Ponder vs. Preordain

[mcfarland]

I've noticed that a lot of Modern blue lists are running Preordain over Ponder. Neither is strictly better than the other, but to me it feels like Ponder is generally stronger than Preordain.

I haven't played standard in years, but checking out Top 8 lists it seems like Preordains were well played (during M11) and Ponders weren't in too many lists (during M10).

What am I missing?

[majikal]

Preordain is better in control decks because you want to filter out the useless cards over time. It's more incremental selection, allowing you to gain better card quality. Since Brainstorm + Fetchland is out, Preordain is the next best thing.

Ponder is better when you need a specific card RIGHT NOW, and should see more play in combo decks.

[Fuzzy]

Ponder is better when you look for a specific card in your deck.

Preordain is better when every card in your deck is good.

[perm]

If you run heavy fetches, ponder is probably better

[Phoenix Ignition]

I prefer preordain in decks that have those silver bullet cards in them because let's say turn one you're looking to just hit consistent land drops and you ponder into land, nonland, nonland, do you keep it or shuffle and pray? Preordain would let you flip a card (like an unnecessary silver bullet) to the bottom.

Now if you're looking for silver bullet cards Ponder does see 4 instead of 3, but generally my silver bullets all have their own ways of being found (Green Sun's Zenith).

[Mr. Safety]

@Fuzzy: I would much rather use Peer Through Depths than Preordain in a combo deck...I'm guessing that most of the time it has a lot more relivance than Preordain.

Just agreeing with a few extra words tossed in...thanks for the post, I was debating Preordain for Swath/Storm but now I'm going with PtD (also big thanks to metalworker who tipped me off in the R/u storm thread)

[Maveric78f]

It's also a question of shuffling effects. Ponder is horrible without shuffling effect. Preordain is low tech when you have to shuffle right after filtering bad cards.

Combo decks that can afford to play U should play both of them. I would say the same for control decks. In aggro control, I would generally prefer Ponder, because you see 1 more cards and geenrally play a lot of shuffling effects (fetches+GSZ). In aggro, just please, don't play cantrips.

Peer through depth is not comparable at all, it does not find lands, it costs twice and it generally doesn't find the main combo elements (in Splinter Twin/Pyromancer) or too dangerous to be played (eggless omelet). If you start benchmarking Peer Through Depth, then you should also include Ancient Stirring, and this is completely irrelevant.

[Mr. Safety]

I respectfully disagree...in Pyromancer Swath, Peer Through Depths it's the best dig spell in the whole deck. It gets mana ramp spells or more dig spells. The 2 mana is irrelivant, because of all the Rituals.

[Tammit67]

I respectfully disagree...in Pyromancer Swath, Peer Through Depths it's the best dig spell in the whole deck. It gets mana ramp spells or more dig spells. The 2 mana is irrelivant, because of all the Rituals.

Two mana is highly relevant. Often times I find myself in need of one other card, and if it was in the top 3, i could both ponder and combo off that turn, instead of having to pass the turn. I mean sure, you can ritual then peer in hopes of not wasting your ritual, but i'd rather not go all in. It is an amazing dig spell, to be sure, but hitting land drops is more important in a lot of matchups.

I'd consider ponder/preordain in nearly any deck running blue. I've only ever played peer in solidarity and dragon storm/swath. They serve completely different roles for different decks. You'd rather not run peer unless you can count on it hitting your important cards, aka modern storm.

[Maveric78f]

I respectfully disagree...in Pyromancer Swath, Peer Through Depths it's the best dig spell in the whole deck. It gets mana ramp spells or more dig spells. The 2 mana is irrelivant, because of all the Rituals.

I did not say that peer was crap, or unplayable in modern, but that the comparison with 1CC cantrips was irrelevant.

[lorddotm]

Preordain is a lot better when you aren't a combo deck, if you are a combo deck, play both. End of discussion?

[GGoober]

Ponder is better when you look for a specific card in your deck.

Preordain is better when every card in your deck is good.

Why are you playing bad cards in your deck? lol

I personally have always stood by Ponder, but the more I use Preordain, the more I feel that Preordain is more consistently finding the cards that win games (even if it means a slightly less chance of finding that very specific card)

[Mr. Safety]

Preordain is a lot better when you aren't a combo deck, if you are a combo deck, play both. End of discussion?

Or curse Wizards and play neither in modern, lol.