Number of Snapcaster Mages in Top 8 at SC Indy

[anonymos]

I'm curious as to the number of Snapcaster Mage people actually think will be played. I know it's early in the legality for it so people haven't had time to find the best use of the card yet, but are there any predictions for the number of copies of the card that top 8?

I'm guessing 3 in top 8 and 7 in top 16 if they give us lists that far down.

[troopatroop]

2 of top 8, 4 of 16. People won't know how to best use it yet. Goblins and Zoo will be 33% imo

[Ramirez777]

Speaking on the same topic: If you're running 4 x Snapcaster Mages, what would be the recommended number of sorceries and instants in a deck to maxamize his potential?

[Shimi]

I'm goind to guess 10(3 decks) in top8 and 16(5 decks) in top16.

[ivanpei]

I'd probably say you'd want 16-18 flasbackable 1/2cc spells to run a full set of Snapcasters. Any less makes double Snapcaster a terrible draw. Snapcaster dominated the Standard Open BTW, it's price won't be dropping anytime soon.


Something like this would probably make 4 Snapcasters playable in a deck:

4 STP
4 Brainstorm
2 Path to Exile/Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce/Counterspell/Ponder
3 Daze (Actually decent with Snapcaster, Flashing back a forcespike isn't all that bad)

[lordofthepit]

I thought I had the most pessimistic outlook on Snapcaster Mage.

I'm predicting somewhere around 6-10 copies in the Top 8, going downhill from there in later tournaments.

[lordofthepit]

Snapcaster dominated the Standard Open BTW

Are you referring to SCG Indy? I see 10 copies in the Top 8, which I consider a solid showing but far from dominating. Granted, I can't see the rest of the Top 32 decklists since it looks like the SCG site just died before I could open the remaining 24 lists. Were SCMs very pervasive there?

Edit: 10 copies in the Top 8, 12 in the Top 16, but a whopping 36 copies in #18-32 (Decklist for 17th place not shown), giving a total of 48 copies in the Top 32 (or rather, 31 of top 32). Really curious that the Snapcaster Mage decks seemed to "die" in the higher tables though, but I wouldn't really know or care about why Standard decks are the way they are.

[Phoenix Ignition]

I think there will be more than there should be, since people are going to be flavor of the monthing them into decks they shouldn't go in. I see 1 or maybe 2 archtypes tops that can actually use him well. Spending 3+ mana should almost win you games already and merely getting a 2/1 body isn't going to be as great as everyone is making it out to be.

The hype will die down and he'll be a solid but not broken card.

[Kich867]

I think there will be more than there should be, since people are going to be flavor of the monthing them into decks they shouldn't go in. I see 1 or maybe 2 archtypes tops that can actually use him well. Spending 3+ mana should almost win you games already and merely getting a 2/1 body isn't going to be as great as everyone is making it out to be.

The hype will die down and he'll be a solid but not broken card.

I believe he'll revamp high tide combo, but also I've personally tested him in aggressive decks that ran blue for things like FOW and Daze + Stifle, without much room for card drawing outside of brainstorm, and he's an absolute bomb. He becomes far, far more useful as the game goes on (obviously). Flashing back swords I burnt early game, even at one point flashing back a bolt to the dome for the win, the card is absurdly useful--just...not that great in the opening hand.

[Piceli89]

Rather than Snapback Mage, I'll ask you to guess the number of Delver of Secrets in a few weeks, or a month.

[fallenphoenix]

Rather than Snapback Mage, I'll ask you to guess the number of Delver of Secrets in a few weeks, or a month.

x = 0.

My bad if I'm wrong, but a conditinal 3/2 with a minor drawback (revealing cards to your opponent) just doesn't seem to cut it for me, especially when he/she/it is so bad on defense.

I could see ~2 SCM in a few control decks some time in the future. Perhaps even 3, but I doubt 4, because fitting them + other good creatures (SFM, Bob, Goyf) + Jaces + Instants/Sorceries into the same deck is somewhat difficult. But I could see a deck with him beeing good and thus making T8.
I cannot say anything about SpiralTide though.

[Gheizen64]

x = 0.

My bad if I'm wrong, but a conditinal 3/2 with a minor drawback (revealing cards to your opponent) just doesn't seem to cut it for me, especially when he/she/it is so bad on defense.

I could see ~2 SCM in a few control decks some time in the future. Perhaps even 3, but I doubt 4, because fitting them + other good creatures (SFM, Bob, Goyf) + Jaces + Instants/Sorceries into the same deck is somewhat difficult. But I could see a deck with him beeing good and thus making T8.
I cannot say anything about SpiralTide though.

If you word it like that, even Nacatly can look terrible. The card is comparable to Nacatl and has evasion, a pretty much important point since it evade basically every played legacy creature. And imho it's the better card, evasion is just so important for an aggro creature nowadays.

[GGoober]

I played Delver this weekend, and a friend played it as well. Granted that Delver is narrowly played in Tempo decks (i.e. decks with 8-12 creatures and everything else is instant/disruption/permission), this card has definitely felt incredibly powerful. The one-drop and easy transform trigger (fueled easily by a cantrip) makes this card stand right on par with Wild Nacatl in terms of aggression (in fact it's better because it flies).

Yesterday I played this card and ran into many situations where I debated if it's worth protecting it against a removal and it paid off. He usually brings in 9-12 damage all by himself when dropped early.

