good non Fact or Fiction card-drawer in a Cunning Wish board

[Iron Buddha]

Hello,

I'm looking for a good card-drawer in the Cunning Wish board of my (budget) U/W/b control deck. Fact or Fiction is probably easily the best, but I'm already running 4x Fact or Fiction in the mainboard.

Good replacements seem to be:
- Jace's Ingenuity (very good, but costs five, so if I'm stuck at 4 lands, Careful Consideration might be better, but I'm running 25 mana sources + 4 Brainstorm)
- Careful Consideration (excellent card-quality, only +1 CA, but still CA; how relevant is the sorcery speed?)
- Opportunity
- Stroke of Genius (classic choice, but is it better than Jace's Ingenuity, Opportunity, and Careful Consideartion?)
- Blue Sun's Zenith
- Skeletal Scrying (the lifeloss is probably horrible)
- Tithe (only good to find lands)
- something else

I usually fetch the card-drawer if I need CA or if I want to find a land. I'm running 25 mana sources + 4 Brainstorm.

[from Cairo]

Sounds like your mana curve is pretty top heavy if you're running Cunning Wishes and 4 MD Fact or Fictions. Personally I would probably move a FoF to the board and run a lower cmc card in it's place MD, since stabilizing as UWx is usually priority #1.

But assuming you're comfortable with how the MD plays, maybe try a Cryptic Command? Not really conventional card draw, but it's a nice piece of utility and provides card advantage.

I mean if you're hitting 3 mana for Cunning Wish and have a neutral-positive board position that affords you to search up card draw as a Landstill-esque control deck you're probably doing pretty well already.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Stroke of Genius. If you don't have a billion mana you should just wish for whatever helps you out in the current situation. Jace's Ingenuity is not worth eight mana, and Tithe certainly isn't worth 4.

Also why 4 MD FoF? Have you heard of this card they printed it's called Jace the Mind Sculptor.

But I guess he is like a billionty dollars still that's a pretty good reason.

[Mark Sun]

Stroke of Genius. If you don't have a billion mana you should just wish for whatever helps you out in the current situation. Jace's Ingenuity is not worth eight mana, and Tithe certainly isn't worth 4.

Also why 4 MD FoF? Have you heard of this card they printed it's called Jace the Mind Sculptor.

But I guess he is like a billionty dollars still that's a pretty good reason.

Well, he mentioned:


I'm looking for a good card-drawer in the Cunning Wish board of my (budget) U/W/b control deck.

I don't think Jace, TMS will ever qualify as budget, so he's already out.


Why don't you just play 3 FoF MD and 1 in the SB? You can make the maindeck more redundant, that way you're not just chaining FoF into more draw spells and no business.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I am wondering how three color blue-based budget control works. It would help to see a list.

[Iron Buddha]

the list:

// 25
1 Adakar Waste
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Foutain
5 Island
3 Plain
1 Swamp

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta

4 Mishra's Factory
1 Eternal Dragon

// 14
4 Brainstorm
4 Fact or Fiction
3 Cunning Wish
3 Decree of Justice

// 8
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell

// 13
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Path to Exile

SB:
1 Path to Exile

1 Ray of Distortion
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Tsabo's Decree
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 card drawer in question

1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Misdirection
1 Forbid
1 Negate
1 Chalice of the Void

1 Ravenous Trap
1 Extirpate
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tolaria West



The curve of the deck is actually not as high as it seems to be. If you compare to Tacosnape's recent landstill list, then yes it's very high, but if you compare to Hanni's recent control variants, it's even.


Why don't you just play 3 FoF MD and 1 in the SB? You can make the maindeck more redundant, that way you're not just chaining FoF into more draw spells and no business.
The fourth FoF in the side freeing up a slot is a good point. There are few problems with that: As I'm not running Jace TMS, I need a few more cards than usual in order to have such a good lategame, which is essential for this kind of deck. 3 FoF + 3 Wish + 3 DoJ is rather low for a CA-engine; I definitely prefer to have another CA-spell here.
FoF would be fetched via Wish if I needed CA, but the thing is that most of the time if I need CA, there is a better card to fetch - to be specific: against Zoo, I will always go for Pulse of the Fields, against Merfolk and Goblins I will always go for Tsabo's Decree, against Stoneblade I will always go for Ray of Distortion / Dismantling Blow. That makes FoF kind of a wasted slot in the SB considering that I'm giving it up in the main.


