

[useL]

So I've been playing the esper-variant to small success lately and I find myself sitting at the 1-2 table playing against one of the guys at my local weekly. He goes on and on pre-game about how poor the Esper-deck is and that the only reason it places well in tournaments is because a lot of high skilled players have that deck as their main preferred choice. I listen to the chatter and shuffle my deck and tell him that it probably is mostly my fault as pilot and not the deck itself that is responsible for the results.

He resolves a blood moon game 1 into my four nonbasics and a swamp and I have four tokens out and a jitte. He continues to slam down a jace and has a batterskull in hand. I swing for the fences with my tokens and for 7 turns I kill 3 jaces and his batterskull with tokens 3 times. He draws nothing and even though he has a top the first game ends in my favour with 6 blue cards in hand and 7 mountains on my side of the board. He tilts and whines and we move on to the next game.

He resolves an Thopter Foundry and Sword of the Meek, I disenchant his foundry and extracts it with surgical. He resolves an Elspeth and starts making dudes. The board is clogged up and I see no solution to his Elspeth and it has 7 loyalty counters with me just having a few tokens out. BAM - cue topdeck Vindicate and I say "Now see, this is the reason why you play Esper" and fries his Elspeth and turn the game around from there.

Just a fun story from a regular tuesday loosing streak. Over and out.

[Malakai]

Just a fun story from a regular tuesday loosing streak. Over and out.

It will always baffle me how gamers cannot spell "lose".

[useL]

It will always baffle me how gamers cannot spell "lose".

Yes, because that is how I spend my time on the MTG-forums. Spell checking all the words before I post so that I might not offend you.

[thra1l]

This is the Esper Stonblade list I've been playing with lately, and likely playing at SCG Cincinnati. I'll just give a little rundown on some of the cards, especially the one-ofs.


// Lands 23
1 Academy Ruins
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland

// Creatures 8
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic

// Instants 14
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
1 Intuition
1 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares

// Sorceries 9
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
1 Supreme Verdict

// Artifacts 3
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte

// Planeswalkers 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard:
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Force of Will
SB: 1 Hydroblast
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Inquisition of Kozilek
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Perish
SB: 3 Geist of Saint Traft


I have been extremely happy with it as of late. I've tested against Junk, Jund, most BUG variants, RUG Delver, and some other Tier decks (though I should probably play more against combo).
First and foremost, the pair of Wastelands have been all-stars for me, as it allows another angle of attack. Usually games 2 and 3, my opponent tries to play around Wastelands by fetching for basics, which can make for a pseudo-mind-trick / mana screw. I know of at least a couple games where they've fetched for basics, and a timely Vindicate puts them so far back that they can't catch up. On that note, the one-of Vindicate has been great. I know some people have been opting out of having it, but I couldn't imagine leaving home without it.
I definitely think 3 Lingering Souls / 1 Intuition is the right way to go, even in a Meta full of Deathrite Shamans. Intuition is especially great after sideboard; being able to grab 3 Surgical Extraction is amazing.
The miser Spell Pierce and Counterspell are really good, and again play more "mind-tricks" on your opponent, so they never really feel safe tapping out when I have U or UU open for Pierce and CS, respectively.
Supreme Verdict has pulled its weight for sure, especially against RUG, BUG, Jund, etc. (and if nothing else it gives me a blue card to pitch to Force).
As much as I'd like to fit the 4th Force in the MB, I wouldn't know what to cut, and I'm overall satisfied with it in the SB.
I used to play 1-2 Vendilion Clique (along with 3 Snapcasters), but I finally decided to cut it and I haven't looked back. It allows me to cut the Karakas as well. I might put them back in if Show and Tell decks become a little more popular, but I am still not overly satisfied with having a non-tutorable, Wastelandable Plains in my deck. The fourth Snapcaster has been much better so far.

For the Sideboard:
Most stuff is pretty basic. The Hydroblast I usually bring in against Jund, Goblins, Storm (usually if it's running Burning Wish). Disenchant has been good, with Sylvan Library being my favorite target to hit with it. The Geists have been good, though I'm still not sure what matchups exactly to bring them in against. Just any deck that plays StP? They're good against Miracles, the mirror-match, and most control matchups, but other than that I'm not real sure when to bring them in. Regarding the Sideboard, I would really like to play another Perish, but I wouldn't know what to cut.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback you guys have, negative or positive. I was running Dark Confidants, but a few FoW and Jace flips, and I realized that they needed to go.

