[Developmental] Hyper Aggro 47 creatures [Archive]

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Freggle

01-09-2012, 12:43 AM

This is a thread more to spur conversation on the possibility of a deck that aims to out threat the meta.

Why would you want to play a deck like this?

-to run through control decks.
-to (win or loose) quickly to leave time to eat between rounds.
-to develop a new approach to Legacy
-to out meat the current aggro strategies.
-to pilot a consistent deck
-dodge wasteland

The current rough draft:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Dungrove Elder
4 Sylvan Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Splinterfright
3 Boneyard Wurm
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Nest Invader
4 Ambush Viper

13 Forest

The goal is to mulligan into a hand that gives you 2 mana or a path to 2 mana.

i.e. 1 forest 1 Elvish Spirit Guide 1 Sylvan Ranger

If your opponents want to attack into you many times they will have to trigger a Veteran Explorer or waste a exile mechanic (STP/PTE) on it.

The deck can fairly consistently land a T2 or T3 Mul Daya Channelers that fairly consistently remains a 5/5 beater.

The deck also has a fair amount of gas. If the board gets wiped or your initial forces get countered you can land a Splinterfright or a Boneyard Wurm to keep the pressure on high usually top decking more threats with rich draws.

There are flaws. A Batterskull's life gain can pose issues, but could be answered by a possible set of Elvish Scrappers in the board.

I thought I would post this here to see if the community could help this fledgling idea along.

If you would like to gold-fish hands you can do so by following the link below (select Test on the top of the screen):
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/EditDeck/321206

Any thoughts / reactions?

Edit: A creature that should find a home as well is Heartwood Storyteller

Nonex

01-09-2012, 01:28 AM

Malchar

01-09-2012, 01:30 AM

Not even a mention of tarmogoyf? It single-handedly blocks and kills each of your creatures. Since you can't kill it, you should at least play it.

You could use some of the strong one-drops from the old green stompy decklists. They seems to outclass most of your creatures. That's what I assumed that you were using when I clicked this thread.

It seems like you'd have to devote at least 8 cards in the sideboard to have a chance against combo decks. It might depend on your metagame I guess.

(nameless one)

01-09-2012, 01:53 AM

I used to run a deck that featured the same principle. Though I used hyperaggressive elves instead to create that pseudo-synergy. It was awesome until my local meta shifted to more combo.

If you want a hyperaggressive deck, you need to beat control before it stabilizes (which is really fast once they get Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull going. At the same time, you want to have the reliability to withstand tempo decks.

The combo match up is a lost cause. Although boarding in Thorn of Amethyst might help.

Freggle

01-09-2012, 01:57 AM

I have experience with Veteran Explorers, Mul Daya Channelers and Heartwood Storytellers in Survival and other creature-heavy decks.

If you run Explorers, you can't beat control. Their bombs are designed to nullify yours and thus they spend their mana better than you. And some decks, believe it or not, can just wait a few turns to build an army and race you to a point where it doesn't matter if your Explorers die. If you have any reliance on Explorers triggering, you need something to sacrifice them at will; otherwise, replacing them with Birds of Paradise will be miles better.

Mul Daya Channelers and Heartwood Storyteller are really, really good.

Also, as much as I love Green Sun's Zenith and hate the idea of it being ubiquitous, I have to admit there's no reason a monogreen deck shouldn't run 4.

I didn't state it, but I'm thinking the board could have something like:

4 Summoning Trap
4 Eternal Witness
3 Progenitus

This way a triggered trap could resolve into a Progenitus OR Eternal Witness grabbing trap to re-trap into a Progenitus or E. witness... till you get one.

The Veteran Explorer are not even needed. Many hands are just fine with a forest, and Elvish Spirit Guide, and a Viridian Emissary, or a Sylvan Ranger.

The curve is light, and playing one creature a turn is fine. The Explorer is in there more to ward off attackers than to pull the two lands, but when it does it makes Dungroves a force to be reckoned with.

On Green Sun's. I LOVE the card, but it doesn't work in this build because no one creature is important. Actually that is one of the decks main strengths. Additionally, it is not a creature nor a land so it does not synergize with the following:

Mul Daya Channelers
Splinterfright
Boneyard Wurm

Not even a mention of tarmogoyf? It single-handedly blocks and kills each of your creatures. Since you can't kill it, you should at least play it.

