[BLUE BALLS] Ken Nagle shows killed Snow Duals from Commander

[Gheizen64]

Apparently this photo come from Ken Nagle's binder. This show they were at least testing those cards. If they actually are considered for print is another matter. People are actually speculating they are in the next "Commander" precon since the code for the expansion doesn't fit anything we actually know. Keep in mind, however, that it's pretty likely those were playtested for the old Commander precon but removed from it before they got into print.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122442&d=1312913607

Time to dust off those into the North and Scrying sheets?

EDIT: the source is Facebook. Since i don't have Facebook, i can't verify it. There's a topic about this on salvation http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=346013

[Mr.C]

Apparently this photo come from Ken Nagle's binder. This show they were at least testing those cards. If they actually are considered for print is another matter. People are actually speculating they are in the new "Commander" precon since the code for the expansion doesn't fit anything we actually know.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122442&d=1312913607

That would be totally awesome, but, does legacy need snow duals? I mean, they print snow duals, then what? Ban regular duals?

It's messy.

Although, shit, Scrying Sheets would be awesome! And so would Skred!

[Koby]

So would Icequake.

[Gheizen64]

So would Icequake.

Black has already an almost strictly better option in Choking Sands

Also i don't see the need for them to ban regular duals. Running 8 duals isn't much better than running 4 duals +4 fetches, especially now that we have all combination of fetches.

[Koby]

Ya, goes to show you how bad some snow themes are.

If this is true, then I'm looking forward to Frostland, the snow equivalent of Wasteland.

[trivial_matters]

Interesting. Confidential, eh?

Would be quite something if it turns out to be legit.

And yes, something like this would be good for Legacy.

EDIT: Source?

[keys]

These were in the playtest for Commander and were shown to the public at Gencon only because there wasn't a chance of them actually seeing print. The reason no new duals were printed on the Commander set was because Command Tower fulfilled the same role and could be put in all the decks, and let them make 4 additional new cards instead of devoting rare slots to lands.

[Gheizen64]

The part about "Rare slot" doesn't make any sense, we're talking about cards in a precon, not a booster. Also, they may have been shown in public, but wizards still didn't say anything official about it, so it's also possible they were really confidential stuff.

I don't see why we should take word of a random poster for gold either. If WotC don't speak, the photo is actually all we have now.

[rupus]

Ya, goes to show you how bad some snow themes are.

If this is true, then I'm looking forward to Frostland, the snow equivalent of Wasteland.

Force of Snow?
2uu
Snow Instant
You may remove 1 snow card in your hand rather then pay Force of Snow's mana cost.

Maybe they will try to revive vintage too.

Snow Lotus
0
Snow Artifact
Tap Sac: Add 3 mana of any 1 color to your mana pool. This mana may be used to pay for snow costs (i.e. Scrying Sheets)

Bazaar of Anchorage
Snow Land
Tap: Draw two cards then discard 3. (maybe it could even be discard 3 unless you discard 2 snow cards)

[Gheizen64]

Force of Snow?
2uu
Snow Instant
You may remove 1 snow card in your hand rather then pay Force of Snow's mana cost.

Maybe they will try to revive vintage too.

Snow Lotus
0
Snow Artifact
Tap Sac: Add 3 mana of any 1 color to your mana pool. This mana may be used to pay for snow costs (i.e. Scrying Sheets)

Bazaar of Anchorage
Snow Land
Tap: Draw two cards then discard 3. (maybe it could even be discard 3 unless you discard 2 snow cards)

The fact is that Snow duals can be printed because even if you could actually run 8 in a deck, running fetches and 4 duals is still usually the better option. Other card doesn't works that way.

[rupus]

The fact is that Snow duals can be printed because even if you could actually run 8 in a deck, running fetches and 4 duals is still usually the better option. Other card doesn't works that way.

Is that true though? We've never had the opportunity to try. Shock lands =/= duals 5-8 by a longshot.

[2Rach]

There wouldn't be a point in banning the original duals when these would be printed. It's not like more duals will break the format...

Anyway, I don't see this happening for another ten years, they'll reprint Shocks before they print these. Twenty-ish years(mid 90s, right?) is a good break for the original collectors to get over the revised list being abolished.

[[sic]]

That card is functionally identical with Tundra, obviously printing it will be against the Reserve policy. Who the fuck is Ken Nagle?

