[Dark ascension]Faithless Looting

[DrJones]

The preview card from Dark Ascension included with the new Mtg comic about the adventures of Planeswalker Dack Fayden:

Faithless Looting :r:
Sorcery
Draw two cards, then discard two cards
Flashback :2::r:

During the Great Designer Search 2, Mark Rosewater talked about giving these kind of effects to red, and the idea had a lot of supporters, so it was just a matter of time something like that would get printed. I wasn't expecting a card this good, though. Comments?

[mojoiskewl]

Will push Burning Vengeance as a real deck in standard.

Will see modern play, in a U/R storm variant and/or Twin of course.

Not sure about legacy. the only two decks that use careful study are dredge and reanimator. You would still prefer a blue card in those decks though because of the mana base. Probably replacing tireless tribe in non manaless, non led dredge. Will also probably spawn some sort of Past in Flames storm combo deck, but then again almost all those types of decks uses blue and has access to study anyways, and nobody is using study in any sort of storm combo.

I can see dumping your yard using:
Careful Study
Faithless Looting
Ideas Unbound

Combo on turn three with Past in Flames, not that exciting; but hey, people will try to do it because of novelty.

[Solar Ice]

Yeah, a solid upgrade to Careful Study that isn't really splashable in Reanimator and probably inferior to CS in Dredge. I hope that Red gets more of these type of effects. That's exactly the type of cards that the colour needs to see being printed.

[jamis]

I could definitely see Reanimator going 3 colored. The decks been wanting a second careful study ever since Mystical got banned. I mean, testing will tell, but I think this could really make the deck stronger

[Amon Amarth]

With Flashback, this card could form the engine of a R/G Madness deck, for example. It's nice to see looter effects in Red. I wonder if they are exclusively Red now or shared with Blue.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Yeah, a solid upgrade to Careful Study that isn't really splashable in Reanimator and probably inferior to CS in Dredge. I hope that Red gets more of these type of effects. That's exactly the type of cards that the colour needs to see being printed.

Why would it be inferior in Dredge?

[Koby]

Why would it be inferior in Dredge?

I think it fits right into Dredge's plan and can easily replace Careful Study. The only land that it doesn't fit well into with is Cephalid Coliseum for color reasons - but as I understand it, it's usually wrong to lead with Coliseum first anyway.

[4eak]

Cephalid Coliseum only taps for blue. CC probably shouldn't be removed from the deck. You really want your draw spells to be blue if at all possible (Winds of Change doesn't see play, in large part, because it isn't blue). If you aren't playing LED Dredge, it doesn't look like Faithless Looting is worth using in Dredge. I'm going to try to remove CC and go for a heavier red splash and see what happens anyways.


peace,
4eak

[majikal]

Might enable some kind of Bloodghast Dredge that plays more mana.

Also a red-based Reanimator deck with Burning Wish might want this, but that may not be the right direction for that deck.

[Malchar]

Why would it be inferior in Dredge?

I see it as a straight upgrade in dredge as well. Perhaps if you played a strictly blue/black version, it might be worse, but most decks already use a majority of multicolored land. If not, the fact that you can flash it back definitely makes it worth splashing for. It is perhaps twice as good as careful study due to the flashback.

This kind of card is very tempting for my monored imperial painter deck. It really hurts for card selection. I currently use sensei's divining top, but this could make a nice addition in small numbers. Welder also allows some tricks with the discarded cards, and it has the prophetic stompy mana cost of :2::r:

Also, I've been tooling around with a fun monored storm deck in legacy with burning inquiry and moon effects. It might just get there some day.

[Amon Amarth]

Might enable some kind of Bloodghast Dredge that plays more mana.

Also a red-based Reanimator deck with Burning Wish might want this, but that may not be the right direction for that deck.

That sounds kind of cool. Like a Reanimator and Teen Titans mashup. R/B would give you a solid mana base and Burning Wish sounds good.

[Scordata]

Have you guys played with this card yet?

It's bonkers - it actually CHANGES the rules of tempo.

