Dec. 20th B&R Announcement: No Changes

[KevinTrudeau]

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/174a

Hallelujah, Brainstorm is safe again. Thank you, lord.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38V8jnN1Kpw

[Lemnear]

Fantastic! Whinning aggro fraction got a ban themselves instead! So Zoo doesn't dominate 2 Formats as people call for but got it's dominance chopped. Seriously, wise bannings....

[(nameless one)]

Still no Land Tax

[Fossil4182]

We'll there were changes, just not to Legacy. Of interest and related to Legacy is the second portion of the article which the R&D justification for banning Wild Nacatl. Specifically

"Modern has cards that are banned that would likely not be printed now that development is aware of the format. When Glimmerpost was put in Scars of Mirrodin, R&D was aware it would be powerful with Cloudpost. Developers were thinking the combination was safe for Legacy, unaware that soon there would be a Modern format where this could be too powerful." There are also some mentions of Legacy in the R&D justification section.

This is really important since it contradicts previous statements from WotC which indicated that set design does not include an awareness of eternal formats. While I doubt it such design thoughts include testing, its somewhat heartening to hear that they are at least considering the implications of cards on eternal formats.

*My caveat to this is that Modern may get more attention and protection than Legacy or Vintage since its the "chosen" format of WotC.

[makochman]

No bans in Legacy is pretty awesome. After the storm of bannings in Modern including Ponder and Preordain I almost expected Brainstorm to get the axe, and I'm glad it didn't happen. No unbans in Modern is less awesome.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Damn straight. Now shove off, banmongers! :)

[MiniLuv]

Fantastic! Whinning aggro fraction got a ban themselves instead! So Zoo doesn't dominate 2 Formats as people call for but got it's dominance chopped. Seriously, wise bannings....

Which 2 formats has Zoo been dominating again? I only counted one=/

[boneclub24]

Still running with the same-old same-old then.

Sad about no Earthcraft return, though.

[SpeakingofJager]

I believe Lemnear wasn't stating that Zoo currently dominates two formats. I think his statement is more towards: Banning brainstorm would of resulted in two formats being dominated by Zoo. And then subsequent cheering that Zoo got nerfed instead.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Zilla]

I'd have liked to see Survival come off and Vengevine added, and possibly Land Tax, Black Vice, Mind Twist come off, but no changes is almost just as good.

[Lemnear]

I believe Lemnear wasn't stating that Zoo currently dominates two formats. I think his statement is more towards: Banning brainstorm would of resulted in two formats being dominated by Zoo. And then subsequent cheering that Zoo got nerfed instead.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Zoo puts significant numbers in Legacy and even more in Modern. I do think that a Brainstorm ban and the resulting weakening of Not only control but combo (TES and Reanimator without Brainstorm?!) would favor Zoo's upcoming numbers. That's where I come from; you are right.

"Cheering" is a bit much but I'm well aware that my comment is kinda trolling; it was intended to be like this ^^. My testing online and my gathered results of modern is indeed that "Legacy Zoo without Duals and Chain Lightning" is unhealthy for moderns development so I'm glad that they did something against this "Turn 4" deck and strip the aggro archetype from Captain obvious.

The thing that confuses me is that, 1) half of the article is about Legacy/Vintage even if there are (sadly) no changes and 2) He points to future sets regarding Nacatl ban. Shall we expect Dual/tri-lands with basic landtypes soon?

[ThomasDowd]

I'd have liked to see Survival come off and Vengevine added, and possibly Land Tax, Black Vice, Mind Twist come off, but no changes is almost just as good.


vice, twist i could possibly see but survival,and land tax coming off will probably never happen.

as the powerful tutoring of survival aligns with their goals of powerful tutors (as much as i want Mystical tutor unbanned) being banned.

vice enables stasis pretty well, but will probably come off the list later rather than sooner.

mind twist i can see as the amount of acceleration to use it in a broken manner is hard to attain with positive parity. but this puts it within the realm of reality, but it is a discard spell that is great late as well as early.


land tax if used correctly is very, very powerful. the shuffle plus drawing three. and negating being on the draw, if abused properly is very good.

like imagine if you lose the die roll playing a land tax deck. mulliganing to land tax is a very real option since it draws you out of your mulligan, assures you hit your land drops and effectively draws you three for the rest of the game(every turn!) and the only requirement is you play basics, which in my opinion is very easy to do in a two color shell. and at this point if you are playing good filter/ draw effects the shuffle becomes relevant.

but regardless good luck on your crusade for land tax. mind twist and black vice i may be able to see but survival and land tax not so much.

[Koby]

Perhaps a reprint of either Fetchlands from Onslaught, or the duals from Ravnica; or a bolstering of 2/3-color strategies based on existing mana-base conditions that makes playing base-Green mid-range highly profitable.

Maybe a 1-drop Kitty lord. Who knows?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

There's really no reason not to have more dual lands. It would save a lot of room for other abilities on multicolor lands to just give them the appropriate land types.

[ThomasDowd]

in a fit of pure craziness i would like to see survival and mystical unbanned at the same time. and just see what happens. let the format go crazy for a few months. naturally this may push out the aggro decks so its probably a bad idea. but it would be interesting to see. since " supposedly" the M tutor decks beat the survival decks, but that still leaves a two pillar metagame which is bad for everyone in terms of health.

this may or may not me being bitter behind the reasoning for banning of m tutor

[Koby]

in a fit of pure craziness i would like to see survival and mystical unbanned at the same time. and just see what happens. let the format go crazy for a few months. naturally this may push out the aggro decks so its probably a bad idea. but it would be interesting to see. since " supposedly" the M tutor decks beat the survival decks, but that still leaves a two pillar metagame which is bad for everyone in terms of health.

this may or may not me being bitter behind the reasoning for banning of m tutor

The third pillar being Monoblack Stax w/ Leyline of the Void.