[Mr.C]

;574754']That card is functionally identical with Tundra, obviously printing it will be against the Reserve policy. Who the fuck is Ken Nagle?

No, it's not. I can't tutor for a Tundra with Into the North; likewise, I can't put a Tundra into my hand with Sheets.

I would *love* to see these. And I've got my 40 duals, and tons of other shit.

[(nameless one)]

Start Hoarding Scrying Sheets y'all!

But back on being serious, while its not practical to run 8 duals of the same color along with fetchlands in 3 color decks, I could see 2 color decks doing it, such as a Landstill deck.

[[sic]]

Why would anyone stock up on garbage cards like Into the North or Scrying Sheets? Snow duals exist only in your imagination. And yes, they are functionally identical (lands that count as Island and Plains with no drawback)

[Final Fortune]

Bring on the Snow Walk!

[mchainmail]

Start Hoarding Scrying Sheets y'all!

But back on being serious, while its not practical to run 8 duals of the same color along with fetchlands in 3 color decks, I could see 2 color decks doing it, such as a Landstill deck.

You would give up on Brainstorm for these?

[trivial_matters]

Yeah, and Top too, even though it's not seeing much play at the moment. Sylvan Library also comes to mind.

[Mr.C]

;574764']Why would anyone stock up on garbage cards like Into the North or Scrying Sheets? Snow duals exist only in your imagination. And yes, they are functionally identical (lands that count as Island and Plains with no drawback)

The definition of functionally identical:

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness."

Snow Tundra is different than Tundra. Heck, depending on the deck, I'd play Snow Duals over original duals.

[Gheizen64]

The definition of functionally identical:

"A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness."

Snow Tundra is different than Tundra. Heck, depending on the deck, I'd play Snow Duals over original duals.

Actually Snow is a Supertype. Seems strange they didn't include it, since it rule also out Legendary, but i guess it's a typo since Legendary is a pretty significant difference and make no sense for them to not include it in the "functional identical" definition.

EDIT: ok supertype isn't included simply because it didn't exist in 1998. But i guess it would be included today.

[Tacosnape]

While I doubt it happens and I doubt there's any truth to it (Though I said this about enemy fetches before Zendikar), it's a highly interesting concept for Legacy, for two reasons:

1. It completely gets around the main problem of the reserve list limiting the growth of Legacy.

2. Depending on the printing circumstance, it could give Legacy's biggest competitor, Modern, Dual Lands.

[lordofthepit]

Apparently this photo come from Ken Nagle's binder. This show they were at least testing those cards. If they actually are considered for print is another matter. People are actually speculating they are in the next "Commander" precon since the code for the expansion doesn't fit anything we actually know. Keep in mind, however, that it's pretty likely those were playtested for the old Commander precon but removed from it before they got into print.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122442&d=1312913607

Time to dust off those into the North and Scrying sheets?

EDIT: the source is Facebook. Since i don't have Facebook, i can't verify it. There's a topic about this on salvation http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=346013

The 2010 copyright date suggests that this was a Commander playtest, and it's consistent with the fact that Aaron Forsythe was asking whether the community wanted to see snow duals (which was met with a resounding negative response). According to the (now closed) MTGS thread, Ken Nagle often shows playtest cards for things that didn't make the cut.

[Koby]

The 2010 copyright date suggests that this was a Commander playtest, and it's consistent with the fact that Aaron Forsythe was asking whether the community wanted to see snow duals (which was met with a resounding negative response). According to the (now closed) MTGS thread, Ken Nagle often shows playtest cards for things that didn't make the cut.

This is why public opinion polls are flawed.

Our Market Research Shows That Market Research Polls Lead To Broken Planeswalkers And Equiment Tutors.

[lorddotm]

This is why public opinion polls are flawed.

Our Market Research Shows That Market Research Polls Lead To Broken Planeswalkers And Equiment Tutors.

People are too stupid to know what they want.

My trump card examples are Boehner and Cantor.

[(nameless one)]

I'm curious, how do you make a Tundra snow-covered? I mean aren't Tundras snow covered anyways? Do you guys even know where the world's Tundra located?

[Koby]

I'm curious, how do you make a Tundra snow-covered? I mean aren't Tundras snow covered anyways? Do you guys even know where the world's Tundra located?

