DCI Rating System change- Planeswalker Points

[KevinTrudeau]

Announcement (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/159b)

Planeswalker Points site (http://www.wizards.com/magic/planeswalkerpoints)

[anonymos]

This change makes me want to push one of the local stores to do Legacy FNM in addition to their usual draft or Standard... Beyond that, I'm not sure how I feel about this change yet. I have a feeling it'll work out like my rating did before, where I look at it once a year or so.

[Koby]

Apparently I'm a level 37 Sorcerer. Interesting.

[Philipp2293]

From now on I'm gonna pilot only piles anymore, cause I actually cared about my rating. Now, not so much.

[NecroYawgmoth]

So, I am a lvl 30 Guildmage now... WTF O.o?

[SpikeyMikey]

Level 33 here. I like this change; I think it's a net positive. Because byes and PT invites are seasonal and not based on lifetime points, it means that bad players with long tenures won't be inundating Pro level events. I think the lifetime level is irrelevant, as the flat point system doesn't tell you whether someone is good or just prolific. I do think, however, that they need to expand events that fall under the "competitive" level to include the SCG Opens/Invitationals and other massive events with several hundred people. I mean, let's be honest, the level of competition at an Open is higher than at your average PTQ. I know these tournaments aren't Wizards sponsored, but they are competitive and run at a high REL - they ought to count.

[clavio]

Now the next time someone gives me grief about playing magic I'll just tell them to fuck off because I'm a level 26 guildmage.

I don't quite get how it works. Is there any point in having a really high lifetime total?

Also I hope Jupiter considers doing some Legacy FNM.

Edit: Is the site going slow as hell for anyone else??

[ramanujan]

Evidently I am level 33. I really have no way of saying what this means. I think that this move is a good one. As has been mentioned above, there is an old guard that rides the gravy train with biscuit wheels. It is not that they are not great players, it is probably more fair to give more to those that grind every week than to the pro that goes to 6 tournaments a year to maintain a hold on the free ride.

It does not affect me either way, I don't play much more that 6 events a year and I am no pro, I've just been around since the beginning. This is going to make big waves among the PT regulars. So, do I now get to look down on those with a lower level than myself? Can I make the underlings fetch me stuff and polish my footwear? Perks like that might get me to enter more events.

[SpikeyMikey]

I don't quite get how it works. Is there any point in having a really high lifetime total?

Epeen? Otherwise, I don't think so.

[clavio]

One thing I like about this change is if it gives players more of an incentive to play out later rounds of tournaments even if they are already out of prize contention.

[Julian23]

I just recognized the following:

Top 300 Competitive players of a season receive 3 Byes for the next season.
Top 2.000 receive 2 byes.
Top 15.000 receive 3 byes.

FNMs and Casual Events don't count towards this rating.

[cdr]

A very obvious attempt to "gamify" ratings; players wanting to play in more events to increase meaningless total = more money for WotC.

[Julian23]

Yeah, but playing in as many events as possible will also increase your Competitive Total which will be used to calculate Byes for the next season.

[Jonathan Alexander]

So, I am a lvl 30 Guildmage now... WTF O.o?

Yeah, two days ago my rating was higher than yours. Now you have almost three times as many points as I have. Anyway, I think the system is pretty cool, but it heavily favours people who really just play a lot. Further, I noticed that playing in GPs gives you a lot of points, even if your scrub out.
Also, why do they have to give everything stupid names?

[Angelfire]

I don't love a system that only cares about total wins and not losses. This puts players who play in a fuck load of events at a significant advantage. Correct me if I'm wrong, but someone who goes 4-4 in four events would gain more rating than me who can only attend two events, but manage to go 7-1 both times. I mean I really don't give a fuck what the system is. It takes less stress out of cultivating your rating and it does make drawing/scooping to people more appealing and rewards people to stay in events when they scrub out.

I like saying I am ranked 15th in the State (In Legacy) more than I am a level 32 Invoker.

[NecroYawgmoth]

Yeah, two days ago my rating was higher than yours. Now you have almost three times as many points as I have. Anyway, I think the system is pretty cool, but it heavily favours people who really just play a lot. Further, I noticed that playing in GPs gives you a lot of points, even if your scrub out.
Also, why do they have to give everything stupid names?


...and Tobias Demmer's rating was higher than yours =P

[Admiral_Arzar]

Level 34 Invoker. I think I play this game too much...

[Richard Cheese]

Time to build a janky standard deck and show up at PTQs!!

Edit: Logged in and it seems pretty heavily skewed towards FNM. Recently got 11 points for going 3-0-1 at a 13-person Legacy event, vs. 33 points for 3-2-0 at a 25-person FNM. I get that the Legacy event was smaller, but those points were way more challenging to come by.

Overall though, I kinda like the change. I know some people hate the gamification of everything, but I think you can easily ignore that whole aspect if you really want to. Mostly, I just like fact that it removes the incentive to drop/draw if you're like me and just enjoy playing the game, win or lose.

[Koby]

This would encourage me to play Belcher in legacy events. No dis-incentive for losses!

[Michael Keller]

I've never given too much of a shit about my D.C.I. rating. I expect to do well in each tournament I play in, and unless I'm planning on playing in an extremely high-profile event, to me it's nothing more than a marking point to see how well I'm doing at any given stretch of time.

If you do well at big tournaments, people will recognize you by name; word travels fast these days with the internet. We play competitive Magic to build ourselves a Legacy, which will last far longer than any points earned from a tournament.

[Mark Sun]

Not sure what to think. I'm just not a fan of the system rewarding for wins but not punishing for losses -- you learn more from your mishaps than anything else, honestly.

[Julian23]

@Morbid: I agree with what you said but even more I dislike systems that encourage not playing events.

[clavio]

This totally worked. I had zero plans on going to GP Montreal but now it might happen because I could earn a shitton of these points which could help me get byes in the next season. Wp wizards....

[Admiral_Arzar]

This would encourage me to play Belcher in legacy events. No dis-incentive for losses!

LOL. Now that you put it that way, it might be time for some burping.

[Julian23]

This totally worked. I had zero plans on going to GP Montreal but now it might happen because I could earn a shitton of these points which could help me get byes in the next season. Wp wizards....

Yeah, I now also actually consider attending nearby GPs unless the format is a total mess.

[crovakiet]

Time to build a janky standard deck and show up at PTQs!!

Edit: Logged in and it seems pretty heavily skewed towards FNM. Recently got 11 points for going 3-0-1 at a 13-person Legacy event, vs. 33 points for 3-2-0 at a 25-person FNM. I get that the Legacy event was smaller, but those points were way more challenging to come by.

