Ux Stiflenought - the Aftermath

[death]

Ux Stiflenought Primer


Prelude
Ux Stiflenought is an adaptation of Dreadstill to the current meta of Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mages (namely RUG, BUG, UW and recently UR). The difference between this and traditional builds is the approach in design, that is to commence bug crushing/face smashing for 12 damage by turn 2.

The following cards are notably absent from this build:

Standstill
Counterbalance
Mishra's Factory
Wasteland


Those are plainly not the superior choices in a hyper-aggressive strategy that involves outracing a meta of faster paced tempo decks. Instead the following cards were chosen:

Vision Charm
Worldly (Enlightened) Tutor
Gitaxian Probe
Lotus Petal



Reasons to play this build
Because of its speed, it can end things swiftly. If you're into counterwars, that is where this deck does its best. A streamlined list which is aimed to take control of the stack.



Matchup Analysis
Favorable: Mid-range aggro, Canadian **** (RUG), Team America (BUG), Stoneblade (UWx), Bant, Storm combo (ANT/TES/High Tide), Goblins, Burn

Variable: Hive Mind, Reanimator, Painter

Unfavorable: MUD, Stax and Counterbalance. All of which happens to be at an all time low.



Card Selection
http://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/foil_mtg_promo109.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_tem157.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_all054.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_mmq087.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_commander_103.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_roe008.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_2010_217.jpghttp://www.mythicmtg.com/images/products/thumbs/mtg_nphr035.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8827/35136110.png




Updated Decklists
UW Prototype by death 12.01.11
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Island

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
1 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 Not of This World
1 Pithing Needle
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Lotus Petal




(I will add to this post the most recent successful lists once results come in)

[death]

UG Stiflenought 11-11-11

4 Tropical Island
1 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
1 Trickbind
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection
1 Not of This World
3 Worldly Tutor
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Lotus Petal

[Poron]

if you play G go for tarmogoyf. If you need only Worldy Tutor (from the splash), go white and take Enlightned Tutor.

It gives you, such a better toolbox...

[Suneloon]

.. and you could one-off torper orb.

[Offler]

Have seen similar builds. One or two torpor orbs, one or four Snapcasters to flashback the stifle...

Seems decent to me.

[catmint]

The deck is obviuosly all-in on Dreadnought. Problem with that is that if they are able to counter/sword/ee/,... they get a 2:1. That is just normal with dreadnought, however the problem is with techs like lotus petal and wordly tutor, they can get a 3 for 1.

Also Wasteland is very important to bring a synergy with Stifle AND especially because you cannot beat Maze of Ith.

[Suneloon]

Have seen similar builds. One or two torpor orbs, one or four Snapcasters to flashback the stifle...

Seems decent to me.

I think it's orbs OR snapcaster. The dis-synergy is just to great to play both.

[Choux]

I would play 2/3 Island and 3/2 trop ( you just need G once, maybe twice in the game, and against smallpox/sinkhole + waste your are not in so good spot with so many non-basic )

I also guess some elvish spirit guide maybe ?

You can play 2/3 Wasteland Btw because Dreadnought cost 1.


Well nothing more to say :)

[death]

A white splash seems a more practical idea. I especially like the E. Tutor for Lotus Petal play better than going for a 3:1 ESG split. Pithing Needle and Torpor Orb are accessible post-board, also Ethersworn Canonist. Although a green splash is still better if you are expecting a lot of Counterbalance in your meta.
As for Goyf, he is nothing more than a wall at the moment so I don’t feel the need for him. Goyf lacks evasion and often not enough to deal with an opposing Goyf plus flyer or KotR. Nothing beats a good ol’ fashioned crashing in for 12. Goyfs merely clutter the list, imo.



The deck is obviuosly all-in on Dreadnought. Problem with that is that if they are able to counter/sword/ee/,... they get a 2:1. That is just normal with dreadnought, however the problem is with techs like lotus petal and wordly tutor, they can get a 3 for 1.

Also Wasteland is very important to bring a synergy with Stifle AND especially because you cannot beat Maze of Ith.