I should have mentioned it, but I question the rest of this statement.

The only card types that can be placed in my graveyard are lands and creatures (as that is all that is in the deck) This means i'm relying on my opponent to play all the others. In the mean time I could drop a Mul Daya at a 5/5. Or late game a bonyard wurm for 8/8 +

I don't find it being able to block and kill much. Mul Daya early is usually larger than it. No one want to block a Viridian Emissary or a Veteran, a Ambush Viper will be a card for card exchange... It isn't really a problem.

I think running Heartwood Storytellers in the slot where Tarm. could have been would be better to draw off all the other card types to swarm and win.

You could use some of the strong one-drops from the old green stompy decklists. They seems to outclass most of your creatures. That's what I assumed that you were using when I clicked this thread.

It seems like you'd have to devote at least 8 cards in the sideboard to have a chance against combo decks. It might depend on your metagame I guess.

Well the early drops were chosen to be a ramp and a body. ...but I will certainly look at the old stompy threads.

As far as combo you are certainly correct on that, but all aggro decks have the same plight.

bkemke

01-09-2012, 02:39 AM

Have you thought about Hellspark Elemental? It has good synergy with Splinterfright.

trivial_matters

01-09-2012, 09:11 AM

My thoughts: If you can manage four mana, Natural Order into Progenitus is better than Summoning Trap or whatever you had going on there and is a decent backup win condition. You have more than enough creatures to sacrifice to it.

Tattermunge Maniac sucks.

Play more lands. Relying on ESG to get two mana so you can play a land-fetching dork is risky.

Grollub

01-09-2012, 09:41 AM

With such a high creature density you might want to consider trying Lead the Stampede.

GenioDeArena

01-09-2012, 02:35 PM

I will advocate for GSZ since it let play wiith MD hate like (card)Viridian Zealot(/card), (card)Wickerbrough Elder(/card), (card)Acidic Slime(/card), etc.
I agree that Heartwood is a blast in this type of deck.

Pastorofmuppets

01-09-2012, 03:08 PM

I would like three reasons other than budget why your current list is better than Zoo.
I'm not saying this deck can't happen; I'm just saying it needs some work. Have you considered Leatherback Baloth or Vengevine?
Both are incredibly aggressive.

This way a triggered trap could resolve into a Progenitus OR Eternal Witness grabbing trap to re-trap into a Progenitus or E. witness... till you get one.

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work. Summoning Trap shouldn't have fully resolved yet, meaning it's not in the graveyard when Witness hits play.

hjalte

01-09-2012, 03:39 PM

I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work. Summoning Trap shouldn't have fully resolved yet, meaning it's not in the graveyard when Witness hits play.[/QUOTE]

It will work.
Even though the triggered ability triggers before Trap goes to the graveyard, the triggers aren't put on the stack (where choices for that trigger are made) until state-based effects are checked. State-based effects are only checked after Trap finishes resolving, so by the time you have to choose a target for Witness, Trap is indeed in the graveyard.

Malchar

01-09-2012, 05:51 PM

The eternal witness play will work, although I still question whether or not it's good. If you play a threat each turn then there's no way that you lose to counterspells. You shouldn't have to rely on summoning trap or anything for that matter to beat counters. Batterskull, on the other hand, is a force to be reckoned with.

Zoo manages extremely well against combo decks because of silence, orim's chant, burn spells, and qasali pridemage to name a few. An aggro deck having to use sideboard slots just to beat counterspells is quite paradoxical.

Freggle

01-09-2012, 06:29 PM

First off thank you all for your interest on such an unfinished deck.

Have you thought about Hellspark Elemental? It has good synergy with Splinterfright.

I have not. I do not find the Unearth mechanic to be too attractive given it is sorcery speed, and with this card requires a red splash. One thing I like about this very rough draft is the mono-green all basics stability.

My thoughts: If you can manage four mana, Natural Order into Progenitus is better than Summoning Trap or whatever you had going on there and is a decent backup win condition. You have more than enough creatures to sacrifice to it.

I agree. It will certainly give the deck more explosiveness, but with Mul Daya Channelers telegraphing a possible Natural order & loosing both it's 5/5 status and mana making abilities it just shy of a no brainer.

It also has the potential to un-richen draws when you top deck a Progenitus

Tattermunge Maniac sucks.

