[Deck] Golem Stompy

[Maveric78f]

Another stompy deck, because nobody understands how Chalice decks cannot perform in such a 1-CC infested metagame.

Facts and conclusions :
Fact n°1: Every blue deck plays 4*Mental Misstep and it is not rare that non blue decks play also Mental Misstep.
Conclusion n°1: 1-CC spells are important
Conclusion n°2: If you don't play 1-CC spells, all those decks have 4 useless cards (except for pitching them to FoW)
Fact n°2: Since the edition of opposite fetchlands, most decks play more than 8 fetchlands, often 10. Green Sun's Zenith, Stoneforge Mystic, Natural Order, Knight of the Reliquary, Entomb and Intuition are also popular shufflers.
Conclusion n°3: It's good to prevent your opponent from shuffling.
Fact n°3: Regular creatures (mostly Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary) are bigger than Stompy creatures.
Conclusion n°4: Find a way to reliably deal with creatures. Reliably means "Oblivion Ring is crap".
Conclusion n°5: Play equipments. Play Stoneforge Mystic.
Fact n°4: Chalice decks rely on topdecks without any library manipulation.
Conclusion n°6: Avoid playing cards that are bad alone. Synergies are strong when it's a bonus from an already powerful impact on the game state. Synergies are cool when it makes you play 2 bad cards. And coolness is the enemy of magic.
Conclusion n°7: This includes lands. Try to play utilitarian lands as much as possible.
Fact n°5: Qasali Pridemages are everywhere. Sometimes a virtual 8 in a single deck thanks to Green Sun's Zenith.
Conclusion n°8: Do not rely on a single artifact to win.
Conclusion n°9: Related to conclusion n°5: do not expect the combos to make you win.
Conclusion n°10: Play Phyrexian Revoker to disrupt Qasali Pridemage (and Pernicious Deed and Aether Vial and Noble Hierarch).
Fact n°6: Golems are awesome.
Conclusion n°11: Play Golems.

Because Chalice Aggro is not inconsistent enough, I had to add a tribal theme. Yes, I know what I said about synergies. The fact is that Golems are awesome. And Conclusion n°11 overrules all other conclusions.

Actually, when you search magiccards.info database, you notice that there is only 1 good castable golem: Lodestone Golem. He's a great beater and control element, even though it eats all the hate, from Swords to Plowshares to Qasali Pridemage and Lightning Bolt and it is killed by Wild Nacatl. However, the best reason to play a Golem theme, is Blade Splicer. For 2W, you get 2 creatures with first strike and a 4/4 power/toughness total. It gives your 5/3 Lodestone Golem first strike as well. The other golems I play are not really Golems, they are simply what you decide them to be. Mutavaults (Conclusion n°7) and Phyrexian Metamorph (Conclusion n°4).

The rest of the deck is pretty straightforward.

Regarding the creatures, 4 Stoneforge Mystic are mandatory in a white chalice deck (Conclusion n°5). Even though I play Stoneforge Mystic, I decided to play Leonin Arbiter over Aven Mindcensor (Conclusion n°3), because it makes it easier to play it 1 turn earlier. It's also much more efficient at cutting fetches, if played early enough. Phyrexian Revoker is the last creature I play MD (Conclusion n°10).

Regarding the disruption package. 4 Chalice of the Void are included (Conclusion n°1). Since, the deck is quite heavy on the mana denial, 3 Trinisphere are played. Not 4 because it's useless in multiple.

4 tutorable equipments are available: Batterskull and Umezawa's Jitte obviously. The choice of the swords is generally more subject to debate. Sword of Feast and Famine: the land untap effect is great in a Stompy deck which requires a lot of mana. The protection colors G and B are the best since green enables to handle legacy's biggest beaters and B provides, besides W, the best creature removals to be used on an equipped creature. The other sword had to be complementary on its colors and Sword of Fire and Ice is known to be the sword with the best effects. Drawing is very important in a chalice deck and some kind of creature removal is also appreciated. The Chalice of the Void is made up for the lack of W protection, protecting our creatures from W creature removal (namely Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile to a lesser extent).