Overall though, I kinda like the change. I know some people hate the gamification of everything, but I think you can easily ignore that whole aspect if you really want to. Mostly, I just like fact that it removes the incentive to drop/draw if you're like me and just enjoy playing the game, win or lose.

I dislike and like the change(s)...I dislike the fact that I got 39 points for 1st place at an FNM whereas I received far less points for a Legacy event in which the environment was a lot tougher. I do like that I don't have to worry about my rating and just play for the sake of playing without having to worry that I am only gaining 1-2 points per win while at the same time having a chance to lose 11+...especially if I was playing a jank deck vs. some random dude that I have no clue what their rating is at...

[Tacosnape]

This is all a money scheme. Wizards is bullshit.

Whatever. I'll screen cap my fucking amazing ELO-style ratings, frame them on my wall, and remember when being good at something mattered more than spending copious amounts of money on their bullshit products.

Shame. One really good run in Atlanta this weekend would've been all I needed to hit #1 for just one day.

EDIT: Also, all other personal grudges aside, what the hell is with the insane FNM multiplier? I like to drink, play commander, and do things involving some nonzero number of beautiful women on Fridays, and get my rating points other times. I don't like being punished for this.

[Koby]

Apparently Legacy is "Casual" tournament structure, but FNM is "serious business". :laugh:

[Julian23]

edit: nevermind, I was wrong.

[clavio]

You should note that FNM Rating points aren't worth anything. Scoring 8 Competitive Total Points in a Legacy event is inifinitely more important than 38 FNM Total points.

Are you sure? The way I interpreted it was that while FNM points are separate from your competitive points, the points you earn from FNM still dump into your competitive total.


Competitive Events

In competitive events (all events that are not casual), the number of Planeswalker Points you earn depends on the number of people in the event, your match record, and type of event (FNM, Pro Tour Qualifier, World Championship, etc).

[dschalter]

You should note that FNM Rating points aren't worth anything. Scoring 8 Competitive Total Points in a Legacy event is inifinitely more important than 38 FNM Total points.

This is incorrect. FNM points are competitive points.

[cdr]

Yeah, there are multiple references to FNM counting for Competitive.

[Julian23]

In competitive events (all events that are not casual), the number of Planeswalker Points you earn depends on the number of people in the event, your match record, and type of event (FNM, Pro Tour Qualifier, World Championship, etc).

Points from competitive events count toward your Lifetime total and toward your Competitive total for the current Competitive Season. Depending on the type of event, points from competitive events may also count toward your Friday Night Magic total or your Professional total.

Source (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/159b)

You're right, I was confused by the co-existance of both a Competitive Total AND a FNM Total. To be fair, that's kind of bullshit. Why is playing in an easy FNM three times worth more than a Legacy event?!

[cdr]

Because Wizards wants people to play FNM. There are numerous dials WotC can turn in this system to direct player behavior.

[Julian23]

So this means, that if I want to maintain my current rating byes, I will very likely need to start playing in FNMs again. Actually to be rather playing FNMs instead of local Legacy tournaments? I like that the new system encourages people to play more Magic but that emphasis on FNMs makes me:

a sad panda (-_-)


/edit: There's also the problem with RELs. FNMs have always been rather casual events, where people usually allow take-backs and mainly try to enjoy their time. Now they award the same amount of Competitive Points as Grand Prix Trials, which are usually hard-fought events with REL Competitive (at least where I live). This might cause problems. I don't wanna be super strict about rules at my local FNM...but now those events actually matter. When I didn't play in them before, now I will play them with very competitive spirit, trying to squeeze out every advantage I can get from my opponent's missplays. This doesn't feel right.

[Leftconsin]

I'm not exactly thrilled about getting hosed for playing Legacy instead of Standard.

[Qax]

Doing FNM:s to get byes for legacy GP:s. Really?

[Koby]

Doing FNM:s to get byes for legacy GP:s. Really?

You would need to play larger FNM events, and play them frequently in order to reach the point where you qualify for byes.

The way the system is setup, it's going to be difficult to "climb the ladder" to reach that point unless you're already there.

PTQs are still a better bang for your buck. The PTQs on my rating show 100 points gains, the last Legacy tournament I went to gained me 20. :\

[Julian23]

From Zvi's Twitter:


I got about 550 for winning PT: Tokyo and 120 for getting Top 8 in a PTQ. A few tweaks, anyone?


Sum's it up quite nicely....


From PVDR:


In a certain time period, my results were a GP 1st, a GP t4, a GP t16 and a PT t64. For that time period, I was 53rd on the planeswalker points - competitive list. 1400 points behind the leader, Alex Bertoncini, who did not even play in the PT. I don't like this system :(

[Guy I Don't Know]

Cool idea but some criticism. How can I say I am a level 37 sorcerer without laughing? I literally cannot bring this up to anyone who hasn't played magic again... Also the multipliers seem really random and should be tweaked. Going 3-1 5 times at a FNM should not equal a PTQ 2nd place....

[Koby]

Sum's it up quite nicely....
From PVDR:
In a certain time period, my results were a GP 1st, a GP t4, a GP t16 and a PT t64. For that time period, I was 53rd on the planeswalker points - competitive list. 1400 points behind the leader, Alex Bertoncini, who did not even play in the PT. I don't like this system :(

I think I understand the motivation that WotC is aiming for - Play Magic. This means it rewards people who go to tournaments as Grinders. Does it make sense then that someone who goes to play a PTQ-level tournament every weekend have more points than a Pro who plays... 10 tournament? a year?

I don't see anything inherently wrong with that system that rewards Play rather than Not-Play. If anything this could encourage Pro-players to become more closely aligned with their local communities without the fear that their rating will suffer.


Cool idea but some criticism. How can I say I am a level 37 sorcerer without laughing? I literally cannot bring this up to anyone who hasn't played magic again... Also the multipliers seem really random and should be tweaked. Going 3-1 5 times at a FNM should not equal a PTQ 2nd place....

Any more than laugh when you "cast a spell, Unsummoning your opponent's Faerie from the battlefield, then put the spell in a graveyard"? If you want to be non-discrete, you can say you're ranked at level 37. The "Sorcerer" seems like fluff.

[Julian23]

It sucks that a big portion of a season's Byes will now go to people that play a shitload of FNMs but will never top8 a real tournament, instead of to people that do. Because those people are better players and should be rewarded with Byes. Does that sound selfish to you? It should! Because I don't like it and I think it's unfair.

[Richard Cheese]

Seems like most of the griping is around the insane 3x multiplier for FNMs. If they just dropped that back to 1x it seems like things would mostly be ok. I get that they want people doing more FNM because it's mostly Standard and Limited (= more product opened), but they really are way more casual.

