[SCD] Snapcaster Mage

[Humphrey]

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/4198/e5119d8c27d74eb68b3aa36.png


Tiago Chen's Invitational Card
Snapcaster Mage 1U 2/1
Human Wizard
Flash
When ~ come sinto play, target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard gains flashback until end of turn. Flash back cost is its mana cost.



Beyond Broken. Its sick in every deck that runs Brainstorm, Misstep, Swords.
But I guess you can even build new stuff with this guy in mind.

[Rizso]

Riptide Lab makes him insane :P.

[TsumiBand]

Holy shit. I want to try it in my bad High Tide deck. Sorry Cloud of Fairies, there's a new Snap target in town.

Way stronger than Recoup, just for the fact that it hits Instants. Very cool.

[Humphrey]

well you have to remove the spell after flashbacking so its not an endless recurring of something. Lab is still a casual card ;)

But this guy you can even run in stormcombo

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Riptide Lab makes him insane :P.

And Venser, maybe Spellstutter Sprite, Trinket Mage, possibly even Selkie Hedge-Mage?

I dunno, this guy might push Wizards into the realm of being an actual thing. Good call on Riptides, seems like they're likely to go up.

[Nidd]

Oh. My. God.

That looks busted.

[Rizso]

well you have to remove the spell after flashbacking so its not an endless recurring of something. Lab is still a casual card ;)

But this guy you can even run in stormcombo

Lab already sees play with Spellstuttersprite.

edit:So much double posts going on...

[thefreakaccident]

Chen looks silly in that picture...

[OurSerratedDust]

Just what the format needs! More good blue cards!

[Humphrey]

well, why play clique when u can flashback your inqusition, duress or thoughtseize

about lab, its to expensive. you dont want to pay 5 mana for a brainstorm

[Finn]

I'm pretty sure this card is going to see plenty of airtime in Legacy. It is aggressively costed and is good early as well as late.

So, another card to make blue even stupider. If it's megarare, I will be upset.

[SageShadows]

If I recall, it's only regular rare, not super duper rare.

[Nihil Credo]

Yep.

People had been wondering how high a regular rare could get in the SUPER ULTRA MYTHIC RARE RAAAAARRGHHHH era. I guess we're about to find out.

[GGoober]

ZOMG, you can flashback Ancestral Visions and draw another 3 for no mana!!!

Stock up on your visions now!

[OurSerratedDust]

ZOMG, you can flashback Ancestral Visions and draw another 3 for no mana!!!

Stock up on your visions now!

Nope.

[frenchy-man]

Just bought my own playset. With the uprising of modern, this card will surely be one of the MVP of modern, if not legacy.

[dontbiteitholmes]

ZOMG, you can flashback Ancestral Visions and draw another 3 for no mana!!!

Stock up on your visions now!

Doesn't work. Visions has no mana cost so it can't be flashbacked with this for the same reason it can't be cast from hand.

I'm not really seeing it with this guy. I mean he is kinda cool but I feel his ability is more cute than actually playable in Legacy. I mean you cast him for 2 then you have to pay the flashback cost so figure 3 or 4 mana and at that point I'd rather be casting a Vendillion Clique or just run Ponder or Preordain in his slot since 90% of the time you are going to be recasting Brainstorm, Thoughtseize or Swords with him. He's a dead card until turn 3 most of the time since you are going to either not have 3 mana or not have a card worth recasting in the yard and that brings me back to why not cast Clique at that point.

I wouldn't be super surprised if he does end up seeing a little bit of play and even if he ends up being better than I expect in some fishy deck at some point, but at the same time I don't think he's anything special.

[dahcmai]

Yeah, he's actually that good. 2 mana for a Recoup effect in a way better color for it. Yeah, I'll buy that. He's pretty silly good. Even if you're only doing simple stuff, it's a heck of a swing. Getting a free body out of the deal is just gravy. Pre-ordering foils for this one.

[2Rach]

Fuck you Wizards, make Stoneblade/Cawblade better, that's definitely the right move. :rolleyes: First Brainstorm, then, well, Brainstorm, and now this. I think I might have to play blue now.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Doesn't work. Visions has no mana cost so it can't be flashbacked with this for the same reason it can't be cast from hand.

I'm not really seeing it with this guy. I mean he is kinda cool but I feel his ability is more cute than actually playable in Legacy. I mean you cast him for 2 then you have to pay the flashback cost so figure 3 or 4 mana and at that point I'd rather be casting a Vendillion Clique or just run Ponder or Preordain in his slot since 90% of the time you are going to be recasting Brainstorm, Thoughtseize or Swords with him. He's a dead card until turn 3 most of the time since you are going to either not have 3 mana or not have a card worth recasting in the yard and that brings me back to why not cast Clique at that point.

I wouldn't be super surprised if he does end up seeing a little bit of play and even if he ends up being better than I expect in some fishy deck at some point, but at the same time I don't think he's anything special.

His power doesn't lie in "just" being a 2/1 flash plus brainstorm for 1UU, its the versatility. Need cards, get Brainstorm. Goyf in the way? Get Swords. The list goes on. Also, don't forget has has flash so he can get back Misstep and such.

Personally Im already living the dream of Thoughtseize->Hymn->Mage+Seize->Mage+Hymn. So freakin good.

[kiblast]

you dont want to pay 5 mana for a brainstorm

Yes I want. I can stay open for my Spellstutter bounce or I can stay open to re cast my Brainstorm from the graveyard eot. I don't know what you are saying, but free Brainstorms /Swords are welcome in my deck, even if they cost 5cc.

[SpikeyMikey]

Flash is the only reason this card is good. Otherwise, it's half as effective as Eternal Witness but pitches to Force of Will. With Flash, being able to hold him until EoT to Misstep or Brainstorm as needed is nice. But he doesn't allow you to reuse Force of Will, which makes me kind of sad. All in all, a neat mechanic, and it's an autoinclude for blue in T2, but not particularly exciting for Legacy. Playable, but not a game changer.

[Tacosnape]

This guy's incredibly fucking bonkers. Like, when this guy is released, it's official. Nonblue is unplayable in Legacy.

[Angelfire]

If I target Force of Will in my GY can I use the alternate cost?

[keys]

If I target Force of Will in my GY can I use the alternate cost?

No. It's flashback cost becomes its mana cost.

[ScatmanX]

about lab, its to expensive. you dont want to pay 5 mana for a brainstorm
I don't know if this is a troll, because I've read the (almost) exact same thing about Jace, the Mindsculptor...

[f|i[p]]

Great!! another great card for blue!!!

This will see a lot of play since its very very useful.

Blue in legacy is soo crazy ...

[allek]

UW Fish/Fae might make a comeback with this card. Excellent overall, bonkers with all already good spells. Can't wait to play this with Curfew and Spellstutters.

[.nemesis]

UW Fish/Fae might make a comeback with this card. Excellent overall, bonkers with all already good spells. Can't wait to play this with Curfew and Spellstutters.

You might want to combo that with Ninja of the Deep Hours.

NinjaFish is back in town... YEAH!

[clavio]

This guy's incredibly fucking bonkers. Like, when this guy is released, it's official. Nonblue is unplayable in Legacy.

I disagree with this. He's good, but he's not THAT good. It will be playable, but I don't think legacy is going to change too much from this card. I would certainly put him below things like...dark confidant.

[Shawon]

Hey, Mike Flores is finally on a Magic card!

Snapcaster Mage's pretty good. I'm excited to see what decks can abuse him. There's got to be a more convenient use of him other than rebuying Brainstorms and StPs.

Even though I don't play Vintage, I can't believe this card is going to stay unrestricted once it's legal in that format. Regrowth is restricted, only because it rebuys Ancestral Recall. Snapcaster does the same thing, except it's blue.

[tsabo_tavoc]

This guy's incredibly fucking bonkers. Like, when this guy is released, it's official. Nonblue is unplayable in Legacy.

Post Innistrad Legacy will become the bluest format ever, until they ban Brainstorm, or people just rage quit and play Modern.

[Finn]

One hurdle, and it is a to using this guy, is finding a way to consistently have a sufficient number of instants in your graveyard to actually have something to flash back.

See, you can Vial him in. The obvious reason that is important is to reduce the need to keep 3 mana open in expectation of using him. The other reason, and ultimately the more important one is for deck design. Vial decks absolutely need either card advantage or tempo advantage involved with using the Vial or it does not work. Just ask Slivers. The biggest advantage Merfolk has is the fact that it effectively uses Vial, Force of Will, and Wasteland in the same deck. There is a deficiency in the number of playable blue creatures in Legacy, which makes it very had to pull a deck together with those key cards. And the price you pay is having to use the Merfolk creature type. UW Tempo has been trying to make the same setup work, but it is inconsistent due to low blue count and stepping all over itself with anti-tempo from time to time. It is possible that his guy might be what is needed to make a deck like that work very well, possibly even in monoblue. But when you go about actually making the deck, you are going to find that having the added constraint of keeping the instant count high also is going to be a bit of a pain. And Force of Will does not count.

That means that he really can only go into the kinds of blue decks we already see.

BOOORRRRIIINNNNNGGGG

[ThoSha]

Its a sad day for those like me, who thought non blue decks were still playable in legacy. Byebye 5 color versatility.

[Amon Amarth]

I, for one, welcome our new Blue overlords.

[DrJones]

I, for one, welcome our new Blue overlords.They have been there for the past 5 years.

[Rizso]

Any format blue hasnt been the best or most played color? Can only think of standard shards / zen pre jace.

Anyway I think this card is still gonna be intersting to play with and against.

[SpikeyMikey]

I think that the hype bus is a little over crowded. What are you cutting to fit this guy in?

[DrJones]

I think that the hype bus is a little over crowded. What are you cutting to fit this guy in?Another color.

[SpikeyMikey]

Another color.

Yeah, but here's the thing: blue without green can't win (combo not withstanding). And you need one of the other 3 for removal. But take NO RUG For example. What is weak enough in that deck that you would cut it for this?

[AngryTroll]

Yeah, but here's the thing: blue without green can't win (combo not withstanding). And you need one of the other 3 for removal. But take NO RUG For example. What is weak enough in that deck that you would cut it for this?

Lorescale Coatl, which is saying something, because that card has been making every non-blue deck unplayable in Legacy since way back in 2009.

[Final Fortune]

Talk about overrated, if it weren't for Flash he'd be worse than Trinket Mage - let me know when some one finds a better, practical use for him that doesn't involve Bear + Brainstorm or Swords to Plowshares because if this card is "busted" it's busted in High Tide maybe.

[DrJones]

You know a card is broken when even the people saying it's overrated have to include in their reasoning "if this card was actually a different card, then it wouldn't be better than this other awesome card".

some examples:
Snapcaster Mage + Stifle = destroy two lands.
Snapcaster Mage + Mental Misstep = two free timewalks in a round.
Snapcaster Mage + lightning bolt = kill tarmogoyf
Snapcaster Mage + Curfew = return progenitus/emrakul to hand and have another go at snapcaster mage.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Mark my words: This card's printing will enable some absolutely stupid-broken combo deck. If not soon, then eventually.

[lordofthepit]

I think this card is really good. But not good enough to warp the format (i.e. Mental Misstep) or even make a significant dent in it (i.e. Jace).

