Thoughtseize's conditional selection...

[T-101]

Greetings Legacyfolk, it's been a while.

Anywho, my question is about how exactly Thoughtseize works, specifically when cast targeting a player with Obstinate Baloth in hand, or when Diverted.

Now from what I know, Cranial Extraction/other search effects with conditions (ie - Tutors that are not Demonic) still have a "fail to find" option. This means I can Cranial for Force of Will, and noticing that there are no other instants in the yard to pump my 'Goyf, I can strategically fail to find the one in my opponent's yard.

Since Thoughtseize has a condition (nonland), can I cast it targeting my opponent, and he reveals Forest, Obstinate Baloth, and then I fail to find a card that meets the condition?

What about if my opponent Diverts it target me. Do I HAVE to choose a card, or can I just reveal, and fail to find a card that meets Thoughtseize's condition?

[death]

There's a big difference between those two cards. One gives you the option to name a card, the other does not. If Thoughtseize gets diverted to you, you have to reveal your hand then you choose a nonland card. You cannot fail to find as long as there is a legal option.

[Malchar]

I think that the difference is when you search a hidden zone (library), you don't have to find because there's no way to prove no card exists without revealing all the cards in the hidden zone. Since thoughtseize and most other modern discard spells reveal the hand, you must choose something if able.

[MWR]

I agree that the difference is about hidden zones and public, and does not have anything to do with "name a card". But this also means that with Cranial Extraction you cannot fail to find the named card in graveyard, can you? Maybe somebody really competent can confirm this :smile:

[DerFern]

I agree that the difference is about hidden zones and public, and does not have anything to do with "name a card". But this also means that with Cranial Extraction you cannot fail to find the named card in graveyard, can you? Maybe somebody really competent can confirm this :smile:

looking here:

701.14b If a player is searching a hidden zone for cards with a stated quality, such as a card with a certain card type or color, that player isn’t required to find some or all of those cards even if they’re present in that zone.
Example: Splinter says “Exile target artifact. Search its controller’s graveyard, hand, and library for all cards with the same name as that artifact and exile them. That player then shuffles his or her library.” A player casts Splinter targeting Howling Mine (an artifact). Howling Mine’s controller has another Howling Mine in her graveyard and two more in her library. Splinter’s controller must find the Howling Mine in the
graveyard, but may choose to find zero, one, or two of the Howling Mines in the library.

the example is pretty much exactly what you asked for...

[damionblackgear]

To sum that up, you can't fail to find from public zones.

[JustPAT4]

To sum that up, you can't fail to find from public zones.

And therefore, if it's successfully diverted or misdirected, thoughtsiezes caster must make a legal choice if one exists.