Mono Black Beat Down

[baghdadbob]

With the printing of the new Liliana and Phyrexian Obliterator I thought that maybe mono black had a shot in the meta again. This deck has some very impressive turn 1 and 2 plays that make it really fun to play.
-The classic turn one 'seize into hymn.
-Turn 1 Marit Lage.
-Turn 1 Liliana of the Veil.
-Turn 1 Phyrexian Obliterator.
-Turn 1 Lich.
-Turn 1 'seize into Bob.
This deck has good matchups against combo and against control, average games against aggro control, and pretty bad games against aggro.

Speed
4x Mox Diamond
2x Chrome Mox
4x Dark Ritual
Discard
4x Hymn
4x Thoughtseize
Creatures
4x Dark Confidant
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Phylactery Lich
4x Vampire Hexmage
Planeswalkers
2x Liliana Of The Veil
Creature Removal
2x Diabolic Edict
2x Go For The Throat
Lands
4x Dark Depths
4x Vault Of Whispers
8x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta

S/b
2x Perish
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Duress
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Go For The Throat
1x Inquisition Of Kozilek

What do you guys think the future (if there is one) for monoblack aggro is?

[Smea.gol.lum]

Hehe, your list makes me wanna break Phylactery Lich again.

However, I think that there aren't enough good artifacts to support it.
Once you've played Lich with Vault of Whispers in play, 1 Wasteland is enough to ruin your day.
I would play Sensei's Divining Top to support Lich better and to improve your topdecks.

You should play more lands: Mox Diamond requires more lands and Dark Depths doesn't even produce mana.

Cut the Edicts and play 4 Liliana, she's really good and costs only 1 mana more which shouldn't be a big problem with your many accelerants.

Good luck!

[Esper3k]

Yeah I've always wanted to break Phylactery Lich as well, but sadly I could never make it work. At best, you get his phylactery on something like a Darksteel Citadel, but then he gets plowed/pathed anyways and you're sad.

Instead of Diabolic Edict you should run that new BB edict instead since you're running mono black anyways.

[Esper3k]

Oh yeah since you're playing DD, you should play a couple Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth as well.

[Justin]

I like monoblack a lot, but there are some problems with your list, some of which have been pointed out. You certainly need more lands, considering that your mana curve goes up to four. As cools as Marit Lage is, it doesn't belong in this deck unless you have a reliable way to dig for it. Dark Depts is typically played alongside cards like Knight of the Reliquary (to fetch it) or decks with lots of cantrips and fetchlands. I recommend replacing Dark Depths with another huge black beater, such as Tombstalker or Abyssal Persecutor.

I also like the idea of including Sensei's Divining Top. I understand that the card doesn't fit directly into the speed theme of the deck, but it has great synergy with Confidant and Lich. You should also add a couple more fetches if you play top to make it better, which would also make Tombstalker a stronger card.

[baghdadbob]

Urborg is probably a good idea thanks. I also like top in this list i'm just not sure what I would drop for it. As far as removing Depths I really really don't want to. I have played him turn 1 so many times now and won the game because of it. He races aggro decks which is one of my biggest weaknesses, and he also gives me reason to run hexmage who can deal with a resolved jaces which mono black has problems doing. I really don't believe I need to run too many more lands I have 20 with 6 mox and 4 rituals. I'm sure if you guys playtested the deck you would see that the mana base is pretty solid. So for sure I want to run top, I just have no idea what to take out to put it in.

[Richard Cheese]

Maybe try a 3/3 split of moxen or 4 Chrome/2 Diamond? Or leave it alone if it really is working well.

Is your aggro matchup really that bad with Obliterator? Maybe try Gatekeepers instead of Lich, or maybe drop 2 Lich for the extra Lilianas (Liliani?)

[Grollub]

A point worth noting about Chrome Mox is you can play it without imprinting to give the Lich something to target in a pinch.

[baghdadbob]

This is very true I think I may need to go to the 3/3 split and took out an obliterator in order to fit in 2 tops and a misers reanimate. Anyone have any other interpretations of the deck that they find particularly good at early game stealing?

[Justin]

I would go for a 4/2 split in favor of Chrome Mox or possibly cut Mox Diamond altogether. According to your list, Chrome Mox has 34 black spell which it can imprint, while Mox Diamond has only 20 lands to pitch to it. Chrome Mox will be more consistant, and as was noted, you can play it without pitching anything to it without sacrificing it if you need to. I've found that Mox Diamond typically works best in decks that run well over 20 lands, such as Aggro Loam.

[Cryus]

I also made a version of this deck and i like to play it from time to time.

This is my version, maybe it helps you a bit:

Lands: 17

Ancient Tomb x4
Urborg, tomb of Yawgmoth x 1
Vault of Whispers x 4
Swamp x 8

Creatures: 20

Phyrexian Obliterator x4
Gatekeeper of Malakir x4
Phylactery Lich x 4
Phyrexian Metamorph x4
Bloodgift Demon x 4

Mana: 16
Chrome Mox x 4
Lotus Petal x 4
Dark Ritual x 4
Cabal Ritual x 4

Discard: 7
Hymn to Tourach x4
Thoughtseize x 3 (or Duress)

[Mystical_Jackass]

I dunno, at that point why wouldn't you just play Affinity into Lich, with Mox Opal and Springleaf Drum, etc. ?

