[Article] How to Really Live: My Life as a Traveling Backpacked, Cardboard-Dealing...

[metamet]

Mike Hawthorne begins his upcoming weekly Legacy-focused Insider series by introducing himself and responding to the most recent tournament results, noting which cards deserve speculative attention.

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/07/how-to-really-live-my-life-as-a-traveling-backpacked-cardboard-dealing-degenerate/

Any thoughts or opinions on this example of a success story working within the world of hustling and moving cards? Observations on Mike's observations?

[Michael Keller]

I have read about a number of "professional" Magic players using the game as a primary source of income. Here's my take:

Magic, like poker, will always have the risk of financial setback if you have a string of bad luck and no winnings. Even the greatest of poker - and Magic - players succumb to this every so often. There is nothing wrong with developing yourself as a business person among your peers, and strengthening your card pool is always a good investment as Magic right now is at an all-time high in regards to popularity. However, being as cards are assets and people do make good, serious money off the game, there still comes serious risks involved when it comes to dedicating your life to a card game.

Take for instance what happened in the article: the guy got his cards stolen. In retrospect, that is like having your career stolen from you if you dedicate time acquiring and accruing assets like the aforementioned. It isn't a sure thing and you really need to ask yourself honestly if this is something you want to do as a career as the risks are just as great as the rewards. Some people see this as an appealing option; I do not.

However, in an unsure economy, I guess any way to make a living doing what makes you happy is quite a rare thing.

[menace13]

Mike Hawthorne begins his upcoming weekly Legacy-focused Insider series by introducing himself and responding to the most recent tournament results, noting which cards deserve speculative attention.

http://www.quietspeculation.com/2011/07/how-to-really-live-my-life-as-a-traveling-backpacked-cardboard-dealing-degenerate/

Any thoughts or opinions on this example of a success story working within the world of hustling and moving cards? Observations on Mike's observations?
He leaves a backpack with thousands of dollars in it, ungaurded in the back of his car in a parking lot without any security cameras- or at least not where his car was parked- and I'm going to take his advice?

[OurSerratedDust]

I really enjoyed this article. It is interesting to see the growth from a casual player to a full time magic dealer.

The biggest reason I wouldn't do this sort of thing is because I feel like it might take the fun away from things a little bit. Have you found that to be the case at all?

[Shawn]

Good stuff, Mike. Watching you hand someone a stack of cash in Providence telling them "Count this, I have more stuff to sell." and seeing it total up to something like two grand was pretty mindblowing. Buying and selling is something I definitely need to work on, whenever I get prizes I just ship them off for cash to get staples I need.

[metamet]

He leaves a backpack with thousands of dollars in it, ungaurded in the back of his car in a parking lot without any security cameras- or at least not where his car was parked- and I'm going to take his advice?

To be fair, his advice isn't about where to leave your cards. :) we have all made mistakes, being human (and whatnot). I've heard of a number of top players having their deck stolen at large tournaments. Didn't that happen to a big name at the last GP even? Stuff happens... but I can understand how that lapse in judgment can be seen as a deterrent, though.

For me, the fact that the collection was stolen and he was able to work back from it helped indicate where his strengths are.

[metamet]

I really enjoyed this article. It is interesting to see the growth from a casual player to a full time magic dealer.

The biggest reason I wouldn't do this sort of thing is because I feel like it might take the fun away from things a little bit. Have you found that to be the case at all?

I'll see if I can get Mike on over here, but I would recommend leaving a comment on the article page to be sure you'll get a response. I'm just relaying a link here. :)


Take for instance what happened in the article: the guy got his cards stolen. In retrospect, that is like having your career stolen from you if you dedicate time acquiring and accruing assets like the aforementioned. It isn't a sure thing and you really need to ask yourself honestly if this is something you want to do as a career as the risks are just as great as the rewards. Some people see this as an appealing option; I do not.

That's very true! I think that the lifestyle, as it were, is definitely one that requires a certain conscious decision to pursue. Poker is a great comparison, as is even playing the game as a full time endeavor. Each requires a certain amount of dedication and understanding of the risks and potential payout.


Good stuff, Mike. Watching you hand someone a stack of cash in Providence telling them "Count this, I have more stuff to sell." and seeing it total up to something like two grand was pretty mindblowing. Buying and selling is something I definitely need to work on, whenever I get prizes I just ship them off for cash to get staples I need.

Always good to hear from you, Shawn! I'd encourage you to leave feedback on the website so we can be sure Mike sees it, but I'll point him to this thread as well. :)

Watching Mike turn over cards like that is always a thing to behold.