Cool question. I do nominate poxy14 to make the art tho.

[Gocho]

I'm curious, how do you make a Tundra snow-covered? I mean aren't Tundras snow covered anyways? Do you guys even know where the world's Tundra located?

Not at summer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenland_scoresby-sydkapp2_hg.jpg

[Squirrel]

This is crazy. I wanted to go to bed and now i had to read this and the salvation thread. the source is reliable. I can't sleep now. I hope i can fetch those lands in my decks some day...

Anyway, i think snow tundra is just the playtest name...

[Hanni]

If you look through the white sheet of paper, it looks like a basic Plains...

[Squirrel]

There definetly is a paper attached on a basic plains ( like a proxy), so this may simply be a bad joke...

I simply hope they test their cards that way..

[Koby]

If you look through the white sheet of paper, it looks like a basic Plains...

This is what playtest cards look like - a sticker attached to another card.

See also, Look At Me, I'm R&D

[Hanni]

Ah, ok.

EDIT: Also, why is this thread titled "The end has come?" If this isn't a rumor, shouldn't it be "Legacy Begins?"

[Gheizen64]

Ah, ok.

EDIT: Also, why is this thread titled "The end has come?" If this isn't a rumor, shouldn't it be "Legacy Begins?"

This is a legit rumor but as i said there's a strong possibility the card was playtested and then tossed aside.

I named it "The end is coming" because that's when crazy (in WotC terms) things start happening, you know, that sort of thing.

[Koby]

This is a legit rumor but as i said there's a strong possibility the card was playtested and then tossed aside.

I named it "The end is coming" because that's when crazy (in WotC terms) things start happening, you know, that sort of thing.

AKA

"The beginning of the end" Step

[dahcmai]

Damn, that kind of sucks to see one of those. I was hoping they might have actually wanted to do those. Seeing a playtest card for one kind of shuts down the idea they might have existed someday. I never knew that MTGS whined about making those. They sure have a serious amount of cry-babies if they hated that. Why would you not want these?


I do admit they would be practically useless if you already had duals. Not many decks any more really use a full set for three color decks and not even many two color decks would go up to a full 8. Actually, I can't think of one that would. Fetches are too useful. It would just be nice for all the people I know who can't afford to dish out the cash for the last few missing duals they need or the people who would love to play but really can't build much past Dredge and Merfolk due to the duals stifling the format.

Plus, can you imagine getting to have a 3 color Mighty Quinn with your Scrying sheets? That would rock. : )

[joemauer]

If they do one day print these awesome duals(which they should), then they should also print a snow covered wasteland to counter all these duals.

Tundras I believe don't have to be snowy. Tundras are Cold, Dry climates right?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Ha, my Scrying Sheets are already dusted off, suckers.

[Octopusman]

Dear lord I hope they print these.

I have been convinced that because of Wizard's stupid stance on the reserve list that eventually I will not be able to play my favorite game because no one plays it due to being too expensive.

I have duals but I would totally support the printing of these. More Legacy players, please! Please make cards that show you care about players that have been with the game for over a decade! Allow Legacy to thrive. It's not too difficult to do, even with the reserve list, as long as they can make cards like this.

These are so incredibly close to regular duals. I think that it's silly to think they'll just make snow everything. And I'm not sure how you can make something almost equally as optimal by adding seemingly meaningless drawbacks to it. For example, a LED that makes you lose 1 life as well on use would always be strictly inferior to the original LED.


This is the most exciting thing I have seen in a very long time! Like I said, I had given up hope that Wizards cares about the format I enjoy. I hope I'm wrong!

Edit:: Also, the more exciting thing is that cards like this will help grow the format and not whether or not Legacy "needs" these or how will these help existing decks, in my opinion.

[sdematt]

Again, I love duals lands, and I'd love to see these. 100%, even though I have regular/bb duals. Bring it!

-Matt

[boneclub24]

Hmm, if they come true, I could finally make Grw Stompy! Weee!

[Koby]

We should change the name of the thread to "[Wishful Thinking] Reserve List revoked".

[Gui]

Here's a problem to deal with: Decks with 8 duals of each type?

[Koby]

Here's a problem to deal with: Decks with 8 duals of each type?

So 80lands.dec?

Imagine Valakut with that kind of setup!

