Alex Bertoncini's serial cheating.

[ivanpei]

I'm surprised there isn't a thread on this yet. He's locked up the invitational and is the highest ranked player in the world. All because of:

http://i.imgur.com/WR2C0.jpg

5 cards with brainstorm? Must be nice. Earlier the commentators caught him using brainstorm as an ancestral recall as well.

Also he double explores in this video:
Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd7cd-K8ImQ

There's alot of noise being made on the scg life feed now. Thoughts?

I'm going to refrain from commenting myself, but my frame of mind is: cheats don't belong in any competitive hobby. The only question now is how long should the ban hammer be?

[Tha Gunslinga]

I believe his name is actually Bertoncheaty.

[Esper3k]

Drew Levin's been making a huge stink about him recently. I actually saw a thread started on here with Drew Levin's email to Sheldon M. about it, but it looks like the thread got deleted?

Lots of stories about him drawing extra cards (like opponent Duresses him on T1 and catches him with 8 cards in hand) and preboarding.

I think there's a famous one where he was in a feature match and got someone with a preboarded Sower, then the T16 decklists came out and he had the Sowers in the board?

I also saw another video of him where he had a Kira out, opponent Jace bounces it, then Cursed Scrolls it and Bertoncini returns Kira to his hand.

[say no to scurvy]

There was a thread earlier this week after Drew Levin called him out on twitter or something for his multiple instances where he has been known to cheat

...pre-boarded sower against a reanimator with plat angel
...drawing extra cards
...3/1 mainboard/sideboard timely reinforcements against burn where his list was supposedly 2/2
...submerging forestless opps

The thread was deleted for unknown reasons

[ivanpei]

I can understand deleting a thread when there's slandering without proof. But when videos and screen caps of obvious cheating appears, something definitely has to be done. This evidence seems pretty conclusive IMO.

[death]

Opponent: no he's good
Drew: you sure?

lmao.

[bfeingersh]

http://blip.tv/scglive/scg_sanjose_legacy_round-007-4944362

There's also this. Check out between 35:00-36:00. His opponent has Jace+Cursed Scroll. Alex plays a Kira, opp. bounces and shoots it. Alex stacks up his graveyard and plays a second Kira. This time when it gets bounced+shot, he just picks it up. Nobody notices because there's still a Kira on top of his graveyard.

[conboy31]

There does seem to be an overwhelming amount of evidence being put forth suggesting that he is cheating (intent) vs. playing sloppy and not maintaining gamestates.

[Justin]

The photo of him on StarCity right now is pretty sickening. It seems clear that he is a serial cheater and this is well documented. He should be stripped of all winnings and banned by the DCI.

[conboy31]

The video's of Alex are multitudes worse than anything Saitou ever did.

[sdematt]

That's sad that he needs to cheat to win. Ban his ass.

-Matt

[KevinTrudeau]

Well, he's laughing all the way to the bank, probably listening to his Nickelback CD on the drive over:

http://starcitygames.com/scglive/images/20111211203159000000.jpg

[death]

http://starcitygames.com/scglive/images/20111211203159000000.jpg

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=74306&type=card

I believe his name is actually Bertoncheaty.

[clavio]

It's crazy how he knew everyone was going to be watching him this weekend......and then he still goes for a five card brainstorm on camera.

I don't actually care though.

[chags]

that explore vid is pretty clear cheats...it'll be interesting to see how the DCI handles this, and even more interesting to see how scg handles proof that their star is a cheat.

[Mr.C]

That was absolutely disgusting. I thought he was going to get DQ'ed right there.

[randomly.anonymous]

I think Explore just got an errata.

"You may play an additional land this turn. If your opponent doesn't notice, you may play two additional lands this turn.

Draw a card."

[Mr.C]

I think the real question is, how long will the suspension be. I mean, the guy that peeked at his opponent's draft picks got what, a year? With all these infractions, he probably won't be playing magic for a while.

[Basaka]

that explore vid is pretty clear cheats...it'll be interesting to see how the DCI handles this, and even more interesting to see how scg handles proof that their star is a cheat.

SCG said they're merely a third party, they're leaving everything to the DCI.

[honestabe]

Looks like Nate Pease didn't teach Alex how to draw four off Brainstorm as well as he should have

[Octopusman]

Is there any chance that he is just really stupid?
I know that I have accidentally drawn 2 cards from the top of my library by mistake a bazillion times.

[CorpT]

Is there any chance that he is just really stupid?
I know that I have accidentally drawn 2 cards from the top of my library by mistake a bazillion times.

Drawing extra cards is mistakeable. Pre-sideboarding perfect cards... much less so.

It should be noted that there are some serious axes to grind here. Drew and Alex have a lot of personal history that should not be ignored. Lots. That is pretty ugly.

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

The photo of him on StarCity right now is pretty sickening. It seems clear that he is a serial cheater and this is well documented. He should be stripped of all winnings and banned by the DCI.

[honestabe]

Drawing extra cards is mistakeable. Pre-sideboarding perfect cards... much less so.

It should be noted that there are some serious axes to grind here. Drew and Alex have a lot of personal history that should not be ignored. Lots. That is pretty ugly.

Yeah, I though drew and alex were friends. Anyone know what caused drew to start this riot?

[OurSerratedDust]

Drawing extra cards is mistakeable. Pre-sideboarding perfect cards... much less so.

It should be noted that there are some serious axes to grind here. Drew and Alex have a lot of personal history that should not be ignored. Lots. That is pretty ugly.

I don't know a whole a lot about this. What happened between them?

[psu42]

Maybe Drew is just an honest player and has some class and respect for the game.

[TooCloseToTheSun]

For anyone who wants to read the email from Drew Levin it is here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/14OAR82pE0uhM-HuvV3wO-NhjhdpMmdSrXfw4_I4zPmA/edit).

[ivanpei]

Is there any chance that he is just really stupid?
I know that I have accidentally drawn 2 cards from the top of my library by mistake a bazillion times.

So the player of the year, no 1 in the world in pwp makes the mistake of accidentally drawing extra cards/not returning cards to the top of library by mistake? I think not. If you look at how fast he plays, you can obviously see how people might be confused. I always watch my opponents carefully when they drop lands/draw cards. That's the most common way to cheat especially if they play really fast.

I've seen plenty of people go draw a card before untapping (very fast, like sleigh of hand fast), think for a long time, untapping and then say "upkeep", pausing to check if the opponent catches it. Then he will proceed to draw step and draw again. That is totally not catchable because your opponent acknowledges the upkeep step where as it actually should be the 1st main already. I'm pretty sure Alex is a master of these "sleigh of hands". Not surprising that he's the world no 1.

[c7272]

I'm not 100% sure on this, but in the Explore video it looks like he gets another card off the Preordain.

To me it looks like...
Cast Preordain, put one in hand and one on bottom, drew for the Preordain.

I wish my Preordains and Explores were this good...

[Oiolosse]

In fear (not really) of sounding overly aggressive, if I caught some little shit head cheat like that in a high stakes tournament I would honestly punch him or her square in the kisser. And twice for having an Italian last name. Three times if they were really Italian.

Am I alone on this?

[DoomPenguin]

http://t.qkme.me/35govm.jpg

I have nothing constructive to add

[clavio]

Maybe Drew is just an honest player and has some class and respect for the game.

Not quite.

[rocketrae21]

http://t.qkme.me/35govm.jpg

I have nothing constructive to add

You clearly don't because that's not Alex

[psu42]

Not quite.

Maybe more so than Bertoncini.

[chags]

http://t.qkme.me/35govm.jpg

I have nothing constructive to add

fail.

[DoomPenguin]

In my defense I did not create that, it merely appeared when I googled his name out of curiosity and I have no idea what he looks like.

This of course further shows my ignorance and why I should not involve myself.

Good day

[rocketrae21]

In my defense I did not create that, it merely appeared when I googled his name out of curiosity and I have no idea what he looks like.

This of course further shows my ignorance and why I should not involve myself.

Good day

There is a pic of him earlier in the thread and on SCG's main page.

But honestly while what he has done is pretty low, I don't honestly care much anymore. There is nothing I can personally do about it, and he hasn't cheated against me.

[bfeingersh]

http://t.qkme.me/35govm.jpg

I have nothing constructive to add
Maybe they labeled the pics wrong in that match writeup, but that's Kurt Spiess, not Alex.

[Lt. Quattro]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but he didn't just slip a land into play on the explore video, at 1:11 he points to his graveyard and claims that he played 2 explores on that turn and that was the justification for the extra land when in reality 1 explore was on turn 2, then the 2nd on turn 3.

[PhanTom_lt]

I saw him essentially coerce an opponent into scooping, when AlexB had a losing board position and started nitpicking on his opponent's foils. What a guy...

[CalebD]

I haven't seen the video, but it has been inspected and the third card is crimped, as it's pressed against the table, making it look like two cards in this snapshot.

Again, I haven't seen the vid myself, but some respectable folks looked it over very closely and reported that Alex is Bstorming appropriately here.

[nyoro]

That's a godly brainstorm under the camera. such a baller.

man i need to start playing explores in my legacy deck. it's so good when you can go 2 explores.

[Amon Amarth]

I believe his name is actually Bertoncheaty.

[Goin Aggro]

Has SCG responded at all to these claims?

[thecrav]

Has SCG responded at all to these claims?

Please see the first page of the thread:


SCG said they're merely a third party, they're leaving everything to the DCI.

As is correct, IMO.

[phonics]

Personally, I think the brainstorm evidence is not conclusive, heres a quick csi:

http://i.imgur.com/6fEP4.jpg

I do see how it could be interpreted to have a card in between RY and YB, but the shadow between the yellow and blue is not present above his pinky finger, suggesting that it is just the sleeve warped, also note the slight deviation in the angle of the shadow as it passes his ring finger.

Not defending him or anything, just saying that grainy stream footage is not really conclusive. That explore video however was definitely not right, was that being secretly taped?

[BlackStarDeceiver]

If you compare like that, check sizes of the Usea and the cards in hand, they appear much wider at least.

Edit: The library looks like it ain't straight, thus wider.

[nyoro]

http://blip.tv/scglive/scgatl-leg-rd-6-alex-bertoncini-vs-alex-smith-5554549

what you call this then huh? you gotta look at the actual video footage.

his brainstorm is so godly it's a recall and then it gains flashback.

[Ben]

SCG said they're merely a third party, they're leaving everything to the DCI.

so SCG as tournament organizer does not care if the player cheat to win the prize? How about the players who actually deserves to get the money and the powers.

This is a very irresponsible act done by SCG. So I suppose SCG is promoting cheating at their Opens I guess.

[Basaka]

so SCG as tournament organizer does not care if the player cheat to win the prize? How about the players who actually deserves to get the money and the powers.

This is a very irresponsible act done by SCG. So I suppose SCG is promoting cheating at their Opens I guess.

That is what they should do - but I think they want a statement from the DCI before doing anything. I mean if Alex gets banned for cheating then SCG can retract the prizes saying "We don't want cheaters" or something.

[Offler]

I just miss some thread where are tips how to found this kind of play. I focused on card tricks for a while, and it had some results against such player here.

However the psychology of the play is more complicated. It seems that most players are too focused on some things. Even in our non-competetive play we stop in game and ask ourselves "did I play a land this turn?", and no one in the game actually knows...

Once it came to competetive play such things also happens, but even judges are not omnipresent... Players used to fact that someone is guiding them in play - many times the oponnent. So the game is not being controlled and checked by two players, but only by one player. Thats such power... And players who dont want to play game, but win know that...

[I am the brainwasher]

I also have to say that this brainstorm could be somewhat misleading.
The reflection of the cards back sometimes create the effect that it looks like more cards were drawn, but really arent. I had this problem as well, as I thought my opponent did that exact same thing in tourney, but he did not.

I am definetly not in the position of defending Bertoncini, but this picture wont proof anything when it comes down to banning him from competitive play.
That video with the Explores ('ssss) was pretty disgustig though, and he really did that one on purpose. He looked very carefully at his lands and piled them directly afterwards. Just obnoxious.
I would be really disappointed, especially keeping in mind the other stories that he is somewhat famous for, if he doesnt have to give back that money and has to give away his title of Poty from SCG, plus, obviously, getting banned from competetive play from the DCI.

This is wrong on so many levels and is simply unaccetable. Cheating should really be the death sentence to a competetive player.



PS:
Catching your opponent cheating, calling the judge and not getting a fair penalty from it is propably one of the most awkward things that could happen to you as a magic-player and I feel truly sorry for those players who faced that, really.
Two of the better stories that happened to me in 2011:
My opponent is playing ANT. While he is in his combo-turn and resolves a hellbent Infernal Tutor.
He is now in the tank to figure out which card he should grab, while a friend of him is standing right behind him (nearly sitting on his lap) and talking about how much mana he has floating and then finally says something like: " Man, whats wrong with you, just grab that other Infernal for Tutor-chain."
I was like rocket-firing my hand to the ceiling, calling a judge.
Judgement: That guy who was standing behind my opponent got a gameloss for his next round. Nothing else.
Just for your info, this was a 90+ player GP Ams-Trial (BUT felt even betterso to place 2nd, this ANT match beeing my only loss at that day).

2nd story: Last round of the tourney (80+ players, relevant price payout in the Top8, 1st place 4 Trops) game 3.
My opponent mulls to 6 and starts to shuffle as I recognize his Delvers of Secrets are visible through his sleeves, calling a judge.
The judge went back and forth, then gave him a warning.
Not only did he had the Delvers prepared all day long (I am truly not interested if that was on purpose or not), but also drew at least 2 in each game.
Result: G3 we went to time and in the 5th extraturn my board consists of Tarmogoyf, active Loam/Punishing Fire and Jace TMS, while my opponent had like 3 cards in hand and 2 lands. Due to the draw I missed Top8.

[Parax]

Personally, I think the brainstorm evidence is not conclusive, heres a quick csi:

http://i.imgur.com/6fEP4.jpg

I do see how it could be interpreted to have a card in between RY and YB, but the shadow between the yellow and blue is not present above his pinky finger, suggesting that it is just the sleeve warped, also note the slight deviation in the angle of the shadow as it passes his ring finger.

Not defending him or anything, just saying that grainy stream footage is not really conclusive. That explore video however was definitely not right, was that being secretly taped?

I think if you check the brainstorm befor that one you can easily count 4 cards.

[I am the brainwasher]

I think what's really suspicious is that he played his 1st Brainstorm uberly safe, drawing each of the 3 cards on their own (even if he didnt put cards back, which is somewhat a whole different story).
He cant be that irritated or distracted while playing against his former petdeck to such an extend that he is "forgetting" the most basic things in the format. Never, ever.

He is really fast with his hands and flicks everything around during the game in general which doesnt create the most honest impression.
I would definetly call a judge to watch the match if my opponent would behave like a nervous thief or drug addict, bouncing around in his seat, moving his hands incredibly fast allover the place.

[Stevethedoer]

http://imageshack.us/f/249/only3cards.jpg/

Crappy link i know... but it still only shows 3 cards.... in the other pictures the sleeves are just wrinkled from him bending them making them look like its 4 cards....

Now im not defending him or anything... I still think he should "incert pissed off comment here." I'd honestly punch him so hard in the face that he would have to use all the money he's cheated to win to fix it, if I ever saw him in person.

[Cthuloo]

In fear (not really) of sounding overly aggressive, if I caught some little shit head cheat like that in a high stakes tournament I would honestly punch him or her square in the kisser. And twice for having an Italian last name. Three times if they were really Italian.

Am I alone on this?

I hope you are. I personally don't feel compelled to auto-punch my face just because I'm Italian. Anyways, I'm reporting to the Godfather, expect a horse's head in your bed anytime soon.

[ivanpei]

Whether its 3/4/5 in that one case is irrelevant. It's just one of many documented cases in which he cheated. Preboard sower, really? Also, the video of double explore. Yeah... he straight up said "I cast 2 explores", it can't be more blatant.

So the question is how long and not if he should be banned. Saito got a really HARSH sentence for something like time stalling/wasting which is pretty subjective, whereas this guy is like blatantly cheating. Saito got freaking 2 years. I think Alex should get 3 if the world is just.

This shit storm is everywhere now. The dci cannot just shut up and ignore it.

[MirrorMask]

That mother fucker is a goddamn cheater and a really bad one! You can easily notice him. That judge must either be paid to not give him a game loss or he is retarded! I mean come on, ancestral recall with flash back???? SHAME ON SCG for not "beating the cheater to death"! Every other guy PAID to participate to a FAIR competition! They HAVE to give their money back plus their expenses to get there otherwise they MUST be sued for promoting cheating and stealing people's money by setting up games! This guy should be banned for a decade. He repeatedly cheats!
That's disgusting! And to think that I wanted to go to their events!

[LOurs]

The real question is : were these plays intentional or not ?
If the answer is yes, it deserves at least a ban. At the very least.
Unintentionnal mistakes happen : pressure, prize, environment … I can understand and admit that. Even if, at a competitive level requiring to be extremely focused on the game, I have trouble to see how that kind of mistakes could happen not once, but several times. And more frequent are these mistakes, more suspicious I become.

I’m far to be a judge and I wasn’t there at these tournaments, so I won’t claim anything as being the truth or not. I’ll wait the decision from people who know. But at this point, if I consider only video as basis, my personnal impression is that videos appear like an evidence of intentional cheat.

[Tha Gunslinga]

From SCG today:


Meanwhile, Alex Bertoncini continued celebrating his Invitational championship and waltzing his oversized check around the hall to endless congratulations.

What a class act.

[Michael Keller]

I can understand deleting a thread when there's slandering without proof. But when videos and screen caps of obvious cheating appears, something definitely has to be done. This evidence seems pretty conclusive IMO.

I'm the one who started the old thread, and I asked Di to delete it because I had spoken directly with Drew who originally wanted me to put it up, but he had second thoughts because he was going to write an article or something to that effect about it.

There are plenty of videos regarding his shady antics, coercive/misleading tactics, and blatant cheating, as I'm right there front-running this absurdity right out the door for the world to see. What an absolute fucking disgrace to the game.

And for the record, that is four cards with that Brainstorm. It's pretty obvious as he was completely taking his opponent's lax attitude towards game-play in account and subliminally acting as if there was no thought behind his cheating, because of how blatantly obvious it is. His opponent is probably not even thinking twice at that moment because in the off-chance he even would think Alex was cheating, he's dismissing it as probably, "Well, who would be that dumb to cheat on a live feed anyway with judges right next to him?" He fanned out those four aces for the world to see and completely eradicated - in my mind - any credibility he has, had, or will have in any event in the future. I have no doubt he is talented, but he ruined a lot of peoples' days and cost a lot of people travel expenses at the urge to win at any cost.

It almost makes me want to vomit looking at that picture of him holding up a set of Power and a check for ten large.

Bertoncini is incredibly persuasive. I have played against him before (in the Top Four of a Jupiter Games event) and the kid is always looking for an edge any way he can get it. Unfortunately for him, it didn't work out so well.

[I am the brainwasher]

I do understand that most players are pissed (including me) but tearing SCG's head off instantly is not the way to go.
I do have a healthy criticism for them though.
There is a major difference between them letting DCI decide which action have to be taken, which is correct in general, or downgrading rules violation because of the star-character that magnetize other players towards their tourneys.
That whole dream of beeing able to make it big in MtG, mostly not in front of a computer, is represented through SCG besides the official GP's/PT's and it would be the most sad thing if they were trying to let famous players get advantages in any form for business purpose.
My hope hasn't fall down yet, but not thinking about that possibility would be pretty naive.


Really looking forward to Bertoncini running away with his gigantic paycheck while Yakety Sax music plays off, followed by a dozen judges.

[SpikeyMikey]

That's sad that he needs to cheat to win. Ban his ass.

-Matt

Everyone knows that's not grounds for banning. You have to threaten a WotC employee to get banned. Cheating and the de facto theft that accompanies it is perfectly legit. Ask Mike Long.

[oRen]

The real question is : were these plays intentional or not ?
You can be pretty sure that every single play was intentional because he is neither stupid nor generally a bad player. I do not care much about him but I got to admit that he got to have some pretty big balls to constantly cheat people on this level of organized tournament play.

[Michael Keller]

You can also all shoot me P.M.'s and I'll hook you up with *some* of his cheats. Drew Levin was kind enough to send me a nice supply of "Bertoncheaty's Greatest Dupes: Volume I." I'll hook you up after work. (Video-wise, there are currently four that I can recall, most of which you have all seen.)

EDIT: There are also a great deal of corroborated stories about judge warnings and game-losses I have, too.

[puppektion]

Drew Levin's article. (http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/) Pretty damning evidence.

[I am the brainwasher]

Thanks, this article is great.
Very embarrassing for SCG on the long road, regardless of the judgement on Bertoncini.

[Michael Keller]

Drew Levin's article. (http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/) Pretty damning evidence.

Easily the best article I have ever read. The issue is beyond Bertoncini at this point; anyone turning a blind-eye to cheaters in this game are the ones who will ultimately be cheated - no matter how 'nice' your opponent may be.

[Sloshthedark]

oh so stupid or so confident to do this on camera...

sidequestion - how is it with audience and judges? - I mean is interference in terms of game rules ok? like two-explores question? can they call judge on you-can you call judge on them (/have to?)?

I've seen things like Phantasmal image with Jitte or less obvious like Intuition with Leyline of Sanctity.. what is "right" to do?

[Jak]

Just by the fact that in the Explore cheat video he put the last/extra land into play tapped proves to me this guy is a cheating piece of shit.

[Michael Keller]

Just by the fact that in the Explore cheat video he put the last/extra land into play tapped proves to me this guy is a cheating piece of shit.

You know what really damns the kid? The coercion.

[gesturing] "...Two Explores."

"...He's good."

Sickening.

[SpikeyMikey]

oh so stupid or so confident to do this on camera...

sidequestion - how is it with audience and judges? - I mean is interference in terms of game rules ok? like two-explores question? can they call judge on you-can you call judge on them (/have to?)?

I've seen things like Phantasmal image with Jitte or less obvious like Intuition with Leyline of Sanctity.. what is "right" to do?

If you witness a mistake/cheating like that, it is your responsibility to report it. That was Wescoe's argument with the whole Drew Levin "bet" thing. It didn't really hold a lot of water there, but as a general rule, if you see something that's wrong, game rules wrong, not, "you made the wrong play" wrong, say something.

[dschalter]

http://imageshack.us/f/249/only3cards.jpg/

Crappy link i know... but it still only shows 3 cards.... in the other pictures the sleeves are just wrinkled from him bending them making them look like its 4 cards....

Now im not defending him or anything... I still think he should "incert pissed off comment here." I'd honestly punch him so hard in the face that he would have to use all the money he's cheated to win to fix it, if I ever saw him in person.

Or that he clumped his top two cards and the second one slid very slightly.

That being said, he was completely dominating that game, so it would take some serious nuttiness to cheat there... unless he was sure that he wouldn't get caught.

[wcm8]

It is somewhat ironic that someone used 'sleights of hand' and other card-based 'magic tricks' to help win tournaments of Magic. A lot of this guy's technique seems to be based around entry-level parlor tricks like using distraction and attention-diversion to gain an unfair advantage.

In the Wild West, having an 'ace up your sleeve' would likely get you shot dead if your cheating was exposed.

Obviously, we aren't so barbaric these days, but for everyone that wants to help maintain the integrity of this game, I think it is important that cheaters are publicly exposed and shamed.

I think there is clear evidence here that it isn't just sloppy play, but actual repeated and blatant cheating.

Even if it *was* just sloppy play, it doesn't mean it should go unpunished. I recall facing an opponent at GP Providence who got a game loss after we got deckchecked and he had forgotten to swap back a few sideboard cards. The cards he SBed would have been completely dead against my deck, and yet he still had to face the consequences -- I felt bad for him because I truly believe it was an honest mistake. In Bertoncini's case, it sounds like he made a habit of pre-emptively sideboarding to gain an advantage (or even pull out wins that would otherwise be impossible). At the very least, this should have been a game loss and a warning, and any further infractions should have been upgraded to harsher judgments.

As it relates to us, I think we need to be vigilant of dubious players. In a format as huge as Legacy, remembering how every card works can be difficult, especially given factors such as old non-oracle wordings, foreign language cards, or general complexity. Cards like Brainstorm and Sylvan Library *do* have a huge potential for cheating, and if there was some reason for their consideration of banning, I think it should be for consideration of tournament disruption/potential for cheating (intentional or otherwise) moreso than tournament dominance/top 8 appearances -- but perhaps that is playing a significant factor?

Not only does Bertoncini's cheating call into question the integrity of the SCG Open Series, but it negatively affects everyone's approach to sanctioned tournaments in general. Rather than sitting down against a new opponent and sharing some pleasantries/introductions and enjoying the game, people may be more paranoid about their opponent's potential cheating and the tournament atmosphere may become more hostile. He has done a huge disservice to Magic.

[Mr. Safety]

I get nervous when I misclick on MWS, let alone doing something serious like not putting 2 back with BStorm or playing an extra land.

When I play sloppy (and it happens, trust me) I don't usually get too worked up. The most prominant mistake I have made is forgetting if I've played a land in a turn. I ask my opponent 'have I played a land yet?' I go with whatever they say. If my opponent doesn't remember, I don't play a land...I'd rather lose to a dumb mistake than win by cheating (intentional or not.)

How rewarding can winning be when you know it was accomplished through cheating?

[Cthuloo]

How rewarding can winning be when you know it was accomplished through cheating?

Well, in this case 10,000$ at least :wink:

[wcm8]

Well, in this case 10,000$ at least :wink:

And a set of Unlimited Power 9

[honestabe]

Look at who he hangs out with.


Oscar Flores has allegedly admitted to cheating off the record, Nate Pease got banned from Vintage (for cheating), and didn't either Max Tietze or Mike Posgay get DQed from Nationals or something?