Thanks!
--
Jacob

[dunk]

Not a big fan of Wasteland in this deck here. While the deck can operate well with few lands, it can operate even better with more. Randomly screwing someone doesn' sound like it will work often, with only 2 Wastelands. Having an answer to manlands and Maze of Ith is nice though, but I wouldn't expect many Mazes in the next weeks. It's just too few Wastelands to cripple someone and the deck is not fast enough to take advantage of it.

Intuition might be too cute, but it also might be pretty good in all these grind mirrors that you will have to play.

Hydroblast in the sideboard sounds terrible. Definately exchange it with a card that does something, maybe Spell Pierce. Or the 2nd Perish that you want to play.

Geist is awesome. Whenever you feel like "counterspells and discard will probably suck, I need strong topdecks" board it in. Also board it in against any combo deck. Best clock you can get and FOW fodder is always welcome.

[thra1l]

Not a big fan of Wasteland in this deck here. While the deck can operate well with few lands, it can operate even better with more. Randomly screwing someone doesn' sound like it will work often, with only 2 Wastelands. Having an answer to manlands and Maze of Ith is nice though, but I wouldn't expect many Mazes in the next weeks. It's just too few Wastelands to cripple someone and the deck is not fast enough to take advantage of it.

Intuition might be too cute, but it also might be pretty good in all these grind mirrors that you will have to play.

Hydroblast in the sideboard sounds terrible. Definately exchange it with a card that does something, maybe Spell Pierce. Or the 2nd Perish that you want to play.

Geist is awesome. Whenever you feel like "counterspells and discard will probably suck, I need strong topdecks" board it in. Also board it in against any combo deck. Best clock you can get and FOW fodder is always welcome.

Well the Wastelands are obviously not mainly for trying to mana screw somebody. Being able to take out problem lands is just so good, along with the possibility of randomly screwing them. I was actually running 1 Dust Bowl before, but the Wastelands have been so much better, so for now I'll be keeping them in. I'll be testing more, however.

The Intuition is great. I'd definitely recommend testing it to see what you think for yourself.

I can see taking out the Hydroblast, though I do really like it against Bloodbraid Elf, goblins, sulfuric vortex (which destroys us), etc. I might try a spell Pierce, spell Snare, or a flusterstorm in that slot.

And alright, I'll try that with Geist. I just feel like I shouldn't board it in against any decks with a lot of creatures, as it becomes 4 damage for 3 mana at that point. Is this correct?

On a side note, has anyone been having trouble with Jund? I don't get completely blown out, but a turn 1 thoughseize, turn 2 Hymn, followed by a threat is really hard to deal with, and really common in a deck that plays 4 Thoughtseize and 2-4 Hymns.

Thanks for the input!

[xfxf]

thra1l, most lists I've seen so far running that many 1 ofs like Vindacte, Verdict in the main tend to also stick a Ponder there to increase their chances of finding that one answer. I'm also running with 2 Wastelands, thus 23 lands, so it doesn't leave me with enough space to squeeze both the 1 ofs and a Ponder. How's that working out for you without the additional cantrip?

[marax]

Main Deck:
Regarding Wasteland:
Wasteland is needed to win against Maze of Ith (though this card has become a lot rarer).
More importantly, it is not used as a tempo play or to screw people. It is very powerful to just cut down mana for a single turn so you can ignore certain hand cards in opponents hand. For example, you waste the single red untapped mana post board to play around REB before resolving Jace or you waste the single blue to ignore the spell snare. Wastleand also enables taxing counters to work quite a bit longer and gives you more time in the combo match ups.
Regarding Explosives:
While Explosives is a flexible card, it was always the anti Mongoose card in this deck. With RUG playing 4 Stifle now (they used to play stifleless for quite some time) I have come to dislike the card. I am now playing a third equipment maindeck instead to account for the influx of discard and Abrupt decay into the meta.
Regading Vindicate:
Strongly agree. This is an awesome card, would never cut it form the main and board it out very rarely.
Supreme Verdict:
I dislike it as a one off in the Main deck. I feel Esper blade is more of a (slow) mid range deck. I want to disrupt my opponents early creatures and then gain board presence with a few souls token and threaten the equipment win. I play a fifth spot removal over this (atm Disfigure) so I can handle DRS, Lackey, Mother of Runes, Dark Confidant more reliably.
Intuition:
Also also do notlike intuition because I feel it is too slow.

