Poorly run stores make me sad

[jrw1985]

I played in a 24 man tourney yesterday at an Awesome store in Minneapolis, The Monster's Den. I had a really disappointing performance so I decided to play in another tourney I had heard about today at a different store in town, Store X. I had gone to Store X once before for a Saturday tournament like a year and a half ago when I saw a Legacy Tournament planned on their store website. When I showed up that faithful saturday they informed me and that they didn't have Legacy tournaments and that their website was out of date. So, a year and a half later, when I saw that they were under new management and their website was now updated i thought I'd give them another shot. They listed a big 1.5 tourney with a 15$ buy in starting at noon today. I headed over, ready to redeem my losses from yesterday.

When I got there Store X was empty except for the guy behind the counter and 3 dudes sitting in silence at various tables. I went up and asked the guy behind the counter if they were having a Legacy tournament today. He said they were, but he was working on printing up a sign-up list so he couldn't sign me up yet or sell me the soda I had taken out of the fridge... OK. I asked him how many people usually showed up for their tournaments. He said 4 or 5, but sometimes as many as 8. Not what I was hoping to hear. It was about 11:50 and the tourney was supposed to start at noon, so I decided to hang around and see what would happen.

I looked around the store for a while (after putting my soda back in the fridge since the guy behind the counter didn't seem at all interested in ringing me up) and by 12:08 no one else had come into the store. I went back to the guy behind the counter and asked him if the tourney was gonna happen and he said essentially 'No, not enough people, sorry."

I'm not ragging on them for having a poor turnout, but what's the deal with giving the cold shoulder to someone that wants to play in a tournament at your store? And why didn't he just announce that the tournament wasn't going to happen when I came in? He knew that's what I was there for. It just really bothered me that he was gonna let me wait in the store all day without a tourney starting.

I don't know if this is common for smaller shops, but scheduling events that you know you don't have the player base to fill just seems like bad business. It's bad customer service at the very least to schedule tournaments that are essentially just a waste of time for the 3 players that actually show up. On top of all that, if you're just going to ignore the players that committed and showed up and wanted to give you money, well, you're just doing a really shitty job of running your shop, and you'll drive away potential customers like myself.

So cut that shit out, store operators. A gaming shop isn't just a retailer. It also needs to provide a level of customer service that lives up the expectations of the customers (aka Gamers). Calender events actually need to happen. If, for whatever reason, a scheduled event is canceled, you need to clearly communicate that to the players that showed up. And for the love of God, don't ignore your customers.

Anywho, if you're looking for a great store to play Legacy at in the Twin Cities, I highly recommend The Monster's Den (they have a sister-store called Dreamers that also has Legacy events, but I've never played there). The Den has Legacy events every Thursday night and a Big 1.5 once a month on a Saturday. Didn't mean to make this into a commercial for them, just wanted to point out that there are places that do a good job out there.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

*cough* And if you're ever in Omaha, Nebraska, Dragon's Lair Comics has Legacy on Monday nights. *cough*

[KevinTrudeau]

I'm pretty confident I know of the store you're referring to. The exact same situation occurred when I last went; only five showed up for the scheduled Legacy tourney, and it ended up getting canceled. Luckily enough for me, everyone else who showed up had an EDH deck, so we ended up playing an awesome two hour game of that instead, but I totally understand your frustration. I'll try to head out to the next scheduled Sunday one for sure to help it fire.

Yes, Monster Den is a great store, and is easily the greatest storage garage I've ever known. I am thankful enough to live within walking distance. Jason, the owner of Dreamers who bought MD back in 2005/6ish, has done a tremendous job managing it.

[Kich867]

Poorly run shops are, imo, one the leading factors to comic / card shops dying out. They're neckbearded basement nerds who thought it'd be cool to run a store in line with their hobby but have little to no sense of business.

A few examples from the local card/comic shop in town:

A new set came out, I think it was new phyrexia, my roommate went there and bought the last 9 packs they had of it. The owner asked him, "Are you sure? If we sell you these we won't have anymore packs for like 2 weeks..." and legitimately tried to prevent a customer from buying them out of a given stock. Oh man, how terrible it must be to have someone buy all your shit.

