Sell your Goyfs - a prediction

[bruizar]

So, I think Tarmogoyf will be reprinted this block (last set) because of several indicators. I want to open the discussion and see who's right at the end of Innistrad block.

Here are the factors that determine my stance on reprinting Goyf.

*Third set of Innistrad block has least printings, (least drafted set of the block), which would prevent a massive overload of Goyfs on the market, while stil increasing its availability.
*Tarmogoyf is a graveyard-dependent card, it benefits from cards in your graveyard (innistrad theme).
*Tarmogoyf isn't banned in modern
*Modern staples need to be accessible and Future Sight wasn't printed much compared to other sets.
*Tarmogoyf is known for its vague/bad art, it could use an art-revamp.
*Reprinting Goyf would make the set it is in sell like hot-cakes
*Liliana of the Veil was tested in block and supposedly it's balanced enough in the context of the entire block. This means there will be more cards that benefit from being in the graveyard, making the +1 less brutal in Standard. This fits seamlessly with the thought that Goyf is gonna be reprinted.

I'm fairly confident this is going to happen, but it's all speculation. What do you guys think?

[bakofried]

I think, if they go ahead and reprint Goofy, they should finish the job and reprint Tombstalker as well. Not because Stalker's prices are out of control, but more because with both of them in standard, along with no fetches, plus Grim Lavamancer, means that using the graveyard as a resource may be a little straining. Also , with no fetches, Rav Shocks seem possibly safe for standard.

[dontbiteitholmes]

So, I think Tarmogoyf will be reprinted this block (last set) because of several indicators.

What indicators? Those aren't indicators, that is just you saying why you want it reprinted.

[menace13]

Think they will reprint those too. Stalker and Goyf both have time shifted borders and use the GY. The set has a Horror theme of Demons, Vamps, Zombies and Werewolves. Seems like the correct future set to house them.

Wish they reprint Korlash here too. Loved playing that card in Std.

[dahcmai]

Problem with that theory is they stopped supporting the Tribal keyword. I'll have to side with not a chance of reprint any time soon.

[bruizar]

What indicators? Those aren't indicators, that is just you saying why you want it reprinted.

If I want it reprinted, RND wants it reprinted too, because that means more packs will be sold.



@dahcmai: could you provide a source on the abolishment of the tribal keyword?

[(nameless one)]

If I want it reprinted, RND wants it reprinted too, because that means more packs will be sold.



@dahcmai: could you provide a source on the abolishment of the tribal keyword?

It's not abolished, they just won't support it anymore. Hence, we will not see them in future blocks anymore.

[Nihil Credo]

@dahcmai: could you provide a source on the abolishment of the tribal keyword?
MaRo's tumblr, he got asked why the Zombie sorceries weren't Tribal, he explained why Tribal sucked and said "don't expect to see it any time soon" or some such. That said, I don't think that alone would prevent Tarmogoyf to be reprinted, they can just skip the reminder text - it's not a very complicated card when the next block isn't about to introduce two new card types.

Also, in MaRo's column he said that Delve got quickly removed from the set because it's a 'graveyard mechanic' that actually fucks up the entire graveyard theme. So no Tombstalker.

[Mr. Safety]

Imagine a Tombstalker that delved your opponent's graveyard. Broken and AWESOME.

[GGoober]

Good wishing Mr. Safety, why don't we make him a 6/6 flying with pro-black as well since they printed Dismember and GFTT. Man, Tombstalker used to be even more powerful back in the day, fearing only Wrath of God, StP and Oring.

Anyway, I sold my Goyfs off. I have not played them in over 2 years, Modern spiked its price up fairly high, and I'm pretty certain a reprint will be due (if not in the new standard sets, at least in a FtV: Exiled No. 2)

[dontbiteitholmes]

If I want it reprinted, RND wants it reprinted too, because that means more packs will be sold.


Oh well that is some solid logic, guess I'll sell my Goyfs now.

[warai]

Tarmogoyf will be reprinted. No doubt about that. Prices are going up and new players want to play modern. Aaron Forsythe said that they will solve the supply and demand issue and make sure Modern will not go the Legacy high prices path.

Innistrad seems a nice set.. M13 may be another alternative.. But for now this talk its pure speculation.

[Malchar]

It's not abolished, they just won't support it anymore. Hence, we will not see them in future blocks anymore.

1. Tarmogoyf doesn't have tribal. Tribal only appears in the reminder text. Even if they never print another tribal card, "tribal" is still a card type, so it should show up in reminder text if not for standard players than for eternal ones.

