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egosum
09-20-2011, 10:18 AM
Well this is just initial brainstorming about what we can make with the new super exciting bomb: Past in Flames.

"PiT"

Main deck 60

Cantrip 10

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain

Fast Mana/Mana fixers 16

4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond

Protection Suite 7

4x Duress
3x Thoughtseize

Tutoring 8

4x Burning Wish
4x Intuition

Bombs 3

3x Past in Flames

Win Cons 2

1x Emtpy the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony

Mana (lands) 14

1x Badlands
2x Underground Sea
2x Volcanic Island
2x Polluted Delta
2x Bloodstained Mire
2x Scalding Tarn
3x Ancient Tomb

Siedeboard 15

3x Pyroblast
3x Chain of Vapor
2x Wipe Away/Extirpate
1x Thoughtseize
1x Meltdown
1x Pyroclasm
1x "New Blue Sorcery that Unsummons with Flashback"
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Past in Flames

As this is an initial draft I expect the list can become something very different in its optimal version, but I think is, at least, an starting point.

Some card choices explanations:

-See that most of cards are chosen because they are instant. This is very intentional to make the deck more resilient to grave hate, it maybe irrelevant, we'll see it during the testing, but theoretically it will work better with instants than with sorceries (imagine the situation with Tormod/Relic/Nihil in game, you can start the turn by playing "Pif", Past in Flames, the you can start playing rituals pretty safe just because if they activate the hate artifact you can respond with the flashback and you won't lose your bussiness, this is also the reason of playing 3 chain of vapors, so you can play intuition in response and get rid of any hate in table just before the "remove your graveyard" resolves). So you can see Cabal Rituals instead of Rite of Flames for this reason basically, but also because thy are very sinergic with Intuition, which I think can be the real engine of the deck.

-I'm not sure of those 2x Prerodain. I 've thought in replacing them with Manamorphose, is an isntant that can fix colors and work nice under Past in Flames, but they seem suboptimal at first glance.

-I'm not sure also of playing EtW/ToA in the main deck, maybe only a single tendrils will be enough for closing the game, and meybe it is not needed. But I decided to keep them in to gain resiliance to Extirpate effects (which may hurt us badly). EtW maindeck seems very underwhelming withouth Infernal Tutor in the list, but I'm not sure if we should cut it (again I think we should test it, then decide).

-I dont' really like the mana base, it looks very fragile but I think that this is what the deck needs (not the fragility but playing the tombs is very interezting if we play intuition, for example...). What do you think?

-In the sideboard I dont' know if Wipe Away if better than Extirpate, both are nice against Cb/Top (which I think will come back) and reanimator. Wipe Away being stronger against the former and extirpate against the latter (let's see how the metagame fixes and then decide).

Well this are more or less my initial thoughts. What do you think?

Greetings,

Iņaki.-

tsabo_tavoc
09-20-2011, 10:29 AM
-See that most of cards are chosen because they are instant. This is very intentional to make the deck more resilient to grave hate, it maybe irrelevant, we'll see it during the testing, but theoretically it will work better with instants than with sorceries (imagine the situation with Tormod/Relic/Nihil in game, you can start the turn by playing "Pif", Past in Flames, the you can start playing rituals pretty safe just because if they activate the hate artifact you can respond with the flashback and you won't lose your bussiness, this is also the reason of playing 3 chain of vapors, so you can play intuition in response and get rid of any hate in table just before the "remove your graveyard" resolves). So you can see Cabal Rituals instead of Rite of Flames for this reason basically, but also because thy are very sinergic with Intuition, which I think can be the real engine of the deck.

Past in Flames does not work on cards put into graveyard after it resolves. Therefore, another Storm engine is a better way to fight graveyard hates.

egosum
09-20-2011, 10:32 AM
If it is this way I completely misread the card and need to give a complete different approach. Thanks for the note.

Greetings,

Iņaki.-

Koby
09-20-2011, 10:52 AM
I was examining Manamorphose when I fleshed out the list over in the ANT thread - it's purpose is entirely identical to Gitaxian Probe - generating Storm and being effectively 0 mana cost. I like that it can fix :b::r: mana to :u: to continue chaining Cantrips, but I'm not sure if it's needed at that point other than Infernal Tutor/Burning Wish to just win outright.

I figure at the point where you're chaining Cantrips is just to show boat, considering the amount of spells that could be cast.