Cryptic Command
The main problem with Cryptic Command is that it doesn't really help if I need lands. It's also not as powerful as the other choices and the utility is not needed, since Wish is already versatile.
There is also the possibility to inlcude CC by cutting one those counters I run in the board (I run 5 different counters). But those counters are supposed to be boarded in (against control and combo) and boarding in a 4c card is significantly worse than boarding in a cheap counter.


Stroke of Genius.
I think Stroke of Genius would be my choice, if it weren't for the fact that I have no card in my board that helps me if the current situation requires me to find lands, which could be quite important considering that I'm running Decree of Justice, too.

[Mr. Safety]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but Lim-Dul's Vault is an incredibly powerful spell. It may cost you a little life, but can basically be seen as a tutor. It's in your colors (although harder to cast due to the :u::b: cost, black is your splash color)

I've always been a little partial to Perilous Research myself...especially with any sort of stealy effect (Sower of Temptation, Control Magic, Vedalken Shackles.) With 24 lands, you should be able to use Research fairly easily. It hits at instant speed, too.

Some other choices:

Thirst for Knowledge
Gifts Ungiven
Intuition
Impulse
Esper Charm


I'm also curious about Extirpate...why not Surgical Extraction? I know you have a black splash for Explosives, but Extraction can be free without mana worries.

I'm curious about the idea of Esper Charm...it's sort of lousy for card draw, but instant speed discard and the enchantment hate gives it promise, especially considering your 25 mana sources setting you up with 3 lands quite easily.

[phonics]

I think fof into the board, drop 1 wrath and 1 explosive for 3x ponder if you are worried about being land screwed. Brainstorm, ponder and 3x fof will get the card selection and you have the draw spell that can dig as well. Have you thought about an academy ruins for recurring the explosives since they are md?

[Iron Buddha]

Everything that doesn't make CA is probably worse than Tithe, as Wish can just fetch the answer right away. (But a wished Tithe feels underpowered, although it does the job)

Perilous Research looks very underpowered, in fact it's not even CA. Esper Charm looks underpowered too, although not as much as Perilous Research, but black mana is atcually a hindrence, enchantment removal is not needed thanks to Ray of Distortion / Dismantling Blow.

Gifts Ungiven may be debatable though, I have to think about.


I had Sensei's Divining Top before, which I think is much better than Ponder. But 3 Top/Ponder + 3 Wish is kind of redundant – too much card-selection. That being said, the deck plays much smoother if I could just improve my Cunning Wish by having a good target in this situation. The deck easily hits the 4th/5th land, it's only the sixth land and so on that I may worry about.

-1 FoF, +1 Ponder: Well, the issue is that the deck is losing power if I do that.

-1 WoG, 1- EE, +2 Ponder: looks like a bad move to me...

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

If Stroke is too expensive go with Skeletal Scrying.

Anything else feels underpowered. You're not going to Demonic Tutor for a Brainstorm, and it's kind of the same principle.

[Mr. Safety]

If Stroke is too expensive go with Skeletal Scrying.

Anything else feels underpowered. You're not going to Demonic Tutor for a Brainstorm, and it's kind of the same principle.

That's kind of why I was thinking of using Lim-Dul's Vault...it can at least allow for some deep digs for what you need, it's essentially a tutor. He may need something that isn't in his wishboard (like Wrath of God, Engineered Explosives, Decree of Justice) LDV can get it for him a lot more reliably than Fact or Fiction or Brainstorm/Ponder.

[Nihil Credo]

Board one FoF and maindeck a Cryptic Command.

[Tacosnape]

I just wouldn't use one. If you find yourself needing to Wish for draw, you're usually better off just playing draw-go until you either hit a draw spell or your opponent does something worth using your Cunning Wish to stop.