There's a possibility that you can build some stupid combo deck out of it, but I don't see it happening. An aggressively costed 2/1 body in Legacy isn't that special, so you're not necessarily "card advantage" out of this Mage. Where I see it being useful is in Stoneblade type decks where this acts as an instant speed Regrowth on a body in decks that naturally put a lot of cards in the graveyard anyway. In the mid-to-late game, I can see it grabbing an extra Swords to Plowshares or Brainstorm for reuse, which is quite strong. But it's not anything the format can't handle.

(Disclaimer: of course, I could be wrong)

[HdH_Cthulhu]

You know a card is broken when even the people saying it's overrated have to include in their reasoning "if this card was actually a different card, then it wouldn't be better than this other awesome card".

some examples:
Snapcaster Mage + Stifle = destroy two lands.
Snapcaster Mage + Mental Misstep = two free timewalks in a round.
Snapcaster Mage + lightning bolt = kill tarmogoyf
Snapcaster Mage + Curfew = return progenitus/emrakul to hand and have another go at snapcaster mage.

Play your bolt flashback your ponder shrink Goyf for 1. You have to be somewhat lucky, but goyfshrinking is a bonus...

Edit: Lets try him in TA. What to cut?

[Bruticus]

This would totally fit in red, why does it have to be blue? There are other colors in this game, right?

[Rizso]

Domain Zoo got a reason to have blue cards now! Flash backing that Tribal Flame for extra 5 damage.

[DrJones]

This would totally fit in red, why does it have to be blue? There are other colors in this game, right?That's R&D's answer for being unable to reprint the duals. Have people play just basic islands! :P

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Lorescale Coatl, which is saying something, because that card has been making every non-blue deck unplayable in Legacy since way back in 2009.

I see what you did there.

I think people are definitely overhyping the card a bit but it's definitely Legacy playable.

(Hell, I think Lorescale is Legacy playable, it's just being held back by the omnipresence of Lavamancer.)

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Holy shit. I want to try it in my bad High Tide deck. Sorry Cloud of Fairies, there's a new Snap target in town.

Way stronger than Recoup, just for the fact that it hits Instants. Very cool.

Wow this interaction is so busted!

Three islands.
High Tide, SCM -> High Tide, Snap -> SCM, High Tide, SCM -> Snap, Snap -> SCM =
Two untapped islands two high tides and a Snapcaster Mage in your hand.

lol SNAP caster mage obv good with snap xD

[That_RaginG_Homo]

Really, none of the things this guy can do are broken, and all of them are conditional (drawing a copy of the card you want to flash back). Pretty much everything this guy can do is pretty similar to Spellstutter Sprite, Gatekeeper of Malikar/Flametongue Kavu, or Wistful Selkie. He's also effectively 3cmc, unless your copying Misstep. I proxied him up for a few games, and hes definitely good, I dont think hes going to make a new deck, and hes not nearly as broken as a lot fo you are making him out to be in the current decks.

On the other hand, I wanna see what/if High Tide will cuz for this guy + Snap.

[lorddotm]

You guys think that this guy is going to take over Legacy? Unreal. If it is going to be broken, it will sure as fuck not be in a control deck, but rather be in Solidarity (which I think is actually better with this than Spiral Tide is) or Spiral Tide or some other fun and degenerate combo deck.

However, if Misstep is banned in September, we can use Thoughtseize and friends to reliably take care of any damage he may cause.

If we want blue to stop being so omnipresent, banning Misstep is going to be far more effective than banning Brainstorm (because banning Brainstorm will have tons of people leaving Legacy en mass since it will just be a poorly supported Modern).

TL;DR
If he's going to be broken it will be in Combo, not Control, and ban Misstep.

[ThoSha]

Come to think about it, it would make UW Blink playable in legacy.
That would be really cool, as i craved this deck since it was good in T2.
Venser, Momentary Blink, Snapcaster Mage, Riftwing Cloudskate seems like fun.
Add Turn to Mist and you have an reliable engine.

[atv]

This would totally fit in red, why does it have to be blue? There are other colors in this game, right?

Tiago most likely wanted it to be blue.

[sligh16]

yay! another broken blue card! thx wizards :rolleyes:

[Bruticus]

I don't think banning misstep is the answer. I think it's basically a powerful but ultimately fair card that stops broken things and gives non-blue, or blue splash decks lots of design potential. Plus, it slowed the meta down, allowing for ramp/midrange (which could possibly allow for more board control if the meta shifted...) but I'd really like to see the other colors get some treatment. Black got a strong Liliana, but does green really need so many Garruk's?

[Guy I Don't Know]

Snapcaster + Hightide will be the best interaction I think. The control decks most likely will not play it after the first year hype. The cool thing is that with cloud of faeries and snapcaster mage, High tide decks may be able to have a transformational sideboard if they wanted.

[Rizso]

Why would we want to ban Mental Misstep really? I much rather play in an enviroment with mental misstep and jace then being arround Counterbalance.

Have you seen the modern format? Top 8 pretty much only combo decks, Infect blazing shoal killing someone on turn 2 with pact of negation and Slaughter Pact backup. Or Breach Through killing someone turn 1 with blightsteel or slower with protection turn 2 / 3 emrakul or blightsteel. Format without Force of will or Misstep..

[dahcmai]

It's more of a response to the lack of Force of Will. Got your wish, how do you like it? A format without Force. Addressed to whiners of that card. lol Misstep only snags so much. It's really good, but it's not the cause of a combo heavy meta, the lack of Force has way more to do with that.

Did they really expect Modern to be anything else? Especially, with everyone talking about how good Zoo was. Heh.

now the question is, do they ban or unban to fix it?

[lordofthepit]

Have you seen the modern format? Top 8 pretty much only combo decks, Infect blazing shoal killing someone on turn 2 with pact of negation and Slaughter Pact backup. Or Breach Through killing someone turn 1 with blightsteel or slower with protection turn 2 / 3 emrakul or blightsteel. Format without Force of will or Misstep..

The format needs Wasteland and a whole slew of other cards (plus the old-school card frames) badly.

It seems like an absolutely miserable format. Even during the worst periods of Legacy (read: Flash Hulk), the metagame was significantly more diverse--see 3 Flash Hulk, 1 Goblins, 1 Suicide Black, 1 Deadguy Ale, 1 UWb Fish, and 1 Canadian Threshold at GP Columbus. I do not see the appeal of the format beyond the fact that it has a cheaper barrier of entry than Legacy, and even in that regard it is failing as rampant speculation is taking over. But in the end, it seems to me that it resembles more of an Extended format than a true Eternal one.

[SpikeyMikey]

I think Wizards did expect non-combo decks to be competitive, but that's because the guy in charge of the banned list was Tom "Great Sable Stag" LaPille. What do you expect from him?

The thing that would end the dominance of NO RUG and UW Mystic (and lets face it, that's what's really stagnating right now, not "blue") is to run more Spell Pierce. Because those decks don't give a fuck about Mental Misstep. So you play this 'godly' free counter that sucks ass against the 2 best decks in the format and lose and then wonder why. And when people learn that Spell Pierce is still a good answer to Jace TMS and Natural Order (and other high CMC spells that see lots of play in a slowed down format) and that Wasteland is still a good card, then suddenly all those non-blue midrange decks come back again.

Finally, to try and get this back on topic, the effect you get (Recoup) is strictly worse than the effect on Eternal Witness. Unquestionably. Regrowth is always bertter than Recoup. The difference is that it's blue (pitches to Force of Will) and has Flash. As far as combat goes, it's useless. It doesn't match up with Tarmogoyf, Wild Nacatl, or any other creature in this format. So it almost could've been a wall without making any difference in its functionality. Vendilion Clique is useful because it has a useful ability, has flash and is evasive. Evasion is huge.this has a useful ability and has flash, but the fact that it has a body attached is barely relevant. At which point, you're playing an instant speed blue Recoup. Stronger than the original, to be sure, but hardly a format wrecker.

[lorddotm]

Why would we want to ban Mental Misstep really? I much rather play in an enviroment with mental misstep and jace then being arround Counterbalance.


Thankfully, Counterbalance was pretty much unplayable after Grand Prix Columbus.

Anyone who denies the format was not 100% better during the time between Survival and Misstep is delusional.

[TkDodo]

Pretty much everything this guy can do is pretty similar to Spellstutter Sprite, Gatekeeper of Malikar/Flametongue Kavu, or Wistful Selkie.


Except that he can do ALL of them, depending on what you need the most right now. He can calso Vendilion Clique your opponent if you flashback a Thoughtseize (of course, only in your turn, but at least you get a "real" discard effect). That's like saying "Pretty much everything Jace, the Mind Sculptor can do is pretty similar to Brainstorm, Unsummon and Eye Spy. It's the versatility that makes him so strong.



Where I see it being useful is in Stoneblade type decks where this acts as an instant speed Regrowth on a body in decks that naturally put a lot of cards in the graveyard anyway. In the mid-to-late game, I can see it grabbing an extra Swords to Plowshares or Brainstorm for reuse, which is quite strong. But it's not anything the format can't handle.


That's exactly where I see him, too. Why are people saying there have to be better things than rebuying a Swords to Plowshares or a Brainstrom? These are among the top spells in legacy period, so rebuying them makes a lot of sense to me. In UW Stoneblade, I've often faced the situation where 4 StoP were not enough, so playing him as a 2-of would allow me to have virtually 6 swords, and if I don't need anything, I can at least Brainstorm or Ponder to have a beater which replaces himself and can carry a sword. And if people are also attacking with their Dark Confidants/Noble Hierarch/Whatever, I would love myself an instant speed suprise blocker which also brainstorms for extra value. This card offers so many solid 2-for-1s!

[Final Fortune]

I'm not saying the card isn't good, because it is, but it's not going to "overrun" the format like people are suggesting. Unless it can be broken in Combo, it's best application is going to be replacing Standstill and/or Spellstutter Sprite in Stoneforge Control and become a mid game, marginally selective, pseudo card advantage engine.

I mean just show me one, good deck that abuses this guy that isn't just U/w/x Fish - people are literrly going crazy over a card that's probably not as good as Dark Confident.

[TsumiBand]

I'm not saying the card isn't good, because it is, but it's not going to "overrun" the format like people are suggesting. Unless it can be broken in Combo, it's best application is going to be replacing Standstill and/or Spellstutter Sprite in Stoneforge Control and become a mid game, marginally selective, pseudo card advantage engine.

I mean just show me one, good deck that abuses this guy that isn't just U/w/x Fish.

As a theoretical include; Spring Tide? A deck that doesn't give a shit about how much mana things cost (to a point) would probably gush over being able to Recoup a Meditate or Ideas Unbound or Turnabout. In that deck it's basically Merchant Scroll 5 - 8 that you can Regrowth by Snapping it.

[bruizar]

Besides the straight forward utility cards like brainstorm and plowshares, I really like this in conjunction with Fire // Ice in a UWR build. Mage and Ice´s ability to get a draw, some tempo and a body is really good. Flashing in Snapcaster with Fire in the combat step also gives you a lot of reach as you can block and deal damage, potentially killing anywhere between 1 and 3 creatures.

I also like Unearth/Reanimate with this card.

[Zunam]

Snapcaster Mage is a freakin' undercosted blue Yawgmoth's Will with a body!

To be honest I don't see why this card is hyped that much.

Yes, it is Legacy playable and will definitely see some play across all formats (the biggest impact will be on Vintage in my opinion) but I don't see it fitting into too many of the existing blue decks.

Even in UW(x)-Stone-Blade there is no real space for this creature. The only slot I could imagine is Spellstutter Sprite but I think Spellstutter is still better overall in that deck even though Snapcaster Mage would allow for some broken play at times.

