U/b DelverAmerica

[troopatroop]

4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tombstalker

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Ponder
1 Dismember
3 Ghastly Demise

4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
1 Island

Blue just got an aggressive 1 Drop. This is both fun and broken, because it splashes into anything aggressive, which blue can now be! This deck aims to exploit both Tombstalker and Hymn to Tourach on the splash. The deck needs a big finisher, and Hymn is just an excellent card. Snapcaster Mage is at his best in this deck, with Stifle, Spell Snare, and Hymn being amazing. Tombstalker and Insectile fly over for damage, while 4 Removals + Snapcaster can check Goblins and Merfolk pretty well. 31! Instants and Sorceries for Delver, and you can't do much better than that. I'm unsure how 9 threats will pan out, but the evasion is what's so appealing. It's truly amazing how good blue is now, and I'm very excited to play these new creatures in live tournaments. The deck absolutely manhandles anything combo, can Stifle/Waste its way to victory against anything, and has a better aggro matchup than ever before with Snapcaster Mage. I've been very impressed with black so far, and Tombstalker is an incredible creature to be able to support. I also love playing such a Rock hard manabase. I'm currently giving thought to Sinkhole and Diabolic Edict. Another big card for this build is Perish from the board, which solves much of its ground problems. Comments? All feedback is welcome :)

[caiomarcos]

I don't see much synergy between Snapcaster Mage and Tombstalker. Playing either makes the other significantly less powerful.

[mchainmail]

Play 10 games against Zoo and 10 games against Goblins.

If you win more than 2 against either deck, I would be very, very surprised.

[troopatroop]

Play 10 games against Zoo and 10 games against Goblins.

If you win more than 2 against either deck, I would be very, very surprised.

I'd expect to win 4 against Zoo and 5 against Goblins. Also, I would board heavily for these decks. Plague and Perish ftw?


I don't see much synergy between Snapcaster Mage and Tombstalker. Playing either makes the other significantly less powerful.

First, with only 2 Tombstalker and 3 Snapcaster Mage, there are some reasonable assumptions we can make.

1: We'll most likely be casting Snapcaster Mage before Tombstalker, both for mana reasons and the fact that we only play 2.
2: There will be many games where the cards aren't seen in tandem.

Delve lets you pick the cards, and I usually have no problems. You could say the same for Ghastly Demise. Cast Tombstalker last, like a finisher.

Zoo and Goblins are the decks worst matchups. If you don't think Snapcaster Mage helps a fuckton, I don't think you have much credibility.

[mchainmail]

I'd expect to win 4 against Zoo and 5 against Goblins. Also, I would board heavily for these decks. Plague and Perish ftw?

Zoo and Goblins are the decks worst matchups. If you don't think Snapcaster Mage helps a fuckton, I don't think you have much credibility.

So you're saying you're 40 and 50 % against your bad matchups?

There goes your credibility...

[GGoober]

What's your main goal with this deck? To kill an opponent fast under tempo or to just play tempo for the hell of playing tempo and slowly kill your opponents off?

Mainly asking because the 2 Tombstalkers just seem that you're not sure what the main role of the deck wants to do. I would say going -1 Snapcaster. -1 another card (maybe 4th Hymn or 4th Daze) +2 Tombstalkers will make your deck a little more towards the aggressive tempo plan. The issue with tempo is if you don't have enough beaters relying on your 7 cantrips, the tempo you gain isn't returning you anything.

If you don't like the +2 Tombstalkers, then you are approaching it in a slower tempo to gain towards the mid-game, in which case, you need some mid-game plan, like Jace or something.

[Qweerios]

If you want to abuse tempo and carefully prepare your draws for Delver, you should play Dark Confidant and Tombstalker, screw Snapcaster. Given the Team America disruption suite and 8 cantrips, I would go for one of the following creature suites:


4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker


or


4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

[NathanS2k]

If you want to abuse tempo and carefully prepare your draws for Delver, you should play Dark Confidant and Tombstalker, screw Snapcaster. Given the Team America disruption suite and 8 cantrips, I would go for one of the following creature suites:


4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tombstalker


or


4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought


That's pretty brave!

[Qweerios]

Yeah man, live life... it's all or nothing!

[GGoober]

Greatness, at any cost.

