28 Days Later

[JustPAT4]

http://masochismet.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/28_days_later_bebo_skin.gif?w=640&h=315


Overview:

I've been noodling around with a few different builds since Gravecrawler was spoiled that hope to abuse one of my favorite all time cards, Contamination.

The current list I've been testing is B/w. No doubt the deck works fine as mono-black, but Tidehollow Sculler seems like such a strong card for a deck that craves the Zombie creature type. The cost of this light splash is having to up the mana count in order to support Mox Diamond (because of the dis-synergy with Contamination).

Basically the deck hopes to disrupt the opponent long enough to either overwhelm with small horde or land a Contamination lock. Kinda gimmicky, but fun nonetheless.

Decklist:

4 Gravecrawler
4 Sarcomancy
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
2 Phylactery Lich

4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Swords to Plowshares

2 Contamination
3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Mox Diamond

4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Poluted Delta
4 Scrubland
8 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth


No fixed sideboard as of yet.

Other considerations include:
Vindicate
Inquisition of Kozilek
Cabal Therapy
Phyrexian Obliterator
Carnophage
Bitterblossom
Go for the Throat
Darkblast
Diregraf Ghoul.

Okay so this is rough rough rough. Still, a stable Contamination in conjunction with Zombies is so fucking bad ass, just dripping with flavor. I dream to pull a .500 record in a weekly tourny someday with such a list. Help me make it work!

Friends, gamers, countrymen, citizens of the world, lend me your thoughts. :smile:

[Kich867]

For one, I would keep the deck mono black. Contamination locks you out of your own useful cards. Lich is hard to utilize in a deck with very few artifacts. I honestly don't even see a point to Liliana in the deck other than the fact that she's a black planeswalker, she doesn't do anything to further the goal of the deck and actually doesn't play very well with Contamination given you want your recurring creatures on the field, not in your graveyard, you recur them to keep Contamination alive. You discarding recurrable creatures isn't really breaking the symmetry if you wanted them on the field to begin with.

This is how I would build the deck, focusing more on recurring creatures, a large beater, and disruption / board removal.

//Creatures: 18
4x Gravecrawler
3x Reassembling Skeleton
3x Bloodghast
4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Abyssal Persecuter

//Spells: 16
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Ghastly Demise
3x Go For the Throat

//Enchantments: 4
4x Contamination

//Lands: 22
2x Volrath's Stronghold
20x Swamp

Diregraf really aren't the greatest thing but they're a cheap, good zombie to interact with gravecrawlers, giving you 8 zombies to resurrect them. Abyssal Persecuter seals the game, can be sacced to Contaminate or Therapy, and beats every other flier in legacy. I didn't include Bob because I didn't think there was room and I'm weary of using him in a deck that doesn't win particularly fast. I mean, if a contaminate lock actually hits most people should lose. There are few decks that can operate solely on black mana and put up a real fight.

[JustPAT4]

Some sweet ideas in there. Especially Reassembling Skeleton and Volrath's Stronghold.

I think you're right that the deck really wants to be mono-black.

I don't think 8 Zombies is enough to reliably support Gravecrawler. You yourself said that Lich was hard to utilize in a deck with few artifacts (the above list ran 11 artifacts).

I like sarcomancy over diregraf ghoul although ghoul is retrievable with stronghold which is a plus. Maybe we can find room for both? I'd love to hit 12 total zombies.

Darkblast seems pretty okay in a deck with gravecrawler, reassembling skeleton, bloodghast, cabal therapy, ghastly demise, and stronghold. No?

[John Cox]

I would go with

Gravecrawler
Carnophage
Sarcomancy

as the zombies and then run disruption/ draw for the rest of the deck, I think Cabal Therapy is a must and Jitte should be in there too.

[Mystical_Jackass]

If you want to show some balls?

4x Ritual
4x Negator
4x Bitterblossom

If you can ritual out a Negator, I've played against someone who did this to me and managed to barely win game one, then almost won game 3 too if I didn't get a Maze out.. anyways, it really does go well with Sarcomancy (sac the enchantments) and any recursion or tokens. I would at least test this guy out, you might be surprised.

[John Cox]

If you want to show some balls?

4x Ritual
4x Negator
4x Bitterblossom

If you can ritual out a Negator, I've played against someone who did this to me and managed to barely win game one, then almost won game 3 too if I didn't get a Maze out.. anyways, it really does go well with Sarcomancy (sac the enchantments) and any recursion or tokens. I would at least test this guy out, you might be surprised.