Regarding SB choices:
Vendilion Clique/ Geist:
I strongly feel each Esperblade deck include either Clique or Geist. I like Clique because it kills Mongoose in Combat and is powerful vs Combo. I feel Geist is too slow in Legacy especially without mana acceleration. Nevertheless the card attacks for 6 a turn and is a true beatstick. I guess I dislike the variance of the card too much.
Hydroblast:
I never thought about the application vs Vortex. I think this will make me play this card in the future (it is also great vs lackey, burn, Burning wish combo, and Jund).
Countersuite:
I also like to board one or two Negate vs. Combo and Control matchups. MD I usually play 2 Spell pierce but I am thinking about replacing one for a Spell Snare eventhough tis could make Liliana somewhat of a problem if you can not find Lingering Souls.
Discard:
I do not play more discard usually.
Sweeper:
2 Perish + 1 Zealous Persecution I like the most.

[Qweerios]

How did the AVs work out for you in general? Do you think omission of black and inclusion of AV have improved any of your matchups?

With Esper I find that the deck have all the tools it could need for a particular situation but not enough ways to dig for those answers and create real card advantage as opposed to the nominal card advantage from Snapcaster, Lingering Souls etc. So I would be interested in giving the UW version a try.

Everytime AV kicked in I won. I was down to 1-2 life points on several occasions but drawing 4 cards in a turn gave me a complete grip over the game. Losing black in favor of straight UW allows me to operate on basics, and I think that's really important against RUG. I have never felt like Esperblade was very strong against RUG and BUG tempo decks at all and I feel like a combination of basic lands, wastelands, and supreme verdict is a step in the right direction.

[Malakai]

RUG used to be scary, then they printed Rest in Peace.

[klaus]

RUG used to be scary, then they printed Rest in Peace.
* like

[thra1l]

thra1l, most lists I've seen so far running that many 1 ofs like Vindacte, Verdict in the main tend to also stick a Ponder there to increase their chances of finding that one answer. I'm also running with 2 Wastelands, thus 23 lands, so it doesn't leave me with enough space to squeeze both the 1 ofs and a Ponder. How's that working out for you without the additional cantrip?

It's actually been working out quite well so far. I originally wanted to put 1-2 Ponders in with all of my 1-ofs, but maybe I've just gotten lucky or something, because I really haven't felt the need for it yet. I would still like to test 1-2, because they become even better games 2-3, because you can dig for your Sideboard cards. I don't know what I would take out to even test it though. The Supreme Verdict or EE maybe? I dunno, what do you guys think?


Main Deck:
Regarding Wasteland:
Wasteland is needed to win against Maze of Ith (though this card has become a lot rarer).
More importantly, it is not used as a tempo play or to screw people. It is very powerful to just cut down mana for a single turn so you can ignore certain hand cards in opponents hand. For example, you waste the single red untapped mana post board to play around REB before resolving Jace or you waste the single blue to ignore the spell snare. Wastleand also enables taxing counters to work quite a bit longer and gives you more time in the combo match ups.
Regarding Explosives:
While Explosives is a flexible card, it was always the anti Mongoose card in this deck. With RUG playing 4 Stifle now (they used to play stifleless for quite some time) I have come to dislike the card. I am now playing a third equipment maindeck instead to account for the influx of discard and Abrupt decay into the meta.
Regading Vindicate:
Strongly agree. This is an awesome card, would never cut it form the main and board it out very rarely.
Supreme Verdict:
I dislike it as a one off in the Main deck. I feel Esper blade is more of a (slow) mid range deck. I want to disrupt my opponents early creatures and then gain board presence with a few souls token and threaten the equipment win. I play a fifth spot removal over this (atm Disfigure) so I can handle DRS, Lackey, Mother of Runes, Dark Confidant more reliably.
Intuition:
Also also do notlike intuition because I feel it is too slow.

Regarding SB choices:
Vendilion Clique/ Geist:
I strongly feel each Esperblade deck include either Clique or Geist. I like Clique because it kills Mongoose in Combat and is powerful vs Combo. I feel Geist is too slow in Legacy especially without mana acceleration. Nevertheless the card attacks for 6 a turn and is a true beatstick. I guess I dislike the variance of the card too much.
Hydroblast:
I never thought about the application vs Vortex. I think this will make me play this card in the future (it is also great vs lackey, burn, Burning wish combo, and Jund).
Countersuite:
I also like to board one or two Negate vs. Combo and Control matchups. MD I usually play 2 Spell pierce but I am thinking about replacing one for a Spell Snare eventhough tis could make Liliana somewhat of a problem if you can not find Lingering Souls.
Discard:
I do not play more discard usually.
Sweeper:
2 Perish + 1 Zealous Persecution I like the most.

