WinterSphere with Elves!

[Copenhagen]

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=159277&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=237007&type=card http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=194979&type=card

The Deck

So I've been running the NO Elves package for a while now, and I used to have some very good success with it. Recently though, as most of those players can attest, something seems to be missing. Progenitus just doesn't have the impact that he used to (with the recent showings of Phyrexian Metamorph, Ensnaring Bridge, and the like). Even without these cards, an opposing Batterskull can painfully reduce his clock. Even so, these Elf builds lack the control aspect that stops Combo decks like Hive Mind and such. So, I started to think of how a mono-green deck with outrageous ramping possibilities could address these problems. Here is what I came up with:


Creatures:
4 Arbor Elf
2 Llanowar Elf
2 Fyndhorn Elf
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Archdruid
1 Viridian Shaman
3 Elvish Champion
4 Imperious Perfect
3 Sylvan Messenger
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader

Sorcery:
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Artifact:
4 Winter Orb
3 Trinisphere

Planeswalkers:
2 Garruk Wildspeaker

Lands:
13 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Gaea's Cradle

The basic idea is to drop Winter Orb and Trinispheresupplemented by Wasteland to kill your opponents mana base, while taking advantage of this with Gaea's Cradle, Garruk Wildspeaker, and the obscene mana Elves can make. Trinisphere could be Thorn of Amethyst, but the former is obviously the more powerful single drop and only really affects a few cards in the deck (Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves), which are really dead anyways after the first couple turns. It maintains the possible T4 goldfish that Elves is capable of, with the added benefit of screwing your opponents to really get a board presence and excel at the midgame.


Sideboard (very tentative)

My Sideboard is really what I'm having the most trouble with, as my Matchup Analysis is fairly shaky. What I have so far is:


Sideboard:
2 Null Rod
3 Beast Within
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Viridian Zealot
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

I'm not so sure about Null Rod, as the combo-hate it was meant to be is taken care of in Trinisphere. However, it does still work on Aether Vial, which is a problem that I'll get into later. I'm also not sure about Beast Within > Krosan Grip >Nature's Claim, since Phyrexian Metamorph may already address the creature removal this deck needs (Iona, Emrakul,Progenitus, Blazing Archon).


Matchups (tentative)

Reanimator:

Problems to Address: Iona, Blazing Archon
Pre-board: Trinisphere and Winter Orbare really what gives you a chance here, as they can slow your opponent down long enough to swarm them (a benefit you don't really get with NO).
Post-board: Beast Within for Blazing Archon, Phyrexian Metamorph for Iona. Provided you can fight through the counters to kill these guys, swarming shouldn't be much of a problem.

Hive Mind: (the main reason for the disruption)

Problems to Address: Emrakul, Pacts
Pre-board: This is where Trinisphere and Winter Orb shine. If you can get these bad boys down, the time it takes for them to recover is more than enough for you to swarm.
Post-board: You now have the added benefit of Beast Within/Krosan Grip, and Phyrexian Metamorph. Other than that I don't see it being much different than G1.

Merfolk: (the big ?)

Problems to Address: Elves thrived on these little blue dudes before, as Elves are faster and don't care about the occasional counter. However, G1 is much harder now that your disruption does very, very little.
Pre-board: In theory you can still outrace them. Trinisphere does what it does against FoW, but mana disruption does little against a resolved Aether Vial.
Post-board: Obviosly, Winter Orb comes out. I'm not entirely sold on what cards to board in, but some that come to mind are Pithing Needlefor Aether Vial (in which case Winter Orb may not lose all effectiveness), Beast Within to stop Coralhelm Commander, and, possibly, Tsunami just to really get that guy's face red. This is the MU I'm having the most trouble addressing.

TES

Problems to Address: Not really any. With Trinisphere and Winter Orb in the Main Deck, you've got this MU pretty covered, something no other variation of Elves can really say.
Pre-board: Rush Trinisphere ASAP, and go to G2.
Post-board: Your answers can be addressed, but now you can also bring in Null Rod, Gaddock Teeg, etc. to really put the hate on.

Dredge

Problems to Address: Another MU Elves has always struggled against. Iona comes into play again.
Pre-board: You should be able to bust out a Trinisphere and call game. There's very little a Dredge player can do G1 against that, as Ichorid alone will not be fast enough.
Post-board: They'll board some answers, but so can you. Gaddock Teeg and Phyrexian Metamorph help a lot here.

Zoo

Problems to Address: They can be very fast and have spot removal, making landing a Trinisphere quite hard.
Pre-board: I personally have had good success with this, although this may be luck. With a Trinisphere and/or Winter Orb online, you can outpace them.
Post-board: They'll bring in some Krosan Grips, and there's really not much you can do about it. However, Trinisphere and Winter Orb are still bombs, and they can and will win you this MU.

Stoneforge.dec

Problems to Address: Batterskull, Sword of Feast and Famine
Pre-board: Trinisphere and Winter Orbcan help you slow them down, but Stoneforge get's around them just like Aether Vial does. GSZ for Viridian Shaman to blow Batterskull can single handedly win you this game though.
Post-board: Winter Orb and Trinisphere don't work as well here, but Beast Within, Krosan Grip, and Null Rod do. If you can keep a Batterskull from getting out of hand, you should be able to race them.

[wilson]

maybe Arbor Elves for Fyndhorn? With Winter Orb, they can "store" Mana if you don't need it the same turn. Well, if that ever happens.

[Copenhagen]

maybe Arbor Elves for Fyndhorn? With Winter Orb, they can "store" Mana if you don't need it the same turn. Well, if that ever happens.

Change made. I don't know how often it'll come up, or how much better it will actually be, but it is slightly better because of that situation. Good catch.