[Lancer]

I'm not sure about this guy. Flashbacking a Brainstorm is the most I can see with this guy, discard maybe could use him but I dont see the point on playing him to flashback a discard spell which is likely to happen on turn 3 or 4. I could be wrong on that.

At best, I'm guessing a counter/burn deck will evolve from him, although a u1+r= bolt is silly.

[TkDodo]

I'm not sure about this guy. Flashbacking a Brainstorm is the most I can see with this guy, discard maybe could use him but I dont see the point on playing him to flashback a discard spell which is likely to happen on turn 3 or 4. I could be wrong on that.

At best, I'm guessing a counter/burn deck will evolve from him, although a u1+r= bolt is silly.

Sure, the discard spell is not the best option, since the whole "flash" part of the creature becomes useless. However, I don't get why you think a 1u+r=bolt+body is "silly". If thats what you need at the moment, the mage gives it to you. It's much worse to draw a bolt off the top when you don't need it. If instead you draw the mage, you still get the bolt if you need it (for a cost of +1u and provided that the card is in you gy) or any other spell in your graveyard. Since I'm never disappointed in topdecking a Brainstorm, I would be very happy to have additional, virtual Brainstorms in my deck that can also remove creatures from the game.

[Final Fortune]

Ok, I'm sold on this replacing Spellstutter Sprite and/or Ancestral Visions in Stoneblade, between Mental Misstep, Spellsnare, Swords to Plowshares, Brainstorm and Preordain it has a lot of utility and let's the deck run 12+ creatures for Equipment.

Riptide Laboratory is looking more than "cute," it's like a slightly more expensive Jayemdae Tome

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

[conboy31]

I am also intrigued about his utility in vintage. Just imagine playing him mid combat, flashing back a vamp/mystical/recall/x and blocking an attacking confidant/welder/monkey. So much value.

[TkDodo]

The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

I would not say better than Clique, but I think comparing it to Clique makes more sense than all these comparisons to, for example, Dark Confidant. Because mostly, he will cost 3 mana (1U+U or 1U+W most of the time I guess), just like Clique, and he is a flash creature with 1 toughness that can be used as an instant blocker. Also, both provide utility, Clique by removing a threat from opponents hand and the Mage by improving our hand or removing a threat from the board. The mage lacks the "being a reasonable clock" part that Clique has, but he makes this up by being a real 2-for-1.

[death]

In Solidarity, the card's role is more comparable to Flash of Insight, than Twincast. It allows you to replay whatever used business spell is in your graveyard instead of digging for business. It is cheaper than FoI. If you draw it after a Brainstorm, then it's better than Twincast because you get to chose the business spell you need to 'snapcast' in order to advance (a High Tide/Reset, or draw engine). With Twincast however, you cast it asap in response to a spell which in effect doesn't really make the best out of your available mana.

[TsumiBand]

The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

I don't know if you were talking to me specifically, but FWIW I think Sorcery-speed Tide will appreciate this guy. For my part I'll probably never own Candelabra of Tawnos; for this reason I'm compelled to continue to run Cloud of Fairies and Snap. With SCM and Snap you can basically Scroll for any card in your graveyard, then Snap him, untap and do it again. You can be a geek and just stroke your own Storm count by playing SCM, get Snap from your yard, bounce SCM, repeat till you're out of Snaps.

I don't think it's a 4-of, but I think I want to goldfish it before I decide it's terrible.

[Final Fortune]

The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

Just run both, Vendilion Clique is still pro-active disruption for resolving Jace, the Mind Sculptor and Stoneforge Mystic and an evasive, equipment carrying beater, you can't necessarily substitute one for the other if your objective is to resolve your threats and have a Plan B beatdown strategy that's actually worth a damn.

[Oibade]

The point is, in my opinion, the impact this card has on mid-late game.
With a graveyard full of instants and sorceries (as you would expect in mid-late game), this card could be "any card, copy number 5-8" plus a body to swing / chump-block, all at instant speed.

You could flashback brainstorm, stp, counterspell of sorts, stifle, bolt, NO...

Topdecking this card in late game could be wrecking for the opponent. Graveyard hate could be necessary against every deck packing blue (and this, of course).

Torpor Orb, anyone?

[SpikeyMikey]

The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

Clique is evasive, which makes it way better. Clique is an actual clock, Snapcaster is chump fodder.

[TkDodo]

The point is, in my opinion, the impact this card has on mid-late game.
With a graveyard full of instants and sorceries (as you would expect in mid-late game), this card could be "any card, copy number 5-8" plus a body to swing / chump-block, all at instant speed.

You could flashback brainstorm, stp, counterspell of sorts, stifle, bolt, NO...

Topdecking this card in late game could be wrecking for the opponent. Graveyard hate could be necessary against every deck packing blue (and this, of course).

Torpor Orb, anyone?

I start to like Scavenging Ooze in green decks as a 1-of GSZ target - besides of his usual functionality, he totally wrecks the new Mage, because you can just exile the targeted card in response to the enters-the-battlefield trigger.


Clique is evasive, which makes it way better. Clique is an actual clock, Snapcaster is chump fodder.

Except that Clique does nothing if you are behind on board, like to a Goyf, KotR, Tombstalker and so on..

[frenchy-man]

4 Noble hierarch
4 kotr
3 Snapcaster mage
3 Stoneforge mystic
4 Spellstutter sprite
1 vendilion clique

4 Aether vial
4 Mental misstep
3 Force of will
4 stp
1 Battleskull
1 sword of feast and famine
4 brainstorm

3 misty rainforest
4 windswept heath
4 tropical island
1 Tundra
1 savannah
1 Forest
1 Plain
4 Wasteland
1 Maze of ith
1 Riptide laboratory


Side :

1 Force of will
3 Meddling mage
2 k-grip
3 Surgical extraction
1 sofi
1 Jitte
2 relic of progenitus
1 Karakas


This kind of list seems very strong, playing both the explosivity, the threat density of bant and the strong late game of caw go/stoneblade.
And it's almost a wizard deck :)

[ivanpei]

I don't think this card is the "2nd coming" like most people claim. It's pretty good and it's blue but the comparisons with clique are off center. This card is totally different. Clique is an evasive threat with built in disruption. You want him against combo and control, while being mediocre against aggro.

Snapcaster is also mediocre against aggro since the body is irrelevant, so-so against combo because you need to have another spell in the yard already for it to be relevant. Pretty good against control and midrange but not absolutely backbreaking. I don't think it's as impressive as people make it out to be.

I think a 2/1 body is nowhere near as impressive as a 3/1 flyer. The evasion makes exalted clique a game winning creature. Snapcaster suffers from eternal witness/trinket Mage syndrome. It is excellent in long games but early on, it is just ok and pretty narrow. A 2/1 body is very average.

In legacy you want stuff that does something NOW. Clique is just that. You strip your opponents best card immediately and you get a 3/1 flyer. That's pretty insane. Snapcaster make you wait a bit to milk max value. Also it's a 2 for 1 for 3 mana with your extra card being a 2/1 bear, less than impressive IMO.

[alderon666]

While being able to chose from BS, MM or StP to Flashback from sounds neat, I think you probably need a good way to use the 2/1 body. Be it either by equipament or exalted triggers.

Vial and Noble Hierarch kinda of take care of the "BS/StP costing 3 mana problem". The existence of MM also helps with that

The problem I see with this guy in a control deck is that it barely trades with anything else. You basically just flashback a StP and gained a chump block.

[rnightingale]

Chen looks silly in that picture...

Looks like Mr. Chow to me..
http://quietasianguy.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/hangover-mr-chow.jpg

[Jonika]

Flashblack mental misstep? Yesssur. Something is about to get banned

[TkDodo]

The problem I see with this guy in a control deck is that it barely trades with anything else. You basically just flashback a StP and gained a chump block.

You say this as if it was a bad thing to do.
1u + w/u
Instant
Choose one - exile target creature, or brainstorm; You gain ~5 life.

And in some cases, you can counter a spell with him. Plus the few times where he actually does trade with a creature (like every goblin, ever, or a merfolk after you used the sword/bolt to kill a lord), he can become "destroy two target creatures". There will even be times where you just play him, stick a sword on him and ride him to victory. Granted, by far not as often as Clique can, but all these small pieces of value add up to a very strong, verstile card for control decks.

[Darkenslight]

Do we have any rulings on Flashback and Phymana cards?

[catmint]

1u + w/u
Instant
Choose one - exile target creature, or brainstorm; You gain ~5 life.


That sounds very strong. The chance that he becomes "destroy 2 target creates" for 3 mana versus tribal is a big factor (thanks to his 2 power).

It will suck playing against a deck with mage, because you always have to keep an eye on the GY if they have 3 mana open because MM and spell snare are also prime candidates. It will definitely be harder to play against UW control.

However all this "broken" 2 for ones are conditional. In the erly game the card reads "wait for me to do something, pitch me to FoW or shuffle me away". This is why I think it should be a 2 of Stoneblade lists, but is not good in aggro control decks.

The argument that he can carry a sword to victory is only relevant if he increases the creature count in the deck. If he replaces a 3/1 flyer it would be wrong to argue this way.

[TkDodo]

Do we have any rulings on Flashback and Phymana cards?

Yes, we do. Mental Misstep for instance gets Flashback: PU, which means you can either cast it paying U or paying 2 life.




However all this "broken" 2 for ones are conditional. In the erly game the card reads "wait for me to do something, pitch me to FoW or shuffle me away". This is why I think it should be a 2 of Stoneblade lists, but is not good in aggro control decks.


He becomes "active" on turn 3, just like Clique. You can't see it as a 2-drop (like bob), because then you can't use his ability effectively. Also, if you want to brainstorm again, he becomes much better the later you play him (just like brainstorm itself), so waiting until turn 4 until you have another fetchland open is probably superior anyway. If that means you don't wan to see him on your starting hand a lot, a 2-of is probably right.
Of course, the deck has to be somewhat build around it. 6+ counters that you actually can flashback (looking at you, FoW), 5-6 instant removal spells, 4+ filtering spells and so on.

But I can't see him being conditional in the sense of "Oh, now I got the Mage, but I can't cast anything with him, what a wasted topdeck". This will only occur on turn 2 (where you don't want to cast him although you theoretically could [except for Misstep]).

In my limited testing it was more like "Oh, now I got the Mage, but I don't WANT to cast him, because I have Counterspell, Brainstorm AND Swords in my yard and I can't decide what to do ;)"

[catmint]

"he is active at turn3" is not completely correct. Only if you played a spell in the first 2 turns that also helps you again in turn 3, so mage cannot be compared to clique in the way that it is a certain turn 3 play.

In topdeck mode the card is surely great, because the graveyard will be filled up.

What is conditional is the "broken 2 for ones" such as destroy two creatures or trading with a creature + countering a spell. That you get some value out of it (in the form of the best card in the format or a counterspell) is also conditional by nature but much more likely. IMO having access to more brainstorms does not make the format healthier

[TkDodo]

"he is active at turn3" is not completely correct. Only if you played a spell in the first 2 turns that also helps you again in turn 3, so mage cannot be compared to clique in the way that it is a certain turn 3 play.


