[Casual] RG Werewolves

[supa_tim]

I don't think this can be competitive until they print some more utility werewolves and perhaps some more consistent beaters. Even then, relying on not casting spells to get the most out of your creatures seems flawed to begin with and probably wont make the grade at a solid Legacy tournament.

Nevertheless, after a few games this seems like a fun mechanic to tinker with when nothing is on the line.

4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
5 Forest
5 Mountain

4 Reckless Waif / Merciless Predator
4 Gatstaf Shepherd / Gatstaf Howler
4 Kruin Outlaw / Terror of Kruin Pass
4 Mayor of Avabruck / Howlpack Alpha
4 Village Ironsmith / Ironfang

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Incinerate
2 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
4 Full Moon's Rise
4 Aether Vial

So, the majority of the critters are 2cc, which goes well with Vial. Vial makes it so that they will transform on the next upkeep. I like the instant speed burn so I can cast it on my opponents turn to make sure I can always have transformed werewolves. But, even if I don't, Mayor makes all my guys bigger and full moon's rise really helps the first strikers.

With Mayor and Kruin Outlaw I don't see the need to play and "finishers." Since a transformed outlaw combined with some other werewolves will likely be game over.

As good as chain lightning is, I'm wondering if it would be better as something like basilisk collar. Not only does it fit the theme in a twisted sort of way, but it actually goes really well with all the first strike guys. The reason for taking chain lightning out over incinerate is the instant speed point mentioned above.

Thoughts?

(Hrm. I tried to make it easy and autocard the transformed side, but the forum doesn't like it)

[igri_is_a_bk]

Does Vial actually help here? Unless I'm misunderstanding, it doesn't matter if you Vial them in EOT because the Werewolves check if a spell was cast last turn during your upkeep. They don't have to be in play at the time the arbitrary spell was cast, right?

[Hopo]

Shouldn't you play some Moonmists? It's hard to justify not playing them here. One-sided fog with the ability to blowout almost any combat situation.

[supa_tim]

Does Vial actually help here? Unless I'm misunderstanding, it doesn't matter if you Vial them in EOT because the Werewolves check if a spell was cast last turn during your upkeep. They don't have to be in play at the time the arbitrary spell was cast, right?
The transform ability checks every upkeep, so if I vial them in without playing any spells they transform on my opponent's upkeep. Unless they play a spell during my turn. In the few games I've played, yeah it's awesome to have my guys transformed for combat on my turn, but having them transformed for blocks on my opponent's turn is just as daunting. It also makes them want to cast two+ spells during their turn, even if it isn't the optimal play, just to get my guys to transform. After a few turns of doing this they run out of spells and my guys stay transformed to my turn, which allows me to proceed with the face smashing.

@Hopo
Yeah, I should probably try to find room. Before I added vials I had a few in there, but they seemed to under perform a bit. This could be because of lack of vials, since I ended up using them just to transform my dudes and not for many combat tricks.

I'm just not sure what to take out.

[supa_tim]

So, I've looked at the werewolves in DKA and I haven't really liked what I've seen. Except immerwolf. He looks amazing.

The other guys I considered were:
Wolfbitten Captive since he is a one drop and can pump, but I think his transformed pump cost is prohibitive.

Lambholt Elder since she can draw cards, but 3 mana for a 1/2 is just too bad.

Scorned Villager for mana, but hopefully I won't really need mana accel with vials and a low-ish curve. She also just doesn't seem as good as either gatstaff shepherd or village ironsmith for combat (even if vigilance is nice).

That was about it, since I didn't really want anything over 3 mana.

Therefore, the list now looks like this:

18
4 x Taiga
4 x Wooded Foothills
2 x Arid Mesa
4 x Forest
4 x Mountain

22
4 x Reckless Waif
4 x Gatstaf Shepherd
2 x Kruin Outlaw
4 x Mayor of Avabruck
4 x Village Ironsmith
4 x Immerwolf

4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Incinerate
3 x Full Moon's Rise
4 x Aether Vial
3 x Moonmist
2 x Basilisk Collar

18 Land because there are no wastelands in my casual group and aether vial should help smooth things over. I am a bit worried about mana screw though.

Moonmists came in because they are awesome with immerwolf.

I only have 2 kruin outlaw in because I didn't want a whole bunch of 3cc guys and the deck now has 8 actual lords, which cuts down on the need for an actual finisher. And since they aren't cumulative, only one is usually needed to finish the job.

I dropped down to 3 full moon's rise because they honestly don't do as much as I'd hoped. When I drew them I usually wanted a threat. They are only good if I already have board presence, so I made sure I had at least 22 creatures, even if I had to take one of these out.