[thecrav]

I'm curious, how do you make a Tundra snow-covered? I mean aren't Tundras snow covered anyways? Do you guys even know where the world's Tundra located?
Not always. Check, for example, the first picture on wikipedia's article about tundras. (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Greenland_scoresby-sydkapp2_hg.jpg)


Not at summer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenland_scoresby-sydkapp2_hg.jpg

Summer Tundras!? This isn't the pimp thread! :P


Here's a problem to deal with: Decks with 8 duals of each type?

Many multi-color decks aren't even running four-of one dual, simply because of the thinning and shuffling ability of fetchlands.

[Greenpoe]

Here's a problem to deal with: Decks with 8 duals of each type?

I would laugh and proceed to win via Wasteland, Moon, B2B or Price of Progress. There's plenty of pseudo-duals, from Painlands to Shocklands to comes-into-play tapped unless you already have 3 lands-type duals, but people don't need that many duals. I imagine the only deck that would want 8 duals of each type would be Leonin Arbiter.dec

[d0ner]

I would lough, if they print these Snow-Covered Duals and print a Tarmogoyf generic creature with Snow-Land-Walk :D

[kiblast]

Anyway, if they print those ( and they will not) they need to abolish the reserved list first...since those are functionally identical to the older duals. Remember that snow is a supertype, thus Tundra and Snow Covered Tundra are functionally identical since they have the same card type, subtype, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness (supertype doesn't count).

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Anyway, if they print those ( and they will not) they need to abolish the reserved list first...since those are functionally identical to the older duals. Remember that snow is a supertype, thus Tundra and Snow Covered Tundra are functionally identical since they have the same card type, subtype, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness (supertype doesn't count).

Wizards has explicitly said that snow-lands wouldn't break the policy before, so clearly they consider supertype to be within those parameters.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Anyway, if they print those ( and they will not) they need to abolish the reserved list first...since those are functionally identical to the older duals. Remember that snow is a supertype, thus Tundra and Snow Covered Tundra are functionally identical since they have the same card type, subtype, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness (supertype doesn't count).

Wizards has explicitly said that snow-lands wouldn't break the policy before, so clearly they consider supertype to be within those parameters.

[kiblast]

Wizards has explicitly said that snow-lands wouldn't break the policy before, so clearly they consider supertype to be within those parameters.

This doesn't make very much sense, anyway.

So they can't reprint Workshop, but technically they can reprint a legendary Workshop?

[(nameless one)]

This doesn't make very much sense, anyway.

So they can't reprint Workshop, but technically they can reprint a legendary Workshop?

Essentially yes, since there are cards (and rules) that affect a legendary workshop that won't affect Mishra's Workshop. Functional reprints.

[cyberjar]

Sure, why not?

btw i own some Duals and i would lose a for me relevent amount of money if they were worth less suddenly, but still i would love to see those Duals printed

[Mr. Safety]

I think a smarter way to go about this would be to make a similar version of the original duals, but make them legendary. The new core set duel lands are really well designed (Drowned Catacomb etc.) Maybe a new dual land that comes into play tapped unless you control Basic Land X or Basic Land Y (island/swamp for Underground Sea) but was still fetchable with the island/swamp supertypes. This would give modern a boost, but still make legacy retain it's identity.

Look at Mox Opal that was a pretty cool variation of a mox...

EDIT: fixed the spelling nayon, but ease up on your 'hate'...it's a simple spelling error, Mr. English Nazi

[nayon]

I hate it when people say "duel lands". The only "duel" land afaik is Arena. We're talking about DUAL lands.

Anyway, it feels like they thought of doing this but decided that it was a bad idea (maybe due to the backlash?). I personally would love to have it happen, even though I have a set of each dual already.


These cards are clearly not functionally identical to the older ones, WOTC probably forgot to put supertype in the definition seeing as supertypes usually aren't very common. It's not functionally identical, because Skred, Scrying Sheets, Mouth of Ronom, etc.

[Gheizen64]

I hate it when people say "duel lands". The only "duel" land afaik is Arena. We're talking about DUAL lands.

Anyway, it feels like they thought of doing this but decided that it was a bad idea (maybe due to the backlash?). I personally would love to have it happen, even though I have a set of each dual already.


These cards are clearly not functionally identical to the older ones, WOTC probably forgot to put supertype in the definition seeing as supertypes usually aren't very common. It's not functionally identical, because Skred, Scrying Sheets, Mouth of Ronom, etc.