28 slots are dedicated to the manabase, but following Conclusion n°7, almost all of them are either acceleration or utilitarian. 4 Mox Diamond and Ancient Tombs are the acceleration package. City of traitor would be a burden in this deck since it's difficult to develop properly with only 3 manas. We do not count on playing turn 1 Trinisphere in this deck. It can happen of course, but we prefer focusing on playing turn 1 2CC bombs, such as Chalice of the Void, Stoneforge Mystic or Leonin Arbiter. We play also 15 utilitarian lands:
- 3*Karakas to deal with those fatties cheated into play: Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, or Iona, Shield of Emeria. As we need only 1 white mana to play all the deck, and as we play Mox Diamond, we do not fear that much drawing into several Karakas. I will maybe try to play 4 of them.
- 4*Wasteland and 4*Rishadan Port: to add more mana disruption.
- 4*Mutavault: they are golems and that’s the reason why I keep them in the deck in place of Mishra's Factory. However, Conclusion n°6 teaches me to stick with Mishra's Factory. I’m testing them right now…
Finally, 5 Plains are completing the mana base.

The SB is highly experimental, so that I won’t comment it for the moment.



Mana:
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Mutavault
3 Karakas
5 Plains

Creatures:
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Blade Splicer
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Leonin Arbiter
3 Phyrexian Metamorph

Stuff:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull

Sideboard:
SB: 2 Retribution of the Meek
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Smokestack
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 2 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph

[Nessaja]

Blade Splicer and conclusion 6 don't mix. I think something better can be found for that spot.

[Maveric78f]

Blade Splicer and conclusion 6 don't mix. I think something better can be found for that spot.
4/4 for 3 is good.
2 creatures including 1 with first strike is good for equipments (especially Jitte).
I really find it good. Am I sick?

[hyperchord24]

You have 10 creatures with cc of 2. I know chalice stompy decks like to run Revoker, but do you ever find yourself wanting to chalice for 2? Also, Lodestone doesn't play nice with 11 spells in your deck. Do you ever find that to be a problem? Is the ability to have a 2/2 first striking mutavault better than having a 3/3+ you would get with multiple factories?

[Maveric78f]

You have 10 creatures with cc of 2. I know chalice stompy decks like to run Revoker, but do you ever find yourself wanting to chalice for 2?
Rarely. Only if I play against Reanimator, or if I have a comfortable board position. But the point of Chalice here is definitely to play it @1.


Also, Lodestone doesn't play nice with 11 spells in your deck. Do you ever find that to be a problem?
No, because Lodestone is already on the top of my curve. If I played my first, it means that I can play everything else. If I play a second, third or a copy of him, it means that I dominate enough the board to lock the opponent.


Is the ability to have a 2/2 first striking mutavault better than having a 3/3+ you would get with multiple factories?
The factories are probably better. But it's still an open question.

[hyperchord24]

Arbiter completely negates any advantage mystic gives you doesn't it?

[Nihil Credo]

4/4 for 3 is good.
There are quite a few 4/4s for 3 in Magic. What is the last time you saw one in Legacy?

It's not an idea that excites me, but the better 3-drop for your needs might be Etched Champion. With Qasali Pridemage as the #1 artifact hate, and Chalice-able Nature's Claim as the second, you're less likely to get 2-for-1'd in combat, and he's very good both at stopping creatures and at carrying a Sword through the red zone.

[Maveric78f]

Arbiter means I have to pay 2 additional manas if I want to search for the equipment. I have to pay for it only if it resolves and if I need it. It has not been that much of a problem for the moment. Also, you know your hand, so that you can choose to play those cards in the best order. Just an advice: if you can play an arbiter at the opponent's turn 0, just do it. It can give you the game alone.

