[SCD] Darkblast in the current meta

[Grollub]

http://magiccards.info/scans/en/rav/82.jpg

I've over the last few days been considering Darkblast in the current metagame, and since I sadly haven't had the time to test it extensively I'd would like to hear other players thoughts on wether or not this little versatile "soft" removal spell is worth spending some time testing.

Deck and archetype this can be used in
Anything with black mana, seems stronger in controlish decks.

This card not only functions as a recurring creature kill card, which works as a single card 'combo' compared to Shriekmaw/Volrath's, the dredge part of the card can also be (ab)used in multiple ways.

Metagame change
In the current metagame, creatures with toughness<=2 are playing a larger and larger part: Stoneforge, Delver, Snapcaster, Lavamancer, Hierachs and Dark Confidants (to some degree) - all of which are easily killed by Darkblast.


If we look at some of the recent (which often win through creature based damage) archetypes:

UR Delver: Everything.
Maverick: Everything but, KotR, Ooze and Goyf.
RUG Tempo: Everything but Tarmogoyf.
Merfolk: Everything prior to double lord.
Reanimator: Nothing - the Random Imp, but it'd be too late.
Stoneblade (Bant): Everything but Batterskull and KotR.
Stoneblade (GW): Everything but KotR, Goyf, Batterskull and
Stoneblade (UW): Everything but Batterskull.
Loam: Dark Confidant and Lavamancer, Ooze should it not be buffed. (note: recent lists use Chalice which would Deny Darkblast).
Zoo: Guide, Lavamancer, Pridemage, and Nacatl/Kird Ape/Loam Lion should they not have the lands for buffs.
(note: wont be particular strong, but could very likely buy a turn - which is strong against a deck like zoo).

All this is disregarding the favorable creature trades you can do with Darkblast - for instance dominating mirror matches.

Something to note, is all the creatures on the list Darkblast does not kill dies to Doomblade and for a large part Shriekmaw and Go for the Throat too.


Yay or nay?

[NesretepNoj]

I play it as a two-of in my UBr Wizard-deck (Confidant, Snapcaster, Delver + good stuff) sideboard. So far it has been awesome. Besides most of the decks you mention, I board it in against everything with Dark Confidant.

As an added bonus, the dredge-ability sometimes synergise with Snapcaster Mage's flashback.

I currently don't play Sensei's Divining Top, but it is really great in decks that does.

[Skeggi]

You say it kills creatures with toughness <=2, but you have you have to go 2 for 1 in order to do this, and in that case, you have to ask yourself if it's worth it. Aren't there better options of killing creatures? Snapcaster + Plow owns Darkblast in terms of efficiency, while Snapcaster is supposed to be the prey. And face it, when Snapcaster has done his flashback trick, the caster of said Snappie really couldn't give a flying rat's behind if you darkblast it.

Ofcourse Darkblast is good against Dark Confidant, but so are Plows, especially in a deck with Snapcasters.

TL;DR: Nay.

[tsabo_tavoc]

For the 1cc creature removal slot, Darkblast competes with Ghastly Demise. Although Darkblast kills Dark Confidant, it is generally less useful. Dredge brings Darkblast another edge over Demise, but it is worth mentioning Darkblast Dredge does not generate card advantage. It even is -1 card when killing a toughness 2 creature. Therefore, few decks play more than 1 copy, and even fewer have more than 2.

[Gui]

Darkblast is a decent removal, but keep in mind you have to use 2 cards in order to accomplish killing creatures with toughness 2 (as in 2-for-1), and you will need a specific move that will often make it a "virtual sorcery speed" removal for these. So, I think it's way more relevant for its ability of killing x/1's than for killing x/2's.

So, I believe it's quite the useful card if you intend on killing
Goblin Lackey;
Noble Hierarch and Birds of Paradise;
Most mana-generating elves in the game;
Cursecatcher;
Mother of Runes;
un-flipped Delver of Secrets;
Grim Lavamancer;
Dark Confidant...
...and want to have the possibility of killing a random toughness 2 creature. If you want a removal for the x/2's, you'd be probably better of using something else.

