[Article] Dating and Magic

[Esper3k]

Darwin Kastle writes about how to approach dating with our particular... hobby... (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/dating-and-magic/)

A hilarious read from MTGLampoon on the above article. (http://mtglampoon.com/2011/09/26/dating-and-magic/)

[Nihil Credo]

Probably relevant context (http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/04/18/interview-with-rada/).

edit: oh for fuck's sake WARNING EVERYONE THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN 1.26789351 CM² OF FEMALE SKIN SHOWING, YOUR BOSS MAY BE OK WITH YOU READING ABOUT A CARD GAME BUT HE'LL TOTALLY FIRE YOU FOR THIS

[Admiral_Arzar]

Darwin Kastle writes about how to approach dating with our particular... hobby... (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/dating-and-magic/)

A hilarious read from MTGLampoon on the above article. (http://mtglampoon.com/2011/09/26/dating-and-magic/)

I lol'd. A lot. Especially at the second one.


Probably relevant context (http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/04/18/interview-with-rada/).

I'm not sure what my boss would have said if I had opened that while he was walking by. A little sexy for the workplace...

[Vacrix]

"Yo baby I saw your beautiful Lion's Eye Diamonds and I just had to ask... Can I Empty your Warrens?"

[Admiral_Arzar]

edit: Oh for fuck's sake warning everyone there might be more than 1.26789351 cm² of female skin showing, your boss may be ok with you reading about a card game but he'll totally fire you for this

hahahahahaha

[GGoober]

My window size was fairly small when I opened the picture, but when I saw skin up to the neckline and a hot face, I decided to bomb my PC before my boss can discover that I'm surfing for NSFW content.

[atropos]

These were great articles. Definitely chosen Magic over girl before. I mean I've had a long and happy relationship with the game that goes back to '95, what can I say?

[trivial_matters]

I saw a girl at a draft once. Beat that.

She was dressed nothing like the lady Nihil Credo linked to, sadly.

[NyxathidHorror]

Darwin Kastle writes about how to approach dating with our particular... hobby... (http://www.gatheringmagic.com/dating-and-magic/)

Apparently I've been looking for women in the wrong place...haha!

These articles are great!

[Sims]

Probably relevant context (http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/04/18/interview-with-rada/).

edit: oh for fuck's sake WARNING EVERYONE THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN 1.26789351 CM² OF FEMALE SKIN SHOWING, YOUR BOSS MAY BE OK WITH YOU READING ABOUT A CARD GAME BUT HE'LL TOTALLY FIRE YOU FOR THIS

For the record, having seen those pictures on her Facebook, you actually can see labia between those magic cards in some pics. So the NSFW tag would have been relevant.

[Koby]

This thread needs more "[Chicks] Yep".

[troopatroop]

Dating has NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGIC. Your skills in one WILL NOT RELATE to skills in the other.



Just thought I'd clear that the fuck up.

[coraz86]

Dating has NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGIC. Your skills in one WILL NOT RELATE to skills in the other.



Just thought I'd clear that the fuck up.

Unfortunately, as I could spend days attesting, you are perfectly welcome and able to Mental Misstep IRL.

Force of Will is not an acceptable response when that occurs, either.

[GGoober]

Having the coolest decks and the coolest Magic collection can help, but when it comes to Magic, nothing is sexier than winning, especially winning a lot of money. If you do win an event, invite a girl out to celebrate with you.

Wow fuck, I'm sexy one week and then FUGLY the next. Well, most of the times I'm just not sexy. This article is hilarious.


Present yourself well. This one’s pretty obvious. Many Magic players don’t seem to care about their appearance at tournaments, and that’s great for you. If you dress and groom yourself well, this will be a good way to set you apart from the competition.

Now we know that the nerds who don't stink are the ones who are hunting for MTG chicks.

Article 1 = Guy who thinks he has a huge d*ck and lives in fantasyland.
Article 2 = Guy who knows the truth and is awesome about it.

My favorite: Women who date Magic players
This group is tricky because a lot of times they’ll show up to a Magic tournament and you’ll get caught off guard only to find them attached at the hip to another gamer. Often resentment will build because you can’t understand how “This Girl” is with “This Guy”. I mean . . . he only has 1 bye, what the fuck!

