[Deck] Fogalocolypse (U/G Fog)

[Kich867]

*** Excuse the title, it's actually B/G Fog, I was speaking to my roommate about a RUG deck when I was making this and had one of those "write it because I'm saying it" moments ***

This deck is an evolution of a concept I saw spoken about long, long ago. It actually seems like a viable deck, albeit susceptible to graveyard hate--I feel it's entirely possible to play around these, as the deck doesn't aim to win quickly and is just constantly aggressive.

It abuses Spore Frog with Oath of Ghouls (to which you'll surely have more creatures in your yard than they do) so that every turn they swing you can just sac it on their declare attackers step, get it back during your upkeep, and play it again.

Oath of Ghouls also makes it easier to continuously recur Vengevines. You can set up a soft-fog-lock while swinging each turn with creatures that will come back the next turn if they die.

//Creatures: 26
4x Spore Frog
4x Bloodghast
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Vengevine
3x Fauna Shaman

//Spells: 12
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Buried Alive

//Enchantments: 4
4x Oath of Ghouls

//Lands: 18
4x Wasteland
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
1x Forest
1x Swamp

//Sideboard: 15
2x Mindbreak Trap
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Krosan Grip
2x Reverent Silence
3x Choke

I wanted to run 22 lands, so I felt like it would be better to just run 4x BoP's to help recur vengevines and provide acceleration.

The sideboard is kind of geared towards dealing with graveyard hate. Reverent silence blows up leylines, K-grip's hit crypts and relics. Anti-blue, reanimator, and storm cards in there too.

[Nameless Two]

If you go for the slow-winning route through Spore Frog recursion I'm afraid you'll get burned out by some decks. Especially if you play Dark Confidants for card draw. Maybe introduce some sort of lifegain? Jittes perhaps or Vampire Nighthawk. You could even consider Sword of Light and Shadow as an alternative recursion tool.

[damionblackgear]

As an option outside of Oath, what about Oversold Cemetery? It does not work for your opponents and won't be dead if you're playing against either Aggro-Loam or Dredge.

Also, some type of graveyard hate would be helpful (especially if you do keep Oath) so that they don't gain the advantage that you'll give up over time.

[Kich867]

As an option outside of Oath, what about Oversold Cemetery? It does not work for your opponents and won't be dead if you're playing against either Aggro-Loam or Dredge.

Also, some type of graveyard hate would be helpful (especially if you do keep Oath) so that they don't gain the advantage that you'll give up over time.

Perhaps Scavenging Ooze?

Bob's were originally Sylvan Library, but I felt like I needed more creatures--maybe I don't and I could still just use Sylvan Library and just aim for card quality over quantity?

[kiblast]

Why Wasteland? It seems you don't need it at all. It only makes your manabase weaker.

[Greenpoe]

Why Wasteland? It seems you don't need it at all. It only makes your manabase weaker.

Wasteland is one of the best cards in the format. That's why 3-color decks like Team America that need UU for Clique/Jace and BB for Hymn and G for Goyf still run Wasteland. It's like asking, "Why Brainstorm?" The real question is, why only 3 Hymn and not 4? And why Duress over Inquistion or Thoughtseize?

[Kich867]

The reasoning for Duress over IOK or Thoughtseize is fairly simple. Thoughtseize is fantastic in a deck where the purpose is to remove something useful but not something specific. Duress removes specific things: they bait counters and get rid of removal or problematic graveyard hate cards. Thoughtseize does this too, but it can also hit creatures! And that's great. But I don't care about your creatures, because I ignore them. Spore Frog makes them largely useless outside of activated abilities. The only actual difference between Thoughtseize and Duress is that Duress can't hit creatures and if I would never discard a creature card from your hand anyway why would I hurt myself for it?

IOK is narrow, it doesn't hit Force or Jace and that's reason enough for me to want to run Duress (they wouldn't force an IOK if they had multiple blue cards to discard to it unless they absolutely did -not- want you to see their hand).

In regards to running 3 hymns, I don't really know. I wanted 9-10 discard, I wouldn't want to drop a Duress or Cabal Therapy down anymore since they're quite good as well. Sometimes being able to remove something specific is, again, better than removing two random things (ignoring caveats like when they only have 2 cards in hand). So I'll still see Hymn's, maybe not so many, but given my ~9 discard slots, it means I'll be seeing more Cabal's or Duress', which I'm alright with. However, maybe 9-10 is too much, and I could just drop down to something like 7 or 8 and add some maindeck removal (Maelstrom Pulse or Ghastly Demise or something).

