Frankenstein's Monster

[Michael Keller]

Wording:

Mana Cost: XBB
CMC: 2

As Frankenstein's Monster enters the battlefield, exile X creature cards from your graveyard. If you can't, put Frankenstein's Monster into its owner's graveyard instead of onto the battlefield. For each creature card exiled this way, Frankenstein's Monster enters the battlefield with a +2/+0, +1/+1, or +0/+2 counter on it.

So just out of curiousity, if I were to reanimate the Monster some way, am I to understand it dies? The 'X' to be paid is a required mana cost, so I assume it just dies. (Or never enters play.)

[Offler]

Hmm. It depends...

What is P/T of this creature? Also can X be 0?

Primordial Hydra

Its bit similar to your monster, but... X can be 0.

When reanimated it will die immediately, because its toughness is 0 (X was not paid) unless it will be boosted by some other effect...

If we take primordial hydra and add sentence "X can't be 0" it will create paradox when reanimating the creature. This is something that should not be printed ever... (or be satisfied by some non-logical ruling).

But if you take your monster and pay 0 for X, you have to remove 0 creatures from your graveyard. Then you will proceed, remove zero creatures, and the monster will enter battlefield with zero counters. If its toughness is 0 or less it will die.

[Michael Keller]

Right, but its printed power and toughness is still a 0/1 - even if X is 0, so it shouldn't die for that reason.

[Tammit67]

Does it try to enter play? Cool, now you are forced to exile X creatures. Oh X is zero? Exile 0 creatures. Now it can come into play. It remains a 0/1.

[Michael Keller]

Does it try to enter play? Cool, now you are forced to exile X creatures. Oh X is zero? Exile 0 creatures. Now it can come into play. It remains a 0/1.

That still doesn't answer my question.

'X' is a mana cost that must be paid at the time you cast or play F.M. from your hand, in addition to exiling the 'X' number of creatures as you pay that cost.


If you can't, put Frankenstein's Monster into its owner's graveyard instead of onto the battlefield.

Because you can't pay X when you bring it into play by some other means (a la reanimation or some other way), then that clause would kill him, right? It's just a bit confusing because the newer wording forces you to select any 'X' numbers of creatures in your graveyard and apply that to the CMC. Because the 'X' is still a part of his mana cost, it would make sense that if you can't pay that mana if you cheat him into play somehow, that he would simply die (which is additionally confusing because he is a 0/1.)

Basically, I just want to know what happens if he is reanimated into play.

[Offler]

There is logical error in clause:

"If you can't, put Frankenstein's Monster into its owner's graveyard instead of onto the battlefield."

Unless else specified you may pay even 0 and then remove zero creatures and monster enters battlefield.

However if you pay 5 mana, while there are 4 or less creatures in your grave, you cannot remove enough creatures and in this situation the monster will go into grave via this effect.

If reanimated x will be zero, no creatures will be removed from grave, and monster enters battlefield as 0/1.

Its also not possible to print similar card with "X cant be 0" clause. If this clause will be present on the card (as it does not seem from the first post) it will create problem in base game logic...

[Tammit67]

That still doesn't answer my question.

'X' is a mana cost that must be paid at the time you cast or play F.M. from your hand, in addition to exiling the 'X' number of creatures as you pay that cost.


Well, the exiling of creatures is not an additional cost, and happens if he would come into play (in most cases as he resolves). And it does answer your question. If you reanimate him, x is treated as zero. You are forced to exile 0 creatures (and you can't choose not to). He comes into play at his printed power/toughness.



Because you can't pay X when you bring it into play by some other means (a la reanimation or some other way), then that clause would kill him, right? It's just a bit confusing because the newer wording forces you to select any 'X' numbers of creatures in your graveyard and apply that to the CMC. Because the 'X' is still a part of his mana cost, it would make sense that if you can't pay that mana if you cheat him into play somehow, that he would simply die (which is additionally confusing because he is a 0/1.)

Basically, I just want to know what happens if he is reanimated into play.

Ok, I cast exhume, and you have FM in your grave, and only him. You select him. The game sees him coming into play and goes "hold on, if FM is about to come into play, first you must exile X creatures. But since you used exhume, X is treated as 0, since you can't sink mana into it. You MUST exile 0 creatures. Now he can come into play". He comes in as a 0/1 after you remove nothing.

[Malchar]

107.3f If a card in any zone other than the stack has an {X} in its mana cost, the value of {X} is treated as 0, even if the value of X is defined somewhere within its text.

107.3g All instances of X on an object have the same value at any given time.

So when Frankenstein's Monster is in your graveyard, the value of X in its mana cost is treated as 0. Consequently, all instances of X on the card are treated as 0. When you reanimate Frankenstein's Monster, and its ability is applied, you must exile 0 creature cards from your graveyard, which is always possible. Since you were able to do that, Frankenstein's Monster enters the battlefield with zero counters on it, and it is a 0/1 creature.

Notes:
1. You do not get to choose the value for X. It is treated as 0.
2. It is always possible to exile zero creatures, so Frankenstein's Monster will always survive its own ability if it enters the battlefield without having its mana cost paid.