Right, like if you misstep a turn 1 play and don't need a misstep on turn 3, you can't (or won't) play the mage, whereas you can always play a Clique, even if the opponent doesn't have a hand.
We have to try how often this is going to happen though. Like i said, the longer you wait with the mage, the better it gets. That doesn't neccessarily mean you don't want it on the starting hand though. At least one of the two arguments that always seem to come up ("It's blue, so it pitches to FoW" and "You can still shuffle it away with Brainstorm") doesn't apply here, since if you have Brainstorm, you do not want to shuffle the Mage away ;)



IMO having access to more brainstorms does not make the format healthier


That's the best aspect of the card (If you are a blue mage ;)

[Bahamuth]

IMO having access to more brainstorms does not make the format healthier

As far as I'm concerned, more Brainstorms is better for the format, as long as it doesn't degenerate into some lineair combo being the best deck. Paying 3 mana for a 2/1 body and a Brainstorm is far from degenerate. This card may see play, but right now I think most deck will be better without it.

90% of the Legacy playerbase is still playing end of turn Brainstorms without fetch anyway, so more Brainstorms is unlikely to be a big deal.


The card is not playable in Solidarity, where it's a more expensive Twincast. The card isn't playable in any deck that doesn't want him as a creature, but StP and Brainstorm alone make him playable in a deck that does. He seems way better than Clique in Batterstill, for instance.

It's not strictly a more expensive Twincast. Casting something and Twincasting it opens you up to being 2-for-1-ed, which basically guarantees you lose. The body is also not completely irrelevant, as you may be able to chump lethal damage, so that you don't have to Turnabout their guys/Stroke them. The card is also much better to draw into with Meditate. You're not required to have the card you want to Twincast in hand.
The major problem is that it doesn't solve Mental Misttep per se. You can't really hope to win if your combo starts with Mage -> Tide without a sick hand with probably multiple Resets.

[ivanpei]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it will replace xx sprites or the 3rd clique in stoneforge decks and that's about it. It's the ideal deck to play snapcaster in. 3 sprites, 2 cliques, 2 snapcaster and 4 sfm looks like a nice creature base. You can play it like a draw go deck where you can represent either clique, snapcaster or sprite with untapped lands (preferably 2 blue ones and a mutavault). I wouldn't call it broken, but it's a solid good card.

[MtgPhreakin]

Can you flashback force of will and remove something from your hand? And can you really play ancestral visions for 0?

[soiber2000]

Can you flashback force of will and remove something from your hand? And can you really play ancestral visions for 0?

No and no...

Force of will flashback cost is 3UU, that's all.

Ancestral vision has an "illegal" flashback cost, so you can't pay for it.

[alderon666]

As far as I'm concerned, more Brainstorms is better for the format, as long as it doesn't degenerate into some lineair combo being the best deck. Paying 3 mana for a 2/1 body and a Brainstorm is far from degenerate. This card may see play, but right now I think most deck will be better without it.

90% of the Legacy playerbase is still playing end of turn Brainstorms without fetch anyway, so more Brainstorms is unlikely to be a big deal.


So, Blue control can dominate the format but combo shouldn't be a pillar of Legacy? IMO this guy is just gonna make Stoneforge decks better and non-blue decks even more unplayable.

[GGoober]

This guy should most possibly find a home in Tide.decks, but not necessarily. I think in Spiral Tide, it's questionably good because it's good pre-Spiral but leads to less-consistent post-spiral hands since you shuffle your GY back in. For Solidarity, Snapcaster mage is great because anytime a Solidarity player is comboing, they require a minimum of High Tide, Draw, Untapper, to which drawing into a Snapcaster Mage continues to fuel the combo without any further issues. Snapping that Reset back is pretty amazing, or that Meditate.

In non tide-decks, I think he is ONLY good in a SFM-build, due to its terrible 2-1 body that does nothing. The list Frenchy-man posted is really solid (I would run 4 SFM in that list). Snapcaster with SFM makes it worthwhile since carrying a Batterskull/Sword would make it a worthwhile body while at the same time generating card-advantage. Other than that, I don't really find him worthwhile in any deck without cutting key cards. He could possibly work well in a vial@2 wizard-fish (SFM, Snapcaster, Bob, Spellstutter Sprite, Cliques, Sower) decks with 2-3 Riptide Laboratories MD, the deck could be good (working on it), but then you start asking why not just play Merfolk or UW SFM/Faeries.

[frenchy-man]

In non tide-decks, I think he is ONLY good in a SFM-build, due to its terrible 2-1 body that does nothing. The list Frenchy-man posted is really solid (I would run 4 SFM in that list). Snapcaster with SFM makes it worthwhile since carrying a Batterskull/Sword would make it a worthwhile body while at the same time generating card-advantage. Other than that, I don't really find him worthwhile in any deck without cutting key cards. He could possibly work well in a vial@2 wizard-fish (SFM, Snapcaster, Bob, Spellstutter Sprite, Cliques, Sower) decks with 2-3 Riptide Laboratories MD, the deck could be good (working on it), but then you start asking why not just play Merfolk or UW SFM/Faeries.

Yeah the list I posted is really solid and I believe that it is an improvement to both bant and stoneblade decks.
About the fourth SFM I removed one because one only have 2 equipments and therefore it is frequent to have 0 equipment left in this, as you just draw/fetched them already. I added a vendilion in this slot.
There's a debate between mutavault and wasteland, and I believe that waste i much more efficient in the deck. But I am not totally convinced.

[Basaka]

I'm thinking of building a weird UR or U/R/b Pyromancer Ascension deck with the mage, because flashbacking spells with an active ascension is sick.

Something like

4 PA
2-4 mages
4 Burning wish
1 EtW
1 Grapeshot

4 FoW
4 Remand/MM?

4 brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 impulse

4 rite
4 manamorphose
4 some red ritual

lands

and have a wish package SB with kill spells, like EtW Grapeshot, tendrils.

Basically it plays like TES/ANT, but with more counterspells and the ability to dodge MM better. Not sure how well it will actually work, but seems hilarious.

[lordofthepit]

I'm thinking of building a weird UR or U/R/b Pyromancer Ascension deck with the mage, because flashbacking spells with an active ascension is sick.

Something like

4 PA
2-4 mages
4 Burning wish
1 EtW
1 Grapeshot

4 FoW
4 Remand/MM?

4 brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 impulse

4 rite
4 manamorphose
4 some red ritual

lands

and have a wish package SB with kill spells, like EtW Grapeshot, tendrils.

Basically it plays like TES/ANT, but with more counterspells and the ability to dodge MM better. Not sure how well it will actually work, but seems hilarious.

Quick ruling question (which I'm putting in this thread since it pertains to this deck): if you have a one-of instant or sorcery in your graveyard (e.g. Ponder) and an active Ascension with two counters, does the Ascension "see" the copy in the graveyard when you're trying to flash it back?

[lorddotm]

Quick ruling question (which I'm putting in this thread since it pertains to this deck): if you have a one-of instant or sorcery in your graveyard (e.g. Ponder) and an active Ascension with two counters, does the Ascension "see" the copy in the graveyard when you're trying to flash it back?

Unfortunately no. Otherwise Flashback and Pyromancer would be played and it wouldn't be very fair.

[Bahamuth]

So, Blue control can dominate the format but combo shouldn't be a pillar of Legacy? IMO this guy is just gonna make Stoneforge decks better and non-blue decks even more unplayable.

Blue control doesn't dominate the format, and it never will. The format is way too random and wide open for control to be the best strategy. Right now, the Mystic decks are good, but they far from dominate the meta.

I never said combo shouldn't be a pillar of Legacy. I said the meta shouldn't degenerate in a lineair combo deck, which is clearly the best deck. This is what was the case for years before Mystical got banned, but it took people ages to figure it out.

[Basaka]

Flashback says: you may cast this card from the graveyard

Ascension says whenever you cast an instant or sorcery... have 2 counters...

basically, once ascension is active, it doesn't matter how many copies of a card is in the graveyard. As long as you cast it, you can copy it.

[Guy I Don't Know]

Just thought of these shenanigans:
Hand:4 Island, Snapcaster Mage, High Tide, Intuition
Turn 1: Island
Turn 2: Island
Turn 3: Island Intuition for 3 snap
Turn 4: Island, High Tide, play Snapcaster Mage flashback High Tide, Snap Snapcaster Mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Intuition to get 3 Cunning Wish, Cunning Wish for Snap, Snap Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Snap targeting Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster mage flashbacking Cunning Wish for Snap, Snap Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Snap targeting Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage for Cunning Wish for Brainfreeze, Brainfreeze decking opponent (24 Storm 8 Mana left).

Number of Snaps played in one turn: 8
Number of times saying snap: 27
-OH SNAP!

If people don't kill people, guns kill people then does that mean that Snappers don't Snap Snapcaster Mage, Snap Snaps Snapcaster Mage?

[Tammit67]

Just thought of these shenanigans:
Hand:4 Island, Snapcaster Mage, High Tide, Intuition
Turn 1: Island
Turn 2: Island
Turn 3: Island Intuition for 3 snap
Turn 4: Island, High Tide, play Snapcaster Mage flashback High Tide, Snap Snapcaster Mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage, flashback Snap targeting Snapcaster mage, play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Intuition to get 3 Cunning Wish, Cunning Wish for Snap, Snap Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Snap targeting Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster mage flashbacking Cunning Wish for Snap, Snap Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage flashbacking Snap targeting Snapcaster Mage, Play Snapcaster Mage for Cunning Wish for Brainfreeze, Brainfreeze decking opponent (24 Storm 8 Mana left).

Number of Snaps played in one turn: 8
Number of times saying snap: 27
-OH SNAP!

If people don't kill people, guns kill people then does that mean that Snappers don't Snap Snapcaster Mage, Snap Snaps Snapcaster Mage?

That is too many snaps in your deck/sideboard, bro. You know they updated the rules, right?

[Guy I Don't Know]

That is too many snaps in your deck/sideboard, bro. You know they updated the rules, right?

There is three found with intuition and then you cunning wish for two once they are removed from the game because of flashback.

[Shawon]

There is three found with intuition and then you cunning wish for two once they are removed from the game because of flashback.

M10 rules state "cards outside the game" do NOT include exiled cards. So you can't use Cunning Wish to grab Snaps flashbacked by Snapcaster Mage.

[Guy I Don't Know]

M10 rules state "cards outside the game" do NOT include exiled cards. So you can't use Cunning Wish to grab Snaps flashbacked by Snapcaster Mage.

Too bad I haven't played in a tourney since these dumb rules came about :/ I guess you can brainfreeze for 45ish cards instead and only get to play 4 snaps TT

[lordofthepit]

Flashback says: you may cast this card from the graveyard

Ascension says whenever you cast an instant or sorcery... have 2 counters...

basically, once ascension is active, it doesn't matter how many copies of a card is in the graveyard. As long as you cast it, you can copy it.

Thanks. Didn't even notice it.

[Octopusman]

Riptide Laboratory is starting to go out of stock.

I don't think that it's unrealistic to swing the game in your favor in the late game if you can get a use or two out of the land. When you need a swords to plowshares, this card is more like a demonic tutor than a jayemdae tome.
It's funny to hear people downplay the ability to get swords to plowshares again. That play is huge.

There is so much more to do with this guy than just brainstorm which is also amazing in its own right.
Right now, I'm looking at enlightened tutor.

[frenchy-man]

Riptide Laboratory is starting to go out of stock.


That was obvious it would arrive...

[dontbiteitholmes]

I don't think this card is the "2nd coming" like most people claim. It's pretty good and it's blue but the comparisons with clique are off center. This card is totally different. Clique is an evasive threat with built in disruption. You want him against combo and control, while being mediocre against aggro.

