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truls000
08-05-2011, 10:42 AM
UPDATE ! UPDATE ! UPDATE ! UPDATE !
Thanks for all the feed backs, thumbs up! I have now re-designed the whole strategy and exchanged lots of the cards due to all the informative feedbacks and more studying.
As from now on the discussions an posts are regarding this deck list/strategy!

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:wb: Discard - Competitive - No budget - Legacy Valid 1.5 :wb:

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- Hi everyone,

Im currently living in Norway, played Magic:The Gathering (a couple of years) back in the mid 90's. I have now started (couple of months ago) to play and collect MTG again! Lots of things have changed!! New types of permanets, no more mana burn, new turn phases and so on. It was and have no become an amazing game for all age's. Anyway, I like the idea of an competitive self constructed deck, so heres my first try on a legacy deck:



THE CURRENT DECKLIST (Still under construdtion/playtesting)
Discard (10 sorcery ’s and 4 instant - 8x 2manacost 6x 1manacost)
4x Hymn to Tourach
Cost: BB Sorcery
Pros: 1 card for 2 random card discard, best discard card ever printed.
Cons: When splashed with white the BB manacost can be dificult in the first turns, even with the ‘’12’’ dual lands.
4x Gerrard's Verdict
Cost: WB Sorcery
Pros: 1 card for 2 card discard with possible 3 life bouns for each land discarded, can also be used on yourself as an emergency!
Cons: Slow speed, the opponent can chose himself witch cards to discard.
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
Cost: B Sorcery
Pros: 1 card for 1 target max 3 mana cost card discard, almost all legacy decks contain fast max 3mana cost cards.
Cons: Slow speed.
4x Funeral Charm
Cost: B Instant
Pros: 1 card discard, use in late game when opponent is top-decking in the draw phace or a wini-killer or a swampwalk combo with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth or a creature boost (don't use on Dark Confidant).
Cons: The opponent can chose himself witch cards to discard.

Win Condition (4 artifacts, 4 flying creatures, 4 non-flying creatures)
4x Nyxathid
Cost: 1BB Creature
Pros: The deck strategy is to use the first rounds to discard opponent hand, then play it mid/late game and he becomes at least 5/5.
Cons: Vounerable in early game and to opponents draw-card spell's.
4x The Rack
Cost: 1 Artifact
Pros: The discard spells makes this a consistently 'free' damage every turn, 2 Rack's on the battlefield then its game over for the opponent, a savier with Ensnaring Bridge (sideboard) when playing against zoo decks.
Cons: Don’t do much in early game.
4x Serra Avenger
Cost: WW Creature
Pros: The deck strategy is to use the first rounds to discard opponent hand, so a turn 4 drop is perfect, a savier with Ensnaring Bridge (sideboard) when playing against zoo decks.
Cons: When splashed with black the WW manacost can be dificult in the first turns, even with the ‘’12’’ dual lands.
Or should I exchange 2x Serra Avenger with 2x Enlightened Tutor instead, to boost the chance of landing 2 cards of The Rack?

Response & Advantage
4x Vindicate
Cost: 1W Sorcery
Pros: Response to permanets (artifact, creature, enchantment, land, planeswalker). Can be used with Wasteland to remove opponents lands
Cons: Slow speed.
4x Swords to Plowshares
Cost: W
Pros: Instant response to opponents creatures, can also be use on own creatures to gain life in emergency.
Cons: When used on big creatures, opponent gains a lot of lifte.
4x Dark Confidant
Cost: 1B Creature
Pros: Card advantage that strikes for 2 damage, the max 3 mana cost cards makes him not to dangerous.
Cons: Vounerable to small bolts and ping’s.

