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Vastros
02-06-2012, 10:31 AM
Here is my latest project and I would love to get peoples opinions. I am trying to get into the legacy tournament scene after years of playing more or less casually and a year of playing more seriously. Without further ado:


Top of the Gate:

So here is the decklist:
Creatures:
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Vampire Nighthawk

Sorceries:
4x Hymn to Touroch
4x Duress
4x Innocent Blood

Instants:

1x Dizzy Spell
3x Brainstorm
3x Muddle The Mixture
4x Lim-Dul's Vault

Artifacts and Enchantments:

4x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Bitterblossom
3x Counterbalance

Lands:

4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Watery Grave
4x Swamp

Sideboard:
1x Bitterblossom
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Echoing Truth
3x Pithing Needle
3x Abyssal Persecutor


Deck breakdown:
For years I have loved Countertop and while looking through these forums I saw a deck titled the gate. It heavily fit my playstyle, so I thought of combining the two.

The main purpose of this deck is to disrupt opponents hands, forcing them to top deck, while using countertop as means to make it difficult to successfully top deck. With sideboarding it can turn more disruptive, or more aggressive as needed.

Brainstorm/Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining top: Nothing that I can say here hasn't been said a million different times in as many places much less this site.

Vampire Nighthawk: Gives fantastic board presence as well as counters the life loss from Bitterblossom,Lim-dul's Vault, and Fetchlands. A solid body at 2/3 with flying and lifelink and a fantastic aggro creature as well.

Gatekeeper of Malakir: Either functions as a 2/2 for 2, or with kicker a solid creature and board control as it can deal with creatures with shroud, or deal with persecutors sideboarded in.

Hymn to Touroch:
Referred to by many I know as the best discard spell printed, the massive hand disruption caused by this card can be near lethal against combo decks as well as aggro decks.

Duress:
I opted for Duress instead of thoughtseize because of the fact of the life loss being so cumulative. Duress does a similar job, possibly not as well, but it gets the job done well.

Innocent Blood:
More board control. When coupled with Bitterblossom can be devastating. A turn 4 innocent blood followed by gatekeeper can work wonders against a lot of decks.If I'm not going first, getting rid of whatever they played on first turn creature-wise is fantastic 8 times out of 10.

Bitterblossom:
This is the mainboards primary aggro. It also couples with Innocent blood very nicely.

Dizzy spell:
In a pinch, Dizzy spell can save me three life, but its main use is its transmute. It allows me to transmute into fifteen other cards in the deck.

Muddle the Mixture:
While not only being a decent counter, it is a fantastic transmuter for seventeen other cards in the deck.

Lim-Dul's Vault: Grants me speed, deck fixing, and is essentially a tutor combined with a set up for the next five turns. At UB? Definitely.

Sideboard:

Bitterblossom:
I find adding one more can help the effectiveness of the card allowing me the higher chance of drawing one in a matchup I need more aggro in.

Cabal therapy:
Synergy with Bitterblossom, as well as the abyssal persecutor makes this fantastic as well as being a great hand disruption card.

Echoing truth:
Echoing truth allows me to handle pesky cards that can play around cards like Vial, as well as bouncing tokens. Saved me against dredge several times by bouncing the tokens.

Pithing needle:
One of those cards that is so well discussed elsewhere.

Abyssal Persecutor:
This card gets so much flak, however in this deck he is perfect. Grants the deck a huge tempo advantage and is relatively easy to get rid of with Gatekeeper, Cabal therapy, Innocent blood, as well as the cards that transmute to these. There is rarely a problem getting rid of him once his job is done.

Matchups:

No-pro decks are a breeze as the sheer amount of board removal gets rid of progenitus fast. After he is gone the disruption usually can handle the rest.
70-30


Storm: With countertop and hand disruption, it really comes down to how explosive they are. I havent had much problem with storm decks so far.
75-25

Reanimator:
Again, sheer board removal and controlled hand disruption save us here. When they reanimate a fattie we simply shut it down.
70-30

Stoneblade:
This match has proven to be equal, a more disruptive sideboarding is needed and you should be fine
50-50.





