Question Inked Cards

[thegrinningdemon]

Hello,

I wanted to post a question to get a feeling on my options regarding a recent purchase. I purchased a NM-M Beta Underground Sea that is in beautiful condition, but the top edge appears to show signs that the top front has been inked. I contacted to seller and explained the issue. We plan to work out an exchange or refund so not need to address those issues.

My question to the posters here is, what value does the card lose because of inking on the top edge. I would post pics, but I don't believe the inking would be visible. Under light and magnification, the front of the card does not appear to have been inked, however the edge is always a dead give away for this process. What does everyone think?

[oRen]

10-20% refund as it hurts badly on such a card even if it barely visible and not much.

[Royal Ass.]

It really sucks when you see a nice conditioned old card inked. I know this seems harsh, but I consider an inked card to automatically be in Poor condition regardless of the physical condition of the card. It might not bother some other people as much however. I would think it would hurt the value of an otherwise nice card card more like 30-50%. If the card is already in Poor condition due to play wear the inking doesn't hurt the value that much because the card is already in bad shape. It hurts the most on a card in NM or EX condition.

[thegrinningdemon]

It really sucks when you see a nice conditioned old card inked. I know this seems harsh, but I consider an inked card to automatically be in Poor condition regardless of the physical condition of the card. It might not bother some other people as much however. I would think it would hurt the value of an otherwise nice card card more like 30-50%. If the card is already in Poor condition due to play wear the inking doesn't hurt the value that much because the card is already in bad shape. It hurts the most on a card in NM or EX condition.

This is more in line with what I was thinking. Although some collector's might share oRen's opinion.

[oRen]

This is more in line with what I was thinking. Although some collector's might share oRen's opinion.
I guess collectors might rather share Ass's opinion - my point of view is from someone who intends to use all his playable cards.
Try to make pictures of the inking happen so that people can get a funded opinion.

I also got a slightly inked BB Usea (top of the backside) and I would be pretty stunned if anyone would value it at $135 because of the inking although this might not be comparable 1 to 1 to your crisp Beta Usea.
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/lDkFDoUAML.JPG
http://www.imgbox.de/users/public/images/Yyci2r4DTZ.JPG

[kiblast]

I also wonder why people ink card with markers, when I see badly inked cards I feel I'm in 2005 again. In the past I have restored a few revised duals for a couple of friends, and I had to restore the backside black border too. Well, if you use a 000 brush and black acrylic, I guarantee that the inking will not be visible in a scan and only noticeable if you look very closely in direct sunlight.

tl,dr: Don't ink your cards, but if you really want to, do it in a non-invasive way.

[Picc]

Gotta go with oRen on this one, If I paid for a NM card and it was inked I'd be ticked. IMO your right to ask for some compensation but a light inking on an otherwise perfect card does not reduce its value by 50%. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone welling to part with an otherwise NM sea at that level of discount.

[thegrinningdemon]

Yeah I was upset, but I am giving the guy the benefit of the doubt that he did not know it had been inked. I always check older cards for signs of being counterfeited, but I noticed the inking as I was removing the card from the sleeve.

I really cannot get a good pic of the edge of the card.

I appreciate the information. I value EX+ to NM Underground Seas at $900-1100 at auction. I valued this copy much higher. Considering the inking, I would rather have an EX+ to NM copy.

[sdematt]

An EX+/NM is in that range, but definitely not an inked one. Get yourself a refund, at least a partial one if you want to keep it.

If you paid, say, 1300 for it (which if it was Mint, sure), then I'd request a $450 refund. At 850, you can move it again (even with the ink, someone will pay) or keep it and not be too butt-hurt.

I wouldn't value it at 50%, since it's a Beta Sea, and you know what kind of trashy Sea you'll get for 500? Amazingly trashy, as in, probably Poor.

-Matt

[thegrinningdemon]

An EX+/NM is in that range, but definitely not an inked one. Get yourself a refund, at least a partial one if you want to keep it.

If you paid, say, 1300 for it (which if it was Mint, sure), then I'd request a $450 refund. At 850, you can move it again (even with the ink, someone will pay) or keep it and not be too butt-hurt.

I wouldn't value it at 50%, since it's a Beta Sea, and you know what kind of trashy Sea you'll get for 500? Amazingly trashy, as in, probably Poor.

-Matt

I doubt anyone would be willing to refund that much and I am not sure I want an inked card anyway. If I somehow end up on the short end of this deal, I want to have a plan to move it and buy another copy. I plan to ask for a full refund or trade down to a lesser condition copy that is not inked with the difference i cash refunded.

