Damia, Sage of Dredge

[Aggro_zombies]

Pics! 22-xii-2012 (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?4607-DO-NOT-TRY-TO-SELL-IN-HERE-Pimp-Legacy-Decks&p=692282&viewfull=1#post692282)

General: Damia, Sage of Stone

Shambling Shell
Life from the Loam
Golgari Thug
Stinkweed Imp
Golgari Grave-Troll

Viridian Zealot
Fleshbag Marauder
Sylvok Replica
Slum Reaper
Shriekmaw
Acidic Slime
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Attrition
Maelstrom Pulse
Pernicious Deed
Beast Within
Damnation
Grave Pact

Drowned Rusalka
Mulldrifter
Skullclamp
Sylvan Library
Fauna Shaman
Trinket Mage
Entomb
Vampiric Tutor
Demonic Tutor
Survival of the Fittest
Birthing Pod

Eternal Witness
Archaeomancer
Genesis
Havengul Lich
Tortured Existence
Oversold Cemetery
Regrowth
Dread Return

Deathrite Shaman
Korozda Guildmage
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Wonder
Elixir of Immortality
Golgari Germination

Sadistic Hypnotist
Mind Twist
Mind Shatter
Mind Slash

Phantasmal Image
Splinterfright
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Phyrexian Metamorph
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
Triskelion
Worm Harvest

Birds of Paradise
Hermit Druid
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Viridian Emissary
Yavimaya Elder
Solemn Simulacrum
Sol Ring
Chromatic Lantern

6 Forest
2 Island
5 Swamp
Evolving Wilds
Terramorphic Expanse
Polluted Delta
Verdant Catacombs
Misty Rainforest
Underground Sea
Bayou
Tropical Island
Watery Grave
Overgrown Tomb
Breeding Pool
Dimir Aqueduct
Golgari Rot Farm
Simic Growth Chamber
Command Tower
Tranquil Thicket
Lonely Sandbar
Barren Moor
Dryad Arbor
Cephalid Coliseum
Bojuka Bog
Bazaar of Baghdad
Dust Bowl
Volrath's Stronghold

Current as of 17-iii-2013

I've been working on this deck for over two years now, and it's by far my favorite EDH deck. The goal was to make a deck that played as closely to a Legacy dredge deck as possible in EDH; after a long journey and a lot of learning experiences (Bridge from Below is not a good card in EDH? Whoda thunk it), I've ended up here.

Some notes on the deck:

I realize that a turbo dredge deck, that mills itself every turn with reckless abandon, exists in EDH. That deck is almost certainly Karador, Ghost Chieftain. The issue for this deck is that it is hard - or rather, pointless - to start milling without a way to recur stuff already in play. Karador is one such outlet that you will basically always have, so that deck can be much more all-in. That said, dredge decks like that tend to be super soft to random Bojuka Bogs and Tormod's Crypts, particularly late in the game when your graveyard is full.
I prefer Damia to Mimeoplasm because Damia lends herself better to a grinding control strategy, which I like. The issue with Mimeoplasm is that this deck very rarely wants to exile its own cards and I don't want to rely on my opponents to make my general work.
This deck does not have a ton of use for countermagic or other on-color EDH staples. You get plenty of value out of being able to make the same plays over and over and over and over and over and over and...

[Beware]

Is this meant to be played 1v1 or Multiplayer? You lack a lot of the best mana rocks and I definitely feel that's what makes a deck like this tick. You are also missing some pretty rudimentary additions like Vampiric Tutor and Lim-Dul's Vault.

I also have a Damia Dredge deck that I built when Damia was spoiled. It seems I take a very different route, going for a more Reanimator style as opposed to aggro:

Commander

1x Damia, Sage of Stone

Land (35)

2x Forest
2x Island
2x Swamp
1x Dakmor Salvage
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Breeding Pool
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Dimir Aqueduct
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Barren Moor
1x Lonely Sandbar
1x Polluted Delta
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Cephalid Coliseum
1x Dust Bowl
1x High Market
1x Phyrexian Tower
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Darkslick Shores
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Woodland Cemetery
1x Nephalia Drownyard

Instant (12)

1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Trickbind
1x Voidslime
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Stifle
1x Entomb
1x Brainstorm
1x Forbid
1x Intuition
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Visions of Beyond

Enchantment (5)

1x Animate Dead
1x Phyrexian Arena
1x Diabolic Servitude
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Necromancy

Sorcery (14)

1x Dread Return
1x Life from the Loam
1x Stitch Together
1x Breakthrough
1x Deep Analysis
1x Buried Alive
1x Careful Study
1x Victimize
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Living Death
1x Reanimate
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Runic Repetition
1x Creeping Renaissance

Artifact (10)

1x Simic Signet
1x Dimir Signet
1x Golgari Signet
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Skullclamp
1x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Grimoire of the Dead