[Maveric78f]

There are quite a few 4/4s for 3 in Magic. What is the last time you saw one in Legacy?
It's not a vanilla creature neither, contrarily to Master of Etherium, which I would never play in its place for instance.
And I see a 4/4 for 4 getting played currently.


It's not an idea that excites me, but the better 3-drop for your needs might be Etched Champion. With Qasali Pridemage as the #1 artifact hate, and Chalice-able Nature's Claim as the second, you're less likely to get 2-for-1'd in combat, and he's very good both at stopping creatures and at carrying a Sword through the red zone.
I can't rely on Metalcraft. But anyway, I don't like Etched Champion. It does not kill anything. I don't get exactly your 2-for-1-in-combat argument. Blade Splicer is indeed 2 for 1. If you're afraid of getting both creatures down at the same time, it's still 1 card for 1 card. On the contrary, removing Metalcraft in combat can easily be 2 for 1 with Etched Champion.

Ps : and don't push me or I'll play Solemn Simulacrum for my Golem theme.

[Nessaja]

4/4 for 3 is good.
2 creatures including 1 with first strike is good for equipments (especially Jitte).
I really find it good. Am I sick?
I think it's still the weakest 3 drop compared to played 3 drops in legacy though...

[hyperchord24]

I would much rather play glowrider than wait for turn 4+ to drop lodestone. At that point, I'd rather play a baneslayer (after I've dropped additional disruption). I hate it when people say "how is this deck better than this other similar deck," or "Just play this similar deck instead," but this IS very similar to angel stompy and they use things like mirran crusader, glowrider, baneslayer and aven mincensor.

I'd rather have a turn 2 batterskull than a turn 1 arbiter. Ideally I'd want to play a turn 1 arbiter followed by a turn 3 batterskull, but I can't and all I've done is clogged my hand with mystics that I want to play.

[Maveric78f]

I think it's still the weakest 3 drop compared to played 3 drops in legacy though...

Is it worse than Vendilion Clique? Aven Mindcensor? Beast Within? Oblivion Ring? Edric? Rhox War Monk (not played anymore but it was played a lot not so long ago)? It does not seem that clear to me (it is not clear it's better neither, they are just different cards in a different deck).


I would much rather play glowrider than wait for turn 4+ to drop lodestone. At that point, I'd rather play a baneslayer (after I've dropped additional disruption). I hate it when people say "how is this deck better than this other similar deck," or "Just play this similar deck instead," but this IS very similar to angel stompy and they use things like mirran crusader, glowrider, baneslayer and aven mincensor.

Did you get offended because I posted this deck? And outside from the Angel Stompy thread? Some other players might be offended because I posted it outside from the MUD Stompy thread.

Moreover, your arguments are to say the least very strange. Glowrider should be dropped turn 1 and Lodestone Golem turn 4+ ? Also Glowrider does not disrupt in the same way. It's much more effective to disrupt non artifact spells than non creature spells. After that, you're comparing Lodestone Golem with Baneslayer, but did you notice that Golem was only 4CC ? Did you make both comparisons because you noticed as I do that Golem fits both roles?

My bet in this deck is not to play spells with double W. Mirran Crusader is another kind-of 4/4 for 3 but that costs actually more something like 2WW in a stompy deck. It's a good creature and I see why it is good with equipments, but it's double W. Also I explained why I preferred Arbiter to Aven in this deck. I exposed arguments. Maybe, you hate when people expose arguments as I did, but it is generally how people discuss. Also, I never claimed it was better. I claim it is part of a reflection that is reasonable to have.


I'd rather have a turn 2 batterskull than a turn 1 arbiter. Ideally I'd want to play a turn 1 arbiter followed by a turn 3 batterskull, but I can't and all I've done is clogged my hand with mystics that I want to play.
This is very close minded. Let's try some hands. We consider that I'm on the play, so that I have no idea what my opponent plays.