Bob does not fit in a tempo shell if you don't have a solid beater. Too bad Tombstalkers + Bob usually don't work out well. Dark Tempo Thresh can utilize Bobs because Goyf is still very solid at beating. Delver is solid but a little situational and easier to kill.

But the 2nd list is basically Dreadstill lists opting to play some Snapcaster.

I still don't get the whole big hype with Snapcasters. Maybe I'm wrong like I'm wrong with Batterskull, but I doubt it this time. If you really want to x-1 your opponents, black has Engineered Plague, Perish, EE etc which all do a great job at x-1'ing your opponent without diluting the maindeck. I doubt the above list will have a good time with Goblins. I barely break even with the UBr tempo delver list I played last weekend (4 bolts, 2 fire/ice, 3 Tombstalkers, 4 Delver, 3 Cliques, postboard 3 Lavamancers). Goblins will fetch up a sharpshooter, slow-roll you to the late-game since this deck lacks a clock currently and you'll lose to 1/1 dorks.

The games I won were pretty close, I was essentially racing even if I was countering/stifling/bolting/fire//icing his field. Ringleaders/War Marshal/Warchief are all big problems if resolved even if they don't seem like big problems. Zoo should be a favorable matchup until they slam a Lavamancer, and it's GG because you only play 2 Tombstalker, which they have plenty of removal. That was the uncertain point with my UBr list last weekend as well, since without Tombstalkers, Cliques/Delvers aren't reliable beaters if your opponent lands something like Lavamancer/Shackles.

[jlagrav]

That's pretty brave!

I've played bob with emrakul in a crazy mono black control deck I used to run. Flipped it over once when I was at 16 life, it was pretty hilarious

[troopatroop]

So you're saying you're 40 and 50 % against your bad matchups?

There goes your credibility...

Flames removed. -zilla


What I was saying, is that I do well against goblins. Granted, the build I'm playing against plays Fetches, Duals, Waste, and Port, so on the play I can really mess them up. If I thought that I'd be playing against more Aggro, I'd be playing a red core with Grim Lavamancer + Bolts, but my findings were that Snapcaster already does work in those matchups, reccuring Ghastly Demise to kill anything and block. Let's say Zoo is 35% and Goblins is about 40%. If Stifle/Waste isn't good against the Goblins you're playing against, then it's not even, but in my experience I've had some blowouts. No deck draws perfect every time, and without Vial in play, Goblins isn't that scary. Again, New deck, You've targetted the worst possible matchups, I'm playing Hymn to Tourach to destroy Control and Combo, here's your sign...


What's your main goal with this deck? To kill an opponent fast under tempo or to just play tempo for the hell of playing tempo and slowly kill your opponents off?

Mainly asking because the 2 Tombstalkers just seem that you're not sure what the main role of the deck wants to do. I would say going -1 Snapcaster. -1 another card (maybe 4th Hymn or 4th Daze) +2 Tombstalkers will make your deck a little more towards the aggressive tempo plan. The issue with tempo is if you don't have enough beaters relying on your 7 cantrips, the tempo you gain isn't returning you anything.

The Main Goal is to keep them on the shortest leash imaginable, Allow them nothing. Kill their lands, Counter their stuff, Kill their creatures, and then procede to run them out of cards and win. Hymn to Tourach is a huge part of that strategy, as is Spell Snare and Stifle, but it's Snapcaster Mage that puts this strategy over the top, because it's another easy 2 for 1. If your big gripe with the list is 2x Tombstalker, cut some cards and play some more. They're pretty awful in Multiples and you don't need one to win, but if that's all anyone can talk about, then knock yourself out.

[oldbsturgeon]

I'm glad someone wanted to look at a deck like this as I was also considering something along the same lines. I wonder though would it be better to reduce the number of spell snare and maybe include some thoughtseize?
In addition to that, maybe even adding another dismember or possibly a diabolic edict?
Any idea about including a vendilion clique as well?

[Zalren]

I have been playing this deck casually with my friends. It does pretty well.

4 Wasteland
2 Watery Grave
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
4 Swamps
4 Islands

2 Vendilion Clique
4 Tombstalker
4 Delver of Secrets

4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Misdirection
4 Stifle
4 Thoughtseize
4 Victim of Night

I play Misdirection because all my friends play black for Hymn to Tourach and I love sending it back at them.