Planeswalker (2)

1x Jace, Memory Adept
1x Liliana of the Veil

Creature (21)

1x Riftsweeper
1x Magus of the Bazaar
1x Golgari Grave-Troll
1x Stinkweed Imp
1x Eternal Witness
1x Putrid Imp
1x Millikin
1x Hermit Druid
1x Ashen Ghoul
1x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Lord of Extinction
1x Bloodghast
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Primeval Titan
1x Necrotic Ooze
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x The Mimeoplasm
1x Jace's Archivist
1x Mirror-Mad Phantasm
1x Laboratory Maniac

[Aggro_zombies]

This is meant for multiplayer. It is not as good as it could be because then it would draw too much hate. As it stands, people usually gang up on the deck in an average multiplayer game.

Actually, the "best" dredge deck is probably Jund-colored Hermit Druid with Necrotic Ooze, Devoted Druid, Morselhoarder, and Shivan Hellkite to kill everyone at once on turn 2-3. I would build that deck to run through 4-man pods at GP side events or something, but it's a bit excessive for a local metagame with a generally low power level.

Also, one issue with mana rocks is that this deck really wants creatures (there are a variety of effects that want them as fuel or count them in graveyards), and mana rocks aren't creatures. That means they would have to take spell slots, and those are really tight. I had fewer creatures in the past, but I feel like ratio of creatures to non-creatures is good right now.

[Davran]

Actually, the "best" dredge deck is probably Jund-colored Hermit Druid with Necrotic Ooze, Devoted Druid, Morselhoarder, and Shivan Hellkite to kill everyone at once on turn 2-3. I would build that deck to run through 4-man pods at GP side events or something, but it's a bit excessive for a local metagame with a generally low power level.

This makes the Johnny in me smile...I assume you'd run something like Adun Oakenshield at the helm?

[Aggro_zombies]

This makes the Johnny in me smile...I assume you'd run something like Adun Oakenshield at the helm?
Yeah, probably. Even with all the tutoring power you would have, the games can still go long, and Adun is good for grinding out advantage.

That said, I really wish Glint-Eye Nephilim was legal as a general. In blue you get Narcomeoba, Laboratory Maniac, draw, and counters. In the Jund build you need to run a bunch of crappy guys to reliably flashback Dread Return (like Dregscape Zombie and Blooghast) and you only have discard to make sure the DR will resolve. I guess you could go five-color, but meh. There's little benefit to white in an all-in strategy like this.

[Davran]

Yeah, it's too bad the 4 color cycle isn't legendary...I think they open up some interesting deck ideas (other than dredge). Here's hoping R&D delivers 4 color legends sooner rather than later.

Back on topic, it does seem like blue gives more benefit in terms of enablers for this sort of strategy...even if I've been itching to break Necrotic Ooze since it was spoiled.

What about Forbidden Alchemy as a sometimes way to grab that Oversold Cemetery or one of your Regrowth effects? The flashback is a nice bonus too even if it's pretty expensive, and it works out pretty well after you Dread Return a Laboratory Maniac. Worst case it grabs you a land and you throw three creatures in your yard.

[Aggro_zombies]

One thing I've found from practice is that I really dislike flashback in this deck. The cards themselves are usually a touch more expensive on one or the other end of the spell (either cmc or flashback) for one thing. However, the biggest issue is that this deck plays a lot like a control deck: when you're operating at or near full power, there is nothing you can do that you can't do over and over and over and over and over and...you don't want to flash back your spells unless it's an emergency or you're about to win because you get more value out of just recurring and recasting them.

I have been toying with a Karador deck that is more all-in than this deck, and that build gets more mileage out of flashback spells because it wants to live out of its graveyard to a greater extent than this deck. It's actually kind of amusing because I feel like the deck wants Riftsweeper and Pull from Eternity so that you can flash back a card, get it again, and just keep operating out of your graveyard. I'm not sure how good such a deck would be, and experience has taught me that a deck that committed to the graveyard gets seriously hurt by wayward Crypts and Bojuka Bogs, but I might build it. It looks like fun.

[Davran]

You could always run cards like Leyline of Sanctity or Witchbane Orb if you're really worried about Bog/Crypt/Wheel of Sun and Moon/Spellbomb...though it doesn't really do anything against Relic.

Or, there's always True Believer as a potential reanimation target.

[Aggro_zombies]

You could always run cards like Leyline of Sanctity or Witchbane Orb if you're really worried about Bog/Crypt/Wheel of Sun and Moon/Spellbomb...though it doesn't really do anything against Relic.

Or, there's always True Believer as a potential reanimation target.
True Believer is a little bit more palatable than the other options you listed, largely because they don't do nearly as much as I would like them to. I guess there are a lot of targeted player effects in EDH, but meh.