Does anyone here know if stores are allowed to run multiple events/formats for FNM? I seriously doubt anywhere local is going to want to trade their regular 30+ FNM crowd for 10-15 Legacy players, but if they could run a second event on the side, it might happen.

[Nidd]

Level 36 guys, sup?

If I hadn't had my break, I'm pretty sure I'd be level 40+... Oh wait, the levels are quite useless, aren't they?

[Tinefol]

Going 3-0 at 8players draft fnm gives you about as many points as you get for t8ing a 635 players BoM. Fair deal and totally awesome system.


And nope, you can't play legacy FNM, the legal formats for FNM are limited, type2 and extended (lol!).

[dahcmai]

Well, it does fix the old problem of hitting 1900 and not playing in anything again so you can keep byes for that one Grand Prix that gets close. I got stuck in that position once and it sucked since I couldn't lose to anyone or even draw without losing mass points. So what happens? I don't play for months. Yeah, that's a bummer. Grand Prixs rarely come near me since I live in Upper Michigan. It's sad when a 7 hour drive is close. I never liked having to time them out to have byes. I'm at least happy about that part.

What exactly are the levels good for anyway? I'm lvl 40 if it's good for anything. I guess I'll be racking these points up since we have FNM, Game Days, Pre-releases, Legacy, and now Modern all at our store on a regular basis.

[Tacosnape]

Yeah. I'm only level 31. And I have no intentions to play formats I hate to reward Wizards for their asshattery.

Alcohol and Commander is seeming like a better and better idea. Screw real formats.

[dahcmai]

As if Alcohol and Commander was a bad idea.

[tsabo_tavoc]

What? I only played 1 GPT and a couple drafts, and I am a Lvl 16 Adept. I like WotC even more.

[dahcmai]

Wow, I just went through my whole list and I was getting more points for FNM's placing crappy than winning Legacy, Vintage, decent placings in Grand Prixs, and even one win in a PTQ. FNM's are heavy, heavy weighted. Though I did get a ton for GP Columbus for some reason, but not GP Chicago and I placed higher in Chi town. I don't get this system.


Out of curiosity, how weighted it is for one of those SCG tournaments? I have never been to one of those so I wondered.

[Julian23]

I just realized Byes at GP also award points. So i got +24 +24 +24 for the first three rounds of GP Madrid without even playing those. Seems strange.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I don't like this system :(

I finally got my rating up to 1800 and with this new system my rating got punted toward the end of the list.

[Leftconsin]

Out of curiosity, how weighted it is for one of those SCG tournaments? I have never been to one of those so I wondered.

Multiplier=1. Same as any other non-premier.

[Tacosnape]

So Top 8 at a Starcity is less than playing at a local FNM?

Great story.

[CorpT]

Multiplier=1. Same as any other non-premier.

From SCG:Louisville:
Event Type: Magic WPN Premium Tournament
Event Multiplier: x 3
Players: 203
Participation Points: 15
Format: Legacy
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, United States

[Guy I Don't Know]

Multiplier=1. Same as any other non-premier.

It is almost like SCG aren't sanctioned :)

[Tacosnape]

From SCG:Louisville:
Event Type: Magic WPN Premium Tournament
Event Multiplier: x 3
Players: 203
Participation Points: 15
Format: Legacy
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, United States

That's less awful then, but still. FNM needs to be knocked down to at least no more than 2.

[Leftconsin]

From SCG:Louisville:
Event Type: Magic WPN Premium Tournament
Event Multiplier: x 3
Players: 203
Participation Points: 15
Format: Legacy
Location: Louisville, Kentucky, United States

That's odd. Mine from SGC Indy
Event Type: Magic Tournament
Event Multiplier: x 1
Players: 286
Participation Points: 6
Format: Legacy
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, United States

EDIT: It was clearly sanctioned differently.

[CorpT]

It definitely provides very little incentive to do anything but large tournaments and FNM.

[BenBleiweiss]

Multiplier=1. Same as any other non-premier.

SCG Opens are x3.

- Ben

[crovakiet]

It definitely provides very little incentive to do anything but large tournaments and FNM.

Forget about Modern killing Legacy! This will kill Legacy and maybe Modern given the point distribution between local Legacy events and FNM....Gawd I hate standard

[Xantid Swarm]

I confirm that SCG Opens are x3. Played at Boston and Pittsburg and both gave me lots of points (72 and 84, with x3).

That said, the x3 for FNM is really stupid. There is no real justification and it feel like Wizard force us to play on friday nights. It can also create a situation where everybody that try to accumulate points to get byes will have to play in FNM. And if you go play in FNM to get points for byes, you will probably play competitivly and not allow take backs from opponents.

Damn, I wasn't supposed to play in the GP Montreal. This is my daughter's birdday, that weekend! Now I think I'll go register, play few rounds and drop just for the crazy amount of points it award (x8, including 1 round bye for 24 points).

Well, for inciting people to play, this system will probably work (especialy for FNM).

[danyul]

It's actually kind of genius of WOTC, in a way. They will never break that reserve list so why not disincentivize players from swarming on Legacy tourneys by giving less points for Legacy tourneys and pumping up the points from Standard events. They sell more new product with new FNM faces and lower the demand for older staples as Legacy tournaments fall out of favor.

Oh, also they get people to stop sitting on their ratings. Isn't that swell too?

[cupajoe]

Silly people.....Wizards doesn't care about whether YOU like the format. You are a valued customer, but not the most valued customers......

Who are the most valued tournament players that make Wizards the most money?

FNM players, of course. It's not even close, really, when you consider how many people FNMs reach versus the other tournaments combined.

So having more incentives to play FNMs means more money directly into Wizards pockets.....If it works out as Wizards hopes, you'll have even greater attendance at FNMs, where lots of product is opened and people are buying only the latest cards for their Standard decks!

It's also a brilliant psychological ploy.....Win enough at your local FNM and you could get byes at GPs or be invited to the FNM Championship!.....It would be like going to the local poker halls and knowing that if you did great at the poker hall in Toledo, Ohio, you could have your entry fee paid for at the World Series of Poker......It brings the fantasy of being part of the of the larger game down to the local level, where, frankly, probably 90 percent of the FNM players aren't even thinking for a second about trying out for the Pro Tour. But hey, if I do great here, I could get an invite to play at the FNM championship in NYC, or wherever they have it...I might take a weekend off to do that, sure...Pretty good marketing strategy, IMHO

I wouldn't have expected them to do anything differently, and in fact, it's rather shocking that they didn't do it sooner

[Gambit]

Holy Fuck what a bitchfest. How many of you will this actually have an impact on? My guess is about 1%. Rating means jack shit for 99% of the mtg community, it's extremely difficult to get on the tour just on rating. Guess what, it's going to be fucking hard to get on the protour with Planeswalker Points also! Nobody who just plays FNM's is going to be in the top 10 in North America. Yep, basically the same, but people will want to play more. If this new system rewards people for devoting their life to the game, that's fine, they probably should be rewarded. It's a god damn game, remind yourself sometimes.