[sclabman]

This is my deck for the past week. I play Thoughtseize over Hymn as it allows me to get the removal or big creature that will let the opponent race my fliers.

4x Delver
4x Tomstalker
2x Vendilion Clique

4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Thoughtseize
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
2x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
1x Smother
1x Snuff Out

4x Delta
4x Misty
4x U.Sea
4x Waste
2x Island
2x Swamp

I think the Go for the Throat or Smother should become another Thoughtseize. The goal is to disrupt and then race with your fliers. Having multiples of any of your fliers turns into a blisteringly fast clock but even one Delver is often enough.

[Finn]

This is why I think Delver is the gem of the set. You don't have to play green. A good idea here, Troop. This will not be the last new deck to eschew green simply because it plays Delvers. The fact that it flies makes all the difference.

[Nightmare]

I've been working on this deck a lot lately, and I plan to play something similar to it in Vestal this weekend. I think you're missing a few key elements, which I'll address after that event, either in this thread if I get the opportunity, or in an article discussing the deck.

The deck has serious problems with aggressive matchups, but houses control, combo and aggro-control strategies quite well, especially if you board properly (hint - you need a shit-ton of removal post-board). I think your list is close, Troop, and if you plan to be at Jupiter this weekend, I'll show you my build.

[Zilla]

It feels like it wants a couple of Unearths, but I'm not sure what you'd cut to make room. Also... I mean like. Dark Confidant? It sort of feels like a no-brainer. Is a build that eschews Tombstalker for Confidant feasible or will it not be aggressive enough? It would be nice to get rid of the dissynergy between Stalker and Snapcaster if it's at all possible.

[arebennian]

Meh, I don't know why everyone is so against playing Tombstalker with Snapcaster. I mean, Team American play Stalker and Goyf in the same deck, and some thrash variants are playing Goyf and Lavamancer. Realistically, you only need 1 or two cards left in the graveyard for Snapcaster to be good, surely their is still enough fuel for Tombstalker?

And Nightmare, I would love to see the build. Post it up with breakdown post event.

[Zilla]

After some playtesting, I agree. Bob seems weak, and Tombstalker definitely has more oomph. I also agree that its potential dissynergy isn't that big a deal with Snapcaster, since you can typically leave one or two of the more important instants in the yard to flashback when you need them.

I'm not totally sold on the Snapcasters. It seems like half the time they're amazing, and the other half they're barely useful at all. The deck may want 21 lands to support them more consistently.

[Infinitium]

I just don't see why you would play Snapcaster at all when Vendilion Clique functionally costs the same, has an arguably better effect at that cost, and actually has a respectable power with evasion to boot (important distinction since all your other creatures flie as well).

[troopatroop]

I just don't see why you would play Snapcaster at all when Vendilion Clique functionally costs the same, has an arguably better effect at that cost, and actually has a respectable power with evasion to boot (important distinction since all your other creatures flie as well).

An arguably better effect? I disagree. Snapcaster is card advantage, and Clique is even cards. Snapcaster can kill something, and counter a spell, for some examples.

[Zilla]

They actually do have an arguably better effect, at least in certain decks. The thing is, at least in my playtesting experience, Snapcaster was at its strongest against aggro, where I was effectively doubling up my removal. Clique tends to be stronger against combo and control.

Clique is a bigger threat because of the extra power and the evasion, so I don't think it's a totally clear cut decision, but the deck is at its weakest against aggro, so Snapcaster is likely the better choice of the two for that slot.

[GradStudentGuy]

Delver and Snap caster belong in different decks in my opinion. Delver wants a high spell low creature and land count while Snap caster is mana hungry and want ~22 ish lands to be optimal. In Tempo decks with low land counts you rarely have the mana to use snap caster when needed. Basically what I would run creature wise would be

4x Tombstalkers
4x Delvers
2x Vendilion Clique

[Finn]

Yep. Delver is the better card. It does something no other blue card can while Snapcaster has to fight for it's spot. Picked up my Delvers for, well nothin'.

[from Cairo]

I was thinking of something similar to this sort of crossed with The Gate. I don't know if this is the appropriate thread for it, but since it's more Black based than Blue, but I'll throw it out there anyway...