I'm dubious of the Intuition aside from setting up the fundamental turn. 3 Mana is a bit rough, and as others have mentioned doesn't interact favorably with Past in Flames. Impulse or Peer Through Depths might be a better fit, as would simply Personal Tutor.

Dark Ritual
09-20-2011, 11:48 AM
No infernal tutor in the MD or SB? This seems like the most glaring omission from your list; at least have one as a wish target and put some in the MD. Love the LED interaction and burning wish + PiF has dissynergy since wish exiles itself while infernal just continues the chain.

I like intuition in theory but in practice I'm not sure if it's good enough. Testing will tell whether this card is the stone cold nuts with PiF because it is essentially an a. call if you PiF afterwards getting all 3 cards back especially if they're all dark/cabal rit's. Also serves as a tutor for tendrils but so does infernal tutor.

And I sometimes find that when playing PiF I wish it were IGG. Sometimes it's nice to be able to get back 2x LED and IT FTW without having to dabble around casting cantrips from the yard.

Another card to consider would be gitaxian probe. It's a free cantrip that gives information and interacts nicely with PiF.

Benie Bederios
09-20-2011, 12:06 PM
Yeah the lack of Infernal Tutor seems strange for me too. Especially if you can go: Ritual, Ritual, LED, Hellbent Infernal Tutor(Past in Flame), Past in Flame, Flashback Ritual, Flashback Ritual, Flashback Infernal Tutor, Tendrils of Agony.

I was wondering with Past in Flame, if you could use Gifts Ungiven. The deck can be quite some slower, because you don't recycle your opponents counters and you don't need alot of life to go off. With Gifts Ungiven you could make some very nasty stacks for your opponent.

An End of turn Gifts Ungiven into Seething Song, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual and Past in Flame could be very nasty. If the opponent gives you Dark Ritual and Past in Flame. You can make at least 5 storm and quite some mana. If you have some rituals in hand, you could go for Burning Wish, Infernal Tutor, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual. The tutors can get Past in Flame and you can easily kill from there.

.Benie.

P-E
09-20-2011, 12:41 PM
no gamble ?
with active PiF it's almost a good tutor ^^

rufus
09-20-2011, 01:03 PM
An End of turn Gifts Ungiven into Seething Song, Dark Ritual, Cabal Ritual and Past in Flame could be very nasty. If the opponent gives you Dark Ritual and Past in Flame....

As long as you have 4 mana sources - with at least one of B U and R - in play and threshold, you can just flashback the rituals into gifts into Past in Flame, Cabal Ritual, Dark Ritual, Tendrils of Agony for the win. Though I wonder how easy it is to get those four mana sources on the table.

r0ckstAr
09-20-2011, 01:20 PM
I really don't think past in flames should be the way to build a slower storm deck. If anything, it should allow us to use Duress/Thoughtseize to our advantage, avoiding the randomness of AdN and DR, and avoiding to give the opponent his Force back with IGG.

Black and Red are the obvious 2 colors, and blue for brainstorm and maybe Ponder as digging #5-8.
Gitaxian Probe (information and +1card when you get PiF active) and Gamble seem like nice additions too (with PiF the decks gains redundancy and Gamble will likely not make you lose).

PiF is no YawgWin, but I think only a BR/u shell can successfully abuse it.

ThomasDowd
09-20-2011, 01:42 PM
I really don't think past in flames should be the way to build a slower storm deck. If anything, it should allow us to use Duress/Thoughtseize to our advantage, avoiding the randomness of AdN and DR, and avoiding to give the opponent his Force back with IGG.

Black and Red are the obvious 2 colors, and blue for brainstorm and maybe Ponder as digging #5-8.
Gitaxian Probe (information and +1card when you get PiF active) and Gamble seem like nice additions too (with PiF the decks gains redundancy and Gamble will likely not make you lose).

PiF is no YawgWin, but I think only a BR/u shell can successfully abuse it.

i've eschewed the blue in my rough drafts, they aren't very good yet. also I had a hard time getting hellbent without LED's in my rough draft as well. Will be working on this mainly as B/R(wish, I tutor, maybe grim's?, definitely forgot about gamble).

also without the blue you NEED to have a large tutor package in order to go off/ kill them since you just want redundant business, and burning wish kind of sucks since it exiles itself, but it's so good in general I think it is necessary.