Yea, like I said, Wasteland has been great. I don't try to use it as a Tempo card, but sometimes it just happens that way lol. And it really does work well when my opponent tries to fetch basics after game 1. Also, I generally mull a hand with Wasteland unless i have 2 more duals/fetches.

Explosives: I've really liked EE so far, but maybe I can cut one for a Ponder, especially since I have S. Verdict to deal with Mongoose. I'm not entirely certain about this decision, because EE has never disappointed.

Supreme Verdict: It's been really good. I'm not entirely attached to having it main, so it's another possible candidate to replace with Ponder. I do want either EE or Verdict main, though, I think.

Intuition can be slow, but I've never really been unhappy to see it, unless I topdeck it when I'm behind anyway. Which even then it's not bad, being able to buy myself a few turns with all of the Spirit tokens it enables. And personally I love getting 3 Surgical Extractions lol. ;)

V. Clique, I used to love it, but I really do like Geist more as a sideboard card.

I think I am going to take out either the Cabal Therapy or Inquisition from my sideboard and put in another Perish. That should help my matchup against Jund, too.

What exactly is your Sideboard at the moment?


Thanks again!

[apistat_commander]

Here are my thoughts on the discussion:

- Wasteland: Maybe I just don't see Maze of Ith decks in my meta, but this seems kind of loose. Our mana is really tight as-is, and we can almost always do something with extra lands. I do appreciate the applications against 12-post but I am not changing my maindeck to beat that deck.

- Supreme Verdict: I like having the singleton in the main. Even though it isn't relevant in every MU, having an uncounterable Wrath effect is really good against a sizable portion of the field.

- Engineered Explosives: It can be a little slow but the ability to handle anything from 0-3 is awesome. It is also a miser's G1 out to Storm/Belcher.

- Ponder: I would run a second one if I could fit it but I prefer to run a few more singleton bombs.

- Perish: While Perish is powerful, I don't know if I would double up on it because it is somewhat narrow and we need a flexible board. Unless I was certain to see a ton of Green decks I would run EE, Verdict, Humility, Path, Disfigure, Darkblast, Zealous Persecution, or any number of other things over the second copy.

- For the people considering Hydroblast, have you thought of Celestial Purge? While Purge doesn't do anything against combo it does handle all of the same permanents as Hydroblast plus Liliana, Confidant, Deathrite, Tombstalker, etc. etc.

I am pretty happy with Vidianto's maindeck but I am working on tweaking my sideboard and wanted some input.

Venser over V Clique: I have been running a 2nd Clique in my sideboard and it has been generally useful where I want it (combo/control) but I was thinking of replacing it with Venser. Venser is flexible and gives you outs to many situations that would be impossible otherwise. On the other hand he costs 4, is just a 2/2, and has no evasion. Clique is a pretty quick clock on its own but is a beating when combined with any equipment.

Humility over Verdict/EE: I have 4 slots in my board dedicated solely to creature MUs (Path, Persecution, and Perish are the other 3) and I was thinking of running a Humility here as well. Humility can neuter a lot of the big stupid creature decks and is a beating with Lingering Souls. However 4 is pretty steep for a sideboard card. Thoughts?

[Jessenator]

So after the crazy amount of Jund that's been showing up lately, what are our best maindeck/sidedeck answers to "fair" decks like these?

[sdematt]

In all honesty, 4 STP + Snapcaster Mages sucks balls to play. I know there's some loss in value with DRS everywhere, but at that point, I'd just run more 1 CMC removal.

-Matt

[Jessenator]

In all honesty, 4 STP + Snapcaster Mages sucks balls to play. I know there's some loss in value with DRS everywhere, but at that point, I'd just run more 1 CMC removal.

-Matt

I think planeswalkers like Elspeth is pretty good to come in for this matchup. Thoughts? She can easily defend herself from other creatures, but punishing fire is such trouble against all our creatures.. I'm not sure if the 1 CMC removal is the right answer against that deck. More Explosives can get multiple creatures and permanents at a time, EE on 2 could be something.

[useL]

I've been playing alot against storm using senseis divining top as their filter. This disables my discard as they will just play from the top. Any suggestions how to handle this? Should I swap discard into flusterstorms or do you have any other suggestions?

[Amazing Larry]

So after the crazy amount of Jund that's been showing up lately, what are our best maindeck/sidedeck answers to "fair" decks like these?

Another option you may wish to consider is 2 Baleful Strixes in the SB. There's also crazy synergy with Academy Ruins if you're running that.

[useL]

Another option you may wish to consider is 2 Baleful Strixes in the SB. There's also crazy synergy with Academy Ruins if you're running that.

They play Grim Lavamancer, Lightning Bolt, Liliana and Abrupt Decay. How can Baleful Strix be any good? They even get an artifact in the graveyard so that their goyf grows.

[Amazing Larry]

They play Grim Lavamancer, Lightning Bolt, Liliana and Abrupt Decay. How can Baleful Strix be any good? They even get an artifact in the graveyard so that their goyf grows.

Baleful Strix can also murder Goyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. It can recur with Academy out, and it replaces itself with a card draw. Card advantage is one of the best ways to combat Jund as they have plenty of it, and Stoneblade needs to keep up. As for an artifact going to the yard to grow their Goyfs, trust me when I say that Strix is not the first artifact of Stoneblade's that they want to blow up. Against Abrupt Decay, we are almost always going to have an artifact in our yard. The point of Strix is to fight them with a grindy, creature that replaces itself, doubles as removal, can possibly recur, and can pick up a sword/jitte and swing away.

[thra1l]

Baleful Strix can also murder Goyf, and Bloodbraid Elf. It can recur with Academy out, and it replaces itself with a card draw. Card advantage is one of the best ways to combat Jund as they have plenty of it, and Stoneblade needs to keep up. As for an artifact going to the yard to grow their Goyfs, trust me when I say that Strix is not the first artifact of Stoneblade's that they want to blow up. Against Abrupt Decay, we are almost always going to have an artifact in our yard. The point of Strix is to fight them with a grindy, creature that replaces itself, doubles as removal, can possibly recur, and can pick up a sword/jitte and swing away.

I actually really like this idea. I'm going to try out 2 in my SB. Even if Strix dies to a Bolt or Abrupt Decay, they lose card advantage while we effectively lose none. And that just allows for a higher chance of our Stoneforge surviving.

Also having 2 Perish in the sideboard is amazing. Though for me, I might replace one of the Perishes with a Baleful Strix. Either way, I'll be testing it soon, and I'll post what I find out.

[apistat_commander]

Baleful Strix seems pretty terrible against P-Fire. Planning on recurring Strix with Ruins against a deck packing 4 Wastelands is a pipe dream. You won't have the mana to do so or they will just waste your Ruins. Either way the advantage created by Strix isn't significant enough to warrant a sideboard slot. Why would you cut a Perish for Strix? Perish has a much higher potential for card advantage and does a lot more in the match ups where you want creature hate.

Strix also doesn't address the fundamental problem against Jund, which is that their deck is really well designed to grind out card advantage. If you want to beat Jund you either look at ways of disrupting their card advantage or creating your own. You want cards that are flexible and can function to stop their engines (Relic, Rest in Peace, Hydroblast, Celestial Purge) or create card advantage for yourself (Souls, Timely Reinforcement, sweepers, planeswalkers).

[Amazing Larry]

Baleful Strix seems pretty terrible against P-Fire. Planning on recurring Strix with Ruins against a deck packing 4 Wastelands is a pipe dream. You won't have the mana to do so or they will just waste your Ruins. Either way the advantage created by Strix isn't significant enough to warrant a sideboard slot. Why would you cut a Perish for Strix? Perish has a much higher potential for card advantage and does a lot more in the match ups where you want creature hate.

Strix also doesn't address the fundamental problem against Jund, which is that their deck is really well designed to grind out card advantage. If you want to beat Jund you either look at ways of disrupting their card advantage or creating your own. You want cards that are flexible and can function to stop their engines (Relic, Rest in Peace, Hydroblast, Celestial Purge) or create card advantage for yourself (Souls, Timely Reinforcement, sweepers, planeswalkers).

