Dredge

[Beatusnox]

Hello all,

I just started playing dredge very recently and someone in my lgs explained something to me that sounds too good to be actually true. They had stated that when you dredge, it puts the top x cards in your graveyard at the same time, which would allow me to set the order in which they hit the grave.

As much as i want it to be true i can see why it wouldnt be, but the way dredge is worded it could.

[TheShaun]

This is correct.

[Beatusnox]

Thank you.

[TheShaun]

Side note that if dredging multiple times to the same effect, each individual dredge is ordered within itself. By this I mean that if you cast Careful Study and replace each draw with a dredge of say, Golgari Grave Troll, then you put the first 6 into the graveyard in any order, then the next 6 in any order, then the 2 discarded cards. After the spell completely resolves is when things like Narcomoeba go on the stack. I know I've seen many dredge players put Narco's into play as they are still in the process of resolving a spell or effect, which is wrong.

[Michael Keller]

Also just to reiterate, once cards have been dredged into your graveyard and ordered in the fashion you choose, they may not then be reordered. Once they are in the graveyard, that's the order they stay in.

This is especially important if you're running something like Nether Shadow.

[Beatusnox]

Thanks for the answers guys, so the best way to do it is to count off X NOT putting them into the graveyard and ordering them first?

[cdr]

Thanks for the answers guys, so the best way to do it is to count off X NOT putting them into the graveyard and ordering them first?

That's fine, yes.

The relevant rule is that whenever two or more cards go to an ordered zone (library, graveyard) at the same time, the owner gets to choose the order. This is the same reason you get to choose the order the lands go on top when you get Plow Undered or the order creatures go in your graveyard after Wrath of God.

[Water_Wizard]

Is MTGO incorrect regarding the holdings above? Graveyard order, etc.? When I play on MTGO, I've never been asked to order my dredge, it just puts the appropriate number of cards in the gy. Likewise, I just opened two accounts and play tested the following situation - I have Stoneforge Mystic and Dark Confidant in play. My opponent (other account) has Sylvan Ranger and Goblin Balloon Brigade. I cast Damnation. It never asks either player to order creatures going into the yard. Likewise, if I'm Hymned to Tourached, on MTGO, I don't get to pick what order my cards go into the graveyard. Why?

[Beatusnox]

Is MTGO incorrect regarding the holdings above? Graveyard order, etc.? When I play on MTGO, I've never been asked to order my dredge, it just puts the appropriate number of cards in the gy. Likewise, I just opened two accounts and play tested the following situation - I have Stoneforge Mystic and Dark Confidant in play. My opponent (other account) has Sylvan Ranger and Goblin Balloon Brigade. I cast Damnation. It never asks either player to order creatures going into the yard. Likewise, if I'm Hymned to Tourached, on MTGO, I don't get to pick what order my cards go into the graveyard. Why?

I believe this is more of an issue with the coding nightmare it would be more-so than a rules standpoint, though it is a very valid issue. Try emailing MTGO support with an error report, when they initially made the game they probably did not take into account wanting to stack your cards in a specific order.

[cdr]

I remember that being an issue when Ravnica was released; I don't play much MTGO but I'd be somewhat surprised if they haven't done something about it by now. Did you look for something in the Options menu, maybe?

[Water_Wizard]

I remember that being an issue when Ravnica was released; I don't play much MTGO but I'd be somewhat surprised if they haven't done something about it by now. Did you look for something in the Options menu, maybe?

Yes, I did look under the options menu. Maybe they trigger it for cards that matter (i.e. if a Nether Shadow is going into the graveyard, they will let you order your cards) in order to save time. I know I have been asked to order my graveyard after creatures died (perhaps after combat damage?), but I couldn't recreate it last night. Honestly, I'm glad it doesn't ask me to do it every time, because 99.9% of the time, it hasn't mattered (although I don't play Nether Shadow dredge, either :wink:).

[Koby]

Mtgo is coded to only check for graveyard if any card any either player's deck cares about the order. Otherwise the order is ignored.

[Water_Wizard]

Mtgo is coded to only check for graveyard if any card any either player's deck cares about the order. Otherwise the order is ignored.

Thanks dude! Makes sense they coded it to include a time-saving device, as the vast majority of the time, graveyard order doesn't matter. Thanks for the clarification!