[necrowil]

This is my version of the Phylactery Lich deck supported by 15 artifacts. Personally, I don't artifact lands are good in this deck as they leave you vulnerable to Energy Flux. Chrome Mox is card disadvantage so, just play with the good artifacts.

Phylactery Lich
13 swamp
4 phyrexian tower
4 wasteland
4 dark ritual
4 cursed scroll
4 bitterblossom
3 umezawa’s jitte
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
4 dauthi horror
4 dauthi slayer
4 bloodghast
4 phylactery lich

One thing I would like to start discussing Hatred as it falls into the Mono Black Aggro format as well. As discussed on the Established Decks - Suicide Black thread, most feel Hatred has no place in the current format. Perhaps people are right, but I feel anything that has the potential to kill your opponent on Turn 2 is worth a look. What do you guys think?

My current version of the deck looks like this.

14 swamp
4 phyrexian tower
4 wasteland
4 dark ritual
4 cursed scroll
4 bitterblossom
3 umezawa’s jitte
3 hatred
4 signal pest
4 vault skirge
4 dauthi horror
4 dauthi slayer
4 bloodghast

I run 3 Perish, 4 Cabal Therapy and 4 Extirpate in the sideboard currently. Honestly, I ton't think the deck wants discard main deck. Cabal Therapy is very strong to bring in vs control decks as well Extirpate. Both allow you to see your opponents hand for free before casting Hatred. With Extirpate you can cast it at the end of your opponents turn and kill them on your turn if they have nothing. The zombies have been omitted as one problem with them is they do not have evasion.

Also, larger creatures then 2cc have been omitted as they seem to slow the deck down. This includes, Gatekeeper of Malakir, Phylactery Lich, Phyrexian Negator, Phyrexian Obliterator, Hypnotic Specter and Vampire Nighthawk. So far the deck does not seem to need larger creatures. 20 plus 4 Bitterblossom seems more then enough.

Thoughts?

[Sims]

Just throwing this out there since I played and did well with it in a small local gathering this weekend, I played a mono-black beat down deck to a first place finish, trampling some elves and stoneblade on the way.


lands-
22x swamp

beats-
4x bloodghast
4x gatekeeper of malakir
4x vampire nighthawk
3x obliterator
2x Lashwrithe (kind of a creature)

removal//
2x dismember
4x innocent blood
4x go for the throat

discard//
4x duress
4x hymn

ownage//
3x Liliana of the veil

Highlight of the night was definitely killing a Jace the Mindsculptor against Stoneblade with Liliana.

[baghdadbob]

I have spent alot of time thinking/playing with this deck and this is the newest list.


4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Mox Diamond
4 Dark Depths
2 Reanimate
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacombs
10 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Duress
4 Go for the Throat
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

The deck plays very similar to a combo deck. Without any weakness at all to combo/reanimator/dredge. The only part of the deck that are still up to scrutiny to me are the cabal therapy/bitterblossom combo. This combo insures a maze of ith/discard outlet, at the cost of losing hardcore to goblins. I think that in this point of the meta as described by Di the deck/s that are most well positioned are combo decks. My deck beat combo most of the time and loses generally to fast swarming decks and counterbalance with the perfect draw. Could this deck be a deck to beat? I think so and would appreciate help on making it the best it could be.

[heroicraptor]

Mox Diamond with only 18 land seems like a bad idea.

Edit: I missed the two Urborgs, but still, IMO 20 is a bit iffy.

[baghdadbob]

20 lands, plus 4 mox diamond, plus 4 dark ritual, and a draw engine from Bob is plenty. Next question?

[Oiolosse]

20 lands is too few for Mox Diamond, really. You want at the very very least 22 lands.

[Hanni]

It's not a matter of 4 Mox being okay with 18 lands because you also run Ritual, it's a matter of 4 Mox being bad with 18 lands. Dark Ritual has no effect on whether or not 18 lands is enough for Mox Diamond, which it is not.

Anyway, if you're running Vault of Whispers and 6 Moxes already (and some number of either Skirge and/or Top), what about Mox Opals? I would think those would offer more overall synergy for the deck than Dark Ritual.

[baghdadbob]

It's not a matter of 4 Mox being okay with 18 lands because you also run Ritual, it's a matter of 4 Mox being bad with 18 lands. Dark Ritual has no effect on whether or not 18 lands is enough for Mox Diamond, which it is not.

Anyway, if you're running Vault of Whispers and 6 Moxes already (and some number of either Skirge and/or Top), what about Mox Opals? I would think those would offer more overall synergy for the deck than Dark Ritual.