I'll admit it is not awesome, but it is aggressively costed, and works as a 1 drop. What would you propose as an alternaitve? ...Skyshroud Elite

Play more lands. Relying on ESG to get two mana so you can play a land-fetching dork is risky.

To me it's high risk / high reward. Early game it may be your way into an opener, and mid to late game I tend to play them as a beater. They also keep Mul Daya's at 5/5 when on top. It could be that the deck may need more basics, but I wouldn't drop the ESG's The function very well in this list.

With such a high creature density you might want to consider trying Lead the Stampede.

I am highly intrigued with this card. The deck already has plenty of gas, this could put it to uber mode.

I will advocate for GSZ since it let play wiith MD hate like (card)Viridian Zealot(/card), (card)Wickerbrough Elder(/card), (card)Acidic Slime(/card), etc.
I agree that Heartwood is a blast in this type of deck.

This will just come down to play testing and choosing a route. (1) there is the toolbox approach with GSZ to pump out what you need at the time, or (2) make the deck more like Goblins and have synergies in the deck but no one creature / card is all that important.

I chose to try a theoretical ultra aggressive route with the goblins flavor after playing a list discussed deep in this thread (http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?21549-MonoG-Zenith-Abuse) for a while. Either one COULD possibly work.

I would like three reasons other than budget why your current list is better than Zoo.

There MAY be better reasons but this is just off the top of my mind.

(1) The deck functions off of (harder to disrupt) basics.
(2) The deck does not roll over to Deed / EE / ...
(3) The deck has FAR more gas then zoo as you don't really mind when things die. Many times you want it.
(4) The longer the game goes the bigger your threats get.

One deck that I keep sleeved up is my Legacy Zoo. I became highly intrigued when I took my Standard legal deck (almost identical to this rough draft) heads up against Zoo, and smoked it 4 times in a row. Splinterfright, and Boneyard are better then they appear. Splinterfreight with trample in particular.

I was also taken back as to how good Skinshifter was.

If your interested here is my standard list. It has been doing well:

20 Forest

4 Dungrove Elder
4 Splinterfright
4 Ambush Viper
3 Boneyard Wurm
4 Skinshifter
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Mulch
3 Perilous Myr
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Jade Mage
2 Kessig Cagebreakers
1 Garruk's Companion
2 Spider Spawning
1 Thrun, the Last Troll

SB
4 - Green Sun's Zenith
3 - Beast Within
3 - Melira, Sylvok Outcast
3 - Spellskite
2 - Gnaw to the Bone

I'm not saying this deck can't happen; I'm just saying it needs some work. Have you considered Leatherback Baloth or Vengevine?
Both are incredibly aggressive.

I considered Baloths (as I am very familiar with them) but chose Mul Daya in that slot given the build and the stability of it's 5/5 p/t. I overlooked Vengevine as a result of hitting 4 mana early enough to make a difference (Mul Daya's kill fast) was difficult without triggereing a Veteran Explorer. They should be scrutinized however.

The eternal witness play will work, although I still question whether or not it's good. If you play a threat each turn then there's no way that you lose to counterspells. You shouldn't have to rely on summoning trap or anything for that matter to beat counters. Batterskull, on the other hand, is a force to be reckoned with.

Zoo manages extremely well against combo decks because of silence, orim's chant, burn spells, and qasali pridemage to name a few. An aggro deck having to use sideboard slots just to beat counterspells is quite paradoxical.

I was thinking this as well. I just love the idea of it. Thorn of Amethyst seems strong though.

SpeedOfDark

01-09-2012, 06:48 PM

this idea is very interesting. I will give it some more thought and repost probably, but this new spoiler is kind of neat (dunno if its strong enough though):
http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/dka/ykcv734set_en.jpg

Malchar

01-09-2012, 06:54 PM

I've been using thorn of amethyst in my painter/grindstone deck, but I often still lose to storm decks. If you don't have an exceptionally fast clock, they can still win through a thorn, or find a way to bounce it before they die. Perhaps mindbreak trap is better.

Pastorofmuppets

01-10-2012, 08:13 AM

After taking my own list for a spin on cockatrice, I can safely say that it's pretty good, at least against control. I beat a guy under a Jace and Thopter/Sword.

boneclub24

01-10-2012, 10:55 AM

So... it's 9-Land Stompy?

