[Article] The Exiled: a look at the DCI suspended players list

[titus]

Dear all,

Thought you might enjoy this piece, although it isn't strictly about Legacy - more what could loosely be described as crime and punishment in Magic. There are issues highlighted which affect all of us (like David Matignon's ban for set-spoiling and issues surrounding tournament infringements) and some remarks on challenges tournament players might face in future.

Anyway - have a look! Hope you enjoy.

http://www.gatheringmagic.com/the-exiled/

[nedleeds]

<old man rant>

Players today have no clue how bad it was in the mid / late 90's. Opaque sleeves weren't allowed. There were very few guidelines with respect to punishment for things like: drawing extra cards, land filling, etc..

The Northeast scene was full of savage cheaters like Jason Gordon (Brainstorm was a favorite card of his, draw 3 put back ... some). I interned around Maryland and had to run the gauntlet of Justin Schneider (whom I caught with 10 total cards on his second turn), Mike 'Still Had All Deez in my Lap' Long and all of their minions.

Going to school in Atlanta there were some vicious cheaters there as well. How about marking the mana colors on the back of your cards according to what the card was. Makes Thawing Glaciers pretty solid no? A small dot in the red jewel meant a Disk, a small dot in the green circle means a land.

Besides shuffling shenanigans and the occasional collusion it's way better than it used to be.

[titus]

Yikes! That sounds pretty savage. And it's good to know things have gotten far, far better. I was only playing very casually at the time, and those sort of antics would occasionally pop up amongst players at school - as much as an adolescent lark as anything else - then be chased out of town, so to speak.

It's intriguing though that people still want to push at the rules, however tight they are, and however serious the consequences. What do you make of the whole Saito thing?

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Yikes! That sounds pretty savage. And it's good to know things have gotten far, far better. I was only playing very casually at the time, and those sort of antics would occasionally pop up amongst players at school - as much as an adolescent lark as anything else - then be chased out of town, so to speak.

It's intriguing though that people still want to push at the rules, however tight they are, and however serious the consequences. What do you make of the whole Saito thing?

It was kind of shitty for Saito to get that long of a ban for slow play but he pushed that rule to the edge for a long time. Reading through this article though I did feel bad for Matignon. He seems really biitter about the whole thing and not very happy with Wafo-Tappa.

[Pich]

Slowplaying is such a shitty attitude, it's like direspecting the game and your opponents, when my opponent slowplays i tell them to play faster rather than staring at them without saying a word just because they are '' good players '' ..

[Gaius Darkfire]

I really liked the article. You dont see much written about this aspect of the game aside from reaction articles (like when Saito or the Guillaumes were banned).

I wasn't aware that they removed the reasons for being banned, that must be a recent change over the last 6 months since I was removed from the list. It was always interesting to look at the others and see what they were in for. The two that are banned from doing Coordinator stuff for 3 and 5 years are almost definitely for manipulating and falsifying tournament results, but I'm curious about the two Coordinator lifetimes.

[Finn]

Man, that was a well-researched, and well-written article. I have no freaking patience for cheaters. It is hard to include Matignon in that category, and I really feel for the guy. I could never bring myself to cheat at a tournament, but I can see myself gushing about unreleased cards to friends even if I knew I was not supposed to. Then again, I am not a writer for a Magic Magazine. I can't beleive he was not bound by a non-disclosure agreement.

[CorpT]

Saito didn't get banned for Slow Play. He was banned for Stalling. There is a huge difference.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Interesting article. You probably should have touched on the kids who got a lifetime ban for stealing though, that was one of the biggest DCI-ban stories of all time.

As for the guy who remembers all the cheating back in the day you forgot two of the worst ones...

#1- I go to cut your library and palm a card then kick it under the table and call a judge. When we count your library it's 59 cards, game loss.

#2- We start the game. I draw 6 you draw 7. After several turns I call a judge and say you drew extra cards. Judge counts up cards and decides you drew extra and gives you a game loss.

[HAVE HEART]

Interesting article. You probably should have touched on the kids who got a lifetime ban for stealing though, that was one of the biggest DCI-ban stories of all time.

As for the guy who remembers all the cheating back in the day you forgot two of the worst ones...

#1- I go to cut your library and palm a card then kick it under the table and call a judge. When we count your library it's 59 cards, game loss.