Snapcaster is also mediocre against aggro since the body is irrelevant, so-so against combo because you need to have another spell in the yard already for it to be relevant. Pretty good against control and midrange but not absolutely backbreaking. I don't think it's as impressive as people make it out to be.

I think a 2/1 body is nowhere near as impressive as a 3/1 flyer. The evasion makes exalted clique a game winning creature. Snapcaster suffers from eternal witness/trinket Mage syndrome. It is excellent in long games but early on, it is just ok and pretty narrow. A 2/1 body is very average.

In legacy you want stuff that does something NOW. Clique is just that. You strip your opponents best card immediately and you get a 3/1 flyer. That's pretty insane. Snapcaster make you wait a bit to milk max value. Also it's a 2 for 1 for 3 mana with your extra card being a 2/1 bear, less than impressive IMO.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about this card in Legacy, however in Vintage this guy could possibly be house and in Standard he's obviously really good.

[CorpT]

This is pretty much exactly how I feel about this card in Legacy, however in Vintage this guy could possibly be house and in Standard he's obviously really good.

Snapcaster's worth is directly related to the Instants and Sorceries available with Instants being much more valuable. Snapping back a Shock in Standard is nowhere as impressive as snapping back a Swords or Brainstorm in Legacy. Snapping back a Ponder or Day of Judgment... not that impressive. I'm sure he will see some play in Standard, but I doubt that he will be really good.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Snapcaster's worth is directly related to the Instants and Sorceries available with Instants being much more valuable. Snapping back a Shock in Standard is nowhere as impressive as snapping back a Swords or Brainstorm in Legacy. Snapping back a Ponder or Day of Judgment... not that impressive. I'm sure he will see some play in Standard, but I doubt that he will be really good.

In Standard he lets you play your Doom Blade or GFTT early vs. Aggro without having to worry about later then later when they swing in with guys you can flash this guy in trade with smaller guy and hit bigger guy with instant removal. Vs. Control he gives a late game Mana Leak + 2/1 for 4 as an instant or a 2/1 Ponder for 3 during your turn. Seems pretty good.
In Legacy a 2/1 is far from impressive, so there is plenty of times he's just a brainstorm and a chump for 3 and in Legacy you can have Vendillion Clique for 3.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

The 2/1 pt is irrelevant, what matters is that he has a body!
Its just way more abusable with stuff like vial, snap, equipment, lab...

[rufus]

Just thought of these shenanigans:
Hand:4 Island, Snapcaster Mage, High Tide, Intuition
Turn 1: Island
Turn 2: Island
Turn 3: Island Intuition for 3 snap
Turn 4: Island, ...Gifts Ungiven...2x Brain Freeze

Though anyone who lets you go through 4 turns in Legacy unmolested without counters at the ready should expect to loose.

[from Cairo]

Snapcaster's worth is directly related to the Instants and Sorceries available with Instants being much more valuable. Snapping back a Shock in Standard is nowhere as impressive as snapping back a Swords or Brainstorm in Legacy. Snapping back a Ponder or Day of Judgment... not that impressive. I'm sure he will see some play in Standard, but I doubt that he will be really good.

I think he will be pretty good in UB Control in Standard. Flashing back a Swords or Brainstorm is more powerful than a Doomblade or Ponder, but Standard is a slower format. Having a smaller pool of cards I think streamlines decklists and as a result having additional copies of the best spells for slot X is going to be a boost in matches.

Like what dontbiteitholmes was saying, having 4 more Doom Blades versus agro or having 4 more Mana Leaks for control match ups, while gaining a chump or some board pressure - admittedly the body isn't too impressive, but it's never going to hurt.

[Rizso]

Any size of body can equip a Sword of Feast and Famine and go all the way :P

[ScatmanX]

Though anyone who lets you go through 4 turns in Legacy unmolested without counters at the ready should expect to loose.
I wonder if he did anything with the other 4 cards in his hand...

[ivanpei]

Exactly, that's why he is mainly good in stoneblade decks. But those lists are really tight as it is already but I can see max 2 copies in a deck without drawing too many copies early. My stoneblade list splashes red for grims md and Rebs sb so I have no space at all. I won't be playing snapcaster Mage. If I wanted gas, I'd play other cards to be honest.

Let's ask ourselves, what would we cut for snapcaster? He does everything, yes but usually not early enough to matter. If you replace xx clique or sprite with snapcaster, you are very vulnerable early game. Snapcaster is without a doubt a mid-late game card. In my mid-late game slots, I already have 4 jace there. So snapcaster is really hard to slot in.

In standard where snapcaster ups xx spell density, he's quite good actually. He carries a sword which is game winning in standard. In legacy, lack of bodies is rarely a problem as there are so many good creatures (especially evasive like sprite/clique) to choose from.

[TkDodo]

Exactly, that's why he is mainly good in stoneblade decks. But those lists are really tight as it is already but I can see max 2 copies in a deck without drawing too many copies early. My stoneblade list splashes red for grims md and Rebs sb so I have no space at all. I won't be playing snapcaster Mage. If I wanted gas, I'd play other cards to be honest.

Let's ask ourselves, what would we cut for snapcaster? He does everything, yes but usually not early enough to matter. If you replace xx clique or sprite with snapcaster, you are very vulnerable early game. Snapcaster is without a doubt a mid-late game card. In my mid-late game slots, I already have 4 jace there. So snapcaster is really hard to slot in.


I am playing StoneBlade with a red splash as well (for Lavamancer, RedBlast and Firespout in the side). After Snapcaster Mage, I decided to cut Lavamancer for Lightning Bolts. Seriously, Bolt -> Mage -> Bolt is as good, if not better, than having a Lavamancer online most of the time. I did find room (although I don't play 4 Jace). I cut Ancestral Vision which I never really liked in the Patriot shell. You can a sample list and some thoughts in the Patriot Thread.

It's not that much of a Midgame card - I played the Mage on turn 2 a lot, flashbacking a Mental Misstep (most of the time, playing the same misstep twice a turn ;). It also becomes so much better post board, Surgical Extraction for example is so much better if you can flashback it, too. Once you add RedBlasts to the mix, it becomes insane.
A fun thing to notice is that until now, the only card I never flashbacked is Brainstorm (which surprises me a lot). Every time I either had a counter or swords or bolt in the yard, and killing something on board or countering a thread seemed like a much better option than brainstorming to find an answer for said thread.

[Octopusman]

I am playing StoneBlade with a red splash as well (for Lavamancer, RedBlast and Firespout in the side). After Snapcaster Mage, I decided to cut Lavamancer for Lightning Bolts. Seriously, Bolt -> Mage -> Bolt is as good, if not better, than having a Lavamancer online most of the time. I did find room (although I don't play 4 Jace). I cut Ancestral Vision which I never really liked in the Patriot shell. You can a sample list and some thoughts in the Patriot Thread.

It's not that much of a Midgame card - I played the Mage on turn 2 a lot, flashbacking a Mental Misstep (most of the time, playing the same misstep twice a turn ;). It also becomes so much better post board, Surgical Extraction for example is so much better if you can flashback it, too. Once you add RedBlasts to the mix, it becomes insane.
A fun thing to notice is that until now, the only card I never flashbacked is Brainstorm (which surprises me a lot). Every time I either had a counter or swords or bolt in the yard, and killing something on board or countering a thread seemed like a much better option than brainstorming to find an answer for said thread.

Thank you for this testing. I have been thinking about using 2 in a patriot deck. Thanks a lot.
Can't wait. Personally, I'm going to try to crush dreams with tons of stifles on wastelands, fetches, stoneforge mystic, qasali pride mage, pact triggers, etc.
Fun times. Oh so fun.

[Hobtuse]

Exactly, that's why he is mainly good in stoneblade decks. But those lists are really tight as it is already but I can see max 2 copies in a deck without drawing too many copies early. My stoneblade list splashes red for grims md and Rebs sb so I have no space at all. I won't be playing snapcaster Mage. If I wanted gas, I'd play other cards to be honest.

Let's ask ourselves, what would we cut for snapcaster? He does everything, yes but usually not early enough to matter. If you replace xx clique or sprite with snapcaster, you are very vulnerable early game. Snapcaster is without a doubt a mid-late game card. In my mid-late game slots, I already have 4 jace there. So snapcaster is really hard to slot in.

In standard where snapcaster ups xx spell density, he's quite good actually. He carries a sword which is game winning in standard. In legacy, lack of bodies is rarely a problem as there are so many good creatures (especially evasive like sprite/clique) to choose from.

I don't think you are giving Snapcaster Mage enough credit. He is basically (Recur instant/sorcery) + throw in 1U for a 2/1 body.

The list of instants/sorceries that the Mage can flashback in Legacy is staggering. Shoe-horning him into just Stoneblade decks seems quite unfair.

[Gui]

I'd like to take the discussion into another route: Snapcaster Mage is great, but will it be that great if Mental Misstep ends up getting banned?

The big 3 usages of Snapcaster in legacy seems to be Brainstorm, Swords to Plowshares and Mental Misstep, the cheaper usages with bigger impact, since you will be basically casting these spells with additional :1::u: cost. Without the 0cc bomb, looks like Snapcaster whould be a little less awesome.

[ivanpei]

He Should see play in blue based decks with sfm because equips+missteps+cantrips justify playing him. So decks like uwx stoneblade, bant will love him. Other decks, not so much. For example, NO RUG won't play him. Snappy is without a doubt a great card, I just think all the hype is unwarranted. People have to realize he is not a 4-off. He will be a 2/3 off in a few legacy decks. This is not goyf/sfm/bob. I think the prerelease price is bonkers as well. I'm pretty sure it'll drop after release and tons of drafting. This will be a hugely cracked set.

[TkDodo]

I'd like to take the discussion into another route: Snapcaster Mage is great, but will it be that great if Mental Misstep ends up getting banned?


I wish I would've taken notes from the beginning, but I'm pretty sure Mental Misstep is the spell I flashback most (at least in the early game). T1 Misstep T2 Snapback Misstep is such a huge tempo play. However, the longer the game goes, the more Swords I played. Brainstorm was only Snapbacked once ... I still have to figure out what that's all about.

As of the original question: The Mage becomes a lot worse without Mental Misstep to use. However, wouldn't we all be switching back to Counterbalance if it wasn't for misstep slowing the format down, providing an answer to SD.Top and ruining the CB-curve?

[Comrade]

T1 Misstep T2 Snapback Misstep is such a huge tempo play.

It's like you time walked them, and then time walked them. Which is a lot of time walks.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

T1 Ponder + Misstep T2 Snapback Misstep is such a huge tempo play, CA and card-quality!

I can see a deck here. 12 cantrips 12 counters, A mix of SCM, SFM, Clique, Spellstutter sprite 3 equipment's 4 Stp and ~22 lands.

So much design space from here now. You can tweak it controlish with real counterspells, crucible man/waste lands, Shackles.
Aggressive, with Geist of Saint Traft, maybe Gitaxian probe. (SCM likes free spells)
Faerie style, Mutavault, max out Clique and Sprite + 2/3 Sower.
Your still only UW, want to spash something? Why not, endless possibilities...

[StoicAngel]

As the cc on him is 2. I think hes best played in some sort of aether vial set up.

[TkDodo]

As the cc on him is 2. I think hes best played in some sort of aether vial set up.