ReAnimator

01-10-2012, 10:56 AM

Wouldnt' Jungle Lion or Nettle Sentinel be better than Tattermung?

snappingbowls | ಠ_ಠ

01-10-2012, 11:43 AM

So... it's 9-Land Stompy?

Well, I don't think so. There's no Land Grant or Growth spells. No Winter Orbs or nothin'. I think 9 land stompy and this probably play very similarly, but they are different in design if not completely different in how they play.

I don't know though, at this point it's temping to just change to play 9 land because it's faster for sure and can use Winter Orb to win out of nowhere sometimes. Hard to say, this build is more threat dense, though. Better range of creatures to play, way better curve. There are definitely reasons to play this.

Wouldnt' Jungle Lion or Nettle Sentinel be better than Tattermung?

Either one of those would be way better. They might have been oversights; but otherwise I can't imagine being aware of these when building and play Tattermunge instead.

Skeggi

01-10-2012, 11:55 AM

You may have problems with Punishing Fire, a card that sees more and more play. Scavenging Oozes may provide an answer.

Pastorofmuppets

01-10-2012, 01:59 PM

Either one of those would be way better. They might have been oversights; but otherwise I can't imagine being aware of these when building and play Tattermunge instead.

My list runs both.

13 Forest

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Leatherback Baloth
4 Vengevine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Boneyard Wurm
3 Splinterfright
3 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Mul Daya Channelers
3 Jungle Lion
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Ambush Viper
4 Viridian Emissary

3 Lead the Stampede

The combination of ramp dudes, Hierarchs, and ESGs make it relatively easy to hardcast Vengevine, and more one-drops and Lead make it easier to get Vengevines out of the yard.

Malchar

01-10-2012, 05:27 PM

Freggle

01-10-2012, 10:11 PM

Winter Orb is a relic from the Halcyon days when you actually needed mana to win. The aggro-control/tempo decks only need at most two land. Daze exists, and they have tons of fatal two-drops like batterskull and tarmogoyf. The orb would probably hurt you more than them. However, if you're playing against stax, pox, landstill, or monoblue control, it would work fine.

So lets table that for a possible SB card then.

It feels like viridian emissary, splinterfright, and boneyard wurm are sub-par for their mana costs and vulnerability.

Viridian Emissary I think is plenty fine for it's cost and fragility. In an aggressive deck of this nature it's much better than playing Birds of Paradise it that you may get in for a few before getting the mana. If someone wants to waste an STP / PTE or counterspell on it be my guest. That is a win for me. If not I can search for any basic (important later) that is an important mechanic. I suppose you curve the deck down an omit ramp (as your list shows) but I find that to weaken the overall end product.

Splinterfright is plenty strong for it's cost. It's trample puts it over the top IMO i'm not afraid to drop him as a 1/1 just to draw the counter or the removal. There are plenty more coming up to bat if he bites it. If they don't answer the damage he usually does is tough to recover from.

Boneyard Wurm is no more fragile and no more costly then Tarmagoyf. Early it is easy to see that Tarmogoyf is the clear head-to-head winner. Mid to late game things change quickly. This is and/or Splinterfright are excellent was to respond to a board wipe, and are one of the main reasons this deck has so much gas.

A note on Tarmagoyf: I don't understand why it is such a perceived issue. If he is landed early and he’s huge you can just chump (preferably with Veteran Explorer) until you can drop a bigger Splinterfreight, Boneyard or Dungrove Elder if for whatever reason you don’t have an Ambush Viper to get the job done. Skinshifter can even become the 0/8 plant if you feel you need it. It's not like there aren't more troops to come.
I think it's foolish to fear it because in all actuality there is absolutely nothing to fear. Late game you just trample over it or swarm it. NOW if Team America lands a Tombstalker early …well that’s another story. At that point it’s a damage race. Hopefully you got Hymned and managed to keep a Splinterfright Or you can trample on in with 4/4 rhinos and pals.

If I were to cut anything it would likely be to pare down the Dungrove Elders because it’s hard to get them really scary in this version.

You probably can't even play the wurm on turn 2. Even if the graveyard has 4 creatures, it still loses to tarmogoyf, and it seems like it will be hard to even get 4 creatures in a timely manner.
I guess the thing is the initial proposed list isn’t all in on the early win. It has the ability to close games out early, but has the tenacity to punch through grinding ones as well.
As for the 2006 list the much talked about Jungle Lion is the biggest takeaway.

