[Article] Zombie Horde in EDH

[rocketrae21]

Latest article is up featuring some Commander Fun


Zombies (http://jupitergamesonline.com/2012/1048/tales-of-the-squire-zombie-apocalypse)

[Bardo]

Moved to EDH forum.

[Bryant Cook]

Zombie Horde

100 Zombie Tokens
20 Zombie Giant Tokens
1 Maggot Carrier
1 Dregscape Zombie
1 Rotting Rats
1 Spineless Thug
1 Walking Corpse
1 Walking Dead
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Scathe Zombies
1 Severed Legion
1 Bog Raiders
1 Warpath Ghoul
1 Skulking Knight
1 Ghoulraiser
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Rotlung Reanimator
1 Death Baron
1 Zombie Master
1 Dross Crocodile
1 Rotting Fensnake
1 Waning Wurm
1 Infectious Horror
1 Cackling Fiend
1 Vengeful Dead
1 Rank and File
1 Gloomdrifter
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Undead Warchief
1 Grave Defiler
1 Zombie Mob
1 Soulless One
1 Rotting Legion
1 Mass of Ghouls
1 Zombie Goliath
1 Gluttonous Zombie
1 Nested Ghoul
1 Carrion Wurm
1 Gristle grinner
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
1 Cairn Wanderer
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Putrid Raptor
1 Anurid Murkdiver
1 Corpulent Corpse
1 Dripping Dead
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Grixis Slavedriver
1 Grave Titan
1 Tresserhorn Skyknight
1 Hideous Visage
1 Dirge of Dread
1 Intimidation
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Call to the Grave
1 Bad Moon
1 Death Pit Offering
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Coat of Arms
1 Caged Sun
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Minions’ Murmurs
1 Syhpon Mind
1 Syphon Flesh
1 Delirium Skeins
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Gibbering Decent
1 Innocent Blood
1 Small Pox
1 Barter in Blood
1 Empty the Catacombs
1 Living Death
1 Zombie Apocalypse
1 Patriarch’s Bidding
1 Twilight’s Call
1 Moan of the Unhallowed
1 Army of the Damned
1 Plague Wind
2 Unknown Cards

A few things are different about my list. I added some terrible cards to equal out the ridiculously broken cards, plus most of the bad cards have some great flavor. Walking Dead? Also, for flavor reasons my list is mono-black.

• 200 cards, I want it to be more difficult. The decks people play around here are very competitive, we need something a bit more challenging. Plus, four players is no longer an auto-win.

• All singletons, It's EDH, I don't know why this wasn't addressed when it was created.

• Drawn cards, cards returned to hand, and put to hand are cast - Minion's Murmors, Empty the Catacombs, Grave Defiler.

• If a spell or ability causes life-loss, mill cards equal to the life-loss.

• Creatures with Regeneration have a continuous Regeneration Shield on them.

• Spells with Flashback or Unearth are recast/put to play the turn after they go to the graveyard.

[Bryant Cook]

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed 3BBB

Legendary Creature - Zombie Cleric
Intimidate
Whenever a Human deals damage to you, destroy it.
Other non-Human creatures you control get +1/+1 and have undying.
Illus. Chris Rahn #70/158 5/5
(Confirmation and Discussion)
(Source: Daily MTG)

I just found a card for one of my unknown slots.

[Bryant Cook]