[ShiftyKapree]

I'm not blaming SCG one bit for Alex Bertoncini's muiltiple evidence of him cheating. They are only tourny organizer's. It sucks he won the inventational and I heard he is thinking about quiting, but he is a stain on the community. I hope DCI looks into it and gives him a lifetime ban, bc there is videofootage of him cheating multiple times, just the way he lays 4 cards down from a brainstorm is a enough for me.

[Esper3k]

Look at who he hangs out with.


Oscar Flores has allegedly admitted to cheating off the record, Nate Pease got banned from Vintage (for cheating), and didn't either Max Tietze or Mike Posgay get DQed from Nationals or something?

Posgay had like a 9 month suspension or so for attempting to bribe an opponent.

[Mr. Safety]

Well, in this case 10,000$ at least :wink:

That's blood money, my friend, lol.

Isn't there a much more profitable way to gain lots of money illegally? I mean come on, cheating at magic? I would think that stealing cars would allow for a lot more free time... (sarcasm)

Anyways, I was thinking satisfaction for doing a good job, internally not externally with cash/fame. I am internally motivated with magic and I have a hard time understanding the idea of external motivation for playing a card game competitively...seems like gravy to me.

[ivanpei]

That's blood money, my friend, lol.

Isn't there a much more profitable way to gain lots of money illegally? I mean come on, cheating at magic? I would think that stealing cars would allow for a lot more free time...

You also get adoration, adulation, respect, fame. Hell I'm from Malaysia and even I know who Alex Bertoncini is. You don't really get that from stealing cars. Also you can't tell friends you "steal cars for a living". On the other hand, if you were a pro Magic/Poker player, that is some major Style points (amongst geeks of course).

I really feel like puking when I see him hold that trophy. I boot up SCG to check some prices, and see his ugly, sly mug holding that fat Cheque and power nine. Disgusting!

[Mr. Safety]

I was attempting to be funny...I am habitually bad at jokes. I shall insert a 'sarcasm' note in my post...

[death]

I haven't seen the video, but it has been inspected and the third card is crimped, as it's pressed against the table, making it look like two cards in this snapshot.

Again, I haven't seen the vid myself, but some respectable folks looked it over very closely and reported that Alex is Bstorming appropriately here.


Personally, I think the brainstorm evidence is not conclusive, heres a quick csi:

http://i.imgur.com/6fEP4.jpg

I do see how it could be interpreted to have a card in between RY and YB, but the shadow between the yellow and blue is not present above his pinky finger, suggesting that it is just the sleeve warped, also note the slight deviation in the angle of the shadow as it passes his ring finger.


http://imageshack.us/f/249/only3cards.jpg/

Crappy link i know... but it still only shows 3 cards.... in the other pictures the sleeves are just wrinkled from him bending them making them look like its 4 cards....

Crappy links are crappy, watch the video: SCGAtl - Leg Rd 6 - Alex Bertoncini vs Alex Smith (http://blip.tv/scglive/scgatl-leg-rd-6-alex-bertoncini-vs-alex-smith-5554549)

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4250/abvasc.jpg
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4500/abvascb.jpg

Clearly in the video you can see him using Bstorm as Ancestral Recall, he then attempted to resolve Jin-Gitaxias trigger to cover his act (not sure if his opponent was paying attention) but the commentators were stupified. After that he Bstormed for 4 cards (at least).

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

http://t.qkme.me/35h48v.jpg

[conboy31]

I have watched the video extensively at regular speed, and in short pausing bursts along with some screen captures. I am confident that he drew 4 off the brainstorm.

[LOurs]

That's blood money, my friend, lol.

Isn't there a much more profitable way to gain lots of money illegally? I mean come on, cheating at magic?

The thing is that to cheat very frequently does mean not only a fact, but a way to think, a way to see the game and to live it. At this point, to cheat is not only for prize or glory, it becomes a kinda “sport into a sport” with its own adrenalin, feeling, glory, rules …
It is a bit like to steal : when someone becomes to steal very frequently, it will becomes extremely difficult for him to stop to steal. Whatever if it is for a leaf of paper, a plastic pen, a golden watch or a TV flat screen. It could even become a psychic disease.
I saw and heard similar reasoning / situation with some players in electronic sport competition. Years ago, there even was an article written by a multiple championship winner, where it clearly admits, although he stopped to play in the competitive world, that he cheated very frequently if not always, and won many prizes this way. He explained very well how he becomes a serial cheater from the first time he did it “just to test” to a the step he couldn’t play without to cheat, even when he will loose for sure. He grabbed a victory in a huge championship he eventually won, with a full relax attitude towards suspicion.
From a lot of people who knew him well irl, this guy was a very cool guy, and probably still is. But strictly regarding competitive rules, he was a f$^*!king cheater, who didn’t deserve any respect (from his own words). The future will tell us if this mtg history will be another brick in a wall of shame or not.

[nedleeds]

Doesn't SCG want a regular group of 'characters' to win these things? Why else would they have given people byes for so long, appearance fees, etc.?

They want a stable of 'Magic Stars' because (and this is pretty sad in the big game of life) because people tend to barn up on these guys, especially the fringe players. It probably drives premium membership, attendance etc.. Maybe this zoloft snorting fool is the 'villian' of their little tour. With all the variance in magic (in both in game draws, your opponents draws, and most importantly your matchups) it's hard to imagine the same person winning multiple 8-12 round tournaments consistently without cheating a little bit.

[Antonius]

Can't believe I smoked this dude out. Can't smoke out villains.

-1 for me.

[tsabo_tavoc]

http://t.qkme.me/35h48v.jpg

:tongue:

Off topic, I kind of like yet another reason to ban Brainstorm. It is easier to catch the Cheatyface on a resolved Ponder or Preordain.

[LOurs]

Funny, i didnt notice before that he won a brainstorm along with the P9 (at the left of the black lotus on the picture) :tongue:

[socialite]

:rolleyes:
Look at who he hangs out with.


Oscar Flores has allegedly admitted to cheating off the record, Nate Pease got banned from Vintage (for cheating), and didn't either Max Tietze or Mike Posgay get DQed from Nationals or something?

Yeap Yeap. One of my favorite MTG stories involves me watching Nate Pease cheat in the -first- T1 tournament he played in after being unbanned by the community. He pledged to not cheat stating that he had "grown up" - Lawls. People like this make me rather sick and deserve a major beatdown.

[Rune]

I always wondered how this not-really-that-amazing player kept putting up these kinds of results. It's strange that he didn't pick up a Brainstorm deck sooner than he did. That card is basically a wet dream come true for sleight of hand artists (read: cheaters). He has taken a big dump all over the integrity of the SCG circuit, and everything they stand for is a total joke until they fix this situation. I'm pretty sure he doesn't give a flying fuck about getting DCI banned, because he was going to quit Magic anyway, but I really hope SCG can get their money and P9 back from him somehow.

[CookedChestnuts]

From his Twitter:

amentalmisstep Alex Bertoncini
Quitting magic next year. Looking for people who can help me get on track for a real job. Anyone?

[wcm8]

If I were an employer, I would not want to hire someone who cheats in a leisure activity. What does it say of someone's character? I certainly would not want a cheater working at or representing my company.

[LOurs]

I heard David Copperfield is looking for an assistant. If everything around this story is confirmed, I guess it could be an idea to explore.

[Alexeezay]

Omg in the reanimator vs. merfolk video,G1 Alex drew a total of 5 cards off brainstorm without taking a single card back. while he Force of Will'd the Merfolks FoW after drawing the first 3 cards. What the fuck...that is definitely a Game Loss

[I am the brainwasher]

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/953/bssev.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/bssev.jpg/)

[Richard Cheese]

Like it or not, this is only going to get worse as the game gets more popular. Prize payouts get higher, cards are worth more, and liars, cheats and thieves just can't resist the call of the green.

Money is a hell of a drug.

[Damoxx]

Like it or not, this is only going to get worse as the game gets more popular. Prize payouts get higher, cards are worth more, and liars, cheats and thieves just can't resist the call of the green.

Money is a hell of a drug.


See GP: Chicago.

At least they caught the guys stealing bags.

[conboy31]

"StarCityGames.com ‎(Jared) The brainstorm play was analyzed in the HD version from our archives frame by frame to count and track the individual cards drawn. What seems to be a fourth card is actually a shadow caused by a bend in the sleeve. Sorry guys, but this one is on the up and up."

I am very curious for StarCity to release a 5 second video clip of the HD version. I feel like the low res shows fairly well that there are indeed 4 cards.

http://i.imgur.com/QYOPW.jpg

edit - "The line that passes right by the tip of his ring finger is a shadow on the bottom card's sleeve. This same frame was pointed out to me right after the event and I had the same exact reaction - "Smoking Gun!" - but after reviewing the HD, it is clearly 3 cards."

The 4th card isn't the one by the ring finger. It is the index finger.

[Mr Miagi]

That mother fucker is a goddamn cheater and a really bad one! You can easily notice him. That judge must either be paid to not give him a game loss or he is retarded! I mean come on, ancestral recall with flash back???? SHAME ON SCG for not "beating the cheater to death"! Every other guy PAID to participate to a FAIR competition! They HAVE to give their money back plus their expenses to get there otherwise they MUST be sued for promoting cheating and stealing people's money by setting up games! This guy should be banned for a decade. He repeatedly cheats!
That's disgusting! And to think that I wanted to go to their events!

Regarding SCG: Basicly what this guy said. If SCG ought to have any further credibility in organizing MtG tournamets they should make a statement/act that condems this kind of behaviour!

[Sloshthedark]

I heard David Copperfield is looking for an assistant. If everything around this story is confirmed, I guess it could be an idea to explore.

I guess it could be an idea 2 explore.

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

"StarCityGames.com ‎(Jared) The brainstorm play was analyzed in the HD version from our archives frame by frame to count and track the individual cards drawn. What seems to be a fourth card is actually a shadow caused by a bend in the sleeve. Sorry guys, but this one is on the up and up."

Oh, so SCG is in on it then? Makes enough sense, they let him do his thing (outrageously bold cheats) and they get a posterboy for their open series. I wouldn't put it past them, SCG will do anything for money. The fact that they sell articles about a game is just beyond fucked to me... They'll do anything that will make them money. SCG's reaction has really soured me against them to be quite frank.

[dschalter]

Like it or not, this is only going to get worse as the game gets more popular. Prize payouts get higher, cards are worth more, and liars, cheats and thieves just can't resist the call of the green.

Money is a hell of a drug.

WoTC's prize support for the PT+GPs and the like has actually dropped dramatically in the last ten years, from more than three million to somewhat more than a million (the PPC does not make up the difference).

[bfeingersh]

Regarding SCG: Basicly what this guy said. If SCG ought to have any further credibility in organizing MtG tournamets they should make a statement/act that condems this kind of behaviour!

They should condemn this kind of behavior, but it's not their place nor their responsibility to persecute potential cheaters. As they said, they passed the info on to the DCI and will follow the DCI's ruling. This is why we have a ruling body for sanctioned play, so independent retailers or tournament organizers don't have to deal with this behavior.

[luckme10]

Loved how Patrick Chapin manages to point out the subtext in Drew Levin's writing. That being, in spite of writing an article about Alex Bertoncini's devious collections, he has indeed, still managed to focus the point of another article about, you guessed it, himself.
I'm glad he took time out of writing his memoirs to post this though. Nobody writes Drew better than Drew.

thepchapin- "Main issue w @drew_levin post is that it is about himself. I, Me & My appear 271 times & He, His, Alex & Bertoncini appears 171"

[conboy31]

Jared at SCG appears very confident that the 4 card brainstorm is only 3. I wish I could see where he is coming from and accept that this is not one of the times Alex cheated. Is anyone else able to graphically illustrate the brainstorm in question?

[Mr Miagi]

They should condemn this kind of behavior, but it's not their place nor their responsibility to persecute potential cheaters. As they said, they passed the info on to the DCI and will follow the DCI's ruling. This is why we have a ruling body for sanctioned play, so independent retailers or tournament organizers don't have to deal with this behavior.

Well obviously they are not "legally" obliged to do anything before the DCI bans this cheaty face from the MtG. If they really passed the evidence to the DCI, well that's at least something.

But as a each tournament organizer, they have the right to "ban" - deny participation to any person, without neccessary giving the explanation/reasons.. which in this case they have plenty of.

As I said.. They have the right to deny Bertoncini the access to any of the SCG MtG events. If they will not excercise this right.. or make any action in this direction.. then their credibility as MtG TO will suffer.