You may have problems with Punishing Fire, a card that sees more and more play. Scavenging Oozes may provide an answer.
I’m into it! Helps against Dredge and Reanimator as well.

My list runs both.

13 Forest

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Leatherback Baloth
4 Vengevine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Boneyard Wurm
3 Splinterfright
3 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Mul Daya Channelers
3 Jungle Lion
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Ambush Viper
4 Viridian Emissary

3 Lead the Stampede

The combination of ramp dudes, Hierarchs, and ESGs make it relatively easy to hardcast Vengevine, and more one-drops and Lead make it easier to get Vengevines out of the yard.
I like this focus, but does it make the deck better? …I don’t know I’m certainly not saying it doesn’t. It just feels like this list makes Deed / EE / Chalice … more attractive for your opponent, and a Surgical Extraction targeting a Vengevine would hurt the deck more possibly than a surgical could hurt the initial list.
I do love the tenacity of it though, and the very aggressive nature of it.

Did you test Skinshifter at all? I know it looks lame. I refused to try them in legacy until I played heads up against Zoo. The 4/4 Rhino with trample is very good though. Trampled over Nacatyls like a pro. Tramples over Thropters to Jaces… If Moat is landed I can see it putting in the last needed points as the 2/2 bird too.
I get it. They LOOK bad, but I have found in play they really are not.

After taking my own list for a spin on cockatrice, I can safely say that it's pretty good, at least against control. I beat a guy under a Jace and Thopter/Sword.
It is my guess this win could be attributed to Splinterfrights trample yet again is this correct?

As far as the combo quandary I think Mindbreak Trap is good.
We can also SB / Main Phyrexian Revokers to name all of the artifact mana you saw game 1. Not to mention you could name Stoneforge Mystic OR Batterskull with them as well to get around that issue.

Also it is possible since Viridian Emissary & Sylvan Ranger fetch any basic (not just forests) we COULD SB 1 Plains and 3 Ethersworn Canonist to keep up the beatz and give them troubles.
Choke may also be good.

Pastorofmuppets

01-10-2012, 10:33 PM

It is my guess this win could be attributed to Splinterfrights trample yet again is this correct?

No, double Vengevine and a bunch of one-and-two drops.

Malchar

01-10-2012, 10:55 PM

To me, it's no mystery why your monogreen standard list beats zoo. Your deck plays a lot of big creatures, which is rare in legacy. The problem is that your deck automatically loses to combo, whereas zoo actually has something like a 50% chance.

As for tarmogoyf, I'm not so much worried about you getting attacked by it. But, if they just use it as a blocker, it will kill anything you send at it. If they also have a delver, lavamancer, or tombstalker, then they can win the damage race. Not to mention daze and other tempo tricks to slow you down.

The problem is that when your deck has no way to interact with the opponent except by sending creatures, you will autolose to at least a third of all decks. I think that you probably have a reasonable chance against tempo due to your high threat density, I'm just not sure if it's worth autolosing to combo.

Freggle

01-11-2012, 12:37 AM

The problem is that when your deck has no way to interact with the opponent except by sending creatures, you will autolose to at least a third of all decks. I think that you probably have a reasonable chance against tempo due to your high threat density, I'm just not sure if it's worth autolosing to combo.

Okay I get the point, but what about a list "like" this then:

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Vengevine
4 Sylvan Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Splinterfright
3 Boneyard Wurm
4 Jungle Lion
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Ambush Viper
4 Phyrexian Revoker

13 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Plains
3 Scavenging Ooze
the rest TBD ...maybe Suppression Field (and out with Noble) or True Believer

Malchar

01-11-2012, 02:37 AM

You could just do leyline without plains. If you have to wait until turn 3 or 4 to cast it, you probably lost anyway. Together with revoker you probably have a decent chance against combo. I guess I'm starting to like the list more, but I still think tarmogoyf has to be better than something else in the list.

zabuza

01-11-2012, 06:51 AM

I´m playing this list and work really fine:

// Lands
20 [UNH] Forest
1 [UNH] Swamp

// Creatures
4 [M12] Brindle Boar
4 [U] Birds of Paradise
4 [LRW] Briarhorn
4 [INN] Splinterfright
4 [INN] Boneyard Wurm
4 [INN] Kessig Cagebreakers
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 [FUT] Street Wraith
4 [ARB] Deadshot Minotaur
4 [RAV] Shambling Shell

// Spells
4 [SH] Mulch

Anyways I think it can be better so any idea is welcome.