[mchainmail]

Holy Fuck what a bitchfest. How many of you will this actually have an impact on? My guess is about 1%. Rating means jack shit for 99% of the mtg community, it's extremely difficult to get on the tour just on rating. Guess what, it's going to be fucking hard to get on the protour with Planeswalker Points also! Nobody who just plays FNM's is going to be in the top 10 in North America. Yep, basically the same, but people will want to play more. If this new system rewards people for devoting their life to the game, that's fine, they probably should be rewarded. It's a god damn game, remind yourself sometimes.

There's a lot of Legacy grinders I know with reasonable ratings. A lot with 2 byes, and tons with 1 byes. Will that be possible in the new system?



Formal Legacy FNMs aren't allowed, and will result in losing sanctioning (potentially)

[Gambit]

There's a lot of Legacy grinders I know with reasonable ratings. A lot with 2 byes, and tons with 1 byes. Will that be possible in the new system?



Formal Legacy FNMs aren't allowed, and will result in losing sanctioning (potentially)

If they really do they really get most of their points through legacy tournaments then that is a reasonable argument. But it seems to me that most of the "legacy Grinders" are also limited, and to some extent standard grinders as well, getting most of their points from the latter 2. I may have been a little harsh, but my point stands that this impacts very few players negatively, and if you like legacy you will still play. 1 bye doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things.

[Gambit]

Double post

[Shugyosha]

There's a lot of Legacy grinders I know with reasonable ratings. A lot with 2 byes, and tons with 1 byes. Will that be possible in the new system?

That's exactly the problem I have with the new system. Rating is more skill based. I received a rating bye by playing only few events with good finishes. With Planeswalker Points it is not about my own performance anymore and not about win/loss but about how many wins I can rack up in how many events compared to other people's performance. That are two disadvantages for us in one change.

If they really would have liked to fix ELO rating they should have introduced a rating decay via bonus pool. Rating decay would be an incentive to play in events too.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Haha I think they made some mistakes entering some of the events in the Planeswalker Points site. I got 15 points for JOINING a nationals grinder at GenCon and I got 15 points TOTAL for joining and winning 3 matches in the Legacy Champs.

[Leftconsin]

If they really would have liked to fix ELO rating they should have introduced a rating decay via bonus pool. Rating decay would be an incentive to play in events too.

The complexity of that kind of system really excludes it as a possibility. I'm gathering talking through judge channels that simplicity was a big factor in this decision.

Also, about the SCG multiplier, if Ben says its 3, its 3. I'm still confused why I only got a multiplier of 1.

[dontbiteitholmes]

The complexity of that kind of system really excludes it as a possibility. I'm gathering talking through judge channels that simplicity was a big factor in this decision.

Also, about the SCG multiplier, if Ben says its 3, its 3. I'm still confused why I only got a multiplier of 1.

Some of the older SCG events for some reason had a multiplier of 1x it seems, the newer ones all seem to have a 3x for me.

[CorpT]

The complexity of that kind of system really excludes it as a possibility. I'm gathering talking through judge channels that simplicity was a big factor in this decision.

Also, about the SCG multiplier, if Ben says its 3, its 3. I'm still confused why I only got a multiplier of 1.

Exactly. The old system had plenty of flaws as well. The new system has some flaws, but it seems pretty reasonable. I wish there were a way to increase the multiplier on tournaments that are small, but still competitive. An event multiplier of x1 is basically a useless tournament under this system.

[Fry]

I like and dislike this change...

The loss of a legacy rating ticks me off, since it was the only rating I truly cared about. I liked limited, but having the legacy specific rating was great, now it's just a mere shadow compared to what you can earn in the STD FNM's, which where I live you're lucky to get 9-10 people to show up. I can have a lot more fun playing casual magic on Fridays at the local campus with a bunch of friends who don't play STD than I can winning most of the FMN's, since I am one of two actual good players in the area, and the other player who's good doesn't even show up all the time anyway.

I do like that there is a way to see where you could be if you never lost points, but it's not on the same scale as before. I would have liked the DCI rating to show what your total points acrued could have been. It would have been useless, but interesting, which is exactly what the PWP system means to me, I am a level 37 whatever, but that means jack to me other than I've been playing for a decade in sanctioned events.

The system doesn't break down the formats that you play, and there is a crazy incentive for going to an FNM with a lot of crappy players just you can earn more points by beating them. The amount of points earned doesn't take into account the different levels of play skill, just that you play.

To conclude I greatly dislike the new system, verging on despising it because it really doesn't value what most of us here on The Source hold dear, The Legacy Format. There is no incentive to playing in a legacy event for points anymore, because you only have a multiplier of one, where the crap ton of points you can get by playing against new/poor players. I would choose to keep the DCI Rating system over this PWP anyday, it might be(to a point I suppose...) that it's a new system, but still I think that they could have made it more appealing for older players as well as the newer players. I already believe that this new system needs revamping.

[Antonius]

well, I apparently have two active DCI numbers, one is a level 22 the other, level 27. hmmm

[dontbiteitholmes]

I'm pretty sure this system will get tweaked as they go. A lot of it just doesn't make sense right now and you are probably going to see people trying to game the system this first "season."

[2Rach]

Exactly. The old system had plenty of flaws as well. The new system has some flaws, but it seems pretty reasonable. I wish there were a way to increase the multiplier on tournaments that are small, but still competitive. An event multiplier of x1 is basically a useless tournament under this system.
The reason those SCG events are x1 instead of x3 is because the older Legacy Opens were 16k, not 32k like they've been for a while.

EDIT:
At least I assume that's why.

[Xantid Swarm]

If they really do they really get most of their points through legacy tournaments then that is a reasonable argument. But it seems to me that most of the "legacy Grinders" are also limited, and to some extent standard grinders as well, getting most of their points from the latter 2. I may have been a little harsh, but my point stands that this impacts very few players negatively, and if you like legacy you will still play. 1 bye doesn't mean that much in the grand scheme of things.