So I propose


4 sarcomancy
4 gravecrawler
4 carnophage


4 phyrexian negator
4 bitterblossom
4 Dark Ritual


4 hymn to tourach
4 thoughtseize
4 cabal therapy
4 chalice of the void
4 wasteland
16 swamp


Zombie sui black

[JustPAT4]

If you want to show some balls?

4x Ritual
4x Negator



Yeah yeah, I tested this. I used to run this in extended way back along with Hatred, skittering skirge, and dauthi slayer. Very nice synergy with sarcomancy, back then and now. Problem I ran into a few times and theorize that I will consistently run into is that Lightning Bolt is all over the place in the meta. It's the bane of Phyrexian Negator.

Carnophage vs. Diregraf ghoul is the debate I've been having. Carnophage seems better as a utility body because he blocks when he hits, but Diregraf is better turn 1 and doesn't suck life from you if you're in a race. I'm really not sure which is better.

I think that there's value in having Negator in the board, especially if dark rit makes its way into the list (which is an idea that really appeals to me).

[Kich867]

I'm of the opinion that Diregraf Ghoul is better than Carnophage--Carnophage can't attack the turn it comes into play anyways, much like Diregraf Ghoul, they're the same power toughness, and Diregraf doesn't hit you per turn it's in play.

The only upside is Carnophage can block the turn it comes in which I guess is relevant.

Darkblast is good with Delver running around as well as Bob, Clique, and a lot of other nice things. The Dredge could turn out beneficial hitting recurring dudes but if you hit contaminates it wouldn't be too great. I think when you have larger threats to deal with, you want to be able to actually kill them. Tarmogoyf, Knight, etc. Smaller guys can die to your recurring swingers.

I'm very partial to Ghastly Demise and GFTT. I've always seen GD do a ton of work and GFTT kills everything GD can't.

I went for a lot of discard in my list to make sure Contaminate landed. Honestly, I'd almost rather focus on Reassembling Skeleton and Bloodghasts over bothering with Gravecrawler. He requires too much investment of slots for an effect other cards bring just as well. Bloodghasts don't even cost mana, Skele-Dad's don't need another skele-dad around.

I didn't see much need for Bob or any real card drawing mechanics, but dropping those guys and just running 8 recursion creatures might open slots for top's..which I would find useful. I don't see a purpose to run Jitte they shouldn't be able to play much as it stands anyways.

I guess I'll concede on the Carnophage point, you can turn him off if you want late game and are just waiting for beaters.

[Justin]

Unfortunately, there are a lot better tribal decks out there than Zombies. I don't think Gravecrawler puts it over the top. But if I was forced to play Zombies, I'd go with a more pure deck like this:

// Lands
20 [M10] Swamp

// Creatures
4 [TE] Sarcomancy
4 [ISD] Diregraf Ghoul
4 [FNM] Carnophage
4 [DKA] Gravecrawler
2 [LE] Withered Wretch
4 [10E] Lord of the Undead


// Spells
4 [TE] Dark Ritual
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [AT] Hymn to Tourach
4 [NPH] Dismember
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte

I don't think it's a choice of Carnophage vs. Diergraf. Why not run 16 2/2 zombies for B and use Dark Rit to vomit them all over the board on turn one? It might also be worth considering the following: Blind Creeper, Stromgald Crusader, and Death Baron as well.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I sorta like Justin's take, since from experience I know there's a narrow window early game that you can rush decks like Maverick and Stoneblade if you can sneak out a couple 2/2 bears...

But, if you're literally filling your deck with 1cmc spells, you need:
4x Aether Vial
4x Wasteland

No exceptions. You need to stunt their accel, otherwise you can have turn3 batterskulls in your face. Maybe cut two spells and 2 lands as well to fit in vials. That alone will give that deck a serious competetive boost against many decks. This would be some serious all-in tribal (hilarious), but honestly that's probably only way to be effective. As it stands now, it's not fast enough, it's vulnerable to countermagic and disruption and gy removal big time.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I sorta like Justin's take, since from experience I know there's a narrow window early game that you can rush decks like Maverick and Stoneblade if you can sneak out a couple 2/2 bears...