Creatures 14
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Abyssal Persecutor

Instants 15
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Diabolic Edict

Sorceries 9
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Torach
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

Planeswalkers 3
3 Liliana of the Veil

Land 19
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
1 Island

SB
Spell Pierce
Surgical Extraction
Duress
Perish
Engineered Plague
Ghastly Demise
Umezawa's Jitte
etc.

It's rough at this point, but basically is looking to ramp up CA through the early-game with Therapy, Hymn, and Dark Confidant - then seal the midgame with Snapcaster and Liliana2. Probe while sort of janky, I'd consider for T1: Probe -> Therapy, T2: Snapcaster -> Probe -> fb Therapy.

Something on the higher end of the curve might have to be cut for the 20th land, but there's a bunch of cheap draw, and the curve is pretty low so it might work as is.

4 Therapy, 3 Liliana, 2 Diabolic Edict seems like plenty of ways to off Persecutor so I think it can fit here allowing you to have some beefy fliers and Dark Confidant. Persecutor fits better with Snapcaster than Tombstalker anyway.

The SB could be tailored to fill gaps, more removal vs agro, Surgicals/Pates and Spell Pierces versus combo and control.

[troopatroop]

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tombstalker
2 Vendilion Clique

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
3 Firespout
3 Snuff Out

4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Scalding Tarn

Firespout is ridiculous here against Merfolk, Goblins, Zoo, and a slew of other decks. While this is a strange card to maindeck, I think it's really good in the current environment, and I'm especially impressed by the supporting cast of cards that get run alongside it here. I haven't gotten the chance to playtest it much, but I like how Firespout touches none of my dudes, and that I am playing Hymn to Tourach in my deck. Clique over Snapcaster is a guess, imo. I think this deck wants more reliable clocking + Utility, but I could be wrong. Thoughts?

[from Cairo]

Clique over Snapcaster is a guess, imo. I think this deck wants more reliable clocking + Utility, but I could be wrong. Thoughts?

I think in your shell Clique makes a lot more sense. Snapcaster doesn't have much synergy with Snuff Out or Firespout, so it would miss out on enforcing creature control. You'd probably want to run Lightning Bolts and Dismembers/Ghastly Demises for creature control if using Snapcaster.

[RandomTask]

I think that there are two ways to build the deck: a more control-oriented shell, that expects to see the mid-game, or the aggressive shell that most of you have identifyed above.

I have been experimenting with a more controlling build, to some good success. What I will say is that I have not tested the zoo matchup yet, which is almost certainly a major concern. As far as the Goblins tissy you guys got into above, Goblins can be a fairly tough matchup, but unlike Merfolk, remember that Stifle is very good against them. The lack of removal Im maindecking will probably make the game one incredibly tough, but you'll see that this is addressed in the sideboard. As far as the Snapcaster argument goes, I think, and I could be wrong here, but I think that the Snapcaster goes into the more controlling build, but probably not the aggressive build. Comments are welcome, but again I think that you have to identify what you want the deck to accomplish, and then match your card selection to that objective. An example of how my list reflects this, is the choice to eschew Daze in favor of Counterspell. Also, I think that Clique is better in the more controlling build. Finally, Thoughtseize, in my opinion, is best in the agressive build, while isn't as strong in my version. Let me know what you think. The sideboard probably still needs some work.

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Hymn to Torach
3 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
2 Dismember
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Go for the Throat
2 Jace
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
2 Island
1 Swamp
2 Mishra's Factory

Sideboard
4 Enginered Plague
1 Darkblast
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Bitterblossom
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Extirpate (better with Delver/Snapcaster)

[Mr. Safety]

My only qualm with the opening decklist is only 2 Stalkers. I would play 3, but that's me.

@Troopatroop: With a red splash for Firespout... Fire/Ice? Lightning Bolt?

[DragoFireheart]

Has any tried Lilliana? It makes the deck more mid-range, but turn 3 Lilly followed by Turn 4 Jace is pretty brutal.

[GGoober]

I have been playing Ubr Dreadstalker for some time. I know it belongs to the other thread, but the deck are very similar (with Tombstalker/Delver/Clique).