Wasteland was discussed.

I agree on the necessity of graveyard hate and Scavenging Ooze seems to be the most solid candidate. I might drop Goyf down to a 2 of and make a 2/2 split of them (Goyf is an awkward fit for the deck, he was included because he's kind of a big boss hog but he doesn't actually have to be there).

I'm wondering if I could drop Bob for a 2/2 split of Sylvan Library and Life from the Loam, the dredge would be useful for filling up the yard with creatures and keeping the recursion up while allowing me to do some waste-locking if it gets to that (the mana investment to recur vengevines is 3-4 and it would open up being able to bring back bloodghasts no matter what via fetches).

[Admiral_Arzar]

I agree that Wasteland doesn't belong in this deck (especially with only 18 lands, which seems uber greedy). Also, you should consider Green Sun's Zenith. It fetches beaters, accelerates mana with Dryad Arbor, and tutors for Spore Frog.

[kiblast]

Wasteland is one of the best cards in the format. That's why 3-color decks like Team America that need UU for Clique/Jace and BB for Hymn and G for Goyf still run Wasteland. It's like asking, "Why Brainstorm?" The real question is, why only 3 Hymn and not 4? And why Duress over Inquistion or Thoughtseize?

Yes, but TA also runs Daze. And also runs Brainstorm. Those 2 cards alone make Wasteland 100% more effective, and at the same time Brainstorm/fetch helps not getting screwed by shuffling back useless Wastelands.
I don't see Daze, nor Brainstorm (or Kotr or Port, which are other good reasons to run Wasteland). Why this deck should need Wasteland? While being incredibly good, is not an auto 4 of in each legacy deck. Please elaborate why Waste should be here.

[Kich867]

I'm running wastes because the deck basically curves out at 2 mana. On top of that, I run 4x BoP's for acceleration. I can be swayed from this position, as the arguments are completely valid, but I don't see a problem given that there are only a few cards (most of which intend to be played from the graveyard) that require a double color.

So 18 lands and 4 BoP's. Perhaps it is too greedy, I can get on that. I suppose I don't need quite so many creatures in general given that I'll be recurring at least one per turn (generally) for vengevines.

I'll take these suggestions and wisdom in mind and post a list later tonight with some updates. Thank you kindly for the input.

In the deck I feel that cabal therapy and hymn to tourach are better than duress, since saccing bloodghasts/vines/whatever to therapy is an ignorable effect with proper playing technique. So I could open up room for Green Sun's Zenith by toning down creatures and a little discard for it.

It hasn't really been touched on except that Bob seems dangerous, would you recommend Sylvan Library over him?

[Nameless Two]

I wouldn't recommend anything that lures you into losing lots of life. Between the fetches and the time it may take for you to set up the loop you may very well go down to 6-10 life. This is not a very safe life total to be at if your opponent can burn you out. (Through Siege-Gang Commander/Lightning Bolts/Snapcasters/Grim Lavamancer).

I'd either opt for no life-loss cards at all, or some lifegain to be able to afford paying some life for cardadvantage.

Your graveyard recurring theme is a way of card advantage in itself, so maybe it is not required to aggressively hunt for more cards. Between fauna shaman and buried alive you've already got a way to dig for cards. Only the enchantment might require some searching, but then again, you can win a game even if you don't manage to draw it.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Your argument for Duress over Thoughtseize doesn't make sense to me. A large majority of creatures are useful because of their abilities, not their red zone capabilities. I'd just bite it with the 2 life and play Thoughtseize.

I think some of your numbers are off. For example, there's no way Oath is better than Hymn. If you only play three Vengevine, I'd at least stick the fourth in the board. Would a single Quirion Ranger make sense to abuse Shaman.

GSZ looks like a solid addition. As a result, all your green creature counts could be lowered while maintaining consistency. You can also add bullets, like the Quirion ranger mentioned above.

I'd also recommend adding Phyrexian Revokers to the board. They are great to find with Fauna Shaman and handle cards Spore Frog can't stop.

[Kich867]

I wouldn't recommend anything that lures you into losing lots of life. Between the fetches and the time it may take for you to set up the loop you may very well go down to 6-10 life. This is not a very safe life total to be at if your opponent can burn you out. (Through Siege-Gang Commander/Lightning Bolts/Snapcasters/Grim Lavamancer).

I'd either opt for no life-loss cards at all, or some lifegain to be able to afford paying some life for cardadvantage.