We mostly stop going there because we don't buy packs anyways anymore, but a friend stopped by to see if they had the new magic comic book coming out, he wasn't totally sure when it was coming out he just knew that was soon. So he went in, asked the guy, the guy gives him the cold shoulder and handles the whole thing like an ass etc.

These people need to be like librarians--if you ask for something they don't have, be nice, recommend other things they might like based on that, try and help them out, try and introduce them to things.

I don't get the mentality of treating your customers like shit, the goal is to get people interested and comfortable with it. Magic/Comic books are already a touchy thing to like on a social level anyways, I know a lot of people who don't tell anyone they play / read them. There's no need to make getting into a fun hobby so much worse by making them feel like you don't want them there.

[Dark Ritual]

I'm guessing you're talking about universe games. That or maybe a Games by James. Games by james is absolutely awful, and good lord is the owner a gigantic asshole on more than one level (he is actually the fattest person I've ever seen). And for universe games, they keep trying to do this big legacy tourney on sunday every month but they always fail to fire off from what I heard from other people who went there and said "Oh look, there are 3 people here for the tournament. Sadface." I've never personally been to universe but I put my faith in Jason at Dreamers and the Monster Den because he is a friend of mine and I regular Dreamers because Monster Den is so far away and Dreamers is about 5 minutes away for me to drive there. I do go to the big 1.5's at the den though, I was there yesterday for it. Also started 2-0 but ended up going 2-2 drop losing to my decks worst MU without a doubt (counterbalance thopters + vindicate and enlightened tutor with me on the doomsday tendrils plan) then losing to MUD torpor orb featuring tangle wire (oh god tangle wire I hate you.)

But I agree, if you operate or own a store you should manage it well. I hate poorly organized stores that are just bad.

But wow, a store owner trying to not sell the last 9 packs of new phyrexia? Are you joking store owner? If you don't sell them now you'll probably sell them to someone else in under a week and still have the same situation. Just accept it and move on. Must be a major blowout for you to sell every last pack you ordered, oh darn.

[maurobad2k4]

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. We got even worse stores than these here in Brazil. It's pretty sad..

[jrw1985]

It's not like gamers are a particularly high-maintenance group either. Just run the events you schedule. We put up with the generally run-down facilities, dirty bathrooms, and unfriendly/unhelpful staff only because we want to play the games you scheduled! If, heaven forbid, attendance is just too low to run an event, make a point of being apologetic. Offer the people who did show up a discount on the next event, give them some incentive to help make YOUR store a success. I understand that gamers in general don't have the best reputation for being hospitable, social, or outgoing, but I am, damnit, and I'd rather not be ignored like some asshole when I show up to spend time and money at your establishment.

[Slag]

I think you all need to make a clear distinction between a bad store and a bad legacy environment. Bad stores are easy to deal with. Don't spend your money there. They can hardly be surprised if they don't have repeat business when they are rude to the customers. A bad legacy environment, however, is hardly the fault of the store. A number of factors (including price of the format, geographic location, and what players deem an appropriate prize payout) make regular legacy tournaments are surprisingly hard to maintain. A good environment revolves around a group of people who enjoy playing legacy, and if that group is smaller than 4 people, it's not likely to fire a tournament every week. Having played legacy since it's early days, I am never surprised when a tournament isn't able to run because of a lack of attendance, although I suppose it's a good sign that you all can afford to be.

[Malchar]

So universe games was the place you were talking about? I thought you might be talking about unicorn games. Following their website schedule, I went to their weekly tournament only to find out that the store was boarded up about out of business.

[Aggro_zombies]

Man, at least you guys have Legacy tournaments in theory. Around here, we don't even have them in practice.