I can speak for myself: I raised my DCI rating to 1962 (2 byes) just before GP Providence by playing ONLY Legacy during 10 months. Under the new system, I would have got 238 points during the period counting for Providence (dec. 27th 2010 - april 10th 2011). That would have put me in 18824th position, out of the 1 bye cut by almost 4000 places. The reason is simple: each of my 4-0 at the local store weakly Legacy event worth less than a 2-2 from random Joe at FNM.

I appreciate the incitive to play in the new system. One week before Providence, I droped from a tournement after taking 1 loss to avoid to risk my second bye, despite being 3-1 with a sure place in the top 8. This was stupid: the former system encourage you to stop playing at some points, and a lot of people denounced it. My first reaction was to welcome the change for that very reason.

I can accept the fact that a win against a great player worth the same than a win against a nobody, even if it's a bit sad. What I can't accept is the fact that even if I play Legacy each week, and I did well, I can't compete with a bad player that go to every FNM. Think about it: my 3-1 worth the same points than his 1-3! (and in fact probably less as he will receive more point for participation if the turnout is bigger).

This is a major change as before, FNM (as Prerelease) was 8K events while any other competitive event was at least 16K. For players that wanted GP byes or National qualification, FNM was not important at all. Now this change can impact greatly the profile of FNM's players. I can see all the best players wanting qualification for National playing religiously every friday, and playing to win every round with high competitive spirit (9 points at stake each time!). I understand that Wizard want the grestest possible atendances at FNM, but I don't know if they anticipate how it can mess with the semi-casual spirit of those events.

[nyoro]

i'm lvl 31 invoker so u nub can QQ more cuz i ez pwn'd.

God this feel like i just played some fuking MMORPGs.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

I have absolutely no stake in rating and will never get byes or perks (can't/don't play enough), but I can't see how this system functions in any way except rewarding grinding a lot more; it doesn't even serve as an indicator of relative skill, what "rating" is meant to do. There's no breakdown by format, no accounting for variation in skill levels, and no way to tell at a glance whether a player is consistently good. I mean, yeah, the ELO system was broken as can be, but shouldn't they try and replace it with something good instead of another mess?

[SpikeyMikey]

SCG Opens are x3.

- Ben

Ben, I know you don't really get a say in it, but don't you think it's a little ridiculous that they consider FNM to be as highly competitive as an SCG Open? I mean, let's be honest, if there were sanctioned FNMs in my area, I could probably go in and 4-0 them every time. If I go 4-0 to start off an Open, I'm pretty damn pleased with myself.

[Tao]

With the help of way more Grand Prix in the USA and SCG this means that these top 65 players that arent qualified otherwise will EXCLUSIVELY be US Americans. Wow that is racist...

[citanul]

How can this not be a bad system? It considers players to be ranked by the amount they play. The same system has been introduced in my LGS. 5 points for each tournament you play, 1 point or each player behind you. After 3 months you get prizes for this. Want to know who wins these things? The players that are there at every event, even if they are bad.

Just consider the following example:
One player plays 10 GP's and has a less than average score of 4-5.
The other player can only play 3 GP's but goes 11-4 in all three, that is a top64 score.
Who do you think is the better player? Not the one who's higher ranked, that's who. 40 wins compared to 33, not even counting the participation points.

And FNM being a competitive environment is just hilarious. I didn't stop playing FNM because I lost rating, if that was the case I would've stopped playing Legacy as well. I stopped playing FNM because the players there are just below average. I don't get a challenge out of it and I don't learn anything from playing in an FNM.

I don't actually care about rating but it did give me some bye's in GP's. I won't care about the new system either but I sure as hell won't be playing FNM's to gain points.

[ramanujan]

For what it is worth, I do like how the best players will now be seen in FNM. I know that I have seen first hand the effects of watching great players sit on thier ratings. It was not good for the game. I love the fact that FNM will most certainly be larger events and that the quality of opponents should increase. This points system will also encurage people to play through events instead of dropping after two losses. I welcome that. However, I bet that the side events at GPs will take a noticable hit in attendence once people realize that they can get 24 points for each win, even if they are out of contention to make day 2. Similar effects will be seen at PT and PTQ events. When it is a mad dash for points, people will stick around through the late rounds to grab up more wins.

The pros have it in thier hands to continue as pros. They have an edge in attending a 12x tournament with many 12x rounds to pad thier points. We'll see how the gravy train folks end up, but I bet they will be fine if they want to play more, and they might not if they don't. If a pro doesent want to play often, perhaps they should let others that do take thier place. Pros are the face of our game, they should want to show thiers at the local level often and illustrate why they have that coveted status. The ELO system discouraged this in a most obvious fashion.

I mirror the thoughts of many here that say larger FNM events wll almost certainly give an edge due to more rounds. I personally hope that my local gaming store will start doing top 4/8 whenever applicable for FNM as that adds up to 27 more points for the tournament winners.

[Guy I Don't Know]

I think this is fine as long as they put a way to play legacy weekly at 3x... otherwise I can see them losing some of their legacy player base. This is good marketing no doubt, but I feel like the are shafting Legacy players as a result.

[Jim Higginbottom]

you can't run fnm as legacy.

[Mark Sun]

Just consider the following example:
One player plays 10 GP's and has a less than average score of 4-5.
The other player can only play 3 GP's but goes 11-4 in all three, that is a top64 score.
Who do you think is the better player? Not the one who's higher ranked, that's who. 40 wins compared to 33, not even counting the participation points.

You're missing an important statistic. Player A has given WOTC $400. Player B has only given them $120. Just sayin'.

[dschalter]

You're missing an important statistic. Player A has given WOTC $400. Player B has only given them $120. Just sayin'.

Well, to be more precise, WoTC doesn't make that much off the entry fee- running a GP is expensive- what they make money off of is people having decks and buying or trading for cards that someone else bought to get those decks.

[Zay]

All I know about the new rating system is I am a 36 level Sorcerer and if it leaks out, I fear that I shall never get laid again.


-Zay

[TeenieBopper]

Anybody on this site who complains about this change is a fucking moron. "Waaah, waaah, this rewards the people who play more, not the ones who win more!" That's debatable, but sure, I'll go with it. You're sure as fuck not X-0'ing any GPs. Want to know how I know? You're on a fuckin' Legacy website.

[Watcher487]

Anybody on this site who complains about this change is a fucking moron. "Waaah, waaah, this rewards the people who play more, not the ones who win more!" That's debatable, but sure, I'll go with it. You're sure as fuck not X-0'ing any GPs. Want to know how I know? You're on a fuckin' Legacy website.

This is the Thread and Teenie just sumed up everything that needs to be said.

Both systems are flawed, but guess what, it's never going to be truly perfect and Hasbro has to look at the bottom line. Hasbro has always been business first (even if you deny it). And this system is better for them.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Seems the regular ratings at thedci.com are still being recorded. Mine just went up.