[menace13]

To be fair, his advice isn't about where to leave your cards. :) we have all made mistakes, being human (and whatnot). I've heard of a number of top players having their deck stolen at large tournaments. Didn't that happen to a big name at the last GP even? Stuff happens... but I can understand how that lapse in judgment can be seen as a deterrent, though.

For me, the fact that the collection was stolen and he was able to work back from it helped indicate where his strengths are.
I know, I was just being a dik, but it is a rather poor decision concerning where he places his money and how careful he is with it.

Also it raises a lot of questions; Was his the only car there, was it an isolated area, what time of night, was he the only person clocking out his shift, has he reimbursed his friends for their loss, were any of his co-workers privy to the contents of the backpack?

[metamet]

I know, I was just being a dik, but it is a rather poor decision concerning where he places his money and how careful he is with it.

Also it raises a lot of questions; Was his the only car there, was it an isolated area, what time of night, was he the only person clocking out his shift, has he reimbursed his friends for their loss, were any of his co-workers privy to the contents of the backpack?

All good questions. I'm not in much of a position to answer properly (the comments on the article'd be your best bet), but I can say this: Mike helped to rebuild his collective's collection far beyond where it used to be.

[Richard Cheese]

Interesting. I've been under the impression that opening packs isn't really worth anything outside fun. I guess I need to start trying to trade for more than just what I need to finish a deck.

[menace13]

All good questions. I'm not in much of a position to answer properly (the comments on the article'd be your best bet), but I can say this: Mike helped to rebuild his collective's collection far beyond where it used to be.
In that case, Go Go Mike!

[cupajoe]

I think this article perpetrates the myth that you can make a lot of money playing Magic. Notice that there's no discussion of dollar figures here. He doesn't say he lost his job and since then his monthly income from Magic is X, minus Y from traveling expenses. Also, paying for your own health care, etc.

For the vast majority of players, being a pro Magic player is not a viable profession. Even among the upper echelons of players, they are not making the kind of money from playing Magic that would justify the time/effort/expense. Most eventually realize this, which is why you don't see 30-somethings as full-time, pro Magic players, without another job to support themselves.

Magic players would be much better off studying the stock market, for instance, and becoming a broker. Or, some type of analysis/research type job would be much more lucrative, better in the long term, etc. These are similar skills to deckbuilding, analyzing matchups, etc. The "deep thinking" Magic players have transferable skills that would suit them well in the business/science world.

Playing Magic is a hobby, not a profession.

The writer seems to making the most money from trades, amassing a card collection, etc. Now that has some potential to be a worthwhile moneymaker, but traveling to GPs or Pro Tours is a needless expense, IMO. Amass the cards and sell them on the Internet or locally.

But even that I would see as more of a supplemental income and not a major source of sustenance.

[workingdude]

I think this article perpetrates the myth that you can make a lot of money playing Magic. Notice that there's no discussion of dollar figures here. He doesn't say he lost his job and since then his monthly income from Magic is X, minus Y from traveling expenses. Also, paying for your own health care, etc.

For the vast majority of players, being a pro Magic player is not a viable profession. Even among the upper echelons of players, they are not making the kind of money from playing Magic that would justify the time/effort/expense. Most eventually realize this, which is why you don't see 30-somethings as full-time, pro Magic players, without another job to support themselves.

Magic players would be much better off studying the stock market, for instance, and becoming a broker. Or, some type of analysis/research type job would be much more lucrative, better in the long term, etc. These are similar skills to deckbuilding, analyzing matchups, etc. The "deep thinking" Magic players have transferable skills that would suit them well in the business/science world.

Playing Magic is a hobby, not a profession.

The writer seems to making the most money from trades, amassing a card collection, etc. Now that has some potential to be a worthwhile moneymaker, but traveling to GPs or Pro Tours is a needless expense, IMO. Amass the cards and sell them on the Internet or locally.

But even that I would see as more of a supplemental income and not a major source of sustenance.

Also, becoming a full time magic player as the only/primary source of income can really hurt your future. I dont know when it will happen, but magic cant survive forever in terms of popularity and lucrativeness, and when Magic eventually does begin to go downhill, these players will then have a 10 year gap in their resume where they have little to show and nothing to offer.

[Amon Amarth]

I really enjoyed this article. It is interesting to see the growth from a casual player to a full time magic dealer.

The biggest reason I wouldn't do this sort of thing is because I feel like it might take the fun away from things a little bit. Have you found that to be the case at all?

I can't speak for the author but this was not the case for me. I had so much fun helping people get the cards they needed. My passion for the game extended way beyond "stackin' paper to tha ceiling". A lot of people have had bad experiences trading with dealers, other players, etc that being able to give someone a positive experience... well it meant a lot to me.