Mana (60 card deck with 22 makes a nice 2,7:1 ratio)
4x Scrubland
Cost: 0 B&W dual land
Pros: Perfect for a black and white deck, can be targeted with fetchlands.
Cons: Vounerable to wasteland.
4x Godless Shrine
Cost: 0 B&W dual land
Pros: Perfect for a black and white deck , Needed hence the BB and WW casting cost.
Cons: Pay 2 life, vounerable to wasteland.
Or should I use 4x Gemstone Mine to save life instead?
Or should I use 2x Verdant Catacombs (fetch swamp or dual) and 2x Arid Mesa (fetch plain og dual) to save life instead?
4x Marsh Flats
Cost: 0 B&W fetchland
Pros: Fetch basic lands when opponent threatens with Wasteland. Not dangerous to wasteland, if targeted just sacrifice and fetch.
Cons: Pay 1 life.
2x Plain
Cost: 0 Basic land
Pros: Safe cards.
Cons: None?
2x Swamp
Cost: 0 Basic land
Pros: Safe cards.
Cons: None?
Safe cards.
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Cost: 0 Legendary land
Pros: Makes all lands swap-dual, especialy needed for Wasteland, works great with Funeral Charm
Cons: Vounerable to wasteland and can only be 1 in the battlefield because its legendary type.
4x Wasteland
Cost: 0 Colorless land
Pros: Most players will be playing non-basic lands to access the best spells in the legacy format / the non-land mana sources are limited, and have drawbacks that only allow them to be played in certain decks /remove opponent's needed non-basic lands, slow him down
Cons: With the WW and BB cost can be dificult in the first turns.

Side Board (Most likely to ex. with Swords to Plowshares and/or Vindicate?)
4x Ensnaring Bridge
Response cards to goblin, sliver, faerie etc. creature decks,/ play it and let The Rack & Serra Avenger do its work.
4x Tormod's Crypt
Response cards to dredge, graveyard, zombie etc. decks.
4x Leyline of Sanctity
Response cards to burn/spell/discard etc. decks.
3x Sinkhole
Response cards to land decks.



REQUIREMENTS
BW - Discard - Competitive - No budget - Legacy Valid 1.5



STATUS:
Under construction and playtesting



BASIC STRATEGY & BUILD IDEA
The discard deck is splashed with white due to lack of reposne cards in black. Then the needed dual lands makes the deck more vounerable against anti-nonbasic land cards like Back to Basic, Blood Moon and Wasteland but all the superb response cards i white makes it worth the risk. The deck has two stages; The first stage builds upon making opponent discard his hand, then the second stage focuses on cards that do damage to opponent because of the discard-effect from the first stage. A lagre part of the deck also contains some of the most powerfull reponsecards in MTG.



MANA CURVE
:1:mana: Mana: 14
:2:mana: Mana: 16
:3:mana: Mana: 8
:4:mana: + Mana: 0



COLOR DISTRIUBUTION
:b: 18 (53%)
:w: 8 (24%)
:wb: 8 (24%)



CARD MANA SYMBOLS/CASTING COST
:b: Swamp: 34
:w: Plains: 20
Average casting cost: 1,84


TYPE BREAKDOWN
Artifacts: 4 (7%)
Creatures: 12 (20%)
Land: 19 (32%)
Planeswalker: 0 (0%)
Spell: 24 (40%)
Enchantments: 0 (0%)
Other: 0 (0%)



THEORY; Cards in opponent's hand (opponent starts)
// 1st turn:
Opponent: Draws, plays 1 land
You: Play 1 land
End of your turn, opponents hand: 7
End of your turn, your hand: 6
//2nd turn:
Opponent: Draws, plays 1 land & 1 card
You: Draw, play 1 land & Hymn/Verdict
End of your turn, opponents hand: 4
End of your turn, your hand: 5
// 3rd turn:
Opponent: Draws, plays 1 land & 1 card
You: Draw, play 1 land & 1 card
End of your turn, opponents hand: 3
End of your turn, your hand: 4
// 4th turn:
Opponent: Draws, plays 1 land & 1 card
You: Draw, play 1 land & Hymn/Verdict
End of your turn, opponents hand: 0 Zero!
End of your turn, your hand: 3
// Conclusion:
Opponent has no card in hand in your turn #4 and starts to top-draw in his 5th turn. This could also go faster (and slower) but I think this scenario is the most logic result. Ive played this deck a couple of times, if everything works out, 3-4th round opponent top-draw is not impossible.



