Good flyers in Legacy

[GGoober]

I've been building some lists and I came across a few issues with finding good flyers in Legacy. In particular, I am looking at cheap (CMC) and big flyers in Legacy.

The following are a few that I can think of:

Tombstalker
Vendilion Clique
Delver of Secrets (this is the best flyer of them all, provided you play a tempo creature-light shell)
Serra Avenger
Coralhelm Commander
Serendib Efreet

Can anyone think of any other flyers that are cheap (easy to cast early in the game) and big (at least 3 power)?

A few other questions/comments:

I think Serra Avenger is too narrow and requires a Vial deck to be truly successful. Thoughts?

Would Coralhelm Commander fit in non-Merfolk decks just to get him to a 3/3 flyer? Is that worth the total cost of UU+1 landing on turn 2?

Why is Serendib Efreet not as popularly played? I know he's more of a figure in the past but a 3/4 flying for 2U isn't half-bad, and could potentially be really neat with Noble Hierarch (4/5 flying on turn 2).

Right now, I'm running Tombstalkers + Delvers + Cliques, but I'm thinking if there are other options, in particular Coralhelm Commander/Serendib Efreet.

EDIT: OMG Wrong sub-forum, can I mod move this? thanks!

[DragoFireheart]

lol, you'll piss off the Modern players!

Maybe Serendib Efreet isn't played due to the really ugly artwork?

[Richard Cheese]

I don't get the argument that Avenger is only good with Vial. Doesn't Vial only drop her one turn earlier? I think she's definitely better with vial, but she's still a 3/3 flyer with vigilance for 2 all on her own.

Also the AN art for Serendib is awesome...that guy really should see more play. Blue Zoo maybe?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Sea Drake is basically the best thing ever. I even have a playset for trade just for you :).

[(nameless one)]

Sea Drake is basically the best thing ever. I even have a playset for trade just for you :).


Sea Drake is great U/W Tempo material!

[4eak]

Thread moved to the Legacy format discussion forum.

-4eak

[Richard Cheese]

Sea Drake is pretty hot, just wildly overpriced.

[troopatroop]

Insectile Aberation. Damn that guy is good... almost makes Red better by himself right?

[Zilla]

Insectile Aberation. Damn that guy is good... almost makes Red better by himself right?
In the same way the Misstep made Red better by itself. In other words, not as much better as it made Blue.

[Draener]

Flickerwisp. Best. Card. Ever.

[TsumiBand]

Skinshifter isn't exactly a flyer, but kinda.

No love for Vampire Nighthawk?

[troopatroop]

In the same way the Misstep made Red better by itself. In other words, not as much better as it made Blue.

Right! I mean, MM did make Red better, but it also made blue better. This guy makes red better against blue for sure tho!

[Finn]

Skinshifter would be great if only it didn't suck.

Avenger is no good without Vial. Flickerwisp is one of my favorites, really. It does for the battlefield the same thing Vendilion does for the hand. But you could make the same argument about it needing a Vial.

What about Sower of Temptation? I know it does not quite fit either the size requirements or the curve, but it is a winner when unanswered.

[Esper3k]

Emrakul!

[trivial_matters]

Mystic Enforcer.

T2 Werebear and T3 Mystic Enforcer is usually game.

EDIT: Provided you have threshold.

[morgan_coke]

Emrakul!

That's true, Emrakul does only cost 2U. And it flies. And has more than 3 power.

[sroncor1]

Sea Drake is one of the strongest flyers ever printed. Unfortunately, you really need some deck building steps to really take advantage of him, unlike Tombstaulker which basically just needs a moderate black base. Between that and Stompy decks being inconsistent, it is hard to really endorse him or Serendib. That being said combined with cards that take advantage of Landfall, there may be something there. The problem is that in terms of Aggro, why not just play Zoo as it is more consistant or Goyf and Knight and just keep bashing face. They have less constraints but equal if not more raw power.

Seth

[Richard Cheese]

Sea Drake is one of the strongest flyers ever printed. Unfortunately, you really need some deck building steps to really take advantage of him, unlike Tombstaulker which basically just needs a moderate black base. Between that and Stompy decks being inconsistent, it is hard to really endorse him or Serendib. That being said combined with cards that take advantage of Landfall, there may be something there. The problem is that in terms of Aggro, why not just play Zoo as it is more consistant or Goyf and Knight and just keep bashing face. They have less constraints but equal if not more raw power.