Right now I can't think of a list that plays enough Instants to support him and AEther Vial. But maybe such a deck has to be invented first. If you have an idea, enlighten us ;)

[Star|Scream]

Right now I can't think of a list that plays enough Instants to support him and AEther Vial. But maybe such a deck has to be invented first. If you have an idea, enlighten us ;)

u/w Tempo easily. 11 counters, 4 brainstorm , 4 stp = 1/3 of the deck are instants. Yes, 4 of them cost 5cc (FOW), but I think SCM will do wonders for Spell pierce as well. Maybe drop FOW altogether?

[Dark Ritual]

Aether vial would be a pretty handy set up with this guy since then you could really abuse him with riptide laboratory to the max. Along with vendilion clique providing a softlock with riptide laboratory + vial at 3. Same with SSS obviously. I think the best aggro control type deck he'll work in is UW wizards. Because spellstutter, this guy, and vendilion clique are all houses with riptide lab and vial on the table.

[StoicAngel]

4 hermit druid
4 spellstutter sprite
4 snapcaster mage
3 laboratory maniac
3 stoneforge mystic

4 aether vial
1 batterskull
1 sword of feast and famine

4 brainstorm
4 spell pierce
3 remand
3 swords to plowshares
1 pact of negation

4 misty rainforest
3 windswept heath
4 tropical island
1 savannah
1 tundra
1 riptide laboratory
1 academy ruins
1 tolaria west
2 dryad arbor
3 hinterland harbor

Any thoughts?

[maurobad2k4]

4 hermit druid


You know this card is banned, right ?

[StoicAngel]

You know this card is banned, right ?

i do now. thought it legal in legacy and banned in vintage. my bad

Capitalization is required. Use it. Thanks. -zilla

[2Rach]

I wish I would've taken notes from the beginning, but I'm pretty sure Mental Misstep is the spell I flashback most (at least in the early game). T1 Misstep T2 Snapback Misstep is such a huge tempo play. However, the longer the game goes, the more Swords I played. Brainstorm was only Snapbacked once ... I still have to figure out what that's all about.
Well, of course. Snapcaster Mage is a toolbox of sorts, it gets you what you want but from your graveyard. You have Swords for removal and Misstep as a counter. You get the same amount of card advantage as you'd get with Brainstorm. It's natural to want to wait to flashback something more directly impacting than a Brainstorm, and that inclination just being in your mind would furthur push the statistics away from Brainstorm. But if you do flashback Brainstorm, it's because you're looking for something other than creature removal or counter. Most likely a finisher, land or an equipment. That, or you haven't drawn Misstep or StoP yet. ;)

[Tacosnape]

In early testing, this guy makes U/R Sligh a deck.

[Humphrey]

i was looking into it myself, but im not convinced the mage deals more damage in shorter time than the other options.

usually i run
4 grim
4 marauder
4 guide
4 hellspark elemental
+burn

adding blue gives you snapcaster and the new flying guy. both are slower than the redstuff. maybe you can cut grim, but flashbacking a bolt cost 3 mana. for 3 you can get better burn, the body is irrelevant since it has no haste and no evasion. Opening yourself to Wastelands and Price of Progessing yourself isnt the best move either.

Capitalization is required. Use it. Thanks. -zilla

[Julian23]

Did I miss something? Right now Snapcaster Mages is sold out on magickartenmarkt.de @ 25€. I think it used to be like 16€ for quite some time? What happened today? Any new pro article coming out claiming how Snapcaster Mage will destroy each and everyone?

[Gheizen64]

In early testing, this guy makes U/R Sligh a deck.

U/R sligh is a deck already thanks for the Delver of Secret, the 3/2 flyer for U with the severe drawback of having to run good cards in your deck.

[ivanpei]

So how good is this guy without mental misstep? Its still pretty damn solid but now that stoneblade has been bumped down in powerlevel a notch, snapcaster is looking less attractive. Would you run countertop in stoneblade or some medley of spell snares/counterspells and snapcasters?

[DragoFireheart]

So how good is this guy without mental misstep? Its still pretty damn solid but now that stoneblade has been bumped down in powerlevel a notch, snapcaster is looking less attractive. Would you run countertop in stoneblade or some medley of spell snares/counterspells and snapcasters?

Snapcaster fits PERFECTLY into CTs curve.

[ivanpei]

Very true, so countertop/stoneblade is the next big thing? I'll start brewing.

[Octopusman]

Now that I have 4 more slots in my deck I'm definitely putting Snapcaster in as a 2 of and finally re-adding the 2 spell pierce that I have been missing greatly.

[DragoFireheart]

Very true, so countertop/stoneblade is the next big thing? I'll start brewing.

Yup. Time to go get me some stoneblades + batterskulls.

[Humphrey]

I dont think that SFM is better in CBT than Goyf.

Well we have to see how the metagame turns out, I expect a lot of combo, so Flashbacking Pierces seems strong.

[Bardo]

So how good is this guy without mental misstep?

Still crazy, crazy nuts. This card is amazing. Too bad the dude costs what he does.

Edit - $$-wise, that is.

[ivanpei]

There's going to be 2 snapcaster builds IMO. I agree goyf+countertop is better than sfm + countertop. Snapcaster is still nuts in both sfm decks and tarmo decks. I'd play this sfm build:

4 Sfm
3 Snappy
3 Clique

1 Soff
1 Batterskull

4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Force
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell/ Spell pierce
4 Jace TMS

4 Stp
2 Path

4 Mishra's factory
19 colored lands

OR

4 Goyf
2 Snapcaster
2 Clique

4 Force
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterbalance
4 Top
3 Jace TMS
2 Cspell
3 Snare

4 Stp
2 Path

22 lands

Snapcaster is still a fantastic utility creature.

[2Rach]

Another advantage Mystic has over Tarmogoyf is keeping a solid manabase or going into a more relevant color than green. (Green really just being good for Goyf and flashback Grudge) Oh, actually, better game against Merfolk.

[Humphrey]

But SFM is very mana intensive, so is CBT. I dont think it syergizes very well.

[Malakai]

On one hand, in existing blue decks you can really only buy back Swords to Plowshares or Brainstorm. On the other hand, you can buy back Swords to Plowshares or Brainstorm.

[ivanpei]

Don't forget Spell Pierce/Spell Snare/Counterspell and Path to Exile. It can do pretty much everything. Like Humphrey said, it is mana intensive, so too many copies may not be the best idea.

[RJM]

Don't forget Spell Pierce/Spell Snare/Counterspell and Path to Exile. It can do pretty much everything. Like Humphrey said, it is mana intensive, so too many copies may not be the best idea.

I'm looking forward to finding the best home for Snapcaster + Stifle, personally.

[Onslaught]

With Misstep gone, I think the 4 Sinkhole/Wasteland/Stifle package is really attractive again. Snapcaster gives you redundancy in the early game and inevitability in the late game (especially if you have protected a Riptide Lab with Stifle). Spellstutter and Clique play nice with Riptide and give you a creature package that is entirely Flash. Something like:

4 Snapcaster
4 Spellstutter
2 Clique

4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Diabolic Edict

4 FOW
4 Stifle
4 Daze

4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn

4 Wasteland
2 Riptide Lab
7 Fetches
4 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island

You have extremely strong resource denial in the early game, a midgame of reactive denial, and late game inevitability with Labs. The removal package is just a placeholder, there should be Dismembers in some amount (and consideration given to Go for the Throat, Smother, a Snuff Out, etc).

I would put Teferi's Response in the sideboard too, since you can overwhelm other control decks by protecting a Lab.

[ivanpei]

That list folds to T1 Aether Vial, may want to retool the deck with some outs to it. You need either Grims or a SFM package to deal with Vial Tribal. IMO that's the challenge most control lists will face right now. I like the Mana denial idea, I've been itching to use my Sinkholes forever but a heavy blue build may not be the best Idea. Maybe a deadguy shell, splash Blue for Snapcaster?

[Gui]

If that's the deal, control decks could start thinking about packing Nature's Claim then.... xD

[umbowta]

I just wanna start calling this card "Snapper" for short. I mean, the ensuing deck name hilarity alone is worth it.

Mono blue: Wet Snapper
Burn w/u splash: Hot Snapper

I'm so immature sometimes.

[Gui]

I just wanna start calling this card "Snapper" for short. I mean, the ensuing deck name hilarity alone is worth it.

Mono blue: Wet Snapper
Burn w/u splash: Hot Snapper

I'm so immature sometimes.

This reminds me of when you wanted to name :w: splashed Berserk "ZooGasm"

[(nameless one)]

Why is everyone calling this card Snapper!?!??!?

Do we call Dark Confidant Confy? No, his name is Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Maher,_Jr.).

I say stick with Tiago. The card's name is Tiago.

[Gui]

Why is everyone calling this card Snapper!?!??!?

Do we call Dark Confidant Confy? No, his name is Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Maher,_Jr.).

I say stick with Tiago. The card's name is Tiago.

No way, it's Chan

[Octopusman]

I'm looking forward to finding the best home for Snapcaster + Stifle, personally.

Me too.

Now how do I make room for vials now too? Snapcaster is way better when he's "free".

[dahcmai]

You know I think I'm actually going to modify Patriot and keep the recent Bolts I added and just switch over to Spell Snares/Counterspell again. They were in the deck before Missteps anyway. Snapcaster goes well with both. Vial is a pain, but I can just up the amount of Disenchants in the board again. There's not much coming off a Vial that I can't Bolt, Swords, or just outrace with a Batterskull. It's fast, but not unbeatable without a way to remove it.

[umbowta]

Why is everyone calling this card Snapper!?!??!?
Uhhh...Snapper is a slang term for our favorite female reproductive organ. Our favorite female reproductive organ is awesome. Snapcaster Mage is awesome. => Snapper!


This reminds me of when you wanted to name :w: splashed Berserk "ZooGasm"

LOL! I forgot about that. There's something seriously wrong with me.

[lordofthepit]

After contemplating this card some more, I don't think it will have a huge impact on the game. It's a good card in the same way that Lorescale Coatl is good (and admittedly, I thought Coatl was going to take over the format). It looks like it will have a huge impact on the game with limited setup, but it's actually deceptively constraining in terms of the deck requirements you need.

Without Mental Misstep in the format, for all intents and purposes, this card costs at least three mana to use to decent effect (barring Aether Vial shenanigans, which seem unlikely). It requires that you run a decent number of cheap instants and sorceries--and the likes of Force of Will, Daze, and Ancestral Vision do not count for this purpose. Brainstorm (and possibly Ponder/Preordain) are nice starts, as are Swords to Plowshares or Lightning Bolt.

But here's the problem. Unless you run something like 12-16 "cheap instants/sorceries" to support SCM (much as you need 18-20 blue cards to support FoW), you won't consistently get useful spells to flashback in the early-to-mid game. Brainstorm doesn't really count either, since it's a card you want to hold onto for value and not burn in the early game. Where SCM can be useful is in the late game, where you have a choice of useful instants and sorceries at your disposal, and you can "tutor" for the appropriate one (i.e. get the Swords of Plowshares to save your ass from Knight of the Reliquary, or a Brainstorm to protect against Duress). But by the late game, the 2/1 body is pretty lame. Your hidden opportunity cost was that you had to hold onto Snapcaster Mage throughout the game so that you could flashback an instant or sorcery in your graveyard for an extra 1U.

An aggressive deck like Merfolk doesn't want Snapcaster Mage because it simply doesn't have instants or sorceries it wants to flashback for the full mana cost. Bant might want to reuse a Brainstorm or a Swords to Plowshares, but it would rather just play a more aggressive creature.