2. Wizards does whatever they want.

3. They'll print something better than Tarmogoyf pretty soon anyway.

[jamesh]

i hope they reprint it with a new pic
that current one sucks @ss

[Esper3k]

I'm pretty certain in the past, MaRo has admitted Tarmogoyf was a mistake and wouldn't be reprinted.

As Nihil Credo pointed out, Tombstalker (and Delve) were specifically left out of Innistrad because of the negative effect it had on Flashback and the graveyard.

I would guess that sooner or later we'll be going back to Ravnica and we'll see the shock lands reprinted there.

Dark Confidant would be a fairly thematic reprint in Innistrad as well.

[Mr. Safety]

Look at the other powerful 2-drops that have been printed since Tarmogoyf. It seems as if they are trying to reprint Goyf but also make the timing of it so that he won't be the auto-include he used to be. Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, and Snapcaster Mage are the 3 that come to mind immediately as vying for best 2-drop status. Goyf is goyf, not disputing that...but those 2-drops add much more than just a big ass.

[Sims]

Look at the other powerful 2-drops that have been printed since Tarmogoyf. It seems as if they are trying to reprint Goyf but also make the timing of it so that he won't be the auto-include he used to be. Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, and Snapcaster Mage are the 3 that come to mind immediately as vying for best 2-drop status. Goyf is goyf, not disputing that...but those 2-drops add much more than just a big ass.

Just a nit-pick: Confidant was printed before tarmogoyf.

[Mr. Safety]

Look at the other powerful 2-drops. It seems as if they are trying to reprint Goyf but also make the timing of it so that he won't be the auto-include he used to be. Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, and Snapcaster Mage are the 3 that come to mind immediately as vying for best 2-drop status. Goyf is goyf, not disputing that...but those 2-drops add much more than just a big ass.

Fix'd...many thanks Sims. I forgot Bob was in Planar Chaos.

[Dark Ritual]

Fix'd...many thanks Sims. I forgot Bob was in Planar Chaos.

Except it was in ravnica, city of guilds.

On tarmogoyf getting reprinted. I bet he does get the reprint sometime soon SOMEWHERE because Forsythe said they want to support modern; if they -never- reprint goyf, he'll be the underground sea of modern in essence due to his 100 dollar price tag and there's no hint that that's going to change any time soon.

If they reprint him, I hope they give him new art though. The art right now is downright ugly and I hate that he's so ugly because getting beaten by an ugly card is just demoralizing.

It was just confirmed that the next block after Innistrad will not be a return to ravnica rather that it's something brand new but we will return to ravnica later on maybe the year after that or something. But this means nothing because the 'ravnica' shocklands had the names they did so they could get reprinted anywhere.

[majikal]

Fix'd...many thanks Sims. I forgot Bob was in Planar Chaos.
I'm sure you mean Ravnica.

[Kuma]

I'm pretty certain in the past, MaRo has admitted Tarmogoyf was a mistake and wouldn't be reprinted.

I don't feel like digging for it, but I'm pretty sure you're right.

Tarmogoyf is not getting reprinted in Innistrad block. This block is top-down designed like no other and I don't see how Tarmogoyf is even remotely related to classic horror. In combination with the "mistake" statement, there's no way Tarmogoyf makes it into a Standard-legal set, especially not a graveyard one. You think Tarmogoyf was good the first time it was in Standard? How much better is it going to be when you've got this many cards filling the graveyard?

If you're not using them, selling your goyfs right now is pretty low-risk, but I'm confident enough that he's not coming back in Innistrad block that I'm not going through the hassle.

Maybe Tarmogoyf ends up in a Duel Deck or other special release, but I'm not holding my breath.

[warai]

With the power creep we have been seeing these years Tarmogoyf is within the standards with Stoneforge Mystic, I would risk to say that he is worst than mystic. Printing Tarmogoyf in a standard edition would probably be a mistake but in some kind of premium package it would be perfectly fine.

[dontbiteitholmes]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Goyf in a FTV but I think the more likely scenario is that he will be reprinted as a judge promo at some point.

When WotC says they are going to reprint cards in Modern so they don't have the availability issues of Legacy it doesn't mean they are going to reprint every expensive card to keep prices down. It just means that Modern will never have "Candelabras, Moats, Duals, Tabernacles" type of cards where they haven't been reprinted in 15 years and are almost impossible to even find for trade.

[Koby]

Mike Turian said Goyf was a mistake at :1::g: and should have been left at :2::g:. For this reason I don't think that we will see a reprint of Tarmogoyf. Boneyard Wurm might be the nearest card printed to Tarmogoyf.