LOL!

[Bignasty197]

Dating has NOTHING TO DO WITH MAGIC. Your skills in one WILL NOT RELATE to skills in the other.



Just thought I'd clear that the fuck up.

I'm not sure.
1. Tapping things at the right time is relevant.
2. When to blow your Force of Will is sometimes a delicate situation.
3. Remembering cumulative upkeep costs is annoying, but usually mandatory.

Maybe some skills do translate.

[Pulp_Fiction]

LOL! This is glorious. My thoughts though ... women don't care as long as ur not ... SUPER into it and making obscure Magic references TOO THEM. But if u play weekly they really don't care at all. However, when you meet a girl u simply don't open with "hey, I play this card game called Magic the Gathering," nor do u even mention it until you have known them a little while.

However, oddly enough, the longer women are around Magic, especially the ones who seemed repulsed at the idea of playing a game "like Pokemon", start asking you to teach them 2 play. I think there was actually a thread about this a LONG time ago. Truly, most don't care, just don't make references to the game around them because ... lets face it, thats why we are on these boards, to talk nerdy :) Give em' time, they will come around. Just by all means keep them away from standard tournaments infested with high school virgins who have never seen a real boob before; that is enough to scare anyone away from anything.

[Esper3k]

Probably relevant context (http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/04/18/interview-with-rada/).

edit: oh for fuck's sake WARNING EVERYONE THERE MIGHT BE MORE THAN 1.26789351 CM² OF FEMALE SKIN SHOWING, YOUR BOSS MAY BE OK WITH YOU READING ABOUT A CARD GAME BUT HE'LL TOTALLY FIRE YOU FOR THIS

Wait, how old is Darwin Kastle?

Found my answer in the comments in the article.

He's 39 and she's 18...

[Admiral_Arzar]

Wait, how old is Darwin Kastle?

Found my answer in the comments in the article.

He's 39 and she's 18...

MAKE EM SAY UGH

NA NA NA NA

In all seriousness, that's pretty creepy/nasty.

[GGoober]

Is it just me or do articles like this just seem completely fucking pointless? It's just another rehash of a story told so many times that at this point we're just playing the horse's rib cage like a goddamned xylophone.

Strip away all the fluff and cliches, and you get:

Nerds who find it hard to date while maintain their hobby because it has a negative stigma in the real-world in general. Said nerd writes an article no different from Cosmopolitan's horrible dating tips, because he was successful in dating a few girls by doing what most people would call - common sense.



Edited the bold part to make it more relevant for this post. I still enjoyed the second article, first one was pretty bullshit because it was actually serious.

[tsabo_tavoc]

The thread is awesome! So awesome that I don't know which verse to quote.

[menace13]

The 2nd article is great.

'I would follow these steps that have been carefully laid out for you by Darwin Kastle:
Be Excellent
What George Carlin said to Bill & Ted applies here as well, women like successful men. Winners give off a different musk than losers, and women respond to that. There’s a reason Team Channelfireball wear the same shirt to every event, it’s not because they’re advertising the site, it’s because Brad Nelson’s BO is like Spanish fly.
Present yourself well
Gym shorts in the winter are not a look that screams “I’m sexy!” Any good that might come from winning a big tournament will get instantly un-done if you’re photographed looking like this (http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs151.snc3/17848_233715592917_174376972917_3335866_7283073_n.jpg).'

[Esper3k]

MAKE EM SAY UGH

NA NA NA NA

In all seriousness, that's pretty creepy/nasty.

Remember, keep it to (Your Age / 2) + 7 and you should be ok.

Also, the Kibler quote was the best.

I am also saddened that the link is broken on the last pic in the Rada article where you can see her... toe...

[Michael Keller]

This stuff is really getting dumb. Like, seriously dumb.