RE-CONSIDERD & DECLINED CARDS
Go for the Throat & Doom Blade - sideboar needed and 2 mana cost.
Oona's Prowler - to vounreble to ping’s.
Hypnotic Specter - not needed because of all the discard spells.
Cry of Contrition – to slow, there are better once out there.
Wrench Mind - there are better once out there.
Phyrexian Arena - to expencive and cant do damage.
Phyrexian Obliterato- to expencive and black mana vounreble.
Sewer Nemesis - to expencive.
Geth's Verdict – insufficient.
Nezumi Shortfang - doesent trigger anything.
Tombstalker- there are faster creatures.
Unmake- to expencive.
Dark Ritual- the manacurve stops at 3, after that Dark Ritual is almost dead.
Hypnotic Specter - Not needed hence all the discard spells.
Blightning
Strongarm Tactics
Piranha Marsh
Scepter of Fugue
Quest for the Nihil Stone
Mishra's Factory
Liliana Vess
Dark Confidant
Nantuko Shade
Geth's Grimoire
Ravenous Rats
Smallpox
Geth's Verdict
Spinning Darkness
Smother
Contagion
Oblivion Ring
Erase
Disenchant
Oona's Prowler
Nantuko Shade
Descendant of Kiyomaro
Spectral Lynx
Tidehollow Sculler
Steppe Lynx
Serenity





Feedback, comments and constructive criticism are welcome!




Copy of the first post. Valid only to post #15, hence the topic:

THE COMPLETE DECK LIST:
// Artifacts
4x Anvil of Bogardan
// Creatures
4x Nyxathid
4x Abyssal Nocturnus
4x Hypnotic Specter
// Enchantments
4x Liliana's Caress
4x Megrim
//Land
20x Swamp
// Spells
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cry of Contrition
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Wrench Mind


MAIN IDEA (9 playsets + 24 lands = 60 Cards):
Everything is built upon the triggering abilities of discarding cards from opponents hand. When ever you force the opponent to discard a card the effect either boosts up creatures power or takes lives.

DRAW (1 sets):
Anvil of Bogardan makes everyone draw 1 additional card and then discard 1 card during draw step, yes I know it gives your opponent a tiny Brainstorm but it triggers alot of abilities and combos in opponents turn, so it's worth the risk. This is the only 'instant' discard trigger in the deck. Use the draw ability to get Liliana's Caress/Megrim.

DEFENCE (0 sets):
Little focus on direct defence. The idea is that the opponent does not have any cards in his hand to play. No non-basic lands equals no Wasteland/Tectonic Edge fear :) No big an expencive creatures/cards, sereral cards that has the same effect makes 'loosing' a card to Force of Will no problem. Haunt Cry of Contrition's on your own creature combined with Liliana's Caress/Megrim makes the opponent think twise before 'bolting' or blocking them.

DISCARD (3 sets):
3 playsets of cheap '1 card play for 2 card discard': Hymn to Tourach, Wrench Mind and Cry of Contrition.

WIN CONDITION (3 set creatures / 2 set enchanments):
Abyssal Nocturnus becomes 6/6 with only one Hymn to Tourach , the flying Hypnotic Specter with Liliana's Caress/Megrim is devestating. Liliana's Caress/Megrim is just a discard-combo-killer. In late game (when opponent have a few or noe cards in hand, and the Liliana's Caress/Megrim combos does not trigger) Nyxathid sholud easly get 4/4 - 6/6 and do the jobb.

MANA (24 cards):
20x Swamps equals every 3rd card is a land, the deck contains manly 2-3 mana cost cards witch makes 20 lands enough. Dark Ritual is nice to use playing several discard spells at once to increse end of turn combos.

HOW TO PLAY (NB: This a deck is still under playtesting/construction):
Save Dark Ritual to run several discard cards at once, to pump up the effect. Nyxathid is for late game. Anvil of Bogardan's draw ability is manly used to get Liliana's Caress, Megrimand Dark Ritual. Take your time, and plan every spell or attack.