[Skeggi]

For the 1cc creature removal slot, Darkblast competes with Ghastly Demise.
I thought Swords to Plowshares. Oh you meant black 1cc? In that case Innocent Blood too.

[Gheizen64]

I'm currently playing 2 of them (you never want to see 2 of them in a game) in this pox-derived list:

4 Bloodghast
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Ritual
2 Darkblast
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
1 Spinning Darkness
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Dakmor Salvage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
8 Swamp
4 Mishra's Factory

Delver + Snapcaster being everywhere alongside Lavamancer make this so good. Dredging mean also that you'll hit a salvage or a Bloodghast along the way.

[Skeggi]

Why on earth isn't that Pox list running 4 Innocent Blood?

Also, I would never run Darkblast in Pox, since I would run Pox with Nether Spirit instead of Bloodghast, because Nether Spirit can block and Pox is a control deck, not a tempo one. In that case, you don't want to Dredge because of Nether Spirit.

[tsabo_tavoc]

I thought Swords to Plowshares. Oh you meant black 1cc? In that case Innocent Blood too.

I meant black removal. If one splashes white or red, there is almost no reason to have Ghastly Demise, let alone Darkblast.

Innocent Blood was not mentioned as being a Sorcery, and so was Deathmark.

[Skeggi]

Innocent Blood was not mentioned as being a Sorcery, and so was Deathmark.
Really? How valuable is instant-speed over the ability to kill any creature on the table, even Progenitus or Emrakul?

[Grollub]

Wow, very nice feedback! Was a little afraid I'd get shot down for considering it viable. ;-)

All very good points against it, but something I think is missing in the critique deeming it 'nay' is the reusability it grants - once you have it, you have it until the game ends or your opponent somehow remove it from the game. In short form, Ghastly Demise certainly looks stronger (and thanks very much for reminding me of this card).

The 2-1 aspect against 2 toughness creatures is a very good point, but again - killing a Stoneforge for instance can often times very much be worth the trade off. While it's true Darkblast does not on it's own generate direct card advantage, it offers not only card selection in more forms: trade off a random draw for a sure -1/-1 spell, mill away brainstorm/top cards - and finally if the deck is designed to use the graveyard (Snapcaster et all), it acts like a pseudo-cantrip as well.

I don't think it's fair to compare it to Swords to Plowshares, since well - Swords is the best removal spell ever. :-P
- an issue I have with Innocent Blood is it's a sorcery, Edict effects unless they are instant always fails for me, but I suppose it's just a biased opinion due to my own limited experiences with sorcery edicts.

Hrm. You guys feedback has made me even more torn, guess I'll have to play test it (maybe some sort of controlish-dredgeish BUG list?) to get a better feeling about it.

To the guys who have/are played it in the current meta:
How often is it good compared to mediocre/dead?

[Skeggi]

I don't think it's fair to compare it to Swords to Plowshares, since well - Swords is the best removal spell ever. :-P

I suppose it's also not fair to compare Dash Hopes with Force of Will?

Upside of Darkblast compared to Swords to Plowshares: you don't have to splash white and you can recur it by itself. Downside: it's very narrow.

I think it compares just fine.

@tsabo_tavoc: what about Dismember. Looks like a colorless 1 mana removal spell to me ;)

[GGoober]

I play 1 Darkblast in my SB in Dreadstalker. In the deck, it's pretty amazing since it helps feed Tombstalker while being the best removal spell against decks like GW, Goblins, Bob, Faeries aka random matchups once in awhile.

I don't think any deck should MD or play more than 2 Darkblast in the SB because Legacy still fundamentally play good creatures outside of Bob/Snapcasters.