If you don't have any game outside of playing Magic and you can't get find yourself someone because of your own insecurities or rebellious 'flaunting' of your extracurricular hobbies, that's your own fault. Finkel probably decided to go for broke by mentioning he played Magic and was a 'World Champion' and completely dug himself into a hole not realizing that people are actually impressionable in different ways. People just jumped on his bandwagon because he is of 'royalty' in the gaming community, but the fact is none of us know what happened specifically on that date(s) or the mannerisms that were facilitated through the course of time between those two individuals. But people are quick to assume Finkel did nothing wrong on a fundamental level on those dates and dismiss his castigator because of her demeanor in writing. That's agreeable, and while I agree she is guilty on just about every count here, was she really just being "close-minded" in defending her own interests? I mean, she went out with him twice, so obviously she wanted to know more about him aside from the internet's assessment.

The fact is, some people - people who can step up their angle, especially when working one with someone of interest - can make the angle he used actually work. If you're going to use Magic as an angle for 'dating conversation,' do so with ego aside. Not everyone is a gamer or wants to be, and the fact is there are a lot of people out there who believe deep inside themselves that some people they date and find interesting or like very much will automatically accommodate their interests because we live in an 'open society.'

It just isn't that simple.

It makes you wonder, even in 2011, that some people could be so close-minded to people like Magic players in the sense that "all gamers are nerds." But - believe it or not - if you keep yourself clean, maintain a sense of personal style, and just be yourself without trying to impress someone with your Magic accolades or Magic in general (even if it comes up in conversation), you might have a shot at working a date or conversation without breaking down that person's 'walls' that are probably already high as it is. Mentioning Magic on a date could disqualify you immediately unless you are absolutely sure it's right to bring up. I'm simply going off historical theory here; I'm sure by now we're all in agreement that a lot of people out there have a negative perception or connotation associated with Magic players.

I feel my wife is very attractive and I did not mention to her I play(ed) Magic at all until just before we got married, which wound up being a month and a half later (we've been married now for over a year, happy and healthy). She was there - at the event with me - me when I Top 4'ed a Jupiter event last year. My point is, you need to do what is necessary, through trial and error, to make yourself happy. I found who I was looking for and got married very fast, but I realized inside I was making the right choice because it felt right. People said it wouldn't work. People said it would collapse. Sure, most often things like that don't last or happen often. But what matters is how you both feel, whether it's on a date or any other circumstance you experience with someone right off the bat. It really isn't any harder than that, but people make it harder because they probably aren't happy or comfortable with themselves first and foremost, which you need to be if you decide to date and sell yourself to someone else.

Otherwise, people will kick you to the curb - including your interests because they could care less. Sometimes you need to enjoy each other for who you are first before opening up to something (hold back laughter) - as intimate as discussing Magic really can be. I mean, let's face it: anyone who plays this game competitively is passionate about it and it means something to them on a personal level. Magic is unique in how unprecedented a game can touch so many people in so many different ways, that to simply "mention" it out of nowhere can draw spite or criticism on deep, deep levels. That's why we were all upset with what happened to Finkel - not necessarily because of what she wrote, but how she reacted. It's personal, and it means something intimate to us. Finkel brushed it off cool and like the pro he is, but I'd bet it hurt him on a serious level. Internet dating is fine, but it's a method used to side-step traditional ways of meeting people in a refreshing way; once something like what happened to Finkel happens to you, it can be traumatizing.

In a date, you want to make it feel to the other person that what you do is really that interesting and enjoyable without imposing yourself too much. With something as serious as Magic can be (as funny as it sounds), hold off on it if you're not sure. You really aren't hiding anything even if it is a big part of your life because if you can't express other interests outside of the game first you're probably already dead in the water and need to find other interests and make yourself colorful. Magic is a lifestyle hard-wired into our personalities, and you have to be prepared for backlash.

And if someone else can't see that, then they can go to Hell.

[Gui]

@Hollywood
Would you care to write a tl;dr version?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

It takes like five minutes to read what he wrote, and it's pretty intelligent. I'd just bite the bullet, holmes.

[Admiral_Arzar]

@Hollywood
Would you care to write a tl;dr version?

Reading is good for you. Stop being so fucking lazy.

[Esper3k]

I'm pretty certain the correct play is to impress bitches with your proness.