EXSAMPLE COMBOS/TRIGGERS:
- Hymn to Tourach + Abyssal Nocturnus + Liliana's Caress = 6/6 creature + target player discards 2 cards and looses 4 life.
- Hypnotic Specter + Anvil of Bogardan + Megrim = 2/2 flying creature + target player discards 2 card and looses 4 life.
- Cry of Contrition (haunt on one of your own creaure) + Liliana's Caress = Target player discards 1 card and looses 2 life + if opponent kills your creature, opponent discards then 1 more card and looses 2 more life. This can be used as a type of 'defence'.
- Megrim + Liliana's Caress + Hymn to Tourach = opponent discards 2 cards and looses 8 life.
- Megrim + Abyssal Nocturnus = It becomes a 4/4 creature in every turn.

ALTERNATIVE CARDS/SIDEBOARD (The sideborad is not valid yet!):
4x Liliana Vess - for mulitplayer/chaos?

STATISTICS:
Mana Curve
1 Mana: 8 (20.00%)
2 Mana: 16 (40.00%)
3 Mana: 16 (40.00%)
Type Breakdown
Artifacts: 4 (6.67%)
Creatures: 12 (20.00%)
Enchantments: 8 (13.33%)
Land: 20 (33.33%)
Spell: 16 (26.67%)

UPDATE:
05 aug 2011 - Exchanged Dark Confidant with Anvil of Bogardan, same casting cost and more deck synergy.
06 aug 2011 - Exchanged The Rack with Megrim, more casting cost but better deck synergy.

The Rack vs Megrim:
- Minus: The Rack cost 1 while Mergrim cost 2B, three times as expencive.
- Minus: The Rack is a continious effect, Mergrim needs to be triggerd by a discard spell.
+ Pluss: 1 more playset of 'When opponent discards a card = loose 2 life' equals more synergy and less fear of loosing Liliana's Caress to a counterspell.
+ Pluss: The rack is a late game card, Mergrim works from the time it resolves on every discard spell.
= Conclution: If opponent has 1 card in hand/1 turn = The Rack does 2 damage for 1 mana and 1 Hymn & 1 Liliana's Caress does 4 damage for 2 (+2) mana. If you dont count the casting cost for Liliana's Caress its the same 'value for money'. The Rack is 'free' every turn but is vulnerable if opponent doesn play cards and gains 3 cards on his hand, the Mergrim needs a discard card to be played but helps with the synergy of the deck.

Michael Keller
08-05-2011, 11:21 AM
I've always been a fan of straight-up, old-fashioned 'discard' decks. I'm not sure if you're going for budget or not here, but I would look into cards like Bottomless Pit, Oppression, and Chains of Mephistopheles. While these aren't discard spells, they can generate a serious amount of dysfunction in a hurry.

Also, I strongly recommend The Rack as a solid win-condition. (I know you've mentioned it, but it's a recurring source of damage that forces an opponent to be reactive rather than proactive to prevent damage each turn. By adding pressure with creatures, you can steal games relatively quickly using this strategy.)

android
08-05-2011, 12:28 PM
You may wish to look into instant speed discard spells like Funeral Charm as they are effective when your opponent only has one card in hand. If it's not an instant, it's gone.

Another suggestion would be Raven's Crime. This card is straight up golden for me late game, turning useless lands into recurring discard.

Also, considering you're looking at effectively killing them with damage, I would go with Oona's Prowler as it's essentially a faster clock than Hippy.