But, if you're literally filling your deck with 1cmc spells, you need:
4x Aether Vial
4x Wasteland

No exceptions. You need to stunt their accel, otherwise you can have turn3 batterskulls in your face. Maybe cut two spells and 2 lands as well to fit in vials. That alone will give that deck a serious competetive boost against many decks. This would be some serious all-in tribal (hilarious), but honestly that's probably only way to be effective. As it stands now, it's not fast enough, it's vulnerable to countermagic and disruption and gy removal big time.

Would you have ever thought, even five years ago, that we'd be able to say without a doubt that six power spread across 3 bodies swinging on turn 2 was bad?

[optml]

Great little idea for using Contamination. I think I would go for maximum disruption and cheap, 1 mana creatures to ensure full use of aether vial (and throw in a lord or two to power them up). Something more like this.

N.B. Unholy Grotto is strictly better than stronghold when only using zombies.

Creatures

4x Gravecrawler
4x carnophage
4x diregraf ghoul
4x Sarcomancy
2x Death Baron
2x Lord of the Undead

// Utility
4x Aether Vial

// Disruption
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Dismember
4x Contamination

// Lands
12x Swamp
4x Wasteland
2x Unholy Grotto
1x Phyrexian Tower

[optml]

Great little idea for using Contamination. I think I would go for maximum disruption and cheap, 1 mana creatures to ensure full use of aether vial (and throw in a lord or two to power them up). Something more like this.

N.B. Unholy Grotto is strictly better than stronghold when only using zombies.

Creatures

4x Gravecrawler
4x carnophage
4x diregraf ghoul
4x Sarcomancy
2x Death Baron
2x Lord of the Undead

// Utility
4x Aether Vial

// Disruption
4x Hymn to Tourach
3x Thoughtseize
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Dismember
4x Contamination

// Lands
12x Swamp
4x Wasteland
2x Unholy Grotto
1x Phyrexian Tower

[Justin]

A few suggestions for the above deck. It is too light on two-drops. You have no 2cc creatures, which doesn't make much sense in a deck that plays Aether Vial, and only have Hymn as a 2cc spell. I also think that running Jitte is a good two-drop for this deck as well. There are swarms of creatures to pick it up. All of its abilities help this deck a lot (the pump to help zombies power through goyfs and other bigger creatures, removal which is almost always good, and the life gain that can offset some of the "suicide" effects of the deck).

I suspect that Contamination falls under the category of "the danger of cool things" for this deck. Although it does have some synergy with Gravecrawler and some other cards, it works best with stuff like Bitterblossom that produces mutliple tokens. Cutting Contamination would allow you to increase your two-drops. Conatamination was tried in The Gate (a deck that has better synergy with it than Zombies) and it was largely dismissed.

I'm also not sure why Phyrexian Tower is here. It's generally played in decks that run Abbysal Persecutor to get it off the board.

[Kich867]

A few suggestions for the above deck. It is too light on two-drops. You have no 2cc creatures, which doesn't make much sense in a deck that plays Aether Vial, and only have Hymn as a 2cc spell. I also think that running Jitte is a good two-drop for this deck as well. There are swarms of creatures to pick it up. All of its abilities help this deck a lot (the pump to help zombies power through goyfs and other bigger creatures, removal which is almost always good, and the life gain that can offset some of the "suicide" effects of the deck).

I suspect that Contamination falls under the category of "the danger of cool things" for this deck. Although it does have some synergy with Gravecrawler and some other cards, it works best with stuff like Bitterblossom that produces mutliple tokens. Cutting Contamination would allow you to increase your two-drops. Conatamination was tried in The Gate (a deck that has better synergy with it than Zombies) and it was largely dismissed.

I'm also not sure why Phyrexian Tower is here. It's generally played in decks that run Abbysal Persecutor to get it off the board.

Maybe there was some misunderstanding. From the OP:


I've been noodling around with a few different builds since Gravecrawler was spoiled that hope to abuse one of my favorite all time cards, Contamination.

It seems odd that people decided to hijack this thread for some zombie tribal weenie deck concept that was never intended to be discussed. There are zombie tribal threads in this subforum already.

You can discuss the merit of whether Contamination is a good card, but this thread is supposed to be about decks that use it, preferably with gravecrawler in mind.

[xazzax]

Dudes... dudes... carnophage? carrion feeder
He does scary things with Gravecrawler.

[Justin]

Maybe there was some misunderstanding. From the OP:



It seems odd that people decided to hijack this thread for some zombie tribal weenie deck concept that was never intended to be discussed. There are zombie tribal threads in this subforum already.