[thecrav]

Aaron Forsythe said that they will solve the supply and demand issue and make sure Modern will not go the Legacy high prices path.

Banning it would certainly help lower demand and they seem to have gotten really good at banning things in Modern thus far.

[Skeggi]

If Tarmogoyf were to be reprinted in a new set, making him legal for Standard, wouldn't that (temporarily) increase its price? As in: don't sell them yet?

[Gocho]

Not necessarily. Grim Lavamancer was reprinted in M12 and drop its price.

[caiomarcos]

Not necessarily. Grim Lavamancer was reprinted in M12 and drop its price.

Lavamancer, although being very good, is not a mandatory 4-of in every deck like Tarmogoyf.

[Dxfiler]

Goyf was a mistake. They don't like printing mistakes.

I'd hedge my bets on shock lands if anything. Those seem to be the most obvious thing they would reprint if they were going to try and make modern more accessible.

They won't ban Goyf on power level for the simple reason it's a creature.

Other than possibly being a judge promo or as a collector's item gimmick, the card will never see print again in a standard legal set.

- Dave

[Gocho]

Lavamancer, although being very good, is not a mandatory 4-of in every deck like Tarmogoyf.

A little early to predict that every deck in Standard will play 4 Tarmogoyf.
Many decks in Legacy doesn't play Tarmogoyf, or play 1 + 4 Zeniths.

[GGoober]

WotC could theoretically print goyf in Standard but they would have to wait at the right time when Goyf doesn't grow easily past 3/4 (i.e. no fetchlands, shitty instants/sorceries, shitty planeswalker). Sadly that day will never come unless they decide to go with a block theme of all creatures, even then 2-sets will be overlapping. I'm willing to bet that Goyf will be reprinted in some sort of FTV or 'Commander'-ish deck for eternal staples print-runs. I don't support either reprintings since they should really seek to maintain the value of cards to collectors, but I highly belief some staples will be printed eventually.

[dahcmai]

Though I will add there's pretty good chances of a reprint of Goyf in one of those boxed sets (FTV most likely) to answer that comment about reprinting modern rares. This would prevent the price from bottoming out and hold value to the old and sell those FTV's instantly. Double whammy with the sales.

There is some hesitation when Wizards decides to reprint things that are worth a ton though and it makes me wonder exactly what is the cut off point for that. Sort of like how it was flat obvious people wanted Xiahou Dun, the one eyed for that Legends FTV, and Sliver Queen for the Slivers set (they were still doing the foil reserved ones at that time) but they passed it up. It's as though they like to keep some cards in high demand despite what people want.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Lavamancer, although being very good, is not a mandatory 4-of in every deck like Tarmogoyf.

Did you play Standard during Time Spiral?

Tarmogoyf wasn't broken then and won't be broken in the current Standard. We don't have fetches or the cheap popular spells that Legacy has and while goyf is efficient he isn't broken.

[Esper3k]

Goyf was a mistake. They don't like printing mistakes.

I'd hedge my bets on shock lands if anything. Those seem to be the most obvious thing they would reprint if they were going to try and make modern more accessible.

They won't ban Goyf on power level for the simple reason it's a creature.

Other than possibly being a judge promo or as a collector's item gimmick, the card will never see print again in a standard legal set.

- Dave

I agree that I don't think Goyf will be reprinted and the shock lands are most likely of the Modern staples to be reprinted (look, they already reprinted Ghost Quarter!).

While I don't think they'll ban Goyf, it's not because it's a creature since they have already set precedent on banning creatures in Modern (Stoneforge Mystic).

[caiomarcos]

Did you play Standard during Time Spiral?

Tarmogoyf wasn't broken then and won't be broken in the current Standard. We don't have fetches or the cheap popular spells that Legacy has and while goyf is efficient he isn't broken.

During Time Spiral it wasn't broken until it was released two sets later. BW discard imediately incorporated green for Tarmogoy, that I remember because I used to play BW discard. That's Rav-TS.

Anyway, there's no point in comparing Goyf and Lavamancer. The reason are more then obvious.

[2Rach]

During Time Spiral it wasn't broken until it was released two sets later. BW discard imediately incorporated green for Tarmogoy, that I remember because I used to play BW discard. That's Rav-TS.

Anyway, there's no point in comparing Goyf and Lavamancer. The reason are more then obvious.
That was the only Standard deck it really fit into well. (Very well, Jotun Grunt who?) BW became BG a couple weeks after the prerelease. It lost popularity, and during the end of TS block the only tier 1 deck that played Goyf was BG Elves, which usually ran it as a 3-of. It was only a little above average in Standard, not borderline bannable(considering the bitching) like it was in Extended or Legacy during the time.