[GGoober]

Magic players would be much better off studying the stock market, for instance, and becoming a broker. Or, some type of analysis/research type job would be much more lucrative, better in the long term, etc. These are similar skills to deckbuilding, analyzing matchups, etc. The "deep thinking" Magic players have transferable skills that would suit them well in the business/science world.

Playing Magic is a hobby, not a profession.

QFT.

The only subtlety is: you can most likely make more money by becoming a broker with the skills and talents which you have in MTG trading, but for most people, they want to do something that they love and make money out of it. In the end, it boils down to: do I pick Job X with a higher pay or Job Y which I like better with a lower pay.

Trading is a hobby to me. If I can benefit in trades and make a profit, I feel good about myself being 'smart'. If I make a loss, I hit myself but not too hard since it's a hobby to begin with in the first place. Most of the time now, I find myself trading just to help others out i.e. I don't really go cutthroat on deals for value, but rather, just help other people get what they want, and if they're fine with the trade, it's all good with me. I actually would help others get into Legacy rather than prevent them from getting into Legacy by hoarding onto my extra duals. The only issue becomes: I don't find people to trade much these days since I have everything I need :/

Guess that's why we play EDH, so we can trade some extra staples for crappy cards that have psuedo hyped up value (The price of EDH staples really confuse me lol).

[Gamble4Value]

I know, I was just being a dik, but it is a rather poor decision concerning where he places his money and how careful he is with it.

Also it raises a lot of questions; Was his the only car there, was it an isolated area, what time of night, was he the only person clocking out his shift, has he reimbursed his friends for their loss, were any of his co-workers privy to the contents of the backpack?


Hi, its Mike Hawthorne. There was a security guard on shift my car was parked in view of the window. The thief was very brave and very lucky to have gotten away. I was inside the restaurant for a total of five minutes while my backpack was in the car. I made a mistake and I know it was dumb but at the time it was the thought of leaving 300 in cash in the restaurant and I just ran in not realizing I had left my bag in my car.

[Gamble4Value]

As for figures go, its hard to keep track of cash in hand but I know at my last job I was making about $14 an hour after taxes. While still spending money to fly out to magic trips based on the fact that I had to work in the morning making driving to any US trip impossible. I was making about 1400 a month, post taxes and rent, and 2 flights a month totaling about 450 dollars and hotel totaling about 100 a trip. Since I lost my job I have traveled to, Rhode Island, Kansas City twice, Indianapolis twice, Dallas, Fargo, and 2 local PTQs. Traveling for a trip has greatly decreased in cost by driving with a group. Providence with hotel and car was approximately 170 because I roomed with people I drove with.That is the most expensive trip this year. THe money has been very comparable I made, 3.5k in RI, 2k in dallas, 1.75k in Kansas city the first time and the second time was a drunken gamble fest so I don't exactly remember how much it was but I know it was over 1k. Indianapolis was 1.5k both times and fargo was 750 dollars. Every local PTQ I go to is close to 750 dollars but I'm not moving a ton of product. The money has been very comparable to working my regular job except I get to have a lot more fun and the paychecks aren't as stable. I also do freelance graphic design work on the side to pay real bills. This is just a side job for tons of spending money. I enjoy what I do and plan on doing it as long as I can. I still am searching a new graphic design job but it wold need to have flexible hours to keep up with my magic lifestyle.

[KevinTrudeau]

You go to Monster Den, right? I've done had many good matches with you, you're a cool dude to play against. Congrats on getting to write for QS.

[cupajoe]

As for figures go, its hard to keep track of cash in hand but I know at my last job I was making about $14 an hour after taxes. While still spending money to fly out to magic trips based on the fact that I had to work in the morning making driving to any US trip impossible. I was making about 1400 a month, post taxes and rent, and 2 flights a month totaling about 450 dollars and hotel totaling about 100 a trip. Since I lost my job I have traveled to, Rhode Island, Kansas City twice, Indianapolis twice, Dallas, Fargo, and 2 local PTQs. Traveling for a trip has greatly decreased in cost by driving with a group. Providence with hotel and car was approximately 170 because I roomed with people I drove with.That is the most expensive trip this year. THe money has been very comparable I made, 3.5k in RI, 2k in dallas, 1.75k in Kansas city the first time and the second time was a drunken gamble fest so I don't exactly remember how much it was but I know it was over 1k. Indianapolis was 1.5k both times and fargo was 750 dollars. Every local PTQ I go to is close to 750 dollars but I'm not moving a ton of product. The money has been very comparable to working my regular job except I get to have a lot more fun and the paychecks aren't as stable. I also do freelance graphic design work on the side to pay real bills. This is just a side job for tons of spending money. I enjoy what I do and plan on doing it as long as I can. I still am searching a new graphic design job but it wold need to have flexible hours to keep up with my magic lifestyle.

