Infinite Mana has to be worh something

[nexus blue]

I remember Grim Monolith getting unbanned and people talking about how it would surely lead to powerful combos with Power Artifact. But I can't find a thread on it. So as much as I hate to discuss something that I feel could be surprising and powerful, I simply don't have the knowledge, time or patience to do the work myself of finding the cards that would make a deck with infinite colorless mana shine. I'll post what I have as a deck list at the bottom, although it hasn't seen the light of real playtesting against anything or anyone. I'm sure there's plenty of better things to put in, so please, make it lively. And lastly, I know this requires several cards to put together for the win, so if it is unrealistic, feel free to say so without being a douche.

Okay, my idea is that unlimited mana gives wincons through all kinds of fun ways:

Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Dark Depths
Stroke of Genius
Banefire

etc.

I think the Banefire/Stroke of Genius play is best because one can't be countered and the other is an instant. The deck I have in mind is almost completely mono-U, though I'm sure there are other colors that would aid a certain metagame or a different take on this idea.

I originally wanted a dual wish package as the SB to search for whatever I needed, but I think the deck can be more stable if it just relies on what is in the MB. However, it definitely needs a SB with an alternative wincon due to the easy nature of disruption from other SBs in the 2nd and 3rd games. SnT/Emrakul would probably be easiest, but not very original.



Lands
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins
7 Island

Combo Pieces
4 Grim Monolith
4 Power Artifact

Wincons
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Banefire
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Protection
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
2 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Pierce

Utility/Search
4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Sideboard
?


I had Merchant Scroll in here as a 3-of before I brought in the SDT/Counterbalance package, but for now Ponder seems to do a similar job in finding what you need, plus it isn't dependent on being a U instant.

I'm including multiple wincons because I want the deck to be resilient to combo hate like Pithing Needle and Gaddock Teeg . I also believe that variety is the spice of life.

As stated before, I had originally designed this to work with a Wishboard strategy with both Cunning Wish and Burning Wish . This allowed for a multitude of options for finding different wincons based on the state of the board, but ultimately didn't help assemble the combo any fast or provide the kind of basic, solid protection that SDT/Counterbalance provides.

The key is a quick assembly of a Grim Monolith and Power Artifact followed with one of the wincons, either by going straight for the throat if you have a decent draw or stalling with SDT/CB and various counters until the coast is clear.

I've debated having true alternative wincons with bonus uses in the main, i.e. Vendilion Clique , Jace 2.0, etc., but haven't come to a conclusion on whether that would harm the point of the deck.

And that's about all I have for now. I welcome comments/criticisms. No DBs allowed.

[B is for Big Job]

Have you ever tried a white splash for E-tutor and Stp? E-tutor helps you find just about anything you might need like a piece of the combo or to set up counter-top while giving you some removal.

[Pastorofmuppets]

You have to factor in that you're running a 3-card combo that loses out to Krosan Grip. Emrakul is almost definitely your best bet, since it's uncounterable and will basically win you the game as soon as it hits.

[nexus blue]

Well, technically nothing has been tried yet, this is all just paper testing. I did at one point have a white splash for those exact cards, with that exact idea in mind. With the right dual lands this is probably a solid idea, at least for the Enlightened Tutors . I can see the Swords to Plowshares being somewhat redundant with so many counters and what not.

Also, would adding Enlightened Tutor make having multiple copies of Counterbalance, Sensei's Divining Top, Power Artifact or Grim Monolith redundant? I think getting the mana combo assembled is more important than the hard lock with CB and SDT, but how low can you go in making cuts to the 4-ofs?

[nexus blue]

You have to factor in that you're running a 3-card combo that loses out to Krosan Grip. Emrakul is almost definitely your best bet, since it's uncounterable and will basically win you the game as soon as it hits.

Yeah, I understand this combo is susceptible to Krosan Grip . But every combo is susceptible to something, and Grip is a four-of that isn't MBed in most decks I've seen, even the ones that play G. Maybe a copy or two MB.

And Emrakul is a great play, but that's if the combo is assembled. And if it's assembled, then Banefire seems more logical because it wins instantly.