[Sloshthedark]

Even if it *was* just sloppy play, it doesn't mean it should go unpunished. I recall facing an opponent at GP Providence who got a game loss after we got deckchecked and he had forgotten to swap back a few sideboard cards.

well not long ago it cost the ANT player a game 1 and semis at GP Amsterdam, if not so he would most likely win the event ...you just have to call judge on yourself

btw. what are those people sitting beside players in the coverage area, not judges obv. and the 1st brainstorm ruling, how could he EVER get of it? you just count the cards in hand and GY = drawing more cards = Game loss

both Kira and Brainstorm incidents show the same - commentators somehow notice but prefer not to discuss it


If you witness a mistake/cheating like that, it is your responsibility to report it. That was Wescoe's argument with the whole Drew Levin "bet" thing. It didn't really hold a lot of water there, but as a general rule, if you see something that's wrong, game rules wrong, not, "you made the wrong play" wrong, say something.

the question is has to/should/can spectator in the Two explore case call judge on them? (do rules officially somehow deal with this?) ...its 1st grade math obv. rules infraction in crystal clear game state in this case

[ramanujan]

I am convinced. Why would he do this. Does Alex not realize that cheating to succede is going to have a huge impact in his career. Even if he garnered 20 grand from his dishonesty, he will be put to the bottom of every list of applicants for the rest of his life whenever he applies for a real job. His cheating will end up costing him money unless he wants to work in fast food. There comes a point when most 20 somethings decide grow up and earn a living. He will probably never live this down.

That picture of him with the P9 in his mouth makes me laugh. He traded a great deal of potential future earnings for 14 grand now.

[UnderwaterGuy]

Loved how Patrick Chapin manages to point out the subtext in Drew Levin's writing. That being, in spite of writing an article about Alex Bertoncini's devious collections, he has indeed, still managed to focus the point of another article about, you guessed it, himself.
I'm glad he took time out of writing his memoirs to post this though. Nobody writes Drew better than Drew.

thepchapin- "Main issue w @drew_levin post is that it is about himself. I, Me & My appear 271 times & He, His, Alex & Bertoncini appears 171"

chapin knows all about bending the rules/laws

[luckme10]

Twitter Updates:

Anyone following these? I think PV is taking a very calm mediating approach here. Having said that, he seems to be tweeting like a madman.

Nightmare and Chapin are also going off. Anyone have any other good tweets to ease-drop in on? I'm pretty bored at work.

[conboy31]

Oh, so SCG is in on it then?

Well, what troubles me is that I played in a 2hg booster draft with Jared and met him second time. He seemed like a rigid, rules orientated guy. If he says he looked carefully at the HD footage and says only 3 exist, that makes me legitimately pause at saying there are 4 cards, even though it -appears- that way.

[Tammit67]

both Kira and Brainstorm incidents show the same - commentators somehow notice but prefer not to discuss it



the question is has to/should/can spectator in the Two explore case call judge on them? (do rules officially somehow deal with this?) ...its 1st grade math obv. rules infraction in crystal clear game state in this case

Yes, a spectator is allowed to request a pause in the game as he gets a judge

[Sloshthedark]

If he says he looked carefully at the HD footage and says only 3 exist, that makes me legitimately pause at saying there are 4 cards, even though it -appears- that way.



AB = Geoff Hurst of Magic

[Michael Keller]

Loved how Patrick Chapin manages to point out the subtext in Drew Levin's writing. That being, in spite of writing an article about Alex Bertoncini's devious collections, he has indeed, still managed to focus the point of another article about, you guessed it, himself.
I'm glad he took time out of writing his memoirs to post this though. Nobody writes Drew better than Drew.

thepchapin- "Main issue w @drew_levin post is that it is about himself. I, Me & My appear 271 times & He, His, Alex & Bertoncini appears 171"

This coming from the same guy who wrote a book about himself? How arrogant. I never cared much for Chapin, and he has no clue what he's talking about. He's all talk, and I'll bet you anything he saw what Bertoncini did on camera while he was commentating and never said a word to cover for him. If you think for one second Bertoncini wouldn't forgo an illegal play willfully, you'd best believe Chapin would catch it. And because it happened, he probably gasped in disbelief in his own mind that someone like Bertoncini would be so brash to do that in front of a live audience to see.

Hardly preposterous from the mindset of two clearly annotated "professionals."

Drew Levin is only under fire from people who refuse to believe what they see and are using it as a scapegoat under the pretext of his prior engagements. None of that matters. He opened the community's eyes up to a professional cheat blissfully at work, and the lemmings that follow(ed) Bertoncini will use any excuse to defend his credibility when visual evidence clearly indicates a rat working his trade.

EDIT: And Jared is turning a blind eye to save face for what is clearly a fourth card off Brainstorm. I have 20/100 vision in both eyes and I could make that shit out without my glasses/contacts in. No matter what, Bertoncini's integrity has gone to shit, and that in the long-run will damage him far worse than any banning he might receive.

[cdr]

This thread makes me sad, but I expected nothing else.

[clavio]

I think the worst thing about this is how it makes cheating look easy. So far he has gotten away with really big cheats while everyone watched him. Now a bunch of amateurs will think it is easy to cheat a little bit. It's going to be hard to prove the integrity of any tournament from now on.

It is hard to prove the things he did as being blatant cheats. I've mulliganed and accidentally drawn seven. I could see people doing it on purpose all the time now. Fucking fuck.

......Sup chess.

[TonyRo]

I think the worst thing about this is how it makes cheating look easy. So far he has gotten away with really big cheats while everyone watched him. Now a bunch of amateurs will think it is easy to cheat a little bit. It's going to be hard to prove the integrity of any tournament from now on.

It is hard to prove the things he did as being blatant cheats. I've mulliganed and accidentally drawn seven. I could see people doing it on purpose all the time now. Fucking fuck.

......Sup chess.

I've been playing chess competitively for a decade or so, and trust me, it's no rosier on the other side. Take solace in the fact that no one cares about MTG AI, because chess computers already wreck the best humans on the planet quite easily, and this makes it incredibly tempting to cheat with a cell phone or something.

[I am the brainwasher]

This thread makes me sad, but I expected nothing else.


Makes you sad regarding what?
Bertoncini's/SCG's (writers, crew included) behaviour or that this is all ripped apart within seconds by TS members?
Agree that this is sad as a whole but definetly leaning on the blame Bertoncini-side.

[Shawn]

Yes, a spectator is allowed to request a pause in the game as he gets a judge

This depends on what the Rule Enforcement Level (REL) is.



• Remaining silent and passive during matches and other official tournament sections, such as Limited
deck construction, in which players are also required to be silent. If spectators believe they have
observed a rules or policy violation, they are encouraged to alert a judge as soon as possible. At
Regular or Competitive REL, spectators are permitted to ask the players to pause the match while
they alert a judge. At Professional REL, spectators must not interfere with the match directly.

Professional REL= Day 2 of Grand Prix, PTs, etc.

[Justin]

From his Twitter:

amentalmisstep Alex Bertoncini
Quitting magic next year. Looking for people who can help me get on track for a real job. Anyone?

Alex is on the same level as former USC and current Seatle Seahawks football coach Pete Carrol. Win a lot by cheating and then bail for another job before the ban hammer comes down.

[Aggro_zombies]

Alex is on the same level as former USC and current Seatle Seahawks football coach Pete Carrol. Win a lot by cheating and then bail for another job before the ban hammer comes down.
Achievement Unlocked: Become Liability to Sponsor.

[Ben]

"StarCityGames.com ‎(Jared) The brainstorm play was analyzed in the HD version from our archives frame by frame to count and track the individual cards drawn. What seems to be a fourth card is actually a shadow caused by a bend in the sleeve. Sorry guys, but this one is on the up and up."

I am very curious for StarCity to release a 5 second video clip of the HD version. I feel like the low res shows fairly well that there are indeed 4 cards.

http://i.imgur.com/QYOPW.jpg

edit - "The line that passes right by the tip of his ring finger is a shadow on the bottom card's sleeve. This same frame was pointed out to me right after the event and I had the same exact reaction - "Smoking Gun!" - but after reviewing the HD, it is clearly 3 cards."

The 4th card isn't the one by the ring finger. It is the index finger.

Funny that SCG made a statement to protect the cheater while it is pretty OBVIOUSE that Bertoncini drew 4 cards. Bsides this Brainstorm incident isn't the only cheat scam Bertoncini did.

I think the take home message is "It only count as cheating if you get caught. Even you DO get caught if you have SCG to back your arse up then it still does not count as cheating"

[cdr]

Oh, give me a break.

There's one thing SCG cares about, and that's fairness. Their events department is run entirely by judges.

Just because someone likely cheated in some instances does not mean every instance someone accuses them of cheating is automatically true. There are multiple accusations I see brought up that I know for a fact are crocks. If you look hard for something, you tend to find it, whether it's actually there or not.

[264505]

The 2 Explores video made me sick. The more people realize he cheats, the closer he will get watched and the harder it will be to do it in the future...hopefully.

[conboy31]

deleted. Missed a post.

[SpikeyMikey]

Oh, give me a break.

There's one thing SCG cares about, and that's fairness. Their events department is run entirely by judges.

Just because someone likely cheated in some instances does not mean every instance someone accuses them of cheating is automatically true. There are multiple accusations I see brought up that I know for a fact are crocks. If you look hard for something, you tend to find it, whether it's actually there or not.

People like to overreact to things. The long and short of it is that calmer heads will be the ones making the final decisions.

[mcfarland]

More than Bertoncini's blatant cheating (scumbags exist), I'm interested in what this says about the player base as a whole. I think that we're pretty naive, and understandably so.

Almost all of us entered Magic as people that just wanted to play a fun game with a few friends. Most folks don't cheat with their buddies. As we transition into competitive players, we hold onto the fact that this is a gentleman's game. We don't expect our opponents to cheat, because they're occupying the same seat that our best friends did a few years ago.


Like it or not, this is only going to get worse as the game gets more popular.

Agreed. If poker players could get away with cheap slight of hand tricks on the World Poker Tour, they would. But they can't, because that game's culture (players, officials and spectators) is pretty vigilant, both casually and professionally.

For me, the takeaway is that we (as the community) need to start keeping each other in check. Players should keep a close eye on their opponent, spectators need to learn their rights when it comes to reporting shady plays, and judges need to assume that every player at a competitive event, regardless of their reputation, has the capacity to cheat if given the chance.

My $.02.

-Mike

[mcfarland]

Also, take back the cash, the Moxen, the lotus and the Recall, then suspend the little bastard.

Let him keep the Timetwister to remind him that he's a little bastard.

[The Pharmacist]

Also, take back the cash, the Moxen, the lotus and the Recall, then suspend the little bastard.

Let him keep the Timetwister to remind him that he's a little bastard.

LOL, That's great

[hi-val]

How To Not Get Cheated On Brainstorms and Cantrips

It is relatively easy to draw extra cards against people if they aren't paying attention. The way to prevent this is to simply ask, in response to any card draw, is to say "how many cards in your hand?" Make them count them to show you. Write that number down on your life pad. Ask an opponent to lay the cards on the table before they draw. Yes, you have to do this every time. Yes, you have to be especially careful when someone uses Jace. After they resolve their effect, ask again how many cards there are. Doing this early and often puts people on notice. You'll get sloppy about asking this if you're in the lead; this is exactly when someone is going to try to cheat you.

I enjoy practicing amateur magic tricks with a deck of playing cards. I can manipulate a deck of cards in dazzling ways if you let me keep it in my hands and you don't check my work. I can draw two cards and make it look like I drew one. I can count the cards in my hand by stacking two on top of each other and make it look like I have far fewer. I obviously don't do any of this in Magic, even though it'd really easy to do because you can exploit the "loading screen" parts of Magic (like shuffling and tutoring). Touch your opponent's cards. They have sleeves on them, they can take it.

I'm baffled that people get lax about enforcing these things when they are playing against known shady people.

[cdr]

PV(DDR) and Knutson really got into it on twitter, unsurprisingly. IIRC Knutson years ago was gleefully spreading rumors of all Brazilian players being cheaters, including a young PV - Knutson has a long history of accusing people of cheating, accurately and not. Not surprised he wanted to publish this.

[caiomarcos]

It's easy to see that in this much debated Brainstorm he only gets 3 cards.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BBBBp2XaQho/TuasjPi65MI/AAAAAAAAKoE/Fpafoa2xwzU/s640/QYOPW.jpg

The cards edges are dark lines, the white line is a bent on the shield, not an edge between the top card and the one under it, just like the big white area on the top card.
This false color image shows it better, making the difference between bend and edge much clearer.

All other instaces: cheater.

[death]

Not buying it unless someone else replicates the scenario. I've owned hundreds of those sleeves (KMC metallic blue), they're too slim to bend and to produce a perfectly vertical dent like that without marking the sleeves is hard to imagine.

[bfeingersh]

PV(DDR) and Knutson really got into it on twitter, unsurprisingly. IIRC Knutson years ago was gleefully spreading rumors of all Brazilian players being cheaters, including a young PV - Knutson has a long history of accusing people of cheating, accurately and not. Not surprised he wanted to publish this.

His editor note on Drew's post stated that he's more than happy to publish Alex's rebuttal if he chooses to defend himself.

[rocketrae21]

A little bit of humor to add to this thread.
By Justin Treadway
http://yfrog.com/hsca6kmj

Regardless if he drew 3 or 4 cards, the other instances are enough evidence. I really want to delete him from facebook so I don't have to see his posts and random people sucking his manhood in the comments, but I want to see a resolution to all of this and see his reaction.

