Shortcut on Chrome Mox

[ReinVos]

I know there are some shortcuts that are acceptable in competitive play. You can target planeswalkers with direct damage spells or you can cast Cabal Therapy and then name a card before it resolves.

Can I cast a Chrome Mox, reveal a white card from my hand while it's on the stack, opponent lets it resolve and then choose to imprint a blue card? As far as I know it's not illegal to reveal cards from your hand at any given time, although I'm clearly trying to mislead the opponent.

I'm guessing this works the same as any other shortcut, which means I'm forced to imprint the revealed card.

[Michael Keller]

I know there are some shortcuts that are acceptable in competitive play. You can target planeswalkers with direct damage spells or you can cast Cabal Therapy and then name a card before it resolves.

You can name a card before it resolves, but if a player indicates Therapy hasn't resolved, then they would obviously get a chance to respond. Also, that's an indicator of very sloppy and overzealous play, a very bad tell on that player's part.


Can I cast a Chrome Mox, reveal a white card from my hand while it's on the stack, opponent lets it resolve and then choose to imprint a blue card? As far as I know it's not illegal to reveal cards from your hand at any given time, although I'm clearly trying to mislead the opponent.

That again is very shady and ambiguous, and I would probably call a judge to verify the situation if I were said opponent. If Chrome Mox is still on the stack and you choose to reveal a card for the sake of revealing a card, that's just information your opponent is picking up for free. It also, however, could be construed as an indication of what you're opting to imprint and that sort of behavior - while I would imagine being borderline legal - is very undermining of the integrity of the game and any competent player would know what it is you're trying to do from your mannerisms - including plays like the aforementioned one.


I'm guessing this works the same as any other shortcut, which means I'm forced to imprint the revealed card.

Not entirely true.

If a player drops a Vendilion Clique and an opponent drops his or her hand, you have every right as the Clique player to target yourself after the fact. That is the difference between a shortcut and misinterpreting the rules: a player who opts to act before the resolution of a spell or ability is just doing it out of their own lack of rules comprehension and the mistake is pretty much on their shoulders.

The same is true for Cabal Therapy: if I decide to cast a Therapy and quickly name a card, the opponent has a chance to respond and possibly find a way to use or hide the card. This would be "backing up" and stopping the shortcut at a given moment and then you would have to name a card upon resolution of the spell. It's a very common mistake - or misnomer - that you name a card upon the resolution of Cabal Therapy, not as you cast it.

However, intentionally misleading an opponent is indefinitely illegal and a judge would probably have to sort out what exactly the circumstances surrounding the situation were in order to rule appropriately.

[cdr]

I know there are some shortcuts that are acceptable in competitive play. You can target planeswalkers with direct damage spells or you can cast Cabal Therapy and then name a card before it resolves.

Can I cast a Chrome Mox, reveal a white card from my hand while it's on the stack, opponent lets it resolve and then choose to imprint a blue card? As far as I know it's not illegal to reveal cards from your hand at any given time, although I'm clearly trying to mislead the opponent.

I'm guessing this works the same as any other shortcut, which means I'm forced to imprint the revealed card.

The rule with shortcutting things that happen on resolution is that you are bound to your choice unless your opponent responds. If you reveal a card when casting Chrome Mox and your opponent doesn't respond to it, you are bound to imprint that card.

There are legal ways to mislead your opponent; be very sure you know what those are before you attempt to mislead, or you're going to find yourself on the wrong end of a cheating DQ.


You can name a card before it resolves, but if a player indicates Therapy hasn't resolved, then they would obviously get a chance to respond. Also, that's an indicator of very sloppy and overzealous play, a very bad tell on that player's part.

That's a moral judgment; I wouldn't call it sloppy or overzealous - in most circumstances it's an attempt to speed up the game or a misunderstanding of the rules, and that's what the tournament rules on shortcuts are designed to address.


That again is very shady and ambiguous, and I would probably call a judge to verify the situation if I were said opponent. If Chrome Mox is still on the stack and you choose to reveal a card for the sake of revealing a card, that's just information your opponent is picking up for free. It also, however, could be construed as an indication of what you're opting to imprint and that sort of behavior - while I would imagine being borderline legal - is very undermining of the integrity of the game and any competent player would know what it is you're trying to do from your mannerisms - including plays like the aforementioned one.

Revealing a card is neither shady nor ambiguous as long as you follow the shortcut rules and know you're bound to that choice if there's no response. If you try to take it back, though, there's a possibility you're headed for a DQ.


Not entirely true.

If a player drops a Vendilion Clique and an opponent drops his or her hand, you have every right as the Clique player to target yourself after the fact. That is the difference between a shortcut and misinterpreting the rules: a player who opts to act before the resolution of a spell or ability is just doing it out of their own lack of rules comprehension and the mistake is pretty much on their shoulders.

That's a completely different situation - an opponent assuming something that hasn't been indicated in any way.


The same is true for Cabal Therapy: if I decide to cast a Therapy and quickly name a card, the opponent has a chance to respond and possibly find a way to use or hide the card. This would be "backing up" and stopping the shortcut at a given moment and then you would have to name a card upon resolution of the spell. It's a very common mistake - or misnomer - that you name a card upon the resolution of Cabal Therapy, not as you cast it.

However, intentionally misleading an opponent is indefinitely illegal and a judge would probably have to sort out what exactly the circumstances surrounding the situation were in order to rule appropriately.

Again, naming a card with Cabal Therapy on announcement is explicitly covered by the shortcut rules. This first paragraph is not accurate in the details, and as far as the second, misleading an opponent is legal as long as it's done in a legal way. Knowledge of the rules is a valid competitive advantage.

[Offler]

On Chrome Mox vs. Cabal Theraphy

If both cards are played as written without shortcuts, no player has an advantage of knowing something that is normally hidden and both chances are hidden.

If the Mox is cast with shortcut, and Theraphy is cast afterwards the stacking always gives advantage to the Cabal Theraphy, because the card has been revealed bit early.

However even when discarded, owner of Chrome mox has an oportunity to choose different card from hand. If it was single white colored card and color matter - thats just a question of strategy.

My previous experience also shows that casting spells without shortcuts is safer for the caster, but it depends on playgroup. Some players like to mislead in a way when they are forcing players to reveal something upon casting a spell which can be revealed upon resolution. Be careful and dont let them manipulate.