I would not cut Perish for Strix, I would cut some of the less important sideboard options some lists run, like extra discard or extra spell pierces. They do run 3-4 Wastes, but that is not an argument against running Ruins itself. It happens to be a nice synergy but Strix does not need Ruins to be effective, nor do Ruins only interact with Strix. Strix also plays really nicely against RUG as well, so there's that. However, I find that Esperblade is really favored against Jund anyway, and honestly Perish and Spuls are the best things against them, Strix is just a cool bit of tech that I've found to be decent.

[Qweerios]

I personally use 2 copies of Timely Reinforcements and 2 copies of Divert out of my sideboard to combat Jund. I have also added some Glacial Fortress, a Crucible of World and increased my Wasteland count for Punishing Fire and Choke. Here is the Stoneblade list I use after having adapted to Jund and BUG decks:


Creatures (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Instants (18)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

Others (9)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Divert
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


For Jund, I do -2 Counterspell/Spell Snare (depends if on play or draw), -2 Pierce, -4 FoW, -1 Sphere for +2 Divert, +2 Path, +2 Timely, 1 Verdict, 1 Disenchant, 1 SoFaF. Divert is great for anything using Hymn and/or Decay

[Amazing Larry]

I personally use 2 copies of Timely Reinforcements and 2 copies of Divert out of my sideboard to combat Jund. I have also added some Glacial Fortress, a Crucible of World and increased my Wasteland count for Punishing Fire and Choke. Here is the Stoneblade list I use after having adapted to Jund and BUG decks:


Creatures (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Instants (18)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell

Others (9)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (23)
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Divert
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine


For Jund, I do -2 Counterspell/Spell Snare (depends if on play or draw), -2 Pierce, -4 FoW, -1 Sphere for +2 Divert, +2 Path, +2 Timely, 1 Verdict, 1 Disenchant, 1 SoFaF. Divert is great for anything using Hymn and/or Decay

I agree Divert/Misdirection is also awesome against Jund, as well as Team America. I can see Timely Reinforcements as a good tool there as well. I still don't like running Wastelands in this deck, but I suppose if you're not splashing black, it may be OK. Hitting Groves can be nice.

[Arsenal]

I use Timely Reinforcements (for my Miracle Control deck, but same theory applies) against Jund (and pretty much any aggressive-ish deck) and it's absolutely bonkers. The tokens give you outs to Liliana, the 6 life is HUGE in trying to stabilize, and if you Snap it back? DELICIOUS. I've been using Timely Reinforcements as a SB card in pretty much any deck that can support it (Junk, Blade Control, Miracle Control, etc).

[aznepyon7]

I use Timely Reinforcements (for my Miracle Control deck, but same theory applies) against Jund (and pretty much any aggressive-ish deck) and it's absolutely bonkers. The tokens give you outs to Liliana, the 6 life is HUGE in trying to stabilize, and if you Snap it back? DELICIOUS. I've been using Timely Reinforcements as a SB card in pretty much any deck that can support it (Junk, Blade Control, Miracle Control, etc).

I second this. It's extremely good in the Jund matchup and any decks of similar nature.

Also against Jund, Ancestral Vision seems to be a good idea. Fight attrition with attrition. While they will be busy trying to discard your hand and land disrupt you, you just stall until it pays off.

[dunk]

I never had trouble against Jund with the list that won the last GP. Sure, sometimes they go Hymn Hymn and win, or have too many threats to be answered, but most of your board influencing cards generate enough advantage to overhelm them and well, you get to play Brainstorm while Jund doesn't. Unless some nut draws are involved the matchup should be favored for Esper. I don't really see a reason to tweak the deck for that matchup or add weird SB cards ( Timely is ok though ).
The Punishing Fire version eats us though. They sometimes lose for not being able to cast Brainstorm, but once they got the engine active there's no way out.

[JimmyC27]

The Punishing Fire version eats us though. They sometimes lose for not being able to cast Brainstorm, but once they got the engine active there's no way out.


Surgical Extraction / Extirpate effects work well against Punishing Fire.

[Qweerios]

Grove of the Burnwillows is one of the top reasons why I up'ed the Wasteland count to 3 and threw in Crucible. It just happens to prey upon BUG and RUG as well. As far as losing the black splash, I only really miss it against certain combo decks and in the mirror really. Not going for a black source on turn 1 has been massive against anything packing mana denial. I think what I miss the most is Engineered Plague in the SB.

[dunk]

Surgical Extraction / Extirpate effects work well against Punishing Fire.

I'm aware of that. Problem is that you have to pull the trick early, otherwise they will just dodge it by recurring them.