This was clearly a mistake. They ought to think about banning it.

[bruizar]

Have you guys played with this card yet?

It's bonkers - it actually CHANGES the rules of tempo.

This was clearly a mistake. They ought to think about banning it.

Can you post more content? This almost sounds like you're trolling.

[DrJones]

Hey! I don't need someone to tell me this card is super good to know it even before playing it. There are cards that have hidden potential, but this card is pretty blunt about it. If you aren't going to pick a playset, you're doing it wrong, and that is all I've got to say about this card.

[Gheizen64]

Can you post more content? This almost sounds like you're trolling.

Yeah i've tested it in some lists and it's hardly a gamechanger...

[bruizar]

Yeah i've tested it in some lists and it's hardly a gamechanger...

THe question is, which lists? Without the 75 you guys are basing your opinions on, your opinions don't add much to the discussion. I'm not saying this card sucks. I'm saying that forum posts should have substance and simply saying "omg this card rox" isn't good enough.

[Grollub]

Have you guys played with this card yet?

It's bonkers - it actually CHANGES the rules of tempo.

This was clearly a mistake. They ought to think about banning it.

Indeed, we'll see an emergency banning shortly after Dark Ascension's release if they don't do a last minute fix.

[Dzra]

Could it be used in a Zoo or Aggro Loam type deck? Draw two cards, pitch two lands? It doesn't seem bad with KotR, Terravore, and Countryside Crusher. Granted, it's still no Sylvan Library.

Seems pretty strong in some sort of Past in Flames deck also.

[Gheizen64]

THe question is, which lists? Without the 75 you guys are basing your opinions on, your opinions don't add much to the discussion. I'm not saying this card sucks. I'm saying that forum posts should have substance and simply saying "omg this card rox" isn't good enough.

I've tried it in loam lists and tried it with some MUD style decks with welder. But i'm guessing the others are just trollin' because it's what the cool kids on the block do.

[Gui]

It's inferior to CS in LEDless dredge, and better than CS in LED dredge. That said, smart players will play all 8 copies, imho. The consistancy of the swiss army knife is too good to pass.

[Cire]

How bout running it alongside punishing fire and chandra's Phoenix?

[TsumiBand]

LOL, a draw spell for Burn. "Fuck you land draw, now you're six damage."

Srsly though, it's super-good to see draw spells of this caliber outside of Blue. We already know what Careful Study does guys; now we can do it in the mid-game if need be, and we can do it in Red? The little kid in me wants to play RG Madness just to be an asshat, but I'm thinking it'll show up in lists like Burning Vengeance.

edit - o yeah and maybe Dredge, since it's kind of fucking perfect

[UnderwaterGuy]

I see it as a straight upgrade in dredge as well. Perhaps if you played a strictly blue/black version, it might be worse, but most decks already use a majority of multicolored land. If not, the fact that you can flash it back definitely makes it worth splashing for. It is perhaps twice as good as careful study due to the flashback.


It is significantly harder to play so it is worse. Dredge is already a land-light deck and you want to be able to play your cards with the lands in your starting hand. Careful Study can be cast by any land in the deck while this new card will be cast by 4 less lands.

it has a flashback but that matters more in LED Dredge, which doesn't seem to be played much at all. It is much more likely to replace/compliment Deep Analysis in Dredge because it is an improvement on that card. Comparing it to Careful Study (in LED-less Dredge) though, it has a very slight advantage because you might sometimes flash it back but it has the drawback of being harder to cast.

In normal decks it is card disadvantage and so unless you're looking for a way to discard cards I doubt you want this. Just look at how many non-graveyard decks run Careful Study.

[Rizso]

It might give Madness a comeback. Able to play 8 Careful studies.

[SpikeyMikey]

I'm just ecstatic that it's not random discard.

[UnderwaterGuy]

I'm just ecstatic that it's not random discard.

Yeah that would have totally ruined it. It's a very good sign to see red get this effect.

[rufus]

Combo on turn three with Past in Flames, not that exciting; but hey, people will try to do it because of novelty.