[Sloshthedark]

So the problem is you are concerned about the card being ink bordered i.e. fake or it is an actual beta card that has "minor" flaw, edge being partial/full/how much? colored with something? its hard to believe someone would not notice on "perfect" beta dual:really:


btw. whats your opinion on inking/coloring unlimited cards?
I find dual being only WB cards in the deck kind of offensive in black sleeves especially, however its nice for fetching... spending xxxx$ for color aesthetics is not an option as I like to live some life besides mtg...

so I actually consider a heretic idea of having my unlimited duals black bordered by an alterer.. (of course I plan to have him some other cards BB and see how it goes) any tips/trick/somebody tried it? the most discouraging thing is I haven't ever seen any, that means it's not popular that mean its probably not a good idea/result

I have only found some (http://alteredartmagic.blogspot.com/2011/11/dual-lands-by-klug.html) Klug has done feat. double border (which I do not plan to), you can tell something is wrong - white spots and such, but I don't believe it would be strictly bad and do not see why would the value drop if it looks live +/- the same as on the picture, anyway my intention is not to sell it/delude anyone, just want my borders black...

I mean it no way pimp (and I don't care) but isn't it just alteration like any other?

[jjjoness']

btw. whats your opinion on inking/coloring unlimited cards?
I find dual being only WB cards in the deck kind of offensive in black sleeves especially, however its nice for fetching... spending xxxx$ for color aesthetics is not an option as I like to live some life besides mtg...


Point is if you want BB duals you should really buy them. You might pay quite a lot more (especially on blue duals) but in the end you could always sell them for at least the price you got them for.
Painted unlimited duals will drastically fall in value, since most people would not want to buy them.

[death]

Klug has actually done a fine job, except those white spots are a tad bigger than how they normally would look on real beta duals (Afaik, only Volcanic Islands don't have them) and the outside black borders are too shiny so up close they are recognizably altered.

I wouldn't recommend doing it to good condition Unlimited duals, unless they're pretty beat or heavily creased. Altered BB will never be considered pimp, so just stay true to yourself and enjoy those WB awesomeness :)

[thegrinningdemon]

So the problem is you are concerned about the card being ink bordered i.e. fake or it is an actual beta card that has "minor" flaw, edge being partial/full/how much? colored with something? its hard to believe someone would not notice on "perfect" beta dual:really:


No the card is real. A beautiful card that does not appear to have any inking on the front, but it does since you can see the inking on the edge of the card where the ink has blead through. If you are looking at the edge of the card, you can see it. However, its only in a few spots on the top edge. It's a shame because whatever damage that was covered up on the front probably was much less than the damage that is caused by inking the card. I would have noticed it, but I try to think the best of people unless I have reason not to.

[oRen]

You know that the slightest damage on the rear of the boarders can cause tiny dark spots on the edges without inking the card? It is like the damaged causes the paint of the boarder to go around 90° from the boarder to the edge. Why should someone ink only the edges on a otherwise perfect card?

Hard to express. I hope you get what I mean.

[thegrinningdemon]

You know that the slightest damage on the rear of the boarders can cause tiny dark spots on the edges without inking the card? It is like the damaged causes the paint of the boarder to go around 90° from the boarder to the edge. Why should someone ink only the edges on a otherwise perfect card?

Hard to express. I hope you get what I mean.

No I get exactly what you mean. I have seen that before. I ruled that out with light and magnification. I returned the card, it will let the orginal owner go through the hassle. I am sure he is hoping to take only a 10 percent loss on th card I'm sure.

[Sloshthedark]

I wouldn't recommend doing it to good condition Unlimited duals, unless they're pretty beat or heavily creased. Altered BB will never be considered pimp, so just stay true to yourself and enjoy those WB awesomeness :)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8190/8127389572_aa4d0e4b3c_b.jpg

not perfect but not that bad at all... i'm happy with the result

[mini1337s]

Those poor poor Unlimited duals
I'm a sucker for Unlimited (started on a WB set) :P

The Grim Tutor looks pretty smexy though

[Julian23]

I'd pay a bit higher for well-down black bordering.

[Dia_Bot]

not perfect but not that bad at all... i'm happy with the result

How have you done these? With acrylics or with a black marker?
I do think they look nice (especially the Grim tutor :smile:)

[jamesh]

full refund and return the damaged card
there's no going back with inked cards and it's particularly bad on a big card like sea
the difference in price at auction between a nm sea and a damaged sea (which this is) is massive

[Sloshthedark]

I'd pay a bit higher for well-down black bordering.

well except sending them to Klug I had no better option, I doubt you can tell minor imperfections I meant from the photo... it's like you can't tell if the line is 100% straight staring at BB edge from 5cm several seconds on few of them... the BB is well done, thin, smooth, but matte = under certain light conditions and angle it's visible = not perfect when you inspect it really closely but can't imagine I'd ever play a revised dual again, it has pure aesthetics purpose but you get used to it pretty fast


How have you done these? With acrylics or with a black marker?
I do think they look nice (especially the Grim tutor :smile:)

I friend of mine who alters cards done that, he said it's up to 10 thin layers of acrylics and some kind of finishing layer, thanks