#2- We start the game. I draw 6 you draw 7. After several turns I call a judge and say you drew extra cards. Judge counts up cards and decides you drew extra and gives you a game loss.

Those are some pretty legit cheats. I wonder how many times my 11/12-year-old self got cheated while playing...

[Guy I Don't Know]

I had a person cheat that I was playing against in a top 8 of a PTQ/GPT (its been awhile). Third turn in draft he has an extra card. The judge gives him a game loss. To me, that should at least be a DQ. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do in that situation. It was the head judge so couldn't appeal. It was not an accident he drew extra...

[troopatroop]

I had a person cheat that I was playing against in a top 8 of a PTQ/GPT (its been awhile). Third turn in draft he has an extra card. The judge gives him a game loss. To me, that should at least be a DQ. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do in that situation. It was the head judge so couldn't appeal. It was not an accident he drew extra...

A game loss seems plenty appropriate. He loses that game, and likely the match for drawing an extra card. It could've been an accident. Top-8 is pretty serious business, but giving him a DQ would be a godsend for you if it were indeed an accident. Losing 1 game puts him in a serious hole, and I hope you still won the match!

[cdr]

I had a person cheat that I was playing against in a top 8 of a PTQ/GPT (its been awhile). Third turn in draft he has an extra card. The judge gives him a game loss. To me, that should at least be a DQ. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do in that situation. It was the head judge so couldn't appeal. It was not an accident he drew extra...

The difference between GL and DQ is whether the guy was cheating or not. If he didn't get a DQ, the HJ by definition didn't think he was cheating. This determination usually comes after some amount of investigation, which could be as short as a few questions.

In rare cases (more common with inexperienced judges), it might not occur to the judge to consider cheating.

If you're convinced the guy is cheating, take the HJ aside and calmly and dispassionately explain why you think he's cheating.

Being good at catching cheaters takes a lot of experience and training - it's one of the most difficult judge skills.

[titus]

Interesting article. You probably should have touched on the kids who got a lifetime ban for stealing though, that was one of the biggest DCI-ban stories of all time.


Hey man, thanks for reading. I did try and track a really wide variety of players on the list - I especially wanted to include someone who had been banned for life - but as you can probably imagine, there were plenty who didn't return my emails. I also tried to speak to do people who had committed a variety of offences, but this was hampered by the fact that in the middle of writing the article (about a month ago now I think) WOTC removed the specific offences from the list, citing a "policy change" - they then wouldn't release me the list in its previous public form, so it was tricky to pick up specific cases.

[DrJones]

I remember there was one player who was banned for life for punching the face of the head judge after he got a game loss for cheating. He might have been italian, but details are fuzzy after so many years and I no longer keep these old Magic magazines.

[swoop]

There is a player who got banned (think 3 years) for stealing a CASE of booster BOXES in Paris.

[Windux]

There is a player who got banned (think 3 years) for stealing a CASE of booster BOXES in Paris.

He had to have a hugh bagpack ;)

[dontbiteitholmes]

While we are talking about bannings don't forget everyone's favorite dealer MTGChicago, who got himself banned for 10 years for getting aggro at some event and now is the longest non-lifetime ban on the wall of shame.

[nedleeds]

Interesting article. You probably should have touched on the kids who got a lifetime ban for stealing though, that was one of the biggest DCI-ban stories of all time.

As for the guy who remembers all the cheating back in the day you forgot two of the worst ones...

#1- I go to cut your library and palm a card then kick it under the table and call a judge. When we count your library it's 59 cards, game loss.

#2- We start the game. I draw 6 you draw 7. After several turns I call a judge and say you drew extra cards. Judge counts up cards and decides you drew extra and gives you a game loss.

I had #2 happen a couple of times, never had #1 happen. I might have come across the table. Another very popular ploy was land stacking, 2 spells 1 land. Combined with a marked deck it made for an interesting situation. You could unpile and present if you suspected it.

[cdr]

You could unpile and present if you suspected it.

That's also cheating, BTW. You yourself would be DQed if you got caught doing that.

[nedleeds]

That's also cheating, BTW. You yourself would be DQed if you got caught doing that.

Sorry for lack of context in my post, this was uh 12 years ago. The wild west with respect to penalties and rules and enforcement.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I had #2 happen a couple of times, never had #1 happen. I might have come across the table. Another very popular ploy was land stacking, 2 spells 1 land. Combined with a marked deck it made for an interesting situation. You could unpile and present if you suspected it.