An aggro-control deck like Team America might have loved SCM to reuse Missteps, as well as for peripheral uses of rebuying Stifles, Thoughtseizes, cantrips, etc. But without Misstep, SCM becomes a mid-to-late game card, which isn't where the archetype wants to be.

A control deck like Counterbalance or Landstill can make it to the late game where SCM's triggered ability can be used to full effect. But those decks really have minimal use for the 2/1 body, and they would really rather just drop a Jace, the Mindsculptor or Humility and win the game rather than grinding out small incremental advantages.

A combo deck like High Tide with 12 cantrips, free protection spells like Pact of Negation, and a bevy of other important spells like its namesake High Tide would probably benefit the most from being able to flashback spells. But it doesn't need a 2/1 body, so SCM really only serves to reuse spells that you've already cast before. I don't really think the deck would run 4 more crappier Merchant Scrolls (for the purposes of that deck) if it could do so, especially given the poor synergy with Time Spiral.

Finally, Stoneblade seemed to me like the perfect deck to use the card in. It had quite a few powerful instants and sorceries, often goes to the late game, and it could make use of an aggressively costed 2/1 creature. But once again, without Mental Misstep, the deck really only has Brainstorm and Swords to Plowshares (and possibly Spell Snare) as targets, as Force of Will, Daze, and Ancestral Visions are pretty lame with SCM. Once again, being able to reuse a Swords at the right time is awesome, but on the flip side, you'll often be paying the opportunity cost of holding onto SCM "for value" with no profitable targets in your graveyard while you're getting beat down by a horde of angry fish.

Snapcaster Mage will certainly see Legacy play, but it feels to me like a powerful card without a real "home" that can maximize its brokeness (as would be the case in Vintage). I don't see it really putting any existing archetypes over the top, and I don't see it being strong enough to spawn new decks built specifically around SCM.

Edit: Might be pretty cool in UW Tempo. That deck thins itself aggressively, plays out Brainstorms earlier, would really like extra copies of Swords (but not Path to Exile), can occasionally make use of Vial, and wants to slap Jitte on anything possible.

[Oiolosse]

UW tempo may give it a try but it has too few instants/sorceries, imo. They use several equipment and some dudes with some peoples sideboards as e.tutor wishboards. He won't be properly utilized here.

I do think (no testing, yet) that CounterTop Thopter could use him. Especially lists with stifle. That makes stifle, brainstorm, and StP at the very minimum since the builds can vary greatly.

[Tammit67]

After contemplating this card some more, I don't think it will have a huge impact on the game.

Mail me yours :)

[death]

In control builds, replaying Brainstorm, Swords, Ghastly Demise, Innocent Blood, Thoughtseize or Spell Snare while Jace TMS fateseals is a pretty scary scenario the more I think about it.

[Waikiki]

Isnt an active jace allready a scary scenario ?

[death]

Yeah, but Jace still dies to a top deck burn/permanent removal or a creature with haste if you don't have any answer to them. A creature with flash that chump blocks and also have the ability to flashback countermagic, discard or removal spell is insanely good. SCM is undercosted and this guy is obviously part of the underlying reason why Mental Misstep was banned.

[baghdadbob]

This card is not good for legacy at all. Legacy is already in rough shape. I honestly don't know if I can watch/play another game of U/W/x Stoneforge Jace without going across the table and choking my opponent to death. So froggin' tedious. So now misstep is banned and everyone is going to be running stifle most likely in replacement with infinite respawns from this guy. I predict seeing quite a bit of dropping the /x/ for more consistent mana base and 4x Wasteland. I really don't think the format is going to be a healthy one within the next few months. Hopefully Chapin or LSV says how awesome Phyrexian Obliterator is on a podcast so we can have some god damn diversity. :rolleyes:

[nedleeds]

I'm surprised nobody is running curfew with this guy, with all the reanimator running around. Or Shadowguildmage ... own opposing wizards and reuse your snapcasters.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I'm surprised nobody is running curfew with this guy, with all the reanimator running around. Or Shadowguildmage ... own opposing wizards and reuse your snapcasters.

You're probably the only player who remembers that Curfew exists. Good idea.


BTW, I've been putzing around with monoblue and SCM (+Ruinator, actually), and it's quite insane, especially with Stifle and Wasteland.

[lordofthepit]

Why is everyone calling this card Snapper!?!??!?

Do we call Dark Confidant Confy? No, his name is Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Maher,_Jr.).

I say stick with Tiago. The card's name is Tiago.

The more appropriate question is do you call Dark Confidant "darkie"? Not unless you're in the Deep South.

[Maveric78f]

Why is everyone calling this card Snapper!?!??!?

Do we call Dark Confidant Confy? No, his name is Bob (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Maher,_Jr.).

I say stick with Tiago. The card's name is Tiago.

I call it Snapper because it's a fish creature.

Edit:
More seriously, I test it on Cockatrice with success since it has been spoiled. First I used to play "Confy" instead of Bitterblossom, but I found that the card advantage granted by Confidant was often difficult to take advantage from given how mana extensive the deck is (also it made me play Mother of Runes which are not necessary anymore with Bitterblossom (evasion, recurrent chumpblockers and worthless creatures).

The porn start is Probe+Cabal turn 1 and Snapper on Probe + flashback of Cabal turn 2.

Lands:
3 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand

Peekers:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

Creatures:
4 Bitterblossom
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Tools:
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

1 open slot (can be extirpate, 4th Revoker, 20th land, 3rd top, a MD explosives)

Sideboard:
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Perish
SB: 2 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Meddling Mage

[DragoFireheart]

Eh, I wait and see how good Snappy will perform. As it is now, I'm not that impressed. If he had an evasion ability like flying he'd be amazing, but a 2/1 flash creatures for essentially 3 mana is kind underwhelming. Having a hand with 2 snapcasters and no spells to use for flashback is probably a nightmare scenario people will run across.

[bruizar]

Dragonfireheart is sharing my thoughts. I'll wait and see how the price will plummet and the card will disappoint. Lone exception = storm, where it can apply pressure/chump the way Dark Confidant does in Vintage.

[Octopusman]

I call it Snapper because it's a fish creature.

Edit:
More seriously, I test it on Cockatrice with success since it has been spoiled. First I used to play "Confy" instead of Bitterblossom, but I found that the card advantage granted by Confidant was often difficult to take advantage from given how mana extensive the deck is (also it made me play Mother of Runes which are not necessary anymore with Bitterblossom (evasion, recurrent chumpblockers and worthless creatures).

The porn start is Probe+Cabal turn 1 and Snapper on Probe + flashback of Cabal turn 2.

Lands:
3 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand

Peekers:
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek

Creatures:
4 Bitterblossom
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker

Tools:
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Sensei's Divining Top

Removal:
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate

1 open slot (can be extirpate, 4th Revoker, 20th land, 3rd top, a MD explosives)

Sideboard:
SB: 2 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Perish
SB: 2 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Tower of the Magistrate
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Meddling Mage

Why Inquisition over thoughtseize?

[DragoFireheart]

I'm thinking about Snapcaster in a somewhat different light now. He is a cmc3 spell for most purposes. I think we need to look at a list of commonly played 1 cmc spells:


Brainstorm
Swords to Plowshares
Spell Snare
Spell Pierce
Thoughtseize
Duress
Lightning Bolt
Red Elemental Blast
Pyroblast
Path to Exile
Enlightened Tutor
Entomb
Flusterstorm
Reanimate
Stifle


Here are some other spells that act as either 0 or 1CMC:


Dismember
Gitaxian Probe
Surgical Extraction
Pact of Negation


So for 1UX, you can do any of those effects that are in your graveyard. This is nice and all as it essentially allows you 8 copies of those effects. Again however, I stress that to do ANY of those spells, you essentially make Snappy a CMC 3 spell. STP is essentially a blue costed Unmake. If we now try to fit Snappy into a deck with the intentions of treating him like a CMC 3 spell, we will see that control decks will get the most mileage out of him. The longer the game drags on, the more cards will be in your graveyard, which gives you more choices for Snappy to flashback. I think to best utilize him, we should pretend he is sorta like force of will in that he needs a certain number of instant/sorcery cards to make him not be a dead card. We would need ~ 4 spells for every snappy if we want to maintain the spell balance of cards to be used with snappy similar with cards we want to pitch to force. I feel that having 12 spells with 3 snappys will be the best ratio: 2 is another viable choice. 1 is too few and 4 is too many.

But what about snappy himself? Well, as a 2/1 for 2 is he fairly weak but there is one deck (which lordofthepit pointed out) that can put him to good use: Blade Control.

http://www.factoriademishra.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5977

This list is an example of a blade control deck putting Snapcasters to good use. Even after casting them, you can equip them with a sword found by the SFM and turn him into a dangerous clock. The extra counters you get from Snappys also helps with combo matchups. Finally, the extra removal from Snappys also helps with aggressive decks like Zoo. He provides Blade control the extra card advantage needed in a post-MMS era where Stoneblade is more vulnerable. Other blue control decks can make good use of him merely as a 5-8 copy wild card copy of various spells in their deck. I don't feel they will get the maximum usage out of him like a Stoneblade deck, but they will still find him to be very useful.

Other decks may find uses for him, but at this time I see him getting the most use out of Blue control decks.

I may not wait for the price drop as I believe many will figure out that Snappy is a fairly potent card. It's true that he won't re-shape the meta, but he'll find a home in various blue control decks.

[troopatroop]

Eh, I wait and see how good Snappy will perform. As it is now, I'm not that impressed. If he had an evasion ability like flying he'd be amazing, but a 2/1 flash creatures for essentially 3 mana is kind underwhelming. Having a hand with 2 snapcasters and no spells to use for flashback is probably a nightmare scenario people will run across.

This is why playing 4 is unattractive, except for the lategame decks.


You have to understand, that this isn't a card that gets thrown into decks like a Stoneforge Mystic, but that this doesn't make him any less powerful. He demands that you build around him, and while he costs 3, he's got +1 card advantage and a 2/1 body. Snapcaster can kill 'Goyf for example, with a Flashback Bolt in response to Attacking, Flashback Ice for an extra attack+draw, Flashback Brainstorm to shuffle away lands, etc.

Honestly, my deck plays 13 Creatures, 28 Spells, and 19 Lands, and the 3 Snapcaster are terrific. Blue Zoo did get two new creatures, tho. :D

[HAVE HEART]

The more appropriate question is do you call Dark Confidant "darkie"? Not unless you're in the Deep South.

Easily the best sentence in the history of The Source. Laughed out really loud.

[DragoFireheart]

This is why playing 4 is unattractive, except for the lategame decks.


You have to understand, that this isn't a card that gets thrown into decks like a Stoneforge Mystic, but that this doesn't make him any less powerful. He demands that you build around him, and while he costs 3, he's got +1 card advantage and a 2/1 body. Snapcaster can kill 'Goyf for example, with a Flashback Bolt in response to Attacking, Flashback Ice for an extra attack+draw, Flashback Brainstorm to shuffle away lands, etc.

Honestly, my deck plays 13 Creatures, 28 Spells, and 19 Lands, and the 3 Snapcaster are terrific. Blue Zoo did get two new creatures, tho. :D

- I know. Read my post above. :)

[Maveric78f]

Why Inquisition over thoughtseize?
Because I already have a lot of life loss.
Because 4+CC cards can be handled with Cabal/Revoker/Meddling Mage
Because I play a lot of mana denial.