The only problem I had with Darkblast against matchups it is good in is sometimes you will be tempted to continually Dredge it to keep creatures off the board. This is alright since you are still 1-1'ing your opponent but just like the drawbacks of EE-recursion, you are not seeing new cards. When your opponent ever gets a spell that nets them 1 more card, you will be very behind. Dredging Darkblast mindlessly is as bad as recurring EE mindlessly when you are not gaining board position/advantage. That's the only 'drawback' I have of Darkblast but it's mostly due to not using the card correctly in the right time. You don't have to kill everything XD

If there's anything that is most insane in the meta it is Lavamancer and Cursed Scroll. I was playing a Delver list and I lost to burn with Cursed Scroll. I could deal with his 1 million burns but I can't stop a Cursed Scroll outside of Needle/Stifle/Grudge. Cursed Scroll via Trinket Mage should be an explored strategy with Mage fetching EE (hot against Maverick) or Dreadnought/Top/Needle.

[Gui]

I think it's fair to compare StP to any removal, since you need good reasons for running any removal instead of StP. I believe the reason in question is either color costraints, or you aready uses 4 StP and 4 Path to Exile, or else there's not much reason in not using StP.
But, even in black, there are 1cc spells that can get tougher jobs done, instead of Darkblast, as for Dismember, Vendetta or Ghastly Demise.
The first has the obvious drawback of spending life in the same situation where Darkblast wouldn't, like killing a T1 Goblin Lackey or BoP.
The second can get Darkblast's job done for a small amount of life, and still be useful lategame against a few creatures, but won't kill Dark Confidant.
The last can't kill T1 creatures, and won't kill bob either, but will have a great power during the game.

Last, Darkblast can help due to it's recursivess, but for the cost of being narrower than the options, so I think I'd keep that to Sideboard.

[Skeggi]

Last, Darkblast can help due to it's recursivess, but for the cost of being narrower than the options, so I think I'd keep that to Sideboard.

I agree, that's what Darkblast is in my opinion: a perfectly legit sideboard card.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

I run a singleton in my sideboard, and I'm very happy with it. I typically end up fetching it out with Intuition. The best way to use its Dredge ability, IMO, is to keep it in reserve: you just let it hang out 'til you need it to break a stalemate, and force your opponent to play around it for no good reason. Obviously, that works better from a position of (board) power.

I also typically use it as part of an attack on mana resources, if the cards I've drawn allow for that. It's pretty devastating to a number of decks on that front.

[Mr. Safety]

I like Darkblast with Life from the Loam. Both are slow-roll dredgers that provide incremental advantage over the course of a game. I would still question this choice over Ghastly Demise or even Dismember. Sideboard against certain matchups, maybe...but I think there are still better options in black which have already been mentioned (Innocent Blood, Deathmark)

Does anyone even consider Snuff Out or Vendetta anymore?

[GGoober]

I like Darkblast with Life from the Loam. Both are slow-roll dredgers that provide incremental advantage over the course of a game. I would still question this choice over Ghastly Demise or even Dismember. Sideboard against certain matchups, maybe...but I think there are still better options in black which have already been mentioned (Innocent Blood, Deathmark)

Does anyone even consider Snuff Out or Vendetta anymore?

Snuff Out is underplayed. The only card relevant that it does not kill are Bob and Tombstalkers. In fact, Dismember is slightly overrated currently IMO because with all the huge amounts of KotR/GW running around, Dismember is not as reliable nor mana-efficient than Snuff Out. Snuff Out does have the huge drawback of taking 4 in the face, which is a little bad against aggressive decks such as Delver.dec/Zoo. But it costs zero mana. I was and still am a fan of Snuff Out as long as there isn't too many Zoo/Sligh running around :P

[GtF]

Chiming in on darkblast, I have been running 1 of in the sideboard of my TA build for a while now and it is AMAZING. It is not good vs everything, hence why it's in the board, but in the matchups where it's good it is very good. Mainly anything with dark confidant, tons of mana dorks, or elves (boy is it rediculous there).
I also agree snuff out is undervalued right now. I've replaced them in my TA build with dismember but that was based on an old metagame. If you aren't expecting a lot of dark confidants and tombstalkers, and you are expecting a lot of knights, dreadnaughts, or other random stuff that might not die from -5/-5, I could see running snuff out, or a split of the two.