Your graveyard recurring theme is a way of card advantage in itself, so maybe it is not required to aggressively hunt for more cards. Between fauna shaman and buried alive you've already got a way to dig for cards. Only the enchantment might require some searching, but then again, you can win a game even if you don't manage to draw it.

When you say no lifeloss cards at all, are you going so far as to even imply not running fetches? Just 4 Bayou's and 7 Forests / Swamps?

[xazzax]

Some ideas:

Oversold Cemetery Works similar to Oath, but still works vs Ichorid.
Street WrightNow you can use Oath like Phyrexian Arena ;)
Fleshbag Marauder or Shriekmaw

[Kich867]

Some ideas:

Oversold Cemetery Works similar to Oath, but still works vs Ichorid.
Street WrightNow you can use Oath like Phyrexian Arena ;)
Fleshbag Marauder or Shriekmaw

Street Wraith would hurt a lot XD, but I suppose it's theoretically free. Shriekmaw seems like the better of the two options: problematic things it doesn't hit are Bob and Tombstalker, but I suppose that's alright given that it kills basically every problematic creature (oh and batterskull I guess too).

This has a weird maverick-y look to it.. Core of creatures, toolbox of mostly fetchable creatures, some tutoring, some utility from each color.

[Kich867]

Here's the list I'm looking at right now:

//Creatures: 22
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Spore Frog
3x Bloodghast
3x Vengevine
3x Shriekmaw
2x Tarmogoyf
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Scavenging Ooze

//Spells: 15
3x Buried Alive
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughtseize

//Enchantments: 3
3x Oversold Cemetery

//Lands: 20
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
4x Forest
4x Swamp

//Sideboard: (Still in construction) 15
1x Vengevine
3x Krosan Grip
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Reverent Silence
3x Choke
3x Mindbreak Trap


I added a bit of a toolbox of creatures. Having a fetchable recurring spot removal (if I have the cemetery out) seems extremely ideal.

I upped the lands to be a little more stable and resilient to wastelands / blood moon / back to basics. I wish I had a way to find the cemetery, but as it stands I think it's alright. The deck doesn't necessarily hinge on landing the enchantment but it sure helps. I'm still debating between whether I want 3 or 4 of them, perhaps I could board one for the anticipated bringing in of enchantment removal.

[Nameless Two]

Maybe a lone Dryad Arbor? That could increase your chances of getting a good 1 drop. And I kind of liked the Cabal Therapy and Birds of Paradise. I don't really know how to fit em in though... they do give you a good way of putting more creatures in your graveyard while stripping your opponents hand (also good with Thoughtseize/Duress. And triggering the vengevines is more easily accomplished with birds of paradise too. Maybe drop a few Spore Frogs for some? I mean, between GSZ/Fauna Shaman/Buried alive you should be able to find one easily enough?

I guess it's up to you to test wether Hymn is better than Therapy in this deck.

[Mr. Safety]

My humble opinion:

Play 4 Fauna Shamans
Play 4 Vengevines

Add in 4 Basking Rootwallas

GSZ also opens up singletons of Eternal Witness, Viridian Zealot/Shaman, and Scryb Ranger.

I know it's old tech (really old tech from old Survival decks) but Squee can help you with the Shaman engine. TBH, Bloodghast, Vengevine, and Basking Rootwalla are better discards for FShaman anyways, and with 4 of each, that's a full 12 abusable dudes.

I'd also be really tempted to try out Stinkweed Imp...so I can have a perpetual blocker that also dredges my yard for Vengevine/Bloodghast abuse. This may seem crazy, but I'd also want to try Avatar of Discord. It's risky (and dies to Bolts) but it can also enable your graveyard in a fast way.

Last thought (and then I'll stop trolling): would Dark Ritual help, especially with the Buried Alive plan?

[Ahab]

Some thoughts concerning the decks gameplan:

Spore frog sucks against removal. If you depend on it's fog ability, your opponent will build an army and EOT remove your frog.
Maybe you see spore frog more as a bumper, it buys you time so you can assemble vengevines (imho bloodghast is not good enough) and your deck is more like a midrange/rock type of deck. In that case moment's peace would probably be better.
Also, your deck loses to graveyard hate, which is abundant (at least here in austria).

[igri_is_a_bk]

You probably want some mana accelerant. Birds and a Dryad Arbor would help a lot so you can ramp into turn two Buried Alive.