Only three moonmists for the same reason. They aren't any good if I don't have board presence. And the vials are really helpful for transforming stuff, so I don't need them for that all the time either. But they are still really awesome with immerwolf.

I like having the 8 burn spells, since it still feels like RG Beats. I'm going back and forth on incinerate VS chain lightning. Chain lightning is obviously better in general, but when I mostly want to cast spells on their turn, incinerate has a pretty good case.

I fought hard to keep the basilisk collars in, as I think it is hilarious to put a collar on a werewolf. It also it gives me great combat tricks with my 6 first strikers and converts all my smaller guys into removal. It would go better with daybreak ranger but I don't know where to find room and I think he throws off the curve.

This reminds me of playing Rage, I love it.

[lyracian]

It looks a fun casual deck. Not a fan of the art but the new immerwolf seems much needed to lock Werewolfs into killing mode. What do you think of Young Wolf? It seems a decent one drop.

Maybe try dropping one Incinerate for the Daybreak Ranger to see if the Fight! mechanic helps at all?

[264505]

Huntmaster of the Fells seems insane. So much value.

[kiblast]

since the whole point of werewolf is to flip them (I guess they are stronger when flipped) why not add Rishadan Port, Wasteland, and 4 Thorn of Amethyst miandeck to ensure opponent will not cast spells easily? Also, since Delver exists, Daybreak Ranger seems worthwhile. Huntmaster is cool too.

Rough draft:

Deck: RG Werewolves (http://deckstats.net/deck-1046157-c287641b3b16e79b5b9efbc34d6724cb-en.html) http://www.deckstats.net/mana/m/r.gif http://www.deckstats.net/mana/m/g.gif

//Lands
4 Wasteland (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wasteland)
4 Taiga (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Taiga)
4 Rishadan Port (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Rishadan+Port)
4 Wooded Foothills (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills)
1 Mountain (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain)
1 Forest (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest)
2 Windswept Heath (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Windswept+Heath)
3 Ancient Tomb (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ancient+Tomb)

//Creatures
4 Reckless Waif (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reckless+Waif)
4 Gatstaf Shepherd (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gatstaf+Shepherd)
4 Kruin Outlaw (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Kruin+Outlaw)
4 Immerwolf (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Immerwolf)
4 Mayor of Avabruck (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mayor+of+Avabruck)
3 Daybreak Ranger (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Daybreak+Ranger)
3 Huntmaster of the Fells (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Huntmaster+of+the+Fells)

//Spells
4 Æther Vial (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=%C6ther+Vial)
3 Full Moon's Rise (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Full+Moon%27s+Rise)
4 Thorn of Amethyst (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Thorn+of+Amethyst)

//Sideboard
4 Magus of the Moon (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Magus+of+the+Moon)
4 Red Elemental Blast (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Red+Elemental+Blast)
7 Squire (http://www.mtg-forum.de/db/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Squire)

http://i.hbtronix.de/chart_pie.png Display deck statistics (http://deckstats.net/deck-1046157-c287641b3b16e79b5b9efbc34d6724cb-en.html)

[Mikeleroi]

Yep, I've been thinking around werewolves... Unfortunately, DKA doesn´t add anything remarkable (well, immerwolf, but nothing more). We'll have to wait to see 3º set in Innstrad.

By the way, where is Moonmist? One of the best cards of the deck! :laugh:

[supa_tim]

@kiblast
It looks like we are building two different decks. Mine wants to be a fast tribal aggro deck with cheaper creatures supplemented by lords. Yours looks more midrange aggro-control with all that mana denial. I like your list though, it might have more competitive edge to it than mine. Would the scorned villager be better than the gatstaff shepherd in your deck? mana for port and to make up for wastelands, and since she has vigilance once flipped she can attack and make mana.

Also, I'm not sure immerwolf and huntsman go very well together, which is one reason I didn't include him. I think huntsman is great, but I'm not actually sure he fits into werewolf tribal (as strange as that sounds). Once your werewolves are flipped, you never want them to flip back. Huntsman seems to want to flip a lot. Meh, maybe I just don't like him.

@lyracian
If I were to find room for daybreak ranger I think it would change the deck a lot. She is a good finisher and good removal, but I'm only running 18 lands and I'm not guaranteed a vial every game. I feel like I'd have to add more lands, which means some things come out, and I'm currently attached to everything. This doesn't mean this won't change in the future, but right now I think the ranger will stay on the bench.

@Mikeleroi
I run moonmist in mine. It goes so well with immerwolf and helps with combat tricks.

Thanks for the input.