Freggle

01-11-2012, 12:46 PM

I´m playing this list and work really fine:

// Lands
20 Forest
1 Swamp

// Creatures
4 Brindle Boar
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Briarhorn
4 Splinterfright
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Street Wraith
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Shambling Shell

// Spells
4 Mulch

Anyways I think it can be better so any idea is welcome.

I'm not a fan of Birds in here.

The self mill strategy exposes you more to yard hate, tempo counter spells & STPs/PTEs.

Bare in mind in the latest Stoneforge Mystic decks running Snapcaster Mage is is not uncommon to run into 5+ Swords to Plowshares in a given game. This strategy makes you a bit more weak to that. It sucks that this also does not fatten our yard.

Given these observations I would drop at least 2 Kessig Cagebreaker for 2 Spider Spawning. Kessig is uber broken and is a super rewarding win (I love to do it in my standard deck) but is weak to tempo plans and STP's.

Your running the swamp main anyhow so you can always flashback the Spawing if it gets countered, and is super good after a board wipe. ...and is not entirely dead when flipped by Splinterfright. It's has been da' nutz in standard, and has won many a game including giving you an out to a huge flyer (they have reach.)

Mul Daya Channelers is still really good here even at 21 land.

Phyrexian Revoker will help you with a ton of common mass yard hate.

Edit: It may be good to look at the curve to run Bob (Dark Confidant) here.

That's my 2 cents.

Now of the 3 good lists proposed is there a common list we can start narrowing this down to?

Sideboard of any of them:

4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Elvish Scrapper
3 Scavenging Ooze
...

nedleeds

01-11-2012, 02:50 PM

Caller of the Claw probably fits somewhere in your 75. A Wrath of God followed up by a Batterskull is GG.

They will likely be under enough pressure to tap out and wrath. Caller can sometimes mean untap and swing for lethal if some of the dying dudes were only 1/1's.

zabuza

01-11-2012, 03:58 PM

The thing is that the deck has more threats than swords the opponent But even you can include dungrove elder to make the party scarier for them (I have them in sdb because is a threat that is not grave dependant) but can be maindecked.

Massive removal is not good and probably i could use the spiders (is a good suggestion) but the thing that doesn´t like me is that it´s not a creature so doesn´t pump our dudes and is lot of mana intensive.

I tested Mul Daya Channelers but were not impressive at all so I removed them.

About caller of the claw, well if you are facing a control deck with mass removal probably they counter your dude so... not sure about it.

Freggle

01-11-2012, 06:49 PM

Caller of the Claw probably fits somewhere in your 75. A Wrath of God followed up by a Batterskull is GG.

It's pretty bad, but I don't think it's GG. They still have to "get in" and we can theoretically drop a creature per turn even in top-deck mode.

Obviously the life gain is a pain, but if the board state is turned so could the life totals.

The damage of that play strictly relies on what forces we settle on. A Dungrove Elder is Meh. Splinterfreight could possibly trample around it. Phyrexian Revoker can stop the skull bouncing, and many things can kill it. If Elvish Scrapper makes the cut that could handle it too.

Lastly, I'm sure they are out there, but I don't even see lists of SFM decks that run Wrath of God.

They will likely be under enough pressure to tap out and wrath. Caller can sometimes mean untap and swing for lethal if some of the dying dudes were only 1/1's.

This is cool yet (as presented) highly conditional.

The thing is that the deck has more threats than swords the opponent But even you can include dungrove elder to make the party scarier for them (I have them in sdb because is a threat that is not grave dependant) but can be maindecked.

Dungrove Elder in a mono green deck that does not destroy it's forests is quite good. I just wish he had trample, but not so much to run Rancor.

zabuza

01-11-2012, 07:37 PM

Freggle

01-11-2012, 09:52 PM

Easy, play Brawn and a way to sac it. ;P

I´m testing the list including Birthing Pod (helps saccing dudes and searching for houses) and works pse (because make the deck slower but more consistent), sometimes good and sometimes not.

If only there were more one mana green cyclers or creatures that can sacrifice another and themselves (starved rusalka is really meh).

The list I´m playing now is good but need something to interact/disrupt. Thinking on root maze(I don´t play fetches :P) but how knows??

I think this is the wrong direction to take the deck. This gives tempo a must hit card, and we'll flounder. The real strength of this style of build would be that we could do without any one or sets of cards in the deck.

I personally feel it is best to just play creatures on the board let your opponent deal with them there, and capitalize on the being in your yard as a side effect. Much like Psychatog. I don't think people look for the fastest cards to get into their yard for Tamagoyf the choose good cards that fit their needs, and capitalize on all the types.

Splinterfright, and Boneyard are in there to make closes more solid and rebounds easier .

If we were to add a second color (at this moment) I think white would give us the best disruptive beaters.

Here is a list that steals a little of Zoo's thunder, but stays true to the theme.

It also uses Suppression Field in the same function of the old 9 land stompy's used Winter Orb.

It can / will throw a wrench in many decks and CAN cut people off their greedy mana-bases. I will admit it may be a step backwards for the deck, but I've always wanted to break this card.

Anyhow a proposed G/W list:

13 Forest
2 Plains

4 Suppression Field

4 Splinterfright
3 Boneyard Wurm
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Ambush Viper
4 Sylvan Ranger
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Gaddock Teeg
3 Dungrove Elder
3 Qasali Pridemage

SB: Under Development but likely like listed above w/ Leyline & Ooze.

Honorable Mentions:

Loam Lion
Steppe Lynx
Edit:Dauntless Escort

This list attempts to indirectly interact with your opponent while sacrificing very little of the initial concept. Canonist & Teeg to mess with all sorts of whatever (Snapcaster / Wrath), and Suppression Field to slow / stop a lot of garbage.

I am aware that Qasali Pridemage and Suppression Field do not get along however Pridemage still beats, and still gives Exalted. ...and even if you do pop a Pridemage under the Field it's like K Gripping so it's not terrible.

Thoughts?

Darkenslight

01-12-2012, 04:56 AM

Has anyone seen the new White legendary on the Mothership? 2/1 NoncreatureSphere with First Strike seems strong in a G/w list.

Freggle

01-12-2012, 08:11 AM

Has anyone seen the new White legendary on the Mothership? 2/1 NoncreatureSphere with First Strike seems strong in a G/w list.

Holy #@$%^ !

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127171&stc=1&d=1326344441

Edit:There are (solvable) issues with the mana currently in the G/W list. I have found Orochi Leafcaller to be pretty good at keeping up the beatz and fixing mana for early W drops. Later it becomes a weak beatz, and mainly GY fodder though, but under all this hate it might be enough.

Pastorofmuppets

01-12-2012, 12:43 PM

Orochi Leafcaller

Stop that, it's not funny.
If you're using a 1/1 anyway, why not just use Hierarchs?

Freggle

01-12-2012, 02:21 PM

Stop that, it's not funny.
If you're using a 1/1 anyway, why not just use Hierarchs?

I'm not saying it is the right move but Leafcaller's ability does not cause it to tap. So T2 you could drop a WG beater and still get in for 1.

Exalted is good but Noble is not a 1/1 it is a 0/1, and it is my belif that the deck is best at swarming and not getting in with a fattie. So in my (albeit perhaps flawed) vison exalted would be a mostly dead mechanic.

Edit: for what it is worth if you had Leafcaller out and 10 mana you could hard cast a Progenitus

Freggle

01-12-2012, 11:17 PM

13 Forest

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Leatherback Baloth
4 Vengevine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Boneyard Wurm
3 Splinterfright
3 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Mul Daya Channelers
3 Jungle Lion
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Ambush Viper
4 Viridian Emissary

3 Lead the Stampede

// Lands
20 Forest
1 Swamp

// Creatures
4 Brindle Boar
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Briarhorn
4 Splinterfright
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Kessig Cagebreakers
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Street Wraith
4 Deadshot Minotaur
4 Shambling Shell

// Spells
4 Mulch

Taking the essence of each of your iterations I have been testing the following list with good success tonight.

13 Forest

4 Splinterfright
3 Boneyard Wurm
4 Ambush Viper
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Uktabi Drake
4 Groundbreaker
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Vengevine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wild Cantor
4 Jungle Lion

This adds some Self-Sac beaters in Uktabi Drake and Groundbreaker adding more consistency to Boneyard and Splinterfreight while upping the ultra aggro version.

the Thin White Duke

01-13-2012, 12:16 AM

Uktabi Drake looks great. One card I've been wanting to play is Gluttonous Slime. That might be some kinds of graveyard filler, no?