Reason why I cut the chaff for more protection, enabler and tutor. With maindeck Vision Charms, you have extra Stifles available to seal your win. Initially I had access to 3 Not of This World, 2 coming from the sideboard. Now there's Pithing Needle which is great with E. tutor.

[Inf3rnalOn3]

I also play with Dreadnought, and my biggest worry or pain to deal with is Split Second. Krosan Grip comes in against almost anyone playing green, and you don't have any say about the nought dying. The second is Extirpate. One nought in the yard, and then you have none. True, many more people are playing Surgical Extraction, but I thought I'd play devil's advocate and just ask what you intend to do in the event that you have no critters.

[Poron]

my own version. it totally loses to Extirpate and Krosan Grips. For anything else, there's a situational answear.


4 Vision Charm it saves your PD so many times.. it's just another 1cc hard-counter like Flusterstorm or Dispel
3 Stifle
1 Trickbind to have your opponent realistically fear that you can splitsecond your PD in game makes him counter your PD in the first place so that gets back to a 1-1 card loss

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

2 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Reconstruction

4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Dispel
2 Flusterstorm
2 Misdirection

4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Misty Rainforest
7 Island


12 0cc (Fow, Daze, Gitaxian Probe)
27 1cc
2 2cc Trickbind

the weakest card of the deck: Ponder.

[Poron]

Fixed:


4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Vision Charm
3 Stifle
1 Trickbind

3 Vendilion Clique
3 Spellskite

4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

3 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
8 Island

SB:
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Counterbalance


till now, it seems to win quite well

[dsck]

Renegade Doppelganger could be cool.

[kiblast]

I'd play 3-4 Delver of Secrets just to have a backup win con. Yes, win con. I'm currently testing them in my UBR Nought and I won various games on the back of turn 1 Delver, turn 2 flip, Stifle+Waste package, counters. Is really that good.

[Poron]

you are indeed right, the secondary plan Spellskite + Vendilion Clique is there exactly for that purpose... with Delver of Secrets and may be 2xJace, the mind Sculptor it might become very solid

and, overall, still mono U

[Poron]

Renegade Doppelganger could be cool.

this, instead is very weak. because we already have plenty way to play/protect the Phyrexian Dreadnought, the only problem in the deck is actually to get 1 copy of it.

Once we have a PD in hand, we have way better other cards to combo with it than Renegade Doppelganger...

[jandax]

In a version I'm playing around with, Red is added for Blood Moon/Lavamang. Moon just rapes the format, and at worst the deck is only semi locking itself with a moon. 18 land/4 petal just feels iffy, and lots of times ponders and brainstorms don't even find the extra land. The whole point wtih splashing red was for Blood Moon, and with its color comes non-combat win conditions (grim) and extra counterspells to protect the main threats via Blasts. Fire/Ice is great utility, rarely irrelevant or a dead draw. It's far from tuned, but shows promise outside of a tempo oriented scene. Wasteland is just so good with Stifle, and works towards stalling them so you have time to ride a Delver or Naught to victory. It's often the plan to just stifle/WL in the early turns, land a Moon, then draw-go til a beatstick gets there. But explosive hands like turn 1 Moon or Stifle/Naught with Force backup also come about and should be exploited.

4 Naught
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Delver
2 Fire/Ice
3 Flusterstorm
4 Force
4 Vision Charm
3 Blood Moon
4 Petal
3 Grim Lavamancer

3 island
1 mountain
2 volc
4 waste
8 fetch

[Clark Kant]

A deck similar to this (more aggressive version of Dreadstill) existed for sometime now.

Here are two sample builds...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?20630-Deck-Charmed-Dreadnought

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?12531-Deck-DreadStalker

It played the same pieces as above, but also played Tombstalker because that card too synergizes with cards like Vision Charm.

I think that would be a worthwhile route to explore as well. Tombstalker does a great job of shutting down aggro and serving as an agressive beatstick.

I think the former route would be very strong in this aggressive meta since it provides 12 blocks to fast aggro, Goyf, Tombstalker and Dreadnought.

[ImpinAintEasy]

I've been messing around with a build on MTGO. Testing has been minimal so far, but I plan on doing much more over the weekend. I like the Torpor Orb idea to shut off all those SFM's and Snappys running around, not to mention V Clique.