[citanul]

Anybody on this site who complains about this change is a fucking moron. "Waaah, waaah, this rewards the people who play more, not the ones who win more!" That's debatable, but sure, I'll go with it. You're sure as fuck not X-0'ing any GPs. Want to know how I know? You're on a fuckin' Legacy website.


So because I as a player enjoy Legacy and used it as a stepping stone to get better I can't be good in any other format?
I don't have an issue with the rating qualifications, it was insanely hard before and it will still be hard now. Don't know which will be harder. The issue for me is that they consider people playing more to be better which is wrong.

[Koby]

The issue for me is that they consider people playing more to be better which is wrong.

Wrong for whom? It puts bodies in seats at local stores. This is a benefit mainly to the local stores, encourages players to play rather than not, and is rewarded by WotC for handing out more freebies/locals only tournaments.

It encourages more FNM tournaments which helps WotC's bottom line in selling boosters. Is it surprising that they wish to move to this tactic?

[cupajoe]

"Dschalter said Well, to be more precise, WoTC doesn't make that much off the entry fee- running a GP is expensive- what they make money off of is people having decks and buying or trading for cards that someone else bought to get those decks."


Further proving the point that FNM is far more lucrative for Wizards than GPs, Pro Tours, etc., which is why it makes absolute sense to do what they're doing with the Planeswalker Points

FNM is close to perfect for Wizards from a marketing and money-making perspective....Hundreds of stores across the U.S. are hosting these things. Wizards doesn't have to pay for the site, the staff, utilities, etc.....those costs are all borne by the LGS....Wizards sends a few promotional cards their way and that's it

Meanwhile, thousands of people, EVERY WEEK, are buying cards, packs, etc. to be competitive in FNM, dwarfing the number of people playing in GPs and Pro Tours...And, on top of it all, they have to keep doing so because Standard rotates, etc.

For Wizards not to heavily promote FNM in every way possible would be a huge mistake on their part. So rewarding frequent play at FNMs is the right decision.

Is the system fair? Of course not. Should Wizards care about that? Not really.

If anything the FNM championship is almost too conservative. Instead of the Top 100 being invited to the year-end championship, they should probably expand it to the Top 250 and exclude pros (from the FNM championship tourney, the pros should still be able to get PPoints from FNMs if they wanted to) to maintain the egalitarian feel of it and maximize the lure to the kitchen table players. They could probably also do something cute like hand out 25 random invitations to people who played in at least 10 FNMs over the course of a year, kind of like a wild card entry.

The only other thing they could do, IMHO, is to allow gaming stores the option of changing the FNM format once per month, or once every two months, something to throw a bone to non-standard players (like people on this site)

I would propose sanctioning the Choose Your Own Standard format, because the beauty of it for an FNM is, you could just bring your current Standard deck, or you could bring your deck from two years ago or design one from the 1990s blocks, whatever you wanted to do.....I doubt they'll do it, however.....

[dahcmai]

If they really wanted to promote FNM's, all they had to do was give out promos worth getting. Not ones about to rotate or that already have. I wonder how many people would show up to an FNM if the promo was a Wasteland or foil Force of Will? Hmmmm.

[Julian23]

However, if WotC starts handing out actually good cards at FNMs, they would again be kinda "forced" to create a new format for all those Magic kiddies that enjoy casual play in a pseudo-competitive enviorment.

I'm telling you, if 50€+ cards are up for grabs at FNM*, I'm playing as tight and evil as possible. Not much fun for more opponents involved, unless they're playing with competitive spirits as welll. FNM isn't meant to be super competitive.

Still, Multiplier 3 for FNM event feels really, really unfair.


(*of course, those cards would subsequently drop in value.)

[NecroYawgmoth]

geez people... really you should calm down.

Yes, I don't like that new system also, and yes, it's kinda weird that FNM gives you a +3 multiplier. I also feel sorry for people like Taco, who had the goal of getting 1st, and then WotC ruined thier dream.


But, seriously... think about it. -> Think about it with a bit logic and the point of view from WotC.

WotC is a company that wants to make money, like all big companies want to. Can you blame them for it? NO... Where does WotC gets the most $$$ from...? ...T2 and Boosterdrafts aka FNM. Yes this multiplier x3 is unfair, but if people want a high rating, they need to play the things that gives WOTC the money. They get rating, WotC gets money. If they don't want to, they don't get the rating. But there are many players who don't give a shit on their points that easily, and will blindly play more FNMs then before, which results in that what WotC wants. Money.

In the end, its WotC's decision, and they can do whatever the fuck they want. They'll always find new ways to get more cash out of MtG and this is one of them. Deal with it.

[SpikeyMikey]

geez people... really you should calm down.

Yes, I don't like that new system also, and yes, it's kinda weird that FNM gives you a +3 multiplier. I also feel sorry for people like Taco, who had the goal of getting 1st, and then WotC ruined thier dream.


But, seriously... think about it. -> Think about it with a bit logic and the point of view from WotC.

WotC is a company that wants to make money, like all big companies want to. Can you blame them for it? NO... Where does WotC gets the most $$$ from...? ...T2 and Boosterdrafts aka FNM. Yes this multiplier x3 is unfair, but if people want a high rating, they need to play the things that gives WOTC the money. They get rating, WotC gets money. If they don't want to, they don't get the rating. But there are many players who don't give a shit on their points that easily, and will blindly play more FNMs then before, which results in that what WotC wants. Money.

In the end, its WotC's decision, and they can do whatever the fuck they want. They'll always find new ways to get more cash out of MtG and this is one of them. Deal with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But I do think it's sad that the game is no longer important to Wizards as a game. I felt the same way when Blizzard shafted the hardcore raiders to please the drooling idiots that couldn't do raids because they were too bad. And just like I quit paying for WoW, I've quit buying Magic cards. I'm still on the forums, on Workstation and on Cockatrice, but I don't own any decks anymore.

[dahcmai]

It's pretty hard to make changes at all without pissing off people, but face it. From a business standpoint, it's a great idea. Promote the thing that helps sell boosters the most. Legacy does far from sell boosters.

[NecroYawgmoth]

New stuff from the mothership regarding points...

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/twtw/159

[Tacosnape]

So your point was that, if someone pays me $20 to kick a laundry basket full of puppies down a stairwell, I'm justified in doing so because it's monetarily in my best interests?

Seems good.