Greenpoe
08-05-2011, 12:50 PM
I would suggest 4 Thoughtseize/Inquistion of Kozilek and 2 Duress. You really want turn 1 targeted discard to pluck their first threat. Maybe Cabal Therapy too.

mishrazz
08-05-2011, 02:27 PM
This looks interessting, but i agree with Greenpoe that you should add some 1 cost discard. i would recommend Inquisition of Kozilek. I would also re-consider putting in a couple of The Rack as it deals a lot of damage. Against this deck your opponent will play his spells and empty his hand rather than being forced to discard. Another card i would consider is Tendrils of Corruption. If playing against Zoo or other aggro decks, they will be able to land a creature, and fast too. So you must have an answer to the creature threat. Tendrils also fills up your life total. Check out Augur of Skulls from the future sight block. It makes a great blocker when you need that more than discard, and it works great with Cry of Contrition! Opponent discards 4 to your 2 cards.
Good luck and see you at the Club :)

KobeBryan
08-06-2011, 02:08 AM
// Artifacts
4x Anvil of Bogardan

// Creatures
4x Nyxathid
3x Tombstalker
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x dark confidant


// Enchantments
4x Liliana's Caress
3x The Rack

//Land
20x Swamp

// Spells
4x Dark Ritual
2x Inquisition
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughtseize

thats how i would build the deck. Your graveyard will fill up so fast due to you constantly using spells for discard. Dropping a 5/5 flyer will be cake.

the dark confidants are to prevent you from topdeck mode which is the bane of a discard deck. if you are scared of tombstalker with dark confidant, you could take out bob and use some removals.

stasis
08-06-2011, 04:07 AM
Nice research Truls,
After looking trough all your choices i agree with Hollywood and Tor,
squeeing in chains of mephisteles and Thoughtseize.
For my taste i would mix it up with a smallpox shell, smallpox bloodghast and Cabal theraphy
That way you get an early defence, for the early holyshit What happend :)

See you at the club and well done brewing
Sorry for bad english and bad Edit but im on mobil phone with stupid dictionery

nayon
08-06-2011, 10:18 AM
You desperately need an answer for:

A) Resolved creatures/artifacts/planeswalkers
B) Leyline of Sanctity

Heresy
08-06-2011, 10:35 AM
You desperately need an answer for:

A) Resolved creatures/artifacts/planeswalkers
B) Leyline of Sanctity

There's vampire hexmage for 'walkers. Phyrexian Obliterator in the side against Leyline.

Chikenbok
08-06-2011, 12:07 PM
Splash blue for 1 card - Jace's Archivist.

nayon
08-06-2011, 04:57 PM
There's vampire hexmage for 'walkers. Phyrexian Obliterator in the side against Leyline.

You have 12 targeted discard spells, which means 1/5 of your deck is totally dead against Leyline. Obliterator isn't a good answer. You take out 4 discard spells, bring in 4 obliterator (terrible curve?) and then you have 8 cards that are still completely dead.

This is of course without counting the 8 megrim effects you have that are also pretty dead. Leyline of Sanctity isn't a very popular card, but I don't like the idea of being totally dead to a card.

It's not just planeswalkers or leyline. You're quite vulnerable to ensnaring bridge, Moat and the like. There's no answer to artifacts or enchantments. There aren't even any removal spells! I have to say, this looks pretty awkward, especially if you don't resolve a dark ritual on turn 1.

Lammina
08-07-2011, 10:26 PM
Hi all!

IMO, Liliana Caress isnt a good choice... cause, in late game, if you dont have the anvil in the board, its useless: you and your opponent will enter in the top deck mode... and witout one resource of discard..... bad choice!

I use this list:

3 Nezumi Shortfang

2 Go for the throat
2 Doom Blade
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Funeral Charm
3 Wreck Mind
3 Necrogen Mists
3 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to tourach
4 Dark Ritual
4 The Rack

3 Barren Moor
19 Swamp

The Nocturnus and the Specter are very, very much slow for the Legacy...

So, this is it... Hope helps!

Comments please!