I haven't really missed the charm effects, spend early turns disrupting their removal or save counters to protect your dude much like New Horizons did in the past.

Here is my list. (Sorry no card links atm)

Lands (20)
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
4 Swamp
3 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins

Creatures (10)
4 Phyrexian Dreadnough
4 Dark Confidant
2 Hunted Horror

Artifact (4)
4 Torpor Orb

Sorcery (11)
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach

Instants (15)
4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Snare (Maybe this should be Spell Pierce?)

Sideboard (15) - still needs work imo
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Go for the Throat
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Energy Flux
2 Spell Pierce
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

[death]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1262/57549992.png

M1 - played turn 1 Dreadnought.
M2 - same. I have Not of This World for his Ancient Grudge and proceed to cast a second Dreadnought on turn 2.

I have Pithing Needle main now instead of the singleton Torpor Orb. I remember winning a single game with Orb, but I wouldn't have lost more games if it was a needle tbh.

[Vaxe]

All-in Nought will not work - never has and never will.

At least DreadStalker runs another beater. With this list, you are just setting yourself up for a 2-1 - or even a 3-1 with tutors.
Especially with GW Maverick rising in popularity in the US, it's hard to imagine the Nought sticking past 1 turn.

[Piceli89]

1) White is the best colour. It offers the best removal spell (which is still needed- monoblue is not an option) and the best tutor for Dreadnought, with interesting sideboard options.

2) Run other beaters to compensate Dreadnought's weaknesses, so that your threats work in tag-team to cover all the matchups: Dreadnought, Delver, Vendilion Clique.
- Maverick has Qasalis, GSZ, Plowshares to deal with it. Delver can be only dealt with the latters.
- Canadian Threshold stops easily Delver, while it just folds to a resolved Dreadnought.
- Vendilion Clique is the best flashing Duress against Storm Combo and it steals that Swords to Plowshares left in hand that won't go on the 12/12 the turn after.

They all cost less than 3, so that Daze isn't that much of a drawback; they're all in color, they race significantly, and they sinergize with the cheap, ultra-cantripping nature of the deck.

3) Be balanced on each of those components, avoiding redundant/narrow pieces, at least maindeck (like Flusterstorm or Vision Charm) and hideous ones (Lotus Petal).

4) Mix and get a good list.

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought *
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Vendilion Clique
-----------------------10
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
-----------------------7
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind*
4 Swords to Plowshares
----------------------9
4 Force of Will
3-4 Daze
3 Gitaxian Probe
3-4 Spell Snare
----------------------14
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Torpor Orb
----------------------2
4 Flooded Strand
4 Blue-based Fetchlands
3 Tundra
3 Island
4 Wasteland
---------------------18

*Can be trimmed down to accomodate 19th-20th lands, opening the option of post-sb alt-win conditions to be slipped in the Dreadnought spots when Grip is expected. Jace and Elspeth come to mind.

[Sideboard]

3 Counterbalance
1 Ethersworn Canonist
---------------------------
1 Path to Exile
2-3 Flusterstorm/Dispel
---------------------------
2-3 Surgical Extraction
--------------------------
5 to be decided

[GGoober]

@Piceli:

I like the 1 Torpor Orb and the white splash supporting ETutor for a Tutorbox, however I think this undermines the consistency of Delver to a large extent (flipping).

My friend used to be testing UW-nought decks and Mother of Runes is pretty insane. Considering that turn 1 mom not only stalls aggro, it will either bait a removal or protect an incoming Dreadnought. But if Delver-nought is the approach to go, I think the white splash actually creates some consistency issues with the Delver plan (not to mention StP slows the clock of Delver beats giving opponents +1 to +2 turns to find answers.

I'm personally more in favor of a black splash, but that's because I'm much more comfortable piloting Dreadstalker. Black offers Thoughtseize, acting as both 'creature-discard' and 'removal-discard', and Snuff Out which is entirely free and a heavily underrated card with all these KotR running around (Dismember ain't doing nothin' against a mid-game knight).