P-E
09-20-2011, 02:36 PM
i think wish is still needed to find missing combo piece or solution for gaddock etc

just thought about entomb as a tutor with PiF active ^^
what do you think of it ?

fallenphoenix
09-20-2011, 04:39 PM
Entomb and Gamble may seem sweet, but they only work half as decent as you might expect.
When you flash them back you don't get to cast the card you just put into your grave until you cast another PiF (or flashback your first one), which costs a lot of mana. Often you won't be able to do that, so something like Intuition or Infernal, which put the cards in your hand, are the way to go imho.

I could see U/B/r or straight U/R work out. You do have to choose between red and black rituals and stick with one kind, though, mixing red and black ones is asking for trouble.
As for B/R, no cantrips make you soooo much weaker against disruption, I don't think it's worth it.

Interestingly enough, LED has been disappointing for me in a straight PiF-list.

Smea.gol.lum
09-20-2011, 05:26 PM
If you go for a straight PiF list, which is graveyard-dependant, you can add Brain Freeze as well.
I haven't tested it yet, but in theory it's insane, as it acts as a tutor pre- and post- PiF and as a win-con.
I think Manamorphose is also worth a try, although it makes mulligan decision very difficult especially if you also play the Probes.
If you play Summoner's Pact(tutoring for ESG) it helps you to go off without mana floating, but I don't if it's too mich all-in and functions reliably.
Just some ideas which need to be tested... ;)

GexxX
09-20-2011, 07:31 PM
I also like the Idea of Gift's Ungiven, because it can be fueled with rituals in the early game state and tutor up PiF to reuse it. The main Problem of this scenario then again seems the cost for PiF. Also the additional splash for blue will make your mana base less stable. Since MM is now banned I predict more Counterbalances and also more wastelands to fight those decks. Might not seem like the Ideal plan, but it still is facinating.

So what about a whole different approach? Like making a Ritual fueled Gift's Control Shell with a Combo kill? I need to look it up, but I've seen a Vintage Gift's list that packed Rituals instead of Drains and the Pilot said it performed incredible. I also attended the tournament and we were heading home together that's why I remember. The guy was also not some random idiot, but very well known in Southern Germany for his skills in both Deck design and playing.

3rd Place here (http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=516).

The Main problem is that you can't really make piles that say: I win - no matter what you do. Instead you can make piles that say: I will have something really good. Deal with it or you're most likely going to die.

Right now I might be to close to that theory that it seems good and in reality it isn't, but I still wanted to share the list and thoughts in case someone here can build a viable Deck with it.

Have fun ;)

EDIT: I just noticed that playing a bunch of spells and an empty or a Tendrils (nonlethal) as the end of the line might be a viable strategy when you abandon LED's + Infernal Tutor but bring in Force + Misdirection. It's not a win like this, but it can buy you time to make it a win. I don't know, but I'd love to play FoW in storm...

Koby
09-20-2011, 08:06 PM
Under the assumption that playing P.i.F. with countermagic, I suspect that Spell Pierce would be an incredible to add to the protection suite.

The problem remains that doing so would force the deck heavier into :u::r:, where the more disruptive spells are in :b:.

Perhaps the deck could utilize Gitaxian Probe andManamorphose, and eschew the need for Brainstorm and Ponder.

ThomasDowd
09-21-2011, 03:47 AM
Entomb and Gamble may seem sweet, but they only work half as decent as you might expect.
When you flash them back you don't get to cast the card you just put into your grave until you cast another PiF (or flashback your first one), which costs a lot of mana. Often you won't be able to do that, so something like Intuition or Infernal, which put the cards in your hand, are the way to go imho.

I could see U/B/r or straight U/R work out. You do have to choose between red and black rituals and stick with one kind, though, mixing red and black ones is asking for trouble.
As for B/R, no cantrips make you soooo much weaker against disruption, I don't think it's worth it.