There used to a Legacy tournament series run at the store I frequent (Magic Tower). It's rather out of the way (north of the city by a bit), but the people who play there are pretty loyal and good prize support was expected to draw people from the main parts of the city. And it worked, at first. However, there's another store owner located more centrally who hates the store owner of Magic Tower with a passion. Magic Tower's tournament series was planned months in advance. The other store owner decided to schedule his own Legacy series and announced the events a week before they happened, always on the same day and within an hour of Magic Tower's events starting.

The Legacy in Tucson died shortly thereafter. Magic Tower's tournament dwindled to a couple of people and were cancelled, and then the other store cancelled theirs. They might still have one every couple of months, but last I heard the turnout wasn't great there, either.

[majikal]

The worst store I've been to, by far, is Get Some Games in Charlotte, NC. My travel mates and I went to draft this Friday and had the worst experience imaginable.

First off, when we signed up, the fat fucker behind the counter couldn't be bothered to peel his oversized ass off of his computer chair long enough to charge us for the event. In fact, he didn't even mention the cost all night. In addition, they had some awesome singles in a display case - some duals, some fetches, some foils of great EDH cards, Legacy staples - hundreds of dollars of cards that we expressed interest in buying. The only response we got from this guy was "Oh, I'll look the prices up on those later." It never happened.

We played through the entire draft and I finished well enough to get some kind of prize. So we waited around for the guy to pay out. He never did. He also still never said a word about the singles we wanted to buy or paying for the draft. After about half an hour of watching him durdle around on the internet and talk about movies with the people who lived upstairs (yes, you read that right), and with no reason to believe he had any intention of charging us for anything, we left.

We get back to our hotel room, and about twenty minutes later, the phone rings. It's the guy from Get Some Games. He has somehow tracked down where we are staying and has finally decided that he wants his money, and instead of politely asking us to pay him, he accuses us of robbing him and demands that we give out credit card information over the phone or else he will call the head judge at the invitational and have us barred from playing. And then he tells us we owe him $60 for three draft sets. When we ask him what the normal price of a draft is at his store, he dances around the subject and insists that if we won't give him credit card info, we should paypal him $60 immediately or he will call the police. At this point, one of the guys staying in the room with us looks up their website and discovers that drafts only cost $16, so we confront him about it, and he finally gives up after some choice words from another travel mate who was getting sick of his bullshit and agrees on $48. So, in summary, not only did he brush off our custom while we were in the store because he couldn't be bothered to make an effort to run the place, but he spent arguably more effort on tracking us down and threatening us just so he could try to rip us off for a measly $12.

All in all, I would avoid this store at all costs.

[MirrorMask]

Oh well... He would have to PROVE that he sold you some boosters that you didn't pay.
He must have given you your prizes ass well because you could also accuse him for that. He was nothing more than a thief saying big words. I highly doubt we would be able to accuse you of anything.

I also have a story to share. About 4 months ago, in Athens , Greece the local store owner (Games Vault) decided to run a standard tournament (unusual of him-he never runs any events) with an altered full art tezzeret as the prize (about 100$ value at the time). We had about 3-4 weeks for the event and we filled in deck slots with cards missing bought from him. Personally I only play Legacy so I got together a rather cheap deck compared to the Jace MTS decks some other guys had and must have paid him around 30$ for the cards. Three weeks pass and I stop by to ask him when it would take place and he told me that there would be no event because he HAD SOLD THE FUCKING CARD :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: . Instead of just ordering another full art copy to sell to the guy he gave away the tournament prize:mad:!!!!!!!!!
He also had a facebook group which I was added to and when I pm-ed him telling him that scumbags run out of business first he felt insulted and turned some other players against me, making a big mess,accusing me of flaming them on the facebook group "forum" and telling them I called him a scumbag like a 5year old kid that runs to his mother,while the only thing I did was just saying that shop owners in Greece ,in general, overcharge for everything while NOT giving their customers receipts (he also doesn't and it is ILLIGAL) and getting away with it (I was a bit passionate but never insulted anyone- I was maybe a bit snobbish).
Before anyone says that I should have confronted him in person, I was far away at the time because it was exams period for my university. I did showed up at the store eventually just to see his freaking face one last time and for him to remember mine when he runs out of business. Funny story eh?:rolleyes:

P.s : He is also jealous and feels competitive to his customers who happen to have better decks and just make a fool of him because he doesn't know how to play decently. Hell yeah....!