Zombie Horde

100 Zombie Tokens
20 Zombie Giant Tokens
1 Gravecrawler
1 Dregscape Zombie
1 Rotting Rats
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Rotlung Reanimator
1 Death Baron
1 Zombie Master
1 Unbreathing Horde
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Stitched Drake
1 Shambling Remains
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
1 Anathemancer
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Waning Wurm
1 Viscera Dragger
1 Cackling Fiend
1 Vengeful Dead
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Undead Warchief
1 Grave Defiler
1 Soulless One
1 Ashen Ghoul
1 Nim Devourer
1 Nested Ghoul
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Tattered Drake
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Relentless Skaabs
1 Dread Slaver
1 Lightning Reaver
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Grixis Slavedriver
1 Grave Titan
1 Skaab Goliath
1 Brass Herald
1 Maalfeld Twins
1 Sedris, the Traitor King
1 Tresserhorn Skyknight
1 Thraximundar
1 Sutured Ghoul
1 Terrus Wurm
1 Ghoultree
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Intimidation
1 Tombstone Stairwell
1 Endless Ranks of the Dead
1 Call to the Grave
1 Bad Moon
1 Death Pit Offering
1 Grave Betrayal
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Gibbering Decent
1 Strength of Night
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Coat of Arms
1 Door of Destinies
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Minions' Murmurs
1 Distant Melody
1 Syhpon Mind
1 Syphon Flesh
1 Barter in Blood
1 Small Pox
1 Innocent Blood
1 Delirium Skeins
1 Empty the Catacombs
1 Living Death
1 Zombie Apocalypse
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Twilight's Call
1 Reap the Seagaf
1 Moan of the Unhallowed
1 Army of the Damned
1 Plague Wind

[Bryant Cook]

Just edited the post above. It's my most current Zombie Horde list.

I've brought back the horde recently, it's by far the most fun I've had playing Magic in a long time.

[TsumiBand]

I have not yet tried this variant, but the idea of a format that doesn't necessarily require a second player to be playable is kind of entertaining. Have you found that it's easy to bring a deck that just ruins all the fun? When I first heard about this variant my first thought was, "Oh, Elesh Norn > format", and it seems like there's a thousand potential hate cards that are GG like Moat or whatever. Is the Zombie deck resilient enough to randomly beast its way through dedicated hate, or do you have to self-moderate a bit?

[Bryant Cook]

I have not yet tried this variant, but the idea of a format that doesn't necessarily require a second player to be playable is kind of entertaining. Have you found that it's easy to bring a deck that just ruins all the fun? When I first heard about this variant my first thought was, "Oh, Elesh Norn > format", and it seems like there's a thousand potential hate cards that are GG like Moat or whatever. Is the Zombie deck resilient enough to randomly beast its way through dedicated hate, or do you have to self-moderate a bit?

It has it's own banned list. Elesh norn and moat are both on it. I didn't create the format, I just enjoy it.

[Killane]

This looks really interesting. The link is broken to me and either I'm dumb, or the articles on Jupiter Games don't have a search function. Can you post a new link to the zombie horde format article?

[Bryant Cook]

This looks really interesting. The link is broken to me and either I'm dumb, or the articles on Jupiter Games don't have a search function. Can you post a new link to the zombie horde format article?

I'll try and do it tonight. I'm on my phone at work and don't really want to go search for it. The original article is by Dan Rae,
If you search his articles (he doesn't have that many), you'll find it.

[Killane]

I'll try and do it tonight. I'm on my phone at work and don't really want to go search for it. The original article is by Dan Rae,
If you search his articles (he doesn't have that many), you'll find it.

Interestingly, I did, and it's not there - went through all 5 pages.

Why is the site not searchable for articles except by author??

Edit: found it Via Google http://jupitergames.info/articles/2012/1048/tales-of-the-squire-zombie-apocalypse

[Killane]

How do you handle the Horde for fewer than 4 players? The article suggests reduced numbers for fewer players- do you simply double the numbers in the article?

I'm gonna throw one of these together. Might also be useful for Goldfishing in addition to just being fun.

[TsumiBand]

It has it's own banned list. Elesh norn and moat are both on it. I didn't create the format, I just enjoy it.

I see there's a lot of discussion about the best way to implement this, though.

I feel like the most elegant solution to a lot of the banned cards would be to implement something similar to the old "Emperor" format, or whatever the cool kids called it, where spells like Wrath of God/Mutilate/etc, basically anything that said "All/each" etc, were treated like "Area of Effect" spells, and the horde could just ignore them. It makes a lot of sweepers unplayable, but unplayable > banned IMO.

[Bryant Cook]

I see there's a lot of discussion about the best way to implement this, though.