The biggest problems with the systems are as follows:

1. There's no incentive to play Legacy anymore if you care at all about points. I don't. Fuck their system. I'll play the format I like and be damned if they get my money for standard and limited. Just be aware that Legacy will die as a result of this, assuming the 3x multiplier doesn't change and that Legacy is never legalized for FNM or given an equivalent means to produce mass points. I intend to be selling off a lot of my Legacy staples in Atlanta. Because they're going to drop. All of them. Count on it.

2. There's no reward for being absolutely amazing at magic. A grinder with no life who averages 2-2 or 3-1 on most events will totally blow away an incredible player who has a job and a family and can only play once or twice a week, but crushes the grinder every time they're paired up. I can name four people who have never one time defeated me in a match who are at least 5+ levels higher than me now. And I imagine there's plenty of players who are quite better than me who are feeling largely the same way right now.

And yes, I won't deny a personal bias in all this. Eternal rating aside, before this happened? My Total rating (13th in the world) was enough to get me free invitations to the pro tour. Now this won't happen, because I'll never have the time, money, or drive to spend my entire life playing magic. This is a potentially life-changing blow to me. What if, by some incredible fluke, I managed to go and finish in the money at a pro tour? (I acknowledge I'd probably be the worst player at the event, but still, just speculating.) 4-5 digits of money is life changing for someone who scrapes to get by. Now I never have and never will. My win-loss ratio doesn't matter anymore, and people like me, who if they were millionaires and didn't have other things in life to occupy them might could at least dream of being a lower end occasional PT hack, get the shaft. Because being good doesn't matter anymore.

[KevinTrudeau]

I really feel for you Taco. There is one beam of light- Worlds in San Fran is the last Pro Tour event that's using ELO for invites, which you would qualify for since you are (as you say) in the top 50 in DCI Total Rating in North America. If you can do well there, you can earn your way onto the gravy train.

[NecroYawgmoth]

So your point was that, if someone pays me $20 to kick a laundry basket full of puppies down a stairwell, I'm justified in doing so because it's monetarily in my best interests?

Seems good.

The biggest problems with the systems are as follows:

1. There's no incentive to play Legacy anymore if you care at all about points. I don't. Fuck their system. I'll play the format I like and be damned if they get my money for standard and limited. Just be aware that Legacy will die as a result of this, assuming the 3x multiplier doesn't change and that Legacy is never legalized for FNM or given an equivalent means to produce mass points. I intend to be selling off a lot of my Legacy staples in Atlanta. Because they're going to drop. All of them. Count on it.

2. There's no reward for being absolutely amazing at magic. A grinder with no life who averages 2-2 or 3-1 on most events will totally blow away an incredible player who has a job and a family and can only play once or twice a week, but crushes the grinder every time they're paired up. I can name four people who have never one time defeated me in a match who are at least 5+ levels higher than me now. And I imagine there's plenty of players who are quite better than me who are feeling largely the same way right now.

And yes, I won't deny a personal bias in all this. Eternal rating aside, before this happened? My Total rating (13th in the world) was enough to get me free invitations to the pro tour. Now this won't happen, because I'll never have the time, money, or drive to spend my entire life playing magic. This is a potentially life-changing blow to me. What if, by some incredible fluke, I managed to go and finish in the money at a pro tour? (I acknowledge I'd probably be the worst player at the event, but still, just speculating.) 4-5 digits of money is life changing for someone who scrapes to get by. Now I never have and never will. My win-loss ratio doesn't matter anymore, and people like me, who if they were millionaires and didn't have other things in life to occupy them might could at least dream of being a lower end occasional PT hack, get the shaft. Because being good doesn't matter anymore.


I feel sorry for you... really, as much as I feel sry for Legacy and for friends of mine who think quitting Legacy because of that shit...
But in the end we can't change the things that WotC do...
You can at least play in San Francisco and play 1 Pro Tour there, if you manage to get there. =)


Other than that, back to the discussion:
No, my point was that WotC [sadly] can do what they want with MtG. If they see the money in it, and enough players who would spent the money for that kinda stuff, it's good for them. [not good for us, but will they care when they just see $.$ ?

Yeah, Eternal-formats will suffer under it. But what if WotC doesn't care about? They have their new money-machine called Modern, which has the awesome philosophy of "we will reprint stuff, if you need it" which also leads to money. Don't get me wrong, I hate it that Legacy will suffer, and I hate it that WotC sees the big "money-machine" in MtG the last few month, but what can we change?

The limited / constructed market will always be more fertile from a economical point of view than the eternal market.

Well... being good matters somehow... Sure, you need to play stupid FNMs often now, to get that stupid invitations and shit... But what if you are playing crappy there all day long, and just get invited because you spend every hour in playing scrubby [but sanctioned] Magic? You are there... ...and then? Get totally blown out because you are actually "not good".

So yes... it sucks for players who haven't enough time for MtG, and yes it sucks for Eternal formats, but you still need to be good somehow.

I am not rich or anything like that [not even nearly] and I like MtG very much, because it's the hobbie where I spent the most time with, but what can we change? Nothing... So why complain how shitty WotC is and anything... no one forces us to play MtG.

Oh, and btw, when did WotC gave a shit on Eternal anyways?


EDIT: Modern was created, and all were like: "Boomer, this will kill Legacy", the counterargument was: "No, it won't, people will just keep on plying whats the most fun." So, if Legacy is the most fun for you, keep on playing it, and don't give a fuck about PW-points, as you already do with Modern...

[citanul]

As a reply to a previous post: The system is wrong in it's ranking of players. Playing mroe does not equal being better.

Concerning the business aspect. I don't believe that this will benefit M:tG in the long term. FNM will have more attendance in the short term. Qualifying for a PT on rating is insanely hard and won't be for the regular FNM'er. So what else can they gain out of this? There's also the bye's they get at a GP, great! A GP used to give PT invites to the top16 players but the new system doesn't do this anymore. So people who play FNM, switching over to do more GP's might do good but only a handful will qualify for anything at all.

So they soon hit their maximum, they realise that spending money and time every week isn't actually getting them somewhere. They'll continue playing FNM but when they want to and solemn for their own enjoyment. Attendance will drop once again due to this. In the end, the attendance at FNM's won't be elevated by a lot if anything. In exchange, the attendance for GP's will drop.

I'll elaborate about the GP a bit. The EV for a GP is really low. 1500 players or more competing for the grand prize. But only top64 gets a prize. Out of 1500 players that's less than 4,3%. The total of attendance fee compared to the total of prize payout distributed over the average player means that on average people will be losing money. Someone calculated this on SCG not so long ago but I can't find the article at the moment. An event such as a SCG Open has a better EV and will steal a lot of players from GP's. Why would you play a GP if there's no extra benefit than just winning money and Pro Points which don't help you unless you have succes in multiple GP's. The only other benefit is Planeswalker Points but again, very few will benefit from this.