You can discuss the merit of whether Contamination is a good card, but this thread is supposed to be about decks that use it, preferably with gravecrawler in mind.

Ok, fair enough. Maybe the thread should have been called "Contaminated Zombies" instead.

"28 Days Later" is a great movie, but it's actually a poor name for this thread. The creatures in that movie were "the infected," not zombies. So it's actually a more appropriate title for decks that want to abuse the "infect" mechanic rather than tribal zombies.

[Greenpoe]

Going from the OP list (which looked pretty strong- White gives Sculler and StP)-I think Enlightened Tutor could be fantastic. It fetches Sacromancy (in case you need a 1-drop Zombie), Sculler, and other artifacts for good ol' Phalactery Lich. It also grabs Bitterblossom OR Contamination, which means E-Tutor is basically Vampiric Tutor in this deck, being able to fetch discard (Sculler), beaters & blockers (Bitterblossom/Sarcomancy), even removal (Oblivion Ring) and both parts of the combo (BB+Contamination) or a Zombie to enable the Gravecrawler. Plus, it grabs equipment.

[nedleeds]

Ditch Aether Vial and play Bitterblossom. Load up on 1 CC discard, in a world of 4 x Spell Snare and 4 x Snapcaster Mage you absolutely need one in your opening hand. Contagion and Bitterblossom is just too good not to play. The old 1 drop 2/2 zombies just aren't good enough to merit inclusion unless you are going for all out swarm, and at that point you need crap like Bad Moon. Carrion Feeder also has to make the cut, he protects your Gravecrawlers from getting exiled from play, he has synergy with Bitterblossom and Sculler. Bob is awesome but I think Bitterblossom is the better choice, and along with Tidehollow Sculler that soaks your 2 spot pretty well.

Also I think you want Ghastly Demise since you have to kill SFM or whatever they intend to attach SoFaF to ...


4 Bitterblossom
4 Contamination
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Gravecrawler
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ghastly Demise
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Scrubland
1 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Unholy Grotto
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Sorin Markov, Lord of Bitterblossom Tokens Wrecking Face
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Mishra's Factory

[Kich867]

Ok, fair enough. Maybe the thread should have been called "Contaminated Zombies" instead.

"28 Days Later" is a great movie, but it's actually a poor name for this thread. The creatures in that movie were "the infected," not zombies. So it's actually a more appropriate title for decks that want to abuse the "infect" mechanic rather than tribal zombies.

I don't see the point in bringing up the name, it doesn't justify the hijack nor derailing. It helps to read the opening post. In similar news, the deck Grinding Station's OP is called Grinding Station with a picture of the card at the top--it's a storm combo deck that has virtually nothing to do with Grinding Station.

I mean even if you wanted to go that way, you could just as easily (and rightfully so since..reading the OP helps yet again) point out that 28 days later is actually based on a contamination--infection by contact or association.

I thought the name was fitting, that a movie about a widespread disease could be the title for a deck focusing on the card Contaminate. Spend a few minutes reading over the opening post, it helps.

In any event, while I agree a B/W combo would more reliably find contaminate, I feel somewhat offput at that idea that once the lock is enabled, a certain portion of your deck is harder to cast. The Mox Diamonds would definitely help that, but they feel sketchy to me--2:1'ing yourself in order to still cast white spells doesn't seem fantastic. On the flip side, being able to turn 1 hymn to tourach someone or drop 2 dudes would be pretty nice.

[nedleeds]

Don't you just want a Duress effect turn one? Why all the BS with Mox Diamonds? You have Sculler / Bitterblossom as amazing two plays.

The plan is:

Clear Counterspells
Lay threat (Bitterblossom / Sculler)
Lay lock (Contamination) or run back Therapy and complete the hand sacking

There's no need for Mox Diamond in a deck that doesn't run Loam or Crucible or Chalice and has a curve that sits firmly at 2.

[Kich867]

Don't you just want a Duress effect turn one? Why all the BS with Mox Diamonds? You have Sculler / Bitterblossom as amazing two plays.

The plan is:

Clear Counterspells
Lay threat (Bitterblossom / Sculler)
Lay lock (Contamination) or run back Therapy and complete the hand sacking

There's no need for Mox Diamond in a deck that doesn't run Loam or Crucible or Chalice and has a curve that sits firmly at 2.

The point would be to be able to cast white spells after contaminate is in play.

