Brainstorm And Force of Will

[Parax]

Ok so i was talking to a buddy today, and the scenario came up that if i had a force of will and a brainstorm in hand, do you pitch the BS to the Force.?

I think you do because its a sure shot blue card, since we know its already blue. He thinks you cast the brainstorm to go looking for a blue card.

Only time i would honestly debate it would be if i was playing mono-blue, and even then thats a maybe, because its not a sure thing. I would actually like more than a couple word reply, and would really like to hear a full reasoning.

[lordofthepit]

Ok so i was talking to a buddy today, and the scenario came up that if i had a force of will and a brainstorm in hand, do you pitch the BS to the Force.?

I think you do because its a sure shot blue card, since we know its already blue. He thinks you cast the brainstorm to go looking for a blue card.

Only time i would honestly debate it would be if i was playing mono-blue, and even then thats a maybe, because its not a sure thing. I would actually like more than a couple word reply, and would really like to hear a full reasoning.

If you have to counter the spell, you definitely pitch Brainstorm to Force of Will.

If you don't need to counter the spell with Force (i.e. you might find a Spell Snare or a Swords to Plowshares for the Goyf on the stack), then Brainstorming is reasonable. But that's only assuming you have something to Brainstorm, you have dead cards to put back on top, and a shuffle effect to send them away. You don't just Brainstorm for "a blue card to pitch to Force of Will".

[kiblast]

I would actually like more than a couple word reply, and would really like to hear a full reasoning.

Then provide a couple of words more regarding the situation, the board state, wether you are tapped out or not, the kind of deck you are playing, how many cards there are in your hand and if you have usueless cards to put on top...etc.

In a vacuum I'd say I'd pitch bs only if I lose the game to that spell, or If I need to counter a very risky threat to which I have very few answers (for example a Natural Order with only 1 Innocent Blood left in my library, or an Ad Nauseam @10 life) and that would easily win game if unanswered.

You either absolutely need to counter the spell. And therefore you need to pitch something even if it is an Ancestral Recall. Brainstorming before pitching to find something else to pitch is risky but acceptable if you have a high blue count(I'd say at least 20+ blue spells, but what if the only pitch you see is the JTMS you should have topdecked next turn? If you have 4+ mana, JTMS is strictly superior to Brainstorm.)
Or you don't need to counter it, therefore if you decide to waste Fow / Bs you are making the wrong play.

The most important question is whether to Fow or not the spell, not what to pitch in my opinion. If you have a high blue count and a decent number of worse (than brainstorm)spells left in library that you'd rather pitch to Fow instead of Brainstorm (for ex: Spell Snare)....then take the gamble and cast BS.

I hope my reasonment makes sense to you, and that I wrote it clearly.

[death]

FoW pitching BS = you're down a card

If you cast BS, then FoW pitching blue card = you're basically Hymning yourself. Aside from the risk that your BS whiffs on the top 3 cards.

[UnderwaterGuy]

FoW pitching BS = you're down a card

If you cast BS, then FoW pitching blue card = you're basically Hymning yourself. Aside from the risk that your BS whiffs on the top 3 cards.

Whether or not you cast BS has no effect on how many cards you lose in order to Force. Brainstorm replaces itself.

[Koby]

Aside from the risk that your BS whiffs on the top 3 cards.

That's the real issue; do you run enough blue cards to make Brainstorm into another blue card worth it to pitch to FoW?

[honestabe]

There are literally different scenarios that noone here will be able to give you a decent answer without more context

[Mr. Safety]

Step 1: Vendilion Clique his ass and rob him of potential answers to your Force.
Step 2: You cast Brainstorm finding Jace, Daze, and Brainstorm. You put 2 lands on top, the topmost one being a Misty Rainforest. Pitch the second Brainstorm to Force, then Daze their Force.
Step 3: Play Jace the next turn and own the game.
Step 4: Laugh maniacally, because you are a fucking boss.

Jesting aside, it has already been described. If you need to counter it, pitch the Brainstorm. If you don't absolutely need to counter it and you have potential of finding a more reasonable answer (like Swords to Plowshares or Spell Snare) then you Brainstorm for an answer and then use your fetches (if you can) to shuffle unneccessary cards away. In a vaccuum, that is.

Throw out a real-life example.

[Parax]

For the most part it was more hypothetical, but seeing as the only deck i have that runs both Force of Will and Brainstorm would be my reanimator.

And if i want to counter the spell, i should i think. I don't want to Brainstorm into another blue card. What if the only blue card is a Jin? Its removed from the game, and can't be reanimated. Does no real good.

The way i see it only things i would counter would be

A)Game winning spell
B)Counterspell
C)Removal

Everything else is allowable i would think. Even the off chance i want to counter a creature, i think it'd be smarter to bin the BS instead, because i'm not running removal at all.

I guess the Hypothetical question wasn't so much about brainstorming into other options of taking care of the threat, but more should you risk the sure thing for a chance of grabbing another blue card to bin.

[kiblast]

In my opinion Brainstorming before a Force still has its merit of adjusting your topdeck, and potentially pitching a spell qualitatively worse than Bs(which in late game can be Daze, for example). Of course you should always think of the density of blue cards in your library.

[Justin]

As was said above, the general rule is that you just pitch the BS to the FOW if you really need to counter the spell. The exception, of course, is if you know what cards are on top of your library (say from looking with a Top), and you are sure that you can find a better answer (which includes a one-for-one counter or a better card to pitch to FOW).

[Dark Ritual]

It depends on your hand, if brainstorm is the only card you have to pitch in hand and you have nothing else to pitch, I'd say pitch brainstorm if its a must counter spell for you. If you don't need to counter the spell I'd cast the brainstorm to see if there's a better card to pitch like daze is sometimes a reasonable card to pitch or if you see multiple jace's with brainstorm then jace is a good card to pitch. Overall it depends on the gamestate though and how many blue cards you have left in your library to find with brainstorm so as to weigh the percentages of you hitting another blue card with brainstorm.