There's also Spirit of the Hearth at six, and he's actually a decent beater. Solitary Confinement also seems fine in a Karador deck. Hmm...

[Davran]

True Believer is a little bit more palatable than the other options you listed, largely because they don't do nearly as much as I would like them to. I guess there are a lot of targeted player effects in EDH, but meh.

There's also Spirit of the Hearth at six, and he's actually a decent beater. Solitary Confinement also seems fine in a Karador deck. Hmm...

I always forget about Spirit. Solitary Confinement seems ok if you can get Necropotence or something online - the discard fits the whole "dredge" style...but you'd need some way to draw cards to take it over the top unless you go all in on Hermit Druid or something.

[Aggro_zombies]

I always forget about Spirit. Solitary Confinement seems ok if you can get Necropotence or something online - the discard fits the whole "dredge" style...but you'd need some way to draw cards to take it over the top unless you go all in on Hermit Druid or something.
Well, Karador would likely run Bloodgift Demon, Phyrexian Arena, Life from the Loam and cycling lands, and possibly one-shot things like Harmonize, so I don't think supporting Confinement is an issue.

I don't Necropotence in dredge strategies because it forces you to exile cards you would discard, which makes it too hard to get dredged cards back into the graveyard.

[Davran]

Well, Karador would likely run Bloodgift Demon, Phyrexian Arena, Life from the Loam and cycling lands, and possibly one-shot things like Harmonize, so I don't think supporting Confinement is an issue.

I don't Necropotence in dredge strategies because it forces you to exile cards you would discard, which makes it too hard to get dredged cards back into the graveyard.

Sounds like the draw engine in my Glissa deck. Something to keep in mind is that sometimes the cycling lands coming into play tapped is a big tempo hit in the early game when your hand is otherwise fantastic and you need the mana more than the card. I run into it often enough on just the 4 B/G lands, so I imagine it will come up even more with 6 (or 7 if you decide to run the colorless one). Once it's up and running though, it's nothing short of amazing...especially if you can get a Strip Mine or Wasteland in the mix to keep your opponents honest. I've actually been considering dropping the Saga ones recently, but haven't pulled the trigger.

As for Necro, I ran out and picked up one of those Deckmaster foils only to cut it from my deck 3 weeks later. Too many Mindslavers running around, and it tends to paint a huge bulls eye on your back...can't imagine why...

I like where this discussion is headed. Seems like Innistrad gave the deck a little gift in Unburial Rights. Granted, there's much better (and cheaper) reanimation out there, but the flashback is certainly nice.

[Aggro_zombies]

Sounds like the draw engine in my Glissa deck. Something to keep in mind is that sometimes the cycling lands coming into play tapped is a big tempo hit in the early game when your hand is otherwise fantastic and you need the mana more than the card. I run into it often enough on just the 4 B/G lands, so I imagine it will come up even more with 6 (or 7 if you decide to run the colorless one). Once it's up and running though, it's nothing short of amazing...especially if you can get a Strip Mine or Wasteland in the mix to keep your opponents honest. I've actually been considering dropping the Saga ones recently, but haven't pulled the trigger.

As for Necro, I ran out and picked up one of those Deckmaster foils only to cut it from my deck 3 weeks later. Too many Mindslavers running around, and it tends to paint a huge bulls eye on your back...can't imagine why...

I like where this discussion is headed. Seems like Innistrad gave the deck a little gift in Unburial Rights. Granted, there's much better (and cheaper) reanimation out there, but the flashback is certainly nice.
Well, Karador is interesting. Here's how the games with Damia usually play out:

1) Set up an early defense with ramp spells and utility dorks. Build to five to six mana.
2) Get some sort of way to recur stuff and start dredging.
3) Assemble a ridiculous late game and crush.

Moving from #1 to #2 is difficult, in part because the boundary between them is ill-defined and in part because you really need at least a Regrowth in hand before you start dredging; stuff in the graveyard doesn't get you anywhere if you can't get any of it out. Karador lets you make this transition easily because he is himself a way to get stuff back, he's easy to cast, and you will almost always have him.

However, the downside is that BGW is actually bad at getting non-permanent cards out of graveyards while blue has Mnemonic Wall, Call to Mind and a few others that allow you to really get the most out of your graveyard. I mean, yeah, Karador also has Regrowth and Nostalgic Dreams and the rest, but they don't recur themselves and so are completely useless if you mill them without a Witness. That, combined with better draw, is why I stick with blue over white.

That's why I think Karador will want flashback cards, Pull from Eternity, and Riftsweeper, while Damia really doesn't. You don't have to recur flashback spells and you're less concerned with exiling them because it's hard for you to really abuse them through repeated casting in the first place. I would want to start Unburial Rites, Spider Spawning, Dread Return, Creeping Renaissance, Roar of the Wurm, and test out Moment's Peace, Grizzly Fate, Ray of Revelation, and Divine Reckoning.