[Pneumatiker]

If you played Enlightened Tutor, you could play Goblin Cannon to have a tutorable win condition which wins immediatly.

[nexus blue]

If you played Enlightened Tutor, you could play Goblin Cannon to have a tutorable win condition which wins immediatly.

Goblin Cannon is definitely another feasible wincon, and it does it on the turn you play it which is sweet.

The more I think about having an Enlightened Tutor package, the less excited I am about it. Yes, it fetches both combo pieces for the mana win and both combo pieces for the CB/SDT, but the deck already runs Intuition. This puts the needed piece right into the hand, instead of on the top of the deck, and allows you to dig for a wincon as well as a needed piece. In my (limited) testing, you always start with a part of the combo, and if you don't have the other piece within digging range via Brainstorm or Ponder, Intuition can fetch it.

[nexus blue]

Some more testing. A SB with a Show and Tell and Emrakul/Progenitus package seems like the most sound idea. Just remove the Monoliths and Power Artifacts for the beef and a T1-T3 Emrakul. It seems to fit near seamlessly with the other cards in the main, minus Sneak Attack and Lotus Petals.

[Qweerios]

I don't know if this is pertinent to this thread, but I know a guy at my local store that plays a Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb combo. He goes off decking himself three Narcomoeba and an Emrakul to reshuffle his graveyard then uses Dread Return on Sharuum The Hegemon and targets a Blasting Station. He has Intuition, Show and Tell, and Emrakul as a backup combo. It may not be unlimited mana but it uses an infinitely tapped/untapped monolith and requires only two cards to go off as opposed to three.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Yeah, I understand this combo is susceptible to Krosan Grip . But every combo is susceptible to something, and Grip is a four-of that isn't MBed in most decks I've seen, even the ones that play G. Maybe a copy or two MB.

And Emrakul is a great play, but that's if the combo is assembled. And if it's assembled, then Banefire seems more logical because it wins instantly.

Non-basic lands are your only source of red mana though, and I assure you that Wasteland is an issue. Emrakul is just as uncounterable as Banefire and doesn't need red mana, just sayin'. Also, Staff of Domination can net you infinite life and is tutorable by E. Tutor. It's not a hard wincon, but it's something.

[Glorfindel]

I don't know if this is pertinent to this thread, but I know a guy at my local store that plays a Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb combo. He goes off decking himself three Narcomoeba and an Emrakul to reshuffle his graveyard then uses Dread Return on Sharuum The Hegemon and targets a Blasting Station. He has Intuition, Show and Tell, and Emrakul as a backup combo. It may not be unlimited mana but it uses an infinitely tapped/untapped monolith and requires only two cards to go off as opposed to three.
This (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21377-Deck-The-Four-Horsemen-Orb-Monolith).

[Glorfindel]

I don't know if this is pertinent to this thread, but I know a guy at my local store that plays a Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb combo. He goes off decking himself three Narcomoeba and an Emrakul to reshuffle his graveyard then uses Dread Return on Sharuum The Hegemon and targets a Blasting Station. He has Intuition, Show and Tell, and Emrakul as a backup combo. It may not be unlimited mana but it uses an infinitely tapped/untapped monolith and requires only two cards to go off as opposed to three.
This (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21377-Deck-The-Four-Horsemen-Orb-Monolith).

[nexus blue]

I don't know if this is pertinent to this thread, but I know a guy at my local store that plays a Basalt Monolith and Mesmeric Orb combo. He goes off decking himself three Narcomoeba and an Emrakul to reshuffle his graveyard then uses Dread Return on Sharuum The Hegemon and targets a Blasting Station. He has Intuition, Show and Tell, and Emrakul as a backup combo. It may not be unlimited mana but it uses an infinitely tapped/untapped monolith and requires only two cards to go off as opposed to three.

Yeah, that's the Four Horseman, I think that's what was linked with the thread that Glorfindel posted.