All input is appreciated and questions will be answered to the best of my abilities.

Greenpoe
02-06-2012, 11:16 AM
You probably want to go -4 Nighthawk and +4 Liliana of the Veil. Liliana is guaranteed to kill at least 1 creature by maintaining priority, whereas Nighthawk can get StP'd/bolted/etc. Liliana helps the combo MU and can be devastating vs. any deck that wins with creatures when dropped on an empty board. Bob should probably be in the 75 as well.

Vastros
02-06-2012, 11:39 AM
Regarding Bob, He was originally a 4x, He simply wasnt as helpful as expected. With as much decksearch/deck fixing as there is I dont view him as needed. If you can prove me wrong I would be more than happy to agree with you. I simply cant see him being justified.

As far as Lili goes, she would be a wonderful drop, however in the initial mainboard I can see it being a problem with lack of damage dealing, as that leaves only the gatekeepers and the Bitterblossoms. If the blossoms are dealt with, and the gatekeepers destroyed, then there is no real way of winning. Other than that she would be fantastic.

from Cairo
02-06-2012, 02:05 PM
I don't think it's realistic to support the color requirements of Counterbalance and Gatekeeper of Malakir in the same deck, not to mention Hymn. Your list is left w/o basics which leaves it susceptible to Wasteland, not to mention that 20 land is too light to be supporting that curve to begin with.

I think the Transmute cards are more cute than practical. Counterbalance as an archetype wants to be leaving mana up to spin top and manipulate the top 3, tapping several mana at sorcery speed as a tutor effect is clunky, when you can be eot spinning Top, cracking a fetch trying again, etc.

If you wanted to explore UB CounterTop I would start with something like this for a shell...

4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3-4 Removal (GftT, Ghastly Demise, Dismember)
4-5 Additional Counters (Spell Snare, Mana Leak, Counterspell, Spell Pierce)

4 Sensei's Divining Top

3-4 Counterbalance

4-5 Planeswalkers (Lili 2.0, Jace 2.0)

3-4 Thoughtseize (could do Cabal Therapy if MDing Bitterblossom)

5-8 'Creatures' (Snapcaster Mage, Cliques/Spellstudder Sprites, Bitterblossom or Trinket Magi + Needle, EE, and Grafdigger's Cage)

22ish land
8-9 Fetches
4 USea
4+ Basics
some utility lands
Mutavaults (if running Faeries)
Riptide Lab (if running Snapcaster/Clique)
Academy Ruins (if running EE)

probably Sb...
Extirpate/Surgical
Nihil Spellbomb
Duress/Spell Pierce
Perish/Massacre or Damnation


I think you could do The Gate black based, with Blue as well, but the splash would have to be less ambitious, maybe for Snapcaster Mage and Brainstorm, rather than mana intensive engines with double off colored casting costs.

Maybe

4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3-4 Vampire Nighthawk
2-4 Snapcaster Mage

2-3 Bitterblossom
X Spellstutter Sprite

4 Brainstorm
2-3 Ghastly Demise
2-3 other removal

3-4 Liliana of the Veil

4 Hymn to Tourach
3-4 Cabal Therapy / Thoughtseize

2-3 Umezawa's Jitte

21ish land
8-9 Fetches
4 USea
X U/B sources
2-4 Basic Swamp

similar SB options

Vastros
02-06-2012, 04:13 PM
In what ways do you view that I could make the current deck better? Besides entirely switching it out to something else.

Richard Cheese
02-06-2012, 04:36 PM
I'm not a control expert, but I believe in a Counterbalance shell you want to diversify your casting costs somewhat. Your deck is basically all 1 or 2 cmc, so stopping a Natural Order, Jace, or Knight of the Reliquary is going to be a pain. I'll also second Cairo, you're just asking to get hurt by Wasteland if you need to consistently hit UU, BB, and BBB.