Snapper is a late game card, but it's incredibly efficient in what it does. In my deck with Cabal Therapy and Gitaxian Probe, it can also be a turn 2 play. That's why I can play 4 of them.

[DragoFireheart]

Looks like he's a good card. Picked up four of him the other day.

[lordofthepit]

Savage bump.

I still think this card is overrated (and I might be the only one), but it's certainly got a home in UW Stoneblade, one of the top decks in the format, where it totally belongs as a 4-of. But I think it's even stronger in Esper Stoneblade decks like the one Tom Martell ran. The addition of Ponder gives addition early game targets, where occasionally, you might awkwardly sit without a Swords to Plowshares or Brainstorm in your graveyard. Proactive disruption in the form of Thoughtseize/Inquisition is awesome with Snapcaster. Intuition is primarily for Lingering Souls, but with a few Snapcasters in hand, it can instantly give you access to a lot of removal by tutoring up three Swords. Vindicate is an extremely powerful target in the late game. And of course, you still have the equipment package that could turn an otherwise useless 2/1 body into a legitimate board presence. Although I'm puzzled that it's only a 3-of in that deck (even as tight as the decklist already is).

Still not a fan of this card in RUG Tempo or Team America, and god forbid, Landstill or High Tide. Reasonable in BUG Control and UR Delver, but not overwhelming.

[Hanni]

All the new cards they keep printing get overrated. I see slow control lists running Delvers, hyper aggressive lists running Snapcasters, so on and so forth. Snapcaster is great, but his home is in aggro/control decks that are built on the control spectrum as opposed to the tempo spectrum. So basically, I'm saying that I agree with you on that.

I disagree about its usefulness in control decks though. I think it has a home in control decks. It's 2/1 body is creature removal against alot of threats in the format (perfect example being unthreshed Mongoosies), and it has the bonus of the flashback on top of that. In some cases, it ends up being a 2-for-1 removal spell. It's also a clock on a clean board, which improves the combo matchup greatly for control decks.

[Mr. Safety]

I thought that Snapcaster would put Faeries back on the map, but he isn't as good as Delver in that deck. Overall, I've been fairly unimpressed with Snapcaster Mage. Good? Yes. Freakin' awesome? Not really, not to me. I agree with Hanni...if you're playing aggro control, or even hard control, he's great. He does everything you want by providing card advantage and a body to attack/equip/block. Tempo needs better threats for a faster clock, not neccessarily a 3-4 mana card advantage trick.

Snapcaster in High Tide seems a tad odd...it opens the deck unneccessarily to Spell Snare while making opponent's spot removal at least 'not dead', even if it isn't great.

[death]

His utility may be relegated to being just good in decks that are limited to dual colors (UR, UW, UB) further restricted by the availability of duals and the lack of penetration of multi-color decks in the top 8s. I must say though that having the opportunity to Snapcast Stifle, Sinkhole, Vindicate, aside from Hymn and Plow is quite impressive, at least in my version (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?23097-Esper-Ubw-Tempo). Snapcasting Ponder and Inquisition is weaksauce.


Tempo needs better threats for a faster clock, not neccessarily a 3-4 mana card advantage trick.
Because we have been used to traditional Tempo with Goyfs and Stalkers. In my opnion these are not mandatory for a deck to be labeled as Tempo.

[Mr. Safety]

Very true...I guess what I really mean is that tempo decks don't really benefit greatly from a full set of Snapcasters. Most tempo decks (in my experience) get to around 2-3 lands during a full game. It's hard to get up to 4 mana so you can really pull some tricks when you're only using 18 lands. Two copies of Snapcaster for late-game value? Sure. Four copies and risk it being a 'meh' threat when you get stuck on 2 lands and could have had something else? Sounds bad.

[Zilla]

Because we have been used to traditional Tempo with Goyfs and Stalkers. In my opnion these are not mandatory for a deck to be labeled as Tempo.
It's not just the limitations imposed by a very slim land count like Mr. Safety mentioned (although that's a big part of it.) Everything about Tempo's game plan is about setting your opponent back in the first few turns, and then exploiting that setback with the most efficient finishers possible.

In most cases, you only have a couple turns to convert your initial tempo gains into a win, which means these decks are focused heavily on the early to mid game, where Snapcaster is relatively weak.

[Koby]

I've been saying this for some time now, and even GerryT brought it up in his video - Snapcaster Mage is a 3 mana card. You can't do incredible things with it and still be playing Tempo. It belongs in a deck that's playing a long game like Stoneblade.

[death]

Typical Tempo is typical. Attacking an opponent's mana then dropping a threat seems to have worked for UR Goyf and UB Goyf for the longest time now because this strategy puts you ahead in board position, wins games in a few turns, provided the circumstances are right. However, Stifle>Snapacaster + Stifle is also a Tempo play, likewise Snapcaster + Sinkhole or Snapcaster + Plow on Dryad Arbor/Hierarch. These plays can completely knock an oppponent out of contention. I'm not advocating SCM in RUG or BUG though. But I don't have an issue about Snapcaster Mage being a 3-4-5 mana card, simply saying in 3-color decks like Esper Tempo, that card is too hard to pass up.

[Hanni]

Typical Tempo is typical. Attacking an opponent's mana then dropping a threat seems to have worked for UR Goyf and UB Goyf for the longest time now because this strategy puts you ahead in board position, wins games in a few turns, provided the circumstances are right. However, Stifle>Snapacaster + Stifle is also a Tempo play, likewise Snapcaster + Sinkhole or Snapcaster + Plow on Dryad Arbor/Hierarch. These plays can completely knock an oppponent out of contention. I'm not advocating SCM in RUG or BUG though. But I don't have an issue about Snapcaster Mage being a 3-4-5 mana card, simply saying in 3-color decks like Esper Tempo, that card is too hard to pass up.

I think the term "tempo" is getting thrown around too losely in this thread. Tempo exists in all games of magic, regardless if you're playing Canadian Thresh, Landstill, or TES.

Snapcaster flashing back a Swords to Plowshares hitting a Dryad Arbor is not the same sort of tempo play as a turn 1 Swords on a Dryad Arbor. By the time you have 3 mana to do that play, the gamestate is alot different. Same thing with the Stifle example.

The Esper Tempo deck you're referring to sounds alot like my Esperblade deck. I run Daze and Wasteland in that deck. That deck uses the early tempo gains differently, which is why Snapcaster works in that deck, and why I don't classify that deck as "Tempo Esper." The tempo gains, in that case, are to control the early game long enough to resolve bombs like Dark Confidant and Stoneforge Mystic, to put that deck so far ahead in card advantage that by the time the opponent recovers, they cannot really get back into the game.

When we say that Snapcaster is a bad fit in tempo decks, we don't mean Esperblade or "Tempo Esper," we mean decks like Canadian Threshold and Team America.

[Mr. Safety]

When we say that Snapcaster is a bad fit in tempo decks, we don't mean Esperblade or "Tempo Esper," we mean decks like Canadian Threshold and Team America.

Yeah, that's how I was seeing it, only I was thinking specifically RUG Tempo/Canadian Threshold. Esper seems like the perfect place for Snapcaster. He holds a Sword of A&B, Jitte, or even Batterskull just fine while creating back-breaking card advantage in the mid-game. That deck also plays more lands, making it much more feasible to hit 4 mana to make it happen.

[lordofthepit]

Bump again. Snapcaster is rarely played in the current format, seeing play in only two top decks (Deathblade and UWR Delver Blade), usually as a 2-of.

Most people would hypothesize that Deathrite has made the card worse, but I think the direct effect is negligible: unlike Ooze, Deathrite activates only once a turn at most, so it's easy to respond with Snapcaster when the Deathrite taps (and it can even fizzle the Deathrite's ability). I'd argue that an indirect effect is more significant: Esperblade was the best home for Snapcaster Mage, since it can provide utility as well as a body for a deck that can make use of an otherwise terrible 2/1, but Deathrite just does a better job.

Thoughts?

[Koby]

Thoughts?

Deathrite Shaman is a helluva card.

[Shawon]

Most people would hypothesize that Deathrite has made the card worse, but I think the direct effect is negligible: unlike Ooze, Deathrite activates only once a turn at most, so it's easy to respond with Snapcaster when the Deathrite taps (and it can even fizzle the Deathrite's ability). I'd argue that an indirect effect is more significant: Esperblade was the best home for Snapcaster Mage, since it can provide utility as well as a body for a deck that can make use of an otherwise terrible 2/1, but Deathrite just does a better job.

Thoughts?

Nicely said. The more I read what you're saying and think about it, it's less about DRS directly interacting with Snapcaster Mage to be the reason for SCM's decline than it is because of DRS just being a better card. Moreover, because DRS is so cheap and fast to get online, the incentive to rebuy your cheap spells via SCM over just running more answers or cards that act sooner (i.e. DRS) has diminished.

[apple713]

with his decline in play its odd that his price continues to rise...

[Barook]

with his decline in play its odd that his price continues to rise...
Maybe there's a Modern deck utilizing it?

The price should drop with the rotation, though.

[KobeBryan]

Half the time, this card is FOW fodder. Its pretty useless until at least turn 4-5

I don't even find it necessary to have it as a 4 of.

[AEnesidem]

Half the time, this card is FOW fodder. Its pretty useless until at least turn 4-5

I don't even find it necessary to have it as a 4 of.

Depends which deck really. In esperblade i find it an automatic 4 of, sometimes a 3 of if you need space. Snapcaster mage can pick a card away on turn 3 with thoughseize and late game he's everything you need in the deck, he's your additional brainstorms, pierces, discard etc... I a deck that shifts its gameplan around the opponent and hs the time to do so snapcaster mage is a powerhouse.

and the thing is, the deck actually needs fow fodder so i'd consider that to be another good function for the card.

[Lemnear]

As long as DRS is a centerpiece of the metagame, SCM is rarely worth more than the body to carry a Jitte. :/

[Black Rain]

All the new cards they keep printing get overrated. I see slow control lists running Delvers, hyper aggressive lists running Snapcasters, so on and so forth. Snapcaster is great, but his home is in aggro/control decks that are built on the control spectrum as opposed to the tempo spectrum. So basically, I'm saying that I agree with you on that.

I disagree about its usefulness in control decks though. I think it has a home in control decks. It's 2/1 body is creature removal against alot of threats in the format (perfect example being unthreshed Mongoosies), and it has the bonus of the flashback on top of that. In some cases, it ends up being a 2-for-1 removal spell. It's also a clock on a clean board, which improves the combo matchup greatly for control decks.

I totally agree with you Hanni and I have much respect for you and your deck ideologies. The only point I disagree with you about, and I havenn't seen discussed, is that I think Delver can be good in control lists as well, in fact I'm testing a version of U/W(b) control that runs Delver and it has been fantastic. It's like the way, way early(circa 1994-1996ish) control lists that ran Serendib and Rainbow Efreet,but for one U and no drawbacks. I know creatures in control is almost always a nonbo, but I think the meta has changed to that where running creatures in control is not as terrible as used to be. I know the main reason for no creatures in control was that it made you opponets removal irrelavent so it was like virtual card advantage, but what I have found in my testing with Delver in control is that in the early game it is a good blocker and buys you a at least a turn which for control is almost like a Timewalk, and early game if your ooponet doenst have the removal then watch out. In the late game it becomes a cheap win condition that you only spend one mana for , its terrific. Ill post a list after I test some more.