If he doesn't get banned, he will be hated by the community more so and people will just watch him like a hawk, if they don't already

[nayon]

My video explaining the 4 cards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF1YmhS7L0k

[TsumiBand]

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11944/12231431.jpg

It's one thing if the information is hidden, like game rules involving APNAP or obscure gamestates that only occur when there's things like Humility, Serra's Blessing and Phantom Centaur in play, but just casting a spell and somehow using its effect twice in one turn? I wish *my* Explores said "Play three lands. If target judge would issue you a Warning, he issues you a Caution instead."

I guess the part I don't understand is thinking you can get away with it when there's a guy and a cellphone, like, right there. There's SO many instances of foul play, you just start thinking he wants to get caught.

[zulander]

From his Twitter:

amentalmisstep Alex Bertoncini
Quitting magic next year. Looking for people who can help me get on track for a real job. Anyone?

Does he realize "real jobs" do background checks?

GFG

[ivanpei]

Let's keep posting till the first freaking google hit on Alex bertoncini is a thread on him cheating. Enjoy that 20 k, it won't last you long if you can't get a job.

Also I couldn't help myself:

http://m.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-d.ak/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/388958_10150528046786834_512416833_10513638_1125056687_n.jpg?dl=1

[lordofthepit]

Alex is on the same level as former USC and current Seatle Seahawks football coach Pete Carrol. Win a lot by cheating and then bail for another job before the ban hammer comes down.

Poor analogy. The NCAA accused Pete Carroll of nothing, and only stated that the athletic program "should have known" that Reggie Bush was taking benefits. Most notably, Reggie Bush was given benefits by a former family friend turned agent, who provided those benefits for the purpose of inducing him to leave school early. If anything, USC was put at a competitive disadvantage as a result of these benefits.

Bailing for another job was very sketchy though.

[JeroenC]

A little bit of humor to add to this thread.
By Justin Treadway
http://yfrog.com/hsca6kmj

This is the only funny image macro I've seen in this thread.

I sincerely doubt that the sleeves can bend in such a way, since I've never seen any sleeves that have that much extra room to be able to do that.

To the person that said Flored (Edgar) had admitted to cheating, any sources? When I google that, the only relevant hit is this thread.

[Xenocide]

My video explaining the 4 cards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pF1YmhS7L0k
+1
This shows pretty clearly that there are 4 cards. A quick recap for those unwilling to click: there is a frame that clearly shows four corners, not just a 4th edge.

[phonics]

I'll admit I didn't watch the brainstorm video prior to my previous post and regardless the first brainstorm prior was insane.

This is the only funny image macro I've seen in this thread.

I sincerely doubt that the sleeves can bend in such a way, since I've never seen any sleeves that have that much extra room to be able to do that.

To the person that said Flored (Edgar) had admitted to cheating, any sources? When I google that, the only relevant hit is this thread.

I dont know about him admitting, but I heard that he had 'issues' in competitive yu gi oh prior to magic.

[Sloshthedark]

+1
This shows pretty clearly that there are 4 cards. A quick recap for those unwilling to click: there is a frame that clearly shows four corners, not just a 4th edge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3vR3a0d7jg&feature=related
why just frames while cards on the table - look while he draws the off the top 0:05 (most of us drew 3 thousand times, how does it feel?) and while he turns them into his hand 0:21

[Fl0do]

At least Brainstorm will be banned in Legacy because of its potential to be abused by cheaters. :laugh:

[xfxf]

That picture of him holding the big paycheck and the power 9 is a picture you can show to your children and give them an important life lesson: "Liars, cheaters and such only lose in cartoons. In real life they get away with it and you need to suck it up. Either be a loser or cheat harder"

Obviously this comes after you tell them there is no Santa.

XD

[Machahiko]

Please calm yourselves, I am deeply disgusted by this also, but before further information or message from DCI / Alex himself, I think it's not the right thing to blame him and wreck his image. He might have done an honest mistake, maybe, maybe, but I don't want to blame anyone. I just want to stay neutral and wait for DCI to do their job, they usually do their stuff thorough and well. Also, they aren't known for being very nice or letting things go through their hands.

[Brushwagg]

Poor analogy. The NCAA accused Pete Carroll of nothing, and only stated that the athletic program "should have known" that Reggie Bush was taking benefits. Most notably, Reggie Bush was given benefits by a former family friend turned agent, who provided those benefits for the purpose of inducing him to leave school early. If anything, USC was put at a competitive disadvantage as a result of these benefits.

Bailing for another job was very sketchy though.

No USC is on probation and Carroll did leave before the hammer came down.

[DrHealex]

i have experienced Alex's extra land droppingness. Scg indy, I was on monored, he was on solar flare. It was a feature match rnd 2 or 3, game 3, on his turn 3 he main phases an alchemy and drops another land. I CATCH him and he thinks a minute and takes the move back. At the time, It seemed like an honest mistake (who mains an alchemy?) and he seems like a nice kid (he won anyways btw) I still give him the benefit of the doubt but I do know that extra land drops are one of the hardest acts of cheating to prove to a judge mid to late game on a cluttered board.

[death]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3vR3a0d7jg&feature=related

In this slow motion video you can almost see him peel 4 cards right from the top. The theory that the 4th card is just an illusion produced by bending of the back sleeve of the 3rd card doesn't justify why there are 4 actual corners (seen in this video) as he fanned out the cards into his hand. Bending of sleeves doesn't create angular corners and sharply delineated-defined borders. This just shows how easy it is to manipulate card draws to cheat an unsuspecting opponent/spectator and get away with.

[Augustas]

dunno, I still see three cards and the actual moment when the card bending creates the effect of the fourth card x_x

[3eowulf]

The slow-mo video almost clearly shows only 3 cards drawn sorry guys :tongue:

Still the others are pretty damning evidence and hopefully enough to get him suspended for a loooong time!

[death]

dunno, I still see three cards and the actual moment when the card bending creates the effect of the fourth card x_x

It's a youtube video, did you click play? At this point if the video doesn't convince you, no one else can except Alex Bertoncini himself, that is if he decides to come clean and if he still have a conscience.

Conscience | Define Conscience at Dictionary.com
noun 1. the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action

[DLlama]

I think that the differences of people's opinions is largely due to the fuzziness of the video. Getting the HD footage would probably clear this right up. While myself and others can usually trust SCG in most things, this event has cause such a stir in the community most people won't be convinced of the truth (whatever that may be) without seeing it with their own eyes.

[makochman]

Please calm yourselves, I am deeply disgusted by this also, but before further information or message from DCI / Alex himself, I think it's not the right thing to blame him and wreck his image. He might have done an honest mistake, maybe, maybe, but I don't want to blame anyone. I just want to stay neutral and wait for DCI to do their job, they usually do their stuff thorough and well. Also, they aren't known for being very nice or letting things go through their hands.

What the DCI will or will not do is just part of the issue at hand. People also want to see what SCG will do, whether they will maintain he was not cheating, if he will be allowed to keep his $10k. If he is found to be a cheater, his opponents should at least get some kind of compensation. And what, if any, long-term consequences it will have for tournament play. Because let's be serious here, it's a major screw-up.

[Michael Keller]

Just to reiterate, I wouldn't put the blame squarely on Star City's judging staff here. They do try to uphold rules and regulations enforcement to the highest degree possible and have given Alex stern Warnings and Game Loss infractions in the past.

The time for accusation and speculation is over. Until Bertoncini comes clean or explains himself guiding his image to some sort of redemption, he will always be known as a dirty player. The damage has already been done, no matter how many cards he drew off a single Brainstorm. (The more everyone keeps imaging his photo with witty sayings is probably giving him a chuckle. The best way to deal with him is to forget about him as a person and remember him for his exploits.)

[Augustas]

It's a youtube video, did you click play? At this point if the video doesn't convince you, no one else can except Alex Bertoncini himself, that is if he decides to come clean and if he still have a conscience.

Conscience | Define Conscience at Dictionary.com
noun 1. the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action

O RLY? There's no need to be a smartass as I strongly believe non of this thread participants are retards. Incase you are thinking that I am defending Bertoncini, I don't. He should have been banned long ago, and the fact that StarCity is defending him adds even more oil to the fire. The whole situation is just plain disguisting

[Richard Cheese]

Does he realize "real jobs" do background checks?

GFG

Stop kidding yourself, kid will make a fortune on Wall St. Either that or as a used-car salesman.

[troopatroop]

Have you guys really never cheated at anything? It's thrilling, and that can be addictive. I'm sure Alex got into bad habits as a younger man, got away with cheating in his spots, and felt invincible. He got reckless, and clearly he deserves to be punished. The double explore is really shocking, because he knows he's on camera! Maybe he doesn't think that video will go anywhere, but isn't that Drew Levin behind the video camera? Doesn't he know that guy suspects him? I mean... that's pretty fucking reckless.

So I ask again, because it's what I particularly want to know. Ever cheat a game as a kid? as an adult? what games?

I think people fear the "shame", but there really isn't shame in it, imo. You're playing a very different game at that point, one with much higher stakes, and real life implications. That's some hardcore shit yknow? Guy was #1 eternal under the new DCI rating or something? Crazy...


EDIT: Let me make this more clear. I don't condone cheating, and don't do it myself (anymore), but it's really easy to spot. If you catch 'em cheating, easiest match win you've ever gotten right? I actively hope my opponent is trying to cheat me, because I'm gonna spot it! You have to be one of those people, which has NOTHING to do with being a good "magic" player, but it's always been a large part of the game in live environments. I kinda welcome the excitement, I guess :P

[TsumiBand]

In this slow motion video you can almost see him peel 4 cards right from the top. The theory that the 4th card is just an illusion produced by bending of the back sleeve of the 3rd card doesn't justify why there are 4 actual corners (seen in this video) as he fanned out the cards into his hand. Bending of sleeves doesn't create angular corners and sharply delineated-defined borders. This just shows how easy it is to manipulate card draws to cheat an unsuspecting opponent/spectator and get away with.

Maybe I'm an uncoordinated donkey in a past life, but whenever I draw cards I count them in a small pile and then take them into my hand. Maybe I just don't play across from enough 'pros' but the method being implemented here is enough for me to question anyone when they're drawing cards.

[puppektion]

Looks like starcitygames made a statement (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/23260_Statement_Regarding_Alex_Bertoncini.html). Mind you, I can't say *what* they've said yet (I'm still stumbling through it now), but I thought I'd put it out here.

Edit: I know I shouldn't be, but I'm disappointed. I guess I was hoping that they'd actually do something here.

[dillonkbase]

I was watching the video (http://blip.tv/scglive/scgatl-leg-rd-6-alex-bertoncini-vs-alex-smith-5554549) of him brainstorm, and then kibler starts talking about his disorganized deck list, and I wonder if this is tied at all to the presideboarding...

[Richard Cheese]

Looks like starcitygames made a statement (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/23260_Statement_Regarding_Alex_Bertoncini.html). Mind you, I can't say *what* they've said yet (I'm still stumbling through it now), but I thought I'd put it out here.

Edit: I know I shouldn't be, but I'm disappointed. I guess I was hoping that they'd actually do something here.

I don't see why they would. I think their response is pretty clear and rational. SCG doesn't want to step on the DCI's toes, and rightly so. The DCI should be the one making a ruling here, as it applies to him wherever/whenever he plays the game, not just at events hosted by a single entity.

[kiblast]

I think SCG's response pretty much closes this thread. They noticed AB's cheating habit, and they reported the case to DCI. DCI is now investigating. And that article clearly says that the investigation will very probably close soon (and we all know what the final verdict will be, there is too much evidence to deny this and SCG has absolutely no interest in defending Alex)... I'm 99% sure that Bertoncini will get an 18 months ban by the end of the week.

[Ben]

Well SCG forget to mention the important thing. Where will the prize go after the investigation is over and found out Bertoncini is guilty.

Since Bertoncini is supposedly going to be quitting Magic anyway, even DCI bans him for life it won't do a thing to him. Yet if you take away the 10k and Powers and give them back to the deserved player will have more of an impact.

Don't tell me that it is only rational SCG will take back the money and Powers back when DCI found Bertoncini is a cheater so SCG does not need to mention it in their statement. As long as they didn't mention it things may not happen at all.

[socialite]

Maybe I'm an uncoordinated donkey in a past life, but whenever I draw cards I count them in a small pile and then take them into my hand. Maybe I just don't play across from enough 'pros' but the method being implemented here is enough for me to question anyone when they're drawing cards.

This annoys the shit out of me as well. In fact I actually make people put the cards back and draw them individually whenever this occurs during a REL competitive and above match. There's really no reason to draw cards like this unless you have intent to cheat or are playing sloppy which is a nobo in my book.

[chags]

Well SCG forget to mention the important thing. Where will the prize go after the investigation is over and found out Bertoncini is guilty.

Since Bertoncini is supposedly going to be quitting Magic anyway, even DCI bans him for life it won't do a thing to him. Yet if you take away the 10k and Powers and give them back to the deserved player will have more of an impact.