I haven't had success with the Ubr build for the past 2-3 weeks despite the fact that red splash for bolts/REB/Firespout is great on paper. It does improve your merfolk matchup with combination of Firespout/bolt/REB, but I think the biggest issue I have is the inconsistency of tri-color with playing only 18-19 lands.

For the longest time I was wondering how did Team America pull off a consistent tri-color manabase with Tombstalker and I realized that most TA lists are running 20+ lands. I would advice that if you're going tri-color, playing 20+ lands is required. The case is different for Canadian Thresh because the deck does not have anything that have double-color in its casting cost.

I'm still going to be playing UB or UBr Dreadstalker. I feel that the UB Delverstalker lists shouldn't be too focused on the control role. It is ultimately a tempo deck, and playing too many Snapcaster and too little Tombstalker tends to push it to the control role, at which point you would need to revise the decklist to include more lands, and possibly play Jace etc.

[dahcmai]

Well, I guess I'll post over in this thread since my build is pretty close to what you guys are working on with one large exception. Unearth.

This one is much more aggressive than the ones here with a lot of redundancy. It has issues so don't copy it and expect it to perform well against everything. I have barely tested this one. It may be amazing as is, but it probably needs more tuning to shore up weaknesses. I found a huge glaring one already with it, but luckily no one plays those types of cards and I'm not telling unless the deck turns out to suck or I change it up a lot.

Basically, the games all go the same way. I rip their hand to pieces and send them into topdeck mode killing anything that hits the table. Then we play the top deck mode game. Can you top deck something that shuts me down? That's the issue with it so far. It rips into people fast. That it does and does well. Problem is the follow up. People just top deck their way out occasionally since you have no counters.

I didn't want to play Forces or Dazes due to the Bobs and discard is more mana efficient anyway. I think it works for the most part as is. Blue decks without force? omg yuracrazypersons.



4 Delver of Secrets
4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Unearth
4 Brainstorm
1 Psionic Blast
4 Diabolic Edict
3 Thoughtseize
3 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Wasteland
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
3 Swamp
2 Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Riptide Laboratory


The Stronghold has been pretty golden so far. Making for more redundancy. Nothing like chumping with Snapcasters all day and getting bonus cards for a bit. lol It's nice for reusing critters. It's definitely going to stay.

Riptides are an old trick. Nothing new there. I did actually use them to save myself when I had three bob's out at one time to race an Enchantress deck. Weird use. Chumping and avoiding kill is always decent too. Cliques have always been decent to use with it. I toss extra discard to Clique with it a lot so I can get something more appropriate to the board.

Liliana is actually pretty amazing in here and even shoved big Jace out for that spot. She just has way more synergy with the deck compared to Jace. Sounds blasphemous I know, but she just worked out better. The casting cost made a huge difference. She gets you out of sticky situations where things go out of hand sometimes too. I used her ultimate against a BUG Landstill to separate his green mana into one pile and the rest in the other. Loam or not to Loam, that is the question he faced. Heh. He decided to go to three lands again from 11 and start loaming. Not bad.

Edict came in just because it's good against everything. Playing an edict and using it twice in every game is pretty good last I heard. This is a note from seeing Mono-B control decks decimate creature light decks like Bant Aggro, Threshold, and Team America type decks. Go try it if you don't think it works. Mono-B rapes those decks. Liliana just helps this out. She's typically good for 2 edict effects against most creature heavy decks. That's as good as a Snapcaster use on a reg one.

Wastes seem like a silly addition with only 2 and it almost is. If it wasn't for annoying lands like Mishras, I might pull them. I still might pull them since you can edict a lot, I mean a lot. If I yank them out, it's going to be a Tower of the Magistrate (because Batterskull is a little bitch who needs to die) and the other spot will be one of 2 Creeping Tar Pits I plan to jam in. I really would like an attacker that goes through board sweepers like Deed and EE and avoids most chumpers.

Yes, I know it's 61 cards. It's a trademark of mine. The 61st card is the shot out of left frigging field. Psionic Blast just messes with people's heads. It's expensive to use so it's a late game thing anyway unless you just happen to catch small Knights and Goyfs an feel like making people read cards. It's best as an EOT shocker to the face for 4 points, then flash it back for another 4. Ow...


I haven't had a chance to play against much of anything so don't ask how it does against certain decks since I won't be able to tell you until later. I've only played a small tournament with it and a few extra games against Enchantress. It does do well against that deck btw. I don't mind facing that at all.