[Mr. Safety]

Except it was in ravnica, city of guilds.

Doh...another epic fail from Mr. Safety, lol.

[Comrade]

Doh...another epic fail from Mr. Safety, lol.

Pretty much.

[DragoFireheart]

It's tempting to sell them, though I do love goyf quite a bit.

[keys]

If anyone has a playset of Foil Goyfs for sale at a good price let me know.

[bakofried]

I thought you were just trolling us, Mr. Safety.

[Esper3k]

I dumped my spare set of nonfoil Goyfs when they hit 80 just because I figure they won't go stupidly higher (I sold them cash, so no loss through eBay) and if Modern goes the way of Extended and Goyfs drop again, then I'm ahead.

[thranmonster]

Yeah, same here. I'm unloading my set. Picked up 4x for $130 awhile back now I'm getting offers of $260+. Gotta cash while the iron is hot.

[Mr. Safety]

I thought you were just trolling us, Mr. Safety.

While that was not my intent, the result is the same:Hunted Troll

[TsumiBand]

Tarmogoyf is not getting reprinted in Innistrad block. This block is top-down designed like no other and I don't see how Tarmogoyf is even remotely related to classic horror.....
Maybe Tarmogoyf ends up in a Duel Deck or other special release, but I'm not holding my breath.

This makes the most sense of any post concerning Tarmogoyf's putative reprintability in the near future. Exactly that; the top-down approach is dominating the execution of Innistrad, it's not even fair to call it "graveyard themed" so much as "horror themed". It's like saying Buffy the Vampire Slayer was 'a show about graveyards', when really that's just a side-effect of the show's premise.

[keys]

This makes the most sense of any post concerning Tarmogoyf's putative reprintability in the near future. Exactly that; the top-down approach is dominating the execution of Innistrad, it's not even fair to call it "graveyard themed" so much as "horror themed". It's like saying Buffy the Vampire Slayer was 'a show about graveyards', when really that's just a side-effect of the show's premise.

If Boneyard Wurm and Splinterfright both fit into Innistrad's theme, I don't see why Tarmogoyf couldn't. In fact, they seem more like foreshadowing to me.

[Malchar]

This makes the most sense of any post concerning Tarmogoyf's putative reprintability in the near future. Exactly that; the top-down approach is dominating the execution of Innistrad, it's not even fair to call it "graveyard themed" so much as "horror themed". It's like saying Buffy the Vampire Slayer was 'a show about graveyards', when really that's just a side-effect of the show's premise.

"Ach! Hans, Run!" it's the tarmogoyf!

The art for Tarmogoyf suggests that the creature is about to eat someone alive. Definitely one of the scariest green creatures.

Aside from that, like it or not, Innistrad is about graveyards. You have flashback, morbid, etc. As a practical matter, it makes a lot of sense to eventually reprint tarmogoyf. If they were to reprint it in any other block, it would make much less sense than just reprinting it now. Frankly, I'll be very surprised if they choose not to reprint tombstalker as well. If I didn't know any better, I'd assume that tombstalker was specifically made to eventually appear in Innistrad. I mean, it's even a demon!

As stated, tarmogoyf's power level can be toned down depending on what else is available in standard. When it was legal in future sight, that was just a crazy format. Seal of primordium and the rack were both legal. Without insane tools like those, I think tarmogoyf could be much weaker.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Tombstalker and the Delve mechanic absolutely belong in Innistrad but wotc already said they won't be included. Apparently interesting cards that make you choose between delving into your graveyard to accelerate your mana or saving the cards in graveyard to be flashbacked later are too hard to understand. >:(

Delve was definitely one of the best keywords from Future Sight and it sucks we (probably) will never see it.

[bruizar]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/cardart/FUT/Tarmogoyf_640.jpg

The painting is literally filled with skulls, and some dude that doesn't look too healthy, about to get eaten. How can you say that this won't fit in the theme?

[Admiral_Arzar]

The painting is literally filled with skulls, and some dude that doesn't look too healthy, about to get eaten. How can you say that this won't fit in the theme?

I've always found this art to be fucking badass (especially combined with the future sight border) and have never really understood why so many people think it sucks. But yes, it would definitely fit into the theme, although creative will probably concoct some bullshit to try and explain why they "couldn't" reprint it.

EDIT: The skulls are those of all the Legacy players that have died to this guy over the years...