[Davran]

Well, Karador is interesting. Here's how the games with Damia usually play out:

1) Set up an early defense with ramp spells and utility dorks. Build to five to six mana.
2) Get some sort of way to recur stuff and start dredging.
3) Assemble a ridiculous late game and crush.

Moving from #1 to #2 is difficult, in part because the boundary between them is ill-defined and in part because you really need at least a Regrowth in hand before you start dredging; stuff in the graveyard doesn't get you anywhere if you can't get any of it out. Karador lets you make this transition easily because he is himself a way to get stuff back, he's easy to cast, and you will almost always have him.

However, the downside is that BGW is actually bad at getting non-permanent cards out of graveyards while blue has Mnemonic Wall, Call to Mind and a few others that allow you to really get the most out of your graveyard. I mean, yeah, Karador also has Regrowth and Nostalgic Dreams and the rest, but they don't recur themselves and so are completely useless if you mill them without a Witness. That, combined with better draw, is why I stick with blue over white.

That's why I think Karador will want flashback cards, Pull from Eternity, and Riftsweeper, while Damia really doesn't. You don't have to recur flashback spells and you're less concerned with exiling them because it's hard for you to really abuse them through repeated casting in the first place. I would want to start Unburial Rites, Spider Spawning, Dread Return, Creeping Renaissance, Roar of the Wurm, and test out Moment's Peace, Grizzly Fate, Ray of Revelation, and Divine Reckoning.

The lack of blue does make it hard to get non-creature cards back. I mean, I guess there's always Yawgmoth's Will which is great right up until you dredge it off.

I definitely see where you're coming from - the way it stands right now blue is the better choice for consistency's sake. Who knows, maybe they'll flesh out the flashback suite in the next couple sets and print the tools we need to take this archetype over the top.

To get back on the blue train, what do you think about Forbidden Alchemy and Armored Skaab for the Damia version? In both cases they're a worse Golgari Thug, but it would give you a couple more "dredgers" if you feel that you need them. Also, Liliana of the Veil seems like a good fit here - it gives you another discard outlet for your dredgers and it can potentially slow your opponents down some.

[Aggro_zombies]

To get back on the blue train, what do you think about Forbidden Alchemy and Armored Skaab for the Damia version? In both cases they're a worse Golgari Thug, but it would give you a couple more "dredgers" if you feel that you need them.
I think they're too low-impact to add. Skaab is a Horned Turtle after it mills, which is just bleh, and I could never see wanting to reanimate it. Alchemy is so-so; I might consider it if it cost two, but at three it just feels really meh, even though (or perhaps despite) it has flashback.


Also, Liliana of the Veil seems like a good fit here - it gives you another discard outlet for your dredgers and it can potentially slow your opponents down some.
It seems like a card that has a very low battlefield life expectancy. The people who care about having to discard will go after her right away, and Cruel Edicts are not exactly hot stuff in multiplayer EDH. I could see the ultimate taking someone out of the game, but I can't see her regularly getting to that point without the stars really aligning. She might be better in Karador, which has more board control available to it, but I'm not sure about her here.

EDIT: Although, now that I think about it, she might be good in the midgame when people's hands are full of all kinds of the expensive, splashy garbage people tend to love in EDH. 1BB to make everyone discard one and fog someone is still a little suspect to me, but it might be worth it.

[Aggro_zombies]

DP because I've made some changes recently.

-Sensei's Divining Top, +Expedition Map

Top is great when you're not dredging and next to useless when you are; getting an extra dredge out of it before dredging it away is usually what happens. However, if I cut Top I have only two Trinket Mage targets. Granted, they're both really important (one is Sol Ring and the other is graveyard hate insurance), but I like a little more variety than that, so I'm going to try out Map. Aside from regular, color-producing lands, Map has good targets in Drownyard, Dust Bowl, Cephalid Coliseum, and Stronghold.

-Viridian Emissary, +Unearth

Emissary seemed like a neat idea at the time I added it because it was like a Tribe-Elder that I could sacrifice for more profit. The problem is, it's not like a Tribe-Elder at all: if people really think you need the land, they'll attack you with evasive guys, so you're forced to find some other way to cash in your Emissary. Unearth has a bunch of use: Hermit Druid, Fauna Shaman, Eternal Witness, Kira, and Splinterfright are all great targets, but most of your other utility guys are cheap and can be reanimated this way.

