Fossil4182
08-29-2011, 01:29 AM
I'm composing this post after watching the latest episode of The Magic Show (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/22661_The_Magic_Show_241_The_Mistakes_of_New_Phyrexia.html). I've posted on these types of assertions before (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21580-Let-s-Bitch-About-Show-and-Tell&p=573120&viewfull=1#post573120) and usually think they are just people overreacting for any number of reasons. However, the I do take to heart the call for action that Evan talks about in the last segment of the show and feel I ought to step outside of my typically cynical view on matters such as banning.
To start with, lets talk about the problem in Legacy. First, problem isn't that certain decks are viable and other are not. These things will flux depending on a number of factors. For example, location is a significant variable; this point was well demonstrated in the latest write up (http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=1874) over at Eternal Central which shows the differences between European and American Legacy events. Second, the number or percentage of specific cards that appear in a given number of Top 8's may be an issue, but its only symptomatic of the real problem. The real issue is that WotC doesn't given Legacy the necessary attention in order to be a "healthy" format. There are several ways in which WotC neglects Legacy.
First, WotC does not play test cards when they design with Legacy in mind. For example, when Vengevine was printed, Fauna Shaman was legal in the format. Its is likely that someone in their R&D group attempted to use this combination. However, how unforeseeable or difficult would it of been to connect the dots and think about Vengevine and Survival of the Fittest interacting? If you want a more recent example, Tom LaPille Tweet'd "Isn't the best way to get around Mental Misstep in Legacy to just not play any one mana cards?" As I stated above, different decks will be viable at different times for a number of reasons. However, when R&D is suggesting that not playing cards of a certain mana cost is the best way to access the format, then something seems to be wrong. This transitions into my next point which is
There is not a clear definition of what is or what is not a healthy format. I don't know if I am alone in this observation, but it appears to me that WotC bans cards more on feel than on results in Legacy.The result is unpredictable bannings that occur. Mystical Tutor and Survival of the Fittest are probably the best example of this in effect.
So what are some solutions?
1. When WotC designs cards, it should do so with all formats in consideration. This prevents cards like Vengevine (interacting with Survival of the Fittest) and Mental Misstep from warping the format. Tom LaPille's comment seems to suggest that either A. The printing of Mental Misstep was a mistake and he is attempting to sarcastically brush it off or B. The printing was intentional and they understood the impact the card would have on the format. Therefore, Tom is implicitly stating that a healthy Legacy format is one in which players are not be able to play one casting cost spells. The likely reason why he made that comment is that R&D understands that Mental Misstep is probably a mistake. On the off hand chance the latter is true, then the issues with Legacy run deeper if R&D believes that it is okay to invalidate a pool of cards based on their casting.
At this point, the question we usually asking is whether or not Mental Misstep should be banned. However, the real question we should ask is should this card have been printed in the first place? In a competitive game, people are going to play the cards that give them the greatest percentage of winning. Its not our fault for playing with the cards, because the reality is that you don't out of some form of protest, others will. However, it is our fault if we feel there is something amuck in the design and management of the game and we choose not to act to stop it.
2. WotC should develop and/or release guides detailing what a healthy format is. Mystical Tutor is a prime example of why the lack of a clear set of guidelines leads to cards being banned for no particular reason. You can read the article here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/96) which details the "process" by which WotC decided to ban Mystical Tutor. Additionally, Survival of the Fittest was banned for being "dominate" but if its based on synergistic interactions of cards putting up results, then Force of Will, Brainstorm, Wasteland and possibly Mental Misstep should have been banned a long time ago. This argument also should not be looked at as being unidirectional, especially with the creation of Modern. If WotC is willing to go overboard with protecting Modern from control and combo archetypes, then maybe Legacy should be the format where control and combo are the most viable decks. Basically, what this comes down to is that there isn't a good reason why the process of banning a card shouldn't be streamed line and why it should be transparent.
These are just my thoughts, but my hope is that the conversation in this thread does not devolve into discussions of wanting to ban specific cards. We've had that discussion more times that I think most members care to recall on these boards. If the members on this site are really some of the better Legacy players who care about the format, we need to move past these types of simple and shortsighted discussions. Rather, the questions we should be asking, the discussions we ought to be having, should relate to the current management and future design of Magic as it relates to Legacy (and by extension all formats). Its apparent that past discussions on these forums (and others) about banning specific cards have not lead to their banning. This fact should give us all the more incentive to move the conversation to a different direction.