Oh, and playing the Turtenwald card too. Remember, it's all about image and brand name.

[Gui]

Reading is good for you. Stop being so fucking lazy.

It takes like five minutes to read what he wrote, and it's pretty intelligent. I'd just bite the bullet, holmes.
Thanks for the answers, Hollywood. Appreciate that. =P

I'll read when I reach home, in ~5 hours, then.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

@Hollywood: Reading that post was the best part of my day. Words well spoken. Thank you.

[atropos]

Hollywood, that was a very well-written response. Definitely very thoughtful and I agree with you that playing Magic and dating is only a big deal if you make it out to be. Thanks for taking the time to write that for us.

[hi-val]

There's no point in dating someone that you have to hide things from because you fear their reaction.

That said, I met my fiancee because she was a childhood friend of Tom Lapille and she knew from the start about my Magical powers. We talked about Wu Tang and Wrath of Khan the first night, which are not exactly mainstream, not-geeky things either.

[Amon Amarth]

There's no point in dating someone that you have to hide things from because you fear their reaction.

That said, I met my fiancee because she was a childhood friend of Tom Lapille and she knew from the start about my Magical powers. We talked about Wu Tang and Wrath of Khan the first night, which are not exactly mainstream, not-geeky things either.

Any woman that knows that some people aren't "nothin' to fuck with"... I'd snap keep.

[Angelfire]

Any woman that knows that some people aren't "nothin' to fuck with"... I'd snap keep.

Quoted for excellence.

[TeenieBopper]

Stuff

(no offense meant, I just didn't want a giant block of quoted text)

You're right in that Jon didn't behave perfectly (a play about Jeffrey Dahmer? Seriously?), but very little, if any of this, is his fault.

From the way the chick wrote the article, and Jon's response afterwards, I'm fairly confident that Jon did play it cool. He's said so himself that he tries to avoid talking about being a world champion in the company of non-magic people.

My guess is that she asked him directly, "What do you do for fun?" (or some variant thereof), to which he replied that he played Magic.

It seems to me that you're implying that we should be hiding the fact that we play Magic (or other things that we might be passionate about).

Fuck.

That.

Shit.

If some chick asks me what I do for fun, I'm going to be flat out honest with her. "I like to table top games. I like to read a lot, usually about math, science, and current events. Some comics, too. I also compete in grappling and MMA and train 5 or 6 times a week." I don't focus on me and I don't monopolize the conversation. If they don't asks further questions about it, I don't talk about it. But people deserve to know up front what you're about.

If you're not passionate about something, you're boring. I don't care what you're passionate about, so long as it's something intellectually or physically stimulating.

I'm sick of people being ashamed of their nerdy or geeky pursuits. Is someone going to seriously try and tell me that acting like some Jersey Shore fucktard, sitting around drinking, doing stupid shit, doing drugs, doing nothing is preferable to being a little bit nerdy? What the fuck ever.

Look, it comes down to this: if someone can't accept you and what you're passionate about up front, they're not worth your time. And if you're busy hiding what you're passionate about because you're afraid of what someone might think of you, then you're a fuckin' pussy and don't deserve someone else's time.

[socialite]

Kastle and Rada play at my LGS. The article made me lol and I'm rather impressed she admitted that she is an attention whore, at least she has no delusions.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I'm sick of people being ashamed of their nerdy or geeky pursuits. Is someone going to seriously try and tell me that acting like some Jersey Shore fucktard, sitting around drinking, doing stupid shit, doing drugs, doing nothing is preferable to being a little bit nerdy? What the fuck ever.

Look, it comes down to this: if someone can't accept you and what you're passionate about up front, they're not worth your time. And if you're busy hiding what you're passionate about because you're afraid of what someone might think of you, then you're a fuckin' pussy and don't deserve someone else's time.

A huge QFT on this one, and a breath of fresh air after all the "never bring up magic until you know her really well and know how she'll react" talk.

[thickasabrick]

This stuff is really getting dumb. Like, seriously dumb.