-Mirror-Mad Phantasm, +Keiga, the Tide Star

Man, I really wanted Phantasm to be good. Then I killed myself with it. Twice. So yeah...Phantasm has a relatively narrow range in time and how-many-cards-you-have-left where it's great and (mostly) safe to use, but after that you can do better with just dredging (more control) or Hermit Druid (you'll probably hit more cards on average). Phantasm being really random was the biggest letdown, although a five-power flying guy is nothing to sneeze at. That left me with two options: either I could add Skittles/Thornling to give my Necrotic Ooze haste and attempt to Ooze everyone else out at once, or I could swap Phantasm for a more reliable card. I chose the latter and will be trying out Keiga for a little bit: I've had my eye on her for a while and she's pretty good with my various sacrifice guys or fine as a beater alone.

-Terastodon, +Magus of the Abyss

One test for how much I like a creature is how often I reanimate it outside of situations where I absolutely need it and nothing else will do. For example, I reanimate Sheoldred often because she's very very good; I also reanimate Wurmcoil often because it stabilizes against ground attacks very well. But Terastodon...when I reanimate Terastodon, it's because I need to blow up three enchantments or artifacts controlled (usually) by different players and I need to do so now so Replica doesn't work. Outside of that specific scenario, I never really feel like reanimating him, so I thought I'd try replacing him for a while to see if I miss him. His replacement is Magus of the Abyss, in over regular old The Abyss because (a) I don't own one and (b) keeping my creature count up is important for this deck. Magus has been on my shortlist of things to add for a while, so I'll try it out.

-2 Forest, -1 Swamp, + cycle of Ravnica bouncelands

I'll see if this helps the mana any.

Things I'm Still Considering:

Azure Mage: Extra instant-speed dredges or just extra cards seems fine, but 3U is kind of pricey. Dimir Guildmage may just be better because I tap out a lot and Guildmage has an extra ability and an extra toughness.

Liliana of the Veil: She's probably better than Mindslicer, but I'm reluctant to cut too many more creatures. That said, I don't even have a Liliana 2 right now, so it will have to wait.

Laboratory Maniac: I'm kind of wondering what a Lab Maniac package would look like in this deck. The deck would likely be very different and very focused on finding and protecting a Hermit Druid so you can deck yourself and D Return a Maniac, but it's worth keeping in mind.

[Aggro_zombies]

Dark Ascension update time.

Overall, DKA is kind of disappointing, and not just for this deck. There are two cards I can see being good for Damia (although, admittedly, they're really good): Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Havengul Lich. The former is almost a global lord since there are few humans in the deck, and I can get a lot of mileage out of sacrificing my guys (more on that in a sec). The latter is just a sweet reanimator guy.

So, changes:

+ Mikaeus, -Oona, Queen of the Fae
Oona was only in there to make my Necrotic Ooze combo a legitimate finisher. Unfortunately, without a way to give haste to Necrotic Ooze, I rarely got to make infinite mana, and neither Thornling nor Skittles felt good enough on their own to add (although Skittles is very close). I'm fine with Necrotic Ooze playing like a Wrath and occasionally doing something else sweet, and if I decide in the future I want an infinite finisher, Triskelion works wonders with Mikey here.

+Havengul Lich, -Vengeful Pharaoh
Not being optional and triggering on damage make Pharaoh bad. I'm a little leery about cutting removal for non-removal, but Pharaoh can only generously be thought of as removal, so it's probably fine.

+Compulsion, -Oblivion Stone
One thing that bothers me is how often cards with dredge will get stuck in my hand. Previously, I had only Survival and Zombie Infestation (sometimes Drowned Rusalka and Fauna Shaman) to get them back into the graveyard, but I felt like I wanted one more card. Compulsion seems good enough here. Oblivion Stone gets cut for being kind of clunky.

+Vampiric Tutor, -Reanimate
Reanimate is almost very good. The problem for this deck was the life loss. Mana efficiency is a little bit less of an issue in EDH and this deck really wants reusable reanimation effects. Vampiric comes in because I probably should have had it here all along.

+Abyssal Gatekeeper, -Disciple of Griselbrand
Disciple was eh. Most of my guys are x/1 or x/2, making him a little worse on average than Gutless Ghoul, a card that had been cut from previous versions of the deck for not being good enough. I mean, yes, sometimes I could sacrifice a Keiga or something and gain a ton of life and steal a guy, but often my selection of targets would be a bunch of utility guys and a fatty I want to live, and then he's just not very good. Gatekeeper has come in and out of the deck for a while, usually based on whether I'm facing swarms of tokens or Voltron/fatty decks. The meta has shifted to the latter recently, so Gatekeeper it is.

+Mind Slash, -Primal Command
Primal Command is a card whose stock has gone down a lot over the years. By far the best use was tutor, get rid of a noncreature, but for five mana it's just not very strong, particularly given how easily I can find creatures via milling. I'd kept it because of versatility and my desire to have it be good (I mean, it used to be such a good card!), but it's time to cut it. Mind Slash is taking its slot. I like Slash because of how surgical it is; Mindslicer was good enough to run even with all his drawbacks, and Mind Slash is much better.

