[SCD] Back to Basics

[Iron Buddha]

How good is it? Some people here claim that it's so good, but I actually can't believe it.

As I see it BtB is best suited for aggressive tempo decks like Merfolk, which have a rather bad lategame compared to control decks; however, through BtB they keep those slow control decks in check, BtB gives them an incredible lategame against lategame decks (control decks).

But how good is BtB in MUC? My feeling is that it's rather weak, because MUC already has the tools to beat other control decks, since they run counterspell, Fact or Fiction, Jace TMS, Cryptic Command, loads of mana, etc.

Who does profit the most of BtB? Slow decks, aggressive decks? MUC?
Is BtB good in the current metagame?

What do you think? Discuss

[KobeBryan]

How good is it? Some people here claim that it's so good, but I actually can't believe it.

As I see it BtB is best suited for aggressive tempo decks like Merfolk, which have a rather bad lategame compared to control decks; however, through BtB they keep those slow control decks in check, BtB gives them an incredible lategame against lategame decks (control decks).

But how good is BtB in MUC? My feeling is that it's rather weak, because MUC already has the tools to beat other control decks, since they run counterspell, Fact or Fiction, Jace TMS, Cryptic Command, loads of mana, etc.

Who does profit the most of BtB? Slow decks, aggressive decks? MUC?
Is BtB good in the current metagame?

What do you think? Discuss

Its primarily used to stop mutlicolor aggro decks, such as zoo, maverick. Merfolk has the ability to vial things in so in. They cannot outrace zoo or maverick so the best thing to do is resource denial.

I dont' think its that great. I prefer having removal.

[serendib]

Back to basics (http://magiccards.info/query?q=back+to+basics&v=card&s=cname) is a strong card:

look at these decks:

canadian thresh
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51144

new horizon
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51145

BUG-snapcaster
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51154

team america
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6961&iddeck=50490

UGR Faeries
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51173

ZOO
http://thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=7050&iddeck=51167

guess what happens if back to basics hits the board against those decks. :eek:

BACK TO BASICS is to my view a control-decks' card.
I play it in a UWB control deck with a manabase immune to back to basics or denial
usually: back to basics + wrath of god means GG vs 50% of opponents

[ThoSha]

Rather than playing Back to Basics in a Control deck, i'd play Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon in Aggro; Aggro/Control.

Nevertheless its a very solid card.

[Kich867]

If you tap out against a deck with B2B or you don't have some basics in your deck, you generally lose. I've only come back once or twice with a clutch vindicate after my creatures were stolen VS MUC.

[Iron Buddha]

But isn't running a simple early-game counter, removal, bounce just flat out better to improve the early-game? BtB is probably rather something to seal the deal over the long run, but then it competes for slos with Shackles, Facts, Jace, Crpytics.
My reasoning is that BtB is indeed better than those lategame bombs to get reach if you're running an aggressive deck.

Blood Moon is red, doesn't count. :cool:

[ThoSha]

Now that comment really made me want to build Imperial Painter
to drive over some U/X/x lemmings. :P
Blue seems to be the only language people in legacy understand. Thats sad.

[Iron Buddha]

okay, that was stupid. I meant I can't run Blood Moon in MUC.

[ThoSha]

Ok thats another story. Wasnt B2B always a Sideboard card in MUC?

[Kich867]

Ok thats another story. Wasnt B2B always a Sideboard card in MUC?

My general practice partner plays MUC and posts pretty frequently on the MUC thread, he runs B2B mainboard, and against certain decks a resolved B2B results in a scoop. Most decks in legacy aren't mono colored, against decks that are mono colored in g1 you have free pitches to force / still apply to their non basic lands like Cradle / Mutavault.

It's somewhat like Daze, once you know they're running it you rarely tap out if you don't know what their hand is--with B2B, you're hesitant to tap non basics. It's powerful because it's like, if you aren't prepared for it you might as well scoop, recovering takes too many turns and you're going up against MUC, you're not going to resolve anything and you'll die--if you are prepared for it, you probably won a counter-war or have to fetch basics until you can get it off the board, which you probably won't be able to resolve.

[phonics]

I would think that when the opponent is not prepared for it, it usually becomes a one sided armageddon and when they are playing around it, it gives you tempo since they are hesitant to tap out which limits how threatening they can be against muc.