If you don't have any game outside of playing Magic and you can't get find yourself someone because of your own insecurities or rebellious 'flaunting' of your extracurricular hobbies, that's your own fault. Finkel probably decided to go for broke by mentioning he played Magic and was a 'World Champion' and completely dug himself into a hole not realizing that people are actually impressionable in different ways. People just jumped on his bandwagon because he is of 'royalty' in the gaming community, but the fact is none of us know what happened specifically on that date(s) or the mannerisms that were facilitated through the course of time between those two individuals. But people are quick to assume Finkel did nothing wrong on a fundamental level on those dates and dismiss his castigator because of her demeanor in writing. That's agreeable, and while I agree she is guilty on just about every count here, was she really just being "close-minded" in defending her own interests? I mean, she went out with him twice, so obviously she wanted to know more about him aside from the internet's assessment.

The fact is, some people - people who can step up their angle, especially when working one with someone of interest - can make the angle he used actually work. If you're going to use Magic as an angle for 'dating conversation,' do so with ego aside. Not everyone is a gamer or wants to be, and the fact is there are a lot of people out there who believe deep inside themselves that some people they date and find interesting or like very much will automatically accommodate their interests because we live in an 'open society.'

It just isn't that simple.

It makes you wonder, even in 2011, that some people could be so close-minded to people like Magic players in the sense that "all gamers are nerds." But - believe it or not - if you keep yourself clean, maintain a sense of personal style, and just be yourself without trying to impress someone with your Magic accolades or Magic in general (even if it comes up in conversation), you might have a shot at working a date or conversation without breaking down that person's 'walls' that are probably already high as it is. Mentioning Magic on a date could disqualify you immediately unless you are absolutely sure it's right to bring up. I'm simply going off historical theory here; I'm sure by now we're all in agreement that a lot of people out there have a negative perception or connotation associated with Magic players.

I feel my wife is very attractive and I did not mention to her I play(ed) Magic at all until just before we got married, which wound up being a month and a half later (we've been married now for over a year, happy and healthy). She was there - at the event with me - me when I Top 4'ed a Jupiter event last year. My point is, you need to do what is necessary, through trial and error, to make yourself happy. I found who I was looking for and got married very fast, but I realized inside I was making the right choice because it felt right. People said it wouldn't work. People said it would collapse. Sure, most often things like that don't last or happen often. But what matters is how you both feel, whether it's on a date or any other circumstance you experience with someone right off the bat. It really isn't any harder than that, but people make it harder because they probably aren't happy or comfortable with themselves first and foremost, which you need to be if you decide to date and sell yourself to someone else.

Otherwise, people will kick you to the curb - including your interests because they could care less. Sometimes you need to enjoy each other for who you are first before opening up to something (hold back laughter) - as intimate as discussing Magic really can be. I mean, let's face it: anyone who plays this game competitively is passionate about it and it means something to them on a personal level. Magic is unique in how unprecedented a game can touch so many people in so many different ways, that to simply "mention" it out of nowhere can draw spite or criticism on deep, deep levels. That's why we were all upset with what happened to Finkel - not necessarily because of what she wrote, but how she reacted. It's personal, and it means something intimate to us. Finkel brushed it off cool and like the pro he is, but I'd bet it hurt him on a serious level. Internet dating is fine, but it's a method used to side-step traditional ways of meeting people in a refreshing way; once something like what happened to Finkel happens to you, it can be traumatizing.

In a date, you want to make it feel to the other person that what you do is really that interesting and enjoyable without imposing yourself too much. With something as serious as Magic can be (as funny as it sounds), hold off on it if you're not sure. You really aren't hiding anything even if it is a big part of your life because if you can't express other interests outside of the game first you're probably already dead in the water and need to find other interests and make yourself colorful. Magic is a lifestyle hard-wired into our personalities, and you have to be prepared for backlash.

And if someone else can't see that, then they can go to Hell.

This advice might have worked for you, but just to present a counter-argument... it's basically 100% the opposite of what I had success with. You talk a lot about things feeling right. Did it really feel right to so carefully control the way you deal out information about your life to someone that you're committing the rest of your life to?