[KobeBryan]

Do you find that only having 1 darkblast is not enough in the sideboard?

the opposing player will usually have 1/1 dorks by the dozens, what are your chances of drawing darkblast.

[Purgatory]

I have tested it in Team America, as a 2-of in the side, and it is _sick_ against Bant, NO, Maverick etc. that relies on one-mana creatures to build tempo. Being able to consistently kill off all of his Hierarchs, BoPs etc. greatly increases the chance that the mana-screwing tempo plan with Stile/Waste works a lot better, and in general, I think most pilots of such decks will tell you that once you start messing with their Hierarchs, they will be on a slippery slope. It complements other types of removal that nabs KotR and friends (mainly Smother/GftT and Submerge) in my sideboarding strategies, and the fact that it is reusable makes it golden.

I don't see it as a maindeck card for Team America, I prefer my MD removal to be even more flexible, on par with Go for the Throat or Dismember at least, but it is definitely strong as a sideboard card, and if I expected to see a lot of manadorks at a tournament, I don't think I'd leave home without at least two in my 15. The match-up is actually that tricky, and killing their manadorks is one step towards taking it down, the fact that it takes other 1-toughness utility creatures like Bob or Mom is a huge plus, but it is in actuality mostly secondary to the hating on the manadorks.

[KobeBryan]

Out of your sideboard...what would you take out?

2 duress
2 pernicious deed
2 krosan grip
2 faerie macrebe
3 extirpate
1 jitte
2 chains of Mephistopheles

[GtF]

I've considered going to two but I like to have a diversified removal package, so for instance I usually run some ghastly demises as well which can function similarly in some of the matchups. Also I run 4 brainstorm 4 ponder so finding it is not that unusual.

You really have to post a whole deck to evaluate what would be good to cut from the sideboard. Off the top of my head though I don't understand why you are running chains in a deck with brainstorm, if you're talking about TA.

[Purgatory]

Here's my TA list featuring Dark Blast. I made 5th in a GPT for Amsterdam with it, but that's about it. I'm not entirely happy with the MB, but for completeness sake I'll post my exact list from that tournament.

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Tombstalker

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Ghastly Demise
2 Dismember
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

SB:
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Darkblast
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
1 Tormod's Crypt


I ran into Elves in the swiss, which was the only match where I boarded in Darkblast (also faced MUD, RUG and UW Blade) but in that match up, it was obviously bonkers. I even won game 1 against Elves, out of nowhere, and post-board it was a complete massacre.

[KobeBryan]

I've considered going to two but I like to have a diversified removal package, so for instance I usually run some ghastly demises as well which can function similarly in some of the matchups. Also I run 4 brainstorm 4 ponder so finding it is not that unusual.

You really have to post a whole deck to evaluate what would be good to cut from the sideboard. Off the top of my head though I don't understand why you are running chains in a deck with brainstorm, if you're talking about TA.

oh sorry..i was talking about the rock

[Gui]

Does anyone even consider Snuff Out or Vendetta anymore?

Snuff Out is underplayed. The only card relevant that it does not kill are Bob and Tombstalkers. In fact, Dismember is slightly overrated currently IMO because with all the huge amounts of KotR/GW running around, Dismember is not as reliable nor mana-efficient than Snuff Out. Snuff Out does have the huge drawback of taking 4 in the face, which is a little bad against aggressive decks such as Delver.dec/Zoo. But it costs zero mana. I was and still am a fan of Snuff Out as long as there isn't too many Zoo/Sligh running around :P
My opinion is that vendetta is underplayed too. It's very powerful, deals with a lot of fast creatures and accelerators for usually less life than Snuff Out, and can be used in confidant.dec more reliably, as opposed to Snuff Out (IMO, the main reason why snuff is underplayed is bob).