[danpo]

Back to Basics was a four-of in Mono-Blue Control a couple years ago, and it was incredible with Propaganda.
I played with that deck against Domain Zoo at a side event at nationals. Third-turn Propaganda, fourth-turn Back to Basics, turn five Shackles your Goyf? The combo players on either side of that match were amazed when less than ten minutes into the round the mono-blue guy was handing in two wins against pure aggro.
But nowadays MUC relying on Back to Basics seems miserable against Merfolk . And many of the decks I'd want to be locking out with Back to Basics I'd say Choke hoses just as well, while ruining Merfolk's weekend to boot.

[catmint]

As a BUG (and TA) player I of course lost some games to blood moon, choke or back to basics. I cannot evaluate the strength of these cards overall, because I never played a deck where such a tech would be apropriate.

From the BUG perspecitve I can tell you that it depends on which deck is playing this tech. If Merfolk sides in Back to basics or Patriot sides in Blood Moon, it is much scarier than if Maverick sides in choke or Dragon Stompys main deck blood moon.

Versus decks where it is all about pernicious deed and you can defend yourself with simple discard, spell pierce and Force of Will this techs are not that scary. Decks that run counters and can force it through are rough and you are forced to be very pro active.

[damionblackgear]

How good is it?

But how good is BtB in MUC? My feeling is that it's rather weak, because MUC already has the tools to beat other control decks, since they run counterspell, Fact or Fiction, Jace TMS, Cryptic Command, loads of mana, etc.

Who does profit the most of BtB? Slow decks, aggressive decks? MUC?
Is BtB good in the current metagame?

What do you think? Discuss

It's fine. Cards like Moon (both) and Choke are similar and are used in decks accordingly (based on what people think they'll want/need). I'd run it if I could play around it (Folk, MUC) because landing it can just win you a game. You don't have to (and you shouldn't) run 4. but any number under that may turn to be useful. Besides, Most people don't play around moon effect, why would they play against B2B until they see it?

The card's been maindeck'd in MUC before, as a 2-3 of. It's strong enough to make the main at times, I'd say it's pretty good in MUC. You shut down a lot of decks just by landing it early and stealing their creatures with Shackles.

Profit...hmm. Well. Honestly, whoever plans around it wins. If you play a 2-3 color deck and fetch basics, you're probably going to be the one to make it work. It doesn't help if you're Pathing your own creatures but someone else Pathing yours helps you. Then again, if someone's Pathing, and they see that card get played, they may path their own creature to find the basic to get it off the field.

[Malchar]

I've played with blood moon a lot, and one of the difficulties is that it gets much much worse once the opponent starts playing around it. Using something like rishadan port to complement the strategy helps to avoid this problem. Back to Basics forces the opponent to fetch basics instead of duals. Once they start doing that, you can shut them down much easier using something like port or even stone rain to completely turn off a color. Of course, land destruction is generally bad, and even port isn't used very often anymore, which relegates cards like B2B and moon to being nothing more than one shot "tricks" that randomly win sometimes, but once the opponent figures it out, the cards are dead. Certain decks like Dragon Stompy or Mono Blue Control can make huge surges in the meta for a while, but they never last the test of time.

[Octopusman]

So you port their island once and then they untap it next turn while port remains tapped?
Seems like a bad idea.

[Malchar]

Yea, I guess that's why it never really caught on.

[Octopusman]

Don't misunderstand me, though. If I played MUC anymore I would run B2B all day long. It's miles better than Blood Moon even though they're hard to compare due to how the rests of their respective decks have to be built to maximize synergy (another mtg "no duh" statement).
I have had a 4C Landstill deck hardcast batterskull and ride it to victory with Moon active, for example.

Back to Basics can provide an autowon more than Blood Moon. The timing is different, but your opponent has to tap land sometimes unless:
1) they're Ichorid
2) they have vial active
3) they're Folk
4) they're combo

What's ironic is that it's time again for manabases to be greedy (missstep goes the way of the dodo). So we see more Stifle, and manabases don't feel very threatened.
However, we are also seeing more BUG, Snapcaster, Thresh, and Zoo. Even though these decks play greedy manabases, they are pro at casting 1CMC spell. They're fast, resilient, consistent, or all of the above.
Sometimes, they can dig.
(This highlights another major difference between Moon and B2B because a player can still get colored mana from a new land drop against b2B whereas Moon makes most players only able to get one colorless or one red depending as well as (!) removing non mana land abilities which is huge).

Perhaps a better Root Maze will be printed and we can get a better strategy going with B2B.