Carefully controlling the release of information about your passions is one way to do it, but I have always gone for exactly the opposite approach. I was always up front and honest, my goal was to find someone who loves me for my passions. I never thought, "I better hide this part of myself so that she'll have a better chance of liking me."

"Sometimes you need to enjoy each other for who you are first before opening up to something (hold back laughter) - as intimate as discussing Magic really can be." "Magic is a lifestyle hard-wired into our personalities"

Dude if it's really that important to you, Magic is WHO YOU ARE. It's a big part of your life and you should find someone who can appreciate this. Not tolerate it, not put up with it, not be with you in spite of it - but appreciate it. Share it.

I also never treated dating as a situation where I was selling myself (as you put it). I would just show up, be myself, and spend some time with someone. If you're truly comfortable with yourself, then there's no selling going on. Plus if I'm looking for a long term relationship by having the mindset of 'selling' myself and it 'works out', what am I going to do - constantly be selling myself for the next 50 years to keep her happy? I was honest and open and found someone who loves that person, not some semi-facade. Magic players trying to find girlfriends should give themselves some credit. You're probably smart and focused, and likely have some other good qualities going on - there are people out there who are looking for that!

I have a wonderful wife who loves to play casual magic and always wants me to teach her strategy about the game. We've been happy for a long time now (almost 5 years). We don't play a ton of Magic (maybe an hour/week on average?), but it is a part of our relationship. The same way that going for hikes, camping, cooking, etc. are part of our relationship. I didn't hide the fact that I like Magic any more than I hid the fact that I love to go hiking/camping. Be confident in yourself and your passions, and find someone who wants to be with 'the real you'.

Just my $0.02.

[Greenpoe]

Don't act like hiding your interests is a bad thing. It's just convenient that Magic is a good thing to hide. If a girl asks me what I like to do for fun, I'll either be a man of mystery (dodging the question in a funny way), lie/exaggerate with a simplified explanation, or list a few of my highlights. I wouldn't bother talking about everyday life. First dates are interviews anyway, you just need to make about 75% eye contact (look to the side when you break it, but not down) and tease the girl. It's mostly about delivery more than what you say.

[hi-val]

I chatted with an attractive woman just last night at a bar who, after I mentioned that I was big into Magic cards, said that she really liked to play Magic with her older brother and wanted to get back into it. It's not that hard to talk about, you just have to own it with enough authority that another person cannot consider it being geeky as a viable reaction to the information. That requires a certain force of personality, though.

[Richard Cheese]

Eh, just own up to it. If people ask what I'm into, one of the first things I tell them is that I'm a giant nerd, and like a lot of nerd stuff. I don't get overly specific unless they want to know more, but I've never considered being a nerd some sort of liability.

Most importantly, if you're really into stuff like Magic and board/vidya games, you probably aren't going to be happy with someone that looks down on things like that.

It's not even unique to dating really. If someone thinks they're too cool for you because of your hobbies, just chalk it up to their loss and move on.

I think Finkel really nailed the whole mentality when talking about poker:


I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. Magic players have been developing that since their teens, and its just so applicable to poker, gambling, and life in general.
I read a cracked article about online poker where they talked about it making you "immune to bad luck". You just take the bad beats in every area of your life in stride and move on.

[Jander78]

I find it never really matters what you talk about on a date. As long as you're confident and proud, you'll have no problems. To Mike's (Teeniebopper) point, being passionate about something is always good, but there's a fine line between passion and obsession.

I generally tell girls about my geeky hobbies before anything "cool" that I'm into. It's a good test to see if they're actually worth my time.

[Purgatory]

Probably relevant context (http://www.draftmagic.com/2011/04/18/interview-with-rada/).

Wouldn't tap it, even with double sleeves. Jeez...

[marit]

I find it never really matters what you talk about on a date. As long as you're confident and proud, you'll have no problems. To Mike's (Teeniebopper) point, being passionate about something is always good, but there's a fine line between passion and obsession.

I generally tell girls about my geeky hobbies before anything "cool" that I'm into. It's a good test to see if they're actually worth my time.

I was going to post something just like this, but you beat me too it. If you're not ashamed of playing magic they won't care. And if they do why would you want to be with someone that bitchy anyways?