Freggle

01-18-2012, 09:36 AM

Another very good reason not to run Natural Order or Green Sun's Zenith packages.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127359&d=1326776672

I have found the lastly hybrid list I posted gets pwned by tempo strategies. Countering an early land fetcher / mana producer proves to be too devastating.

I have tested Summoning Trap with better success, but I would say it's not good enough alone. A shouded / hexproof fattie that can also be hard casted would be needed to push that over into a good way to deal with that MU. Vengevine is close, but with Snuff Out and Dismember running around coupled with Daze it's not quite good enough to race a goyf i've found.

I've also tried a version with more lands and Blurred Mongoose and that works well. Really well along side a Noble Hierarch or two. This list also runs Vexing Shusher as a 2/2 for CMC 2 that can't be countered. ...but he does not have shroud.

I haven't had much time for Magic as of late, but I'm not considering the idea dead. Especially seeing a meta shift coming post Cage.

Freggle

01-19-2012, 03:11 PM

FYI I mis-spoke yesterday on the Team America MU. I was making play errors.

I was being too aggressive with Uktabi Drake, and not paying it's echo cost. You have to play the deck much slower, and respect Daze whenever you have the option to. i.e. do not rush into Groundbreakers

The best opener (especially on the play) was T1 Noble Hierarch T2 Uktabi Drake getting in for 3. T3 pay for drake and it's on.

This is in lieu of a T2 Mul Daya Channeler that was consistently Dazed earlier.

This minor adjustment coupled with dropping the Veteran Explorers for Blurred Mongoose proved to be a winning combination.

4-1 in best 2 out of 3 matches.

I played this list

13 Forest

4 Splinterfright
3 Boneyard Wurm
4 Ambush Viper
4 Viridian Emissary
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Uktabi Drake
4 Groundbreaker
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Vengevine
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Blurred Mongoose
2 Wild Cantor
4 Jungle Lion

enemyofarsenic

01-20-2012, 05:00 AM

Looking nice! What's your current sideboard?

Freggle

01-21-2012, 10:06 AM

Sorry for the delayed response. My home internet is having connectivity issues with this site specifically. It is very bizzare, and annoying. If someone knows what this could be let me know. Site pings time out.

Anyhow...

Looking nice! What's your current sideboard?

Frankly very underdeveloped.

I'm thinking it will be best to shore up a number of MU's with a white splash.

Here is the rough list I have in mind right now for W splash:
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Leyline of Sanctity

If that doesn't show promise (I think it's a stretch) then here is the mono green:

Mono Green Board:
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Elvish Scrapper
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Phyrexian Metamorph

Grafdigger's Cage could take the spot of Phyrexian Metamorph which can also possibly pull the weight for Scavenging Ooze as well, but time will tell on that.

In my testing I have only been using the initial 60, and it stacks up fairly well against a lot of the field.

I feel there is still room for quite a bit of improvement with the main ATM. I think upping the land count to 14 will help the deck more than hurt it. Wild Cantors are questionable at best, and Boneyard Wurm could likely be cut to 2 without much notice.

That is where I am at right now.

Edit: On more thought Scavenging Ooze should be main decked as a 3-4 of. He helps the obvious reanimator / dredge MUs. He gives opposing Tarmogoyfs and Knight of the Reliquary issues. He slows the appearance of Tombstalker, deals with Punishing Fire...

He does all of this while potentially growing, and being an initial 2/2 for CMC 2. What is not to like?

Vacrix

01-22-2012, 02:06 AM

I used to play a deck like this. Rogue Elephant was fucking fantastic; don't overlook it if you are willing to play a list with more than 13 land.

enemyofarsenic

01-22-2012, 03:41 PM

This guy? http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127021&d=1326085263

Freggle

01-23-2012, 08:59 PM

This guy? http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127021&d=1326085263

When things settle down a bit in my professional life I will test this. I feel he can be really good, and is another way to dodge/recover a board wipe.

I will also test running Rogue Elephant along side Harvest Wurm & Splinterfright.

I think it will be too hokey, but I'll still prove it out.

wcm8

01-23-2012, 09:39 PM

Scythe Tiger is probably better than Rogue Elephant, no?