Bant Aggro seemed pretty simple with more than enough cards in my hand that had no targets with each game.

Stoneblade seems about the same way, though I did play against one with Bitterblossom and that card scares me. Go go Psionic.

This little deck goes head to head with the blue based stuff pretty well. We have a lot of good control players so I got a good workout on those.


Sideboard-
I don't even have a side board for it yet, though I have figured out to have a couple of items that seem obvious for now.

Engineered explosives. Because UB isn't real good at killing artifacts or Enchantments. I might end up with Aura Flux and Energy Flux instead. Meh, dunno.

Go for the Throats, because sometimes, edict is not enough and having a technical 21+ kill spells makes you feel all fuzzy inside.

Word of Command, because I don't like Hive Mind. Screw that deck. Killing them on turn 2 is funny too.

Perish - Because it's good I heard.

Extirpate - Because no deck can abuse them quite like this one.

Kira, Glass Spinner - Because Zoo is probably going to have an advantage having all that removal, might as well make them work for it. Seems decent. Pretty good for people who rely way too much on Swords too.



Anyway, that's my take on this style. Hope you can take something from it or prove I was on the right track already. I'll be working on it for a while. It's too fun.

[aljiichiban]

I have been playing Ubr Dreadstalker for some time. I know it belongs to the other thread, but the deck are very similar (with Tombstalker/Delver/Clique).

I haven't had success with the Ubr build for the past 2-3 weeks despite the fact that red splash for bolts/REB/Firespout is great on paper. It does improve your merfolk matchup with combination of Firespout/bolt/REB, but I think the biggest issue I have is the inconsistency of tri-color with playing only 18-19 lands.

For the longest time I was wondering how did Team America pull off a consistent tri-color manabase with Tombstalker and I realized that most TA lists are running 20+ lands. I would advice that if you're going tri-color, playing 20+ lands is required. The case is different for Canadian Thresh because the deck does not have anything that have double-color in its casting cost.

I'm still going to be playing UB or UBr Dreadstalker. I feel that the UB Delverstalker lists shouldn't be too focused on the control role. It is ultimately a tempo deck, and playing too many Snapcaster and too little Tombstalker tends to push it to the control role, at which point you would need to revise the decklist to include more lands, and possibly play Jace etc.

HI

Care to post your list or tell where the thread of U/B/r build is supposed to be? I'm also trying this build that has smother instead of fire//ice and disruption package of 3 hymn and 2/1 split of inquisition/thoughtseize with 18 lands. I'm pondering on adding an 19th land with either badlands or urborg.

[DragoFireheart]

I found a huge glaring one already with it, but luckily no one plays those types of cards and I'm not telling unless the deck turns out to suck or I change it up a lot.


Goblins? They can easily drop all of their dudes and make your sac effects unable to hit anything relevant. Their red-based removal can kill any of your creatures.

[Koby]

This is my deck for the past week. I play Thoughtseize over Hymn as it allows me to get the removal or big creature that will let the opponent race my fliers.

4x Delver
4x Tomstalker
2x Vendilion Clique

4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
3x Thoughtseize
4x Daze
3x Ponder
3x Spell Snare
4x Stifle
2x Dismember
1x Go for the Throat
1x Smother
1x Snuff Out

4x Delta
4x Misty
4x U.Sea
4x Waste
2x Island
2x Swamp

I think the Go for the Throat or Smother should become another Thoughtseize. The goal is to disrupt and then race with your fliers. Having multiples of any of your fliers turns into a blisteringly fast clock but even one Delver is often enough.

This deck is beautiful, but I still think it wants at least 2 Hymns maindeck. I do agree that Smother is criminally underplayed, and Spell Snare might have something to do with that.

[dahcmai]

Goblins? They can easily drop all of their dudes and make your sac effects unable to hit anything relevant. Their red-based removal can kill any of your creatures.


Luckily I meant cards that aren't played at all anymore. Old school stuff.

Goblins sees quite a bit of play. I haven't tested that one yet so I have no idea on how it does. I can imagine it has about the same result as mono-B control since the deck has close to the same kill density. However that turned out anyway. No idea on how Mono-B control did against it, but it should turn out the same if it gives you an idea.