Seth

Zoo's problem is that all it's creatures have trouble with Walls. T1 Steel Wall into T2 Wall of Earth into T3 Wall of Stone is pretty much GG.

[wcm8]

Mystic Enforcer.

T2 Werebear and T3 Mystic Enforcer is usually game.

EDIT: Provided you have threshold.

Did I just step into 2003?

[trivial_matters]

Zoo's problem is that all it's creatures have trouble with Walls. T1 Steel Wall into T2 Wall of Earth into T3 Wall of Stone is pretty much GG.

You forgot Fog Bank.

Also, inb4 Tombstalker costs 6BB.

[Richard Cheese]

You forgot Fog Bank.

Also, inb4 Tombstalker costs 6BB.

Fog Bank is easily dealt with by burn though. Wall of Stone basically has to get Pathed, and god forbid someone's running Wall of Denial. Luckily, Blue/White just isn't a very popular color combination, due to being largely underpowered outside of said wall.

[Koby]

Spellstutter Sprites
Scryb Ranger
Aven Mindcensor
Squadron Hawk

Faerie Rogue tokens (Bitterblossom)
Elspeth, Knight-Errant's 2nd ability
Sphinx of the Steel Wind (via Reanimate)
Iona, Shield of Emeria (via Reanimate)
Angel of Despair (via Reanimate)

Narcomoeba

[Leftconsin]

Off topic: Any wall has to somehow be better than Maze of Ith.
On topic: I feel Trygon Predator needed a mention.

[trivial_matters]

Spellstutter Sprites
Scryb Ranger
Aven Mindcensor
Squadron Hawk

Faerie Rogue tokens (Bitterblossom)
Elspeth, Knight-Errant's 2nd ability
Sphinx of the Steel Wind (via Reanimate)
Iona, Shield of Emeria (via Reanimate)
Angel of Despair (via Reanimate)

Narcomoeba

Tarmogoyf. With Wonder in the 'yard and and island in play.

Most efficient flier for two mana you can get.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Pride of the Clouds
Stonecloaker
Gilded Drake

[GGoober]

Ok, I guess out of all the suggestions, Tombstalker, Delver, Vendilion Cliques do stand out stronger than the rest eh? :P I'm particularly looking for flyers for a tempo shell. I was testing Spellstutter Sprites with Cliques last night with a friend. Sprites are awesome but they really suck at beating. I was also playing Bitterblossom (no one mentioned this :P) but it was just too slow.

I think so far the most mana efficient beaters that fly (for a tempo shell) without too much drawbacks are Delver, Tombstalker (requires you to play black) and Vendilion Clique. I want to get down to testing Serendib Efreet, probably in a UG shell with Hierarchs (4/5 flying beating on turn 3!!) although Hierarch into Clique on turn 2 is already a sicker play :P

[Draener]

Hierarch into flickerwisp targeting one of your lands is also pretty sick. Especially if said land is a wasteland.

[Octopusman]

What about thopters?
[edit]

Also, I feel that some of the cards listed are not good flyers in Legacy but that's usually how these things go.
I've wanted to forecast pride of the clouds with a standstill out but never got around to it.

I like Serra Avenger and, if nothing else, she's a great topic of conversation. Her viability is constantly in flux. It seems like one of those cards that people either swear by or is cut from the list pretty quickly.

It's nice someone mentioned Nighthawk.
I wish Serendib Efreet was still good but unfortunately, like Mystic Enforcer, he has become somewhat outclassed.

I would want to mention cloud of faeries but again... not really played.

[TsumiBand]

Ascension.dec makes Serra Ascendant an okay flyer ^^;;

[dahcmai]

I've actually always wondered why no one seems to like Mistbind Clique. Especially, if you are already playing things that can use it properly like Bitterblossom and Spellstutters. The thing was a beating in standard and is a huge flyer in Legacy with a fairly useful side effect.

I'm also a fan of Glen Elandra Archmage. That card is just stupid mean. Crappy attacker, but who cares when it can cripple people. Always seems to be only good as a two of though.