[nedleeds]

The point would be to be able to cast white spells after contaminate is in play.

Ugh. I think the game is locked at that point. Seems really clumsy. Why are you laying Contaminate if they have board advantage?

Maybe that's more incentive to dump white and go with all black creature removal.


- Ghastly Demise
- Contagion
- Go For the Throat
- Vendetta
- Diabolic Edict
- Dismember
- Victim of Night


Sculler is just so strong.

[Mystical_Jackass]

I mean, I SB a contamination 'cause I run E. Tutors for certain matchups.. but your list is essentially a Deadguy list that's just focused more toward the combo, but less efficient creatures and less hand removal.

I'm not gonna say don't do it, because I haven't tried it but you'll have to tell me if the tradeoff is worth it after testing. 'Cause it might come out a lil too late against tribal (and it doesn't shut down Mutas/Factories might I add), has to play around counter first, and it doesn't necessarily stop the Batterskull in their hand.

[-Spooky-]

I feel like you guys are concentrating too much on making this into a mid-range/aggro style deck that just happens to have Contamination in it. by this I mean you are not concentrating enough on the Contamination, gravecrawler interaction. If you are going to have the combo, I feel like it should be given the attention it deserves.

My idea is this. Gravecrawler needs a zombie to work from the yard. You guys are trying to stick a bunch of zombies into the deck to hope you have one on the field when you need it. Why? There is a card people seem to forget can go in decks other than dredge.

Bridge from Below

If you use this with contamination or other sac outlets and gravecrawler or other zombies that recur you are golden. add in Entomb to find a gravecrawker or Bridge from Below when you need it.

Just seems like we could go in this direction much easier than making a zombie tribal deck and throwing contamination into it.

[Kich867]

This list that I helped my roommate make currently has a solid 80% win rate vs U/R Delver. We played 5 sets last night and 5 sets tonight, every time, I pulled out a 2-0 or a 2-1 against him through sheer luck (literally, it was the best possible opening hand and best possible opening draws resulting in turn 4 wins each time with not-so-great hands from him):

//Creatures:
3x Abyssal Persecutor
1x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Reanimating Skeleton
4x Bloodghast

//Spells:
4x Duress
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Smallpox
4x Innocent Blood
2x Ghastly Demise
4x Contamination

//Artifacts:
3x Sensei's Divining Top

//Lands:
4x Polluted Delta
2x Phyrexian Tower
16x Swamp

I've been saying this for awhile, most people laugh when I tell them, but Reanimating Skeleton is one of the best creatures I've seen printed. Combine that card with Phyrexian Tower and it's basically a wall that requires exiling to go away (it shuts down Batterskull and Jitte equipped creatures pretty hard).

Every game goes like this: he whittles away at my hand with discard, smallpox keeps me a notch below him as he recurs his creatures in the graveyard. He leans on me until I don't have any counters OR he baits counters with Contaminate to pave the way for Persecutor/Obliterator. I can't block his creatures unless I win outright, I can't kill his creatures because they don't actually die, the one creature I CAN kill requires 2 consecutive burns in one turn..

The dynamic of having a must-counter spell is crippling. Contaminate gives it this almost explosive random win that you have to be constantly aware of. If I don't have a counter in my hand I'm well aware that I could just randomly lose to resolved contaminate.

As a general statement, Bloodghasts tend to do the most work though. Once two or three of them hit the table, you need to have 2 conditions true: 1) have more creatures than he does, 2) your creatures can't die if they block them. That's actually not that easy, especially in U/R delver where 0 creatures have 3 or higher toughness.

In the control match-up, counterspells are nearly useless against most of his deck, targeted discard forces you to give them up or lose them anyways, removal is largely unnecessary and a resolved contaminate will seal the game. Even if you're running black, the largest creature any black deck other than The Gate runs is Tombstalker, who conveniently loses to Persecutor.

I'm of the opinion he should:
-1 smallpox
-1 innocent blood
-1 persecutor
-1 Duress
+1 obliterator
+2 go for the throat
+1 Inquisition of Kozilek

Since more targeted creature kill is good and with the popularity of U/R Delver and RUG Tempo these days, Obliterator kind of shits on those decks if he resolves. Removing him isn't an option to those decks, they just get put on a ~4 turn clock that they can't deal with or else they lose.

We'll get more testing in with it and I'll report in when I can, but as of right now, this deck tears apart one of the most popular decks around right now.