Pastor:
I totally forgot Staff of Domination! Good call, that could definitely help with the search. And I agree with not wanting to deal with Wastelands, apart from some fetches any of my legacy decks always rely more on basics than nonbasics. I'm not arguing Emrakul's goodness, just that if I go off with a Banefire, that's it right there. Emrakul should be the same but there are more theoretical responses and more preparation for him than a Banefire, right? But yes, apart from sticking in a singleton Mountain, I'd have to use some sort of nonbasic to cast a Banefire.

[nexus blue]

.....And after I just made the post previous to this, I'm realizing that adding E Tutor would also require corrupting my mana base, this time with W. However, if I'm willing to throw some extra color, I could either rely on Fetches to find me the basics I need, or just go all out and not worry too much about Wastelands anymore than 90% of other Legacy decks do. I guess testing will show the better path to smooth draws.

Seriously like the Staff though. Good thought.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Maybe you'd want to find room for Simian Spirit Guide if you really must run Banefire. It'll help you combo out faster, too.

[nexus blue]

Well since there are different ways to win/combo out without Banefire, assume it's not in the main. What about the actual combo itself, as far as assembling and protecting it? As I stated in the opening post, CB/SDT seems a good shell with blue cards to protect with counters and dig with Intuition, Brainstorm and Ponder. Blue also fits well with a SB idea of Show and Tell/Emrakul.

Are there other shells this would fit into to help assemble it? E Tutor has been thrown out, but simply putting the card on topof the library isn't as fast as I'd like - for it to work that turn you need to be 4-5 land drops in. This is goldfishing consistently at turn 4, WHEN IT GOES. I'm probably having 1 draw in 4 that is either void of protection for the Monolith/Power Artifact combo or the wincon, or I'm not able to assemble it by digging - like I'll have the mana but no finisher, or I'll have part of the combo with a finisher and land but no way to dig for the last piece. I will say this could just be due to bad piloting, but until I actually get this together and play it live in a local tourney I've got nothing but conjecture.

[Freggle]

Well I have played blue very sparsely. From Revised to Alliances (FoW stopped my Timetwisters) and a brief moment during Hulk / Flash. ...but I wonder if your list could not benefit from Chain of Vapor and Ancestral Knowledge.

Knowledge to assemble your combo faster with deeper digs, and shuffle effects. ...and chain to bounce nuisances (annoying creatures) or hate (Null Rod.)

I chose bounces so you can see if you want it to pass permission again, and since your combo is infinite all you really need is a turn to do your thing.

That my input.

[nexus blue]

I wonder if your list could not benefit from Chain of Vapor and Ancestral Knowledge.

Knowledge to assemble your combo faster with deeper digs, and shuffle effects. ...and chain to bounce nuisances (annoying creatures) or hate (Null Rod.)

I read about Anscestral Knowledge the other night on another thread somewhere, and how powerful it could be with Brainstorm, but still good in its own right for deeper digs. Thanks for the reminder, I'll see how it goes, it would definitely help to have one of those over some other cards on the list.

[nexus blue]

Okay, some changes from testing:

Since the Show and Tell package is definitely the way to go for a SB, I've dropped the Stroke of Genius for an extra Emrakul, since 1) he'll already be coming in game 2 if the opponent has the ability to disrupt the combo, and 2) it seems to make sense to play a win condition that can't just be outright countered. This means much less setup on my part protection-wise if I have intuition in hand or something. I'd love to fully mono-U and just have all 3 Emrakuls as the win conditions, but for some reason Banefire is near and dear to my heart. Must be the combo Elves I regularly play.

The jury is still out on Ancestral Knowledge . It's sweet sometimes and other times overkill. I rarely find myself wanting to keep it, and if I'm in a position to have three mana free I'd like to be getting to the point with the combo/win.

I added some Wipe Aways to the board, though I'd love to fit one in the main.

I've also been messing around with a few Jace 2.0's in the main. His brainstorm/topdeck/creature protection has great synergy so far, but I'd like this to be a faster deck than what Jace allows for. Maybe I just need to be content with letting this not be a super-quick kill?

[Heresy]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/5dn/156.jpg

[nexus blue]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/5dn/156.jpg

Not that I don't appreciate the input, but the Staff got a mention in post #10. Cheers for reading!