[Article] 43 Spells (No Goyf, 17 lands)

[GGoober]

So I saw this article: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/legacy/23004_43_Spellsdec.html

I like his take on Tempo Thresh, I like his ideas and 'innovations' and approach towards being as consistent with 1-land etc.

BUT:

If you take a step out of his argument and just consider -4 Goyf -1 Ponder, +2 Mental Note, +3 Lavamancer, it's a little hard to think about what you truly gain from dropping 4 goyfs. It is not that hard to hit 2 lands with a deck with 8 cantrips, except he plays 7 cantrips with 17 lands. At least get those Mental Notes into Preordains O_O

Anyway, the list itself isn't too innovative from the existing well-performing Tempo Thresh. I know many people have considered dropping Goyfs for Mongoose and playing Delver + Lavamancer + Mongoose MD so his idea isn't a fresh one. But the Mental Notes were definitely 'fresh', or should I say, a nostalgic legacy of what was once thresh'd Werebear

Historically, Mental Note is terrible if you want a spell whose sole purpose is to cantrip and get Lavamancer an extra activation or the rare occasion of milling chaff off a bad brainstorm, then you need to work on optimizing your lines of plays, when to use lavamancer when you need to, when you should use your cantrips e.g. with a fetch in play etc)

[dahcmai]

Reminds me of the current RUG Tempo lists that have been popping up a lot lately GP and SCG. I still like Goyfs over Mongeese, but each has it's advantages. Mental Note isn't too bad since you are trying for actual Threshold. It is a fairly quick way to start getting it without sacrificing too much in the way of mana costs ala Strategic Planning or not helping the Thresh part and lavamancers, but running Preordain.

I do like Lavamancers a lot right now. It's really amazing vs a lot of stuff. I played Patriot enough to know they are golden against just about everything out there. I can see bring those in if you're weak to Fish or Stoneforge.

Considering I haven't played Tempo Thresh, RUG, whatever, I can't say what it's weaknesses are to shore up and decide on whether or not that's a bad trade off or not to be honest though. I can just see how he came up with the trade offs.

[caiomarcos]

I don't think that lavamancer (or even mongoose or delver) can add significant pressure on their own or be treated as finishers, like he says - "The threats are all designed to win the game on their own and put pressure". Any combination of two of those yes, if not taken care of.
Another thing is the non sinergy of mongoose and lavamancer. Everyone knows that after a few turns of active mancer your grave already looks quite thin, then, if you want to add real pressure by having two threats, lavamancer and mongoose is not an ideal combination. He tries to address that (that real pressure only happens if you have two of those creatures inplay) different times but I still think he is overestimating the power of a Delver or mongoose after the early game. I can easily imagine this deck frantically looking for a threat middle game, no matter how much disruption you might have, the opponent will be able to land a few of his own and force you to lose a delver to removal or a mongoose in combat, thats the time where you drop Jace, a 6/7 goyf or a Stalker or whatever, but this list has nothing like that.
Team America has the same game plan with lots of cheap eraly disruption and some early threats but it does not stop there.

[Cthuloo]

I've not tried the writer's list, but, as a Tempo Threshold player, I second caiomarcos remarks. Moongoose is very often yuor best creature, and Lavamancer can be quite back-breaking in some matchups, but there are times were you just need a fast clock to quickly capitalize on your tempo advantage. Experienced combo players, in particular, can find a way to play around your disruption if you don't put them under a short clock.

[John Cox]

I agree with the two above me, but if you want the best one drops out there mongoose and lavamacer are those cards. I think whats key here is that mongoose is still great in matches where lavamancer isn't (combo especially) while lavamancer can out class mongoose in other matches (Stone blade, zoo, merfolk etc...)

[Zilla]

I don't want to be that asshole that harps on semantics, but god damn it it's "across the gamut", not "across the gambit". Gambit doesn't even fucking make sense in that sentence. I wouldn't have said anything but he did it twice in the same article.

As for the list, Mental Note seems really subpar at this point.

Also, I think the argument against Goyf is pretty silly. Sure, it's just a "dumb beater" but at least it can attack into a Mishra's Factory. I think the author too casually downplays goyf's metagame presence. Being in less than literally every deck in the format can still equal lots and lots. Having a bigger threat to support your faster ones still makes sense, particularly when it only costs two. It may no longer be the new hotness, but goyf is still the most efficient beater ever printed, and I don't think a compelling reason was made not to run it.

Lastly, Lavamancer + Mongoose feels shitty. Tempo Thresh is a deck that absolutely MUST capitalize on its tempo gains in the early game or it will flat out lose to its opponents' bigger threats in the midgame. When two of the deck's three threats effectively cancel each other out, you're regularly going to be unable to seal the deal before your opponent regains his footing. Incidentally, that's one of the reasons that goyf is such an obvious inclusion - outside of maybe Mongoose, no other threat in that slot can end the game on its own faster than Goyf can.

The choice in this deck should be between goose and lavamancer in the maindeck. Goyf still feels like a no-brainer to me.