I'm not running Vault of Whispers, 18 lands, or 6 moxen anymore dog. I have a new list that I took to a small tourney, it is listed above. I will write a tournament report and a primer when I get a chance. Needless to say the only thing I found underwhelming was Bitterblossom. Although it did win me several games performing as a constant maze of ith, and also giving me fodder for several cabal therapies, that insured I beat the shit out of storm two times. It did however kill me once. I think Bob plus Seize plus Blossom is too much. Although i'm not sure what I would replace it with. Maybe something with a bit more bite. Any suggestions?

Edit:

I ended up taking out the Blossoms. Adding an addition swamp. Adding maindeck removal in the form of Go For The Nuts. Turing cabal therapy into inquisition.

[Zupponn]

I played against someone with this deck (or something similar) while I was testing my Dragon Stompy list on MTGO. I was surprised by how fast it could combo out with Hexmage and Depths. I gave it some trouble with my Moon effects though.

[baghdadbob]

I played against someone with this deck (or something similar) while I was testing my Dragon Stompy list on MTGO. I was surprised by how fast it could combo out with Hexmage and Depths. I gave it some trouble with my Moon effects though.

That may have been me sir. Yes this deck can combo off quite fast. The 2x reanimators can outta no where steal games (and opponents creatures). This happens often opening hand of lets say... Ritual, Seize, Obliterator, 2 Land, Confidant, Reanimate. Turn 1 seize and take their plow, leaving them with duders, land, and force. You can either a) run obliterator (which they basically have to force) out essentially a hymn for force fodder and then reanimate obliterator and play bob next turn. This deck has many choices you can make. Like I said before you can run it as a semi combo deck. You can get alot of nutty hands like the one described above. These are an example of some good starts you USUALLY get...

Ritual-Seize-Hymn
Ritual-Lilliana
Land- Mox- Hymn
Ritual- Bob- Seize
Mox- Depths- Ritual- Seize- Hexmage- Marit Leige (The stone cold nuts)
Land- Mox- Bob

Also twice so far against reanimator I have seized and reanimated their jin gitaxias on turn one. It was pretty epic.

When I was running the deck with 6 moxes and phalactry lich there were alot more nutty plays, and I do fluctuate between that original list and my newest one with more disrupt/control. I like them both.

[Sanity_Cleaver]

I have spent alot of time thinking/playing with this deck and this is the newest list.


4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Mox Diamond
4 Dark Depths
2 Reanimate
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacombs
10 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Duress
4 Go for the Throat
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

The deck plays very similar to a combo deck. Without any weakness at all to combo/reanimator/dredge. The only part of the deck that are still up to scrutiny to me are the cabal therapy/bitterblossom combo. This combo insures a maze of ith/discard outlet, at the cost of losing hardcore to goblins. I think that in this point of the meta as described by Di the deck/s that are most well positioned are combo decks. My deck beat combo most of the time and loses generally to fast swarming decks and counterbalance with the perfect draw. Could this deck be a deck to beat? I think so and would appreciate help on making it the best it could be.

I'm just throwing this out there, as I had the crazy idea last night, but if you're losing to swarmy decks and already have a reanimator game plan with plenty of acceleration, why not give a few sideboard slots to Massacre Wurm?

Could be the biggest LoL ever :laugh:

[Freggle]

Here is my interpretation of a mostly black Dark Depths deck (I love the combo):


Here is the B/g list (the g can be easily cut):

4 Bloodghast
4 Smallpox
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Sign in Blood
3 Tombstalker
3 Diabolic Edict
4 Innocent Blood
2 Life From the Loam
3 Dark Depths
2 Darkblast
4 Cabal Therapy

2 Wasteland
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
13 Swamp

Edit: I guess some explanations would be good. The g give you waste lock in loam, and a good way to find Dark Depths.

Smallpox and Blooghast go very well together as well as bloodghast / cabal therapy.

It ultimately has a different philosophy though. When designing I felt that blacks strength isn't that it can be a glass cannon and go off early I felt it can dominate the board and hands.

Sacrifice Effects are very powerful.

I think Smallpox is one of blacks if not blacks strongest card when built around. i.e. running more lands, and using thing that abuse the yard so the discard doesn't hurt it helps. It can be utterly crippling to many aggro decks out there.

I ran it in place of Hymn because Hymn is so hit or miss, I know it's always a 2 for 1 but late game it looses more value for me. I like how Smallpox always hits a land.

At any rate for the list you post I'd most definitely change your exhumes to Animate Dead. You run discard. Sometimes it's nice to just animate someone else's gyof.

Keep it up I'd love to see DD/Hexmage get more respect. It's good.

[baghdadbob]

I'm just throwing this out there, as I had the crazy idea last night, but if you're losing to swarmy decks and already have a reanimator game plan with plenty of acceleration, why not give a few sideboard slots to Massacre Wurm?

Could be the biggest LoL ever :laugh:

Massacre wurm is very tasty and I would even go so for as to consider it as a 1 of in the s/b. It seems like a sexy top deck early/mid game against a lot of the aggro/aggro control decks. I am thinking particularly about Merfolk, Maverick, and Gobbos (not that this deck still sees much play). It can also be an answer to belcher and storm when they decide to empty the warrens.