To start with, lets talk about the problem in Legacy. First, problem isn't that certain decks are viable and other are not. These things will flux depending on a number of factors. For example, location is a significant variable; this point was well demonstrated in the latest write up (http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=1874) over at Eternal Central which shows the differences between European and American Legacy events. Second, the number or percentage of specific cards that appear in a given number of Top 8's may be an issue, but its only symptomatic of the real problem. The real issue is that WotC doesn't given Legacy the necessary attention in order to be a "healthy" format. There are several ways in which WotC neglects Legacy.
First, WotC does not play test cards when they design with Legacy in mind. For example, when Vengevine was printed, Fauna Shaman was legal in the format. Its is likely that someone in their R&D group attempted to use this combination. However, how unforeseeable or difficult would it of been to connect the dots and think about Vengevine and Survival of the Fittest interacting? If you want a more recent example, Tom LaPille Tweet'd "Isn't the best way to get around Mental Misstep in Legacy to just not play any one mana cards?" As I stated above, different decks will be viable at different times for a number of reasons. However, when R&D is suggesting that not playing cards of a certain mana cost is the best way to access the format, then something seems to be wrong. This transitions into my next point which is
There is not a clear definition of what is or what is not a healthy format. I don't know if I am alone in this observation, but it appears to me that WotC bans cards more on feel than on results in Legacy.The result is unpredictable bannings that occur. Mystical Tutor and Survival of the Fittest are probably the best example of this in effect.
So what are some solutions?
1. When WotC designs cards, it should do so with all formats in consideration. This prevents cards like Vengevine (interacting with Survival of the Fittest) and Mental Misstep from warping the format. Tom LaPille's comment seems to suggest that either A. The printing of Mental Misstep was a mistake and he is attempting to sarcastically brush it off or B. The printing was intentional and they understood the impact the card would have on the format. Therefore, Tom is implicitly stating that a healthy Legacy format is one in which players are not be able to play one casting cost spells. The likely reason why he made that comment is that R&D understands that Mental Misstep is probably a mistake. On the off hand chance the latter is true, then the issues with Legacy run deeper if R&D believes that it is okay to invalidate a pool of cards based on their casting.
At this point, the question we usually asking is whether or not Mental Misstep should be banned. However, the real question we should ask is should this card have been printed in the first place? In a competitive game, people are going to play the cards that give them the greatest percentage of winning. Its not our fault for playing with the cards, because the reality is that you don't out of some form of protest, others will. However, it is our fault if we feel there is something amuck in the design and management of the game and we choose not to act to stop it.
2. WotC should develop and/or release guides detailing what a healthy format is. Mystical Tutor is a prime example of why the lack of a clear set of guidelines leads to cards being banned for no particular reason. You can read the article here (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ld/96) which details the "process" by which WotC decided to ban Mystical Tutor. Additionally, Survival of the Fittest was banned for being "dominate" but if its based on synergistic interactions of cards putting up results, then Force of Will, Brainstorm, Wasteland and possibly Mental Misstep should have been banned a long time ago. This argument also should not be looked at as being unidirectional, especially with the creation of Modern. If WotC is willing to go overboard with protecting Modern from control and combo archetypes, then maybe Legacy should be the format where control and combo are the most viable decks. Basically, what this comes down to is that there isn't a good reason why the process of banning a card shouldn't be streamed line and why it should be transparent.
These are just my thoughts, but my hope is that the conversation in this thread does not devolve into discussions of wanting to ban specific cards. We've had that discussion more times that I think most members care to recall on these boards. If the members on this site are really some of the better Legacy players who care about the format, we need to move past these types of simple and shortsighted discussions. Rather, the questions we should be asking, the discussions we ought to be having, should relate to the current management and future design of Magic as it relates to Legacy (and by extension all formats). Its apparent that past discussions on these forums (and others) about banning specific cards have not lead to their banning. This fact should give us all the more incentive to move the conversation to a different direction.