UR Delverstill

[yutang]

Decklist:


//Manabase (22 Lands)
3 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Mountain

//Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Vendilion Clique

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Daze
2 Fire//Ice

//Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//Sideboard
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Flusterstorm

Decklist:


//Manabase (22 Lands)
3 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Mountain

//Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Vendilion Clique

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Daze
2 Fire//Ice

//Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

//Sideboard
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Crucible of Worlds
3 Submerge
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Flusterstorm


Context behind brewing this deck and why should you play this deck:

I have built this deck as an evolution and merger of classic Landstill lists with recent UR Delver lists.

Historically, Landstill is a slow control deck which seeks to slow down the game and win through dropping its ‘bombs’ which have ranged from Jace, the Mind Sculptor to Humility to Fact or Fiction. Unfortunately, the rise of Merfolk and shifts in the metagame have largely relegated the former premier control deck of Legacy to Tier 1.5-2 status. We can attribute the downfall of Landfall to multiple factors:

1) Abuse of the Standstill draw engine can be easily negated by many decks. This may range from Aggro decks dropping early threats, Tribal/Aggro Control decks dropping early Vials and Combo generally sculpting a perfect hand to go off under a Standstill due to the glacial win conditions in Landstill. In short, it is harder to abuse the Standstill engine.
2) SLOW win conditions. The replacement of UWx Stoneblade lists as the popular control list to go to is partially due to the speed of Stoneforge/Batterskull as a wincon.

At the other end of the spectrum, RUG Threshold lists are aggressive lists which use the power of Daze, Stifle and Wasteland to keep opponents off-balance whilst knocking them out with threats such as Tarmogoyf and Nimble Mongoose. The recent addition of Snapcaster and Delver has allowed this deck to go back to Tier 1 status. It has even allowed for the evolution of UR Delver lists which forgo the disruption plan and blend a Burn deck with Thresh to form a Counterburn list.

This deck blends the card advantage engine of a classic Landstill list with the recent speed and power from the UR Delver lists. If such a term exists, this deck is Tempo-Control like old Merfolk style decks. My card choices should reflect this strategy. This deck is a result of working out how to use Delver, Standstill and Wasteland in one deck.

Card Choices

Mainboard

4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
3Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique

Early Delver of Secrets allow T2 Standstills (allowing you to flip at will for 3 damage per turn).
Grim Lavamancers help burn opposing creatures, operate well under a Standstill.
Vendilion Clique and Snapcaster allow for flashing in at EOT before a next turn Standstill. This efficient suite of creatures allow for a fairly aggressive core.

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3Spell Snare
3Daze

Should not need to be explained. Daze allows for Turn 2 Standstills. 3 are sufficient for making your opponent play around them for the rest of the game. It also allows you to resolve first turn Delvers etc and protect them.

4 Lightning Bolt
2Fire//Ice
Removal in red. Takes out most creatures apart from Goyf and Kotr.

4 Standstill
2Jace, the Mind Sculptor
The reason to play this deck over RUG thresh – the card advantage from these cards will pull you ahead and give you gas to kill them.

Manabase of 22 lands
4 Wastelands and 4 Mishra’s are required to use Standstill. The rest is filling in the gaps with fetches, basics and Volcanic Islands.

Sideboard

3 Flusterstorm – Combo
3Red Elemental Blast – Control
2Umezawa’s Jitte – against Aggressive/Tribal decks
1Crucible of Worlds – recurring Wastes and Mishras against Control
3Submerge – necessary card against KOTR and Goyf decks

Strategy

The strategy is flexible – it may involve beating down with early Delvers whilst burning the opponent out like a UR delver list. Alternatively, it may become control where enemy creatures are removed with Bolts before landing a Standstill before ramping into a Jace 2.0 to win. These approaches are not mutually exclusive as the deck may easily switch gears from Aggro to Control and back to Aggro.

Why UR over UW?
White offers Swords to Plowshares and Stoneforge Mystic. These cards move towards a more controllish kind of deck which is not where we want to be. At that point, I would rather be playing UWx Stoneblade.

Red offers Lightning Bolt as spot removal, maindeck Grim Lavamancer for operating under Standstill, Fire//Ice as 2-for-1s and postboard REBs against blue decks.

Why play this over Tempo Thresh?
A better late-game plan due to Standstills generating CA and Jace 2.0 being in the deck. Can be played as a more ‘control’ version of Tempo Thresh.

Why play this over Landstill and other Standstill decks?
A faster win condition in a similar card advantage engine

Why play this over other aggro-control decks?
Jace 2.0, creatures which are individually efficient and good spells to back up your creatures.

Weaknesses

Like all URx variants, the weaknesses are:
1) Sword of Fire and Ice
2) Knight of the Reliquary
3) Tarmogoyf

The sideboard goes towards addressing this.

[NeoTech]

You probably want to move this to the UR Delver thread in the Establishes Decks section since this is just a variant of it.

www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?22676-Deck-U-R-Delver

[Zilla]

Not really. This deck is much more controlling than UR Delver. The lack of any more burn spells than Bolt, the lack of Goblin Guides, the inclusion of Factories and Standstills and Jaces all make this a significantly different deck with a very different playstyle. Deck deserves its own thread, imo.