I feel like the most elegant solution to a lot of the banned cards would be to implement something similar to the old "Emperor" format, or whatever the cool kids called it, where spells like Wrath of God/Mutilate/etc, basically anything that said "All/each" etc, were treated like "Area of Effect" spells, and the horde could just ignore them. It makes a lot of sweepers unplayable, but unplayable > banned IMO.

To be honest, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about and I've played Magic for over ten years.

[Aggro_zombies]

To be honest, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about and I've played Magic for over ten years.
Emperor was a multiplayer team format. You would have two rows of people sitting across from each other; the guy in the middle of each row was the Emperor and the guys flanking him were generals. The Emperor had special rules limiting his ability to attack until a certain number of his generals had died, and all players had a limited range on their spells. If you were the left-hand general and cast a global spell like Wrath or Humility, IIRC it would only affect yourself, the general across from you, and the people flanking you and him. The right-hand general would be unaffected.

That's what I remember of the rules, at least.

[TsumiBand]

Emperor was a multiplayer team format. You would have two rows of people sitting across from each other; the guy in the middle of each row was the Emperor and the guys flanking him were generals. The Emperor had special rules limiting his ability to attack until a certain number of his generals had died, and all players had a limited range on their spells. If you were the left-hand general and cast a global spell like Wrath or Humility, IIRC it would only affect yourself, the general across from you, and the people flanking you and him. The right-hand general would be unaffected.

That's what I remember of the rules, at least.

This. I was at break at work and hit Send and realized I should probably have edited that for clarity, but I was already clocked back in :(

The pertinent aspect of this was that something like a WoG or Crusade effect only actually affected adjacent players. So like, in a Zombie Horde situation, one could say that an Elesh Norn effect doesn't "reach" over the table to the zombie horde. It does make sweepers pretty bad, but it seems like a ton of weird stuff like Urabrask the Hidden is needlessly banned, and sort of gives EDH an additional wonky banned list on top of their current "unofficial but still wonky" banned list. I mean like, who's going to change their deck just to play Zombie Horde :(

All in all though it's cool, it is something of a fledgling experiment, it's not like I expected a group of BDFLs like they have over at mtgcommander.net. I'd still really like to try it out, I don't think I actually have a deck with any of those cards in it. I just know how Magic players tend to feel about obtuse B/R lists (hi Modern) and since Zombie Horde is a superset of EDH, figuring out a way to make it work without making people need to submit to two banned lists is probably a healthy thing. vOv Plus putting together a Horde cube looks to be cheap as shit, and I'm all about Magic the cheap way :D

[Bryant Cook]

This. I was at break at work and hit Send and realized I should probably have edited that for clarity, but I was already clocked back in :(

The pertinent aspect of this was that something like a WoG or Crusade effect only actually affected adjacent players. So like, in a Zombie Horde situation, one could say that an Elesh Norn effect doesn't "reach" over the table to the zombie horde. It does make sweepers pretty bad, but it seems like a ton of weird stuff like Urabrask the Hidden is needlessly banned, and sort of gives EDH an additional wonky banned list on top of their current "unofficial but still wonky" banned list. I mean like, who's going to change their deck just to play Zombie Horde :(

All in all though it's cool, it is something of a fledgling experiment, it's not like I expected a group of BDFLs like they have over at mtgcommander.net. I'd still really like to try it out, I don't think I actually have a deck with any of those cards in it. I just know how Magic players tend to feel about obtuse B/R lists (hi Modern) and since Zombie Horde is a superset of EDH, figuring out a way to make it work without making people need to submit to two banned lists is probably a healthy thing. vOv Plus putting together a Horde cube looks to be cheap as shit, and I'm all about Magic the cheap way :D

The way that we play is if a card is "Cheap" like an Elesh Norn, Moat, or Blazing Archon effect. The player puts it on the bottom and draws a card, essentially a cycle. The card just can't effect the game.