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The worst store I've been to, by far, is Get Some Games in Charlotte, NC. My travel mates and I went to draft this Friday and had the worst experience imaginable.

First off, when we signed up, the fat fucker behind the counter couldn't be bothered to peel his oversized ass off of his computer chair long enough to charge us for the event. In fact, he didn't even mention the cost all night. In addition, they had some awesome singles in a display case - some duals, some fetches, some foils of great EDH cards, Legacy staples - hundreds of dollars of cards that we expressed interest in buying. The only response we got from this guy was "Oh, I'll look the prices up on those later." It never happened.

We played through the entire draft and I finished well enough to get some kind of prize. So we waited around for the guy to pay out. He never did. He also still never said a word about the singles we wanted to buy or paying for the draft. After about half an hour of watching him durdle around on the internet and talk about movies with the people who lived upstairs (yes, you read that right), and with no reason to believe he had any intention of charging us for anything, we left.

We get back to our hotel room, and about twenty minutes later, the phone rings. It's the guy from Get Some Games. He has somehow tracked down where we are staying and has finally decided that he wants his money, and instead of politely asking us to pay him, he accuses us of robbing him and demands that we give out credit card information over the phone or else he will call the head judge at the invitational and have us barred from playing. And then he tells us we owe him $60 for three draft sets. When we ask him what the normal price of a draft is at his store, he dances around the subject and insists that if we won't give him credit card info, we should paypal him $60 immediately or he will call the police. At this point, one of the guys staying in the room with us looks up their website and discovers that drafts only cost $16, so we confront him about it, and he finally gives up after some choice words from another travel mate who was getting sick of his bullshit and agrees on $48. So, in summary, not only did he brush off our custom while we were in the store because he couldn't be bothered to make an effort to run the place, but he spent arguably more effort on tracking us down and threatening us just so he could try to rip us off for a measly $12.

All in all, I would avoid this store at all costs.

This is a weird way to say you walked out without settling your tab and were surprised that the merchant you were stealing from got upset about it.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Poorly run shops are, imo, one the leading factors to comic / card shops dying out. They're neckbearded basement nerds who thought it'd be cool to run a store in line with their hobby but have little to no sense of business.

A few examples from the local card/comic shop in town:

A new set came out, I think it was new phyrexia, my roommate went there and bought the last 9 packs they had of it. The owner asked him, "Are you sure? If we sell you these we won't have anymore packs for like 2 weeks..." and legitimately tried to prevent a customer from buying them out of a given stock. Oh man, how terrible it must be to have someone buy all your shit.

That is pretty terrible actually. Nothing is surer to kill your customer base than not having product in stock when they show up.

Granted he seems not to understand business or he would've jacked up the price on those last packs until people didn't want to buy them out.


I don't get the mentality of treating your customers like shit, the goal is to get people interested and comfortable with it. Magic/Comic books are already a touchy thing to like on a social level anyways, I know a lot of people who don't tell anyone they play / read them. There's no need to make getting into a fun hobby so much worse by making them feel like you don't want them there.

Now this on the other hand is a problem. The problem is that nerds generally are socially incompetent and overly convinced of their own genius. So they can't interact well with others and they're convinced any misunderstandings are others' fault.

[hi-val]

That is pretty terrible actually. Nothing is surer to kill your customer base than not having product in stock when they show up.

Granted he seems not to understand business or he would've jacked up the price on those last packs until people didn't want to buy them out.


When a new set comes out, I think people can understand that a product may be sold out. Beyond jacking up the prices, there are other options, too. When cracking the last box, he can put a sign with it that says "limit 3 per customer - last box for 2 weeks!" He can also take preorders and offer people something like 15% off if they want to sign up to get some packs from the next box. He can also keep some packs off the counter and keep only four or five in the box itself on display.