So in conclusion for me: Attendance in FNM will rise for a while but won't be sustained at the cost of attendance of GP's. Pro Tours will seem more elusive to want-to-be Pro's and the common interest in the Pro Circuit will decline. It's a good business move in the short term but not so good in the long term.

[Gui]

I'm totally parachute jumping here cuz I didn't read everything, but, what's the difference in reward to who win and who lose?

I mean, say that if you lose a 2/3 you get one point, how much do you get if you tie or win?

[majikal]

There's a rumor floating around that they may have also done away with the pro players club. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

[KevinTrudeau]

There's a rumor floating around that they may have also done away with the pro players club. Has anyone else heard anything about this?

Organized Play Programs Manager Scott Larabee basically said that there's going to be an overhaul of it in a recent interview with BDM; nothing about it actually going away:


BDM: Do these changes affect the Pro Players Club?

Scott: The Pro Club will be going through a transition in 2012 as we develop a broader system to address many of the benefits provided by the current Pro Club. To ensure that players are taken care of during this adjustment period, we will be honoring all travel, invitations, and appearance fee benefits at 2012 Pro Tour events based on a player's level at the end of the 2011 Pro season. We plan on holding the same number of Pro Tour-style events in 2012 as we did in 2011. High-level pros who are involved in our Pro Tour Players Club now will get a chance to become immersed in our new system as they play throughout 2012 with their hard-earned benefits from 2011.

[CorpT]

I'm totally parachute jumping here cuz I didn't read everything, but, what's the difference in reward to who win and who lose?

I mean, say that if you lose a 2/3 you get one point, how much do you get if you tie or win?

You should try reading first.

(3 for a win
1 for a draw
0 for a loss
+ Participation Points)
x Event Multiplier

[KevinTrudeau]

Just to clarify, in all competitive events, it's:

(3*number of wins+number of draws+participation points)*event multiplier+bonus points


Number of Participants-----Participation Points
8-15:-------------------------------------------1
16-31:------------------------------------------2
32-63:------------------------------------------3
64-127:-----------------------------------------4
128-255:----------------------------------------5
256-511:----------------------------------------6
512-1023:--------------------------------------7
1024-2047:-------------------------------------8
2048+:------------------------------------------9

Event multipliers:
1x: Sanctioned Magic tournaments, Prerelease events, Launch Parties
2x: Game day events, WPN Premium Qualifiers
3x: Friday Night Magic, Grand Prix Trials, WPN Premium Tournaments
5x: Pro Tour Qualifiers, National Qualifiers
8x: Grand Prix, National Championships
12x: Pro Tour *, World Championship

Certain special events and public tournaments at certain larger events may qualify for higher event multipliers. See the tournament fact sheets for the specific multipliers for those tournaments.

* Pro Tour competitors who finish in the top eight players receive an extra bonus.

Bonus Points

We'll periodically be offering special bonus point opportunities to help you level up faster! Make sure to check out the "Notifications" tab after logging in to stay on top of the current bonus point opportunities.


Their policy concerning casual events:


What is a sanctioned event?

Any event that is scheduled by a tournament organizer and whose results are reported to Wizards of the Coast is a sanctioned event.

There are two types of sanctioned events: casual, which includes any events where match results aren't recorded, multiplayer events, and events with fewer than eight players, and competitive, where the results of each round are recorded.

Play in a casual event and you earn at least 1 point. Only your participation counts in casual events and you receive a fixed number of points when you participate. Points from casual events are listed as bonus points in your match history. For even greater numbers of points, Competitive events are where it's at!

[dragonwisdom]

I am not sure if I should create a new thread for this but it is related to planeswalker points.

Everyone keeps asking "what can we do". First we should all contact wizards of the coast and ask them

1) to make Legacy a sanctioned and supported format for FNM.

2) For heaven's sake stop printing over-powered blue cards. And print a good red card for once.

3) They need to support the players that have built their game, players that teach younger players, give out free cards etc .... They need to support legacy. It feels like WotC is trying to kill legacy.

If they get enough complaints/information from older players, I trust that they will listen.

Email: Click the Ask a Question tab in the upper left corner of this page. This Knowledge Base system will help you send us the information we need to answer your question or address your issues.

Phone: We're available Monday through Friday, from 9 am to 6 pm Pacific Time, and also on weekends from 10 am to 4 pm Pacific Time:
US/Canada: (800) 324-6496
Other countries: 001 (425) 204-8069

Regular Mail: You can also send us a letter, although it does take a little longer for us to reply. Here's our address:
Wizards of the Coast
ATTN: Game Support
P.O. Box 707
Renton, WA 98057-0707

[TeenieBopper]

Hate to break it to you, but Wizards doesn't care about Legacy. Legacy makes them almost zero money.

[dragonwisdom]

Hate to break it to you, but Wizards doesn't care about Legacy. Legacy makes them almost zero money.


No not directly, But the true magic players are the ones that supported the game from it's infancy until today. Magic would NOT have survived if not for legacy players. Once wizards disregards it's most loyal customers the game will fall apart. This I guarantee.


This is just like voting. If you don't call or write an email to wizards, then you have nothing to complain about when they dump on the format you care about.

[TeenieBopper]

Wizards' most loyal customers aren't the ones who play Magic the most, it's the ones who buy the most product.

Look, being a legacy player doesn't make you a unique little snowflake. It makes you a legacy player, and Wizards doesn't owe you shit.

[Artowis]

No not directly, But the true magic players are the ones that supported the game from it's infancy until today.

Hint: The bolded doesn't mean anything except in your mind. You are making an arbitrary distinction with no bearing on reality or WOTC's actual decision-making process.

[KevinTrudeau]

Thought this was pretty interesting, and noteworthy enough to revive this thread—an open letter written with the intent to make WotC consider changing the Planeswalker Points system, backed by five of the greatest to ever play (Zvi, Maher, Finkel, Budde, LSV):

http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/an-open-letter-regarding-planeswalker-points/

[caiomarcos]

So I went my way to read a little about Elo ratings on wikipedia and found out that many modifications could've been made instead of this major PWP overhaul.

While reading, I found this amusing:
"Outside the chess world, concerns over players avoiding competitive play to protect their ratings, often referred to as 'sitting on rating', are the main reason Wizards of the Coast has given for abandoning the Elo system for Magic: the Gathering tournaments in favour of a system of their own devising called 'Planeswalker Points'."

How dumb does "planeswalker points" sound?

[dahcmai]

Not as dumb as telling people about your rating now.

"I'm going from Battlemage to Archmage this month!"


yup, super geek status obtained.