I think you should run 4 Buried Alive to go busted turn three. My other suggestion is 4 Vengevine since they'll get plowed. Could you take out any Spore Frog? Do you need 4 copies?

[Kich867]

Some thoughts concerning the decks gameplan:

Spore frog sucks against removal. If you depend on it's fog ability, your opponent will build an army and EOT remove your frog.
Maybe you see spore frog more as a bumper, it buys you time so you can assemble vengevines (imho bloodghast is not good enough) and your deck is more like a midrange/rock type of deck. In that case moment's peace would probably be better.
Also, your deck loses to graveyard hate, which is abundant (at least here in austria).

The graveyard hate thing, yeah, sort of. Recurring graveyard hate, sure, but the idea that an opponent would amass an army (and by army I'm assuming 5 or more creatures) and I would have..nothing to defend myself with, seems like a silly notion. If anything, my deck would amass an army much faster, as I could simply BA for 3x Venge/Bloodghast and pump out ~5 creatures in one turn if I have a decent set of cards in my hand.

To the idea that Spore Frogs will just be removed, well..that seems ideal doesn't it? By all means, bolt/sword my spore frog. That would be dandy-fantastic.

Game 2 graveyard hate, the nice thing about graveyard hate is it's easy to see coming since it has to be on the table, it's easy to play around and deal with when most of the hate comes from artifacts that my sideboard is equipped to handle. It will go slower, but I'm not too worried about speed. That was the reasoning behind dropping BOP's. Arbor was an oversight they're supposed to be the 3rd forest.

Basking Rootwalla's are way, way too weak. I have no mass discard outlet like Wild Mongrel or Aquamoeba. I'd rather be spending my time recurring Shriekmaw's (which count towards Vengevine) and Spore Frog's to keep them at bay.

The reasoning behind Bloodghasts is simple, they're a constant. If I have 3 Bloodghasts out and you have 2 creatures, I'm swinging out with them. Always. I'd certainly like birds back in the deck too, but I'd basically drop my toolbox for them--does that seem like the correct decision? Consistency VS Flexibility is definitely something to think about.

I'll go back to a more consistent / faster setup, something like this:

//Creatures: 22
4x Fauna Shaman
4x Birds of Paradise
3x Spore Frog
3x Bloodghast
3x Vengevine
3x Shriekmaw
2x Tarmogoyf


//Spells: 15
3x Buried Alive
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Thoughtseize

//Enchantments: 3
3x Oversold Cemetery

//Lands: 20
4x Bayou
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Marsh Flats
3x Forest
4x Swamp
1x Dryad Arbor

//Sideboard: (Still in construction) 15
1x Vengevine
3x Krosan Grip
3x Surgical Extraction
2x Reverent Silence
3x Choke
3x Mindbreak Trap

[Kich867]

I playtested the list a lot the past few nights, and some conclusions I've come to:

Tarmogoyf is by far the weakest link in the deck. I almost never want to see him, I never fetch for him, I never use him, he's a decent wall but that's..about it. Vengevines and Bloodghasts are almost universally chosen over him (almost in that I frequently grab a spore frog or a shriekmaw otherwise) based on the situation.

Bloodghasts are good, they're easier to swarm out and they're quite relentless. Cabal Therapy may come back in over thoughtseize given how easy they are to recur.

The cemetary was stone-cold nuts vs some decks. Decks that don't run a ton of removal have quite an issue with Spore Frog, decks that do have trouble dealing with the recursion, and when the graveyard hate comes out I just need to play smart and bear through it.

I'd like to swap Tarmogoyf for something else, maybe Scavenging Ooze which has been a total boss in testing another deck I play.. A Scavenging Ooze and an Eternal Witness would be nice.

[Infinitium]

Fleshbag Marauder would also be a consideration to diversify your removal suite (granted Shriekmaw already hits Emrakul, and Spore Frog deals with Progenitus but there are still Bob/Stalker/whathaveyou to contend with).

[Kich867]

Fleshbag Marauder would also be a consideration to diversify your removal suite (granted Shriekmaw already hits Emrakul, and Spore Frog deals with Progenitus but there are still Bob/Stalker/whathaveyou to contend with).

Yeah, that's been something on my mind, the marauder can get around protections and whatnot so I may drop a shriekmaw for him.

Genesis was also added to the deck as a singleton during playtesting. Around turn 4 I fetch him, discard him to find something else, and if they don't have an immediate answer to spore frog I can stabilize and beat them down through it (if no cemetery has been found).