+Myr Sire, -Thornling
Thornling came out a while ago but I just never got around to updating the list. I forget what Sire is replacing (whatever briefly replaced Thornling), but I like the fact that I either get two sacrifices' worth of use out of him with Attrition, Mind Slash, Golgari Guildmage, Sadistic Hypnotist, and Drowned Rusalka, or that I get two chumps out of him. He seems especially useful if you combine him with Mikaeus and one of the sacrifice outlets (four uses from one card). We'll see if he lives up to my expectations in testing.

Cards I'm Watching:
- Grim Backwoods: I really want a replacement for Nephalia Drownyard, since it is not as good as I'd hoped (I mean, it's okay, but not great). Backwoods...is probably not that card. The effect feels like it costs too much to net only a single card or a single dredge. Hopefully the UG land in Avacyn Restored is good.

- Victimize: This card feels like it should be good, since I can get a lot of value out of netting two guys, but I dunno. It's one of those cards that I love but can never quite find room for in a finalized list. Maybe someday...

- Spike Feeder: Infinite life with Mikaeus, plain and simple.

- Triskelion: Infinite damage with Mikeaus, plain and simple. It's possible that the Necrotic Ooze combo is just not good enough without a way to win immediately with it (and no, Quillspike is not that card); if so, Trike would replace one of the pieces for sure, and Feeder would likely replace another. We'll see.

- Phyrexian Infiltrator: This is one of my favorite cards, second to Life from the Loam and maybe - maybe - Astral Slide. I just have an irrational love for him: he has sweet art, a simple but fun ability, and old-school Phyrexians are baller. This would be the only EDH deck I've got together that could play him, and I'd love to work him in someday. For 4UUUU, you can actually use him to exchange any of your creatures for any of the opponent's, which seems fun - I'll upgrade my worm token into your general. Plus, if they're not playing blue, you can leave them stuck with a Grey Ogre that they probably don't want to die because then you'll reanimate it and steal something else. That said...he's probably not good enough, but damn it, I'm going to try!

[Aggro_zombies]

Quadruple post for more updates.

Griselly Bear, Blood Artist, and Harvester of Souls are the only interesting cards I've seen out of Avacyn Restored, but I haven’t actually figured out how to work in any of them. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be interested.

As for what's actually changed:

+Bazaar of Baghdad, -Nephalia Drownyard
Well, I found my Drownyard replacement. Not much to say here - Bazaar is much better than Drownyard for what I want to be doing and is also better than the UG land.

+Forest, -Dust Bowl
Dust Bowl has been kind of so-so for me lately. There aren't a lot of lands I'm just dead to, and some of them (like Workshop) don't see play around here. I suppose this type of effect is nice to have, but I kind of want more colored mana.

+Beast Within, -Dakmor Salvage
Aside from its cute interaction with Worm Harvest, Salvage was the worst of the dredgers by far and was just a bad card all around. I usually counted it as occupying a spell slot since I rarely wanted to play it as a land, so I don't feel bad about swapping it to Beast Within. A green Vindicate seems useful in a midrange-control deck.

-Ooze Combo, +Triskelion, Victimize, and Oblivion Stone
Without Oona in the deck to turn the Ooze combo into a way to win, it became just a Wrath, and a rather clunky one at that. Even when Oona was in the deck, the combo was not very good because it required a non-summoning-sick Ooze in play, three different cards in the graveyard, and another creature in play that I could target. Mikaeus and Trike, though, get the job done in a much smaller number of slots and the two can be Victimized into play for the (near-instant) win. Oblivion Stone comes back in for more board control.

-Golgari Guildmage, +Undertaker
Guildmage was in the deck for two reasons: it was a sacrifice outlet, and it was a way to recur creatures early on. It was not very good at being either of those, but it stayed because it was incidentally useful if I was making infinite mana off of Necrotic Ooze. Now that Ooze is out, I'm looking for a cheap way to kick-start my reanimation engines and Undertaker mostly fits the bill. The biggest issue is how fragile she is, but she tends to look innocuous enough to survive for a while.

This is where I forget what exactly got swapped to what else. I do know that Mind Twist and Mind Shatter are now in over Kira and something else, probably Nostalgic Dreams. I wanted more ways to interact with people outside of board control, and the discard spells seemed like good ways to do that. I’m considering further adding Delirium Skeins, since it’s decent in multiplayer and I don’t mind discarding a bunch of cards with dredge (or reanimation targets). Golgari Germination has come in as a way to get extra value off of sacrificing guys and has been especially good with Sadistic Hypnotist.

[menace13]

Working on a Loam Control version for this deck where the plan rests on clearing board or grinding out resources through recursion.