Don't tell me that it is only rational SCG will take back the money and Powers back when DCI found Bertoncini is a cheater so SCG does not need to mention it in their statement. As long as they didn't mention it things may not happen at all.

They won't take back his prize, how can they? If they take back the invitational prize without mention of proof of him cheating AT THE INVITATIONAL then they would have to take away the prize he has earned from each scg top 8. There is no feasible way to take back that amount of money and try to redistribute it to other players. Do you give the guy who got 9th in every tourney bertoncini top 8ed some prize? The only thing they could easily take away from him and give to another is the player of the year prize (the power 9). I still don't think they'll take that back either, though I think they should.

[razvan]

Can't believe I smoked this dude out. Can't smoke out villains.

-1 for me.
Funny that your 420th post involves weed, eh Antonius? Fancy seeing you outside the Aggro Loam threads.

edit: also, I don't understand the hate towards SCG. They did precisely what they should, get the one governing body involved. They cannot take action without investigation, and I am sure the DCI is a far better choice to do the investigation.

Also, that picture with the "This check is too big to be a single check" is amazing.

[MirrorMask]

If you are correct (they DO take medals back at Olympic Games by the way in similar situations), then SCG has already lost its credibility. They either hire bad judges and can't uphold their promise for a fair competition or they set up games (which I do believe is the case- the judge can't be so naive and stupid. What level was he?).
What I expect them to do is give the all the rewards to the second player. Nothing more, nothing less.

[alderon666]

Funny that your 420th post involves weed, eh Antonius? Fancy seeing you outside the Aggro Loam threads.

edit: also, I don't understand the hate towards SCG. They did precisely what they should, get the one governing body involved. They cannot take action without investigation, and I am sure the DCI is a far better choice to do the investigation.

Also, that picture with the "This check is too big to be a single check" is amazing.

AB has been a known cheater for the longest time. Couldn't they have advised their judges to pay closer attention to his games? What about after he cheated on camera for the first time?

It just looks bad for SCG that this guy is cheating on camera and getting away with it. Had this tournment not had any video coverage, we wouldn't even be discussing this. It would be just a sore lose story...

[cdr]

AB has been a known cheater for the longest time.

Known how, exactly? He's been accused of it for a long time, yes, but with zero proof and a lot of sour grapes. People get accused of cheating all the time and rarely is it accurate. I doubt there's a single successful player in the history of Magic that hasn't been accused of cheating by someone.



Couldn't they have advised their judges to pay closer attention to his games? What about after he cheated on camera for the first time?

There was no reason to ask anything of the sort. He was never "caught cheating on camera" or he'd have been DQed already. Assuming Drew Levin sent a letter to Sheldon in August, I can guarantee you Bertoncini's been under extra scrutiny since then (and Bertoncini likely knew about it too, since Levin didn't exactly make a secret of his allegations).

[Mark Sun]

Just FYI, he plans to write an article telling his side of the story. Some of the evidence that has been presented has been damning, but again, I've been cautious in my judgment and will continue to be until we get more information.

[honestabe]

Just FYI, he plans to write an article telling his side of the story. Some of the evidence that has been presented has been damning, but again, I've been cautious in my judgment and will continue to be until we get more information.

I was always pretty sure that people making cheating allegations were just what bad players did to try and figure out why people were better than them. That being said, Drew makes a very good case, and I'm eager to hear what Alex's retort is.


On a side note, it would be funny if he was just like "YEAH, I DID IT, BITCHES", and then quit magic (which I think he was already planning on doing)

[death]

"YEAH, I DID IT, BITCHES", and then quit magic

That or "TWO explores, TWO explores!" or "You can't FoW my pre-sided Sower when you're at negative 16, JUUDDDGGEE" or "I'm not putting back 2 cards since Jin-Gitaxias will trigger anyway damit!"

[majikal]

They can't "take back" the $10,000 because they haven't given it to him yet. Do you guys honestly think that giant novelty check is valid? He has to wait just like everyone else, and it wouldn't surprise me if they decide not to give it to him. The power, on the other hand, is probably already sold, and that's a shame.

[sdematt]

I'd be pretty skeptical if someone was playing anything like that mainboard. Understandable, too. I was playing somewhere, and I was playing a mainboard piece of hate since I knew the meta was going to be hugely graveyard based. The guy called the judge, but it was fine. Maybe he didn't think to call a judge, but I'd do the same if I saw the nut hate game 1. Doesn't hurt to check, right?

-Matt

[Rune]

I'd like to see him try and explain the Kira incident, because that should be just about impossible.

The first time Vidi bounces Kira with Jace and follows it up with the Scroll, Alex seems to perfectly understand what's happening, and he bins the Kira. The second time the EXACT same sequence of plays takes place, he suddenly forgets how Magic rules work?? The cheat is also very high EV from Alex' perspective, because with Jace no longer on the table, the Kira could very well turn the game around and beat the Cursed Scroll. All of this taking place on camera is just mind-fucking-blowing.

The Explore cheat seems a bit strange EV-wise. I would have liked to see the end of that clip and find out if he had Avenger of Zendikar or Preordain into Titan. Otherwise that cheat seems pretty retarded. Also, I didn't know Preordain lets you look at the bottom card of your library. (wtf, random insignificant edge ftw?)

[Esper3k]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

[dsck]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

You dont forget sideboard cards, if you have them you call judge (like kibler did on invitionals). Notice how the sideboard cards he "forgot" are also good in the matchup (not Tormod's Crypts etc).

[Esper3k]

You dont forget sideboard cards, if you have them you call judge (like kibler did on invitionals). Notice how the sideboard cards he "forgot" are also good in the matchup (not Tormod's Crypts etc).

Don't get me wrong. I think he's guilty, but proving intent in things like this is pretty tough.

[edgewalker]

What about the two explorer's vid? I mean, how do you forget and put an extra land in play, then deny it when you're asked about it? I think asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution is pretty shady too.

[Esper3k]

What about the two explorer's vid? I mean, how do you forget and put an extra land in play, then deny it when you're asked about it? I think asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution is pretty shady too.

There are plenty of times when people have forgotten if they've played a land or not. How often had you had an opponent ask you if they've played a land that turn?

I don't see anything inherently wrong with asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution, especially if it costs you nothing to do so.

[CorpT]

There are plenty of times when people have forgotten if they've played a land or not. How often had you had an opponent ask you if they've played a land that turn?

I don't see anything inherently wrong with asking to have a warning downgraded to a caution, especially if it costs you nothing to do so.

Except that the land situation was easily countable. You could very easily count up cards and figure out what turn it was and how many lands should be in play. But Alex wanted no part in that and wanted the whole thing to be dismissed and rushed past. That was clear in the video. If he was interested in resolving the situation, they could have stopped and figured it out.

[Esper3k]

Except that the land situation was easily countable. You could very easily count up cards and figure out what turn it was and how many lands should be in play. But Alex wanted no part in that and wanted the whole thing to be dismissed and rushed past. That was clear in the video. If he was interested in resolving the situation, they could have stopped and figured it out.

Again, I also believe he's guilty (and from now on will forever be answering my opponents' questions with "Two Explores").

I just don't think it's as simple to prove intent as people seem to believe it is.

[Koby]

The thing is, all of these things can be explained by "oops, I forgot".

It's pretty difficult to prove intent. I think he'll have to have a pretty long DCI history of these types of warnings before DCI really does anything to him.

DCI judges cannot hand out penalties on intent or motive. They can only hand out penalties on actual performed actions. Playing an extra land is a Warning/Warning/Game Loss at REL Competitive. A history of repeated offenses can raise suspicion, but nothing is done during the tournament outside of the standard penalty guide.

[Richard Cheese]

Again, I also believe he's guilty (and from now on will forever be answering my opponents' questions with "Two Explores").

I just don't think it's as simple to prove intent as people seem to believe it is.

http://i.backpackgnome.com/6348659884ee7d38f5f7d84.48631554.jpg

[vilik]

The Explore cheat seems a bit strange EV-wise. I would have liked to see the end of that clip and find out if he had Avenger of Zendikar or Preordain into Titan. Otherwise that cheat seems pretty retarded. Also, I didn't know Preordain lets you look at the bottom card of your library. (wtf, random insignificant edge ftw?)


Guy is a REAL magician.

http://mixedknuts.wordpress.com/2011/12/12/unlocking-the-cheats-of-scg-player-of-the-year-alex-bertoncini/#comment-548

Edit:

For the sakes of actually posting anything useful, here goes:

http://wherethemeatcomesfrom.blogspot.com/2011/12/real-next-level.html

Also, let me be so bold and point out a few things that spring to my mind from this public bashing (which I btw think AB fully deserves - having seen the videos I am convinced he repeatedly cheated and has done so on purpose).

1) If you play in major (money-wise) tournament, be paranoid and assume your opponent is going to cheat. Act accordingly.

2) If you play in major (money-wise) tournament, be paranoid and assume your opponent is going to cheat. Stop being naive.

3) Judges at major tournaments need to be trained to spot dexterity tricks. This actually seems more vital than knowing rules (as long as there is at least one judge who knows the rules, the others should focus on card tricks).

4) SCG needs to think about how they market themselves. Apparently they need better eye for picking their stars.

5) SCG needs to publicly denounce this. The have lost enough credit as is.

[nayon]

When there are so many misplays and they are so egregious that it's indistinguishable from cheating, then the DCI should treat it as cheating.

[puppektion]

Is this going too far?

http://i39.tinypic.com/z9u1i.jpg

If no action is taken, I'll assume as much.

[ramanujan]

Had to chime in here.

The DCI does not need to prove anything regarding intent. This is not a courtroom and they don't have to follow a specific law. They have guidelines which provide guidance, but I assure you that nobody is concerned about proving things. I am no expert but I can say that the DCI will probably make an example out of Alex. This type of behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.

If some of the cheats that he did were this obvious, imagine all of the things that he did when the camera wasn't rolling. I wonder how many of his merfolk matches went T1 Vial , T2 standstill with counter backup. Slight of hand could make someone unstoppable. I honestly bet that Alex chose to lose sometimes because he didn't want to raise suspicion. I don't know that but I believe it to be possible. I honestly hope he gets life banned for this as I don't want to ever sit across the table from him.

I don't blame SCG or any of the judges for this. SCG is there to earn money by providing a venue and prize support. The judges do their best and it is far to easy to criticize with video evidence. Blaming the judges is like blaming the police for not catching the crook. The judges cannot be everywhere at once and I highly doubt that they were in cahoots or anything like that.

The truth of the matter is that if someone tries hard enough, they can probably get away with cheating. There is no fool proof way to do a paper tournament which does not get exposed to this risk. The best deterrent is probably the stiffest punishment possible.

As for the prize money and P9, I have no earthly idea if SCG can legally demand the return of the prizes. My instinct is to say that they cannot demand the return of the money or the P9, but I am by not by any means an authority here. Perhaps someone with expertise on this subject can chime in, preferably an attorney. I would honestly like to know if Starcitygames can legally force the return of the prizes to the extent of wage garnishing.

Peace

[coraz86]

solid points

I think it comes back to people not looking for this kind of shit; it does seem prudent to have judges walking around trained to watch for deck manipulation, especially if a trained eye can catch it quickly.

I worked at Best Buy one Christmas season, and I once found an opened toaster oven on a shelf--still in the styrofoam and plastic wrap, just without the box. I showed it to my boss, and he immediately rushed back to his office to watch security footage. Turns out some asshole opened the toaster oven, put the unit itself on the shelf, then stuffed the box with whatever video games/DVDs/other shit they really wanted and re-sealed it. They paid for the toaster oven, so when the alarm went off at the door, Loss Prevention checked their receipt and sent them on their merry way.

I've never stolen anything in my life, so that idea hadn't occurred to me. Neither had it occurred to several friends I subsequently talked to about it, even though they're all smart people and some of them had gone through kleptomaniac periods themselves. My boss caught it rapidly because he'd been in retail for twenty years and seen it happen before.

I know that's kind of a long story, but I hope it underscores vilik's point decently.

[MirrorMask]

I have a crazy idea! SCG has messed up pretty bad and so has DCI so far. If people stop going to SCG because the promote cheaters then the Legacy part of the game will stop being so popular and card prices will go downwards in the end which is a good thing because I will finally be able to get those goyfs and Bobs without spending a fortune! yeah!:tongue: Hail Alex B. !

[thickasabrick]

There's an interview up today with Alex on MTGCast if anyone is interested in listening:

FIXED LINK: http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=22067

[Lt. Quattro]

I'm listening to it and he explains that its a combination of haters gonna hate, sloppy play and honest mistakes.

:eek:

[I am the brainwasher]

I am truly disgusted by that interview.
I'm outta here. Really need to puke right now.

[MirrorMask]

Oh come on! Others make mistakes too and took advantage of him! The poor kid...
You guys have nothing constructive to say so you should stop accusing him of false things. Pfff! freaking trolls...


~You've got explored!