[dahcmai]

Damnit, Land Tax, you are so broken, stop being broken so I can play with you again!

[Amon Amarth]

All's well that ends well. I wish they experiment with Legacy like they do with Vintage but that's most likely a pipe dream. And Modern is turning into something else entirely.

[kusumoto]

Still running with the same-old same-old then.

Sad about no Earthcraft return, though.

These guys need to give us our Earthcraft. Oh well, on to waiting for the next B/R announcement.

[GGoober]

Hallelujah, LEGACY is safe again. Thank you, lord.



Fixed that for you! WotC is gaining my respect. The current meta although still being blue-skewed heavy is a very diverse and healthy one, in terms of archetypes and decks being present. And no, blue does not count as an archetype nor a deck-type, it's a fucking color, but we all acknowledge that blue is being over-represented, but this won't last long considering that there has been some success in the US with Maverick, and who knows later the random BW and Goblin decks coming back again to take a pie of the blue metagame that is all so delicious.

You think Snapcaster is card-advantage? Wait till Goblin Ringleader slow-roll y'all! :P

[Pastorofmuppets]

Fixed that for you! WotC is gaining my respect. The current meta although still being blue-skewed heavy is a very diverse and healthy one, in terms of archetypes and decks being present. And no, blue does not count as an archetype nor a deck-type, it's a fucking color, but we all acknowledge that blue is being over-represented, but this won't last long considering that there has been some success in the US with Maverick, and who knows later the random BW and Goblin decks coming back again to take a pie of the blue metagame that is all so delicious.

You think Snapcaster is card-advantage? Wait till Goblin Ringleader slow-roll y'all! :P
This, pretty much.
It seems like there's always a few months between people bitching about Blue and Gobs putting up good numbers again. You'd think people would have learned by now.
Also, I just played Nightmare Effect with 2 MD Bojuka Bogs (something I haven't done since Vengevine was everywhere) on MWS. Maindeck grave hate doesn't really help against tempo. However, buttloads of removal seems to help. Vampire Nighthawk in particular is turning out to be a must-counter, but it is MWS.

[Zilla]

in a fit of pure craziness i would like to see survival and mystical unbanned at the same time. and just see what happens. let the format go crazy for a few months. naturally this may push out the aggro decks so its probably a bad idea. but it would be interesting to see. since " supposedly" the M tutor decks beat the survival decks, but that still leaves a two pillar metagame which is bad for everyone in terms of health.
I don't get it. Before Vengevine, Survival wasn't dominating anything. And with Mystical, combo was stronger but not dominant. If they were unbanned they'd allow for a lot more playable decks, but they almost certainly wouldn't make up a two pillar metagame.

[Gui]

I thought WotC wouldn't ban Brainstorm, and that went as expected, so I'm not unhappy with the status quo. But I wouldn't mind if Brainstorm ended up banned, it would complicate the build of several cookie-cutter decks (that start with blue land of choice, blue fetch of choice, FoW, Daze, Brainstorm), which wouldn't necessarily vanish, but lose in power, and I think more decks would end up viable with the mutual loss of power from every Brainstorm deck.

But I do believe WotC does a good job on Legacy Banned list.

[Zilla]

But I wouldn't mind if Brainstorm ended up banned, it would complicate the build of several cookie-cutter decks (that start with blue land of choice, blue fetch of choice, FoW, Daze, Brainstorm)
I'm pretty sure said cookie cutter lists would simply start with blue land of choice, blue fetch of choice, FoW, Daze, Ponder instead, excepting certain fringe combo cases.

I can accept the notion that you think blue needs to be toned down, but I disagree with the idea that it would foster any kind of increased creativity in deck building.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Nice to see "no changes" for Legacy.


All's well that ends well. I wish they experiment with Legacy like they do with Vintage but that's most likely a pipe dream. And Modern is turning into something else entirely.

Actually, I'd rather say they're finally managing to make the format into what it was supposed to be, close to what I outline here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/modern/22581_Eternal_Europe_Fair_New_World.html I even called the Nacatl ban^^ *pats his own shoulder*

Excellent bans for that goal, imo, now we just need to see if people actually want to play a format without all the obvious tier 1 strategies.

[DrHealex]

maaaaaannn... modern season needs to arrive sooner so I can finally get rid of all this modern junk at over-inflated prices -_- (before they ban all the good cards)

Glad they expressed confidence in Legacy's ability to deal with itself.... finally. I would have liked to at LEAST seen mind twist off the list since I dont think it is good enough anymore anyways. But of course, they seem to unban 2 cards when they ban one... so they must be saving that one for a rainy day :-P

[Gui]

I'm pretty sure said cookie cutter lists would simply start with blue land of choice, blue fetch of choice, FoW, Daze, Ponder instead, excepting certain fringe combo cases.

I can accept the notion that you think blue needs to be toned down, but I disagree with the idea that it would foster any kind of increased creativity in deck building.

Indeed they would start with these.

But I still think the decks would be weaker, and some other decks would be slightly more viable due to that. It'd be a minor change that I wouldn't mind if happened, specially because people saying they would quit magic due to the lack of brainstorm would, instead, just add preordain/ponder to their lists. And someone would write an article on how Ponder was the best card of the format sooner or later. :tongue: