10-card-decks

[Smea.gol.lum]

I would like to introduce a new 'mini format' which I've just invented.

It has the same banned list as Legacy + Chancellor of the Spires and Chancellor of the Annex.

Your deck has to contain exactly 10 cards, whereas you can choose what your hand looks like and what the top 3 cards of your library are and you can also choose the order.

Your sideboard contains 2 cards.

You can't lose due to not having any cards left in your library.

What do you think would be the best deck?

I make the first proposal for a deck:

Hand:
2 x FOW
1 x Daze
2 x Mindbreak Trap
1 x Gitaxian Probe
1 x Tome Scour

Libary:
1 x Island
1 x Delver of Secrets
1 x Random

Sideboard:
1 x Wasteland
1 x Leyline of Sanctity

Don't be too harsh with me regarding this pile, i made it at 4 am.

Have fun with brewing!

[majikal]

Hand:
1x City of Traitors
2x Pact of Negation
1x Force of Will
1x Lotus Petal
1x Laboratory Maniac
1x Gitaxian Probe

Library:
3x Gitaxian Probe

Sideboard:
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Lifeforce

[(nameless one)]

So it's a glorified Doomsday pile?

[Wizened Cenn]

Hand:
1x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Chancellor of the Forge
1x Chancellor of the Spires
2x Simian Spirit Guide
1x Combust
1x Leyline of Sanctcity

Library:
3x Memnite

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Hand:
City of Traitors
Mox Opal
Painter's Servant
Lion's Eye Diamond
Grind Stone
Force of Will
Show and Tell

Library:
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Sideboard:
Show and Tell
Show and Tell

EDIT: 300th post! and it's combo related!

[Smea.gol.lum]

OK, i think Chancellor of the Spires and Chancellor of the Annex need to be banned in this format, they are far too strong :P

[Admiral_Arzar]

Hand:

Lotus Petal
Stifle
Shelldock Isle
Force of Will x3
Mindbreak Trap

Library:

Island
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Echoing Truth

[Julian23]

Let's have some fun and be creative.

Deck:

1x Leyline of Singularity
1x Leyline of Lifeforce
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Punishment
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Abeyance

Library:

1x Abeyance
1x Orim's Chant
1x Opalescence

SB:
2x Mindbreak Trap

[Gheizen64]

Let's have some fun and be creative.

Deck:

1x Leyline of Singularity
1x Leyline of Lifeforce
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Punishment
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Abeyance

Library:

1x Abeyance
1x Orim's Chant
1x Opalescence

SB:
2x Mindbreak Trap

Love this one but it looks like u miss some mana for the combo.

[Julian23]

It's not meant to kill on turn1. The "plan" is to Abeyance your opponent during his 1st upkeep, then either cycle the 2nd one right away for the Chant protected turn2 kill or just cycle the 2nd Abeyance on your second turn to draw a counter, then either Chant your opponent on his 2nd turn or use it to protect your 3rd turn kill.

^^

[OurSerratedDust]

I think he meant that you need mana to cast the non-leyline cards in your deck.

Right?

[DragoFireheart]

Hand:

4 FoW
Lotus Petal
Brainstorm
Simian Spirit Guide

Library:

Pithing Needle
Mountain Goat
Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
2 Mindbreak Trap

[kombatkiwi]

I think he meant that you need mana to cast the non-leyline cards in your deck.

Right?

He has serras sanctum so with 5 leylines in play he can make 5 mana

[Comrade]

Hand:
x1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
x3 Lotus Petal
x2 Thoughtseize
x1 Tome Scour

Library:
x1 Bayou
x1 Nature's Caim
x1 Inkmoth Nexus

Sideboard:
x1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
x1 Extirpate

[rufus]

Something like this seems like a reasonably strong primary threat:

4x Chancellor of the Dross
2x Soul Spike
1x Pact of Negation

...
Though I believe that a more subtle deck with Force of Will, Brainstorm and Laboratory Maniac is probably going to be stronger.

[dahcmai]

old school it.

Swamp
dark rit x2
illusionary mask
phyrexian dreadnought
duress x2



And that's an old combo with that serra's sanctum trick. It's too bad it never worked in practice with a 60 card deck. It is funny.

[Comrade]

I wouldn't mind a third SB slot. Though without an actual meta, it's just kind of winging it as it is.

[dontbiteitholmes]

hand:
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Orim's Chant
1x Gemstone Cavern
1x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Trinisphere
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Mox Diamond

deck:
1x Wasteland
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Laboratory Maniac

SB:
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Pact of the Titan

[Whippoorwill]

Hand:
Bayou
Putrid Imp
Vengevine
Vengevine
Vengevine
Basking Rootwalla
Leyline of Lifeforce

Library:
Vengevine
Nature's Claim
Surgical Extraction

[Comrade]

hand:
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Orim's Chant
1x Gemstone Cavern
1x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Trinisphere
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Mox Diamond

deck:
1x Wasteland
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Laboratory Maniac

SB:
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Pact of the Titan

A challenger appears... I'm thinking that Gemstone Caverns/Orim's Chant would probably become a default sideboard. As if you won game one, it would completely fuck up your opponents game two most of the time.

Hand:
x1 Leyline of Anticipation
x3 Lotus Petal
x1 Thoughtseize
x1 Nature's Claim
x1 Tome Scour

Library:
x1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
x1 Inkmoth Nexus
x1 City of Brass

Sideboard:
x1 Gemstone Cavern
x1 Orim's Chant

or some combination of:

x1 Elvish Spirit Guide / x1 Null Rod / x1 Leyline of Sanctity / x1 Surgical Extraction

[rufus]

A challenger appears... I'm thinking that Gemstone Caverns/Orim's Chant would probably become a default sideboard. As if you won game one, it would completely fuck up your opponents game two most of the time.

I think you're underestimating the power level of the format if it's competitive. Here's a couple of possibilities that try to win on the upkeep of turn 1, and have counter support. In a setting like this, there's really no reason to prefer being on the play unless you're playing many free counters.


4x Chancellor of the Dross
2x Soul Spike
1x Pact of Negation


Edit here's a slightly better one:
Hand:

2x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Manamorphose
1x Dark Ritual
1x Predict
2x Pact of Negation

Library:

Shallow Grave
Laboratory Maniac
Street Wraith


To have a plausible chance of being competitive, a deck must field turn 0.5 instant speed win cons, or multiple free counters.

[Rizso]

Let's have some fun and be creative.

Deck:

1x Leyline of Singularity
1x Leyline of Lifeforce
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Leyline of Punishment
1x Leyline of Anticipation
1x Serra's Sanctum
1x Abeyance

Library:

1x Abeyance
1x Orim's Chant
1x Opalescence

SB:
2x Mindbreak Trap

You do realize, with 5 leylines in starting hand, playing that turn 1 Opalescene means you can attack for 20 on turn one :D

[264505]

You do realize, with 5 leylines in starting hand, playing that turn 1 Opalescene means you can attack for 20 on turn one :D

Wouldn't they be summoning sick?

[Julian23]

They're actually summoning sick but it doesn't matter since you're aiming for a turn 2 or 3 kill in the first place.

[Rizso]

why would they have summoning sickness? They have been in play before you upkeep.

[Koby]

Leylines start in play before any turn is taken, and since they started in play prior to your Untap step, they would not be subject to summoning sickness.

[Julian23]

The rules don't say anything about the Upkeep. It's about being in play when your turn begins.

A creature can‘t attack unless it has been under its controller‘s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began

Which makes me wonder, when does a turn actually start?

8/15/2010: After each player has exercised his or her option to put Leylines onto the battlefield, the first turn of the game begins.


Since your turn can't start before the game begins, Leylines won't actually be summoning sick. I like :D

[bruizar]

Leylines are put in play before the game starts. They dont have summoning sickness.

The same is true for Karns ultimate. If you exile a creature with Karn and restart the game, you can attack immediately even though it doesn't have haste.

[Whippoorwill]

New decklist:

Hand:
Lotus Petal
Ancient Tomb
Show and Tell
Hive Mind
Summoner's Pact
Force of Will
Misdirection

Library:
Emrakul
Tropical Island
Whippoorwill

Sideboard:
Leyline of Sanctity
Leyline of the Void

[Comrade]

I think you're underestimating the power level of the format if it's competitive. Here's a couple of possibilities that try to win on the upkeep of turn 1, and have counter support. In a setting like this, there's really no reason to prefer being on the play unless you're playing many free counters.

Not really. I was just saying that Holmes was the first person to post a decklist with some thought put into it and wasn't as easy to hate out as most of the others would be. I was trying to post a list that would hold it's own versus the proposed field as of that point. And that even if it lost to a random rogue deck here or there, that would still be fine.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

I think you're underestimating the power level of the format if it's competitive. Here's a couple of possibilities that try to win on the upkeep of turn 1, and have counter support. In a setting like this, there's really no reason to prefer being on the play unless you're playing many free counters.


4x Chancellor of the Dross
2x Soul Spike
1x Pact of Negation


Edit here's a slightly better one:
Hand:

2x Chancellor of the Tangle
1x Manamorphose
1x Dark Ritual
1x Predict
2x Pact of Negation

Library:

Shallow Grave
Laboratory Maniac
Street Wraith


To have a plausible chance of being competitive, a deck must field turn 0.5 instant speed win cons, or multiple free counters.
You need Spirit Guides over Chancellor since he triggetrs at beginning of first mainphase

[Octopusman]

You need Spirit Guides over Chancellor since he triggetrs at beginning of first mainphase

Right, which means pacts were no good in the previous list. I think this would be DTB with being all instant except for the moment when maniac enters play and when street wraith's draw resolves from the cycle.


That is a hot list. I think the main phase mana from the chancellor was an oversight.

[dorsch]

//Hand:
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Chancellor of the Spires
2 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Mindbreak Trap

//Deck:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Nether Spirit

//SB:
1 Wasteland
1 Mindbreak Trap

My take on a control deck.
This deck should beat every deck posted until now.


If the two Chancellors are indeed banned, this one beats everything too:

//Hand:
1 Leylien of Sanctity
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Misdirection
2 Force of Will
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Commandeer

//Deck:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Ratchet Bomb


//SB:
1 Wasteland
1 Gut Shot

[rufus]

[cards]
//Hand:
...
My take on a control deck.
This deck should beat every deck posted until now.

Very nice. That's a nasty list...

It occurs to me that there's no need to reanimate from the graveyard with Scout's Warning
Hand

Elvish Spirit Guide
Simian Spirit Guide
Manamorphose
Dark Ritual
Pact of Negation
Pact of Negation
Street Wraith


Library:

Manamorphose
Scout's Warning
Laboratory Maniac


Sideboard

Mindbreak Trap
Shallow Grave


I'm not sure if there's a good way to tweak it to do well against the control lists. There's also some fun silly stuff out there...

Hand:

4 Chancellor of the Forge
3 Blazing Shoal


Library

3 Mindbreak Trap


Sideboard

2 Pact of Negation


Maybe some Pyrokenesis instead of Blazing Shoal...

[Dark Ritual]

A helm line list would probably look like this

Starting Hand
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Show and Tell
1 Lotus Petal
1 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
1 Leyline of the Void

3 Cards below
1 Emrakul
1 Show and Tell
1 Island

SB
1 Echoing Truth
1 Island

For aggro combo there's this
1 Chancellor of the Forge
1 Tainted Strike
1 Blazing Shoal
1 Progenitus
1 Misdirection
1 Force of Will
1 Swamp

1 Island
1 Plains
1 Force of Will

SB
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Echoing Truth

For a more traditional doomsday approach there's this one

1 Ideas Unbound
3 Lotus Petal
2 Dark Ritual
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
Library
Ill-Gotten Gains
Tendrils of Agony
Duress

SB
1 Swamp
1 Thoughtseize

This seems rather glass cannonish though what with everyone including force of will in their opener lol.

[Smea.gol.lum]

So far, I've seen many nice decklists with reasonable thoughts put into them.

At this point, I'm going to edit my opening post and ban Chancellor of the Spires as well as Chancellor of the Annex, since they seem too strong in my eyes in this kind of game.

[TsumiBand]

If you change the max number of like cards, you might not have to ban some of the cards you're thinking of / avoid weird bannings in the future.

Say, since you only get a 10 card deck you get to stack anyway, maybe 2x instead of 4x

[Dark Ritual]

So starting out with 2 chancellor's active is a fair thing? I doubt that. Especially for annex; you can go off easily with that protection unless the opponent's deck is something like 1x island, 1x delver of secrets and the rest countermagic in the form of force of will and misdirection.

Also look at this really weird concoction I threw together

1x Underground Sea
1x Lotus Petal
1x Ideas unbound
3x Lion's Eye Diamond
1x Mindbreak Trap

Library
1x Underground Sea
1x Thoughtseize
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker

SB
1x Chain of vapor
1x Thoughtseize

This format is definitely way too combo centric though lol it's essentially "who can create the best godhand"

[rufus]

This format is definitely way too combo centric though lol it's essentially "who can create the best godhand"

Yeah. How lean can you make the win pile, counters, and counter-counters. Seems pretty degenerate.

FWIW: Chancellor of the Annex (even in multiples) while strong is pretty reasonably countered by something like Gitaxian Probe or Pact of Negation or an extra ESG/SSG, and Chancellor of the Spires loses to instant-speed win cons.



Maybe 2x instead of 4x

In terms of power level, even restricting it to 1x isn't going to do much. There's not much reason to use four of the same free counter, and combo decks can already get by with 1x cards.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Yeah. How lean can you make the win pile, counters, and counter-counters. Seems pretty degenerate.

FWIW: Chancellor of the Annex (even in multiples) while strong is pretty reasonably countered by something like Gitaxian Probe or Pact of Negation or an extra ESG/SSG, and Chancellor of the Spires loses to instant-speed win cons.


In terms of power level, even restricting it to 1x isn't going to do much. There's not much reason to use four of the same free counter, and combo decks can already get by with 1x cards.

Pact of Negation doesn't counter Chancellor unless they cast a spell 1st which is why I went with Pact of the Titan in the SB. I'm surprised no one asked.

[Gheizen64]

If you want to remove too much randomness, just make it so that every card aside basic lands is restricted to 1x and maybe up the cards to 20 or so so chancellors aren't an autowin.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Opening Hand:
1 Violent Outburst
1 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Kuro, Pitlord
1 Akroma's Memorial

Next 3:
1 Hypergenesis
1 Berserk
1 Dryad Arbor

Sideboard:
1 Gemstone Caverns
1 Platinum Angel

Kuro can, of course, change out for anything that might fit better. If Removal isn't so necessary but something else is, one can play accordingly.

[Malakai]

Hand:
Leyline of Sanctity
Force of Will
Force of Will
Mindbreak Trap
Mindbreak Trap
Commandeer
Misdirection

Library:
Dryad Arbor
Wasteland
Blinkmoth Nexus

Sideboard:
Summoning Trap
Platinum Angel