No supertype simply didn't exist at the time of the original reserved list (1998), that's why it's not there.

[OurSerratedDust]

I think a smarter way to go about this would be to make a similar version of the original duals, but make them legendary. The new core set duel lands are really well designed (Drowned Catacomb etc.) Maybe a new dual land that comes into play tapped unless you control Basic Land X or Basic Land Y (island/swamp for Underground Sea) but was still fetchable with the island/swamp supertypes. This would give modern a boost, but still make legacy retain it's identity.

Look at Mox Opal that was a pretty cool variation of a mox...

EDIT: fixed the spelling nayon, but ease up on your 'hate'...it's a simple spelling error, Mr. English Nazi

The issue here would be your opponent's duals. Fetching the same dual as an opponent would effectively give you a fetchable wasteland, and would create some really awkward games.

[Finn]

This is a legit rumor...Thank goodness! I was afraid that there was some doubt as to the validity of it all, but now that I know that it is an actual rumor on the internet, I am quite relieved.

I am going to guess that these are not going to happen, but if they go through with it, the lands would need to be printed in a block that has plenty of random hate for snow permanents in the way that Wizards put Terror in Mirrodin block thereby guaranteeing that it sucked.

[mchainmail]

So 80lands.dec?

Imagine Valakut with that kind of setup!

Valakut may be the only deck that is improved by this, as they were already running Rav Duals. Then again, we're talking tier 3 strategy. No real Legacy strategy would be significantly improved by running 8 duals.

[TsumiBand]

Valakut may be the only deck that is improved by this, as they were already running Rav Duals. Then again, we're talking tier 3 strategy. No real Legacy strategy would be significantly improved by running 8 duals.

Why is it not tech to have more duals than the opponent has Wastelands?

Also it would be neat to play a deck with 8 duals and no fetchlands, so at least your manabase doesn't up your opponent's Storm count, or make stupid Burn need to cast one less burn spell. I dunno, now that I say it maybe it is 'only neat'. Shrug.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Wasn't there a rumor that WotC tested "Snow Dual Lands" when Coldsnap was on deck then decided not to pull the trigger? I'm 99% sure that's all these are. Otherwise WotC needs to sack up and just break the reserved list instead of dicking around with crap like this.

[Julian23]

You'd still be running Fetchlands for various reasons:

- playing more than 2 colors
- playing basic lands
- playing Brainstorm
- etc.

Since decks usually only run sth. ranging from 18-24 lands, you'd hardly see any decks really utilizing 8 Tropical Islands.

[KrzyMoose]

From MTGSalvation:


These were in the playtest for Commander and were shown to the public at Gencon only because there wasn't a chance of them actually seeing print. The reason no new duals were printed on the Commander set was because Command Tower fulfilled the same role and could be put in all the decks, and let them make 4 additional new cards instead of devoting rare slots to lands.

These are almost definitely not in the design files for any other sets, and there is no confirmation that there will be any future Commander sets, as discussed in the Gencon panel.

[JACO]

Wizards has explicitly said that snow-lands wouldn't break the policy before, so clearly they consider supertype to be within those parameters.
Jack, do you have a link or source for this? I'd be interested in reading it.

[Mr. Safety]

The issue here would be your opponent's duals. Fetching the same dual as an opponent would effectively give you a fetchable wasteland, and would create some really awkward games.

By awkward, do you mean 'awesome'? Because fetching Wastelands with fetchlands sounds like a hell of a lot of fun...

[Gheizen64]

By awkward, do you mean 'awesome'? Because fetching Wastelands with fetchlands sounds like a hell of a lot of fun...

Yeah sure it was so fun playing 4 strip + 4 waste... Mirrors (just same color decks) would be so fun and would always come down to who draw more lands, with a secret tech of having lands in sideboard to win it.

I hope this was sarcasm.

[Bardo]

Moved to Community.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I saw this at Gencon and spoke with Ken Nagle about it. It was tested for the Commander decks but they shelved them because snow duals "felt contrived;" as in, it was an obvious attempt to circumvent the Reserved List.

[jandax]

That would be totally awesome, but, does legacy need snow duals? I mean, they print snow duals, then what? Ban regular duals?

It's messy.