Baneslayer Angel is surprisingly playable even at 5. Crap color though for it.

There's really not much out there for flyers with a decent casting cost to be able to use in a tempo style deck. That's half the reason the ones already mentioned are so good.

[Parax]

Vexing Sphinx i believe is something that is underplayed and oddly enough is only played in U/w Tempo. If you sit back and really think about it, its pretty good.

Lets examine!

A 4/4 flier for 3 is already under the normal curve.

Letting it die with:
1 age counter (not paying the upkeep) you basically had a 4/4 wall out for a turn, and stopped an attack for the turn, you draw a card, and didn't lose anything.
2 age counter (you only discarded 1 card) You probably attacked for 4 flying, got rid of some chaff and netted 2 cards.
3 age counters (you discardded 1 card turn 1, and 2 cards turn 2) You basically just "brainstormed" albeit a little weaker, but you traded in your weak cards for the chance of getting 3 better cards. Ontop of that you had 2 turns to attack.

Honestly i don't see going past 3 age counters on the Sphinx as trading 6 cards for 4 cards (who'd really have 6 cards to waste) isn't really feasable.

[Iron Buddha]

Don't forget Bitterblossom.

[Angelfire]

Trygon Predator. Totally underrated.

Baneslayer Angel and Hypnotic Spector are pretty solid.

I am also a big fan of Aven Mindcensor and Spell Stutter Sprite.

[sco0ter]

I always like Somber Hoverguard in Affinity.


Aven Mimeomancer
Ebon Drake
Esperzoa
Foul Spirit
Illusionary Servant
Jenara, Asura of War
Necrogen Scudder
Oona's Prowler

[Nessaja]

Geist of Saint Thraft
Skaab Ruinator

Look playable.

[HAVE HEART]

Did I just step into 2003?

You mean B.T. Before Tarmogoyf (i.e. early 2007).

[JustPAT4]

Skittering Skirge could be decent in a creature-light tempo deck alongside Delver.

[Justin]

One sad thing that I've thought about while reading this thread, is that Dragons are absent from the discussion of good flyers. Dragons are arguably the most iconic flying creature in Magic. In the pre-Tarmogoyf days, some red-splashed Threshold decks played Fledgling Dragon. Sadly, I don't think that card comes close to being playable today. I suppose, there is also the option of Rakdos Pit Dragon for Dragon stompy (hence the name of the deck), but that's also pretty rare nowadays. Are there any other dragons that I'm not thinking of? It would be nice for Wizards to print a legacy-playable dragon and some point in the future.

[trivial_matters]

Sadly, I don't think there are any playable dragons you forgot to mention.

If I'm not mistaken Bogardan Hellkite saw play in Dream Halls when that deck was popular for a short while some time ago, but that's the only dragon apart from Rakdos Pit Dragon that has been used in Legacy in the last few years. In Dream Halls' case you can hardly call it proper use anyway, since he's just a combo piece in that deck.

[ThoSha]

No love for Covetous Dragon and Moltensteel Dragon? They are both playable in Dragon Stompy, but the latter might be the better choice these days.

[Esper3k]

To be fair, there aren't many playable Angels and Demons either.

Iona when Survival was around and whatever ones Reanimator uses these days.

[DragoFireheart]

No love for Covetous Dragon and Moltensteel Dragon? They are both playable in Dragon Stompy, but the latter might be the better choice these days.

- Too many issues with Moltensteel dragon. Dies to quite a bit of removal.

[TsumiBand]

Actually this whole thread kind of gives me pause, because I'm starting to really wonder how much evasion really matters.

Even just playing unblockable dudes only removes one line of play from the equation for the opponent (blocking). SFM gives guys evasion in the form of protection, which also happens to take removal spells out of the equation for the opponent. Protection = evasion + no removal, ergo protection > removal?

I mean I can see how a deck that combos a buncha guys into play would maybe want Wonder in the grave, so that comboing out is actually a win; no sense in losing a bunch of ETW Goblins to a random chump block + Firestorm and then losing the game because you can't combo out again.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, it just seems like in a metagame where good decks are quite easily assembling Voltron with SFM + good equips, it seems like looking for decent dudes with flying/shadow/landwalk/etc is sort of an exercise in redundancy?