Every time they print a card like that, it's going to cut the fundamental turn for Past in Flames by a bit. I don't think it would take that many to bring Past in Flames to turn 2.

It does seem like can interact quite positively with Pyromancer Ascension or Life From the Loam (perhaps in Aggro-Loam) as well.

[Mr. Safety]

This card puts Pyromancer's Swath combo in modern into the top combo deck, easy. Just plain nuts as far as power-level in modern goes. Sleight of Hand will go back to it's dusty corner again.

For legacy...hmmm, I agree on the Past in Flames deck. Brain-Flames seems like a really cool deck, and at least gives storm a little variety (even if it doesn't replace ANT or TES.)

[Infinitium]

Did I miss a memo or something? No one plays card selection for 3 mana, no one plays Careful Study and no mono-red deck (and certainly not anyone splashing much of anything) wants this.

[Malchar]

In normal decks it is card disadvantage and so unless you're looking for a way to discard cards I doubt you want this. Just look at how many non-graveyard decks run Careful Study.

Nonblue decks don't have much card selection besides sensei's divining top, which is also card disadvantage. In fact, so is mystical tutor. Also, last time I checked, plenty of decks have ways to abuse the graveyard, so discarding cards isn't all bad.

The reason that no one uses careful study (outside graveyard combo) is because if you're in blue, then you also have access to much better blue draw/selection spells. I'd love a red brainstorm, but I'll take what I can get.

[Solar Ice]

Why would it be inferior in Dredge?

Others have answered this already so I don't really want to repeat but yeah, Dredge (Led-less, that is. LED is another story and it's probably a strict upgrade to CS) is mana light in many games and Coliseum is another reason why I'd run CS over FF, purely to avoid consistency issues. Of course, I could be totally wrong and this card is better. It does need testing for sure.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

So cut Cephalid Coliseum.

I mean this is pretty easy, the card that enables the turn 1 win is obviously going to be more powerful.

[Gui]

So cut Cephalid Coliseum.

I mean this is pretty easy, the card that enables the turn 1 win is obviously going to be more powerful.

I believe this would make the deck even more succeptible to CounterspellsWithAClock.dec than this version already is.

[UnderwaterGuy]

So cut Cephalid Coliseum.

I mean this is pretty easy, the card that enables the turn 1 win is obviously going to be more powerful.

lmao :laugh:

[SpikeyMikey]

So cut Cephalid Coliseum.

I mean this is pretty easy, the card that enables the turn 1 win is obviously going to be more powerful.

Kind of like how Culling the Weak is such a powerful storm card, since a deck built around it can go off turn 1 more frequently than one built around Ad Nauseam?

[Octopusman]

I believe this would make the deck even more succeptible to CounterspellsWithAClock.dec than this version already is.

But you aren't casting this unless you have a dredger in the yard already which means that it just slows you down. Who cares if they counter it? I'd rather they counter my gas than my dread return.

[Lemnear]

RG Madness anyone?

Fiery Temper
Arrogant Wurm
"Red arrogant Wurm"
Anger
.
.
.

[AngryTroll]

RG Madness anyone?

Fiery Temper
Arrogant Wurm
"Red arrogant Wurm"
Anger
.
.
.

You absolutely cannot not run Wonder, which means at least a handful of blue duals. If you run fetchlands and blue duals, you should be running Brainstorm, and in Madness, you probably want Careful Study as well. At that point, Daze looks attractive, and suddenly you have enough blue cards to support Force of Will. Now you end up running UGr Madness instead of GR Madness.

[Lemnear]

You absolutely cannot not run Wonder, which means at least a handful of blue duals. If you run fetchlands and blue duals, you should be running Brainstorm, and in Madness, you probably want Careful Study as well. At that point, Daze looks attractive, and suddenly you have enough blue cards to support Force of Will. Now you end up running UGr Madness instead of GR Madness.