Cyah,

Lammina

Qweerios
08-08-2011, 01:17 AM
Caress and Megrim are really bad cards. The strength of a discard deck is having your opponent's options depleted early on because discard is virtually worthless mid/late game. I have played discard decks for as long as I can remember and tested with a whole lot of different cards and colors. The Rack is much better than Megrim and Caress and yet it is still a win-more card. Discard itself does not win you the game and decreases in worth as the game progresses. The general strategy of a discard deck is basically to deplete their hand as soon as possible, putting your opponent in topdeck mode. Then, you need to be able to clear the board of the threats that your opponent layed while you depleted their hand. Follow up with undercosted threats that play along with a heavy in discard/removal deck such as Tarmogoyf, Nyxathid, Sewer Nemesis, Lord of Extinction, Jotun Grunt, even Tempting Wurm... Your best friends should include the following:

Dark Confidant
Nyxathid
Hymn to Tourach
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Wasteland

If you splash White:

Tidehollow Sculler
Gerrard's Verdict
Swords to Plowshares
Vindicate

If you splash Green:

Tarmogoyf
Maelstrom Pulse

If you are building on a budget and cant afford to splash, I suggest you pack as many Phyrexian Arenas, Tombstalkers, Nantuko Shades, and Dark Rituals as you can.

neoryujin
08-08-2011, 09:25 AM
For some time now, I've been trying to build a funny version of this deck. It includes (not a complete list):

Stoppers:
3-4 Ensnaring Bridge

Discarders:
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Raven's Crime
4 Blightning
Thoughtseize
Burning Inquiry
Persecute
Anvil of Bogardan
Bottomless Pit
(or
Necrogen Mists
)

Combos:
4 Liliana's Caress
1 Megrim
2-3 Quest for the Nihil Stone
2-3 The Rack

Considerable cards:
Price of Progress
Words of War (to keep a low card count in your hand. See Ensnaring Bridge)

First, I found some cards to be bad as well, but the combos are so delicious ;)
(i.e. Liliana's Caress / Megrim + Burning Inquiry / Blightning :).

Second, I try to use no creatures at all, so as to make dead cards out of their creature removal (which will be good targets for our discarders...)

Third, this deck lacks protection for our enchanments / artifacts, so this probably needs blue splash for Force of Will to be competitive ... (but since this is more of a fun combo deck, I'd reconsider before investing $250-300 for a playset of Forces)

truls000
08-10-2011, 02:28 PM
Deck is re-constructed, see first post!

truls000
08-10-2011, 02:37 PM
You may wish to look into instant speed discard spells like Funeral Charm as they are effective when your opponent only has one card in hand. If it's not an instant, it's gone.

Another suggestion would be Raven's Crime. This card is straight up golden for me late game, turning useless lands into recurring discard.

Also, considering you're looking at effectively killing them with damage, I would go with Oona's Prowler as it's essentially a faster clock than Hippy

Thanks for the tip on the Funeral Charm, genious!

jancz
08-10-2011, 02:59 PM
I had a similar deck Idea however it revolved around U/B instead of Monoblack.

So here are a few cards from that deck to consider.
Augur of Skulls
1 card for 2 Discard. you could run him in a creature heavier build so he doesn't soak up too many lightning bolts before you can activate him. He can also chump block late game.
Wistful Thinking
The card that inspired the deck. You can drop 8 damage on an opponent with 1 discard damage source out for 3 mana and 16 with 2. Its practically game ending.
Urza's Guilt
Pretty much the best finisher we have. Deals 10 damage at most 8 at least (since they draw the 2 cards first). It is symmetrical though but I think 10 damage lets it be played
Recoil
Great at handling whatever ails you at the time.
Lim-dul's Vault
Possibly the best way to look for a liliana's caress short of splashing white for Enlightened tutor

KobeBryan
08-10-2011, 04:54 PM
Hi everyone. Thanks for all the feed backs, thumbs up! I have now re-designed the whole strategy and exchanged lots of the cards due to all the informative feedbacks and more studying.

My current changes:

// Early game (turn 1-4)
4x Hymn to Tourach - 1 card for 2 card discard
4x Wrench Mind - 1 card for 2 card discard
2x Cry of Contrition - Haunt your own creatures for 'protection' or use in combo with Doom Blade.
2x Hypnotic Specter - Use as both blocker against flying and to discard to The Rack and Nyx.