I agree with the general sentiment that stores are frequently run by either people with no business sense or people with enough business sense but no social sense. Here's an easy test to see if you're social enough to run a game store:

-When you go to Magic events, do people want to talk to you? Are they people you respect?
-Does your humor consist of something other than giving other people crap and making them feel bad?
-When you invite friends over (you do that, right?), are you a good host? Do you make sure the bathroom is clean, that you have refreshments to offer, that the trash is taken out, that you make everyone feel welcome and that you quickly attend to everyone's needs?
-If someone makes a tasteless, tacky, offensive or inappropriate joke or comment, are you willing to tell them to clean up their act or leave?

Too often, I meet people in stores who never leave their store and think that when I ask "Could I get this pack of sleeves?" I get a response of "sure, you could have it" in a singsong, sarcastic tone. Which makes me not buy the sleeves and reward a smug person with a lost sale.

[majikal]

This is a weird way to say you walked out without settling your tab and were surprised that the merchant you were stealing from got upset about it.
There was no tab. We tried to buy hundreds -if not thousands- of dollars worth of singles, and he wouldn't get off his ass. And we waited around for nearly an hour after the event was over and the guy wouldn't give us the time of day. What makes you think the guy had any intention of charging us for anything? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but standard procedure is to charge at the beginning of an event, not sit at your computer and play games all night while ignoring your customers.

[MirrorMask]

So did you actually paid him in the end or you just ignored him?

[majikal]

So did you actually paid him in the end or you just ignored him?

We sent him $48 via Paypal, which was the actual cost of the draft (for three people) according to the store's website, instead of the ridiculous $60 he tried to extort out of us, and we still never got our prize packs.

[n00bas4urus_r3x]

This thread is sad, makes me think of the Shinder's chain that used to operate in the twin cities. They were great little shops, had a lot of magazines, comics, sports stuff, porn and TCG's. My friends and I started going to their weekly Legacy events in late 2004, and would get over 20 players a week which was crazy then.

In 2007 the heir of the company, Robert Weisberg, got caught with meth, ecstasy, needles and a rifle in his vehicle. He skipped his court dates and switched the company bank accounts over to his name only so no one else could access the money. Someone mysteriously broke into the company warehouse before it was going to be seized by the courts and jacked all the high end merch. It was heartbreaking to watch the store's inventory drop over the months and talk to the workers and realize they hadn't been paid for weeks. When they closed up I think the employees had free pick over what was left to get some compensation.

Monster Den and Dreamer's are both great stores, and Jason is one of the nicest owners I've ever experienced. He goes out of his way to talk to the patrons and is friendly and out going towards everyone. LGS owner gold.

[puppektion]

In 2007 the heir of the company, Robert Weisberg, got caught with meth, ecstasy, needles and a rifle in his vehicle. He skipped his court dates and switched the company bank accounts over to his name only so no one else could access the money. Someone mysteriously broke into the company warehouse before it was going to be seized by the courts and jacked all the high end merch. It was heartbreaking to watch the store's inventory drop over the months and talk to the workers and realize they hadn't been paid for weeks. When they closed up I think the employees had free pick over what was left to get some compensation.

IIRC, Shinders employees weren't paid for the last day they were "open". Basically, they were told they could take whatever stock they had in the stores as compensation for that last day. However, what I remember happening is rather than just taking the stock, they opened that day, sold what they could majorly on sale (as much as 50% off), and when they closed for the day, took what they could. It was terrible to see that die.

[MirrorMask]

well, I wouldn't pay him unless he gave me my rewards. Could he really prove you didn't pay him or you even participated in the tournament? He may have let you play for free for example.Its up to him. This has happened to a tournament I usually go. The whole event lasts for three months and you gather points based on your placing and the times you play and in the end best dudes get a 1)mox 2) dual 3)something else. Each of the tournaments gives also boosters to the top 4 but if you just want to get a point or something they may let you play for free but without any boosters if you win.