Not to sound too preachy, but I think you're asking yourself the wrong question. Comparing what you're doing to scrape by selling/trading cards at events versus your old job. A natural comparison, of course, but probably the wrong one, especially if you're just starting out on a career

The question should be...did the $14 an hour job have the potential to land you something bigger/better down the road? Better than selling Magic cards, playing at pro events?

The figures you quoted were unimpressive as far as a career and people by nature underestimate their travel expenses unless they write down everything they purchase from being on the road versus writing down all their expenses while at home.

Not to mention the taxes you'll have to pay in a lump sum on your gains and the aforementioned cost of buying health care as an individual is much more expensive than through a company

Now, that being said, a few of your more lucrative trips might be worth going to as a supplement to a job versus trying to do what you're doing all the time. And, as I said before....there really isn't too much of a need to travel IMO....you could be selling/trading cards over the Internet and cut your travel costs by quite a bit

I'm not trying to be a downer and I truly wish you the best, but if you take emotion out of it and really look at the cold hard facts I think you will see that what I'm saying is true

If you're still doing this two years from now I will be very surprised

[cupajoe]

As for figures go, its hard to keep track of cash in hand but I know at my last job I was making about $14 an hour after taxes. While still spending money to fly out to magic trips based on the fact that I had to work in the morning making driving to any US trip impossible. I was making about 1400 a month, post taxes and rent, and 2 flights a month totaling about 450 dollars and hotel totaling about 100 a trip. Since I lost my job I have traveled to, Rhode Island, Kansas City twice, Indianapolis twice, Dallas, Fargo, and 2 local PTQs. Traveling for a trip has greatly decreased in cost by driving with a group. Providence with hotel and car was approximately 170 because I roomed with people I drove with.That is the most expensive trip this year. THe money has been very comparable I made, 3.5k in RI, 2k in dallas, 1.75k in Kansas city the first time and the second time was a drunken gamble fest so I don't exactly remember how much it was but I know it was over 1k. Indianapolis was 1.5k both times and fargo was 750 dollars. Every local PTQ I go to is close to 750 dollars but I'm not moving a ton of product. The money has been very comparable to working my regular job except I get to have a lot more fun and the paychecks aren't as stable. I also do freelance graphic design work on the side to pay real bills. This is just a side job for tons of spending money. I enjoy what I do and plan on doing it as long as I can. I still am searching a new graphic design job but it wold need to have flexible hours to keep up with my magic lifestyle.

Not to sound too preachy, but I think you're asking yourself the wrong question. Comparing what you're doing to scrape by selling/trading cards at events versus your old job. A natural comparison, of course, but probably the wrong one, especially if you're just starting out on a career

The question should be...did the $14 an hour job have the potential to land you something bigger/better down the road? Better than selling Magic cards, playing at pro events?

The figures you quoted were unimpressive as far as a career and people by nature underestimate their travel expenses unless they write down everything they purchase from being on the road versus writing down all their expenses while at home.

Not to mention the taxes you'll have to pay in a lump sum on your gains and the aforementioned cost of buying health care as an individual is much more expensive than through a company

Now, that being said, a few of your more lucrative trips might be worth going to as a supplement to a job versus trying to do what you're doing all the time. And, as I said before....there really isn't too much of a need to travel IMO....you could be selling/trading cards over the Internet and cut your travel costs by quite a bit

I'm not trying to be a downer and I truly wish you the best, but if you take emotion out of it and really look at the cold hard facts I think you will see that what I'm saying is true

If you're still doing this two years from now I will be very surprised

[Gamble4Value]

The thing is I could sell cards on the internet yes. I do this because It is fun and it becomes a self supporting hobby. I am by no means saying this is my career. I still do graphic design work. I would go to these events even if they weren't paid for by the cards themselves. I got laid off I didn't quit my job for magic and never would. I just realize that this can be a very profitable part time job if done correctly. I don't advise this as a full time lifestyle I'm just proving it can be done. I am here to assist people in buying and selling cards not to tell them how to live. If you want to follow your dreams and play magic for a job do it, practice, play well and succeed. If you want to sell cards full time practice, keep updated and succeed. Many people have done it and many more will do so. I am just sharing my story.

[Gamble4Value]

You go to Monster Den, right? I've done had many good matches with you, you're a cool dude to play against. Congrats on getting to write for QS.

YES, I do play at the den. I can't really see your picture. What do you normally play?