Interestingly enough, LED has been disappointing for me in a straight PiF-list.

i mean gamble is a one mana tutor with the chance you might pitch something relevant, if you gamble for PiF and discard something other than it, it's a non issue, since it will gain flashback, if you pitch PiF, ok now you need +1 mana, which is sometimes back breaking but with the density of rituals you are playing with should be a non issue. I haven;t tested it out yet but in theory it seems very strong since the downside it had before of losing a random spell from your hand to the yard forever is pretty much nuked when you get to flashback your entire graveyard

also how has mixing rituals been a problem? which ones are you playing of each variety? mana is mana, if you are on two colors your rituals are like heaven since the most mana intense spell in the deck is tendrils of agony at BB, everything else pretty much gets going for a single red or a single black. like i feel like the +3 mana from LED is just so insane that you almost can't not play it, it turns on your infernal tutors and adds 3 mana.

regardless, the idea needs to be thought out and worked on. i have a crappy shell that i need to work on and will eventually post something that i feel is not god awful and decent, and at the same time:

is this just a worse something else?

graveyard hate (leyline/wheel mainly, since all the artifacts can be hit via burning wish targets) hits you slightly stronger than other storm decks, or at least slows you down and then you have to tutor chain.

also is it fast enough? like TES/ANT is turn 3-4 on average if you just go for it, if not Turn 1

lot's of questions.

I don't know will be messing around in my spare time if it's just a worse something else, then just going to jam this bad boy in TNT and call it a day, maybe.

ThomasDowd
09-21-2011, 03:53 AM
Under the assumption that playing P.i.F. with countermagic, I suspect that Spell Pierce would be an incredible to add to the protection suite.

The problem remains that doing so would force the deck heavier into :u::r:, where the more disruptive spells are in :b:.



why when you have pretty much the best counterspell in a counter war in the blast effects?

sure i guess you could counter green sun's zeniths or other non blue cards but you should probably punish those decks unless they find and stick a teeg/ cannonist/ hatebear. at least that's what the kids say about storm these days (non blue matches = bye, blue matches = thinking time) but what do i know?

and spell piercing turn one discard spells, yeah, ok, that happens i guess, sometimes



Perhaps the deck could utilize Gitaxian Probe andManamorphose, and eschew the need for Brainstorm and Ponder.

no where near in the same league as those two cards, don't kid yourself, selection versus draw are two incredibly different things and one is significantly more powerful than the other.

TheG
09-21-2011, 04:13 AM
Hi guys i thought a BR list that resembles somehow Spanish Inquisition (all in combo deck, i mean) check this out.

//Manabase 8- unfortunately we cant run Land Grant as SI does so the answer is more lands..however 8 is minimum that the deck can afford ImHo to have t1/t2 landrop and...go off.

4 [A] Badlands
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Artifact acceleration 12 - Despite artifacts don't gains flashback they are the best starters the deck could use. Interesting sinergy of Past in Flames with Led+Infernal..we could don't care of trashing our hand (thx Flames) re-playing things from graveyard, so Leds become like Black Lotuses.

4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond

// :b: Acceleration 8 - Flashback & ******** desen't interact very well but smart player can doge that.

4 [US] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual

// :r: Acceleration 12 / Manafix 4 - Manamorphose is indispensable for this deck having the possibility of change :b::r: from :r::r: (that's easyer to have) activating black accelerators. I was thinking to split/change Desperate Ritual to Seething Song that have a better CMC/Mana rateo.

4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [CHK] Desperate Ritual

4 [SHM] Manamorphose

// Tutor 8 - As i said Infernal with PiF is like a Demonic and the deck burns his hand really fast so, isn't uncommon to play it like a demonic from hand without Leds. Wish tutors for closures, Past in Flames, Rite of Flame, so why not?

4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor

// Engine 3 / Closure 2 - Obv things. +1 of all in SB for wishes.

3 [INS] Past in Flames
1 [FNM] Tendrils of Agony
1 [TS] Empty the Warrens

// Card Advantage 3 - Like SI does, deck need some CA simply 'cose the starting hand isn't always perfect to win. i have some alternatives with those base concepts: splashability - low CMC - lot of card draw - reusability - Wishability (sorcery spells). As you already understood we can't use SI drawers like Infernal Contract that would be perfect if it didn't cost :b::b::b:. Black alternatves to Contract are: Pain's reward Ancient Craving Night's Whisper and everyone has some pros/cons. Pain isn't not reusable 'cose our op could force us to spend 17 life to draw 4 and if we flashback it would be totally uneffective. Craving has low CMC/Draw rateo. Wishper is reusable, good rateo, splashable, low CMC but doesn't dig very much. Red alternatives play with the Flashback engine to avoid discard drawback: Burning Inquiry, Control of the Court /Goblin Lore and last but not the least Gamble. The problem is that PiF doesn't give flashback to cards played after it, so we need to generate more 5 mana to flashback PiF and take complete advantage of cc2 +4ca like goblin lore.