// Mid game (turn 3-5)
4x Phyrexian Arena - Don't play until 4-5th round, else it sucks to mutch life form you.
4x The Rack - The discard spells (8x 2card discard, 4x 1card discard, 2 creatures) mekes this a consistently 'free' damage every turn. If you get 2 Rack's on the battlefield, its game over for the opponent.
2x Obliterator - Slows down and removes anoing enchanments/artifacts.

//Late game (turn 4-7)
2x Sewer Nemesis - Late game beast, all the discard spells (builds upp opponents graveyard) makes him at least 6/6, the hi pumps himself when opponent casts spells. Is vulnerable to graveyard removal, therefore only x2.
4x Nyxathid - Play him in mid/late game and he becomes atleast 5/5.

// Response cards (Instant)
4x Doom Blade - A must have, to clear the battlefield in, especialy in early game and against flyer's.
4x Funeral Charm - Play it in opponent's turn, when he plays a spell (thats NOT an instant) to make him discard it first.

// Mana
16x Swamp
4x Dark Ritual
4x Wasteland - Remove opponent's needed non-basic lands, slow him down.


//Side Board, exchange with Doom Blade
3x Vampire Hexmage - Response to Planeswalkers
4x Go for the Throat - Response to black creature decks
4x Tormod's Crypt - Response to dredge/graveyard decks
4x Extirpate - Response to spell decks/combo decks


Take out wrenched mind. Use inquisition of kolizek.

neoryujin
08-11-2011, 06:01 AM
I had a similar deck Idea however it revolved around U/B instead of Monoblack.

So here are a few cards from that deck to consider.
Augur of Skulls
1 card for 2 Discard. you could run him in a creature heavier build so he doesn't soak up too many lightning bolts before you can activate him. He can also chump block late game.
Wistful Thinking
The card that inspired the deck. You can drop 8 damage on an opponent with 1 discard damage source out for 3 mana and 16 with 2. Its practically game ending.
Urza's Guilt
Pretty much the best finisher we have. Deals 10 damage at most 8 at least (since they draw the 2 cards first). It is symmetrical though but I think 10 damage lets it be played
Recoil
Great at handling whatever ails you at the time.
Lim-dul's Vault
Possibly the best way to look for a liliana's caress short of splashing white for Enlightened tutor

Wistful Thinking, brilliant! Urza's Guilt, would be too, were it not for the 4-mana CMC. Recoil is removal tech, and Lim-dul's Vault definitely helps to find the combo pieces. The deck color also alligns with the most broken counterspell ever. All in all, nice idea. I'm only less inclined to play it because of its higher average CMC than my above version with Black/Red (and the fact that I don't intend to buy Force of Willies for this kind of deck :)

How would Quest for the Nihil Stone fare in your deck? Do you have other countermeasures against creature swarms (like Ensnaring Bridge) ? I used to have the Ensnaring Bridge + Nettling Imp / Norritt combo for recurring creature removal :), but dropped it later on, because of my opponents' removal against Nettling Imp / Norritt.


EDIT:


4x Funeral Charm (http://deckbox.org/mtg/Funeral%20Charm) - Play it in opponent's turn, when he plays a spell (thats NOT an instant) to make him discard it first.


How does this work? WHEN he plays the spell, then it's on the stack, so he can't discard it anymore, since it's no longer a card in his hand.
If you meant "BEFORE he plays a spell" (for example in his upkeep step), then it would make more sense, at least for me.

truls000
08-11-2011, 04:35 PM
EDIT:
How does this work? WHEN he plays the spell, then it's on the stack, so he can't discard it anymore, since it's no longer a card in his hand.
If you meant "BEFORE he plays a spell" (for example in his upkeep step), then it would make more sense, at least for me.

My bad, wrong use of words.. Exchange WHEN with IN HIS DRAW STEP :wink:

android
08-11-2011, 04:49 PM
You want to use the instant speed at different times depending on who you're playing and how many cards they have in hand. Of course not being a targeted discard, it's most effective when they only have one or two cards in hand or to bait a counter if you have another targeted discard spell.