P.s: He remembers his "mistakes" awesome memory... he even has "flashbacks".

[TheShaun]

Just saying, everybody thought Casey Anthony was guilty, despite overwhelming and completely obvious evidence against her. But then they "proved" via trial that she was innocent....

[vilik]

I am truly disgusted by that interview.
I'm outta here. Really need to puke right now.

Let me repeat myself.

This guy is makes money from cheating people. He is a professional scammer. He does it on purpose, publicly and without remorse.

Do you seriously think that he is going to publicly admit it? His behaviour shows signs of psychopathy.

STOP BEING NAIVE.

[Sempra]

Its clear to anyone with half a brain that Alex is a rampant cheater. This is more than just sloppy play. And haters gonna hate.. are you kidding me ? You dont accidently pre board in sowers vs plat angel. Or Timely Reinforcements vs rdws... or double explores or ancestral recall with ure brainstorm, then right after 4 card brainstorm haha.. lol.

If you play alot of competetive magic you will know how rampant cheating is. Few do it as heavely as Alex does. But shady playing and shuffeling is a very common thing in the competetive scene.

I hope Alex will be made an example of, and im looking forward to his final sentense!

I will let this case be the decider, with a move that i have been considering for a while now. To sell my entire collection and move to Magic Online. I would hate to do this becouse i like the social part of magic. But cheating is to easy, and something i dont want to see in magic. MODO for competetive magic and cube drafting with friends on the side will do.!

/sry for the bad english, its not my native language :P

[Levgre]

He'll get what's coming..

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y57/Levgre/Witchhunter.png

[Purgatory]

There's an interview up today with Alex on MTGCast if anyone is interested in listening:

http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=22052

The link is broken.

I've followed this thread for the past couple of days, and I've read the blog post by Drew Levin, a couple of other threads on other Magic forums (Svenskamagic.com to be precise), and I must say that I have a hard time being completely neutral towards AB right now. The evidence is overwhelming, and I hope that the DCI will take swift action in their investigation. I also hope that SCG will postpone paying out his last $10k, in case he did cheat at the Invitational.

That said, I have no idea how I would have reacted myself if he had cheated against me. I remember spectating a game at a small, local, unsanctioned event a couple of years ago, and I noticed one of the players drew an extra card one of the turns. The player in question is a really cool, really friendly and funny guy and if someone had blatantly told me before the match that he was going to cheat, I would have laughed. When I did see it happen before my eyes, I didn't know how to react. Since there were no judge there, and his opponent didn't notice, I just walked away, disgusted.

I don't like how the whole deal with AB has become public spectacle, but there is no room for cheating in this game, where people pay money to participate in events with cash prizes.

[thickasabrick]

The link is broken.

I've followed this thread for the past couple of days, and I've read the blog post by Drew Levin, a couple of other threads on other Magic forums (Svenskamagic.com to be precise), and I must say that I have a hard time being completely neutral towards AB right now. The evidence is overwhelming, and I hope that the DCI will take swift action in their investigation. I also hope that SCG will postpone paying out his last $10k, in case he did cheat at the Invitational.

That said, I have no idea how I would have reacted myself if he had cheated against me. I remember spectating a game at a small, local, unsanctioned event a couple of years ago, and I noticed one of the players drew an extra card one of the turns. The player in question is a really cool, really friendly and funny guy and if someone had blatantly told me before the match that he was going to cheat, I would have laughed. When I did see it happen before my eyes, I didn't know how to react. Since there were no judge there, and his opponent didn't notice, I just walked away, disgusted.

I don't like how the whole deal with AB has become public spectacle, but there is no room for cheating in this game, where people pay money to participate in events with cash prizes.

Fixed link: http://www.mtgcast.com/?p=22067

[Offler]

Are there still any "old school" card game events? You know, taking place on a steamer boat on river Mississipi, when caught cheating there is a man overboard... no need to prove anything on court or to DCI, SCG...

DCI or SCG do not need really take care of professional cheaters. Both organizations are doing their job for profit. They dont care who will win and how.

Friends in our playgroup are doing martial arts, own some samurai swords, and when they show me how many weapons they carry I felt really safe :D At some time cheaters started to avoid our playgroup. But not for reason that our friends are armed... Playing casual do not bring profit or personal credit (at least not overtime when you realize that your oponnent used to lie when you was asking something), and when the cheater is found really no personal satisfaction or fun to the guys who are trying to cheat.

And guess what... Most of the cheaters got back to the official club here, causing that the club has 20 members in city with 500 000 citiziens, and at least 400 active magic players. Those people are still attending official events, gaining money and personal credit for some years, until caught at cheating or coercing (which is most common here)...

But thats only a story of a local MTG club and growing group of casual players.

[CorpT]

Just saying, everybody thought Casey Anthony was guilty, despite overwhelming and completely obvious evidence against her. But then they "proved" via trial that she was innocent....

I get what you're saying, but juries don't find people innocent. They find them "not guilty". There is a subtle but distinct difference.


That pdocast was terrible. He really had no defense and just claimed sloppiness and "poor me".

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

oh my god his guiltiness is just awkward in this podcast

kid can't even defend himself and he's constantly stumbling over his words and doesn't know how he wants to lie and keeps fucking up his responses

[CorpT]

oh my god his guiltiness is just awkward in this podcast

kid can't even defend himself and he's constantly stumbling over his words and doesn't know how he wants to lie and keeps fucking up his responses

That was my take on it too. If anything, it made him sound much worse than before.

[dillonkbase]

Hearing him talk about the Kira incident, I remain convinced that this scrutiny is necessarily. If he was going to pull out the win, the Kira was the best way to do so. Without the knowledge of the backup JMS, I think that against a player with only one more card in hand, a merfolk deck could come back.

[Mr. Safety]

"I don't recall most of them[mistakes]..." - Alex Bertoncini

He seemed to remember the Explore and Kira situations pretty well, with a surprising amount of detail given he had just played '19 rounds of magic.'

Wow, this guy stutters when he's lying more than Porky Pig with parkinsons...

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

"I don't recall most of them[mistakes]..." - Alex Bertoncini

He seemed to remember the Explore and Kira situations pretty well, with a surprising amount of detail given he had just played '19 rounds of magic.'

Wow, this guy stutters when he's lying more than Porky Pig with parkinsons...

Yeah; this is pretty darn transparent in my mind. Sure, you could argue it's nervousness, but, c'mon this is a podcast... You can can totally tell when he has to make stuff up on the spot because it's so disjointed and weird sounding, but when he talks about his Magic career, travelling to events, playtesting etc. he speaks much more fluidly and with more confidence.

[luckme10]

Yeah; this is pretty darn transparent in my mind. Sure, you could argue it's nervousness, but, c'mon this is a podcast... You can can totally tell when he has to make stuff up on the spot because it's so disjointed and weird sounding, but when he talks about his Magic career, travelling to events, playtesting etc. he speaks much more fluidly and with more confidence.

Or you know, answering questions about accusations of him cheating, regardless of whether it was intentional or not, would put anyone on the defensive. It makes sense to naturally not respond to those as well. All it shows to me is that he's less comfortable addressing the accusations as he is talking about stuff that doesn't have his credibilty on trial.

[Jonathan Alexander]

Did anyone else notice that when he says "I consider myself a pretty good deck tuner" it first sounds like he's going to say "I consider myself a pretty good cheater"? Found that rather amusing.

Other than that, this thread is ridiculous.

[troopatroop]

It's the interview BEFORE the questions about it that indicates it for me. He's so on edge... very nervous. This is the act of a man who wants to keep playing Magic. Will he fool everyone? We'll see about that.

[Dxfiler]

Doesn't SCG want a regular group of 'characters' to win these things? Why else would they have given people byes for so long, appearance fees, etc.?

They want a stable of 'Magic Stars' because (and this is pretty sad in the big game of life) because people tend to barn up on these guys, especially the fringe players. It probably drives premium membership, attendance etc.. Maybe this zoloft snorting fool is the 'villian' of their little tour. With all the variance in magic (in both in game draws, your opponents draws, and most importantly your matchups) it's hard to imagine the same person winning multiple 8-12 round tournaments consistently without cheating a little bit.

They absolutely want their own stars. The problem is their main guy is clearly more than a 'villain.' He is a serial cheater. I don't think it's a coincidence he's suddenly decided to quit next year, according to his twitter.

This definitely isn't what SCG wanted, but they're handling it the best they can.

Also in response to some other posts I saw in various forums suggesting SCG judges would not act on Alex cheating if they saw him do it-
Anyone who thinks a judge would purposely look the other way to protect someone is just clueless. Judges are still members of the DCI judging family regardless of where and who they are judging for.

No judge in a sanctioned tournament looks the other way, ever.

Honestly it just seems like Berto is really good at slight of hand and alot people miss what he's doing, including live commentators who have won PT's like Kibler.

He's probably quitting in anticipation of being banned. He'll get to keep his prizes. It's the best scenario at this point. Maybe he creeps back in a couple years with a new maturity level and puts his past behind him, maybe he never comes back.

The hope is the DCI acts upon the reams of information they have and actually does something about it rather than wait for him to cheat again if he does continue to play.

- Dave

[Justin]

I was thinking a bit more on the possible banning of Bertoncini by the DCI. Has a player ever been banned in the past strictly on the basis of video evidence such as this? It seems like it's usually a case of a player who was caught cheating by a judge during an event. Has Bertoncini ever been caught cheating and DQed from an event? If not, it may be more difficult for the DCI to make a decision to ban him, especially if there exists no precendent for banning a player on video evidence alone. Although Bertoncini looks extremely sketchy in some of those videos, there is not 100% proof that his intent was to cheat in any of them. Personally, from what I've seen, I'm more inclined to believe that he is a serial cheater than he is not. However, I think that there's at least a decent chance that the DCI will not ban him.

Another question is if the DCI bans him and SCG tried to withhold the prize money from last weekend's event, would a law suit come out of this?

[mindovermatt]

Another question is if the DCI bans him and SCG tried to withhold the prize money from last weekend's event, would a law suit come out of this?

I've never been to one of these events, but are the players required to sign any kind of legal document?

If there was no legal contract then really only in Nevada is it a crime to cheat. But I don't think he'd have much of a case in a lawsuit.

[xfxf]

In regards to him quitting Magic, I don't think he has any other options. He will be already satisfied with the prizes and feel embarrassed enough to leave now. If he doesn't leave a lot of people will be against him and he'll have a very hard time participating in organized play and facing people. I imagine he'll be outcast in casual games as well aside from suck-ups and wanna be youngsters.

It's hard to carry such a low reputation and much easier to walk away and try to remember the fun parts (10K, anyone?).

[trivial_matters]

The best way to fight cheaters is to cheat yourself, in order to level the playing field somewhat.

Also, having that extra Brainstorm up your sleeve for when you really need it is too convenient to be ignored.

[Julian23]

I've never been to one of these events, but are the players required to sign any kind of legal document?

If there was no legal contract then really only in Nevada is it a crime to cheat. But I don't think he'd have much of a case in a lawsuit.

At least at Grand Prixs, playeres are required to sign a contract for playing in Day2. It's mostly about the Pro Players Club etc.

[dakkon]

I could almost sympathize with sloppy play after 20 rounds of mtg or whatever. But not fessing up after drawing a pre-boarded card or trying to weasel out of a warning? Come on. He might as well say "I've got this thing, and it's f--king golden."

[xfxf]

Oh, I forgot to add... If Kiebler and the other commentators didn't notice the cheats on the video I can't fault them. They are enjoying the game they are watching and focusing on solving the puzzles when they are commenting. They are not like "ok this Merfolk is player is dead, I'd bring back another Kira if I were him" they are more like "if he activates Jace and then the scroll but if he stifles..." whatever. I can fault the judges however. They are there to look out for these things and to concentrate on the game so that each player can focus on their own game instead of what their opponent might be up to each and every second. During my own turn I'd rather be looking at my own cards instead of my opponent's deck and board to see if there are extra cards being drawn or put on.

[cdr]

I can fault the judges however. They are there to look out for these things and to concentrate on the game so that each player can focus on their own game instead of what their opponent might be up to each and every second. During my own turn I'd rather be looking at my own cards instead of my opponent's deck and board to see if there are extra cards being drawn or put on.

Is this a joke? You, the player, are the first and best defense against cheats. Not a judge, not a spectator, not a commentator. Judges explicitly do not "concentrate on the game" - that's your job.

There is a judge at the table for SCG's video feature matches, but that judge is being employed as a spotter - communicating life totals and other information to the coverage crew. That judge necessarily has less attention on the match than either the players or the spectators.

Floor judges are answering judge calls and performing other duties, not watching any particular match.

Bertoncini was not caught primarily because his opponents were swayed by his nice-guy personality and either didn't pay attention enough to notice shady stuff or didn't call a judge like they should have when they did.