I got DQ'd in the top 8 of an SCG event years and years ago because somehow one basic land from my deck ended up several seats down from me under a chair on the floor. I can't say for sure what happened but if I did drop exactly one card from my MD that obviously never would have been SB'd out and didn't notice it would have been the first and only time in 17 years of playing Magic, so take that how you will.

I used to have people try to stack lands on me at FNM as recently as Kawigama block, then they would get pissed when I shuffled their deck. There was a famous pro-tour story where someone drafted I want to say Alliances and used Mirage lands then his opponent easily separated his deck into two piles put one on top of the other and handed it back.

[cdr]

Sorry for lack of context in my post, this was uh 12 years ago. The wild west with respect to penalties and rules and enforcement.

Right, just pointing out that you shouldn't be doing that kind of thing now in case anyone is tempted.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Interesting article. You probably should have touched on the kids who got a lifetime ban for stealing though, that was one of the biggest DCI-ban stories of all time.

As for the guy who remembers all the cheating back in the day you forgot two of the worst ones...

#1- I go to cut your library and palm a card then kick it under the table and call a judge. When we count your library it's 59 cards, game loss.

#2- We start the game. I draw 6 you draw 7. After several turns I call a judge and say you drew extra cards. Judge counts up cards and decides you drew extra and gives you a game loss.

#1 happened just last year when I was at a PTQ in Hong Kong. One guy shuffled the other's deck when it was presented and casually slid off a card into the seat next to him, underneath his own backpack. When a deckcheck was called the 59 card victim got a game or match loss and once it was reported a neutral party helping them found the 60th card. The judge said since it was already reported that he lost there was no way of taking it back (even though this was at the very start of matches, with plenty of time to play it out).

Then again in Hong Kong people cheated in any opportunity they had, they just seemed to think it part of the game and the better cheater wins.

Moral of the story is if your opponent decides to shuffle your deck stare at it intently, for they could not only be trying to get you a game loss, they could be trying to steal a card or something else.

[evanmartyr]

Cheating wasn't just rampant back in the day, it's rampant in any play group where people are starting to move beyond the "hee hee, magic is fun!" stage towards the "winning matters" stage, and where people aren't mature enough to understand that it's a game, or when there's some sort of monetary gain associated with it.

Like, when I was a kid, everyone cheated at least some. Making sure that one Mahamoti Djinn was in the top half of your deck, etc. It was kind of accepted because no one really cared about actually winning, you just wanted the game to be good, and drawing Holy Strengths and Pearl Unicorns and nothing cool for the first 45 minutes of play in a multiplayer game just wasn't; there was no good "story" there, no interesting interactions, which was the whole reason to play in the first place.

But I remember thinking to myself, the first "real" tournament I played, that I *could* try to make sure I always had a Plague Spitter in my opening hand against Blue Skies, but I'll be damned if I lost out on a 1000$ scholarship for some stupid shit like that.

Didn't win it anyway, but there was that one point where I decided not to cheat. I can understand, though, why people do it.

Although, I really do not understand why Saito got all this player support after his banning. He doesn't just play slowly. He goes into the tank in ridiculously simple situations, usually towards the end of the match and in situations where it benefits him for the game to end in a draw. If he's winning, he plays at a regular, reasonable pace. If he's losing, all of a sudden he needs to think for 5 minutes about his board of 6x Islands and hand of a Daze and a Force of Will. There are situations where he'll sit there, flipping his hand around, shuffling his lands around into different piles, when there is LITERALLY nothing to do...if it benefits him to take as much time as possible to run the clock.

He got slapped by the DCI for stalling, and it was a fairly cut and dry case, with plenty of evidence over multiple tournaments of his play rate not varying based on difficulty or number of decisions to make, avenues of play to consider, but on match time left.

Honestly, I'd rather people who cheat just cheat outright. Let their competency with sleight of hand be their ruin or benefit. Slow play and stalling bugs the shit out of me, because judges usually feel it's subjective, and they need to witness it firsthand to act on it. Me saying "Hey, look at that, he palmed an extra card right there." and being backed up by the players around me is a lot more cut and dry than "He's stalling." Even if the judge thinks it *may* be slow play, they'll usually err on the side of the person being dumb and needing time to think, or being stressed and needing time to think, or something.