[Killane]

Hey Bryant,

Anything on how you reduce the Horde for fewer than 4 players? What numbers do you use for 1,2, and 3 player games vs your version of the Horde?

[Bryant Cook]

Hey Bryant,

Anything on how you reduce the Horde for fewer than 4 players? What numbers do you use for 1,2, and 3 player games vs your version of the Horde?

I don't reduce - that's for bitches.

200 cards all the time. I simply just change the number of free turns players receive with the amount of players. If everyone's deck is powerful, I lower the number of free turns even more.

4 players = 1 free turn
3 Players = 2 free turns
2 Players = 3 free turns

[Killane]

Awesome, thanks, that makes sense

[Bryant Cook]

I don't know if anyone is still interested in this, but I updated my horde list. Here it is:

Zombie Horde

100 Zombie Tokens
20 Zombie Giant Tokens

1 Gravecrawler
1 Dregscape Zombie
1 Rotting Rats
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Rotlung Reanimator
1 Unbreathing Horde
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Diregraf Captain
1 Death Baron
1 Adaptive Automaton
1 Zombie Master
1 Anathemancer
1 Shambling Remains
1 Dreg Mangler
1 Haakon, Stromgald Scourge
1 Skaab Ruinator
1 Viscera Dragger
1 Ashen Ghoul
1 Cackling Fiend
1 Vengeful Dead
1 Undead Warchief
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Grave Defiler
1 Soulless One
1 Nim Devourer
1 Nested Ghoul
1 Lightning Reaver
1 Dread Slaver
1 Lilliana’s Reaver
1 Noxious Ghoul
1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Vulturous Zombie
1 Grixis Slavedriver
1 Sedris, the Traitor King
1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Maalfeld Twins
1 Grave Titan
1 Brass Herald
1 Terrus Wurm
1 Tresserhorn Skyknight
1 Thraximundar
1 Sutured Ghoul
1 Ghoultree

1 Moan of the Unhallowed
1 Army of the Damned
1 Empty the Catacombs
1 Living Death
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Zombie Apocalypse
1 Twilight's Call
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Cover of Darkness
1 Intimidation
1 Strength of Night
1 Door of Destinies
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Coat of Arms
1 Anthem of Rakdos
1 Akroma's Memorial
1 Dark Tutelage
1 Dark Prophecy
1 Minions' Murmurs
1 Distant Melody
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Noxious Vapors
1 Delirium Skeins
1 Syhpon Mind
1 Skull Rend
1 Gibbering Decent
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Innocent Blood
1 Small Pox
1 Barter in Blood
1 Syphon Flesh
1 Call to the Grave
1 Plague Wind
1 Decree of Pain

[jcsy]

Initially I made a Marrow-Gnawer rats deck, with Relentless Rats for EDH casual

I then converted it to a 90% HORDE deck, with rats theme'd

Its stupid and fun;

Here is my list for the rats deck;

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/relentless-marrow-gnawer/

and some house horde rules, with this deck

https://www.dropbox.com/s/of11sobs2ojttbx/HORDE%20MAGIC.doc

Its alot to digest, but it gets people in that direction. There is a forever on-going balancing, which I doubt we can ever achieve but its fun on its own

[TsumiBand]

I wasn't able to participate in the Theros release event, but as I understand it they introduced their own version of an 'auto-pilot' deck.

http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Face_the_Hydra

Does Horde Magic have anything it can gain from this approach to a self-running deck? I know that many of the effects in the deck are tailored for the event, and as such 'regular' Magic cards don't cater to this as well as a customized card, let alone a whole deck.

At the least, it seems like it can inform deck construction - not necessarily with the product it released so much as the mentality behind it. Maybe something like a 'banned/restricted' list isn't appropriate for a format like this, so much as an 'ignore' list. "Effects which do [this], [that] and [the other thing] are ignored" lets us continue to play with things that are just obvious format dreamcrushers like Moat or Elesh Norn or what-have-you without making it an effect or card that players always just have to cycle away.

Just a thought, really; I know it's kind of hard to get the right balance with this kind of approach to the game.