[Artifact]
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mindslaver
1 Mox Diamond
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Smokestack
1 Sol Ring
1 Zuran Orb

[Creature]
1 Acidic Slime
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1 Baleful Strix
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Genesis
1 Kederekt Leviathan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Primeval Titan
1 Snapcaster Mage

[Land]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bayou
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cabal Pit
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Command Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dust Bowl
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Hinterland Harbor
1 Island
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tolaria West
1 Treetop Village
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
1 Watery Grave
1 Woodland Cemetery

[Planeswalker]
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana of the Veil

[Enchantment]
1 Burgeoning
1 Exploration
1 Manabond
1 Necropotence
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library
1 The Abyss

[Instant]
1 Beast Within
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Intuition
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Realms Uncharted
1 Shred Memory
1 Vampiric Tutor

[Sorcery]
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Bribery
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Devastation Tide
1 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Life from the Loam
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Mind Twist
1 Mulch
1 Raven's Crime
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Treasure Hunt
1 Worm Harvest

[Aggro_zombies]

And...updates!

Kokoshu came off the ban list and replaced Keiga. Jarad and Korozda Guildmage are both in from RtR: Jarad is pretty obvious and both of the Guildmage's abilities are relevant. Past that, the list is starting to get pretty tight if I want to keep it at a fairly consistent power level.

[Aggro_zombies]

Updates.

Kokusho left for being not good enough. I mean, he was okay, and the life was certainly welcome, but he drew a lot of hate and it was not as easy to turn him into a slow-acting Exsanguinate as I'd hoped. I could probably pull it off with Urborg and Cabal Coffers, but yawn - that combo is still worse than Mike+Trike as far as killing everyone is concerned and I am not overly fond of running Coffers in a deck that isn't primarily black for stylistic reasons.

Return to Ravnica brought a number of cards with it, despite Scavenge being a terrible mechanic in this format. DRS is useful and Chromatic Lantern gives me perfect mana, although my manabase was already fairly stable; I guess it's protection from Blood Moon and related effects. I've since soured on Korozda Guildmage since it came out: the Saproling ability does not often make enough creatures to justify its four mana cost since most of my creatures are small, and the intimidate ability suffers from my meta being saturated with G/x decks. I think I'll keep it for now but am open to replacing it with a better two-drop, possibly from the next set.

Gatecrash brought actual nothing, though. I tried both Duskmantle Guildmage and Ogre Slumlord, but neither was good enough; the former had two corner-case abilities and the latter ended up not being the improvement on Golgari Germination I'd wanted due primarily to not surviving sweepers and costing five. I briefly considered Consuming Aberration, but there are at least a dozen five-drops this deck wants to run, and it can't accommodate them all. I don't know which of my current suite of fives Aberration is an improvement over, so it remains benched for now.

I'm looking for a replacement for Mind Shatter that causes discard but can hit multiple people. I want more discard, actually, but don't have enough room, so I'm limiting it to four slots for now.

[Kuma]

I'm looking for a replacement for Mind Shatter that causes discard but can hit multiple people. I want more discard, actually, but don't have enough room, so I'm limiting it to four slots for now.

Myojin of Night's Reach? Cabal Conditioning?

[Aggro_zombies]

Myojin of Night's Reach? Cabal Conditioning?
Hmm, both of those are rather pricey, mana-wise. Myojin is the better of the two in terms of synergy with the rest of the deck, but I can't Pod for her and then use her ability (and really, I don't want to Pod Sheoldred into a 5/2 basically ever).

As awful as it sounds, Delirium Skeins might be what I'm looking for. The card is relatively cheap, hits multiple cards from each opponent, and it's easy for me to negate the -3 to myself through either recursion or drawing with Damia.

The real question, I guess, is whether I want to partially hit people's hands early or whether I want to completely get rid of them late. Skeins does the former and Myojin does the latter. I'm still not sure which I want more since all of my current discard is relatively late-game right now.

[Tog]

Have you considered using Attunement as a dredge discard outlet and dredge enabler? It's a reusable ability that allows you place cards where you want them while seeing new cards.

[Aggro_zombies]

Have you considered using Attunement as a dredge discard outlet and dredge enabler? It's a reusable ability that allows you place cards where you want them while seeing new cards.
I would consider it if I didn't have a Bazaar, but I don't currently feel the need for more dredge enablers. If you don't have a Bazaar, though, it's worth looking into Attunement.

[Aggro_zombies]

So, the new legend rules for M14 have me kind of down on clone effects right now, since I can't use them to get rid of hexproof/shroud generals anymore. DGM didn't really have anything I wanted to add when it first came out, but now I'm considering cutting the following: Phantasmal Image, Korozda Guildmage, Beast Within.