If you're going UB, the deck naturally would play as Dreadstalker, since packing Vision Charms in the UB shell with Tombstalker as back-up beater is overall synergistic in nature. But I think the UW approach you posted is pretty neat, I just find the 3 Tops a little puzzling if you're going all-in-nought for a fast kill. Seems that the approach is aggressive but playing at the speed of Dreadstill.

[death]

I needed to clear this one out because of the confusion that exists between the interaction of Phyrexian Dreadnought and Vision Charm. When Vision Charm makes Phyrexian Dreadnought phase out, the 'comes into play' ability triggers but does nothing (to Dreadnought), Phyrexian Dreadnought cannot be sacrificed because it is treated like it doesn't exist.

Rule 702.23 - Phasing (http://crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/summaries/indexes/rule-general-702.php#702.23)

702.23b - If a permanent phases out, its status changes to "phased out." Except for rules and
effects that specifically mention phased-out permanents, a phased-out permanent is treated as
though it does not exist. It can't affect or be affected by anything else in the game.
[CompRules 2009/07/08]

Ask the Judge, 4/22/2008 (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/15759_Ask_the_Judge_4222008.html)

Q: If I play Phyrexian Dreadnought and then, while the triggered ability is on the stack, play
Vision Charm, making Phyrexian Dreadnought phase out, what would happen with the triggered ability?

A: It will still resolve, and you will have to sacrifice creatures with a combined power of 12 or
greater if you have them, or at least sacrifice as much as possible. The fact that the Dreadnought
is not in play does not matter, other than the fact that you will not, and cannot, sacrifice the
Dreadnought, even if you cannot sacrifice enough creatures.

Again, once the Dreadnought phases in, it will not be sacrificed because 'comes into play' abilities don't trigger in a permanent phasing in.

Crystal Keep Rulings Summaries (http://crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=Phyrexian%20Dreadnought)

Phyrexian Dreadnought

When it phases in, it is not "coming into play" due to the phasing rules. So you don't have to
sacrifice again when it phases in. [D'Angelo 1999/07/29]

Rule 702.23 - Phasing (http://crystalkeep.com/magic/rules/summaries/indexes/rule-general-702.php#702.23)

702.23d - The phasing event doesn't actually cause a permanent to change zones or control, even
though it's treated as though it's not on the battlefield and not under its controller's control
while it's phased out. Zone-change triggers don't trigger when a permanent phases in or out. Counters
remain on a permanent while it's phased out. Effects that check a phased-in permanent's history
won't treat the phasing event as having caused the permanent to leave or enter the battlefield.
[CompRules 2009/07/08]

[blaat]

I Love this deck, especially the UW build (e.tutor and silver bullets).
I don't play Torpor Orb yet, but it seems it has a lot of potential lately.
It auto-stifles a lot of decks currently.
Spellstutter Sprite
Stoneforge Mystic
Vendilion Clique
Snapcaster Mage

seen sometimes:
Angel of Despair
Sower of Temptation
Trinket Mage
approx 1/3 of Goblins

So it is disruption and helps your game plan at the same time.
It disables snapcaster into removal, usually killing dreadnought before it can connect.
A scenario that often happens after a counter-war (which is why snappie is that good)

I was afraid about the issue of removal on the orb, but with a good pack of 4stifle/4charm/1-2trickbind on backup this actually never occured.

I'm still looking for the best win package though.
For now, I use 4x Delver of secrets, 4x Phyrexian Dreadnought and 1x Eater of Days

[death]

Soo Wizards decided to drop us a late Christmas present,
in the form of http://mythicspoiler.com/frf/cards/cloudform.jpg and Jeskai Infiltrator even. Though I admit I haven't began testing the Monk yet and still can't find room for him, his ability is kinda tempting not to try him out at least.

UW Cloudnought 1-9-15
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Flusterstorm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Vision Charm
1 Trickbind
4 Stifle
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Cloudform

4 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Lotus Petal
3 Tundra
2 Island

Yup the mana base may need a revamp since 1WUU is needed to make Cloudnought work. But we can delve into that later.

[Cire]

The other proposed list with cloud form was

4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Force of Will
4 Sensei's divining top
4 Counter balance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Cloudform
4 Delve through Time
4 STP

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

16 Land

[Madmankevinx]

i want me some lotus petal to speed this up!