Every effect comes with a price. You can argue that drawing Lands in burn is undesireable and come to conclusions like:

A) want Library manipulation like brainstorm and follow your example Till there's Not enough space for burn

B) want em to do damage and Run seismic assault and then add green for Life from the loam

C) whatever else


The only relevant question is: do you NEED wonder IF you already run burn and 4/4 tramplers with haste?

[Final Fortune]

Kind of like how Culling the Weak is such a powerful storm card, since a deck built around it can go off turn 1 more frequently than one built around Ad Nauseam?

Big difference between comparing a card that requires 8 Kobolds and a card that requires red mana, if you play Dredge, let alone play Dredge well, Cephalid Coliseum is a turn 3 play in a deck that really just wants another turn 2 draw spell and Cephalid Coliseum is no more impervious to counters than Faithless Looting when you consider the number of Wastelands and Stifles in the format.

It also lets Dredge cut the Lightning Bolt to your face land in favor of Undiscovered Paradise.

[rufus]

I'm not sure if it can displace a business spell, but on the face of it, this seems like a pretty good fit for aggro-loam since that deck is half cards that you don't mind seeing thrown in the graveyard in the form of lands and lftl. Later in the game, the draw effect and flashback ability should be good with dredging, or cycling out lands, and, since that deck is unlikely to miss land drops, the flashback cost isn't particularly onerous.

[Sims]

I know it's already been said, but this spell makes me kinda sad I sold most of my steam vents and cascade bluffs. I'd really probably enjoy playing Past In Flames and/or Pyromancer Acension in Modern with this card.

[Mr. Safety]

I know it's already been said, but this spell makes me kinda sad I sold most of my steam vents and cascade bluffs. I'd really probably enjoy playing Past In Flames and/or Pyromancer Acension in Modern with this card.

Bingo, Past in Flames storm will be top-dog in modern as soon as this card is printed/released. Oh no! What will zoo do? :eek: It will have a faster goldfish than Splinter Twin and anything non-combo will be easy prey. Wizards must do something about the lack of good control in modern or they will be perpetually banning combo decks.

Of course I'm assuming they won't auto-ban Faithless Looting right out of the gate...which is less likely now that Asshat Lapille is gone, but not impossible.

[Sims]

Bingo, Past in Flames storm will be top-dog in modern as soon as this card is printed/released. Oh no! What will zoo do? :eek: It will have a faster goldfish than Splinter Twin and anything non-combo will be easy prey. Wizards must do something about the lack of good control in modern or they will be perpetually banning combo decks.

Of course I'm assuming they won't auto-ban Faithless Looting right out of the gate...which is less likely now that Asshat Lapille is gone, but not impossible.

I dunno if they would remove the freshly printed card or go after the Acension/Past themselves.

or Grapeshot (lulz)

[Mr. Safety]

Well, if they simply ban Past in Flames then Pyromancer's Swath comes in to do the deed. I've been using Swath for a while, and it does the same thing (essentially) by making Grapeshot into an Incinerate w/storm.

[AngryTroll]

Every effect comes with a price. You can argue that drawing Lands in burn is undesireable and come to conclusions like:

A) want Library manipulation like brainstorm and follow your example Till there's Not enough space for burn

B) want em to do damage and Run seismic assault and then add green for Life from the loam

C) whatever else


The only relevant question is: do you NEED wonder IF you already run burn and 4/4 tramplers with haste?

(Based on UG Madness in standard, 1.5, and Legacy, Survival Madness and FEB in Legacy, but admittedly not GR or GB Madness), Wonder is one of the best cards in the deck. It lets your 4/4 tramplers (with haste, even) fly over Tarmogoyfs. Actually, Goyf is what killed Madness in the first place. A 4/5 without Trample is more impressive than a 4/4 with Trample.

Your two drops are competing with Tarmogoyf, and while Wild Mongrel is playable, the rest of the options are decidedly worse than Goyf. Your situational three drops are competing with Terravore, Knight of the Reliquary, and Countryside Crusher. On the other hand, Wild Mongrel and Basking Rootwalla are really good at setting up Vengevine, so that direction is certainly interesting.

[HokusSchmokus]

Say for Wizards making LED Dredge a DTB again!