Moreover i really like Gift Ungiven (also if isn't wishable) that's tutor+ CA, but doesn't fits well in a straight :b::r: shell...Some thoughts about splashing?

I hope i bring something fresh to the discussion, thx for reading.

P-E
09-21-2011, 10:25 AM
no slots for gitaxian probe ?
free draw and look at opponnent's hand is nice also with PiF it's stronger ^^

i thought of burning inquiry too , i think it has to be tested

rnightingale
09-21-2011, 08:17 PM
I don't think that this is a NEW deck.. this is just a TES with Past In Flames..

TheG
09-21-2011, 08:33 PM
guys i've came up with the definitive (imho ;D) strategy for this deck: Burn/Combo

If you think, Bolts acts like a storm counter for tendrill also if aren't played the same turn of tendrill. this "intiution" can fix the instability problem of a pure combo deck like Bleacher or Spanish Inquisition or the one that i posted this afternoon. Moreover Minitendrill strategy keeps ourself in play and open an easy clousure with 1-2 Bolts, unlike the others combo decks.

So the deck would have 4 ways to win

Straight Burn&Draw
Burn&Acce. + Past in Flames
Acceleration + Mini Tendrills
Straight (Burn/Acc./PiF/Draw) Lethal Tendrill

That's an issue for Control also if we don't play counterspells/Discard.

Here a "on the fly" List to discuss.

// Lands 13
4 [JGC] Bloodstained Mire
4 [DIS] Blood Crypt
4 [B] Badlands
1 [ROE] Swamp

// Mana Artifacts 4
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond

// Accellerators 15
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual

4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [ARC] Seething Song

// Burn 10
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
4 [PD2] Chain Lightning
2 [INS] Bump in the Night

// Tutor 8
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish

// Draw 7
4 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
3 [6E] Infernal Contract

// Closures
2 [INS] Past in Flames
1 [FNM] Tendrils of Agony

// Whislist
SB: 1 [INS] Past in Flames
SB: 1 [FNM] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [6E] Infernal Contract
SB: 1 [INS] Bump in the Night

P-E
09-22-2011, 01:43 AM
as you want to burn why no grapeshot ? could be a cheap 2cmc for 6 damages ^^

TheG
09-22-2011, 04:00 AM
as you want to burn why no grapeshot ? could be a cheap 2cmc for 6 damages ^^

i really don't like grapeshot.. it cost 1/2 of Tendrill but it deals 1/2 damage of tendrill without lifegain... and whe i'm going off with storm count i usually don't have mana problems to cast cmc4 tendrill. however, good call. i'll test like a backuplan wish>grapeshot if i dont'have enough mana.

ThomasDowd
09-23-2011, 03:17 AM
this is what I have been goldfishing, it's still too slow, the draw effects are not nearly as good as the selection effects. the 4 duress, 1 thoughtseize, 3 manamorphose is where i am having the hardest time deciding about the 8 the rest seems important enough not to cut.( 16 rituals, 8 tutors, minimum of 8 free cycle effects, 18 land, 2-3 business spells) could probably use more tutors or draw since you have no selection and you really want business. The fetchlands are purely for thinning, as bad as that sounds, but you need every percentage point, however small. sideboard could use work. that i feel is a decent wish package, naturally you can play blasts as well (i'd suggest a minimum of 6) maybe defense grid(is this even relevant anymore?) or something to stop CB/top since it just rapes you(bayou + reverent silence?, doomsday?, null rod?) all those ideas kind of make me want to vomit but whatever.

still don't think its good enough, bob may be too slow but he typically gains you some life, draws you some cards and reduces storm count if he connects, may be better as night's whisper or another draw spell


4 Dark Confidant

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Rite of Flame

4 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Manamorphose

4 Burning Wish
4 Infernal Tutor

1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony


3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs


sideboard:
9 ?

1 Grapeshot
1 Infernal Contract
1 Past in Flames
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Shattering Spree
1 Tendrils of Agony

Fatal
09-24-2011, 01:24 PM
You should look at that list:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22178-INN-Flame-on!&p=589427&viewfull=1#post589427

TheG
09-24-2011, 06:12 PM
New list without burn section.
I saw that when the deck start comboing makes 10 and more spell easily so, out bolts for more costistency. And Overmaster as protection for key spells (it draws...otherwise i would prefer duress).