If they have one card i hand and they are blue, you might want to cast it during their end step or your own upkeep. If they have no cards in hand, you probably want to cast it right after they draw.

You need to optimize your timing to squeeze the most out of it.

I would probably keep my count at 3 or less and for Raven's Crime, I would go to 2 or less because it's going to be most effective late game where hands are depleted and you draw useless lands.

truls000
08-11-2011, 05:16 PM
Take out wrenched mind. Use inquisition of kolizek.

Yes, you are so right. But I think Ill rather exchange 2x Cry of Contrition with 2xInquisition of Kozilek. I am alto looking into Unmake for SB'ing.

blaat
08-11-2011, 05:55 PM
I still have a non-finished UB pet deck.
It looks like some sort of Team america built.

I use the following (rough list of) cards:

3-4x Raven's Crime
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughtseize or others

4x Force of Will
3-4x Daze
4x Mental Misstep
0-2 Spell snare

Xx creature removal
0-2 Recoil

4x Tombstalker
0-3 Avatar of Will
3-4 The Rack


The avatar of will is actually pretty nice.
Has the pitch-to-fow effect for the early game and lategame tombstalker 5-8
On paper it looks like junk, but when testing this deck, I could cast it exactly when I wanted it to.
Sometimes you need to Raven's Crime away their last card first before casting the avatar.

A good land count and a 1-2 mana curve let's you pitch all excess lands for raven's crime.
And since it's likely to run 4 of them, it's not bad to delve one or two away with tombstalker if you need to.

Recoil is actually a nice out against some problem permanents

truls000
08-11-2011, 05:59 PM
I had a similar deck Idea however it revolved around U/B instead of Monoblack.

So here are a few cards from that deck to consider.
Augur of Skulls
1 card for 2 Discard. you could run him in a creature heavier build so he doesn't soak up too many lightning bolts before you can activate him. He can also chump block late game.
Wistful Thinking
The card that inspired the deck. You can drop 8 damage on an opponent with 1 discard damage source out for 3 mana and 16 with 2. Its practically game ending.
Urza's Guilt
Pretty much the best finisher we have. Deals 10 damage at most 8 at least (since they draw the 2 cards first). It is symmetrical though but I think 10 damage lets it be played
Recoil
Great at handling whatever ails you at the time.
Lim-dul's Vault
Possibly the best way to look for a liliana's caress short of splashing white for Enlightened tutor

Thanks jancz. There are some good cards there, but I dont thil Ill splash it with any color. Then Ill be wounreble to wateland (duallands).

Kinderschreck
08-11-2011, 06:00 PM
Some cards that came into my mind when I saw your deck:

Strongarm Tactics (Nice mid to early game, where it can deal up to 6 damage with a liliana!)
Chains of Mephistopheles (No more drawing! Makes most drawspells completly useless.)
Nezumi Shortfang (not much to say, a nice option to keep your opponents hand card size low)
Scepter of Fugue (the same as Nezumi Shortfang but without the damage option. Not so easily removed as the Nezumi Shortfang).
Bottomless Pit (When you have what you need, this card is just amazing. Discard at random is always a pain in the *ss).
Cunning Lethemancer (Nice card, to keep your opponents hand size down).
Necrogen Mists (A bit weaker than Cunning Lethemancer, since your opponent can first let the ability of The Rack go on the stack, before discarding).
Megrim (You might have a card with this effect already, but 2-3 of those increase the chance for you to have such an effect on the board).
Specter's Shroud (Turns each of your creatures into a Hypnotic Specter).

truls000
08-13-2011, 01:11 PM
Updated, exchanged Pyrexian Arena with Dark Confidant ++

truls000
08-17-2011, 11:53 AM
Big update, deck is splashed with white!

See post the first post!

Kinderschreck
08-22-2011, 11:59 PM
Swords is the worst idear ever...Play Path if you can! Your not making that much damage, that you can let your opponent get 5-6 for 2 Mana or 8 for 3 Mana.
Think Serra Avanger is quit useless...You can drop it first in turn 4 and then it's not an autowin but can be easily removed.