Hand 1: Mox Diamond, plains*2, mystic, arbiter (I mulled to 5)
This is probably the closer call but I'd still play Arbiter, because if I mulled to 5, I want to have the play that is potentially the most broken, even if it can potentially be a 2/2 bear that prevents me from playing my single other card (against Merfolk for instance).
The concurrent play of mystic on Batterskull, is denied by fetch + STP.
Also, I prefer the first option if my opponent has FoW, since a second turn Arbiter is less effective, although a second turn mystic is still as effective.

Hand 2: Mox Diamond, plains*2, Rishadan Port, mystic, arbiter, trini
Without any doubt, I'd go for a turn 1 arbiter into a turn 2 trinisphere, even if it will cost me 5 manas later to play mystic.

Hand 3: Mox Diamond, ancient tomb, plains, mystic, arbiter, Blade Splicer, SoFI
Once more, Arbiter is my first choice, I just need a land topdeck to play mystic. I can wait by playing my other creatures.

Hand 4: Mox Diamond, plains*2, arbiter, mystic*2, Lodestone Golem
Here ok, mystic is the best. The arbiter plan looks too dangerous when we have another game plan as effective as an equipped Batterskull.

[rupus]

Precursor golem is a pretty good golem. At least in Vintage (but Slash Panther is also good in Vintage so that might mean nothing). Flagstones of Trokair might be something to consider as well. Also, I think that Stompy decks already have a rough time with mana even playing 8 sol lands + whatever else and you are only playing 4. Is that ever a problem? Why not just add in some cities and maybe some Crucibles (you already have wastes so that gives you the potential to wastelock).

[Maveric78f]

Precursor Golem is good with Trinisphere, but it's crap with Chalice, since the copies won't be countered. Also in vintage there are very few creature removal as compared to legacy. Moreover, at 5 I want a real bomb.

I removed the flagstones when I started playing arbiter over aven mindcensor.

About the 2-mana lands, it's okay so far, I don't necessarily need to play on turn 1. And I'm not sure cities would help since I need mana longer than my 2 first turns.

I don't like crucible in a Stompy deck since it does not fit the primary game plan, it's only strong against control and against control Smokestack is 100 times better.

[Finn]

Mav, good to see you designing again. I have a silly golem deck that is strictly casual. But I have to say that I am using many of these same cards, but including Precursor Golem and Shelter. Lots of fun. I like Blade Splicer because most removal in Legacy is spot removal and Splicer makes the opponent choose whether to hit the Splicer or the token. I am happy either way.

Also, I have Flickerwisp in my deck, and I am very happy with it. It sorta does the same job you have Metamorph for, though I think you have the better card for competitive. I hope this goes well, and I hope that I can contribute in some further fashion.

[Maveric78f]

Mav, good to see you designing again. I have a silly golem deck that is strictly casual. But I have to say that I am using many of these same cards, but including Precursor Golem and Shelter. Lots of fun.
Lol. That's definitely not compliant with Conclusion n°6.