I'd start by dropping the Gatekeepers, Vaults, and Muddles, and max out Brainstorm, probably add more hard counters like FoW and Spell Snare. Liliana seems good too, since you really need to have some 3-drops to protect you from the inevitable Krosan Grips that everyone and their brother will bring in against you.

Greenpoe
02-06-2012, 06:46 PM
After testing the deck for a few hours, I started to realize that if you can control the early game (turns 1 to 3), you're pretty much good, so I'm sure the CB engine is necessary. As Cairo said, CB+Gatekeeper makes for a weak manabase. After some testing, this is what I came up with. It's pretty strong.
// Lands
3 [JGC] Wasteland
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [B] Underground Sea
2 [CST] Island (1)
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [NPH] Swamp (2)
4 [JGC] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
4 [OD] Innocent Blood
3 [JGC] Bitterblossom
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [BD] Brainstorm
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will

from Cairo
02-06-2012, 09:50 PM
In what ways do you view that I could make the current deck better? Besides entirely switching it out to something else.

The archetypes/card advantage engines just don't mesh very well.

Counterbalance wants to lay a Top and use permission while eot digging for a soft lock, then make land drops (I'd increase to 22-23) and lay a protected win condition. Hymn to Torach and the Transmute mechanic play very poorly with this game plan. Hymn is at it's best applied early and Transmuting is a 3 mana Sorcery tutor. The power of Counterbalance is sitting with it on the table and untapped mana to manipulate the top of your library - through Top or Brainstorm. Gatekeeper and Nighthawk are alright, but Snapcaster Mage or Vendilion Clique, having flash, complement the Counterbalance archetype much better.

I think going the route of the Gate w/ blue for some dig and Snapcaster, is probably more in line with the gameplan your presented deck is trying to accomplish. The Gate deck encourages Sorcery speed disruption. Snapcaster Mage could serve as an additional means to pull further ahead late game, which sort of strikes me as what the intended inclusion of Counterbalance was aiming to accomplish. The glaring change one has to make is changing Innocent Blood to a non-symetrical removal effect, because otherwise Snapcaster Mage is a Fleshbag Merauder rather than extra Gatekeepers. If running SCM your potential curve goes up with him at 3-4cc, so I'd be sure to run at least 21-22 land.

Either way I think Transmute is pretty weak (outside of Tolaria West in 39Lands) and I think that Lim Dul's Vault needs to be searching something pretty game winning to make the 2cc and card disadvantage worthwhile. These 8 slots are probably too clunky regardless of what direction you take the deck. This format just has better dig available to it - first maxing Brainstorm. If going the CB route, I think maxed Tops and a heavy fetch count should be sufficient. If going the Gate route you have Dark Confidant.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear, but I at least tried to elaborate on why these archetypes don't work well together.

Vastros
02-06-2012, 10:22 PM
Its not exactly that I dont want to hear it. I just wanted to know why and you explained it to me. Thank you very much Cairo =)

Greenpoe: I really like the build and will try it when my deck building team comes over later tonight.

Greenpoe
02-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Alright, after some more testing I've come to this list, so I'll give some brief explanations. Wastes are to knock up the land count a bit. Ponder is a fantastic cantrip to help manafix, find removal or win-cons, etc. 4 Liliana because I basically view her as a 3-mana Edict that often creates a softlock by herself. Only 3 Jace because Jace isn't exactly great in a bad position, unless you've got Bitterblossom out to protect him. The Ponders/Brainstorms help you find Jace anyway. I went up to 4 Daze because when Daze is good, it's epic, and when it's bad, you can either pitch it to Force or play two of them vs. one spell. The deck is a ton of fun though. Bitterblossom is just perfect in a Walker-heavy deck.
// Lands
3 [JGC] Wasteland
4 [JGC] Polluted Delta
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [NPH] Swamp
3 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
2 [CST] Island
3 [B] Underground Sea

// Creatures
3 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
4 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
4 [BD] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [NE] Daze
3 [JGC] Bitterblossom
3 [M10] Ponder
4 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [ON] Smother