I love Snapcasters, but personally I think Snapcaster is a 2-of in some control/mid-game lists, or a 4-off in certain High Tide decks. Delver is in the Tempo shell, and I think Delver himself impacts the format more than Snapcaster since Snapcaster isn't really shaping any archetype with the exception of Solidarity to being a significant improvement.

[TsumiBand]

x = 0.

My bad if I'm wrong, but a conditinal 3/2 with a minor drawback (revealing cards to your opponent) just doesn't seem to cut it for me, especially when he/she/it is so bad on defense.

I could see ~2 SCM in a few control decks some time in the future. Perhaps even 3, but I doubt 4, because fitting them + other good creatures (SFM, Bob, Goyf) + Jaces + Instants/Sorceries into the same deck is somewhat difficult. But I could see a deck with him beeing good and thus making T8.
I cannot say anything about SpiralTide though.

Delver of Secrets is a house. It's a Nacatl that you can play in mono-Blue, that Wasteland can never randomly dick, that pitches to Force, that flies. Holy shit.

[coraz86]

Delver of Secrets is a house. It's a Nacatl that you can play in mono-Blue, that Wasteland can never randomly dick, that pitches to Force, that flies. Holy shit.

QFMFT. Every time I've opened it in a limited pool, I've been glad to see it and won games with it--in a limited format that's pretty permanent-heavy. I'm already slotting it into a number of constructed decks and planning on testing it/picking up German foils.

It's already been spoken of in the Team America thread, and I can see somebody rocking it in Blue Zoo (a la Kurtis Droge at GP Chicago (http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/gpchi09/blog2#1)).

Granted, I don't think it'll be format-breaking, but this is the kind of skill-testing card I was referring to in whichever "ban Misstep" thread it was that I posted it in.

Regarding Snapcaster; I don't think it'll bend decks around itself so much as it'll encourage people to specialize their lists (kind of the way Team America and Maverick have been going, for instance, with a million singletons/two-ofs), knowing that they can re-use their narrow cards. I can't see people doing exactly the same things, but I'm reminded of the Napster deck that Jon Finkel won US Nationals 2000 with.

[JustPAT4]

Starting to look like a better question might be "how many Infernal Tutors will make the top 8?"

[Zilla]

Delver is ridiculously strong in Tempo Thresh. With the amount of blue-based aggro-control in this format, it will definitely see play and do well.

[Piceli89]

x = 0.

My bad if I'm wrong, but a conditinal 3/2 with a minor drawback (revealing cards to your opponent) just doesn't seem to cut it for me, especially when he/she/it is so bad on defense.
.

We'll see. Prepare to crack your fetchlands carefully, meanwhile.

[ivanpei]

Snapcaster bug is making waves. If Gerry Thompson and aj satcher are playing it, must be pretty good. How did we miss the snapcaster/unearth interaction again? It's pretty strong. The only thing I disagree with in those lists are the edict effects. Snapcaster makes edicts bad IMO. I'd rather have a 2/2 dismember ghastly demise split. Interesting that snappy is played over dark confidants and tombstalkers and as a 4 of as well. Wow.

[Zilla]

4 Snapcaster in 1 deck in Top 8. 11 Snapcaster in 3 decks in Top 16.

All 3 decks running them were Team America-like: 1 classic TA with 3 Snapcaster alongside Goyf and Tombstalker, and 2 of Gerry Thompson's BUG control list that runs Snapcaster in place of both Confidant and Tombstalker.

[Pippin]

Seems to me that only people that are pushing it are coming from the Gerry T crew - or that everyone else who tried it failed.

Main problem with Snapcaster mage is that it's mana hungry and makes opponents daze's and wasteland's so much better. Not to mention that 2/1 body is most of the time irrelevant in Legacy without any kind of evasion.

[Koby]

I think Snapcaster Mage has a ton of merit in UB/x decks, particularly for the reuse on removal and discard. It's a strict upgrade to Esper and Patrior stoneblade lists as well. I'm inclined to think that the lack of Snapcaster Mages at this tournament was only apparent at the top tables where Reanimator and Storm were roflstomping everything left and right. The top 16 even has Belcher, which shows you the penetration of Combo at this event.

[ivanpei]

I think these guys are banking on snapcaster too much. Sure the card is good, but they are warping their decks way too much to accommodate it. The card slots in perfectly into any blue deck but they are playing waaay too many copies. They need instant action cards such as spell pierce and spell snare. Even the merfolk list is extremely anti aggro oriented with just force and daze as counters.

People have to stop forcing snapcaster as a 4 off. He works best as a 2/3 off because he is so mana intensive. Replace a few copies of snapcaster with a few conditional counters and those decks should fare better against combo.

Also surgical extraction is so boss against snapcaster and alongside snapcaster. That's my pick for the card to watch. Especially with misstep gone and reanimator on the rise, the card needs to be in everyboard. The fact that surgical extraction screws with intuition (lol) and other combos (past in flame/Iggy) is also icing.

[Zilla]

Snapcaster may be overhyped at the moment, but the synergy between it and Unearth (a card I love) is pretty goddamned awesome.

[anonymos]

Snapcaster may be overhyped at the moment

For Legacy I agree.

BTW - final numbers for those who haven't looked. 4 Snapcaster Mage in the top 8 and 3 more in the top 16. Made for 7 total. I guessed pretty good. :D

On a more interesting note, there's a belcher deck that made top 16. How does everyone feel about that? Link to List (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=41100)

[Humphrey]

Belcher is pretty random, also I prefer the list with 12 cantrips