// Lands 6
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [A] Badlands

// Starters 8
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [TE] Lotus Petal

// Accelerators 12
4 [MM] Dark Ritual
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual

4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [ARC] Seething Song

// Mana Fix&Combo 8
4 [SHM] Manamorphose
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond

// Protection&Cycle 8
4 [NPH] Gitaxian Probe
4 [TO] Overmaster

// Tutor 7
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish

// Engine 6
3 [PT] Cruel Bargain
3 [INN] Past in Flames

// Closure 1
1 [FNM] Tendrils of Agony

//Wish Sideboard
1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
1 [FNM] Tendrils of Agony
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
1 [SOK]Pain's Reward
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [TSP] Grapeshot

Play istructions: keep starting hand with 1 tutor/draw4 , 2 acceleration, 1land, 1 starter (or any combination of 2 with starters/lands)...and simply go off on turn 1-2 or 3. when u're ready.

j_rb
09-26-2011, 07:50 PM
what about something like this for pif? Helm is amazing with meditate and the rituals requiring colorless to cast. It's cool with manamorphose as it nets mana. I've hit large ass storm counts with this deck. Helm just seems absurd if it resolves.

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Meditate
4 Ponder
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish
3 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Grapeshot
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Defense Grid
1 Deathmark
1 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Shattering Spree
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens

thefringthing
09-26-2011, 08:57 PM
The most recently posted list is the first in the thread which strikes me as at all reasonable.

andrewlb
09-26-2011, 09:12 PM
The list without brainstorm? -.-

thefringthing
09-26-2011, 11:33 PM
The list without brainstorm? -.-Yes. I'm willing to entertain the notion that a good storm deck without Brainstorm is possible. Then again, maybe I just want to break out my Helms of Awakening.

DireLemming
09-27-2011, 05:47 AM
Any list with Helm should definitely include Top as an additional [infinite] storm engine. That, and maybe some Sol-lands.

j_rb
10-03-2011, 12:54 AM
I couldn't find room for Brainstorm in the above list, but in the last tourney I played in I went 5-0 and lost in top4 to TES with this list with brainstorm. The lack of duress didn't hurt the deck because past just lets you play through forces and soft counters due to the absurd amount of mana this deck can make. Also, Defense Grid is a house.

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Meditate
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish
3 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

1 Underground Sea
2 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard
2 Grapeshot
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Defense Grid
1 Deathmark
1 Thoughtseize
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Shattering Spree
1 Infest
1 Echoing Truth
1 Empty the Warrens

I like the idea of adding a couple tops... 2 sounds like the right number to me but I need to test them.

Koby
10-03-2011, 01:15 AM
O.... Nausea (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?2640-Deck-Nausea-Tendrils-for-the-win.)... How I've missed you...

br14n^lol
03-02-2012, 03:25 AM
I accually made the deck J_rb is talking about. It was based off of Nausea.

J_rbs list is a little different and probably more optimal then my bu/R list. My older
bu/R list had death wish and burning wish in it with one helm on the board and one less PiF.
My current u/R list is way different then J_rbs list but it still works in a similar way.

If your a fan of Nausea from 2005-06 try J_rbs list out. Its just as good if not better then my list.

This is by far my favorite storm deck. If helm resolves, which it usually does, you can combat counters easily. I've beaten u/w stone-blade and bug still pretty consistently with this type of storm deck and aggro is an easy MU. u/R delver is similar to the stone-blade match but a little harder depending on the delver list.

u/R Helm- The one tendrils on board is easy to cast due to manamorphose and chromatic star.

3 Chromatic Star
4 Seething Song
4 Helm of Awakening
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Meditate
4 Rite of Flame
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Manamorphose
4 Burning Wish
3 Past in Flames
3 Empty the Warrens
2 Grapeshot

4 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard
2 Grapeshot
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Defense Grid
1 Shattering Spree
1 Diminishing Returns
2 Rushing River
1 Empty the Warrens
3 Sudden Shock

Ponder not being in this deck seems weird but manamorphose, star, and probe are all great cantrips. If I could I would run Ponder over brainstorm but being able to hide cards from discard is important.