[klaus]

rootmaze seems like a fit.
but 10 lock elements seem overkill. how about -trinisphere +rootmaze

[Copenhagen]

rootmaze seems like a fit.
but 10 lock elements seem overkill. how about -trinisphere +rootmaze

Trinisphere (or Thorn of Amethyst) needs to stay, as they are really the backbone to this. Root Maze is good, and I wish I could squeeze it in, but it doesn't help against Hive Mind, which is really what made me put together this version of Elves in the first place.

[Augustas]

eer, but progenitus wins more games than it ever did in it's whole existence. It just had to find the right shell for it - NO RUG

[Grollub]

Have you considered trying Rishadan Port maybe instead of Wasteland or in conjunction if the deck can support both, it have some pretty nice synergy with Winter Orb.

[Copenhagen]

eer, but progenitus wins more games than it ever did in it's whole existence. It just had to find the right shell for it - NO RUG

That's exactly why Natural Order doesn't work in Elves anymore. When I ran NO Elves back in March, it won because it could get NO out fast, had an alternate win con (swarm), and Progenitus wasn't really being addressed in people's sideboards. NO RUG then came along and beat face, and now answers to Progenitus are everywhere, and NO Elves doesn't have the disruption to stop them. My point isn't about Progenitus being weak, it's about Progenitus being weak in Elves now.

[Copenhagen]

Have you considered trying Rishadan Port maybe instead of Wasteland or in conjunction if the deck can support both, it have some pretty nice synergy with Winter Orb.

Rishadan Port had crossed my mind, but there's no room for it with Wasteland (I need to keep green sources up, as 13 Forest is dangerously low for getting a consistent T1 play), and on it's own I think Wasteland is superior. Only testing will tell, but that's just my prediction.

[Copenhagen]

Sideboard Update:
2 Pithing Needle (works great for Vial and SFM)
3 Phyrexian Metamorph (Iona, Emrakul, Progenitus)
3 Beast Within (Blazing Archon, Tombstalker, Peacekeeper)
1 Viridian Zealot (Problem Enchantments)
1 Gaddock Teeg (Lots)
1 Dauntless Escort (Perish)
2 Null Rod (Affinity, TES)
2 Surgical Extraction (Dredge, Reanimator)

This rounds out the bad MU's that I've come across. Most other MU's are very winnable. Not sure if Null Rods are necessary, we'll see.


Thorn of Amethyst vs. Trinisphere: I'm still not sure. Trinisphere is such a bomb against so many things, but a lot of the really bad cards for this deck (S&T, NO) are 3cmc or more anyways, and Thorn affects all of those. It would kill the Zoo MU though.

[Madak17]

Sorry to necro this thread, but I'm working with a similar list and had a question for you:

Have you given any thought to Staff of Domination? It's an easy infinite life/untap/tap/draw combo with Priest of Titania or Elvish Archdruid. Maybe not something to build around, but maybe something to make room for.

[metalhead]

0 spirit guides makes me sad. It may be greedy. But the thought of forest dubs spirit guide for turn 1 orb/sphere sounds too good to ignore.

[saspook]

I would play Sphere of Resistance over Thorn or trinisphere. Yes, Thorn may seem more asymmetrical, but you have way more mana than other decks with creatures.

[Malchar]

For consistency, you should try using 6 or more trinisphere-like effects. Winter orb is great, but without trinisphere, it doesn't affect that many decks. Namely, decks that curve out around 3 usually won't be affected very much by winter orb alone. If you only use 3 trinispheres and want to assemble trinisphere + orb + elves, then it can be quite difficult especially if the opponent has disruption.

However, trinisphere and effects like it actually work great on their own. If you had to choose between just a trinisphere or just a winter orb, the trinisphere would probably help more. Trinisphere also has the best synergy with wasteland, as opposed to winter orb, which has a kind of antisynergy with wasteland. For another example, winter orb on its own does almost nothing against combo decks.

Root Maze works great against most decks, buying you at least one extra turn. Against storm, it slows down petal and mox. Against fetchlands, you slow them down for two turns. The only problem is that your trinisphere will come in tapped, which turns it off. It's also insane against affinity, welder, and any artifact creature reanimator targets.

Anyway, my point was that I think the deck might be stronger if you try to add more effects like trinisphere, sphere of resistance, root maze, etc, and not focus on winter orb so much.

[Michael Keller]

Pre-board: You should be able to bust out a Trinisphere and call game. There's very little a Dredge player can do G1 against that, as Ichorid alone will not be fast enough.
Post-board: They'll board some answers, but so can you. Gaddock Teeg and Phyrexian Metamorph help a lot here.

Or just attacking you with an unrelenting amount of Zombie tokens, Nether Shadows, and Ichorids each turn without casting a single spell. Your only out in that instance would be strictly Trinisphere. Without it, you're a sitting duck to Breakthrough or any other draw spell that effectively constitutes a blowout.

"Should" be able to bust out a Trinisphere? You run three in a deck with no draw effects, which in turn makes this an ideal match for any hybrid Dredge variant. Post-board, it might be a little tough, but I think your game one perception is a little far-fetched.

Also, running Surgical Extraction in a deck with Trinisphere (yet deeming Trinisphere as a "good game" against Dredge) seems incredibly counterproductive. If anything, run Relic or Crypt. I just think you're putting way too much stock into your lock components which you've described in every single match-up analysis as being the catalyst which will win you games you'd probably lose. I am not convinced, and think Combo Elves is still probably a better choice overall.

Winter Orb and Trinisphere are better suited for the sideboard in a deck like this, which should already be able to just win without having to worry about "locking" an opponent out of the game. That's pretty much win-more, which isn't a good strategy in a deck that can already combo out relatively fast and with tremendous consistency.