[KevinTrudeau]

Another suspect on-camera occurrence at an SCG Open, this time involving the man ranked right behind Alex Bertoncini (if I'm not mistaken) in total SCG Open points, Edgar Flores:

http://blip.tv/scglive/scgkc-leg-rd3-edgar-flores-vs-jordan-zona-5701810

Edgar is on the play and didn't mulligan. Once he begins his second turn (after having played a land on turn one), you can clearly see seven cards in his grip when he fans them out before drawing for the turn, seven again once he plays another land, and six after playing Stoneforge Mystic.

[FieryBalrog]

Is this a joke? You, the player, are the first and best defense against cheats. Not a judge, not a spectator, not a commentator. Judges explicitly do not "concentrate on the game" - that's your job.


This is blaming the victim. Players have a ton of stuff to keep track of while playing; they should not be expected to catch every sleight of hand or underhanded cheat at the same time. It's simply a ridiculous expectation. There is a certain amount of trust that players bring to the game, yes they should be maintaining the game state, but nowhere in the rules are they expected to maintain the game state by seeing through all manner of deliberate cheats which elude even experienced professional players commentating the match.

There are so many places where a player can eke out an advantage and abuse your trust (draw an extra card? play an extra land drop? finagle a complex interaction? "forget" a trigger? stall? abuse a shortcut?), to catch them all it would be nearly impossible to focus on your OWN game. And to wit, even if you do catch something, it's almost always explained away by "a play mistake". And yes, you'd be reluctant to say it was cheating if you weren't sure.

That's abusing the psychology of players and an abuse of the game. It's the tournament's and the judge's responsibility to notice these patterns (from the few times the players DO notice) and take appropriate action. That is, in fact, one of their major responsibilities- to create a play environment where everyone isn't constantly worried that their opponents are trying to cheat them. It's not that judges and organizers should be perfect, but after years of serial cheating and much of it on video, they should be expected to act when it is brought to their attention.

However, I don't think the problem is going away until Magic goes purely digital. There is too much scope for easy cheating in the game because of its rules complexity (unlike, say, chess) and players are heavily incentivized to cheat because of lax enforcement and the possibility of explaining away cheating easily.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

This is blaming the victim. Players have a ton of stuff to keep track of while playing; they should not be expected to catch every sleight of hand or underhanded cheat at the same time. It's simply a ridiculous expectation. There is a certain amount of trust that players bring to the game, yes they should be maintaining the game state, but nowhere in the rules are they expected to maintain the game state by seeing through all manner of deliberate cheats which elude even experienced professional players commentating the match.

There are so many places where a player can eke out an advantage and abuse your trust (draw an extra card? play an extra land drop? finagle a complex interaction? "forget" a trigger? stall? abuse a shortcut?), to catch them all it would be nearly impossible to focus on your OWN game. And to wit, even if you do catch something, it's almost always explained away by "a play mistake". And yes, you'd be reluctant to say it was cheating if you weren't sure.

That's abusing the psychology of players and an abuse of the game. It's the tournament's and the judge's responsibility to notice these patterns (from the few times the players DO notice) and take appropriate action. That is, in fact, one of their major responsibilities- to create a play environment where everyone isn't constantly worried that their opponents are trying to cheat them. It's not that judges and organizers should be perfect, but after years of serial cheating and much of it on video, they should be expected to act when it is brought to their attention.

However, I don't think the problem is going away until Magic goes purely digital. There is too much scope for easy cheating in the game because of its rules complexity (unlike, say, chess) and players are heavily incentivized to cheat because of lax enforcement and the possibility of explaining away cheating easily.

This is patently wrong. Its actually explicitly in the rules that both players need to maintain the game state. That's why the non-offending player can get in trouble for failure to maintain. The fact is that people just didn't want to believe that a nice guy who is a top player is a cheat. It happens. It's one of the reasons I quit YGO back in the day, cheating was rampant, and it didn't have a good judge community to assist when called out. Players need to be less scared to call judges and that is the core problem. Any casual/non-pro player, if they are being honest, would be hesitant to call a judge on a well known player. I admit myself, if I sat down across from someone like LSV and I thought he played an extra land, I would for sure give the benefit of the doubt. That's part of the reason I feel that Saito got cracked down on so hard. Because no one outside of some judges was ever calling him on it, they just complained online. If players more actively called judges when something was suspect, players this shady would never get this far.

TL;DR, if you suspect anything at all, call a judge, that's what they are there for, and a judge will never get mad if you called them to verify a game state.

[FieryBalrog]

This is patently wrong. Its actually explicitly in the rules that both players need to maintain the game state.
I know that. I explicitly mentioned it. The problem is the game is played with a certain degree of implicit trust between the players, like golf is. This is because there is so much scope for abuse and so much hassle and difficulty in trying to detect every possible abuse, not to mention you have to be a bit of a dick while doing so. Which is exactly why Bertoncini (and others) got away with it for so long, because simply dumping the responsibility on the players doesn't work.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

The problem is the game is played with a certain degree of implicit trust between the players, like golf is.

It shouldn't be. At least not when money is on the line. If you wanna relax at the kitchen table thats fine. But at the high levels, especially wit so much on the line like with the starcity events, you need to be on the ball. Simply knowing what turn it is and how many cards your opponent has in hand would solve like 75% of it. Dumping responsibility is the ONLY option, there simply aren't enough judges to watch every game, or even to follow up on every rumor or allegation. Players need to step up, thats the lesson to be learned here. Real judges don't come into your home and ask about crimes, you have to bring evidence to them. Same in magic.

[3eowulf]

Another suspect on-camera occurrence at an SCG Open, this time involving the man ranked right behind Alex Bertoncini (if I'm not mistaken) in total SCG Open points, Edgar Flores:

http://blip.tv/scglive/scgkc-leg-rd3-edgar-flores-vs-jordan-zona-5701810

Edgar is on the play and didn't mulligan. Once he begins his second turn (after having played a land on turn one), you can clearly see seven cards in his grip when he fans them out before drawing for the turn, seven again once he plays another land, and six after playing Stoneforge Mystic.

Send it to the DCI, but he probably just forgot to desideboard his extra card from the previous round :wink:

[Amon Amarth]

I know that. I explicitly mentioned it. The problem is the game is played with a certain degree of implicit trust between the players, like golf is. This is because there is so much scope for abuse and so much hassle and difficulty in trying to detect every possible abuse, not to mention you have to be a bit of a dick while doing so. Which is exactly why Bertoncini (and others) got away with it for so long, because simply dumping the responsibility on the players doesn't work.

I have a hard time concentrating on my own plays and board states and to try to keep track of my opponents Penn and Teller routine is a bit much. Magic is already mentally exhausting at times especially deep into the tournament. It's just not possible for the players alone to always be vigilant.

[marax]

@ Amon Amarth & others
Learn to keep your opponent in check, then. This is important. Make sure they put down 7 cards on the playing area before drawing and make sure you check. Watch them at every Brainstorm, make sure they put back two cards. By two cards I also mean making sure two cards not a quick drop of supposedly 2 cards (or 1). Cut opponents deck after EVERY shuffle. Make a point out of letting every opponent know that you are aware of what is going on. Make a point that you just want to avoid mistakes or doubts because of sloppy play. Honest players will be grateful because it will make for a better playing. Cheaters will know you are on the watch and think twice about pulling their moves on you.

Most importantly though:
You scare the opportunistic players that just wait for the inattentive player so that they can cheat them! Don't be that guy!

It is easy to fall back into the comfort zone of just slinging like at a kitchen table. Look at that "other" guy in the explore video. Would it have been so hard to just check the mana tapped by Bertoncini for the other guy? It is just 4 mana. That is not enough for 2 explore + Preordain. If something appears to be not ok, stop playing and try to reastablish what happened. That guy should have given the dude with the camera a nod for raising concern about a possible wrong board state, have a look at Bertoncini's lands and GY and then he would have quickly realized that something had been going wrong. Then he absolutely needs to call a judge! It is of the uttermost importance that EVERY mistake that you spot goes on through to a judge and will be noted as a "warning". That is the only way to catch people continously making "mistakes" in their favor.

By being a sloppy and inattentive player you let cheaters thrive and hurt not only your own sucess but also that of all other honest players by letting the cheaters have sucess! It is understandable that nobody will be able to spot every cheat every game but you should work and improve on it the same way you are working on game decisions, mulligan decision, deck tuning/building decisions.

[Sloshthedark]

Another suspect on-camera occurrence at an SCG Open, this time involving the man ranked right behind Alex Bertoncini (if I'm not mistaken) in total SCG Open points, Edgar Flores:

http://blip.tv/scglive/scgkc-leg-rd3-edgar-flores-vs-jordan-zona-5701810

Edgar is on the play and didn't mulligan. Once he begins his second turn (after having played a land on turn one), you can clearly see seven cards in his grip when he fans them out before drawing for the turn, seven again once he plays another land, and six after playing Stoneforge Mystic.


nice one, honest mistakes start to accumulate =)

[nedleeds]

As bad as this is, it's nothing compared to the late 90's. There was drawing extra cards, tapping mana incorrectly and the absolute *worst* which was marked cards. Like filling in little dots on the red jewel on the back of all your Nev's Disks so you'd know to Necro up to that card. Or licking your dark rituals to get them to stick to your hypnotic specters (I'm *not* *even* *kidding*).

I've met this dude briefly and I'm sure he was high, perhaps he's hitting these marathon tourneys just ripe on scrips or stoned and honestly is in a cloud the whole day. His best excuse would have been to claim drug addiction, possibly garner some sympathy, explain his behavior away, and then say he's quitting magic to go 'get clean'.

[luckme10]

Another suspect on-camera occurrence at an SCG Open, this time involving the man ranked right behind Alex Bertoncini (if I'm not mistaken) in total SCG Open points, Edgar Flores:

http://blip.tv/scglive/scgkc-leg-rd3-edgar-flores-vs-jordan-zona-5701810

Edgar is on the play and didn't mulligan. Once he begins his second turn (after having played a land on turn one), you can clearly see seven cards in his grip when he fans them out before drawing for the turn, seven again once he plays another land, and six after playing Stoneforge Mystic.

Wasn't Edgar kicked out of Yugioh for cheating? This seems like old news.

Anyways, if the player community put this much effort into say David Williams getting his $20,000 vintage deck stolen at the last tournament, to the point of publicizing articles on SCG and Channelfireball, we'd all have much greater security by now.

[clavio]

Well it looks like he got banned until June 2013.

[snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ]

hmmm interesting

source?

[clavio]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/suspended&tablesort=2

[Beatusnox]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dci/suspended&tablesort=2

Now its all on Starcity to see what their official report is.

[Tao]

Success! Still a shame that he gets a 20k compensation.

Now it is time to get Mr. "I shamelessly start with 8 cards" Edgar Flores. I hope the community will not relax and pressure him too. Starting with 8 is a much less excusable way to cheat that just cant be a mistake and the Video proof is 100% without HD this time.

[clavio]

I gotta say, this whole situation has greatly diminished my desire to play Magic...

[Fossil4182]

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/standard/23275_Statement_Regarding_the_Suspension_of_Alex_Bertoncini.html

"The DCI Announced today that they have suspended Alex Bertoncini for a period of 18 months. As is Star City Games' policy, Alex is ineligible to attend any StarCityGames.com tournament for the duration of his suspension. He additionally loses his StarCityGames.com Player's Club level and any benefits he would have otherwise received prior to his suspension. The prizes Alex previously received while eligible to participate in DCI-sanctioned events have already been issued, and will not be revoked.

We appreciate and respect the DCI's commitment to ensuring tournament integrity across all levels of play, as well as their devotion to players' right to a thorough and impartial evaluation of their infractions."

[Mr Miagi]

18 months? Lol, what a joke..

[conboy31]

I might be in the minority, but I think lifetime bans should mostly be used for physical violence and theft. Assuming the video evidence of Alex was true, which it appeared to be, 18 months seems appropriate. He still has the stigma should he return to organized play.

[nyoro]

g to the g. the guy took down his fb page cuz he's probably so depressed right now.

justice is served, karma is real.

[Koby]

I might be in the minority, but I think lifetime bans should mostly be used for physical violence and theft. Assuming the video evidence of Alex was true, which it appeared to be, 18 months seems appropriate. He still has the stigma should he return to organized play.

I agree with the sentiment. 18 months is a long time when one's been playing Magic for close to 1/3rd of one's life. Saito also received an 18 month ban, as well as both Guillermos.

[honestabe]

I agree with the sentiment. 18 months is a long time when one's been playing Magic for close to 1/3rd of one's life. Saito also received an 18 month ban, as well as both Guillermos.

Matigion got 3 years, unless it was downgraded after.

I also agree that 18 months is fair, if not a little harsh. 12 seems appropriate to me

[Rune]

I gotta say, this whole situation has greatly diminished my desire to play Magic...

Yeah, this incident has definitely changed my perception of live Magic for the worse.

So sad he gets away with all the money. At least I hope he will always be known as "Alex, the greatest explorer".

[Ben]

I guess either way the cheatyface wins since all the cash goes home with him.

Since he is quitting anyway and penalties on him regarding game participation are not exactly affecting him in any way.

[Augustas]

One down, one more to go. You're next, Edgar ;]