Although, shit, Scrying Sheets would be awesome! And so would Skred!

Or they become budget Dual lands? A//B/U/R Duals will retain value as they're staples of multiple formats and loong out of print.

Functional Duals for the masses. Decks still run Basics, too

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Jack, do you have a link or source for this? I'd be interested in reading it.

Off the top of my head, no, but this is hardly a new idea. Here's Forsythe talking about it on Twitter (http://legacyinferno.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/twitter-dual-lands/), and while he doesn't explicitly say that it would be kosher, he seems fine discussing it as if it were.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I hate it when people say "duel lands". The only "duel" land afaik is Arena.

I would contest (http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=40540) that statement.

[UnsungHero]

Instead of functional reprints why not just give an errata to the ravnica shocklands getting rid of the
As "insert shockland name" enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Hallowed Fountain enters the battlefield tapped.

Maybe then make a rule saying that (example) Plains Islands are limited four to a deck, so you could use 2 Hallowed fountians and 2 tundras (if running four duals of that color combination).

This could probably end pretty confusing, but it could defiantly work around the reserve list, and could give a boost to the amount of duals out there. Just a thought.

[Jim Higginbottom]

they try not to issue power level errata

[Hof]

I saw this at Gencon and spoke with Ken Nagle about it. It was tested for the Commander decks but they shelved them because snow duals "felt contrived;" as in, it was an obvious attempt to circumvent the Reserved List.

Who cares? Snow Duals will save Legacy. I want them. I have money.
The 'Modern' format feels even more contrived IMO.

[majikal]

At least we know now that they're actually trying to come up with more Legacy-playable duals. Maybe Innistrad will have some goodies for us.

[Koby]

At least we know now that they're actually trying to come up with more Legacy-playable duals. Maybe Innistrad will have some goodies for us.

Indeed, now would be a good time to bring real duals (with basic land subtypes) as to not interfere in Standard from the fetchlands.

[dernestor86]

i dont think they will ever come but if they come i´d prefer them over real duals because i could get them in japanese or russian foil...^^ more bling for the deck.

but my true opinion is....well...i dont have one yet. with the prices more and more increasing by not reprinting duals, this will hit legacy pretty hard. when less people play, then the price falls again when it reaches its peak.

we also saw that the promo foil bob reprint didnt have any effect on the ravnica one. on duals there would be an effect on the revised ones. but not on fbb and beta, the ones that are considered to be pimp.

[Gheizen64]

At least we know now that they're actually trying to come up with more Legacy-playable duals. Maybe Innistrad will have some goodies for us.

A graveyard-based set is actually a good spot for some good dual lands that abuses the fetchland mechanic. Something like a dual that enter into play tapped if you have 20 or more life or an empty graveyard. That would play 90% like a normal dual in most deck and would allow for a slightly deflation of normal duals too.

And after that there's Ravnica. A man can hope.

[Richard Cheese]

If they did break the reserved list (not that they will), and caused a massive price collapse on format staples, at least it might help the theft issue!

[Gheizen64]

If they did break the reserved list (not that they will), and caused a massive price collapse on format staples, at least it might help the theft issue!

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/m11/155.jpg http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=1294&type=card

They just don't care.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I mean Wizards should honestly want a price collapse. Magic cards generally are way over their elastic limit. For the price of a normal Legacy deck at the moment, you could buy every single current-gen gaming console and have a few hundred left to spend on games. Richard Garfield is on record saying that the most a card should get to is $20. It's just too fucking expensive right now, it's damaging the game and the company.

It's not even in spirit, I don't know where people got the idea that something is "collectible" because no other version of it can ever be printed. That's not how collectible card non-games work, they don't say well shit I guess we can't ever put Mickey Mantle on a card again because the vintage ones are worth a bunch.

Like it should be, "Great, you have the 1994 Legends original Tabernacle at St Pendrell Vale. This is the FTV one. If you like having the original so much, pay extra for it, other people just want to play the fucking game here."

[Julian23]

Fork:
Copy target instant or sorcery spell, except that the copy is red. You may choose new targets for the copy.

Reverberate:
Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.


They didn't break it, according to their self-imposed standards.

[Nihil Credo]

The original subject has been dealt with to everybody's satisfaction. For bitching about prices and reprints, we have a now-official thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?16162-Official-Bitching-About-Prices-and-Reprints-Thread).