I like Blade Splicer because most removal in Legacy is spot removal and Splicer makes the opponent choose whether to hit the Splicer or the token. I am happy either way.
Yeah. I don't claim, it's the best card in the deck, but I keep looking for a better option and I fail to find something relevant. For starter, as I already said many times, I don't want WW, I don't want it to be more than 4CC (4 is okay, 5 is too much). It has to be a creature (or generating creatures, Elspeth for 3W would be good). I'd also prefer it to be non artifact, but I'm not definitive on this requirement. I searched the Angel Stompy thread for inspiration and I found (thanks to TheSleeper):
Glowrider: Creatures are what we fear the most and Glowrider is almost as disruptive for us than for most decks in the metagame.
Soltari Champion: Can't block.
Apex Hawks: Seriously. No.
Aven Mindcensor: Already discussed. Not good enough against fetches. It's still not a bad creature to play in addition to arbiter.
Aven Riftwatcher: A creature that dies alone (and fast). No thanks.
Nightwind Glider: Protection from black is not good enough.
Pegasus Charger: Too weak.
Stonecloaker: Trick maker, but very mana intensive. It's not completely stupid though.
Thermal Glider: Protection from red is not good enough.
Glittering Lion: Inferior to Etched Champion
Etched Champion: If it was not conditional on Metalcraft, I would be less reluctant. It's still something possible.
Kor Hookmaster: It looks very situational.
Kor Sanctifiers: For the moment, I don't feel we need non-creature removal.
PeaceKeeper: we definitely want to attack.
Porcelain Legionnaire: If Blade Splicer is bad, then Porcelain Legionnaire is real crap.
Windborn Muse: Nice one. Absolutely in the theme of the deck. Probably my first call if I ever want to replace Blade Splicer.
Ethersworn Canonist: The effect is too narrow to be played MD. Also it's an artifact.
Spellskite: Nice at protecting our other more important permanents, or creatures that we want to equip. How does it work with protection granted by swords? Is it possible to protect all you board from black spells because Spellskite is equipped with SoFaF? I think it can't and that's a big limitation of it's ability. Also, Jitte does not get counters when equipped to Spellskite.
Blinding Souleater: Probably not good enough, when creatures for W have the same effect. Still, it would be effective both as mana denial and as big fattie neutralizer.
Moltensteel Dragon: Really too painful and still too weak to protect us from the biggest creatures in the metagame (another 4/4 for 4 that is played in some decks of the metagame). Definitely inferior to Blade Splicer.
Dispense Justice: Not a creature, but it might be a good way to deal with annoying creatures.
Indomitable Archangel: requires WW, but looks interesting enough to give it credit. First, the equipped artifact creatures will remain equipped. Second, with it in play, we still have a good creature to equip: the archangel.


Also, I have Flickerwisp in my deck, and I am very happy with it. It sorta does the same job you have Metamorph for, though I think you have the better card for competitive. I hope this goes well, and I hope that I can contribute in some further fashion.
Metamorph is so great that I want to play a 4th one MD. In decreasing order of frequency of its use.
- it doubles/triples the Lodestone Golem and locks the opponent
- it copies Batterskull (either yours or opponent's) for 3 and for 3, you can bounce it to copy something else later in the game.
- it deals with legendary creatures, even Progenitus, and Jitte.
- it copies opposing creatures that could overwhelm my little defense (stoneforge/Sphinx of the Steel Wind/Terravore/Countryside Crusher)

It's just sad it's inefficient against Knight of the Reliquary. So it does much more than simply triggering another time the CiP triggers. And also, it does not require WW.

[Maveric78f]

Back, just to add Intrepid Hero as a possible replacement for Blade splicer.

[hyperchord24]

^Retribution of the meek is better since it gets rid of progenitus and emrakul. Besides, it's very narrow to take up space in the main deck.

[Maveric78f]

^Retribution of the meek is better since it gets rid of progenitus and emrakul. Besides, it's very narrow to take up space in the main deck.
1/ Progenitus is not an problem without any solution. I can gain life, and MD Metamorph gets rid of it.
2/ Intrepid Hero gets rid of Emrakul, but that's not the point actually. Emrakul is barely a problem when you play 3*Karakas and 3*Metamorph.
3/ Retribution of the Meek kills my Batterskulled Germ, my lodestone golems, and most of my sword-equipped creatures. Intrepid Hero kills what has to be killed.
4/ Intrepid Hero can be equipped. Equipped with Batterskull, I think it becomes very difficult to be killed in combat since it gets vigilance, it can strike, block and activate in the same turn.
5/ As I tested the deck, I can tell that its main problem is to deal with bigger creatures (knight, tarmo, terravore, exalted Nacatls, ...). Intrepid Hero solves this. It is also quite effective at killing opposing Batterskulled germs or sword-equipped creatures. It does not look that narrow actually.

Swarm decks are less popular now (probably because of Batterskull). Only Merfolks, I can think of. And even merfolks are quite fast 4/4s.

Combo and control are usually quite well handled by the deck with all the taxes they have to pay for every spell. I've seen only once a resolved planeswalker against the deck (Elspeth) and it has not been enough for them to win.