[Mikeleroi]

I've played a few games with the deck; some ideas:

- 4 moonmist are mandatory -> Best "combat trick" card
- Mayor of avabruck and Immerwolf -> MVPs of the deck, having one of them in starting hand is a bless :tongue: Same with vial.
- Basilisk collar and full moon's rise are available spots... They haven't worked for me. I was thinking of changing -2 BC, -3 FMR, +1 Moonmist and 4 slots...

At the beggining, thought about +4 Vines of vastwood (protection for MoAvabruck and Immerwolf); but now I'm thinking about +4 moment's peace (8 lightings, and 8 fogs... It could surprise an aggro deck. Combo is auto-loss and control is not "very unfavorable", so why not focus on aggro?)

Other idea for these slots: green decks that run red splash with lightnings have its own "thoughtcast": Bequeathal :wink: It says G: sorcery, draw 2 cards.

[lyracian]

Other idea for these slots: green decks that run red splash with lightnings have its own "thoughtcast": Bequeathal :wink: It says G: sorcery, draw 2 cards.
Except when they respond by exiling the creature, or just killing it before your spell resolves. It does not do anything unless you get it into play. I would rather play Rancor and get some Trample. It is why so few aura's get played. They are just card disadvantage most of the time.

[Mikeleroi]

Except when they respond by exiling the creature, or just killing it before your spell resolves. It does not do anything unless you get it into play.

Of course! But I'm going to enchant a creature (his/her creature) that I'll burn later. If, in response, they kill their own creatures with their own spells (for one card that costs G) it's perfect for us.

Edit: Ok, it is possible that they StP their own creature, in response to our lightning so we don´t draw 2 cards. Well in this case: "creature we want to kill + StP" for "Bequeathal + Lightning"... Anyways, good deal.

[supa_tim]

The full moon's rise (FMR) aren't great, but they are probably better than both rancor or bequeathal.

It gives trample to all of our werewolves, and a power bonus (therefore better than rancor). And I think the regenerate ability is more useful than the ability to maybe draw two cards. I mean, we REALLY want our guys to stay alive, especially if they are already transformed.

I can definitely see going down to 2 for the 4th moonmist though. FMR isn't a threat, can't be vialed in, and we already have 8 lords. Transforming is probably more aggressive. I still want a few though, because the ability to regenerate dudes has saved my butt a few times.

The collar is a bit odd, I'll admit that, but I sometimes play small casual player games (usually no more than 3 people) and having something that gains life is pretty crucial. It can definitely be something else, like more burn, more creatures (more stuff to vial in), maybe even GSZ or some other tutor. It works for me though.

[lyracian]

Of course! But I'm going to enchant a creature (his/her creature) that I'll burn later. If, in response, they kill their own creatures with their own spells (for one card that costs G) it's perfect for us.You are still spending two cards (Enchantment and Bolt) to kill one of theirs. You need both spells to work to get your two cards. I would rather use Magma Jet and just use one card to filter out the deck.


The full moon's rise (FMR) aren't great, but they are probably better than both rancor or bequeathal.I agree FMR is better, I was just meaning that Rancor (in my opinion) is better than Bequeathal.

[supa_tim]

I'm wondering if I should just move this toward a traditional tribal deck, i.e. only running tribal creatures, and very few non-tribal cards. This would mean moving away from the standardized RG aggro deck with 8 burn cards and just running something like 16 non-werewolf/wolf creatures. Frees up more space for werewolves, but removes the versatility of burn. However, this seems to be a pretty standard way of making tribal decks: really focused but limited versatility.

So, maybe something like:


4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Arid Mesa
4 Mountain
4 Forest

4 Reckless Waif
4 Young Wolf
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Gatstaf Shepherd
4 Village Ironsmith
4 Immerwolf
2 Kruin Outlaw

4 Aether Vial
4 Moonmist
4 Full Moon's Rise
2 Sylvan Library
2 Basilisk Collar

I was also thinking of running mostly green werewolves and trying green sun's zenith. While I don't have the green 1drop werewolf (krallenhorde captive or something), I could swap out ironsmith for scorned villager and kruin outlaw for lambholt elder (and obviously adjust the manabase). Any thoughts on that?

[lyracian]

I was also thinking of running mostly green werewolves and trying green sun's zenith. While I don't have the green 1drop werewolf (krallenhorde captive or something), I could swap out ironsmith for scorned villager and kruin outlaw for lambholt elder (and obviously adjust the manabase). Any thoughts on that?
Personally I think Burn gives you an edge that is not worth giving up. Targeted removal is good. Goblins run Gempalm and Merfolk have Dismember & countermagic.