[Piceli89]

Incorporating Delver into a long-term blue shell is wrong, because you want to exploit its power in a short buffer of time (that's why he fits so well in tempo shells, where he capitalizes on mana disruption + Daze).
Furthermore, you have added lands, Standstills and Jaces, tremendously lowering the instant/sorcery count to flip him. Now there's only 20 of them, which are far from being enough.

[klaus]

Incorporating Delver into a long-term blue shell is wrong, because you want to exploit its power in a short buffer of time (that's why he fits so well in tempo shells, where he capitalizes on mana disruption + Daze).
Furthermore, you have added lands, Standstills and Jaces, tremendously lowering the instant/sorcery count to flip him. Now there's only 20 of them, which are far from being enough.

+1

[Jonathan Alexander]

Actually, that deck is pretty good. If Legacy had a real metagame, I'd probably be playing this. My list was -2 Jace -2 Clique +2 Counterspell +1 Fire // Ice +1 Daze. I also had a singleton Tropical Island in the maindeck for sideboard Ancient Grudge, not sure if that's neccessary.
Most matchups are quite solid and Delver not flipping is hardly an issue. Further, it's not really a "long term blue shell", it's pretty much just how Merfolk and old Fish decks worked, albeit with better beaters.

[yutang]

OP updated.


Incorporating Delver into a long-term blue shell is wrong, because you want to exploit its power in a short buffer of time (that's why he fits so well in tempo shells, where he capitalizes on mana disruption + Daze).
Furthermore, you have added lands, Standstills and Jaces, tremendously lowering the instant/sorcery count to flip him. Now there's only 20 of them, which are far from being enough.

It is true that this deck does not completely abuse Delver to the extent of UR Delver. However, 20 instants/sorcs still allow for consistent flipping. Even if Delver flips at a later point in time, he WILL eventually flip and fly over and beat the opponent up, especially whilst you are controlling the board with bolts and landing Standstill afterwards.

Furthermore, at this point in time, Delver is the best card to fit the role of a 1 drop which allows for beats under a T2 Standstill.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Incorporating Delver into a long-term blue shell is wrong, because you want to exploit its power in a short buffer of time (that's why he fits so well in tempo shells, where he capitalizes on mana disruption + Daze).
Furthermore, you have added lands, Standstills and Jaces, tremendously lowering the instant/sorcery count to flip him. Now there's only 20 of them, which are far from being enough.

Honestly, this deck looks a hell of a lot like old UR Fish lists in Vintage (sans Null Rod, which you don't need as other decks already play on your level, not having Moxen and stuff). That deck was in the top tier of Vintage for a while and the creatures in this list are much better than what that deck had available, so I don't see why it wouldn't have potential in Legacy, too. The one problem I see with the list as is are Goyf and KotR (already mentioned in the opening post but not sufficiently addressed in the lists, imo), which are widely played, ruin your whole gameplan of beating down while drawing disruption with Standstills and are nearly impossible to answer for the deck. Something like a few Dismembers seems like a necessity (maybe instead of F/I).

As to the Delver not flipping thing, 20 Instants give you a 33% chance of a flipped Delver after one turn, 55% after two turns and 70% after three turns. Not brilliant odds for a pure beatdown strategy but reasonable for something that aims to win through grind-out attrition. Vintage Fish played 1/x and 2/x creatures exclusively and still managed to grind out its opponents over time.

/edit: For reference:

Marc Perez
Central Coast Championship, June, 2004
1st Place

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spiketail Hatchling
2 Voidmage Prodigy
1 Gorilla Shaman
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Daze
1 Stifle
4 Curiosity
4 Standstill
3 Null Rod
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Mishra’s Factory
2 Faerie Conclave
2 Island
4 Volcanic Island
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Sapphire

Sideboard:
2 Maze of Ith
1 Energy Flux
1 Null Rod
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Unsummon
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Fire/Ice
1 Stifle

From Smmenen's article here http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/17860_So_Many_Insane_Plays_Meandeck_Beats_The_Best_Deck_in_Vintage.html

[Mr. Safety]

OP updated.



It is true that this deck does not completely abuse Delver to the extent of UR Delver. However, 20 instants/sorcs still allow for consistent flipping. Even if Delver flips at a later point in time, he WILL eventually flip and fly over and beat the opponent up, especially whilst you are controlling the board with bolts and landing Standstill afterwards.

Furthermore, at this point in time, Delver is the best card to fit the role of a 1 drop which allows for beats under a T2 Standstill.

I agree completely...it isn't about how early you get Delver, it's about the mana efficiency of a 3/2 flyer for :u:. If he doesn't land a turn 1 delver, that's ok...he's just fine turn 2-5. As long as he has board advantage or the board is empty, Standstill will be powerful. With 4 Brainstorms and Jace, that's plenty of ways to cheat on your top 3 to make sure delver flips.

If Delver doesn't get him there with Bolt/Grim reach, then a protected Jace will get him there. I think it's fantastic to be able to provide a different line of attack instead of the typically linear strategy of U/R counter-burn. His deck doesn't need to win in the short run...he can win in the short run OR the long run, something the burn-heavy Delver lists can't boast. I see this as combining the early turn disruption of a tempo deck that allows for mid-game card advantage to take over. Alternatively, he can just play fast aggro plan with a turn 1-2 Delver followed by Clique/Factory/Snapcaster beats.