Between Brainstorm, Ancestral/Standstill, possibly Top, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I haven't ever really found myself that short of draw. I struggle more with early stabilization and answering weird problems, the latter of which is why you play Cunning Wish in the first place.

[Jak]

That's kind of why I was thinking of using Lim-Dul's Vault...it can at least allow for some deep digs for what you need, it's essentially a tutor. He may need something that isn't in his wishboard (like Wrath of God, Engineered Explosives, Decree of Justice) LDV can get it for him a lot more reliably than Fact or Fiction or Brainstorm/Ponder.

Control decks don't need a bad tutor that eats life and cards. There are way better options.

[Mr. Safety]

I just wouldn't use one. If you find yourself needing to Wish for draw, you're usually better off just playing draw-go until you either hit a draw spell or your opponent does something worth using your Cunning Wish to stop.

Between Brainstorm, Ancestral/Standstill, possibly Top, and Jace, the Mind Sculptor, I haven't ever really found myself that short of draw. I struggle more with early stabilization and answering weird problems, the latter of which is why you play Cunning Wish in the first place.

What this guy said...I wasn't suggesting playing Lim-Dul's Vault in particular, just saying that if you're going to tutor for a 'draw' spell, make that frickin' spell count by getting you exactly what you need. Regardless, Tacosnape summed up the principle nicely above.

[Iron Buddha]

Board one FoF and maindeck a Cryptic Command.
I've dismissed that for two reasons:
1. Cryptic Command as such is much weaker than Fact or Fiction
2. the card-drawing slot is not tremendously important (see Taco's suggestion not to run it at all)
→ I don't feel the deck becomes stronger

To run none at all may be right. But my draw-engine may be a tiny bit weaker than what you're normally used to simply because Decree of Justice as a card-drawer (it draws one card through cycling and stalls for one or two turns so you can draw a few more cards naturally) is not in the same league as Jace as card drawer, in short 4 BS + 4 FoF + 3 DoJ is probably not as good as 4 BS + 4 Standstill + 3 Jace as a card drawing engine?

In fact running no card-drawer in the board is my favourite solution so far.

Skeletal Scrying would be really cool, not sure about the lifeloss though. I will test it out.

[JACO]

Play 4 Ancestral Vision in that maindeck, and play Pulse of the Grid or Fact or Fiction as your Wishable draw spell.

[Iron Buddha]

You're making the assumption that Ancestral Vision is better than Fact or Fiction. I don't think this is true. But 3 FoF + 1 AV looks awkward.

I'm very happy with Think Twice btw. As janky and casual as it sounds, TT is actually better early game than all of them - FoF, Wish, AV, Cryptic Command - while making +1 CA, which is as much as Thirst for Knowledge. Running TT is like running additional lands (like running 27 lands = mana flooded) except that it's not a land, but CA. Putting the fourth FoF into SB makes me want to play Top again. The change I've made: -1 FoF, -1 land, -1 PtE, +2 Top, +1 TT.

[hi-val]

Skeletal Scrying is a pleasing card all-around. I don't mind losing 5 life to draw 5 cards. In that, you'll probably find a way to stop whatever is trying to kill you, anyway.

Another option is Flash of Insight. It's not straight card-draw, but it does show you a lot of cards.

[Iron Buddha]

Okay guys, I'm finally convinced that FoF belongs to the SB. Yes, this is absolutely the right move. You were right. 3 FoF, 3 Wish, 3 Decree of Justice, 3 WoG are enough „bombs“, no need for suboptimal cards like Think Twice. My mistake was not to utilize Wish to its fullest power. In fact, FoF is even my most wished card. I've fetched PtE way too often.

I also optimized my wish board. Take a look:

// 24
15
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Eternal Dragon

// 12
3 Cunning Wish
3 Fact or Fiction
3 Decree of Justice
3 Wrath of God

// 8
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell

// 16
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Path to Exile
2 Sensei's Divining Top

SB:
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Path to Exile
1 Ray of Distortion
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Tsabo's Decree
1 White Sun's Zenith
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Forbid
1 Angel's Grace
1 Ravenous Trap
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Negate