Those three slots can be replaced by basically any of the following:

More Removal: Abyssal Gatekeeper, Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Black Sun's Zenith, Gaze of Granite. Basically, I want to cut Beast Within because it's always so-so at what it does, and add in another removal spell to keep my removal count consistent. Gatekeeper has done okay in the past, but the fact that it occasionally results in me 2-for-1'ing myself can be frustrating. Savra might be slightly short sacrifice outlets, but if I have one she'll trigger off of most of my creatures. BSZ and Gaze are sort of the same thing; BSZ deals with indestructible creatures, while Gaze hits non-creatures as well. I'm inclined to try BSZ first just because I don't feel a ton of need to have my Wrath be a Pernicious Deed activation.

More Tutor/Draw: Buried Alive, Notion Thief. Thief would be sick in a different meta but there are just not enough Consecrated Sphinxes around here. It might still be okay because there's an Edric deck or two, but a 3/1 body for four isn't super attractive. Buried Alive is one of those cards that's been on the cusp for a long time now - I kind of want to try it just to see, but the issue is that I will most often go for three utility guys, or two utility guys and a Genesis. But who knows.

Other: Silverglade Pathfinder, Scavenging Ooze, Myojin of Night's Reach, Consuming Aberration. Pathfinder is ramp that lets me put dredge cards into the graveyard early, but might be a little too weak. I would run the Harrow spellshaper over it, but that guy is in my tertiary color (blue). Ooze just gives me an extra way to shut down Clone-on-Legends-with-CiP/Death-Triggers loops, and was fine if unexciting when it was in here last. Myojin gives me another late-game discard option, but the troll in me kind of wants to run Mindslicer instead. Aberration gives me an alternate path to victory against some of the particularly turtle-y decks, but is otherwise (likely) just big and dumb.

A quick search of the currently-spoiled M14 cards doesn't reveal anything I'd want to add.

I'll have to think about what I want in there for a bit, but feedback is appreciated.

[Kuma]

Thief would be sick in a different meta but there are just not enough Consecrated Sphinxes around here.

If you have Notion Thief, and your opponent has Consecrated Sphinx, they can just choose to keep "drawing" for your Notion Thief draws until you're decked. However, it's pretty good if you have a piece of spot removal and can kill their Consecrated Sphinx after drawing like 70 cards.

[Aggro_zombies]

If you have Notion Thief, and your opponent has Consecrated Sphinx, they can just choose to keep "drawing" for your Notion Thief draws until you're decked. However, it's pretty good if you have a piece of spot removal and can kill their Consecrated Sphinx after drawing like 70 cards.
Yeah, that I knew. I can also just sacrifice my Notion Thief at some point if I don't have the removal. My issue with the card is that I feel like it would either be fantastic (nice Recurring Insight lol) or really terrible. The way I play this deck, I don't usually have four mana open to respond to a draw spell with Thief, and people will just hold their draw spells until Thief dies (pretty easy to kill a one toughness creature). Chains of Mephistopheles would probably be much better for this sort of punish-draws effect, and my deck can break the symmetry to a certain degree, but I'm not sure I really want that effect all that much. I guess it makes my Mind Twists better, but...

EDIT: I should add that I'm also considering Deadeye Navigator now. If I added one, I would probably also add a few more creatures with CiP abilities - stuff that's eternally on the cusp like Wood Elves and the like. I'm also considering breaking my long-standing "blue deck with no counters" rule for this build to run Mystic Snake and Glen Elendra Archmage, but those would be things I would include only after adding DEN.

[Tog]

If you're considering using Deadeye Navigator, something else you might want to consider is Ghostly Flicker. With Eternal Witness and Archeaomancer, you can repetitively abuse CIP abilities. As it stands though, I don't think you have enough creatures with CIP abilities to abuse either.

I'm a big fan of Buried Alive in any deck that abuses the graveyard. I know you're not running Reassembling Skeletons but I love it. You have a lot of quality sacrifice outlets which can make use of the Skeletons (Marauder, Slum Reaper, Attrition, Drowned Rusalka, Skullclamp, Birthing Pod, Tortured Existence, Dread Return, Sadistic Hypnotist). Plus it's a great blocker, doubly so with Wonder in the yard.

Good find in the Silverglade Pathfinder. Lands tend to be the only permanents you can rely on in EDH. Although Dreamscape Artist is in your splash color, it might still be worthwhile. It works to power Life from the Loam and Worm Harvest while developing your mana base. The opportunity cost for three colors with all the fixing available to you is minimal.

Of the other cards you've listed, I only have experience with Savra but it seems like a poor fit for the deck. You don't run enough black creatures for her to be worthwhile. Having a 2/2 that does nothing unless you've got a sacrifice outlet seem bad.

[FTW]

How do you protect Damia? Do people not try to remove her? In my circle, anything that says "draw 3-7 cards a turn" has a huge target on its back....

[Aggro_zombies]

Kira can protect her from targeted removal, but she's not essential for this deck to function. There are plenty of games where I don't even cast her, either because I forget (this deck was Vorosh for a long time and he wasn't that hot) or because I don't need to.